remains in power as civil conflict wages, meanwhile rhetoric from the iranian government is escalating as the hint at the prospect of open conflict with israel. what is your approached the situations and what role should the u.s. take first with regards to syria, second towards iran and last towards the middle east in general. senator cantwell?

cantwell: it is a good question, kim coming and for syria it is a very complex situation. so the notion that the united states could get directly involved is something i don't want to do. i do support humanitarian aid. i do support making sure that the people on the ground have the ability to go to turkey and various places for safety. but the key thing for us right now is to continue to put pressure on china and russia and others to get the al-assad regime out of power and back down. they cannot continue to attack the people. the reason i say this is about the larger world community is because i work so hard in iran to make sure that in this case we use economic sanctions. i passed a bipartisan sanction piece of legislation with lisa murkowski from alaska that is now being put in place that basically puts pressure on china and other people to have

transparency on how iran gets oil refined. the reason that is important is because it is a huge percentage of the revenue. i believe we are starting to see iran change because of the pressure on their economy, and i hope that kind of action will bring them to the table as opposed to someone thinking we are flying in tomorrow. >> moderator: mr. baumgartner? baumgartner: this election shouldn't be so much about cementer cantwell's past failures of putting the war on a credit card but how she might vote for the next one. i had the great privilege of going to syria as a scholar on the u.s.-arab relations and high school, one of ten americans sent there. i had a great time there. we absolutely should not intervene. it is not in our national interest unless they start doing things with chemical weapons, and we think those are going to fall into the wrong hands then we should take action. with regards to iran, it is

absolutely dangerous thing for iran to get nuclear weapons and would like to lead the rest of the region going nuclear and the would be a tremendous security threat. the last thing we need right now is another poorly planned war and we don't need some interest authorized without clear exit strategies like senator cantwell has done repeatedly. we need to know what will happen the day after and with the hezbollah terrorists would be here to do in america if action were taken. right now we don't have credibility in the middle east because of the field of foreign policy but by withdrawing left afghanistan we can develop a strategy that moderate muslims on the ground to do with these issues. this is something in the key job description, a job application today to provide a lot of value in the u.s. senate. >> thank you very much. investment in education for shoulder and represent less than 8% of federal spending yet children make up the full quarter of the population. sequestration, which we mention will cut deeply into education funding more than $6 billion.

so what do you think is the role of the federal government in ensuring quality education for all children, and especially early learning? baumgartner: early learning is so important. i certainly have frequent discussions with my mother who is one of washington state's first board certified kindergarten teachers about the importance of what goes on before kids get into her classroom. it's something we need to continue to fund. every time you talk about sequestration i hope everybody at home things about senator cantwell's negligence and having a balanced budget on kicking the can down the road and the negligence of solving this, so there is no better stuff the sequestration. the federal government should set high standards and should test but i like the idea of more local control and decision making for how we support our education and i like the idea of federal dollars falling into students, so i like to see more parents be able to choose things

for them. unlike senator kent will i support public charter schools and supports innovation and i'm not someone will be a tool in the u.s. senate race at >> senator cantwell? cantwell: education is so important. as someone that went to school and got to go to it from college and know how important it is, but ednrique, your questions or with early childhood education and that's why i want to make sure that we don't have a ryan budget that would cut some of our most essentials education programs. i want to make sure that we invest in early childhood education and vindicate recalled system i've been focused to make sure that we continue science, technology, engineering and math. some of the best investments i've seen in the states have been at the school district or delta high school and the evergreen school in southwest washington or the asian high school. they are reinventing the way

education works. a new generation of young students to care passionately about those sectors that we need to have skilled workers so i'm going to keep pushing for that innovation but i am not going to support ideas like the right and budget which my opponent does that would cut pell grant education. we need more people going to for your degrees. we need them as well but we need to make college more affordable and i think this is a key difference. >> moderator: mitt romney says he likes big bird but he would fire him. federal funding for public broadcasting is an expense we can live without. critics say it misses the point because funding for public broadcasting is so small it has a large return on investment in terms of education. cellist now as you are being watched and listened to on public television and radio stations where you stand on funding for public broadcasting is it a waste or with?

>> one of the reasons we wanted to do this is because of what public television represents, and the fact this is free to be broadcast many times, not one might but many times between now and the election. we like that about public broadcasting. i should take an opportunity. my mom is here tonight and i know that she's grimacing a little bit because it's hard to hear all of this when your daughter is being attacked but i know how to stick up with myself. she and i had the most wonderful experience. we came down because of public broadcasting to the irish tenors and we had a wonderful time. she is a singer and has a wonderful voice and television brought those people into our living room we also got to come down here and listen to them perform.

its bringing things to the public they might not necessarily get to see on their own and i see that about public television. >> mr. baumgartner? my wife and i actually as a state senator you don't need a tremendous amount of money you make $40,000 a year but when you are raising two kids and looking to buy a house and do those middle class things like save for your kids' college you have to do belt-tightening so we actually dropped table and did over the air and watch a lot of pbs and my wife being english as a particular fan of the programs on pbs and i really like front line. it is the best coverage of afghanistan and in fact i was just talking a couple days ago i was talking about front line with a couple of the captains that deployed to go back and we were talking about those issues and i do want to mention when you think about senator cantwell's war they told me

about a group of 12 captains nine of them are getting treatment for ptsd and you think about the cost of the war get the idea of putting them on a credit card and we are taking the suicide rates are real, the divorce rates are real, ptsd and we have march allegis coming from the middle east and senator cantwell look at my gas tax and say we don't like it but it's an effort to pay for the war and everett to provide veterans and take our population a lot of things have gone on the the country hasn't gone to war. and we need something to remind american people that we saw a 70,000 troops in the desert right now. >> thank you very much. i would like to ask both of you to address the issue about tribal in the area. its proposed building a third casino at and off reservations site and the tribe needs to be

granted an exception of the regulatory act that generally prohibits acquired after 1988 so this is to create jobs and opponents of the project say that they would violate the spirit of the act, open the expansion of gaming and other cities. where do you stand on the proposed casino by the tried? mr. baumgartner? baumgartner: i know this issue because i oppose the expansion of this casino, the building of this casino. one of the things that is important that this issue is it is right next to the air force base which is tremendously important for the national security but also tremendously important for the economy of eastern washington, and this proposed casino would put that in doubt. and if to say in general with the issues in recent years when

he put up with economic development on the native american indian reservations. when i was a boy i had the great privilege of paying down at the french. i was almost the only non-native american on the team and we twice on the basketball championships and went to the nationals and i thought at a young age being different than everybody else in the competitive environment like that really helped my formation and helped me want to learn more about other cultures. i think that you would find me as someone that is a great sympathy and a desire but i don't think that the casino is the right maneuver in that area of washington right now. >> senator cantwell? cantwell: i've been very concerned that its increased across america. we don't have something called a preservation shopping. that is why we supported the stronger rules and making sure that these things are not blind. so, this tried has to go like every other one, through a process and procedure. i have no idea whether they meet

the requirements were not. but it's very important that they follow the process and the community and everybody around them has a say. i know there is concerns about fairchild. there's concerns from other business interests and that is what the regional process is. but i would like to go back to something. senator baumgartner as long. all of america did go to war iraq and iraq and afghanistan. we support our troops and those brave men and women that have served our country and we thank them and that is why i'm working hard when they come home to make sure they have jobs. but what is wrong is the notion that my opponent said he wouldn't have voted before going to afghanistan. but then when it came time to voting for the funds for afghanistan he said he wouldn't support that. that support was about standing up to the afghan army so that we

can have come home and afghanistan can take charge of their own responsibility. >> the state is being shut down as we heard earlier in the debate and converted to natural gas reed plans are also underway to build up to the five terminals in the midwest for the appetite. this seems like a contradiction. it's not okay to do it ourselves that it's okay to sell let and ignore the reality just as much as the coal burned here. where do you stand on the terminals in the northwest and how do you view this apparent contradiction? senator cantwell? >> i want us to get off of the fossil fuels and diversify. i think it would be better for the united states to pursue a policy of clean energy with china. we have things we can work on together that would actually mean jobs for the northwest companies to sell clean energy solutions to china. we already shifted airplanes and sold them software and coffee

and working together on clean energy solutions would be a great idea. i'm going to make sure that as this proposal moves forward and now the various communities in the state that we are going to make sure the questions are asked about the mitigation, the impact of the facilities. during that process i hope we will come up with the answers. if we don't i'm not sure that the coal in and of itself should be the focus and moving forward but i do want to emphasize how much is important and imperative that we continue to build infrastructure for the u.s. to ship products to china specifically. succumb it may be that these terminals, that this improved infrastructure would help us in having a quick fast real way to sell their products in the future. >> moderator: mr. baumgartner? baumgartner: i have a lot of concern about the trains not

least of which is the line that split in my home district we need to know what are the impacts of this and what are going to be the comprehensive and pact? is it going to impact emergency response if we have people coming across and they can't get across the line of is going to happen? is it going to have impact on health care? so i want to see a clear understanding of that. but i would say that those that are against the coal trains simply because of the issue of the carbon in the atmosphere, china is going to burn it whether we like it or not and that is just a fact of life. if you do not want the chinese to do that i would recommend using a former diplomat to the senate to work on those kind of issues but i think we have to realize what the chinese are going to do. i certainly approve of the idea of greater energy independence which is going to require and all of the above approach and

more development of natural resources here. that is connected to getting our troops out of the middle east making us more dependent on foreign dictators overseas and in very connected to the economy trying to balance the debt to leave america for the futures of the natural resources are one of the things that must be developed here in america. >> it's been reported a common practice among the local law enforcement agencies and many counties in washington state is to call the u.s. border patrol and the person was pulled over and could only speak spanish. they find they are here without documentation. they say such actions on the border patrol is often racial profiling and raises a serious concern about violation for the federal civil rights act. should this common practice continue and should this be the role of the u.s. border patrol?

mr. baumgartner? baumgartner: first we should teach the law enforcement officers spanish so they can communicate directly. they should learn languages and the interconnected global economy. my french isn't as good as it used to be but i do enjoy speaking and one of the reasons i met my wife said afghanistan is because she used to speed dari. our immigration system needs a lot of work. it's one of the failures of washington, d.c. for these years because rather than solving it, it's been more opportunistic to make it as a wedge issue in election years. that is a case for this issue. border patrol's need to be secure but they shouldn't be seeking to deal with petty criminals here that is something the law enforcement should do directly. >> this is a very important issue about balancing privacy rights and security issues.

we all know the case when a terrorist tried to come over the canadian border into our state, and it was good border patrol security that actually stopped him. what we need to do though is make sure that around our borders coming and we have had problems in port angeles and even in the county, people stopping and pulling individuals over when they don't even know what agencies or organizations they represent. sali intervened on the peninsula to make sure that the local law enforcement was working with border agents and establishing a regime to make sure that the local government was taking the lead. this is an important issue. we want the privacy rights of individuals in the northwest to be respected and we want their civil rights to be respected, but we also want to have good border security. so, i think having local law enforcement play a role in communicating with border patrol is very important and we will continue to make sure that that

is done. >> that was the final question. we are going to now move to the statements. it's determined in advance and we began with senator cantwell. >> thank you very much and too kcts 9 and my opponent and everyone here. i also want to thank my nephew that is here with, one is from out of town. this election am i said my nephew is looking for a job, and reminds me how much jobs and the economy are what's important here so that's why i worked hard to help the fishing industry by coming up with a new process to create fishing jobs. i wanted to make sure the shipbuilding industry and more jobs were created. i focused on aviation and as the chair of the aviation committee coming you bet i will focus on making sure we remain the hub of the industry.

