so we need to understand thurmond's racial politics in the mid midst of that's other conserve causes and issues that he was very world with insure... ...

>> thanks for coming, especially on a day like today. who won the game? ouch. bad or close? >> [inaudible] >> well, okay, 21-21, okay, well, okay, we can live with that. anyway, thanks for coming. like she said, i spent 20 years flying fighters, never actually intended to write a book, came about more or less by accident. anybody watch the fox and friends interview earlier, last week? probably not. they asked me the same question, and, you know, it's not something one thinks about, and we don't talk about it very much so i think it's a good glimpse into a world that, again, is not normally accessible. i've been really surprised -- i

shouldn't have been -- but surprised by the interest of teenagers thinking about a possible career and what it might take and is the air force academy, how do you get in the air force, what do you do, that sort of thing. i think it's opened a lot of eyes which is good. more than that, i wanted it -- i wanted to kind of expose a little bit of what's happened in the last 20 # years because i don't think people realize that for -- since 1990 basically, people have been going back and forth to the middle east day in, day out, month after month, christmas, thanks giving, the divorce rate is 50% now in the military. it's all the time. it's not just me out there, and the book was not written from the stand point of it's all about fighter pilots or me. i hope you get an in-depth

appreciation of what's been done and continue to be done. the book starts with a combat mission in 2003, and it's north of a town in iraq. any of you marines? no, okay. there was a marine unit cut off there, and the biggest sand storm i saw in my life rolled into saudi arabia and iraq, covered the whole continent other than the corner where we were. somebody had to get under that stuff to save these marines. that's what the book opens with. i talk a little about the history of most of what i did. it's called -- i was a wild weasel. you know what that is? okay. you guys are air force; right? cay -- cadets? no, good. already been there, done that. i was a wild weasel. that's very unique and a screwy

kind of person whose job in life it is to go out, get shot out by air missiles and aircraft military, and when you survive, you go back around and remove the threats so they don't bother anybody else. i won't tell you what the first guy said when they asked him to do this in vietnam. read about it in the book. it's mixed company and youngsters here. i'm not going into that, but it's a really a screwy job. that's what i did. i talk about the history of how all of that came to pass. it's not a textbook. you know, when i learn, i like to learn without knowing that i'm learning. you live bill bryson's books? i love it. i learned a lot and didn't know i learned anything. i tried too that with this. you get history, and then you start out what happened when i was commissionedded as a lieutenant -- commissioned as a lieutenant and the process it takes to become a pilot and a fighter pilot after that. talk a little bit about, again,

the first gulf war. there's some funny things in there too. you know, it's hard not to spend 20 years doing something without funny things. my first combat mission was a very, very long day that culminated in the officer's club in turkey, and there's amusing stories in there. i won't ruin the book for you, and then i did an exchange tour with the egyptian air force for a year and a half. i had to go off to school and learn how to speak arabic and learn about them and how they think and how they operate. got to do that for a year, which was interesting. i put a chapter in there called "fly like an egyptian," anybody here old enough to remember the egyptian -- yeah, okay, good. walk like an egyptian. amusing antedotes in that year i spent and not so amusing. i think it opens with a morning doing a test flight, and as soon

as i got the airplane up in an 8g climb how cool is this, the engine quit, and it was not cool anymore for the 50 seconds it took me to get the airplane back down on the ground. that's kind of follow-upny. i will tell you how that ended though. on the ground, it catches up with me, and i start to sweat a little bit, and i'm grateful to be back on the ground, this egyptian pes cant walks -- pes cant -- peasant walks across the runway. it's tight security so i was not expected him to plot in front of the airplane, 20 feet from the jet leading a donkey. the top key relieved himself in front of the airplane, and they shook their head at me and walked off. there's funny things like that. basically, traces the path of at

least my path as a fighter pilot. you know, i came back from egypt, overseas for six years with a good life, you know, i lived in europe, you guys in the military, you get to travel and do things. saw most of the capitals, cities, you know, a lot of neat things you don't normally see. i used to keep a horse by the pyramids, i mean, how cool is that to ride and look over and see the pyramids? i wanted to come home. i had not had a sonic burger in a long time, and i was not in a store open past eight o'clock at night for a long time, and i wanted to come home, and i did. i got selected to attend the fighter weapon school at the air force version of the navy school. i had done the navy school in an abbreviated exchange. it was okay, but they are not half of what we are. you are air force; right? okay, good. nevermind the football game today. they --

