ramifications if something happens with the huge for the united states and others in the region in a way that will matter for the average american and that's what i wanted to write on this book. >> host: thank you. i think we've had a very good conversation and i appreciate the chance to reverse a explores some of the issues in the book. >> guest: thank you earn much, scott. ..

>> the woman behind the curtain. it's magic. wiem going to put my water bottle there. i'm so excited to be here with you all today. we're coming up on a great and amazing anniversary, celebration -- very exciting. i have to thank the founder and president of the national first lady's library and historic site

and the wonderful staff members who help her here like lucinda and the woman bind the cur tap was michelle. thank you for bringing me here and all the work it takes to bring speakers. it's not an inconsiderable task. so every girl has their own understanding of billy gordon lowe, and the rest of the world has not heard of her. today, i want to talk a little bit about her life, the biography of her, concentrating on the big topics today, and then there's one side in there for girl scouts because i know when i speak to audiences about juliette low, i have to split the difference. here we go. here we go. hear me. we're not going. [laughter] there we go.

thanks, jermy. juliette gordon low founded the most important organization for girls and women in the history of the nation, and yet when i put this picture up, no one will not be able to identify her. i find that stunning and not good, frankly, as a woman's historian. she led a fascinated life woven with sadness and great joy. she was an optimist, encentric, courageous, and fun-loving, and a phenomenal visionary social reformer. let's learn about her from the very beginning. this is where she was born. savannah, georgia. i'm sure some of you have been to her home in savannah, georgia. this is a liter picture. that third floor was no there when she was born. she was born in 1860. that's her father, a confederate veteran -- [inaudible]

>> how am i going backwards? there, this was her father. [laughter] he was a confederate veteran and impressed upon his daughter the importance of duty and gave her that never say die attitude that comes from serving in the lost cause. her mother was from the founding family of chicago, and she taught her daughter the importance of giving back to a nation, a community that gave so much to her. in this couple, she saw a loving and devoted marriage at work. these two were dedicated to one another from the day they met until the day they died. she was also gained a clear understanding of the importance of religion to n, -- nellie and willie. her religious faith was of

supreme importance to her. now, juliette low is the child in the back, the tallest one. she was not the oldest daughter, not the youngest daughter, not a son. she was one of many children born to the gordons, and girl scouts know her as crazy daisy. we know a lot of stories told around the campfire about her rather change behavior. i'll tell you one. she was young, in savannah, strangely cold at night in savannah, and she was worried about the family cow so because she's a a kind-hearted girl, she went to the guest room upstairs and took the blanket off the bed, ran downstairs in the dark, wrapped the cow in the blanket and secured it and certain it would be find. she woke up and the cow trampled the blanket and the cow was fine. there's a lot of stories.

it has to do with how kind she is, but when she gets older here, she's 18, i noticed in researching the record, the crazy daisy stories begin to pave a way, and what happens, i believe, as she ages and matures, she comes to have her own sense of herself, and she doesn't need to have this kind of crazy per sewn that in the family -- personna aim. crazy daisy worked for her as a girl because she carved a niche for herself and her family. should could amuse, make a joke with a funny story. it helped the family in the hard times and gave her a secure position in the family, but as i said, when she got older, crazy daisy dropped away. now, when she is older, she meets these two women. juliette low had a good education for her time.

her mother was a fan of education for women. she went off to boarding school. she had boarding school experiences up and down the east coast. the woman on your left there is ab jby hunter, and on the right is mary clark. she was friends with them to the end. i pay attention to the friendships as a women historian because that's what we do, and i wanted to know how important friendships were to a woman who founded an organization based on making new friends and keeping the old. these relationships were important to her, sustains, in fact. this was a home juliette low knew well. it was abby's home in providence, rhode island, and the girls were here quite a bit. now, this is abby. abby loved sports.

