early 30s, but wound up, as i say in the 1970s, in norton's hands through the wonderful energy of my colleague, robert wile. we now we vived the print, published collins' book, "as texas goes," two first books on the revived imprint. >> you're watching booktv on c-span2 in new york city at book expo america. talking with the chairman and president of the norton company. ..

to booktv, diane brady recalls the efforts of reverend john brooks who traveled the east coast recruiting african-american students to the college of holy cross. with the hope of realizing

martin luther king, jr.'s goal of an integrated society following his death in 1968. reverend brooks the future president of the college introduced several students to holy cross idea which included future supreme court justice justice thomas and edward jones. it's about 50 minutes. >> good afternoon. i would like to welcome everybody and start the program if we could. good afternoon and welcome. it's certainly a wonderful turnout and we are very very happy to have everybody this afternoon. on behalf of the college as well as the holy cross of austin i would like to welcome you to the special monthly lunch. i'm greg cahill class of 1981. thank you all for being here as

we celebrate the publication of "fraternity" with author diane brady. an exceptional and accomplished journalist, diane has done all of us a great gift telling the story of father brooks as well as an extraordinary group of lock students and how their time together at holy cross during the late 1960's has helped shape their lives and change the course of history. as one reviewer commented, fraternity brings to our attention for the first time an unsung hero of the civil rights movement. another called the book incredibly inspiring, noting that diane captured the story not just a group of amazing black men and their mentor but of an era. a senior editor at bloomberg "businessweek," diane first wrote about her time at holy cross history in the 2007 article for "businessweek" and

has worked since then to expand the story into a book. we are delighted she is here with us today to share her experiences researching, interviewing and writing. we are equally delighted to welcome annie jenkins class of 1962 who is right over here to my right and who is nationally one of the prominent men featured in the book. i have to also kid eddie of course. he played football for the patriots and the giants. [laughter] and i don't think he has a super bowl ring on. i saw he had it on in new york last night. [laughter] he also you know, we were kidding him as to who he might be rooting for this weekend and he remarked that he was cut by the giants. shortly after he was designated

the team's player rep, so i think he learned leadership skills at holy cross as we all know and carried them right on into the nfl. now it's my pleasure to welcome diane brady before opening the floor to questions. welcome, diane. [applause] >> thank you everybody and thank you so much for coming to this. i want to see, where is mr. cahill senior? oh, who purchased by the way 250 books and distributed them to the entire class of 1949, a compatriot of father brooks so thank you very much for that. [applause] and i think eddie got tired of showing off his super bowl ring last night and is officially with the patriots. i don't think we actually establish that, so i am a very

timid giants fan in the smit so i will quickly move on to the book itself. i thought i would just talk a little bit briefly about why this story intrigued me so much, a little bit about the reporting process and bring it forward to today because i think that is what intrigues me and then just open the floor to questions. i will admit first of all i am sadly not a holy cross grad which is somebody just naturally said i must be an alumnus of the school to know the story. the way i came across a story with stan grayson, one of the men in the book. we were just having a lunch and it was the same day that ted wells was the front-page story in "the new york times" representing scooter libby of the times of going way back and he started to talk about his classmates, the other black classmates started to talk about father brooks and i was intrigued. i was partly intrigued because

clarence thomas was one of those classmates and i had not read much about the interaction between justice thomas and father brooks. so that just got me intrigued. i'm a business journalist. it was not a classic story but i am on a centrist in leadership and i'm always interested in mentoring. and it took quite a while to get justice thomas to speak with me i think in part because he didn't necessarily trust the agenda that i had, which was they would like in fact to talk about 1968, 69, 70 those years and what amazed me was when i did go in to see him, the depth of passion that he had for holy cross. the feelings and emotions he had about father brooks. i'm not sure who was at his presentation last week when he got his honorary degree but that came up again. when you hear what he feels about holy cross versus what he