>> [inaudible] >> that's irrelevant. that whole taking off landing on a carrier, they can keep it. it was a good school, but ours is six months long and utterly miserable. i came out of that a changed human being, some say for the better. i lost almost all of my cockiness, quite a few tail feathers, and then spent the next decade being a weapons and tactics officers at different levels and a fighter. i was at cobert towers when they blew up. remember that? don't be close to me, always in the wrong place at the wrong time. yeah, i was there when that place blew up. we were not thinking about terrorism then the way it's that thought of now. it was not something we were prepared to fight. my generation was geared up to fight the soviet union. i asked my teenage daughter, she says, you know, what's wrong with russia? it's --

it was not russia, but the soviet union. she was like, what's that? we were geared up to fight them, most of us never really considered iraq or, you know, knew who hussein was, and after that war was over, which winning was a fore gone conclusion, you know? the terrorism thing took us by surprise. we thought they were rebel rowsers, never gave them too much credit. interesting enough, all the buildings at cobar were built by the bin laden construction company and had all those stamps in the building. how's that for irony? yeah. after that, it changed. the world trade center bombings, 9/11, we know what happened that day. i was flying that morning. we had come back from the middle east from another rotation, and the monday, september 10th, was our first day back in the morning of september 11th, i was actually flying, and i had come down very, very early, and

somebody said, hey, you got to look at this. i remember thinking as i looked at that first tower burning, what kind of a mormon of -- moron of a pilot could hit that building on a clear day. i thought it was an accident. the second plane hit, we figured it out. they sent us up to close down the air space over the united states. i talked about that, too. for a pilot, that's eerie. i mean, there's tens of thousands of flights every day overhead, and, you know, the radios are talking and talking, never quiet, and to go up later on that day after, you know, about eleven o'clock, and there's nobody airborne, nobody talking. it was eerie. i found a delta jet trying to get into atlanta that through no fault of his own, they were not on the right radio frequency, and the controller was going bananas because he couldn't talk to him, and the airline pilot couldn't talk to him, and everybody's jumpy because they thought there were more

terrorist attacks so i had a two ship with me, joined up alongside the delta jet trying to look inside the cockpit to make sure it was an american. i got ten feet from the cockpit. i realized he was an american quick because he used hand gestures only an american would use, probably another former military pilot so we quickly established that, okay, he's good, i'm good, and we -- it was kind of funny. i talk about that. as i look back along the airplane, there's hundred little faces pressed up against the window, you know, looking at this manly fighter bristling with missiles up alongside of it because we didn't -- inside the united states, we don't fly armed, at least we never had unless we're going specifically to train and that sort of thing. we use dummy missiles, but these were all live because nobody knew what was going to happen that day. i talk about that. this is all from the viewpoint,

just my viewpoint how it looked from where i was. i don't get into the grand geopolitical scheme. we get enough of that, at least i do, you know, it's interesting to me when i see it through an eyewitness perspective from somebody. it leads into the second gulf war, again, at the wrong place in at the wrong time, and my squadron is one of the few that goes, and one amusing story about that. we went there on valentine's day in 2003, and we stopped in spain overnight. we usually stop flying nonstop if possible. i've done it twice, and it's utterly miserable. 14 hours in a seat about like that, you know, no drinks, no attenadapt, no meal. it's miserable. we were happy to stop in spain, and i got caught up in a spanish

anti-war protest, believe it or not. i talking about -- i talk about that. i was in the cathedral area because i studied to be an architect in college, and i wanted to see it again. i remember thinking it's quiet down here. i came around a corner, and it was a scene from les miz. down with bush, and if i ran, they would mob me. i had to go along with them until i got away, and so i talk about that. it was kind of funny. then, you know, it make picks up with the actual missions in the second gulf war. some of them, again, some had amusing parts. some of them definitely didn't. that mission to save the marines, you know, i thought it was over when i climbed up out of that mess and breathed a sigh of relief because i could see the sun. when i looked down, there was no ground to be seen anywhere,

which ordinarily is not a big deal. we can fly down to 200 feet, you know, and use instrument approaches, but the whole continent was covered, and i found eight other f-16s on the air refueling tankers that didn't know where to go or what to do. all the sudden, i'm in charge of ten airplanes i didn't plan on, and i got to get them down to a divert base in northern kuwait that i had never seen before. it has a runway, theoretically, but it's like bomb craters holding hands. it was just a mess. it was a very r -- it was a very, very long bad day. i talk about that, some wild wheeze l scenarios, and what it's like, despite the space stuff and cool technology, we got back to the point where we had to fly down low over baghdad and the battlefield to get these guys to shoot at us so we could find them because, you know, for instance, the army and marine helicopters come and they can't