if you read the book already, you know this is the one friend nix naminged the icicle. she didn't like being called the icicle, but she had that new england reserve. that's where that appalachian came from. now, what i discovered about abby apart from the friendship with juliette low is that abby had a sister names jenni who was profoundly deaf with scarlet fever at age too, and mrs. lippet said i will teach my daughter to speak. training was empathy then, and the standard procedure was to teach sign language, but mrs. lippitt said that's a wall between my daughter and all of those hearing people so i will teach her to speak. against all odds, mrs. lippitt taught jenni how to speak. she was main line, went to a normal school, and she had a

perfectly happy life. now, i wonder what it means to juliette gordon low to have a best friend, sister, conquer deafness in the language of the day; right? they knew one another, hung out together, and juliette had an example of jenny who conquered, overcome her deafness. what did this mean? maybe it was -- at the very least, juliette had an understanding of what profound deafness was. all right. this is hyde hall, and hyde hall is in new york. it's the home of her other friend, mary gayle carter clark. she was a kind gentle woman, but she came from a family with a very deep vain of depression, perhaps bipolar disorder, hard to know. but suicidal tendencies ran in the family. her father committed suicide.

her sister committed suicide. mary, herself, was suicidal. this was a difficult, but different kind of disability for the ere -- era. juliette low never abandoned mary. another testimony to the importance of friendship despite odds. well, this is juliette gordon low's younger sister, alice, in 1880, just a little bit after the time that mary's sister died. here is alice passed away, a terrible tragedy for the family, first break in the family circle, and daisy is in the difficult position of having to mother her mother because mrs. gordon has fallen apart. i can't imagine what it would be like to loose -- lose a child, and she was broken hearted. she had no time to care for the other children.

her eldest was abroad, and so daisy had to mother her father, care for the father, and keep the household together and her young man, which whom she falls in love when which her father says a man who learns to work is preferable to a husband to a man born rich. juliette fell in love with william, or as her father said, the idle englishman. you are beautiful, you are charming, and you can rest your sorrows in me. it was an important to understand the timing, to understand the relationship. i think she really loved him and as far as i know he truly loved her. well, they were married in 1886. all girl scouts know what happened on this day. this is the day as the wedding couple got in the carriage, a well-wisher threw rice, and rice lodged in juliette low's ear.

this was complicated by the fact that 23 months earlier, her same ear had been treated with akos tick substance called silver nitrate. the double hit of the rice lodged in the ear and became infected and the silver nitrate which caused extreme pain in the ear, together with a childhood full of ear infections made juliette low very hard of hearing. how hard of hearing? she was not profoundly deaf, but juliette low's hearing went up and down, better an worse depending on a various of things like noise, smog, the humidity, her physical and emotional health her friends said. she could hear sometimes, some things, and other days not at all. her hearing went from bad to worse. it was never good, but from bad to worse because her other ear

was compromised as well. here she is, juliette low, young married woman, about to enter her husband's world. her husband's world was one of what she referred to later as one of froth and bubbles, and this froth and bubbles world was full of people who were hunters, big game hunters, went fishing, raised horses. in the spring, they were in london for the season, and then they went shooting in scottland in the fall, went to the eng lirve country side -- english country side. these were elite friends. in england and included this man, birdie, the prince of wales, o notorious womanizing, a friend of low's. they bought a house in yorkshire, eng england. i have a friend who flew the

american flag there on the anniversary of girl scouting. that's what this is. the couple of the home began to entertain, but willie spent time on the horses. he loved horses. raced them, bought them, sold them. he loved cars. now, this building is where he kept the first automobile in a little tiny village, and if you look above the white door, he inscribed initials in the building when he had it built for the cars. well, all right, now there's a problem in the wedding because willie is spending more time away, doesn't let daisy go with them. he's put a barrier against her going it at least one racetrack, and so willie says i'm going away. i'll be gone. see you later. what does daisy low -- what does juliette low -- her make name was always daisy, so what should she do? she took up metal working.

suspect -- isn't that what every woman would do? [laughter] she learned how to work in metal. when i saw this railing around the top edge, i wondered if juliette low made this. i think there's a good possibility she might have. i spent time in the book figuring out how she could haved learned how to work in metal. she took up wood carving, of course. i have a hunch as to where she learned how to carve wood. she did not make this, but i think the woman with chop she spent time with carving probably made it. juliette low is trying to be faithful from the lessons about civic duty and responsibility and giving back although her husband forbade it. he wanted a trophy wife, and i don't want you trailing your skirts in the typhoid wards. what does she do?