said about his experiences at yale their subfor pound difference in one of the big differences was his classmates and it was the way he felt treated at the college and certainly the way he felt treated by father brooks. so i basically just set out to do an article. i decided that it was in fact grounds for a book and i have to say this being my first book project i went on all sorts of directions that ultimately didn't work. one of which was lots of history at the jesuit and the publisher said no, enough of that. a lot of the history which took me a while to pronounce like everybody else is not from the area, not worchester, worchester and ultimately came down to the story of these five men and father brooks. one thing up and was unfortunately i also a lot of the people i talk to i had to diminish their roles in the book. i had to take names out because

to again my editor said you know what, i'm getting confused keeping track of all these people. focus on these men, focus on the fraternity they formed and use that as sort of a microcosm for what they experience at holy cross and what was being experienced you know across the country at that time. i think that there were a couple of things that i try to be careful not to do. one was heighten the drama too much in the interest of dialogue that i think the main thing that was important to me that holy cross was both special and unique that it was a microcosm of what was happening in the country at that time. i am not american. i actually grew up in scotland. i am half catholic but brady is a handy name to have when you are reporting at holy cross and i was always intrigued by this period. i was born in the late 60's and never really fully understood

kind of the emotions of the time as the book opens right after dark or martin luther king had been killed and also father brooks intrigued me as somebody who was a pioneer who went out there and basically circumvented the admissions process. it was very controversial as you know those of you have read the book and if you know him, he was a very strong-willed man and basically went out in a car with jim gallagher, drove to the school, personally interviewed a lot of these men, not the men who came in through other means such as eddie who came in through an athletic scholarship, and they think -- can everybody still hear me. probably better. so you now, then sat in a coffee shop one night and decided who

was going to get and, the two of them and then he presented the bill to father sword who was the president at the time. it was $80,000 for which a college that had a million dollars in endowment at the time was quite a cost to bear. but what he was looking for, i asked him, how do you decide? anybody who is apparent in the room knows that intelligence is not necessarily something that is a hallmark for success and it doesn't necessarily lead to success and when you talk to father brooks he was looking for leadership qualities. he was looking for drive. he was looking for people who had a work ethic. people who were hoping to reach beyond their graspgrasp, black black and white and issue may or may not know he was also fighting of the time to get women into college. sadly for the class of 72 i think they did not arrive until the fall of that year and that was after father brooks became president and managed to shake up the trusty border little bit and get some people on their

that did finally pass the resolution to let women into the college. so i think that when i look at this story, and i will take your questions, i think what really struck me when i look at it today is first of all the network. the network of these men -- who is called "fraternity" because this is not about one man, a priest, a theology professor and later at dean and later president who would now to find a group of men. these were men who are highly motivated, highly accomplished and were being given an opportunity they probably would not have had two or three years earlier. there were african-american students at holy cross but there tended to be one or two a year and in some cases one. as a art martin would say one would be thrown athletic seller ship and one the come in through the catholic scholarship and i was pretty much it. this was the first major group that came, 20 men.

clarence thomas transferred after dropping out of the seminary and so it was the first time they had critical numbers on campus. and what i think happened was father brooks and the college never veered on academic standards. all of them had to work as hard, harder in many cases and i think ted wells and clarence thomas tended to close down the library at night according to everybody i talked to. but, i think where he did make concessions was socially. he understood how difficult it was. he gave them the fan and the station wagon for them to get off campus as often as they could. he paid for them to have a bsu. he allow them to live together on the black corridor which was very controversial. i know we had one of the editors of the crusaders at the time and i remember reading a lot of the articles that were basically you knows students were very upset

about this almost resegregation they called it. but it was difficult any make concessions and when i talk to the men, it was the idea that the very highest levels of the college they understood people cared about their success. they understood that people had faith in them and they understood that my father brooks there was always an open door. he had that philosophy i think for the 2000 students who were there are. many people here feel very close to father brooks and he was with us last night and he was certainly, and i think when i talked to father brooks today, he just wanted leaders and he felt the college was missing out on being the best institution in the country by not reaching out in getting leaders from all parts of society, women, blacks, whites, asians. i know holy cross is a great university. certainly there have been a strong than it josh generation

of women and many other women who are pioneers there. when i look at today i think one thing that is interesting as there has been great success, great faith in terms of what has happened with african-americans. ted wells i know one on two harbert. american express, ken frazier, a lot of highly accomplished men from that generation. but there's also a lot of disappointment at what has happened and what has happened with education and the erosion of opportunity. frankly i think what also happened in terms of the decisions, some of which have been made by justice thomas in terms of opportunities, affirmative action and such and the sense that the next wave for this generation is going to be financial.