protect themselves against missiles so we degenerated back into that. it was interesting. i talk about that. i was flying over baghdad one day, and i heard some guy from a flight before me talking about seeing a bear, and i'm thinking, he's sniffing glue or his oxygen is contaminated. something's not right. i look down, and i swear to god i saw a gyre raff run across the main thorough fair in baghdad. of course, the zoo was hit. the wild animals were running lose. stuff like that, what you don't expect, is in there. it kind of closes on what i think is a positive note, you know, i don't like it when you read non-fiction and the writers have a catharsis and they bleed all over the pages and you walk away thinking, wow, that was heavy. that was deep. this is a little bit more positive, again, just again how

i saw it and how it felt, you know, to come home from yet another war, and realize this was timely it for me. i'm done. it's somebody else's turn. that's it in brief. i appreciate the response so far. it's caught me by surprise. it was much more enthusiastic than i anticipated, and not just from military folks, but more civilians, straight civilians interested, i think, because we've always been fascinated by aviation; right? it's not something that humans do normally, especially at 500 miles flinging bits of metal at each other. that's not normal. i think a lot of people are interested in that. that said, if you have questions, happy to answer questions for you. anything at all?

shoot. >> [inaudible] >> oh, boy, i talk about that too actually. vance air force base in california. are you going to there? >> columbus, and i've been there. >> on purpose? >> yeah. >> why? >> [inaudible] >> nothing against oklahoma, but i was raised on the east coast, and oklahoma, the panhandle of oklahoma was a culture shock for me. i think they improved considerably now. they swapped out primary trainers and you have the at-6 now rather than the god awful t-37 that we had so, boy, when are you going? >> [inaudible] >> march. did you put something on the facebook page? that was you? okay, yeah, there is a facebook page for this. i didn't want to do it, but they made me. i'm not a facebook guy, but it's turned out to be interesting because i get to talk to a lot

more people than i ever thought. feel free to chime in. yeah. what do you want to do and fly? >> f-16. >> good answer. i flew the raptor for a whopping three hours there at the end of my career. i'm sure, you know, it's a fabulous airplane, but i'm partial to the f-16. i wish the air force -- and they may come to that and realize, you know, we can't afford these raptors and f-35s at $150 million each, you know, let's go with some more new f-16s because the newest version we build is called the block 16, sold it to the united arab emirates. best of everything i've flew. it's got everything. beautiful. >> f-16 -- [inaudible] >> i don't know what they call it. no, it was an e --

>> e model? >> yeah, e and f because american f-16s are c and d, and then, yeah, the uau was an e and f, block 60, though, cool airplane. do you want to be a fighter pilot? >> yeah. >> outstanding. out you? >> officer school. >> air force? >> yes, sir. >> dan's fine, i'm retired. that's one thing i saw in the course of the career that changed for the better, a lot of things changed for the better, but there's animosity for the services and competition and because we were thrown together in the last 20 years, most of that went away. there's a lot more cooperation than there ever was before. that's good. that's good. you'll live better in the air force, and so will the other guys. there's a lot of ss and seal friends and they hit themselves,

like, what was i thinking? cool jobs, but you get treated a little bit better in the arrest force than the other -- air force than the other services, at least so far. what else? oh, come on, don't make me tap dance. got to be something. >> your book talked about, like, a time, your experiences back when you were flying in a time where it seems like pilot, the fighter pilot was like glorified more than it is today. what do you have to say in regards to times that are changing now as far as where the air force was. >> drone stuff? >> that, and the culture. >> well, i think that part of the problem is we won the last war so completely there had not been a threat so the skies over iraq are clear, you know, there's not any migs or sams. afghanistan is a nasty ground war, but from an air perspective, you know, there's not an integrated air defense

system trying to kill fighter jets. given the skies are permissive, you know, the drones roam around free, unmolested, and i think false conclusions have been drawn, and there's people who ought to know better who are thinking, you know what? look how well they work, let's ewe them autol time. i-- lets use them all the time. i'm not against drones. i don't want to orbit over a point and take pictures for 12 hours. may tail would fall asleep. i don't want to do that, but by the same token, it's flown by a guy with a soda straw of a view, not there on the scene. i don't know of anyone who wants a drone overhead rather than a fighter. in a real combat situation, it's a mess. you can plan it, you can have the best plan in the world, and it's going to change, guaranteed. if it doesn't fall apart

completely, it falls apart mostly. it's hard to adapt and change to that if you're in a trailer 10,000 miles away at nulles air force base. i don't see why there's competition. we do what we do. they do what they do. i'm glad they are there, but they will not replace us. you know, and to get around to answering your question, i think the air force in particular has always been enamored with technology which is good putting us 10-15 years ahead of everybody else, but they have to remember without the men using whatever technology it is, it's just rusting junk. you can be a drone, a fighter jet, you know, you have to have the right guy using it or it's nothing, and they remember it. i think they just get more press, you know, on -- well, i guess you call it the negative end of things, but when push comes to shove, they'll remember