well, well-versed in the new testament did the good deed in secret. she befriended a lepper. no one else spoke to him. she donated time in the poor house and worked with the poor there and work with the nursing association. she did some other work willie knew about with the local church and so forth. in 1898, she worked with her mother at a hospital helping veterans -- they were not verett raps yet, but men too sick to did fight from various tropical diseases. she worked with very ill soldiers. willie knew about this, but by that time, it didn't matter much because by this time enter anna baitman, the other woman. girl scouts, this is the first time you've seen a picture of anna. anna, here, was on the cover the

"country life" magazine, a magazine geared towards elite english. what did juliette low do when her husband fell in love with another woman? well, he did her what he told her not to do. she went off to work in settlement homes. now, you know the best nope settlement house, you know, i'm guessing is hoe house in chicago, jane adam's home, which hoped out the extremely poor. this is a later photograph of the settlement house in the slums of london. juliette low there worked with the candle well working girls club. i find this fascinating. it connects a lot of dots for me as a woman historian to know juliette before she connected with the girl scouts had experience working with poor girls in downtown lone -- london. well, here's mrs. bateman in a later picture. juliette low did something extraordinary for her time and

she filed for divorce. scandalous. if you were in juliette low's class, you should just get over it if your husband was up faithful to you, just accept it and move on. she said, no, my marriage means something to me, he was unfaithful, i'm filing for divorce. willie became ill with an illness. she called off the divorce because i can't divorce a man who is dying. then willie low got better. [laughter] picked up with anna again, and juliette low said to heck with that. i'm going to reinstitute divorce proceedings. before the divorce was finalized, willie low died. here she is in 1905. oh, no, this is a slide for you girl scouts. that is juliette low op your right and that is anny on the left. i have no comment. i wanted you to see it. first time the the wife and

mistress have been seen side by side. >> [inaudible] >> i know, i'm not saying it though. all right. 1905, gordon low, widowed, learned that her husband left all of his money to the mistress. she fought with her sisters-in-law to gain the money, which she did. she was never poor, but it was another heart breaking battle for her to fight. now what do you do when you're in your mid-40s and widowed? she could pursue art, but it was difficult to break into art as a woman then as it is now. she could travel, and she loved it. she did some of that. juliette low went places like india. she went to egypt. she bagged herself a tiger. her husband didn't let her hunt, but once he was dead, she shot a

tiger. she would have taken care of the elderly and young in her family. this is her younger sister, mabel and her children. such a beautiful photograph. i wanted you to see it. because her hearing was so bad, juliette low said i don't think i should take care of the ill for fear i will not hear them when they need me. that is something i shouldn't do. she could get married again. this handsome gentleman asked her to marry him. she had many, many male friends, many, many female friends. he was a member of the british military, and she decided not to marry him, although they remained friends for a long time. she went back to social work, and i don't know how much time she spent at campbell well, but kept her hand in there. she could spend time with her friends., which she did. this man was a dear friend of

hers. they had flying in common. he took up flying airplanes later in the life, and juliette low loved airplanes. well, in map is also a cousin to this man. this is robert powell or pole, and his wife and juliette op your right. now, he was a war hero. he was famous all over epg land and beyond, known as a military scout and tracker. he was so famous that juliette low was determined she was not going to like him because she had other friends. in the british military who she thought deserved much more praise and much more hop nor than they had gotten since he got it all. she had lunch with him in 1910, sat across the table from him, and was determined not to be

interested. this lasted until about the soup course. [laughter] when she found herself submitten -- smitten with him and his program. she was there with the travel, the outdoor experiences of scouting, and very much in tune with the desire to raise better men, grow better men through a program, responsible men, men prepared for any future, but the most important thing to juliette gordon low about the boyscouting program was that it brought fun to boys. the emphasis on fun is what she liked. she said i will take some of the salesgirls interested in scouting, and i will make a girl troupe. when guys gathered inup forms at scouting, girls were there at the edges.