it's going to be encouraging entrepreneurship. is going to be basically giving people the tools to start their own businesses and to inspire the same -- inspire the same generation of leaders that came out there. i think in closing before taking questions one thing i want to say is another thanks to the holy cross community because one thing that this reporting process has really reinforced in me is the strong fraternity and the power that the school has had at one of the highest levels of giving which is amazing especially for people -- we just don't give. it's like the government will do this but holy cross, when i look at the networks that have been formed in the friendships and the power of the cross as they call it in the way that people support each other and love each other across the generations i think it's very inspiring and it's also to me a testament of

how leadership really happens in this country and happens everywhere else. i think the support in the love that people have shown for father brooks or the process, that they have shown for these men as an appreciation for how difficult it was to be pioneers on that campus. i hope it's a story that we will continue to to come back to again and again. as a reporter, i want every story from now want to be based on the holy cross campus. so thank you very much. thank you again for supporting the book. i don't think it does justice to the period of father brooks but i hope it's at least a start another's will come forward and continue to tell the story so thanks again. [applause] and i guess i will now take questions. and you know eddie is a very busy -- is the man. if you have questions for eddie before he leaves, he can, but

feel free to also ask questions of him because i know it is their story, not mine. does anybody have any questions they would like to ask lex. >> i did want to just mention c-span is here today. it will be shown at a future date so we will pass the microphone around is what i'm trying to say if everybody would speak into the microphone. >> give your names, look at the camera. >> that would be great and i can't help but remark about "fraternity". >> the spirit of fraternity. >> we do feel like we are fraternity in many ways. eddie? >> first of all i would like to thank diane for chronicling this very special experience for us, the people who lived through it but before it began to tell you

about my assessment of last night and where we are at would like to recognize a pioneer who is one of those only african-americans that was at holy cross for an extended period. bob cretul can you please stand up? an amazing track star, great scholar and continues to do great immunity service working with me at urban edge. bought this great work in the area of affordable housing. [applause] last night we all got together about 1:30 and we finished everything. ted loves to be close to his job which is fifth avenue above st. patrick's cathedral. we were looking down at st. patrick's cathedral and he said 40 years later, what did we do that was so special that not only people remember us but put

out on the cover of the book. we thought about it and we said, i know i gave you that quote last night. >> and it was a good quote. >> was within a book for someone to calm. but that's alright. the holy cross community would never do anything like that. in the book i had a quote. he said if you look at the measure of a person not at the times in comfort and convenience but you look at them when they stand in a moment of crisis. that was our moment of crisis. it was before the civil rights movement and if you remember yourself those times, do you remember? many of of the watch you watch those reports on television and you figured that you know the reports were enough and some of you after the riots read the

current commission report where you talked about societies and one black and one white and one rich and one poor and they were becoming further apart. some of you even put your toe in and maybe did a little something. but for those of you who actually took the plunge and lost that sense of security, you actually jumped in the river and when we walked out, we jumped in the river and he did not know where we were going to end up. those turbulent currents through racism and cynicism pulling at us for the community would just say just let them leave. we don't need them anymore but we continue to swim and more importantly father brooks continued to swim. he said it's not important that they jumped out. it's important that we get them to the other side and because we got to the other side the river that was formed was a river about hearts and that is the part that i challenge each and every one of you, that there are

additional rivers that you must plunge into. diane talked about the economic crisis and i would add to that the incredible number of african-americans that are in jail today, more in jail than in college and we have an extraordinary problem in america we have to face so there are more rivers. don't just look at us as some memorial, some old guys that did something great 40 years ago. that was our river. this is your river and now is the chance to jump in. thank you very much. [applause] >> i can't top that. the other thing that i think was interesting which came up last night and has come up with clarence thomas as well is, what has happened to the catholic school network. the high school network in the elementary school network especially in the city. people say the charter schools have come in to perhaps fill the void there, but i think there is a real sense of loss.