we passed good bipartisan legislation to make sure that we invested in jobs and construction and other infrastructures. this election is about whether we are going to continue to move forward on the types of job creation that the nation needs or whether we are going to try to balance this budget on the backs of our seniors. i am not plan to do that. i'm not for the rye in plan and the getting social security or the safety net. i know if we invest in the american worker our economy will be strong. like 50 years ago today when we opened the space needle we can have an area of opportunity, but it is an investment in science and technology that is going to get us there and not the policies of the tea party. we don't want to filibuster more of converse. i am asking for your support. i will continue to work hard in the north-south corridor that we got done to the southwest washington and the improvements

there. to fight for these policies in washington, d.c. to make sure we get the job done. >> mr. baumgartner? baumgartner: thank you. i went to steve for the moderator is and league of women voters for putting this together and senator cantwell. i certainly wish we could do more. it's been a disservice to the voters of the state. we haven't had the opportunity for more debates but i appreciate this opportunity here. campaigns should be about who's got the most money and who wears what political hat. the crisis in america right now is too important and we should have the best ideas and solutions. i think you have a clear idea what you're going to get from senator cantwell, a lot of what you had the last 12 years. this is a time for the remarkable leadership and its symmetric and will have the ability to do something remarkable i think you would have seen it in those last 12 years. i've traveled all around this great mother earth of ours and

this great country come and i know that america is absolutely exceptional. it doesn't mean we don't have things to improve on and we can't learn things from other countries but we are so exceptional and one of the reasons is because we always leave things better in america for the next generation that comes that's not happening right now the war hasn't been funded and the lack of a foreign policy in the middle east. i don't want to see that happen. so, with your help and with your folk you are getting somebody that can strongly speak his mind and be a voice of independent leadership, it won't be about whether i republican or a democrat, it will be about doing what is right. i think together we can solve this challenge, solve the debt crisis by real ideas and not just platitudes and i think if we do that we will continue with what makes america so exceptional and we will leave a better america not just for my

comrade or from but for your children and grandchildren as well. im michael baumgartner. thank you for being here and i am asking for your vote as u.s. senate. >> we thank you both for being here and that is all the time we have for the debate. >> you can get more information about this and other races by going to kcks9.org/vote2012. there are maps and links to resources including the league of women voters. >> i would like to thank the league of women voters in washington for partnering with kcts 9. thanks to the studio audience and the candidates for joining us today. let's please give them another round of applause. [applause]

we have come too far to turn back now. the last thing we can afford to do right now is go back to the same policies that got us in this mess in the first place. i cannot allow that to happen and i will not allow it to happen. that's why i am running for the

second term of the president of the united states. >> food prices are up, health insurance premiums are up. it's really tough being middle class even if you have a job in america. and so we are going to vote to create more jobs and more take-home pay. that is our passion and why we are in this race. we need a strong america as we can provide for our family and the future of this great country. ahead of last night's second

presidential debate. students that visited the boss told us some of the issues most important to them in this campaign. >> i'm a student here at hostetter university. the biggest issue to me is a student that and how each candidate will help pay off the student loans and get a job in the future. >> bye name is julie and i met freshman here and the most important issue to me is student funding because i don't think we should be penalized after all of the school work to get into the job market and be in debt. >> my name is and the and the most important issue to me is equal pay because i work hard right now so that i can graduate and get a job and make as much money as my male counterparts. >> i am a freshman here and the most important issue for me is the health care. this issue affects my future and my children's future and that is what is most important here in the campaign. >> i would ask the candidates

why would you not in the duffield war on drugs? >> the debate for the colorado's seventh district house seat representative ed perlmutter against republican challenger joe coors. this is focus on jobs and the economy and was hosted by cbs colorado public television. it's 25 minutes. >> good evening from rocky mountain pbs. this is colorado state of mind. tonight in the series of programs on the next colorado congressional delegation we come to the district 71 of the metro area districts where the population is almost 90% urban. that density is contained in a relatively small area, the seventh district is on the east side of the pink area and includes lakewood and part of adams county. after redistricting the change

is not completely perceptible on the map but the 614,000 people represented, of those more than a third were previously in the district number two. a democratic congressman ed perlmutter held the seat for the past six years winning the election twice before. he's a lifelong resident of jefferson county and an attorney. this year businessman joe coors is the republican challenging perlmutter previously known as coors porcelain. every race this year is about the economy. let's talk first about the fiscal cliff, the combination of tax hikes and across-the-board spending cuts that will take effect in january unless a compromise is reached. the implications of the middle class, the family with earnings in the 110 to 140,000-dollar range would see an increase in their tax bill of about $6,000.

mr. coors even if you would when you wouldn't be in place before any of the deals that might be made by the end of the year. but if you will, please, talk about the specific compromises you would be willing to make and then you would like to see need to avoid the fiscal cliff. coors: a walk around the district to talk to small businesses they are scared to death for the spring to happen june were reversed if something is not done. if the current race is allowed to expire in 1 million small-business owners would be faced with an incredible tax increase, and it's estimated by the national federation of independent businesses that up to 700,000 jobs would be lost as a result of this because who is going to pay for it, the extra taxes that fall upon the

1 million. would be to definitely extended the current tax rates. i would compromise back to five years if there would be necessary, and i think even getting five years we might be able to do something. >> the reason the congress put this in place was because they are certainly feeling the bush tax cut shouldn't be continued. you're going to be involved on this, congressman. what do you see? is it possible to leave things just as they are? >> we have to understand how we got here. at the end of the clinton administration, we had a surplus. revenues exceeded expenses.

and then under george bush we had the major tax cuts that cost the country about $2 million. we had the war that we paid for or didn't pay for on the credit card that is a couple trillion dollars, and then a deregulated wall street that ran amok and that cost the country and all sorts of ways but about $3.5 trillion. so half of the nation's debt comes from those three things. it doesn't come from the grand or education. it doesn't come from transportation, and it doesn't come from pbs or big bird and sesame street. but what we face is a major debt that we have to figure out how to pay. i am part of a bipartisan group, democrats and republicans, that has come up with a simpson-bowles-like budget for families and businesses and the nation you have to have revenue and expense, so you need to have

revenue and managed expenses in this particular instance so that we can over a ten year period reduce the nation's debt. so i believe, and i hope after this election there will be in the lame duck period a bipartisan group in the senate and the house would get together and come up with something like simpson-bowles which doesn't take us off the fiscal click on january 1st, but provides us with a bipartisan tenure business plan that reduces the nation's deficit by $4 trillion. >> moderator: that purpose 38 people. perlmutter: yes we are called the brave 38 by usa today. the post -- we have to do this in a bipartisan fashion. democrats and republicans won't get this done, and there is a lot at stake and you mentioned it in your opening.

>> moderator: the simpson-bowles commission on the deficit had bipartisan people running it and the bipartisan support before the congress. are you in favor of simpson-bowles and the things it calls for to settle this problem? coors: it was adopted even by the president of the united states or by the senate and a hole in the bag. it is because on the basis of obamacare it's a horrible disaster financially to this country. >> i think the main reason joe doesn't embrace simpson-bowles as because it recognizes we need additional revenue in the

country not just cutting different programs with their it is big bird and sesame street or some transportation projects were those kinds of things. you have to have both sides of the ledger and look at the revenue and the expense if we want to make a dent in the debt and it's wishful thinking on his part to say let's just keep these tax cuts that generally benefit the wealthiest people in the country without and just keep those giving end let's start cutting things because that's not -- we need the services within it is five-year grants for education building schools, transportation, those kinds of things. so i think we need a business plan that takes us out ten years that really takes us away from the fiscal cliff and does this in a moderate sort of way where nothing is sacred. everything is on the table both on the revenue side as well as the expense side. >> moderator: is there a formula in your life for how

much $3 in spending cuts and 1 dollar in the what was on the right path? it's let's see how the deal was developed but i think simpson-bowles was for every dollar and revenue is probably two and a half to $3 in expense cuts, and looking at all kind of things from defense to health care to, you know, interior department. so everything is on the table and that is how we have to look at the speed even though most of those things didn't create this major debt the country has incurred of the last ten years. we are where we are and we have to get busy and get on with it. >> moderator: did you disagree with the fact more revenue is going to be necessary to straighten this out?

coors: to the united states is the strongest economic power in the world and the backbone of the country and small business is operating in the free enterprise involvement. if we can get the government out of the way and put it back in the texas, we will accomplish something that hasn't been accomplished the last four years in terms of the small business sector of the united states from going ahead with ammunition, if you will come to really ignite the country's economy. >> moderator: why do you think the small business has not performed in terms of job creation for the past four years, is it strictly a recession? >> we have a major recession, something that we haven't faced since the 30's. so those companies are beginning to grow now and we are beginning to see unemployment dropped today. we heard recently that, you

know, unemployment has dropped to 7.8% and so, we are making inroads and small businesses are starting up upc in colorado construction is up and home prices are coming back out, so we are on the right track and small businesses will start forming and continue to form and will really put a lot of people back to work and that is my goal. we must share the same goal but at the same time, if we don't want to go off this fiscal cliff and we need to have a reasonable business plan that understands it is both revenue and expense you can't just cut your way out of the situation. >> moderator: since you brought up obamacare and the de bate mitt romney talked about obamacare as well but there are certainly plenty of parts about it that he seems to embrace. is it necessary to repeal the whole thing and do you lose a lot you have to put back in

place? >> in its entirety it is going to add $1.7 trillion to the cost over the next ten years. it creates 158 new agencies and programs and creates an independent advice advisory board that is to tell everybody what they can do and what kind of services they can get and now the parts that i would extend, my platform we need tort reform because it is some of the biggest cost for the private practice health care private practice. the competition need portability, we ought to be able to take one plan were never you go and then we need to protect the bridges and conditions. >> moderator: let me ask you to react to all of that. perlmutter: those issues he brought up are in obamacare and

there is a pilot project on that reform and the opportunity to take things across the interstate lines but really the purpose and the main reason i support the affordable care act and obamacare is one that does away with discrimination against people who have prior illnesses and prior health conditions and the like and that is something that is huge so an insurance company can't deny you because you've been sick before. that is a huge step forward in terms of civil rights for the country. second, it allows young people to stay on their parents' policy until they are 26. coming through a fragile economy, that's been very important for a lot of families. a couple million across the country. it helps close the doughnut hole george bush created in his medicare approach so it helps close that doughnut hole and one of the most important things is

it expands women's health choices. so i like to see obamacare maintained. there are always ways to refine and improve anything. >> moderator: can you give me an example of what you would change? perlmutter: there was an additional charge to small businesses over $600 we modified that early on so the bill would be improved. i think we want to take a look at some of the delivery services because really what this is all out is the cost of health care generally support of what we want to do is make sure that the administrative costs are reasonable cause the board and the we want to continue to do that in the affordable care act. coors: the ticket out of

medicare and put it into obamacare leaving seniors with less of a promise that we need to protect. >> we need to set the record straight on that one. $716 billion of savings is over a tenure period and that savings is placed back into the medicare system so that the medicare system is prolonged. so there are not in the benefits cut. there is nothing like that and so it's just an error. >> moderator: i know we could go on and on with that in terms of what president obama and matt fahmy said about it, but let me switch to something that we are not seeing talked about everywhere in the congressional races and that is gun violence. the experience in july and then several subsequent shootings in wisconsin and minnesota and elsewhere, there is a cry on the

part of some people saying that congress should do more than offer condolences, it should be making some actual changes in how and what people can access in this country. what is it that he would want to get behind on that way? >> july 20 it was a sad day for the country and for the city, the metropolitan area. it will never be the same after that killing and i have had a chance to meet with the families. some of those who were killed i've met with and others have been wounded today i met with the medical teams and law enforcement and for me this has become very personal, so on the one side of the district to have columbine where a terrible tragedy 13 years or so ago and then a couple months ago on the other side. so, for me the subject of

control, public health coming from the shootings is something we have to deal with and they're more common sense approaches that can be taken to avoid. >> moderator: banning assault weapons? perlmutter: look at the old assault weapon application that expired a couple years ago. that means to be reviewed. one is to require -- right now if you want to buy a firearm you have to buy it from a licensed firearm dealers face-to-face that you can buy ammunition over the internet or mail-order so one dillinger cosponsoring requires that you have to buy ammunition from a licensed dealer face-to-face and another is the weapons had extended magazines on his assault rifle and extended magazines on

