>> guest: i was betting against roberts too. >> host: i wasn't. >> guest: then what would have happened is somebody else would have stepped up, anthony kennedy would have stepped up. there would have been a much different dynamic. so i think that roberts is different in some ways. he's much more polished, i think, in his, um, dealings with all of his constituencies. but conservative like his boss, william rehnquist, i think really cut from the same bolt of cloth. >> host: john jenkins, thank you so much and good luck with your book. >> guest: thank you very much. thanks for having me today. ..

>> [applause] >> thank you very much. and as always to my favorite

politics and prose. i love that bookstore. [applause] and and to each and every one of you i am glad to be with so many friends tonight. not a double meaning but all that and do some of my oldest in the audience. it means a great deal to me. tomorrow is my birthday i will be on the airplane to go someplace i have not checked the schedule yet. [laughter] i think it is portland door again or 78 go.

-- san diego. united airlines will not give me presents. [laughter] who is here with us tonight? i am glad. [applause] i feel safer in a room with teachers. they are my heroes. especially in the elementary grades. i used to teach there it is the best thing to do but heche in life. mystery can end mischief with those point* sized people. if i decide to stop writing books i think it like to go back to first grade to do it

all again. i became a teacher 1964. i never intended to become a teacher. i have grown up in a privileged family. my mother and father were very ambitious. i went to harvard. forgive me. [laughter] majored in shakespearean era poetry and metaphysical poetry and of wonderful poet and then i went to oxford and got bored they're actually. sell many of the harvard boy use talked as if they were british even those from idaho. [laughter] sounded like british

lilt -- royalty. i moved to paris steadying at the theater some great authors it. i came back to the united states early 1964 to do to the at -- university for the academic career. my life was transformed forever that year when the rising tide with the fight for civil rights swept across the nation. thousands of people might age were heading down to mississippi to break the back of segregation in. i was living in cambridge at the time.

this was the 1960's. a volkswagen bug. i drove across town into the black community. i was never there before. although i had grown up just outside of boston. a revered figure of the black community both the associative doctor came and i asked him may i be of use? he said yes, young man. you can. i am glad you came here to talk with me in your own home town. you don't need to go to mississippi to find injustice. you can find the struggle here.

come into our schools to help our children. i walked into the headquarters and said i will be a teacher. and had never heard of certification. [laughter] i knew nothing about teaching. they did not teach you anything useful at harvard. they still don't. [laughter] the first day i taught they sent me to teach kindergarten. the first time i ever taught in my life. i was terrified. i had no idea what you do with people that size. they were like gerbils. [laughter] they would crowd all over me [laughter] i survived. they promoted me to fourth grade. one way or another i have been working with young

people of bourse since. -- ever since. starting the 1980's and route to the 1997 began to spend my time with a bunch of little kids living in new york in the section called mont haven that was then and today the single poorest neighborhood of all south bronx which remains the poorest congressional district of all 235 districts in america. i thought i had seen poverty but i have seen nothing of the scale of four. readers ask me what have been to those children? did you keep in touch with them? how many survived?

how many did not? and for those who did, how did they obtained the decent education? how far did it take them? where they doing now? some i am sad to say never did recover from the battering they underwent with the schools 10 or two exceptions the worst i have seen anywhere in the united states. they and the streets where the needle drugs and crack cocaine almost everywhere. three of the voices that suffered the most are no longer a live. one of them by a new him when he was eight years old.