certainly i think these men feel it and a lot of people feel that this was a real steppingstone for a lot of urban families to get their kids the type of education and the type of discipline and the type of values that would help to make them leaders in society and i think there's a certain wistfulness that network is not as strong as that was perhaps when they were students and a feeling of maybe was there some way to make it stronger again? that has certainly come up as well. does anybody have any questions? go ahead. i guess we have to wait for the microphone. is that right? >> just raise your hand high. >> hi. i was a student -- i have not read the book yet, yet. but a couple of questions. is there anything in the book about the impact of what was going on in the --

and i say that because there was a positive influence on me. i remember playing cards in the cafeteria with clarence. i remember working on the breakfast program with eddie jones and i remember joe wilson and the friendships that you develop and how it impacted later on. i would like to also mention that what father brooks did was not just for the black students. i was from a low income family import and andy did the same for me and that changed my life. after holy cross i worked six years in africa. i would like to say that the culmination of those experiences gave me that direction. >> yeah and i think that came up as a theme. >> i have another comment or question. something that came up when we were like freshman which annoyed

us and bothered us and i'm wondering if that came up too. it the "sports illustrated" article about -- >> about jack donahue? that is in the book because stan grayson is one of them men and obviously was deeply affected. this was a "sports illustrated" article were basically jack donahue who was the basketball coach at the time of holy cross, i've believe called -- >> he was recruited to holy cross -- >> yes, karim abdul-jabbar. and then you know he had made racist comments and so that does come up for a moment in the book. certainly stand talks about the interaction he had with coach donahue over that incident but i will you now, eddie i don't know if you want to talk about that but i think certainly one of the themes that has come up is father brooks understood that

this was not something that was simply just good for the students. he felt it was good for the college. he felt it was good for the other students there and i think it's telling the books that were assigned to those of you who were there at the time. one of them was i think in 66 art martin was saying that bob -- autobiography of malcolm x by one of your fellow alumnus michael harrison so i think that is very much a thing but theme but i'm going to let eddie address the. he knows better than me. >> he in my opinion not only jumped in but swam the nile. is brian panel hear? i prefer brian. come on. brian was one of the white students that walked out with us so i would like ryan to tell his own story. >> and also the black corridor and how it was in fact three-quarters black because they were not enough black

students to fill the black corridor so that was -- yes, yes. >> thank you. i think dean's point is that we all learned a great deal from being at holy cross during this time of change, meeting people from different backgrounds. i played football for one week and busted my helmet and jeff dickenson was my roommate so we got along. sophomore year we decided to work together and we were up on the fourth. i recall one interesting story. jeff dickerson's dad i think was an architect. i didn't know that architects carried marbles. next door was a jesuit priest who live next door, father of

carney and i think he was the president manager of the architect and he had marbles. and i remember a day, they were both kneeling down on the floor in our room rolling marbles and i thought well this is pretty cool. my mother was a marbles champion in 1935. [laughter] so i could relate to this but i didn't realize. that is the kind of thing that we were exposed to. [inaudible] [laughter] >> that's right and that was a happy memory. >> it was very difficult. we felt that there had been too many, all of the black students had been identified and only a fraction of the white students who took part in the demonstration so we felt that there was overt racism and we were going to support all of the

students. and i remember thinking what am i going to do? how my going to explain this to my parents? you know, what is going to go on? but then, over that weekend, the people realized how important was and father brooks and ted and clarence all got together and discuss this and talked and eventually they worked everything out. but you know, just a traumatic time, powerful time. we all learned from it. and i happened to be on the college judicial board my senior year and there was a demonstration on campus and students could have other students represent them in the

disciplinary hearing. and so we had several great students. of john sabar guyot represented someone and ted wells represented a student who got trumped and all i can ancop afterwards was, i hope that i never have to face tad on the other side but he represented -- this fellow was very intense and later i saw on so many different venues. >> he said that was the start of all his pro bono work and he never quite recovered. >> thank you very much for your time. >> i think there was another question over here. >> eddie, don't go away. my question was for the students

who were like eddie. he go through the process, you get father brooks making a pitch to come to holy cross. what was it like for your parents having to contemplate something that was probably very difficult to even think of the 1968? >> and i think it would be interesting, because you had have several options adey as well. it wasn't the only school that let them in and gave him money and i think eddie was mulling over several choices. holy cross not being your top. >> he so why go down south. do you know who this is? this is cathy. >> this is pg-rated tv here. stop that. >> her husband was not only one of the finest basketball players but -- he is a great man, a great man.