handguns and another bill was to reduce and not have these extended magazines because it allows it to become a machine gunner to be that somebody that wants to defend that person wants to hunt doesn't meet these 100 round magazines. >> moderator: that is exactly what i was about to say to you is that in these mass shooting cases they may be individual cases but without the kind of ammunition and certain weapons that were available, that might not have happened. u.s support if i understand correctly note changes? coors: i can't imagine the grief of the people by this act. i also believed we can't do anything to ban to keep

criminals from getting the weapons that carry out of these leads. >> moderator: does it make sense not to be able to purchase on-line without a face-to-face contact could you get behind that? to get your ammunition from a licensed dealer? coors: i support what the governor said. they are not laws that can be created to keep people from doing whatever they want to do. they will get them illegally. >> he mentioned from mental health aspect of this and that's something that i think we need to continue to. perlmutter: people that have weapons are of sound mind, so that is the person where there would be some common ground. >> moderator: and is that part of the -- perlmutter: we certainly are

looking at different mental health approaches of who has weapons and making sure that if somebody has mental health issues that that information is available to the dealers said that they know who is buying ammunition and guns from them. >> moderator: and the few minutes i have left one to get a comment from each of you on the ads that you are running and which each of you have called the other dishonest or baseless. i will start with you mr. coors if you can describe this ad that you had that connects to cylinder. how does it go and what is it supposed to accomplish? coors: as you know, it has been an example of picking winners and losers at the expense of taxpayers, but congressmen perlmutter than he liked would go to washington, d.c. and his

wife who got paid $140,000. >> moderator: by the time that happened she was no longer married to congressmen perlmutter. coors: he made it very clear a public promise that is documented in the post that in the three months that promise was broken. >> moderator: will you give us the action to that? perlmutter: yes, i will. >> moderator: do you have one? perlmutter: what i have here is the editorial response by the denver post and it's a shame our families have known each other for longtime but this was over the top and the denver post describes it as a despicable, deceitful and desperate. it's a shame they are running

that add and as the post said, he should be embarrassed. >> moderator: is also attacking the one that you are running an ad implies there was a great deal of outsourcing of jobs from coors and a man that is a store in the ad was a longtime employee here in district seven. what are you trying to accomplish? perlmutter: what occurred is coors outsourced jobs to korea, south korea and also to mexico, and i believe we want to be making things here in america not outsourcing jobs. we want to employ folks here in our country and models where. so, the picture is one that came from the web site about the facility in south korea and there has been just from their

own investor statements in our facility in korea, quote, allows us to manufacture low-cost product in asia to our u.s. customers, or in order to enhance profits, the company is transferring certain labor-intensive high-volume component manufacturing to mexico. then finally, his brother says we are extremely pleased with our record third quarter. we are benefiting from the outsourcing trend. so these are statements that are being made to his investors, and i believe that if we make things here in america we will make it in america and we should be encouraging things like the production tax credit, the wind energy production tax credit, which then brings manufacturers to america and our area.

>> moderator: tell me why you object to these statements that are made. coors: he doesn't understand what it takes to get a business globally and i can tell you face-to-face that no jobs were lost in america because of our decision to open up an operations in south korea in order to serve the markets in asia. you have to be their sometimes of the request of customers. absolutely no jobs and accusing us of outsourcing johns. no charles were lost as a result of expanding south korea. >> moderator: i wish we could go on but we've come to the time i want to give each of you a chance to wrap this up with a statement as you would like to make. congressman, will you begin? perlmutter: i've now served in this position for six years, and i've grown up in jefferson county in the denver area and

what you learn is that if you listen, you are accessible and work together with others whether they are democrats or republicans you can get a lot of things done but it's getting the new hospital under construction which is the biggest construction product in colorado or helping expand the national renewable energy lab was so that it can continue its mission you can get a lot of things done and i am proud that the denver post has called me the most bipartisan member of the colorado delegation, and i think i can continue to get things done to the people in the southern congressional district. my name is ed perlmutter and i ask for your vote. coors: i'm honored to take on this assignment and with an awful lot of support.

i take exception to his because most of reading back to washington, d.c. was the obama administration or nancy pelosi. i do not intend to be in washington, d.c., i tend to be a proven job creator and i can bring some hope to the 23 million people in this country that were either underemployed or out of work. >> moderator: thank you both of you. weeks before the major party candidates for the discussion tonight. congressman ed perlmutter the democrat and joe coors, the republican. there are to march places in the face. doug campbell from the constitution party, and libertarian bailey. we are building online library of conversations with of a third-party and independent candidates. you can find them by going to

rmpbs.org/panorama and then looking for the colorado state of mind page. ahead of last night's second presidential debate. students that visited told us some of the issues most important to them in this campaign.

>> the most important issue in this debate for me is the economy playing such a key factor in all of our lives and in america. >> i'm sarah. the most important issue in the debate for me is the rights. i believe that everyone should have the right to get married no matter what stage they are part of. >> i am a freshman here and i would like both mitt romney and president of, to say what they are going to do to stop the war in congress. >> my name is tom at hofstra university the most important issue is the job market. i want to know if there is a job for me out there when i graduate. >> senator jon tester and republican congressman are competing in of the closest senate races in the country. the cook political report has it

as a tossup. this hourlong debate is courtesy of montana pds. >> moderator: good evening and welcome to tonight's u.s. senate debate sponsored by the billings gazette communications and montana state university killings. i am steve, editor of the gazette and moderator of tonight's forum. many thanks to the billings chancellor, director of university relations dan carver and many others for partnering with us and provide the perfect venue for this exchange of opinions and ideas between representative denny rehberg republican from billings and jon tester. three veteran montana reporters last tonight's questions. from left to right, mike denison is a reporter and a visit state bureau in helena. tom lutey a reporter and jackie

yamanaka of yellowstone public radio. the list on public radio and the northwestern broadcast system of broadcasting as well and the gazette is streaming live on billings gazette.com. our timekeeper this neck and a 20-year-old senior from the wings. he is majoring in accounting and also is a student body vice president. each candidate will have one minute to answer a question than the other candidate will have one minute to respond, then a 32nd revival will be about to beat each candidate will have two minutes for a closing statement. before we go to the questions, we all ask that you hold your applause until after the closing comment. interruptions for applause and hollering will add into the time allotted for each candidate's valuable responses. we are all here to listen to them, not to each other. please respect them by holding your applause until it has

ended. thank you. now to the questions, starting with senator tester from mike dennison he will have a minute to respond and representative rehberg will have a minute to comment and then senator tester will have 30 seconds for a final response. >> i assume that on november 6th you will vote for president obama. i would like to tell us why you support him and why his reelection and yours is good for montana and the country. tester: if you look with the commander-in-chief has done as far as taking care of osama bin laden, really in doing some things in the middle east to take care of the war on terrorism in a big way that's been very, very positive. the country was hemorrhaging 800,000 jobs a month. it is and where we want it to be but we are starting to see job growth in the country, and i think that that has been very

positive as far as i myself am concerned, i think phil loveless responsibility and accountability that i brought to washington, d.c. our in transparency and unmeasured. i was the first person to put my schedule online, first person to do an audit and carry bills that make washington, d.c. government like montana. montana government is very open and not only for the folks like you but the folks on the audience to access databases that tell people what's going on in washington, d.c.. we are 2,000 miles away and oftentimes access to the databases were letting folks know what is going on is critically important and i won't get into the infrastructure or veterans and my time is up. >> mr. rehberg, one minute. rehberg: there are two paths to be taken in the country. senator tester and obama have taken one path. he's loaded with obama 95% of the time.

what has that given us? the health care reform. it added more field people to the system. it gave us a failed stimulus. what does it do? the only shovel ready project that it really funded in a large sort of way was adding an additional trillion dollar debt on the middle class. ..

books that get kicked off by insurance because the bottom line is we have to hold insurance companies accountable. that's what we did. as there is a stennis package goes can we this year i think the shiloh row congressman actually provides an avenue to get to one of your developments. so the fact is that work that was done is critically important us are going to move forward. i hope this is the correct plan, or i will address it later on. >> moderator: tom lutey, question for mr. rehberg. >> after minister rehberg can you cut the ribbon on road projects that use stimulus

money. in february 2009 come you credited yourself for security $42.5 million from montana projects are not years consolidated appropriations bill according to your website. the very next day the 410 building dollars bill for wasteful spending that wasn't scrutinize close enough. you have mostly voted the party line and accuse your opponent of voting with barack obama 95% of the time, yet you have also said, i agree with the president when he says we need to roll up our sleeves and find workable solutions that put partisanship aside. that comment was made with the last democrat, brian schweizer, max baucus and jon tester to join you in fighting obama that montana for a seventh time in two years or you could talk about the opportunities and challenges facing our great day. rehberg: representative, why

should montana stress that you are the conservative enough suggest you are? if you think about the badge in america, we spend as much as 4.5 chewing dollars. the difficulty is we bring in 3 trillion spend 4.5. there's no reason we can't create an economic stimulus is truly going to stimulate the economy. other chilling dollars that was borrowed against the dad, 12 cents on the dollar went to something of the construction project geared the difficulty is the other 80s until i saw were two things that was years ending. if i go out of my ranch and do the new stock because $13,000, you better assume i can return up to 15,001-dollar, 500 or a superior expense. that's the problem to stimulus. it is pure expense. there were stimulus efforts within the stimulus plan, but the problem is they didn't create the jobs. it wasn't timely, wasn't targeted. it wasn't temporary. it didn't seem that the economy

the way it was intended and there are other ways to do it. he could've done utter rejection of corporate tax of 3525% predicted on the basis and in payroll tax on employers and employees for one year. that would've cost the same chilling to put money in the pockets of every small business in america. the florist, chiropractor come engineer, farmer, they didn't get that. this was not the way to do it. >> thank you. senator tester one minute. tester: yet come the recovery act. you want to talk about what he did? at a $500 million in tax relief for working families and small businesses. across the board, that's for the state of montana, by the way. as for the state of montana, 500 million bucks. admitted for emergency folks like policemen and firefighters and teachers can damage because states weren't equally as bad a shape. thankfully montana is governed by brian schweizer and he had to sit in better shape.

overall the states went to a shape as the federal government. finally, we talked about the courthouse, the shiloh road, but there were infrastructure projects all over the state. i talked to a worker building curbs and working on water systems in the projects are being ordered come he said i wouldn't have a job now is not for that. we released an 800,000 a month before the recovery act. after the recovery act was not flatten out and saw job creation. we were on the cusp of the financial meltdown. something had to be done. >> moderator: senator rehberg. rehberg: those are expenses. if you're going to smite the economy come you don't do it by element expenses forgive to build, grow, create jobs. how do you create jobs? by unleashing small businesses of montana and america. you don't go by piling more data. we are on the fourth year of the trillion dollars that come at deficits to die.

since he's been in a state under his doubled from a trillion to 16 trillion. we cannot continue down that same path. >> thank you. now i question from jackie yamanaka to senator tester. >> senator, this current section of congress has been dubbed as the most partisan, least productive in memory. and even with the looming fiscal cliff, and were talking about the end of the bush era tax cuts as well as the budget cuts, sequestration, members of congress can't come up with a solution. why then should montana's return you to the u.s. senate? aren't they just voting for more of the same for another six years? what are you going to do to it than your vision for montana? rehberg: thank you for the question. i will tell you that the press is reported correctly it is very partisan in washington d.c. for montana and within communities built by people working together, it is very

distressing. quite frankly, washington d.c. could learn a lot from us in montana. we were together, get things done. we put our differences aside. but your question was about me. i'll tell you why. i worked across the line time and time again, whether it is you get capital available for small businesses, whether i work with macs and send him a idaho. whether it's to make sure that banking regulations favor of america. i will continue to do that and continue to work people in an honest, fair way, they montanans do, talking about challenges out there and we will come together. the fact is there's been a group working on the deficit and that for some time now and i have confidence that after the election will come to an agreement. democrats and republicans, good ideas, both sides of the aisle. that's how this'll be sought for the fiscal class. >> moderator: representative

rehberg. >> i've done everything i possibly can to move it forward to writing them letters, treatment signing a discharge to blasted out of the committee to vote on the house floor. that's why oppose president bush. that's why voted against the mayan budget because i didn't think it protected medicare enough. i worked across the aisle. i help create the baby caucus coverage or the pro-democrat from connecticut for the specific purposes of looking at children from zero to three for discussion and education for early childhood development. i can work across the aisle. that is what i suggest you go with rocco, 95% of the time for me suggest you are backing your own party are backing the president. everybody in montana believes in that position and set alight. but ultimately on the decisions that matter most, on things like a failed health care reform, on a failed stimulus and on energy policy voting for cap-and-trade, my opponent has had with barack

obama, not back in his own party cannot shoot independence to build a more secure future for the people of montana. he stands by with barack obama. i say more the people of montana. >> moderator: senator tester. tester: the fact is that if you look at the record for the last 18 months, they have tried to morph into barack obama. barack obama doesn't want to see the xl pipeline built. i do. barack obama didn't see deals listed. rocco bywater wanted to see the bills, i voted against. the list goes on and on. i put montanans first in every decision i make is that is what is most important to me is taking montanans good ideas in washington d.c., converted to legislation and it passed. >> moderator: thank you. my question from mike dennison to denny rehberg. >> let's talk about medicare.