this was shocking at the time. girls made their own uniforms. girl in uniform at boys' gathering. shocking. he said, okay, i think there are parts of the program that will be wonderful for girls, but i'm not going to oversee the girls. he gave them to his sister. juliette low was friends. with agnus, and this is how the day communicated itself. they had quite a friendship. juliette low had a home in scottland determined to start with the poor rural girls there. she taught herself how to spin and how to weave to teen -- teach the girls. why? these poor girls did not have a rosy economic future. she said i will teach you how to make handy crafts that i will then take to london and sell so that you will have more money, and then you'll have a business

established. she taught them how to raise chickens with better eggs to be sold to the hunting lodges in that area. she immediately saw a very concrete way to benefit girls through girl scouting. quite above and beyond all the other aspects of scouting that she loved. she took the girl guide idea to her home in london finding one for urban poor girls and one for urban wealthier girls. she got experience in three girl guide troops. urban, rural, poor, and wealthy. she just didn't spring out of nowhere in savannah starting troops. we all know the quote. in 1912, she said, i have something for the girls of savannah, all america, and all the world, and we're going to start it tonight. this is what she said to her coz

p when she was determined to bring girl scouting to the united states in 1912. now, this was her organization from the very beginning. it was a one woman show at the start. this is a -- no -- this -- there we go. i want to make sure you're awake. making you dizzy out there. this is from a letter of hers. what is this, girl scouts? >> [inaudible] >> right. she imagined what it should look like first in the letter. her organization begins with her friends., juliette low uses her money to start the organization, hand picked the staff, wrote the manual, designed the badges and pins like this and patented it. she was sensible enough to go and erect legal boundaries around the organization. she did this because she filed for divorce so she was cognizant

of attorneys and how they worked. she loved the idea of camping. this is an early shot of camping. getting girls out into the fresh air was important for them, but camping taught girls self-sufficiency including girls stuck in dresses and boots and high heels all day. this got them out and they had to think about how much water and food could they bring and how to pitch the tent. this is all new to girls at the time. sports was important to her as well. this was an early basketball troupe. you see their shocking bloomers. [laughter] juliette low loved sports playing all manner of sports. she erected a curtain across the court so they would not be -- their sense thes were not shocked seeing girls in bloomers. curtains kept people out, but peaked interest. people wanted to see what was going on. she got a good number of more girls from the curtain.

she was always involved with the girls. she's milking a cow here with the girl scouts, but she also set up a national board of directors. he family was involved. she got her mother on the first board of directors. she got her first large donation from her broken. pressed one brother to be an attorney, another an accountant for the organization. created a washington headquarters, moved to washington dc in 1913 with just a couple hundred girls. she needed a national headquarters with just a couple hundred girls. i love that. she oversaw publicity as well. she's also the one who made the first initiative to the united states first ladies. this is lou henry hoover, of course, but she copied the boy scouts. the boy scouts had a national honorary president. she loved the idea. she campaigned tirelessly for

troops, leaders, girl, trainings, more camps. this was a -- she was overseeing every part of the organization. she cared about every detail, involved in every aspect. it began because of juliette, grew because of her, and family member, and friends, always involved. world war i begins in europe, she is a foot in both countries. she observes how the girl scouts, girl guides in england, participated in the war effort. juliette low's vision was to see that american girls wanted to be taken seriously, wanted also to participate in the important national crisis. she let them march in preparedness parade. in the beginning of the war years, there were 4,000 girl

scouts. by the end of the first world war, there were 41,000 girl scouts. it grew tremendously because she understood girls wanted to be taken seriously, be useful to this, and be involved. girl scouts in the united states sold $10 million worth of liberty bonds. that's what they are doing here. they collected scrap metal to contribute to the war effort. new troops sprang into being. they rolled bandages, learned first aid, wartime health care. the domestic focus of girl scouting continued. juliette low from the beginning said girl scouting needs to place an equal emphasis on domestic training for girls who will be wives and mother and career training for those who need another path. she, herself, understood from her own experience you may plan and prepare to be a wife and a mother, doesn't always work out. domestic fields were important,