glad to have you here. [applause] if any of you have relatives you would like at the executive program, this lady is it. so i thought i was really good and really fast. coming from new york we were all americans so i go to florida a&m so we all line up and say hey, the first three or four players that win this race they are going to get scholarship so we line up and we are running around and i take off the first 30, 40 killing everybody. people start passing me and i end up finishing last. i said, who were those last four or five people? they said those were people in the van. [laughter] the band was that fast. so i didn't get a chance to go to florida a&m and thank god they didn't have a bad band at holy cross.

i havee my job. have got to go because this new job i have, have to tell you it's just been appointed the new diversity -- so i have to do my job before the board but thank you everyone here for sharing, for sharing our lives with us. >> thank you, eddie. [applause] >> and he will waive to us from the super bowl if you were watching on sunday. ted will be there too on the opposite side. >> my name is jim cabot and i was in the class of 1970. i was one of the college judicial board for the walkout and so i saw it from the other side. of course the first thing i did when i bought your book was look in the index and i wasn't in there. >> you are one of the names in

the archives. like, who is that? develop his character more. i can. >> but the process the went through it, there is a serious hearing. we cross-examined mr. shea i think it was and he was out there in the open and we went at him. when we got into deliberations it was to students against the administration and the faculty and the decision was made over the two objections i've think we wrote a dissent. i can't remember for sure but the drama was just so intense and as you said, that ended at 3:00 in the morning. we went home, came back and this had happened which was just such a brilliant move, but it was incredibly intense. i haven't gone through the whole book yet but it was great bringing that back. >> well and i think those interesting is father sword said

this was in fact what they had done was a clear violation of college policy and so technically according to a policy that it just been passed days before, think specifically to avoid this kind of situation, they have broken the laws so what it was that really -- these men was the fact that it was specifically the organizers of the rs you i think it was called at the time and the random black students who happen to be with the same kind of you know hey there's a demonstration and i will show up crowd that would probably show that a lot of demonstrations cared about the war. father brooks clearly thought of racism coming just getting people to understand that the difference between the letter of the law and the spirit of what was happening. i think one thing that comes through i hope in the book is that this was not a tactical move where they thought well you

know we are going to kind of get them to come back. these guys really thought they were essentially abandoning their education and knew full well that many of them would not have other options. clarence thomas one -- for one knew he would be kicked out for having left the seminary. >> the other focus of the hearing was the fact that not only was -- and also the leaders of all of the political groups in the schooling clearly at the hearing they picked up the people that they knew, the leaders and they were many people in the quarter but they picked out the ones who were the leaders in the sense -- kos be a opportunity to get them off-campus. >> exact. >> it's a very dramatic time and they think you know it just crystallized certainly, think what really made the relationship was father brooks so strong was he personally

fought very hard to bring them back and get the colleges to agree to the decision. >> a great book. >> thank you. >> i have got a question, diane. what was it like interviewing the gentleman? were they all cooperative? did everybody buy into this right away? >> you know well, justice thomas was challenging and when we first met, the first thing he said to me was, the problem with your industry is that journalists lie. i said zero code thank you for having me. [laughter] but do you know what? i think that i did not come in within a strong agenda about clarence thomas. he then proceeded to give me three and a half hours of his time, has met with me since then and the warmth that he showed, the sense of humor that i had not seen necessarily in public

settings took me by surprise and also i think light, very specific memories of holy cross and very warm memories. what was so surprising for those of you who read this book. he wrote memoirs of his grandfather but he spent very little time at holy cross. very little time and this is out of hand the way he was then. he considers himself a radical who had you not change and transform. i think what became clear through this process and i will move to the other men, was that actually he shares many of the views that he did in fact have at that time and feels that closeness to these men that continues today. he and ed jones were very close and gil hardy who died, and i think that, i think part of this process in recent years is he