you criticize the affordable care act as you know any voted against the ryan budget and his medicare plan. so what is your medicare plan? i have heard much about it. rehberg: first welcome you don't begin they taken $716 billion out of medicare. 30 pian system. we have to do everything we can to make it stronger. by taking $716 billion of medicare come on it was for seniors to go under obamacare, which will work, but also makes it much more difficult for doctors and hospitals to provide the service for seniors. the reason i voted against the wind plans because it is a top-down idea. it didn't boil from the bottom up. it did not protect medicare recipients. my number one goal is to preserve and protect medicare for those on it. you don't do it by taking $716 billion out of medicare and hope he'll solve the issue or solve the problem. by paul ryan been selected as

the nominee has done exactly what it should do. over the course of the campaign, you'll hear more about medicare reform and ultimately i hope to bring the ideas for montanans back to washington rather than a d.c. centric top-down solution, which is what i thought the ryan proposal was and certainly what the obama plan is under president obama's health care reform. >> moderator: senator tester, one minute. tester: only in washington d.c., when you cut insurance companies and a lebanese waste, fraud and abuse, would that be called a bad day. the fact of the matter is there's not one benefit will be cut to medicare recipients. the fact of the matter is we have been reimbursing insurance companies and it has provided no benefits to our seniors. so it's time to stop the reimbursement or the sake of our seniors to make this program but for generations and generations to come.

the congressman doesn't like the affordable health care act or obamacare medicare money to continue to look for ways to make medicare stronger. it's a safety net has been around for generations for seniors and it's important. it works for seniors. we ought not be destroyed and quite frankly, you have not stepped forward and have to make medicare solvent for the future. >> moderator: representative rehberg. >> you don't take $716 billion. he said benefits are not going to be cut. that's not the issue. doctors and hospitals will not be fully and fairly reimbursed for seniors. so when president obama say you're not going to lose your insurance, nell, the problem of somebody may not be able to give you that insurance. the difficulty as the doctor may not be able to see you. we must put that back by repealing obamacare and by

putting the money back into medicare. we can make a stronger come and make it last longer and begin the real serious discussion of a bottom-up solution rather than burn from washington down. >> tom moody to senator tester. >> are frequently referred to as the only working farmer in the senate, yet on issues by farm groups come to you voted no. trade, should be noted important to montana because of the states 1 billion a dollar here is 85% of its product overseas. a cattle economy is dependent on foreign sales of u.s. beef. he proposes south korean free-trade agreement. koreans only about $189 million in nonfarm products and 2010. the state department of commerce and he voted against free-trade agreements and have also voted against free-trade agreement with colombia.

>> to trade agreements have to be fair and free. we do have tremendous opportunity, especially state like montana where we raise the best beef and livestock in the best grants in the world. but they have to be fair. we cannot allow other companies to dump their product on us at the expense of the folks in production of agriculture and that's what i thought the free-trade agreements would do exactly. i'm not opposed to trade at all. i think it is important we do have trade. it cannot be at our producers expense and i thought those were skewed towards the companies -- the countries that you mentioned. and that's why i oppose them. rehberg: toeing the party line. the democrats asked about against incoming votes against it. i traveled to south korea and learned why it's important for agriculture producers to open up trade to south korean voted for it. panama, colombia, it was sold to

us by then i traveled to panama to listen and learn about the trade that could be done with them. you know what's interesting about them with colombia and panama and south korea, which i voted for quite since that time was introduced our agricultural exports to those countries by 200%. i also traveled to australia a minor was not the best. so so i brought my republican party and i voted no. the same is true for central american free trade. it is going to hurt sugar producers right here in the valley and up in sydney. so should the independence and find out was the name the agriculture producers and small businesses in montana to support this trade practices rather than toeing the party line. they showed independents to of thought and those good for us. i didn't stand with my party. i stand with montanans.

>> moderator: senator tester, 30 seconds. tester: boosted with president obama on the street agreement. excuse me, i chose to do a search for montana's producers. what we are seeing now are prices where we can afford to structure a farm bill, were farmers and ranchers are not to do the government to get their check here they can get it from the marketplace. >> moderator: now i question from jackie yamanaka to representative rehberg. >> congressman, i'd like to go back to the claim that your opponent does the president barack obama 90% of the time and set up repeatedly. "the wall street journal" called you out on that earlier this year. it pointed to the national journal political rating system ecology more conservative than 81% of your colleagues in the house. congressional quarterly said he joined your gop colleagues more than 93% of the time each year except for two. how is that being a maverick

when clearly you are partisan. also, candy or can it be major not effective if your party? you've talked tonight about the failure to get the farm bill out of the house. why then should montanans send you an ad to the u.s. senate? >> there's a difference between federal barack obama 95% of the time and voted on what i believe is in the right business. the tax-cut agricultural producers, i heard for montana's because i traveled the whole 56 counties continually, that they wanted to trade practices for south korea, that they wanted to trade practices. we are losing ground with canada and colombia. they told me that and that's why i voted for those. by the same time, much to the party chagrin, i did in fact vote against central america free trade. i suggested it was the wrong idea. i am fighting for the farm bill.

i do not agree that leadership. i do everything i can to bring that bill out of committee and onto the house floor. how do they honor me within the republican size? they give me a chairmanship of one of the most important preparations of the subcommittees. why? because my fiscal conservatism and because i understand the human needs and listen and learn and try and help. i don't imprison obama 95% of the time. i stand with montanans 100% of the time. >> moderator: senator tester, one minute. tester: sounds like you stand with him much of the time. you're not the only cat who spent her recount in the state. last session is not her recount in the state. that's something you do. montanans expect it. it's nothing out of the ordinary. let's talk about the farm bill. one of the most jobs it has a farm bill. there's almost a three quarter about. authors the safety and give

security for people in this country. it's a bill that makes sense. it doesn't go any further. i would still be in session. i would still be in session, would not be. let's talk about the rhine budget because and support we talk about it. in his subcommittee, he took the ryan budget numbers in that city budget office. must be accountable to them. this talk about the decisions. >> moderator: representative rehberg, 30 seconds. rehberg: you agree and i agreed, but that's not the point. there have been livestock after they need job assistance and fire assistance. we passed a disastrous system side. and you couldn't get it through. you held hostage for a five-year

farm bill. i want a farm bill as well. we agree on that. if you listen to people eastern montana coming up to one by side navigation. we could've done it. to pass the house of representatives and he didn't have for blue-chip ability to get that bill through it and not u.k. politics i hostage. >> moderator: and now it's time for -- tester: donator 32nd -- >> moderator: now, versus 30 seconds. sorry, will is a rule. now it's time for each candidate to ask a question at the other. representative rehberg, what is your question? rehberg: you support president obama 95% of the time. if you listen to the people of montana, they did not want obamacare. they did not see how the is going to work. they do not think that the epa bureaucrats in washington should shut down the plan, so the question becomes coproducing president obama should be

reelected? tester: the point is this, you're running against me. this is the race. your not running against president obama. you could've done not, but you chose not to. but, there's funny differences between myself and barack obama and schneider in certain figure based on its similarities. the fact is if you go down the list, whether it's making sure that the bailouts don't happen, we set the standard and doing what montanans think is correct first and that's the bottom line. you can try to morph into barack obama because that's what he wants to run against. but the record of accomplishment. these are bills that i just voted for. these are bills sponsored, belsey carried and i do want to

talk about that farm bill just for a second. previously a city that to get that passed at the summit could remember the farm bill for $23 billion? address this and he wants cost taxpayers money. >> moderator: thank you, senator tester. your data set. mr. rehberg. rehberg: you listen to what he wanted to voted for a field stimulus coming out of her presence of health care reform they did not reform health care and you voted for cap-and-trade, which is nothing more than an energy tax. it's going to cost jobs in eastern montana. he supported the epa and regulations that cost 35 jobs, $10 million annually to the city of billings. it's going to increase your utility is cost as much as 25%. it's going to have to have a plan termination. that's not an independent voice. what i try to do is be an

independent voice for montanans by backing a party when necessary, but ultimately traveling to 56 counties to find out what the people of montana want you to do. that's why voted against the president's health care reform. it is necessary. we must. if you live defensive medicine coming haven't done a thing. you told your insurance premiums go down to $2500. they've gone up $2300. discuss every family of montana $5000 for your experiment supporting the president. >> moderator: senator tester, 30 seconds to wrap. tester: thanks, steve. every time jobs are lost it's bad deal. we are talking about right from the books for 20 years. we're talking about a company that made 1.6 billion in profit last year. the fact is they should invest in that plan. the problem is, congressman, you bring up stuff into it against the wall and hope it sticks.

i did not vote for cap-and-trade. whatever procedural motions to the energy policy and we need to have a debate about energy policy. to make sure it would work or not work. there's funny at times we need to debate about. we need to list off a litany of things, just pull them out of their eyes are set in the commercial, baloney. now, senator tester, is your turn to ask a question of representatives rehberg. tester, thank you, steve. taxpayer paid trips, trips to places like australia and south america and europe and south pacific. you've eaten and castles and on boats, bill bos engine bars and dealt with lobbyists. and i'm sure the lobbyists and

special interests got their money from this taxpayer paid trips. what exactly do the taxpayers of montana get? rehberg: every trip i've taken a stand for the benefit of the state of montana. i traveled to australia to learn about why they can make the endangered species act work and we can't do what it was not in the best interest of me to vote for the australian free trade. south korea, i learned about south korea free trade might was necessary to have the vote that i did. but i traveled to places -- i was honored in a bipartisan fashion to travel with mr. murtha, two democrats in the house to give the keynote speech at normandy, to honor our world war ii veterans and point the hawk at the presentation of a new memorial on their behalf. they want to talk about lobbyists, the recipient. in the database in washington d.c. the difference is i expect their information. $1.8 million in the last two

years from lobbyists and wall street. i listen to people. i don't turn around and take their cash while attacking them the other hand. >> moderator: senator tester, one minute. tester: is interesting from a guy who hit $25,000 should've reported that fail to be transparent, for guys taking tens of millions of dollars, which by the way he supports the democracy out there who's got commercials for the last year and a half turn to find me something i'm not. there's something you would point out. you're the one that was a lobbyist from a paid lobbyist. you were the one who told lobbyists that you depend on them to make your decisions. you are the guys at the revolving doors of the deal. byrd is a big deal. it is tough to point a finger and three are pointing right back at you. >> moderator: representative rehberg, 30 seconds to close.