and girls, during world war i learned how to feed their families, care for the home, how to take care of the young and elderly, and as they did so, they freed up their mothers for war work. they learned signaling, sanitation, morse code. they planted victory gardens and learned how to can and preserve fruits and vegetables to free food up for the soldiers. they knitted for soldiers, made scrapbooks for them, and later, they worked with veterans. girl scouting was tremendously popular in world war i, both with girls, but with the large public because america saw girls contribute, and every time girl scouts did something important and good, it was in uniform. very, very visible role. now, the war ends. 1920, juliette low makes one of the hardest decisions she has to make, and that is she steps down

from her own organization. i submit to you, it is a really wise leader who knows when his time is to step away. she handed the reigns to god daughter. this is mary's daughter. she spent time working on international girl guiding and girl scouting. juliette low understood how horrible world world war i had . 50 million people dead because of this war, friendships shattered, families broken, and she said one way to ensure we never have a war this devastating again is to help girls in all countries know about each other so international friendships through girl guiding and scouting would be a way to ensure war never happened again. if you were in venezuela and know about the life of a girl in canada, and if you're in canada and know about a girl in help --

hungary, how can we go to war? it's an isolationist era. america was ready to walk away from europe in the war. not juliette. she says we have to be involved. it's the only way to avoid war. well, in 1923, she developed breast cancer. i discovered some interesting cures that juliette low had during her life. juliette low never met anything new she didn't like. she loved new technology, any new thing she loved including the radium cure which she had. they put you in a room the size of a shower and bathed you in radium. i'm not saying that the radium caused the breast cancer, but she had several radium cures in her life. in 1927, juliette gordon low died. she did not slow from the breast cancer at all, but continued to travel to the end spreading the

importance of friendship, education, preparedness, self-sufficiency, fun, above all, fun for the girls. it was in georgia that she died. the last thing she did was write a letter to her friend, mary. she was one of the really lucky people, her brother said, because she died having realized her dream. juliette low saw her organization, the girl scouts of the united states of america, come to fruition, spread across the nation, spread around the world. she saw material changes in the lives of girls and women as a result of the program she began kind of on her own, and like every good ceo, she left her organization in tip-top shape when she died. they had a recognizable brand. they had a large number of trained leaders, a splendid training course for the leaders. there was a loyal board of directors. it was financially sound. she was a very content women at

the end of her death. she knew she was going to die. she knew she was going to die, and her life work was in front of her. she had been celebrated by her home state of georgia, celebrated by girl scouts around the world for her accomplishments. now, what's her legacy? you are. all of you who are wearing green or brown. all of you are her legacy. 50 million american women and girls have been girl scouts in the hundred years since girl scouting began. her legacy is every single one of you. her legacy is laura bush. hillary clinton, ann landers, e elizabeth dole, we could go op for days. shirley temple. my grandmother, my mother, me. we're all her legacy, all of us. here we are, looking back 100 years, which is quite fitting,

not a lot of organizations make it to 100 years, few businesses make it to 100 years. 100 years is truly worthy of celebration. we're looking back at this remarkable woman whose life, choices, and sorrows went into this making. what i find amazing is if we could bring her out, she said, the past? let's look at the future, the girls among us, the future of girl scouting and where the organization is going and what more we can do to help the world. thank you very much for your time. [applause] thank you. [applause] the best part of every program is a question. let's see your questions.

there we go. [laughter] >> first i want -- >> [inaudible] >> first i want to thank you for doing this. i was impressed when you showed the picture. it struck home that girl scouts know who she is, and other people don't. thank you very much, and where did you get all the pictures. they are wonderful. >> the pictures of juliette low are scattered. the library of congress has many. some are in the national historic preservation center, the girl scout archives in new york city, and fran and katherine at the birthplace national historic site in savannah have been more generous than i had a right to expect with photographs. there's some in the georgia historical society.