has reconnected with the college and i'm hopeful that he'll brooks was part of that but i think it shows a the kind of nuanced side of clarence thomas and i think he understands and appreciates holy cross at this point in his life much more deeply than he might have even several years ago. the other men were generally cooperative. ed jones is not the wild extrovert and is a brilliant writers are writing about somebody who has won a pulitzer prize for literature is intimidating to say the least, but very keen memories and i think in many ways the many issues that he thought ford then continues unabated today. ted wells is a lawyer through and through and was very -- though there's a difference between writing an article in writing a book so there was some discussion with him and when i suggested the idea of a book it was like well, with a book you start getting into girlfriends in relationships and problems with mother and everything else.

ma wells was wonderful by the way but he wanted to make certain it was accurate so i did make sure that whatever -- that everything was accurate. one thing i did was i didn't really go heavy on the dialogue because i think it's just natural that there's revisionist history and you try to get multiple points of view on what happened at a certain time, how people behave. at the same time you can't give them complete approval to just you now go through and take out whatever they don't like because that essentially strips the book of a lot of interesting details. so all of them more corporate or. i think they were very generous and i think the reason was father brooks. certainly clarence thomas the reason he did this and the reason he came back to the college was because of how strongly he feels about father brooks.

>> hi. just a couple of comments. i was in a class of 77. >> all women. you got to see all the women all the way through. >> that's right, that's right, which was an interesting addition and really helped us grow significantly. i guess a couple of observations with regard to the black corridor. i was struck by the fact that how a few both black and white students had very little interaction coming from places like d.c., philly and some of the heavy inner-city areas. a lot of the black folks had good interaction and a lot of the white folks had very little interaction. i think it created an opportunist that really you know i think the schools that have to navigate through that there is still a fair amount of work to do because there was a general

sense among black students at the that the burden was on them to reach out and not necessarily in the other direction. the second i guess it that i would make is with regard to an emerging black middle-class. at the time that a lot of stuff was happening. i think the world looks very different from an industry standpoint. there are the general motors of the world. i grew up in western new york and that was a big part of our lives there and helped you know promote skilled workers into the professional ranks. people were sending their kids to college but given what is going on right now economically i guess i'm more concerned as my kids had to college, what happens with some of the diversity objectives? for what is the way forward i guess? >> it's interesting and i think it's an excellent point because i actually wrote an article

recently and it was looking at the fact that this generation you know, your generation went through integration in the back there have been a lot of entrepreneurship in the black community in part because it was necessary. under jim crow you have the had the black hairdresser and black industry was serving black consumers. one thing that's interesting to me right now is as a group, of the new businesses that have been starting in the united states 25% of them have been started by hispanic, latino entrepreneurs and african-americans have lagged. i think one reason is because of integration there are some cultural issues such as starting businesses, access to capital and a lot of, with the unemployment rate i think a lot of very highly accomplished african-american college graduates come into the public sector and we know the public sector is shrinking even as the private sector hires will continue to shrink in one reason

they went to the public sector, those jobs or were posted. it's not the byzantine how did i get that job? these were jobs they could compete for for and open spaces and i think that has reaped incredible havoc on the middle class. is an issue i know that reverend jesse jackson has made a top priority and it's an issue every year that ted thinks about an eddie thinks about and there's a lot of focus right now and how do you bring back where the jobs are going to be with small-business entrepreneurship and you know frankly silicon valley. there has been a lot of attention on venture capital and what is happening in the silicon valley. thank you. that might be it. >> who else is here from the late 60's perhaps the want to reminisce a little bit? >> you want to rub it in.