rehberg: can make my decisions for me. everyone of us are misrepresented by some in washington d.c. that provides information. i am not so arrogant to believe that i know everything. but i'd have to travel 36 counties and get around the country about a little bit about nuclear waste and refinement. i went to france and traveled across france to learn the entire process because i'm on the committee that has something to do with that. i traveled around america. i went to georgia and alabama to learn about coal-fired generating plants from their perspective. so i've done everything i possibly can to educate myself, around america and around the world to ultimately make your decisions rather than going back to my farm of her weekend. >> moderator: thank you, congressman. and now i question from mike dennis into senator tester. >> senator tester, we talked about last night about what

you're against. on a talk about what your fork in the fiscal close to the deep spending cuts and tax increases at the end of the year coming out. what is your approach -- wiser approach better and wiser approach better than your opponent's approach? tester: look, the approaches got to be bipartisan. we've got to work together to solve this problem were talking the debt and deficit and fiscal cliff that comes up the first of the year. there is no doubt that if we don't work together we are dead in the water. there have been plenty of proposals out there that make sense for this country, big, broad-based proposals. i talked about many of them. there's simpson/bowles, domenici revlon, also with. those templates can be put together and it has to have everything in it and everything has to be addressed and people

need to work together. there's critical mass to get it done. when we talk about the sequestration and fiscal cliff, but with self imposed on us in a bipartisan way to get us to work together. it's easily fixed. all we have to do is work together. like i said in the beginning that's what montanans do naturally. we need to and from montana. >> moderator: representative rehberg, one minute. rehberg: first we need to repeal a bomb or care at nasa for sony to work on a bipartisan solution to the farm bill. we need to do as they travel around us people you're more than anything else this insurgency. we need to know what our taxes are going to be. i did everything i can to eliminate the death tax because of a third of our ranch, barns and corrals in june and i've had to rebuild from scratch on 1% borrowed money. we don't need regulation

continually dropping down. sequestration -- i voted against the super committee because it's a crazy idea to have people behind closed doors and saw the fiscal crisis of america. at the house of representatives is a super committee. it wasn't going to work in the first place. sequestration is happening because senator tester support a sequestration is super committee and is going to create a crisis at the end of this year. sequestration is solvable in mobile to do it. what's interesting is not only do they take $760 million out of medicare under sequestration another 2% is taken out of america. america cannot withstand a reduction in medicare. sequestration can happen, should not happen in the first place and i'll do everything i can to undo it. >> moderator: senator tester, 30 seconds to close. tester: listening to them talk and responsible for the drought in the midwest. here's the deal, you voted against sequestration in two years in the budget control act. he also voted to default this

country in debt commotion is about every economist in this country said if that would've happened but it happened immediately. the bottom line is that most are working together in washington d.c., were going to continue to have single digit approval rating and i'd be right there for everybody else in single digits. but we have a good nucleus of people back there that have worked together a nastier shoes critically important and cooler heads will come together and we'll get this problem solved in a way that works for a country in the short-term and long-term. ..

>> because of the recession and we are not turning the economy arrondissements as possible, i care so deeply about trying to change the direction that we are talking about these two avenues. the avenues of the president and my senator opponent in the position he has taken, and myself, who believes there is a different and better path, one that will create a better opportunity not just for my children and grandchildren but

my parents as well. >> there are $500 million in tax relief. what creates economy? demand. at 500 million going into the working families pockets. look, there is plenty that has been said about me from the beginning to the end. the last 18 months, we have had a continual immersion in it. one of the most interesting ones is the one that gave me the last count with my fingers. [laughter] on us, you know, last week i sent out a flier that had my face on the picture -- on the body of rick santorum, where it didn't take long to figure that out. [laughter] >> but the bottom line is this. i pride myself on taking montana back to washington dc and working with people. i don't care if they are democrats or republicans or

independents. it is too bad we did not have a libertarian on the stage tonight. i don't care if it's libertarian either. at the bottom line is that people work together in this campaign. to try to make this into something that it's not. the fact is that you get things done when you work across party lines. things get done in the middle. they don't get done with the fringes. >> if you want to talk about health advertising, you can talk about the fact that one other ad shows me as the grim reaper. it is not unique. in those that are attacking him. >> we talk about bipartisanship, we talk about leadership and getting things done. it is is illegal, but it doesn't seem to matter. we roll up our sleeves across the table and hand out the differences between the budget you know what is interesting to me? over the course of 2009 when they had single party rule, they

passed obamacare in the stimulus and an additional $1 billion of spending. that is $3 trillion that the appropriations committee never met about once. we didn't have a single input that is what we got with single party rule. we haven't had a budget out of the senate in over three years. >> moderator: now we have a question from jackie to senator jon tester. >> moderator: there are a bunch of loopholes, like mortgage interest or contributions to iras or four o. one kays to be pretax. thus cutting the individual tax. lawmakers often talk about closing loopholes. but it often means standing up to special interests and this includes the middle class.

do you favor closing loopholes? if so, specifically, which ones spewing the talked about income tax specifically. that's a great question. 300 billion put out in text earmarks. look, i will say what you just said. we can reduce some of those tax earmarks. it really is an opportunity, too. i think it is critically important for housing industry and i think it is important economic driver. i know there are things and there are text earmarks that have been on the books to the

big oil companies are not talking about the tangible drilling costs, i'm talking about tax breaks that have been since 1913 in effect since this began. on the other side of the coin, those making a difference, let's look at those. let's take a look at them for what helps drive our economy. if you take a look -- my time is up. >> moderator: senator denny rehberg, you have one minute. rehberg: unlike my opponent, i do not support simpson-bowles. it seems like we never get the spending cuts. we always get the tax increases. what is simpson-bowles? it increases gas tax by 15 cents. it eliminates the home mortgage deduction. it was a promise made when he took out a mortgage and now you

don't know the value of your home. it could be in relation to what you pay for your taxes. i believe in a flat tax. ultimately, we can move towards the flat tax. we need a tax system that is easily done and understood and i would begin by helping the senior citizens with their income taxes for the purposes of making it simpler for them. but i have to tell you, people support reform as long as it doesn't change anything. it will be difficult work towards tax reform. i am willing to do that. i think ultimately, that is the best way to go. >> moderator: senator jon tester? tester: do those charitable deductions maintained when you have the flat tax? i will say something that we actually agree on. if we play politics with this, we will never get anywhere. we have to work together on this to reform our tax structure in this country. if we put our heads together, we can get rid of the deductions

that make no sense whatsoever. and they don't drive our economy. they really help pay down our national debt. >> moderator: now a question for senator denny rehberg. >> as you know, the current tax is not apply to any inheritance income less than $10 million. also, estate planning and the mounting federal debt. why does it a priority for you to cut the income taxes on the folks inheriting more than $10 million? >> first of all, i would record numbers. it goes back $2 million in the back of the 55%. but if you are going to try to enrich yourself on this coming or going to have the opportunity to pay your fair share. you are either going to pay a capital gains tax or income tax. one of the federal government believes is necessary to come into the ability of the family

to put a business together, a working business that generates revenue -- tax revenue for the public officials. why do they feel it is necessary. it is an insidious tax that hurts small business. it doesn't matter if it is 10% or 55%. it is not necessary it is not right and it should be eliminated. >> moderator: senator jon tester. tester: if you take a look at the fiscal condition that we have in this country, my choices to make sure that we have this 5 million per person, 10 million per couple, 35% tax rate. we have a bill to do that so doesn't talk back. what is really important with the inheritance tax and the death tax is that it is made permanent. it has bounced all over the place. it's 5 million the next it's 2.5 million the next, bouncing all over, you cannot plan for that.

if it is made permanent, 5 million and 10, million, small businesses can plan for it, they can buy life insurance, and it makes sense for them to do it. but it has to be made permanent. there is a sweet spot that exams almost every other farm and ranch in the state. >> representative denny rehberg? rehberg: it is a spending problem. he is suggesting that we need to continue a tax on the death of loved one. to be a government that is out of control. i believe the death tax should be zero. people don't know whether taxes what their taxes are going to be. they don't know the effects of

obamacare on them. is it going to cost them more to provide health insurance for their employee? is the employee going to lose their health care coverage from their employer? the whole uncertainty is created by this fiscal cliff because they have backed us into a spending corner that is going to be so hard dig our way out of. >> moderator: your time is up. a question to senator jon tester in april 2011, you move the wolf away from the federal endangered species list. the writer banned the public from challenging wolf delisting. the move was decried by environmentalists as a self-interested to supplant the endangered species act. some feared it open the door for other lawmakers to a politically target animals in their state. what do you tell montana who

voted for you in 2006, that oppose your act, the actions to delisting wolves? tester: there is a recovery effort on wolves. we ought to be doing back flips over that. they are recovered. now we need to manage them. they no longer need to be on the endangered species list. let's manage them like we manage everything else out there. it took a lot of work to get this done. there were a lot of folks out there. the administration being warned that it really didn't want to see this happen. but we worked together with folks on both sides of the aisle. we worked with conservationists who understood and we worked with folks in the livestock industry and recreational hunters out there, and this was the right thing to do. it is time to make decisions, but you need to go back and monitor those decisions. it really goes back to jackie's question on tax earmarks. we ought to go back and monitor and see which ones are not doing

right. the wolves are on the endangered species list and they were covered. we got that done by working with a republican by the name of mike simpson in idaho. >> moderator: senator denny rehberg, you have one minute. rehberg: this is a perfect example of what is wrong with the endangered species act. i have worked to reform endangered species act. so we would know what the goalpost was and we would have finality and we would know when we recover the species, it would be idealistic. this is not a decision made by the obama administration. to change this and make this necessary. it was a judge in missoula who changed the future. what we need is an endangered species reform act. you wouldn't have to do this if it was working. it is not working for the betterment of the endangered species. there is nobody in this room that want to endanger a species that once the species to

disappear from the face of the earth. that is not the point. the point is that we need finality uncertainty. we need to work together. we need to turn the management back over to the state. the solution and compromise is the stopgap. it allows the u.s. fish and wildlife service to have an influence over the president of the united states. it should be delisted in the management should be sent back to the state as we have proposed to my legislation. >> moderator: senator jon tester, you have 30 seconds. tester: the problem is a didn't make it out of the house. it's still sitting there. we have to get it passed with bipartisan support. it was done after talking with sportsmen and livestock producers and conservationists across the board. it was the right thing to do for the wolves and for montana. we got it done. >> moderator: now a question from jackie to representative denny rehberg. >> moderator: i can't leave the topic of taxes. the argument of raising taxes on

wealthy is going to hurt the job creators. according to the montana department of revenue, just under 1% of households have three threshold of $250,000 per year income. we cut the top marginal tax rate and that went into effect in 2005. but economists can find no evidence that this tax cut has led to more jobs. jobs during the 1950s and 1960s when the marginal tax rates were hurt higher than they were today. so where are the job creators as the result of tax cuts for the wealthy? tester: illogically tells you that there will be more in the economy. to try and build a more secure future in our economy. why can't the government tightened its belt like everyone in the audience wants not to do?

we are not going to be taking every dime out of the economy come you are supposed what it began and circulate and grow and create the jobs necessary to build a future. you cannot continue to tax your way into prosperity and spent a range of prosperity. that is a different path that i have. i don't believe the government is the solution makes our business in solution. if you would solution. if you were just solution. if you were just a government offer vaccine delivery mainstreet and deliberate mainstreet by reducing the tax burden, by reducing the regulatory burden, you can come in fact, have more people hired, keep those that already have jobs, and expand our economy. you don't do it by raising taxes during a recession. >> the fact is if you want to talk about job creation and what creates jobs, you're right or it's the small businesses. it's not the multimillionaires like yourself. it is the small business people. and they need to get the

reduction. the working families out there need to get the reduction as well. working families are the folks out there that create the demand that caused more manufacturing and more autonomy. quite honestly, we're not talking about not tightening our belts. they will be tightened in a big way. the fact is that the folks that are making millions and millions of dollars out to be contributing to this. >> moderator: senator denny rehberg, you have 30 seconds. rehberg: they want to feed the beast. all they want to do is add more money. i can solve the fiscal crisis. i have legislation that will cut $1.4 trillion over the next 10 years.