he finally killed himself with a bullet to his brain in a moment of despair. another killed himself intentionally with inherit -- overdose of heroin. another died by surfing on a subway train. riding on the tops under the tunnels of york his friends were lying down flat. but in a moment of bravado as if to say nothing this city does to me can stop me now he lifted up his head and waved to his friends. this deal being struck his goal is body shuddered twice and was dead and not yet 14

at the time. those are only three kids that lost their lives that under the age. i mourned for them with their mothers and to the present day. many children in this book battled back courageously against the brunt of obstacles they have faced and with the help of grown-ups who intervened at crucial times and love them deeply and fought aggressively on their behalf have a tramp in victory. those children are in the fire in the ashes that i celebrate today. and wish there were time to

speak tonight to speak to all of them but there is not. i will speak of only one. a little girl who had won the hearts of the readers of my books and today it is one of my dearest friends whose nickname was pineapple. pineapple. pineapple is glorious six years old when i walked into her kindergarten class. a bossy little person slightly of the plum the side with corn rose across her eyes and started giving me instructions from the time we met to. she was respectful because of my age she tried to be but she found me deeply flawed.

is a very nice suit it was worn and shabby little kids are interesting day notice sayings if the teacher is a woman they can say what did you do to your her? you look horrible. she sat me down like go little social worker i had to sit opposite i remember.

first she grabbed the lapel and fingered it the way your mother would do. you are not going out in that. and said jonathan i want you to look respectable over there was an expression the part where wealthy white people live. now go into a good store she said. good news soup and then said to it for me. i finally did to escape per bullying but pineapple lived in a horrible building part

of a complex of 38 buildings where a predatory landlord you speak in abstractions. his name was joe shuster he lived in massachusetts and the same town where i grew up. they refused to make repairs they got these buildings from hud. the housing and urban development and the plumbing did not work so they would raise the tiles of the basement floor. pineapple would never let me use the elevator one of her

schoolmates died he lived on the fourth floor and the elevator door suddenly open end wide-open and he stepped forward automatically end fell for flights to his death and his body was not found until his blood began to drip on passengers. then the basement cafeteria than been a horror story how could i duplicate this? it smelled like a free the -- feeding trough for cattle. i would have to eat there

with her. you have to see and smell will we do to children. i don't know how you feel but aesthetics count a lot in the mentality of children. beautiful settings refined their souls. ugly settings course and their mentalities. this is how they value what we perceived of them. the sharpest way to draw the line across the races of this nation. aesthetics count. i know. you cannot fool me. i grew up in privilege i know what a cheerful school cafeteria looks like. glass doors to open on a

sunny day. eat outside in the grass and the teachers can chat with you. 32, 34, 36 children in a single room. teachers kept quitting. pineapple had said then different teachers in her third grade and fourth grade years. that is calamitous. there are wealthy people, especially in new york who insist class size does not matter if inner-city kids if they would buckle down and their teachers were not so lazy.

if the teachers did the job. and they do it as a question i do not need maybe 18 at the most. but i asked how many are in their class is. maybe 18 at the most. parents start to panic if it gets at 20. pineapple has 36 in her fourth grade year. this is my belief. was small class size allows the teacher to give to every single boy and girl if it is

the daughter of a senator or business ceo then it is good for the poorest child of the poorest hispanico or white woman in america. that is my own belief 55. the same people say jonathan, can you solve those problems by throwing money at them? you can say sure. that is a great way to do it. give it to me. i will give it to the principle myself i don't know how to fix the leaky roof. you can split the gigantic class and half. pineapples principal thought

she could compensate with rigid uniformity and methods of instruction by drilling for exams. this was the precursor of no child left behind. which was already modeled in many cities like houston and new york before granted as a blessing to the entire nation. it was all testing. if nothing else instead of giving children literature to read, real books, beautiful books. magical works by eric carle

carle, the very hungry caterpillar. he called me once. i was so happy i said you don't sound like a caterpillar of laugh and those who are slightly older a wonderful book called least purple plastic purse in. it is a great book. i recommend it to adults all but time. if it is in is write-up there. it is a phenomenal. i like to read children's books on airplanes. i was reading on a flight from los angeles and the man beside me gave me the

strangest look. reading the "wall street journal" but he kept peeking at my book. [laughter] and would say this book could save your soul. [laughter] instead pineapple got horrible quanex three years. i am not opposed to phonics. i encourage teachers today to use it selectively in instances where they need it. but these books are created with crazy people in this country there is a woman in arizona there are strange

people there. i will be there in three days. there is a woman in arizona but to speak about the homeless he comes up to me at the head as if there was a secret and says phonics. [laughter] i call her the fanatic fanatic of the next. [laughter] no pictures or drawings lower no plot. how does that grab you as a first grader?