it. they won't have a choice. something like iran, and i'm not advocating fighting iran, not because they're a threat, you know, i could care less. they'd go down like everybody else, but, you know, wars are messy and nasty and people die. if you can avoid them, that's a good thing, but even somebody like iran, you know, the drones, they are not going to live over this, not until the skies clear. that answer the question? kind of? yeah? >> what about libya? talking about the drones, do you think libya opened people's eyes a little with the integrated air defense system and how the shaw responded to that? >> it was not anything new. i mean, you know, it was certainly less of an integrated air defense system than iraq had or the serbs had, you know? i think it got more press. remember when i went to war for the first time -- well, there

was cable news, but it's not like it is now. there were not ipads, iphones, everybody accident happening information and youtubeing all over the place. it was not like that. the more of that that's out there, you know, the more you'll see and more exposure there is. libya is a real chance, i think, to make that part of the world a better place. it's actually a nice country. people that i've met over there are good folks, and, you know, everybody dch in fact, last week on fox, they asked me about the arab uprising and all of these people, you know, protesting, and i said, you know, i looked hard for that when i was there. i never saw it. i think it's the same 20 people in prompt of the camera to make good media, but it's not very realistic. not to say there's not a threat, but most of the arabs i know, they are like us, you know, they want to live a a good life and

make their kids happy, and, you know, they are not really any different. it's the bad ones that get the press. libya, it's going to be perilous in the next six months. i hope they pull it off. i think we've chased al-qaeda and that group of people untenable. they are moving to africa in a huge right. i've done counterterrorism work, and it's like the game whack-a-mole we played as kids. hit one here, a head pops up here. that's how terrorism is. yeah, we can beat them with force if they face up to us, but they don't do that that often, and, really, the only way to fight an idea is with another idea, and that's what we're short on at the moment, but i think they need to work on -- you know, we're not going to

convince an act of terrorist now to see the error of their ways and see it like us anymore than what you decide, hey, that's going to be fun and grab an ak and start shooting people. you're not going to do that. that's where libya's important because if we can get that place stabilized, you know, it can make a difference. it's north africa. you know, it's not the arabian peninsula. they are different people. we get in the habit of thinking of arabs as one group. they are not anymore than we are. i'm from maryland. there's probably people here from the west coast or north or midwest. we're all different. so are they. you know, if we stabilize that place, it would be good. as far as the drone thing goes, again, they've realized for some time they can't stand up and fight us conventionally which is why they do what they do, which is why they drove planes into

the twin towers which is why they attack an -- unarmed unsuspecting people. they don't have an answer for it other than we have to fight an idea with a different idea, you know? yes, ma'am? >> in the area of the psychology of killing, do you think it's easier to kill from the air than, you know, because of the space? >> no, killing's killing. you know, i was never in a knife -- well, not in the military, i was never in a enough fight with somebody and had to see their eyes, but, you know, to use a 20 # millimeter canyon, you get close enough to see people's faces. i've been asked that a couple times, and anybody who's been in the situation is you have to distance yourself from it at some point somehow. everybody does it different, you know? i wish we lived, you know, in a world where this was not necessary, but we don't, and we

probably never will be so i have no regrets about what i have to do. i said it in the book, you know, everybody that i killed was trying to kill me, you know, it came down literally to them or me, and they missed, i didn't, you know? guys handle it different ways. i've seen people -- nobody comes apart at the time. i've seen people later on have difficulties. some people compartmentalize. pilots are good at compartmentalizing because the flying world is so different than, you know, the normal everyday world that we have to kind of put it back in a little honey comb in the back of your head and shut it away. combat is an extension of that. i wouldn't want to live with a fighter pilot. i don't know how my wife did it. we're not the easiest people to live with under normal circumstances, much less something like that. that answer your question?

>> uh-huh, thank you. >> what else? there's got to be something. jets, geopolitics -- >> talk about the -- [inaudible] >> there's a chapter on the first gulf war. the elephant is an expression for combat, and there's a couple different versions of how it came to be. i personally believe the one that goes back to the roman times when hanibal brought the elephants across the alps to attack rome, and the row maps talked about having seen the elephants, meaning having been in combat, and so you'll know it if it happens, and i made this point, too, it's not just combat. anybody that's ever had a close call, i mean, a really close i don't know how i'm sitting here close call, caught a glimpse of the elephant. your insides freeze up, time stops, you can't breathe, and

then it passes, and you think, what was that? well, we say that's a glimpse of the elephant. happens a lot as a fighter pilot. you get used to it as much as you can. yeah, that was that first mission over the time, and i remember seeing the missiles coming off the ground, and i remember really for the first time this is real, you know? this is not the range in ellis. you know, this is not just some symbol on my scope. those things are real. they are coming at my nose, you know? yeah, you hope you reagent -- react right and do what you have to do. i never knew a guy that didn't, not a fighter pilot, never knew one that didn't, but, still, brings you up short the first time because there's no way to train for that. you just have to hope everything else you've done up until that time keeps you from screwing up.