what are the entitlements? expansion to medicaid and premium subsidies. we have social purity and medicare that is going broke in this country and we are setting up and creating two new entitlements and the president's health care reform. do the people of montana know that? does that make any common sense that you would create two new entitlements at a time when you can afford it now? >> moderator: now, a question from mike to senator jon tester jon. tester: you are strongly supported by environmentalists. and congressman denny rehberg from your supported by oil and gas people. why should we vote for you, when we look another contrast. tester: i don't ask people to jump. the fact is if you look at the xl pipeline, there is a lot of conservation. i want to see the xl pipeline bill. the fact is is that we talk a little bit about regulation here

tonight. there needs to be a level of regulation out there. sometimes, the fact is we have to do what is right for montana in this country and that is exactly what i do. my record has proven on that. whether it is wolves, it is another issue. rehberg: $1.8 million last two years. i guess i would ask you, who produces and provides more jobs in the state of montana? the oil and gas industry or wall street? the oil and gas industry. they support me because they know we are going to build that future for montana, comes out it

comes out of the oil, gas, and coal fields of montana to be redistributed to some of the areas that are strongly supporting him the question becomes is there for balance? i clearly understand the need economic development there is a clear understanding that there is going to be intensive uses. and then you are also going to protect areas where you want to protect wildlife, but where you need to make a living. that is where the extreme environmentalists sometimes don't understand. but those of us need to make a living with. this will all stand with the oil, gas, and coal industries and the people of montana that are working in those industries. >> moderator: senator jon tester, you have 30 seconds. tester: i put [inaudible]

and you can pull this stuff out of her and threw it around, but it just doesn't -- it doesn't just doesn't meet the test of truthfulness. we need to have everything. agriculture, oil and gas, natural resources. that's why i have a jobs immigration bill that is in the house. we can put people to work. cutting trees and have a sister supply of timber. a recreation economy is $3 billion a year. to make sure that we have opportunities for recreational there. don't tell me it can be just one industry. it has to be a whole bunch of industries out there. >> moderator: now we have run out of time for questions. we will give each candidate time for a closing statement about their campaign to be on canada's representative in the u.s. senate. jon tester will start out and denny rehberg will have the final word. tester: i want to thank everybody who watching this and

listening to this on the radio. how many of these people in the audience are from the city of billings? thank you very much. congressman denny rehberg does not represent each and everyone of you. i want until you something, please. i have talked about montana a lot tonight. people working together. the first thing you do when firefighters come and you have a grasp either and they were in the bushes and they put their butts on the line. that's not working together in building the state of montana or moving the community forward. it has been a pleasure for the last six years to be able to represent the great state of montana. people like tommy parker, a veteran of the afghanistan war. in fact, she is still in the military. he lost both legs in the best part of his left hand.

he wants to go forward. those people -- those people give me the driver for this job. and a community health center that would've been there at the the other congressmen would've gotten his way, a woman who got a critical health screening at the cotter cancer in time. we have a great record of what we have done last six years. we are able to work across party lines. there are issues of women's health care you are going to vote on november 6, i hope everyone does, i would appreciate your vote. >> moderator: and now denny rehberg. rehberg: i have traveled over

montana and nobody has brought up the fire except for you, sir. what they talk about is the irresponsible decision-making that goes along with supporting president obama 97% of the time. things like obamacare and things like build stimulus. and the people at billings, it is the loss of the plant that shuts down. you lose 35 jobs and $10 million per year to your schools and your government at the local level. that is the real cost of what his policies are bringing by supporting bureaucrats in washington. you have to pass in candidates, we are going to begin voting on the next united states senate tomorrow. one neighbor at a time. one is a government solution. leaving the government can bring you a job. and me, i believe we can revitalize and re-energize and redo and renew the enthusiasm for america and montana. if we could just get government

out of our way. government is creating the uncertainty. in our regulatory policy. it is not just small businesses that are going to turn this economy around. it is those who work for those businesses who are also going to help us renew the enthusiasm of creating a more secure future and a better opportunity for ourselves and our children and our businesses. a look people in the eye and i don't these statistics. there are 56 counties with 56 unique personalities. fifty-six cultures and histories and their own desire for their own future. and liberty county, it might be agriculture. in lincoln county, it might be timber. in eastern montana, it might be gas and coal. but i want to get government out of the way and i want people have the opportunities -- the same opportunities that we had. the opportunities that her parents had.

i want to return that enthusiasm to america and montana and to billings into yellowstone, building more secure future is by getting government out of the way. >> moderator: thank you and god bless you all. [applause] [cheers] >> moderator: that wraps up the forum. many thanks to these two candidates for stepping forward. for offering their leadership skills good night. >> all this month and through election day, we will have coverage from around the country. up next, the indiana governors debate his life. in our live coverage continues tomorrow on c-span. at 4:00 p.m. eastern, the connecticut debate between chris murphy and linda mcmahon. live coverage from hartford, connecticut. at 7:00 p.m. eastern, the senate

debate featuring tim kaine and george allen. live coverage from virginia tech university. and tomorrow night, the wisconsin senate debate with between the candidates there. they are competing for the seat of retiring senator herb kohl. >> we have come too far to turn back now. the american people have worked too hard in the last thing we can afford to do right now is to go back to the very same policies that got us into this mess in the first place. i cannot allow that to happen. i will not allow to happen. that is why i am running for a second term as president of the united states. >> metaclasses getting middle class is getting crushed and squeezed. incomes are down. the prices are.

how prices are up. it is really tough being middle class, even if you have a job in america. we are going to go to work to create more jobs and more take-home pay. that is our passion and that is why we are in this race. we need a strong america so that we can provide for their families. >> lock and engage as president obama and mitt romney meet in their final debate moderated by bob schieffer of cbs in boca raton, florida. the debate preview starts at 7:00 p.m. eastern, followed by the debate at 9:00 p.m. your reaction at 10:30 p.m. all life on c-span, c-span radio, and online at c-span.org. >> it has been there since 1947, which is the founding year of the country. it showed films from all over the world. from england and hollywood and

india. to me, it symbolized the openness of the country in in spite of all the violence in trouble that people have suffered over the last many decades in pakistan. during one of the protests that insulted the profit mohammad. i don't really see that as a protest against the west. i don't see that as a protest against the united states, even though avatar is one of the movies that you could've gone to see at the theater. you had islamist activists that did not like these things for decades. we before this prophet muhammed

was involved. there were teenagers involved, there was those that went on to a snack bar on the way to burn down a movie a movie theater and distorted -- i argue in this piece that what they are really attacking is the nature of their own country, which perhaps they do not understand whom i to say what your country is about. but i do know from having studied history and listened to pakistanis themselves, that it is an incredibly diverse place. it was born as an even more diverse place than what it is today. lots of different cultures. lots of different traditions. lots of different ways to live. that movie theaters symbolized pakistan, and that is what people burned when they set it on fire. more with steve and his book tran-fives on c-span q&a. you are watching c-span2 at politics and public affairs weekdays featuring live coverage of the u.s. senate.

on weeknights, watch key public policy events and the latest nonfiction authors and books on booktv. you can get our schedules at our websites and you can join in the conversation on social media sites. >> now the indiana debate with mike pence, john gregg, and rupert boneham. john gregg is the former indiana house majority leader and rupert boneham was a contestant on a reality show, survivor. it just started a moment ago. >> it will take a page from the historic debate and respond to each other in tonight's debate. tonight's broadcast is being carried throughout the state on radio and television and lie

bloodstreams. keeping with the indiana debate commission's mission of putting voters first, citizens will ask many of the questions tonight. either in person or via e-mail questions, but i will ask most on their behalf. each candidate will have one minute to answer the questions. midway through tonight's program, as we did last week, we will follow the lincoln and douglas format that was made famous in 1858. after the candidates take part in the questions, we will return to the debaters. we will end with a question from each candidate who has 90 seconds for closing statement. our first round of questions will feature questions on the physical conditions of the state of indiana. now, that describes the format. the candidates have been advised of the rules. let me introduce the candidates to you now as they make their opening statements of one minute. they are in answering order and

we begin with libertarian rupert boneham. boneham: thank you to the indiana debate commission for hosting this debate. thank you to everyone in attendance and everyone at home. ain't you. i grew up here and have been here for the last 25 plus years in indianapolis. years ago in 1991, started i started my first nonprofit company. i have since created many nonprofits for myself and for others. i have helped hundreds of people go back to work, get themselves that living in a career that they have wanted for so long. i am running not as a career politician, but as a small business owner. as a community advocate. is that person that wants to stand up and help bring that

change. >> moderator: thank you mr. rupert boneham. mr. mike pence. pence: thank you to all of the leaders and to my fellow aspirants for the office. it is a particular joy to be on the campus of the university of notre dame. the six and zero fighting irish. getting ready to make it seven and zero. i was making my way down to the locker room. it was empty, so i wasn't able to give any advice to the team, but i lived out a fantasy. you know, i am running for governor of indiana because i love this state and because i have a plan. i have a plan to take indiana from good to great. this is no ordinary time in the life of our state. we have made extraordinary progress in the last eight years. we have become the fiscal envy of the country, we have performed government and our schools and the workplace. but now i think we can build on ways that will create great jobs and great schools, strong

families, and i look forward to talking to you all about that bentonite. >> moderator: thank you, mr. mike pence. mr. john gregg. gregg: ronald reagan said the scariest words in the english language were hello, i am from washington, and i'm here to help. washington politicians like congressman john mike pence have fancy slogans like roadmap and so forth. the one thing all hoosiers can agree on that congress has broken his this. tonight, i ask you passed the party label. i have passed a balanced budget for indiana. when i was speaker of the house, cut taxes, increased spending for education, and did so in a bipartisan way. as governor, i will honor the truce on social issues and focus on creating jobs. together, we will make indiana

work. the hoosier way, not the washington weight. >> moderator: thank you, mr. john gregg. now, we will begin with their questions. our question is from robert. he is a life safety codes specialist. mr. rupert boneham coming of the first response. boneham: >> moderator: my question is what we can be due to address the state retirement fund shortage. recent news articles said that the state will have to fund 1 billion-dollar deficit of tax rates within the next 10 years if this is an adequately non-addressed issue. boneham: when we are dealing with people when we come into a program and we are cutting services and retirement benefits, i really have to say

that i want to be able to show how we will expose some of our problems. how we will show where the dollars are in the site is a community when we have to do some cutting. i would like to empower those of us that i've have worked that 30 years to get that retirement and make sure it is there. we have to take care of our employees. those who have been taking care of us. >> moderator: enqueue. mr. mike pence reign. pence: thank you, robert for the question. we need to keep our promises. two people that have served indiana. public employees, teachers and retirement officials and to those that have worn the uniform. people that run and when others run out. we are going to keep those promises. the good news is because of the fiscal health of our state. we actually are reporting the

largest budget surplus in our state history, and because of sound fiscal management, while we have challenges in our public pensions, they pale in comparison to the challenges of other states. let me just assure you as i have the privilege of being a governor of the state of indiana, we will preserve the fiscal health of our state. we will keep our promises that serve well and so courageously. we will look for opportunities to bring tax relief. >> moderator: thank you mr. mike pence. mr. john gregg? gregg: a lot of people in indiana have been talking about our budget surplus. as you correctly pointed out, we over a billion and a half .

the truth is we don't know how much is paid into the system. but we have to continue whittling that down, and we do that by growing the economy. by focusing in areas where we have growth opportunities to create jobs and advanced manufacturing, logistics, life sciences, and energy. and if we focus on growing our economy, and we will be able to see additional funds come in and we can put additional funds to our debt that we have in indiana. the funds will be solvent, and that is a priority. >> moderator: thank you, mr. john gregg. we will give 30 seconds to everyone for rebuttal. boneham: standing up in the state in making sure that state employees are taken care of. when i see an administration that does not look at cutting

the administration, but looks at cutting benefits, we have to look at where our dollars are. we want to make sure we help them. >> moderator: okay, thank you mr. rupert boneham. mr. mike pence? pence: let me speak on his last point. i truly believe the pathway forward in facing the challenge of our public pension is growth. that is why at the centerpiece of my roadmap, is the plan to strengthen our budget reserves, keep our balance sheets strong, and to cut taxes across the board. when you lower the personal income tax is coming by 10%, lowering taxes on 90% of our business enterprises. john is right about that. growth is the answer.