one sentence went on 18 pages. you can guess i don't know that was to teach the consonant or the foul progress add sam sat on the stand. then the teacher would ask the kids to predict what happens next. [laughter] pineapple learned next to nothing. the fall of her fifth grade year i sat down with her but i never realized this because her conversational skills were superb and she could not read or write a sentence longer than five boards. and she was spunky and smart. artificially retarded by the city of new york. i talked about this with a

trusted friend of mine the priest of church and the south bronx in pineapples neighborhood. in spite of the priest with loyalty to the deal of public education which i share, she did what any wealth the parent would have done, she pulled her out to get her into a terrific private school. not a profit-making charter school, but not slowed demoted charter school, a preps school for rich children now with 15 children in the class those that were not terrorized to

drill for the exams that actually enjoyed her personality per love of learning cable live she came three years in the four years she was there in ninth grade she won a scholarship to racial the mixed boarding school in new england on the coastline of rhode island with a small glasses and teachers to children -- treated children respect because they were by than head administrator. tenth grade pineapple told me later was the break through year. from that point* on i knew that i could do it. i could go to college. it was a struggle. but she did.

i will tell you. i am so proud of her. one week from now she will enter her senior year. she did not drop out. she did not delay. she did it. she told me she has made up her mind to stay extra year in order to get certified as a teacher because she wants to teach and in the york public schools. [applause] she wants to go back to work with children in the bronx. you know, how those kids talk in never end affirmative sentences with periods. it is like a question mark. she says you know, , you know, what i mean.

dr. king said this? or, something like this? someone said this? pass in the torch along. that was the quote. then there was no question mark. that is what i have decided i will do. pass it on. to do it for the once the left behind. i am so proud of pineapple. her unselfishness. a lot of kids say now i have it made no i can go to wall street to earn money but she wants to give it back she is still very bossy i must say. [laughter] the last time she came to cambridge she stays over i have a big house where my

research assistance and white and turns live. she always complains man said last time jonathan, it is time for you to get real furniture. i had an orange crates as end tables. i will be glad to go with you to target. [laughter] that is her favorite store. pineapple was lucky she won the hearts of grown-ups who could intervene for her. and the priest of the church did the same for a lot of kids. and saved a lot of souls. if there is any less than not to celebrate exception melody. pineapple prevailed because

of charitable people, scholarships, philan thropy, a charity is a lovely thing. i don't turn it down. but it never will be, but it never was or is not now a substitute for systematic justice. [applause] foot it is too precarious, to selective. a child on the jeffersonian

idea. if i mention him on tv people think i must be a social list. socialist. bad. did you know, my books have been banned in tucson arizona? did you know, that? along with a lot of books i love including walden. civil disobedience. i will have a great time out there.

[laughter] i will go give kids copies of my book as they come out of public school. [laughter] a few final respectful words about the seeming hesitation of our president to speak out about these stories audacity. i use the word purposely. he uses it and the excellent book that he wrote. are respect the president. of course, i will vote for him in the election again. if i did not, of my mom, the lifelong democrat i remember her weeping the day franklin roosevelt died. she just passed away at the age of hundred and 20 couple years ago completing hillary clinton was not liberal

enough. [laughter] and five voted republican my mom would come back from the grave and scold me like pineapple. i'm disappointed the president has not taken stronger steps to rid us of the media of testing. ever since no trial left behind was enacted into law is a national psychosis. not just bad pedagogy but something psychotic. my father was a psychiatrist and used to take me to the back toward the of the mental hospital in massachusetts. some of the people in the most severe depression, the only way to ease discomfort