the photos also were taken by a friend, clyde. >> thank you, also, it's so touching for me to hear you speak and to -- i'm a second generation girl scouts, and my mother was my leader. i'm my daughter's leer. it's wonderful. my question is this week we celebrated national women -- >> international women's day. >> international women's day, and i just wonder how we can spread that around? we have days for things, entire month devoted to african-american culture, one day for women, and most day didn't know that day was here. as girl scouts and as a women's historians, do you have suggestions for us to make that day more noticeable to people? >> well, march is women's history p month. we have the whole month. that began in 1981. it objective as women historians

tell you was to write women back into history. we have done this. we have faithfully done this. your girls are learning more about women than their grandmothers ever did, that's for sure. we do know about people like, you know, so jowrner truth, jane adams, but what we don't know is juliette low. she created thee most important organization for girls and women in the history of the country. he's not in the history books or the social study textbooks or anywhere. what can we do about that? i wrote a book. you can read the book, educate your girls about juliette low. there's two splendid books for younger girls, and educating girls telling the story to

others is part of it. girls, when you have projects at school, do it on juliette gordon low. teach your classmates not at meetings about juliette, and the rest of us, you know, it's just a matter of spreading the word. here's a shameless plug. go to amazon and these three books, you can write about them, write why it's important. people buy books. i don't know how to educate because we don't have a, you know, future length film on juliette low. although, that's a great idea. [laughter] spread the word in any way we can. i hope what happens is next time history books are published, her name will be there. >> see this brownie right here? she had a question. remember the question? other questions?

there's one in the back, michelle. >> thank you for speaking with us today. appreciate the history and sharing your knowledge. we talked a lot about the men that may have infliewpsed juliette. are there any women that were really significant to her and really significant to kind of inspiring her and inspiring her mission? >> well, here's one connected question to the answer. here's an answer that connects to the question when the history month and juliette low in the textbooks. juliette low was part of the larger progressive era reform movement; right? progressivism 1900 to the beginning of world war i tried to cure problems caused by the last century's industrialization, urbanization, and immigration. juliette low was part of this. there was a big child welfare

movement, for example. there was a playground movement, a fresh air movement, settlement house movement. reformers were involved in trying to make the world better. now, juliette low was of the movement -- she was in the movement i would suppose, but not of it. that's the way i want to say it. she was not familiar with these women or their work as far as i can tell. she knew jane adams, but because of a family friend. i think this is one of the reasons she's not in the textbook. her life doesn't intersect with the women in the way other -- they tended to know one another. who was her influence? her mother. her mother was her big influence and a stanch supporter. i think they had a generally warm relationship throughout most of the lives, although it could be tense. she had a good role model in her mom as well. she was founder of the colonial chapter and red cross in georgia, an author, did many things. that was her biggest influence,

and then she was friends with baden-powell and agnus. she knew those women. indoor scouting is where she found friends, dear, dear friends in the chief lieutenants. uh-huh? nobody wants to ask about the deafness -- >> that's what i wanted to -- >> okay. >> how did her deafness work with her not being able to hear certain things she didn't want to hear and continuing on her vision? >> right. this is a story girl scouts know well. juliette low was unstoppable, completely on optimistic, but ao she could just not take no for

an answer. the way she did it, and many women say this, juliette low would stop you and say, oh, good to see you, you're just who i had in mind to take over this troop, tell you about the troop, won't be too much work, don't worry, but i'm certain you're the perfect person for the job. the woman said i'm sorry i can't do that, mrs. low, i have all of these other obligations. she would then turn her deaf ear to you, and say, oh, splendid, it's settled. i said you'd be there tuesday. don't forget to give the girls tea. [laughter] she did this over and over again. what i discovered though because she was not completely deaf is i don't know how deaf she was when she turnedded that testify ear to you, but it was certainly a very good way to spread the girl scouting i would say. it was a good way to get volunteers. there are letters in savannah from women who said i hope i was not going to walk out of church with juliette low because i

knew. [laughter] now she remember her question. >> how did get girl scouts get spread all around the world. >> that's a great question. girl scouts got spread around the world through many ways. one was women who were girl scouts themselves or troop leaders who then traveled and went to other countries, sometimes with the military or sometimes with peace organizations, sometimes with health organizations. it got spread just through letters. you know, if you liked being a brownny, wow would write a letter to your friend in england or china, and then it might spread that way. it was also a very conscious effort on the part of the guide and girl scout leaders to spread girl scouts and guiding because juliette low really believed as did the leadership in england that girl guiding and girl