>> moderator: okay. thank you. john gregg? gregg: i am the only candidate that has bounced bipartisan budget. i have cut taxes and i understand the state agency, and this is important as we move forward in this critical time. and if we work together, we can do this. >> moderator: thank you john gregg. now we will go to our western number two. our first response will be from mr. mike pence. >> moderator: thank you. in 2010, governor daniels cut spending in order to balance the budget. higher education took a $150 million hit. where does it state support for higher education rank in your

spending priorities? is such spending a necessary investment in indiana's future? pence: thank you for your question and your work in the classroom. i know how hard your job is. public education is an enormous thing on the part of the state of indiana. less than a third of our kids to go to public universities finished her for your university degrees in four years. the university of notre dame, about 90% of the students would start you on this campus will finish their four year degree on their four years. that is a tremendous part on the manner of the kids with student loans and debt, and frankly, it

is resulting in a burden on our university as well. we need to encourage our kids to finish on time and get a funding formula for on-time completion. >> moderator: thank you, sir. mr. john gregg? gregg: i had the pleasure of serving in 2003 and 2004, and i know how important education is. i'm the first person like him in a college college education. our budget in indiana, where we talk about a proposed surplus, gives us $600 million in cuts of k-12 and $300 million for university. we did not grow our economy and create a surplus. we cut spending. and we cut it with public education and our universities. all the jobs in the world don't mean anything unless we stand by

them. that is why every dollar that we put in prekindergarten will save us of dollars in the future. and we need to make programs available for colleges. my opponent, they talk about affordability. but they vote against programs. >> moderator: thank you john gregg. mr. rupert boneham? boneham: my father taught for 30 years. my mother was a chemistry teacher. i believe in teaching of life for years. figuring out how we can make school more affordable. without figuring out how we can streamline and make sure that any of our students in indiana that are able to go and pass the entrance test can go to indiana for it. being able to bring you to our

college first-year college classes so we don't have so many students taking those remedial classes when they are in the first year. i want to be able to work with our colleges in our state, to bring that 21st century and to be able to use what we have to try and help. >> moderator: thank you, rupert boneham. indiana has lived within our means and we stand out across the country for doing that. but now we have a record budget surplus and we need to make choices. support doesn't have to come from taxpayers. okay. and from tuition. i have a proposal to make real collaboration happen between private sector in the area of life sciences and like the

university of notre dame, purdue, and indiana university. it is friendly with a have been doing at stanford and i think that people here at the university of notre dame would like to do that by creating and applying research enterprise and investment. >> moderator: thank you very much. mr. john gregg? gregg: we need to focus on creating jobs and not social issues. we need to grow the middle class. you have to show up everyday. you can have that 86% of remote if you're going to be governor -- you have to work everyday. >> moderator: thank you, mr. john gregg, mr. rupert boneham? boneham: i want to say that the budget cuts were not because of

shortcomings on our dollars, they were because we had misplaced dollars and then seemed to find them again. we would not have to be cutting budgets and have the money so the bank. >> moderator: our next question will be about the indiana star and according to the star, they have no money left to pay for the assessment from blooming and 10 to indianapolis. where would you find money to

complete the project? mr. john gregg? gregg: i have a plan. absolutely. the plan for roads, bridges, rails, maritime ports and airports. what we do is take existing funds the state of indiana has and we leverage those and we raised $3.5 billion. it will create 97,000 good paying jobs. you know, architects from ball state. when we do that, we will be selling any assets. we won't be touching the state surplus. it will also be u.s. 31 and also the cruiser highway. we have a plan in this plan is a long-term solution to a problem that we, in indiana, pat. if given the chance, we will create 97,000 jobs and raise $3.5 billion without touching the state surplus.

>> moderator: thank you mr. john gregg. my response will be from mr. rupert boneham. boneham: va 69 corridor. we are doing the project and where the money go? where do we not don't have enough to finish the project. bloomington -- 37 is going to struggle. common sense to solving our problems. we are creating i-69 with the

dollars we have to generate. we need to spend them wisely. >> moderator: thank you, mr. john rupert boneham. mr. mike pence? pence: i am committed to finishing it. leadership is historic and we need to finish the job. we are also going to finish 31 from indianapolis to south bend. we are going to fight to make sure that those in indiana get their dollars back. working in a bipartisan way, with republicans and democrats to get the highway roads done. in terms of our tax dollars going to washington dc, we are proud of it. we also have to fight to get more control over the federal

dollars. they got about 20% of the cost. if we go to washington dc and say, where our tax dollars, we will have another $100 million to spend according to estimates. we can do this. we are just going to have to fight for those being committed. >> moderator: we are going to begin a new segment right now. we did not have any rebuttals for anybody. each candidate gets to make a statement and the other two can rebut that statement. the woman made the original statement of the opportunity to

bring the subject to a close. then we move onto the next opening statement. we begin with mr. rupert boneham. your one minute opening statement, please. boneham: we just had, and it seems so timely, we have brought this up at the last debate. yes, i believe when you break the law, you should be punished. of course, you should be punished if you hurt someone. i have worked at protecting us for years.

we need to create in our detention centers the solution for our exploding population in the detention centers. we need to not just put them out on the street. >> moderator: mr. john gregg? gregg: i want to commend you for raising this issue. in my series of public service over the last 12 years, i have worked with leaders in both parties to try to address the crisis. in our capital city, we have over 4000 inmates the return from prison in indianapolis this year and within a few short years, 60% will be in jail.

i believe two things about this need to be done in indiana. i want indiana to be the worst place in the united states commit a serious crime. but i i want to be the best place in america, after you have done your time, to get a second chance. to actually pursue an honest living. that is being interrupted right now. as a result of that, we see this cycle of criminality that happens. every person is responsible for the choices that they make. as rupert just said, people need to be held accountable. held accountable for decisions they make. we can build on incarceration programs to but also, we can work with businesses small and large. men and women coming out of bad choices.

coming out of time in prison, the pathway to leave honest and productive lives. >> moderator: thank you mr. mike pence. mr. john gregg? gregg: i love this state. this is an important election. and there is a lot at stake. there is a real contracts between those running for office. grouper, i appreciate you and what you said. like most issues, i believe that all people ought to be safe in their homes and in school and in the workplace. when i was in the legislature, i supported and carried legislation that was tough on crime. everything from changing and focusing more attention on domestic violence and increasing the penalties on driving while under the influence of alcohol. one of the things that we also

did when i was president, we created a program, a four year program to train people for homeland security. this is training law enforcement officials of the next generation. fire investigators, police officers, conservation officers, these folks funneling into a four year program where they will protect them work for us. when we do this is to grow our economy and go back to our roots in agriculture and taking advantage of that. look at how we can improve advanced manufacturing and how we can improve the products and jobs in indiana as well as our geographical locations, whether it is the south shore that runs through this area or a the ohio river down by me. such opportunity, those earnings, and energy -- we are

just getting started, but we have to work together in a bipartisan fashion. i have to do that and i will keep doing that. >> moderator: thank you mr. john gregg. now, mr. rupert boneham. boneham: are we going to continue to lock up every person, no matter how petty the law is? that is, is it hurting themselves or others? are we going to let our government build in other states facilities? are we going to pick out another struggling economy and put another prisoner? i hope not. workers, business owners -- when the lock everybody up and stamp

a felony on their heads for hurting hurting themselves, they struggled for the rest of their lives. we have beat every program out there that the government has created. i can do that for our state. i want to bring those reentry into society back to us. >> moderator: our second round begins with mr. mike pence. one minute, please. pence: thank you. when governor mitch daniels took office, we had a deficit of $800 million. local governing units, schools, public universities, in eight short years, we have become fiscally responsible. we have balanced budgets and cut business taxes. we have reformed government services. we have brought the energy and efficiency to the private sector

in many goods in state government. and i have a plan to continue to do that. in my roadmap, we talk about actually continuing the same management performance-based techniques the demonstration has begun. stressing our reserves to historic highs of 12.5%. and also using the additional budget surplus. i would like to hear from my opponents. ..

you voted five times to increase the deficit up to a total of $200 billion roadmap slogan i love. but in indiana, we pay us to go pick that it's not the washington d.c. way. he talked about cutting taxes, clean across the board, but she's never said how you're going to pay for it. it's got to be paid for, congressman. you know that. that's a washington way. cut now, pay later. we can't do that. this is indiana our constitution requires their budget be balanced. the balance indiana's budget in a bipartisan fashion. i know from having been in the legislature away to billion dollar surplus after the end of the session in 2011 because of the attack on americans to 9/11 the economy that leaned dollars

was gone. we can't spend that surplus about a way of replacing it. and congressmen coming your way span now and worry how to replace it later is not a solution. in a gregg, we pass a go. we've got a ways to pay for each and every tax cut that we have proposed. that is the indiana way, not the washington way. for those of you north of u.s. 40 about washington is watching, but that's the way i talk. thank you. trim for thank you, mr. gregg. mr. boneham, two minutes. pence: we watched her governor's done a fine job centralize our government, take power away from our trustees, communities and put that power into offices in indianapolis.

on paper it looks like it should save money. it is adding layers of administration. we need to decentralize our government, close those offices down and do not list, but the power back into the community. the way that we grow our state is by empowering our counties. again, if we had the tax collection for business tax, personal attacks on a county level, and let the counties take their portion out and push the rest of, the counties would have their budget. they would know the exact amount of dollars they have for next year. they would be saving the interest they pay on borrowing money to create their services and on the other hand would be collect and interest on the money that they are saving for next year's budget.

if we want to strengthen our state, we have to start at the ground level. our counties know what they need. i have been running programs for 20 plus years that have zero administration, that costs $0 to the public sector. but just to give back. being able to show order with code enforcement or program. the way that we save our future and save our budget is by funding from a ground-level and pushing it up. train for thank you very much, mr. boneham. mr. pence, and you have a minute to wrap a. pence: welcome i think my opponents are taking a swing, but i've got to tell you, john, cutting is not the washington

way, but it's my way. from the time i arrived in washington d.c. 12 years ago i thought runaway spending by both political parties. when the president of my own party came and wanted to go entitlements, this wall street bailout for $700 billion. i led the fight. i stood for fiscal discipline and reform. but i got called in the hardest working members in congress. the truth of the matter is facts are stubborn things. in five out of six of the receiver speaker of the house, indiana ran a deficit in the tens of millions of dollars. a friend which element, and literature plans for more spending and more tax-cut. it looks like were heading for the same path of red ink again. indian has to make an importance involving fiscal integrity for giving tax with the hoosiers and looking for ways to fund priorities we need to fund to continue to go or stay into the

future. >> moderator: now we begin from three with mr. gregg. you have one minute. gregg: thank you, john. as governor, i will draw my ex. it's, business, education and bipartisanship and i will focus on tax-cut targeted. i'll work on roads, bridges and rail and we will work on early childhood education. our tax-cut proposal had a way to pay for targeted towards indiana headquartered businesses from the local mom-and-pop all the all the way to eli lilly. but it also applies to those manufacturers like chrysler and gm. so it frees up capital to create jobs in indiana. as governor i'll be concerned about main street, not wall street. again, our roads plan will allow us to use existing funds and leverage three and a half alien dollars, create 97,000 good paying jobs. we're not going to sell any

assets, no surplus will be touched and will finish u.s. 31 and 69. as a former president again seems university, will spend and develop a pre-character program is every dollar spent now means seven saved in the future. transfer thank you, mr. gregg. mr. boneham, two minutes. boneham: i have to say also created and ran many companies. i've met many payrolls, created million-dollar companies. being able to show that when we give that same sense of help, then same help to small businesses that predicted that voice. what i'm talking about is the tax deferments, the giving of corporate dollars to one individual, one company over every other company in the community. fair and level playing field.

when i hopefully become governor, we will create a fair and level playing field. every business in indiana will pay the same tax rate from the same business taxes. and i am proposing we take that down to a 3% rate. in indiana in 2007, 84.6% of all businesses in indiana were small businesses with less than 20 employees, employing 634th send hoosiers. and then 2008 have been deadly struggle. if we are going to create some kind of business initiative program, let's create the business initiative for the small business, those 20 and under employees. instead of looking at how we give tax abatements to the biggest of the big boys come out of our economy by bringing big distances than an give them away, give tax dollars away, we

show how we started building indiana one company, one family, one person at a time. we start working. these common sense would create a fair and level playing field. the reason i'm running for governor as i want to fight or all of us and create a level playing field. transfer thank you a mr. boneham. mr. pence. pence: this is an extraordinary exciting time because of the leadership we've had in the last eight years. indiana is the fiscal country. we have a record budget surplus and we've advanced education reform exciting opportunities to underprivileged kids were generously than any other state in the united states and they're just starting to take hold. we've managed to reform or bureaucracy in countless ways. i mean, just think about the bmv and how much that is change. there's been a lot of other changes as well.