was it to number everything. restlessly a moving objects around to get them in the right pattern dead number them. i don't know. i think some of the bureaucrats who gave us this law maybe they would enjoy this day in a recovery house to get over the numerical addiction. judging teachers and children primarily on the basis of a very narrow slice of mechanistic skills to be measured simplistically by standardized exam and ruling out the consequence, ruling out to the rich forms of culture like reading books

for pleasure. what other reason is there to read a book and the way? but pleasure is not tested. no points for pleasure. asking koppel questions? indulging curiosity? developing real critical capacity so when they grow up can be discerning citizens. forget it. curiosity and questioning will not improve your score. they will impede the teacher because they steal time. some if you are nodding. not just teach to the test than at any given mitt of the day on the chalkboard to

have then name and number of testable skill your teaching at that moment. 920 you better be on the suffix or prefixes. the pending a which city you are in. i know teachers would love to engage the children with conversations to elicit good writing those that wave their hands they sound like they are dying. [laughter] you have to call on them. you have to because you do not want them to die. [laughter] little ones especially our squirmy little people and only have a theoretical connection with their chairs [laughter]

they want to ask something exciting if you this said then you can say that is wonderful. stop and righted down. now you have something to write about one teacher said what if the curriculum cops coveted and catch me? the two-tier in new york manage to the principal's office said i have never seen my a student so excited when we were talking about the principle said is excitement on the ninth grade exam?

will the kids of the am i and publix schools and private schools are encouraged to ask questions that is what the teachers want to said pour are a been trained to spell out the digested dancers. so the race is more than before. i am not opposed to testing. i don't want you to think i am a romantic hippie from the '60s i have friends they were opposed to anything within a structure at all. remember the open classroom? i was opposed to that all along like dan santa barbara

or vermont i got there and would see the kids doing nothing. and the parent would say my boy is 12 years old and cannot read. these are sweet people. the hit the teacher would say don't worry you have a beautiful child. he has a beautiful soul. when he feels his organic spontaneous read -- need to read he will let us know. we do not need to advocate adult led. i am not opposed it is useful the kind that helps

teachers to assess their students weaknesses better call diagnostic they tell them where they need help with punctuation or long division. then you act on the next morning because you give the test yourself. standardized exams do not provide this help. in most cities they do not get the test scores until the year is over two years ago they did not get it until september in the next year. the only function is to slap a punitive and retroactive label on the child forehead at the time it is no use at all.

in spite of recent statements from the white house to consider other factors in addition into the test of a child's progress apart from the exam scores to determine if the child made sufficient progress and the valuation. in spite of this the numbers continue to be the determining factor in the ratings of all word teacher because of the business and driven madness about things that can be numbered mw. there are students in my book. i wish i could told this

story but there is no time. this student is 12 when i met him. he was already on his own reading mark twain and circling charles dickson -- charles dickens, as he put it. he liked dracula. did you know, that is the novel? i did not know that was a real novel. i thought it was just too scared children. [laughter] i made a bargain with him. he promised a firewood could read it dracula he would agreed the tale of two cities. we both kept our promise and

i think he got the better part of the bargain. [laughter] at 13 he handed in his first novel he failed every test he took because he hated the 80 of the test and would not participate with the drilling some of the schools spend half the year how to outwit the test. nothing to do with learning. he went to school in england and ninth grade principal said this boy will never go college. he is not college material. he cannot pass his test. of wonderful headmaster said there is something and this boy. we will not give up on him.

he had 12 for 14 kids in his class. he graduated from a wonderful college a few years ago also back in the south bronx serving with the kids he left behind. he wants to be a minister. episcopal priest. he will give a guest sermon this sunday. the things about that boy that were so wonderful, they will never show up in numbers. i don't think thoreau would have done well on the standardized exams. he would purposely picked the wrong answers because he was so stubborn.

at least emerson said he was. the numbers dominate everything having a terrible effect on teachers and there moral. i will go for another five minutes because i will give you one example. into of the largest cities los angeles in new york, the school department's right now not just a debating t. -- grading teachers on their test by releasing to the press the names and ratings of their teachers york grades owe through 100.