scouting could make every girl's life better, every girl, every ethnicity, every religion, every class, every background, lives could be improved by girl scouting. in that way, it was intentional and made. they trieded very hard to make it happen. great question. >> did she get involved at all in suffrage for women? the age, you know, the year is -- >> right. was juliette -- >> i believe it was 1923 when they -- >> was juliette low involved in suffrage, and the answer is no, she was not. in the papers it's clear she was herself in favor of women's suffrage, but one of the most critical parts of girl scouting was that it should be run locally. juliette gordon low was the father of a states right democrat, local control very important. she did not want to impose from

above a party line op girl scouting for fear that women in mississippi might not be in favor of mississippi, but women in new york might be. she didn't want to alienate because she wanted to focus on the girls. she didn't want a political agenda from the top. she was also, by 1920 when women were given the vote, she had just stepped down from the leadership of the organization, and so it was not something she wanted to focus op. she was too busy growing girl scouting. however, there's wonderful photographs, of girls minding babies while the mothers are voting. it was not her issue. >> how many girl scouts were in the first girl scout troupe? >> that's a great question too. the answer is we don't really know. the first girl scout troupe was

probably started in a savannah orphanage among orphan, not among elite girls. we don't know because juliette gordon low, you know, she was really a remarkable woman. she was. she had many, many strengths. i will say that bookkeeping, not her forte. [laughter] the register of girl scouts in savannah, there's no logic in it whatsoever. it's difficult to track which girls, which leaders, which order, when troops came into being so we don't really know how many girls. we don't really know where the first troop was. there's a lot of things we don't really know. how's that for a non-answer? pretty good, huh? yeah. michelle, there in the far back. >> that will be the last question. >> were the first troops

interracial? seg segregated? when did they become interracial or cultural mix and reliers mix and -- religious mix and stuff like that? >> right. the first girl scout troop in savannah, georgia, in the spring of 1912, as far as we can tell were definitely mixed in terms of religious backgrounds. now, see, maybe a better way to think about this is that juliette low, as i just said, was interested in girl scouting benefiting all girls so she could have, as the founder, said we're beginning to have girl scouting only for this type of girl, not this type of girl. she never did that. the earliest troops had catholics, jewish girls, middle class girls, elite girls, all ethnic backgrounds. some of the girls were in troops

that we call today mixed; right? thrown together, but juliette gordon said if you want a troop that's all catholic girls, you can do that. if you want a troop that's all jewish girls or all -- you can do that. she was not nearly concerned about the exact configuration of the troop as concerned that girl scouting reach all girls. now, i know from oral interviews that the first -- the very earliest girl scout troops included an african-american girl, segregated. it was 1912 in the deep south. we're not looking at integrated troops then, and the question about official troops of african-american girls doesn't come up until many years later, and at that point in time, again, juliette low could have said we are going to have no official african-american troops. she did not say that. she said we will not have an

official policy on it. we'll let the women in new jersey decide what they want to do. we'll let the women this ohio decide what to do. we'll let the women in georgia decide what she wants to do. i give her full marks for not separating girls out of any sort. her mother told her to do so. her mother said, juliette, you cannot have african-american girl scouts. you can't do it. you kill the movement before it begins. she said, mother, absolutely not, i'm not doing it that way. everybody can come in. >> a quick one. >> very grateful to you for coming here and everybody here to have this wonderful opportunity. thank you to the first ladies' library for having all of u.s. -aid. >> thank you very much. [applause],