of course we recognize the right of every hoosier to work under the terms and conditions of their own choosing. i think the opportunity right now is to build on that progress. i think there's actually a common opinion here between me and my opponents, but just keep in indiana on the same path we are on is not good enough. they are running to just keep it going. my idea to build an even better indiana is building a roadmap on a couple basic ideas. number one come you preserve the fiscal health of the state. business has grown indiana and invest in indiana if they know they have a strong balance sheet. secondly, after you've made sure you've got enough in the bank come you got strong balance sheet, then to me it is not about helping the big guys, not the small guys come in a targeted cuts. i want to cut taxes across-the-board for every hoosier in the city and on the farm by 10%. when we do that, we'll do a couple things.

every average hoosier look at a couple hundred dollars in their pocket. or two-year period of time, $500 million to the state treasury into the economy. secondly, the successor to cut taxes on small businesses because most file their taxes as individuals and will pass a 10% tax cut coming years the best news, indian will be the lowest taxed state in the u.s. senate everything else, would not be a great thing to put on the billboard facing straight up to michigan from your insane come on our way. verse jobs and opportunities in indiana. >> thank you very much, mr. pence. mr. gregg, one minutes rappa said. >> congressmen, if you're one of the hardest working members of congress, having never passed a bill in 12 years for having been a leader in your own party, missed 86% of your votes, no wonder it's broken, mike. and i heard you last time and

this time when you say you are one of the hardest working. i looked up that article and that is you quoting yourself saying you are one of the hardest working. well, you know, congressman, you've got time to rebut that. the truth is in 2006 and two does make him the staff in congress voted she wanted the bigger show horses in congress. this race is about meet the workers are show worse than the candid no more than you show up anywhere, you wouldn't even be a show horse. about be done to being a one trick pony. >> thank you, mr. gregg or that finishes the lincoln douglas segment and so we'll begin with asking questions again from our -- if you want to take some time during the next set of questions, you're welcome to do that, but we're going to continue forward. our next question is turned aimee leonard, a student, pictures and single mother from mishawaka.

amy. >> at the start, am a full-time student pursuing a business degree. i'm a single mother of three, divorced. i also work full-time as a waitress. i get it go to no child support. and the sole provider for myself and my children. let's are part of my income to the state when i got my job, it all ended. with a system that seems to punish those who are trying to help improve themselves and the lives of their families and were those who do not. i want to believe in health care, but i do believe in a chance. you've any ideas such as computer training, or even resume building that would help make the transition from the state more practical? >> moderator: thank you, ms. leonard. boneham: amy, thank you. i see every day with her to submit to my program, starting to go out and go to work.

and at the same time, this might be a young man or woman who has some disabilities. this might be that 30-year-old person that cannot take care of themselves among the percent comes that they are in some disabilities but they get some government assistance. as they start make you money, the government assistance is instantly poll. we have to create a plan that as our population is empowering themselves, we encourage that, we continue to support, but step it down as they are building their own support. i want to create a welfare to works day for anyone who is on government assistance. you have to have that end. >> thank you very much. mr. pence. pence: amy, god bless you for being a great mom to my your

kids. i wife was raised for a good part of her youth. i think one of the encouraging bits of progress in this administration is that governor daniels for renewed effort of collecting child support and just be assured that we'll have an open door to all hoosier families have built a special place will work hard to create those kind of transition programs are talking about. and again, thank you for your courage. i may speak of icann and the time i have remaining. this business about be never pass in a single bill, you know that is not true. just because you say it, doesn't make it so. people go to my website and reach your heart's content about legislation, but i've offered them enacted the support of jobs in indiana. i was a driving force behind an effort to save some $41 billion in federal spending.

in a 95% voting record speaks for itself, john. >> moderator: thank you very much. pence: -- negative personal attacks. we want to attack the issues are not his. >> moderator: mr. pence, please adhere to the time limits we have established ahead of time. mr. gregg, your response. gregg: thank you. thank you very much. congressman in indiana, we follow rules. we don't think because we are an elected official we are above them. let me say something to you, amy. when congressman pence was congratulating you, he's got a program he wants to focus on families, but a fine mom and dad family. mary koppel. you know, i am a single parent, to when i take great offense that his family planned us to consider me and my boys the family. maybe he doesn't think you and your kids are a family either.

that is the road we don't want to go down. but the way how people is to create better paying jobs. these poverty available jobs have to stop in the right to work is not a solution that's going to lead to eight, $9.10 an hour jobs and you can strengthen or build the middle class on that. that is why we've got a plan to take advantage of our natural resources and advantages in indiana. that is why we have a plan. >> moderator: thank you very much, mr. gregg. our next question will be asked by renaldo fernandez, a retiree from south then. mr. hernandez. >> thank you. most older adults, with whom i am one of the long-term nursing care at some point in their lives. we prefer to receive those services at home instead of in a nursing home. and yet indiana continues to rank at the bottom of state in terms of public spending for

home care services. even though home care is less expensive, but nursing home care. especially ask is to the surest program and the granting of medicaid waivers, will you do anything to improve availability of home care as an option for older adults? if so, what and if not, why not? >> moderator: mr. pence. pence: well, let me say. and it's ramon is that? >> moderator: is for an although. pence: thank you for your question. it's extremely important we innovate. it's one of the reasons why if i'm elected governor of indiana, it is going to be my hope that we have a new president in the white house and new leadership in the 90s the senate.

and we're going to go to washington d.c. and were going to ask for greater control over medicaid. in fact, i'm very encouraged by the fact that governor romney's clients were bought grant and medicaid back to the state. because one of the things india has demonstrated, whether seniors are rather medicaid recipients is the ability to innovate. the wheels of medicare and the issue that. i know my opponent supports obamacare. i oppose it strongly for a lot of reasons. one was that $700 million cut in and care for seniors. >> moderator: thank you ran much, mr. hands. i was in the legislature when mr. john brazil, brazil indiana side and he came up with this program it is a great program that works because it allows senior citizen or people that

sometimes end up in a nursing home, to peace, dignity and ability to stay in their home. they did some assistance. i yesterday was in gary, indiana, visited a lady who lived on porter street. her name was laura. she's able to say in her home because of this program, beget we've cut it and not fully funded it. as governor i will do everything we can to see that that program is fully funded in the waiting list no longer exists. it's more good, allows peace and dignity and congressman, if you're going to washington to attack a problem, what in the devil have you done out there the last 12 years? >> moderator: thank you very much, mr. gregg. boneham: i came back to indianapolis and my adoptive grandparents were getting ready to be taken out of the retirement home, in the retirement village and placed in a home. they didn't want to die in a

retirement home. they did not want to die without their loved ones and their possessions around them. we have created a house in indiana, indianapolis. i moved in with them and help them to the last two months of their life in the past in their home. pete and able to our state when we talk about reducing health care costs, of course we should be encouraging home health care. we need to use common sense and cared our hoosiers that are aging a little bit to dignity to decide where they go. >> moderator: thank you very much, mr. boneham. unless the next question on behalf of laura bruder. i will ask that you keep your answers to 20 seconds because, for time purposes.

the question, which will go to mr. gregg first is coming to put the property tax legislation put in place by the voter referendum has benefited our local governments and public schools as well as business? mr. gregg. gregg: i think the property tax system is something that all hoosiers wanted. that's why we passed a constitutional amendment. i think it has created enormous challenges for mayors and county officials and school superintendents. so where is its benefit of folks as homeowners come it's caused a lot of problems for those in the trenches and local government. >> thank you very much, mr. gregg. boneham: i would love to revisit property tax caps and for the family farm that is your home, seeing if we can take that to 1%. yes, there is a shortcoming with limiting the property tax cap, but where we are going to show we build those --

>> moderator: thank you very much. appreciate that. 20 seconds. pence: as jealous of our property tax caps and i believe the benefit hoosiers. i believe it's benefited our economy. i'm sensitive to the fact that there are unique challenges in agriculture, given high yields before the summer's drought and will be open at that, we'll listen to that, but i strongly support the property tax caps. >> moderator: thank you very much, mr. pence. our final question asked on behalf the pair looked upon,, retired technician from south then. the question is come is elected governor the oath of office requires you swear to support the constitution of the united states and the constitution of the state of indiana and that he will faithfully and impartially discharge or duties as governor of indiana to the best of their skills and ability. how can you assure us that you will keep the solemn oath? mr. boneham come to your first.

boneham: first, what to say i wish i could find the indiana constitution so i could carry it in my pocket the same way i carry the federal constitution. how i to stand up and hold the constitution to your every mind our government the constitution is what we are based on an stand up when our government is creating laws that are unconstitutional. i want to stand up and swear that those two indiana, to every citizen in indiana that i will treat every citizen equal, that we will give every citizen the same right, privileges and benefits. being able to stand here and share that i am not the career politician, i am just a businessman that is trying to

bring some common sense back into our government. bring that ability for us to actually deal with the cause of our problems, not the symptoms, not to stand appearing arduin fight, not to blame others, but to deal with what is really going on and to actually look at the cause of our problems. >> moderator: thank you very much. boneham: i saw 10 seconds. sorry, you interrupted me. >> moderator: i'm sorry. you took a pause. boneham: to everyone after tonight, thank you very much. i was able to get everything i wanted out. >> moderator: you are and like many politicians in that you actually pause to take a breath. i apologize. [laughter] [applause] >> moderator: mr. pence, 90 seconds. pence: i want to thank the

indiana debate commission for this wonderful opportunity. that may save for a moment or two on the question i take, other than the oath image that will bring back their 27 years ago, i just take no other of us were seriously than the outsized hide to serve this country the last 12 years. and if i'm elected to be the 50th governor of indiana, offering the same figure to defending from a supporting upholding the constitution of the united states in the constitution of the state of indiana. they've actually propose to change the office essay procurements in federal grant to be the opposite state based initiatives so that indiana could lead the effort of our position of fiscal strength and growth to be enough at this as we know how to do things the end and awake we want to gain more control of our federal resources. and i believe that is consistent with great traditions coming up on 200 years of history. we had a spirited and memorable

debate tonight. let me encourage all of you to take a look at our vote not. i went for governor because i love this state, but i'm also running because i think this is no ordinary time in the life of our stay. if we produced the great leaders at every level, with an insistent vision to build an even better indiana, i believe indiana will take her place as the leading state in the midwest is the fastest growing economies in the united states of america and i'm ready to go to work to do that. i ask for your vote. >> moderator: thank you greenwich, mr. pence. mr. gray, 90 seconds. gregg: thank you. i upheld indiana's constitution for 16 years. i took the oath to uphold the state constitution on the federal constitution. i do not analogy that began and there's no doubt in my mind that these individuals will also try to do it. i've got to tell you, i don't have any fancy slogan for what were trying to do. i just got hoosier common sense, but i think it works and it worked when i was speaker of the

house when we did things in a bipartisan fashion. i know how to bring people together and have always been able to do it. this is a crucial election. there is a stark contrast between the candidates running for governor in indiana. i'm pretty much a middle-of-the-road guy. a little right of center to most of the people in my party. but you know what? i'm running against a person who is a tea party or, who is an extremist and that is the truth of the matter. hoosiers are not extreme people are the tea party agenda is extreme and to those lugar republicans and independents out there, i am the only person standing between you and tea party control of our hoosier government. >> moderator: thank you very much. that wraps up our three gubernatorial debates. the final is thursday, october 25. the studios of the wfyi begins

at 7:00 p.m. eastern time. can you make again to make sure public television, staff of the part about end northern university and volunteers of the unit debate commission and organizations, thank you, also. good night for dame, indiana. [applause] ..