100 is the best, i think. basing this solely on exams and "the new york post" is printing them. it does not matter if the teacher has 20 children and the class or 40. it does not matter if the kids to not come into the class until the middle of the year, and if a grant. the teachers sees her name with the words in effective, mediocre, rotten apple is the new york post. worst teacher of los angeles. that is happening right now. it is nothing more than a shaming ritual. the purpose to drive the stake into the hearts of teachers and drive the best ones who refuse to teach to the test out of education

altogether. it is successful. they wished the president would condemn this assault on the dignity of teachers with the eloquence and at the call authority he has at his command. he does a tremendous disservice and wish, i wish he would defied the right wing nuts and stand up to condemn this out right. those who have contempt for teachers and tried to report public-school some voucher advocates. you have a small boats sure program in washington d.c. but many of these are in the

corporate arena and see the opportunity for unprecedented profits if they can invade the private sector with their offerings. these folks are very tivo coal and noisy people that dominate national attention. the rest are a2 subdued. timidity has crippled us. to final things. believe better not come i still have rich white friends in the year city. some of them republicans. a few. they still like me. -- introduced me to

important people it is an odd experience. i can tell they are nervous. they have a worried look as if i might say something horrible like an adolescent kid at thanksgiving when the turkey is served may say the i am of vegetarian. [laughter] so that gives everybody the creeps horrible things like that. they are afraid bible say something to ruin good dinner party. i am polite. i say before desert. the creme brulee and let them have it. they forgive me my harshest critics do not. somewhere influential people and some are on tv.

have you ever seen fox tv? they are social pass. [laughter] but they are smart and to meet and clint and quick and use their words like sharpened knives with surgical efficiency. there ibm trying to make a balanced statement. do i have time to risque supported net klaus? i am cut-off. it hurts. i was not brought up for battles of this kind but i will tell you my friends i am too old to bite my tongue. i don't care what happens to me now to view to my words now better the price i may be forced to pay i and 10 to

keep on fighting in this struggle for the dignity of teachers to my dying day. [applause] i will not give up i will end this on a personal note. i don't like to make people gloomy. except republicans. [laughter] not all of them i am added age where time is increasingly feel precious. many people i relied upon for guidance in working with children have been taken from this world in the past 10 years. nevada household you are you

always feel the need for someone who is wiser than new to give you the courage and to keep on. i think my best and oldest friend and education especially in the past have century sweet, shy, gentle man named mr. rogers. i bet you do i would say that. [laughter] maybe look good friend of mine. when we were it york together we had done something and public in the morning and had the rest of

the day he asked if i would take him to meet the kids i wrote about in the south bronx. he was very humble and ast if i thought that would intimidate the children. of was charmed do think mr. rogers could intimidate anybody. [laughter] i teased him. i think they can handle it. i said the quickest way is by the train. there is no trolly. [laughter] down the subway of new york than number six line is like eight minutes the poorest neighborhood in america at that time was a very, very dangerous street, the center

of the heroin trade with the dealers actually rented squares on the sidewalk from the drug lords to control the street. you know, the squares of cement? we get off and we are walking to taken to the public school. i am still loyal to the schools now matter how much i criticize. i thought we are such a divided nation is like gilts. they do not want to see another eg white man. they already know me.

that is enough in the black neighborhood. now there is to a bus. baloney. reebok half a block and a sanitation truck came screeching to a halt a middle-aged black man came to a halt lifting mr. rogers off the ground. [laughter] the public school it meant more to the teachers and the kids. kindergarten teachers just what. he did not ask them about there ayp but important questions like why they were scratching their tummies. not the teachers. [laughter] but the children. after-school we went where

we spotted pineapple as a candidate for college. an amazing church. it was packed. 90 kids. a little boy at the far end of the room who was also add my book as a grown-up. he was seven then. if they don't like you they can make it painfully clear. but if they do, you are in for it. we all know we will die some day and lose the ones we love the most. believes and and a sense of children will outlive us