reminisce. [laughter] >> hi i'm ed joyce, class of 71 and one of the interesting things to me having been there and a couple of other people mention they were on the college teachers shall board, i think i was on in between you and i think part of what came out of this was the college took the position that if an incident happened and there was a racist civil rights element to it, it would be considered as a defense, the future judicial proceeding. i was on the board for the first one of those and it was very difficult to deal with, this issue. it was an issue where i think most of the whites on campus didn't think it was a racial issue but most of the black

students did. you are on this college judicial board is one of two student representatives with faculty members and administrators and you are trying to deal with this because you know that the black students involved clearly thought that was a racist issue. they knew that almost everybody else on the campus didn't feel that way and we had to deal with that. the most interesting part of that to me was that was actually the first situation where ted wells was the defense counsel and i am a lawyer now and look back at that as being the judge in seeing ted wells handle the situation. one of the defense witnesses was clarence thomas so you are sitting there and now i'm looking back 40 years and for those who don't know, ted wells was one of the most prominent litigators in the country. >> and he was lawyer of the year i think 10 years ago.

>> a really prominent person so observing this even then ted was incredibly impressive, really was impressive. he was the year behind me so he was maybe a sophomore or junior at this time but just to deal with, wouldn't call it a repercussion but what came out of the blacks leaving campus and the rest of the community trying to deal with it. we got through with it and it worked out okay. >> you forget how passionate people weren't also i think when we talk about art college days we tend to put ourselves mentally back there and forget that these were kids. the day were 18-year-old, 19-year-old kids and the judgments you make it 18 and 19 are quite different and the emotions you feel and some of the things they asked for bordered on ridiculous frankly especially when the muslim students came to look at the grocery list of what they expected the college to buy

right down to particular brands of tea that couldn't be purchased in the boston area. that is what they do. you push, push, push and see how far you can get. the black students took over another building in their senior year and ran into another group that was protesting and they had to divide up to god to save wear. so it was just the times and i think it was difficult and i think that not in every case can you say that they were always on the right side. in this case i think they weren't father brooks did and it everybody shows they were but there were many incidents where they did things that frankly the college should have fought back and say okay enough already. when i look back at this time, first of all is such an amazing moment in history. everything from event of act that the entire football team came down with hepatitis, case

that ended up being written up in the "new england journal of medicine." you have the vietnam war. you had women and many different groups have for fighting to get an equal slice of the pie and to get the chance to see this microcosm with this group of men who happen to do very well. there were men who did not do very well and those of you in the class know that there were many dropped out. african-american men, white men, not everybody made it through college and i was a particularly tough time in college and many of them were coming to a white college for the first time and discovered that they were in fact not prepared. he was the top student by far at his school in savannah. he was not prepared for chemistry. it wasn't anything to do with intelligence. he certainly had not gotten the curriculum that prepared him for the curriculum at holy cross. that sort of thing happened again and again but to look at father brooks and to look at the

network that form the college again and again is the story right now that i hope it is inspiring to this generation who might not necessarily remember that period in history and hopefully the future of holy cross generations as well. thank you so much for having me here and thank you so much for the support of your the book. ibook or to hearing more stories as i go on to see more of you so thanks again. [applause] >> it thanks very much diane. that was really terrific. and certainly puts it all into perspective as you reflect on an important era in time in holy cross history. certainly the determination of father brooks. certainly his leadership has

meant an awful lot not only to those talked about in the book but many of us here in the room. i can't help but tell this one little vignette when father brooks was here. a young woman asked, father what was the jesuit residence when a college when the vote was taken to go co-ed? he paused very very briefly and without hesitation replied, we thought we had all died and gone to heaven. [laughter] so he has meant an awful lot to an awful lot of people and just as recently as yesterday there was an op ed in the "boston globe," great piece particularly about father brooks. i would certainly like to thank the harvard club for everything that they did today, mike shanahan, my assistant against the wall. appreciate everything you do

very much. kristin and christine moloney thank you very much for coming from the college and being so helpful and c-span for everything you have done so well. and finally books will be available for purchase and diane is here to sign the books and once again that we'll be back in the charlotte room where we had the buffett. there are lots of things going on at the local club level so check the holy cross web site, in particular a great raffle right now i think for a big trip, and major trip so it's a great opportunity to support the club. we look forward to seeing you again in march. thank you very much. [applause] [inaudible conversations]