>> in terms of female political representation, we're behindaq a iraq and north korea. americas like to cop grat late themselves all the time when we're number one op all of these things. we're just not.e ju you know, we're not doing well

on infant mortality or very well on maternal mortality. mat obviously, we talked so much about things like obesity and good health, but in terms of women leading, we really are nog doing anywhere near as well as we should be doing, and we shouldn't be doing it notcaus because it's -- that was our early argument. we should have women in high places because that's a fairness principle. well, i believe in the fairness principle,ing but i believe inpg pragmatism. if everything worked in american if all firms were chugging along really well and hospitals wererl running like clock work and congress was really doing a bang up job, i would say, well, you, things are pretty good. we need women in leadership positions because nobody is leading as well as they should be, and if we're ignoring a big chunk of the population, maybe

that accounts why the leadership is not as good as it ought to be. >> watch the entire interview with ana tonight at 8 eastern here on c-span2. >> when we talk about the founding fathers, what's the era we're talking about?ab what areou the events we're talking about? >> guest: we're talking about the american revolution and ther writing of the constitution. those are the two key events, and everybody who played a major role in those events can claim to be a founding father. now, obviously, the older onessl had careers before the americana revolution. the younger ones had career that went op years after the signing of the constitution, but that'sr what we're talking about. >> host: who were the older ones?r who wereon the younger ones? >> guest: benjamin franklin born in 1706. he's the oldest. he dies in 1790.

he signs both the declaration of independence and the constitution. the last is james mad madison bn in 1751 and dies in 1836, 85 years old. he saw the fight over missouri f being admitted to the union. he sees the nullification crisis. he's the last one.as well, aaron byrd dies after he does, but that's the other side. the dark side. >> host: in 2006, you wrote "what would the founders do: wwfd," and in that book, you write the founders invite our t questions now because they invited discussion when they lived. they were arguing, expansive no-it-alls hanging ideas out to dry in public speeches and in journalism. >> guest: well, that's right.

they set up a republic, and they were very proud of doing that, and this is unique, virtuallyqu unique in the world. there were, you know, there were republics, although going down the tubes at the same time. this is a unique form of government being created, ando compared to all of itsmpar competitors, monarchies, and whatnot, it is open. it is c based on popular rule, and, yes, of course, the f franchises restrict it in a lot of ways, but still, there's a franchise. voters have to be appealed to.he it has to be brought along. it has to be instructed. they do this constantly, and a lot of them are journalist. they write for the newspapers. some of them are professional journalists. al exander hamilton founded a

newspaper that's still going on. that's "the new york post," and ben ming franklin, a great publisher, sam adams was a publisher. it's hard to think of founders who didn't write journalism. george washington didn't, but, d you know, that is very rare. even someone like james madison who didn't particularly like it and wasn't great at it, he screwed himself up and wrote 29 federalist papers which were op-ed pieces in newspapers.ap these guys, these men know thatn they have to put themselveses out there for the american public which is their constituency. >> host: know-it-alls? >> guest: well, they were well-educated. look, it's a little country. the colleges we have -- we have a handful of colleges.

they are tiny.f you know, harvard or kings, college which becomes columbia or yale or princeton.to they've got a few dozen students unlike the thousands that they haveus today, but, you know, mot of these men were college t graduates. those who weren't made sure ther read all of their lives. they -- they felt that they had to be up on both the news of the day and the political theory ofi the day. they all near their information. if you listen to the debates, you would have thought the name was the celebrated. they also knew their and -- ancient history, the history oft

the classical world, the history of rome, of greece. they didn't always admire whatea they read. hamilton said the city of the greek city states is disgustings because they all, you know, they go through cycles of tyranny, chaos, and whatnot.os that's what he hopes america can avoid, but that's a negative example. you have to know the negativeive examples as well. >> host: you also say, and tell me if i'm paraphrasing this wrong, that our founding fathers were well less traveled and perhaps less sophisticated than high school seniors today orgh s veterans from iraq and afghanistan? >> guest: well, sure. it's harder to get around the world, and crossing the atlantic ocean, you know, takes 20 days if you're lucky. it can take 80 days if you fall among icebergs and storms. john ad 78s crosses the --jo

adams crosses the ocean and the ship is struck by lightning, and everybody has to pump until it lands in europe, and all the passengers take turns to pump because the ship is filling wite water.hi you know, so it is hard -- it is hard to get around. it's hard to get around the united states. i mean to go from new york cityk to albany, new york, if you took a horse, that would take yout w three days, you know, on your own horse or coach. o if you took a boat up theook hudson, that would take three days if the wind was right. if the wind was bad, that coulde take you a couple ten days to gy from new york city to albany. now on a train it's a few hours. that come from not being able to get