>> he recently booktv toured a new library of congress exhibit called books that shaped america. we are going to show you that exhibit here in just a minute, but we also want to issue an invitation to you to participate in an on line discussion about books that shaped america. what books you think may be included or should be included. we are going to show you what the library of congress came up with and if you you are adjusted and participating in an on line discussion with us, e-mail us at booktv at c-span.org. now here is the tour. there is a new exhibit at the library of congress and it's called books that shaped america. booktv is taking a tour that exhibit and joining us is roberta shaffer who is associate was associate librarian for the library of congress. ms. schaffer, why do you call it looks that shaped america? >> well they actually call it looks that shaped america as opposed to some 80 other words we considered like changed america because we think that book slowly have an impact on

american society and shaped seemed to be the better word to a imply that connotation. >> when you think of the word shapes what book and exhibit comes to mind? >> actually that is the fabulous part of this exhibit. no one book is shaping america. so many books have had such a profound influence on american culture and society and indeed the very essence of what america is that it would be impossible and it really would be improper to pick one book from the 88 that are here. >> there are 88 books and it the exhibit starts out with common sense. >> it yes it does although the earliest book is actually ben franklin's book on electricity. that is a 1761 so we have two books about common sense. one is.org spock's book on raising your child in a commonsense way and of course thomas paine's book that really

sparked or saved the american revolution. >> when you see these books are these all first editions, very rare? >> they are not all first editions that are very rare although we have many books in our collection, and our library of congress collection that would be first editions in very rare if not one-of-a-kind. we have selected books for a friday of reasons. some of them have inscriptions by other famous people or by the authors themselves. two books in this collection but i just adore are books that are part of the armed services book outreach, people who were serving in the military and so we have two examples of looks that soldiers have sent. i believe now they are sent books to read at the war front on ipods and other things. >> what are the two books you have? >> i believe one of them as tarzan and i'm trying to think now with the what the other one is.

oh my goodness. >> while you think of that, in this exhibit roberta shaffer of a lot of novels. >> yes and novels are a critical part of american culture. not only novels that people read, the common people read but some very highbrow and very complex novels. some novels that appeal to people of all ages. some children's books that are appeal to people of all ages. the "wizard of oz," "charlotte's web," hardly limited to just the children's audience. >> and gone with the land as well. how did this book shaped america? >> many of them identified who we were becoming and what aspirations we had as have as a nation. others told about experiences that we had uniquely as americans like the diaries of lewis and clark. many others really defined our dialect. huckleberry finn or nora nell

hurston's book talk and dialect and so it really shaped not only our views but how we speak today. >> you also have some social cultural books and i want to ask about those. you mentioned dr. spot. there are a couple of cookbooks in this collection and a book called the big book him alcohol x. anonymous. >> we also thought it was important to look at nonfiction books fed either were self-help or kind of broke barriers of certain kinds so please looked across the broad spectrum books and we did not want to limit ourselves to a particular genre or a particular kind of book or even a certain kind of author or writing style. we look for many books that were innovative, that kind of showed america as an innovative country, as a country that looks for technical solutions, they shared experiences broadly that feud books and stories to

inspire going to the frontier and that could be literally or in the intellectual. >> here is the library of congress. you are in charge of the winnowing process? >> that's an interesting question. it was definitely a very large committee. with no chairperson which i think is really adjusting. we had a number of discussions as people brought forth titles but believe it or not it was not all that difficult to select these books. because they think as you have implied, this is not a definitive list. there is an article, the book that shaped america in the title of this exhibition so we really decided what we wanted to do was choose books that would get america talking about books, and that was not as difficult to find consensus on as maybe choosing the 50 books are the 100 books. so we didn't need a chairperson.

>> some of the books in here have created social movements. i'm thinking ida tarbell, upton sinclair, rachel carson. >> yes. i think one of the interesting things about many of the books here are that they not only created social movements but some even lead to legislation, so we see the jungle in here and we know that it really created the forerunner legislation to the food and drug administration being created. not only social movements but actually legislation, actually social change. >> y. 88? >> 88 is where we decided to stop. we were worried about using a number that commonly was associated with a definitive list so we avoided 10, 25 and 100. beyond that it was kind of up for grabs the moment got to 88 we said we think that's a good number. it won't get anybody the impression that we