.. what could happen and then you walk away and try to forget about it and then you go on. so that is one of my favorite chapters because i remember it vividly. somebody else asked me how do you remember all this stuff? well, you know i am sure you have had experiences in your lives where things you will

never forget, you remember them like they happened this morning and that is kind of how this is. how about you, young man? do you like airplanes? do you think you are headed that way? >> helicopters. >> where did you get the army-navy -- from? [inaudible] >> oh really? which based? oh yeah? which part what unit? >> for bsp. >> bsb stands for? okay, i have got some group buddies out there. a lot of this is probably familiar to you from a different standpoint. we will get on you for surviving through it.

your dad is a brave man. helicopters? well i never had to use one thankfully. i never got shot down. i had some friends that were though and they were awfully awfully happy to see the army, over the ridge in their blackhawks with their apaches swarming nearby, so again i think that is a positive, something positive that came out of the last 20 years and in fact we are all a lot closer than we used to be. that's good. you are nodding your head a lot and agreeing. you must have something to say. what are you working on? >> that's a good question. >> as far as acknowledging the military -- what can you still do? >> you know that's a real good question. did you all hear that? she asked, americans acknowledge the military and are grateful more than they used to be and

what is still missing? i was a kid when vietnam ended. i was about your age and my dad was involved in that. america was a lot different then. i am really happy that the general population realizes that the military doesn't go out and start wars. in fact most people i know in the military, especially those that have been in the hurt locker, we are the last people who want to go fight a cousin and interrupts our lives. some people don't come back. we are hardly bloodthirsty. it's nice to see people being supportive and patriotic jumping up and down and saying hey was go get them. we would rather not mostly had must we had to. that said, you know, people i think realize that you can be against the war or against a government or policies but don't take it out on the military. we are just doing what we do. that is the biggest thing i've

seen in the last 20 years and that is good or go that is really good. i have got some died in the wool liberal east coast cousins that you know, they want nothing to do with the military and don't support anything like that and that's fine. this is america. we don't want people to think the same way but you know they realize that if they have a gripe than taken up with the government. we agree to disagree but they still support the military which is nice. what i think is missing? if i could call it something i would call it -- had run-ins with them? not yet, good. boy, you know and i feel their pain kind of because there are millions of people out there that need to v-8 but i think it's shameful that there are guys walking around missing pieces of themselves they can't get proper treatment from our own government and there is

really no excuse for it because i run a business now and it can be done. they are just not doing it and i don't think it's willful neglect on their part. i think they just don't know what to do and they have the wrong people running it. and i hate to see the figures of military veterans that are homeless they can't get treatment. i'm not talking about guys that sat out there time working in the dx somewhere. not that there's anything wrong with that but the guys that have been over a part of that come back a little bit different, with missing parts so they deserve better. that is what i say is missing if i had to put a label to it. makes sense? something else. you guys have got to help me here. we have got to talk for two more minutes. you can either ask or i can talk.

she is putting you on the spot. how about upt? do you want to ask anything about upt? that's okay. >> wondering if you have any advice or any stories or just your 2 cents about the whole experience and after-the-fact that? >> boy was my full of myself then. you spend four years going through college and going through everything you have got to do you know to get accepted to upt and it's more than just getting commission. there is a whole separate nightmare, especially now with things are kind of drawing down. they can really pick and choose so you know, it was really tough to get an. and i remember getting their thinking, i am somebody. boy, i made it this far. i'm elected in -- lieutenant,

look at my impressive -- and wow i got over that pretty quick. the first thing i remember that stuck out for me in upt was the immediate difference between those with wings and those without wings and like anything else in life when you really really want something and you don't have that you become fixated on it. that is good because that is the way you need to be for that year. stay focused and fixated on it and when we got to wear flight suits, they made us wear blues for two weeks which was really humiliating on a flying base and they finally got flight suits. they were brand-new and they smelled kind of sweet and they were creased because they had never been washed in your boots are shining. i remember putting that thing on its standing in front of the mirror thinking, boy i was really good. and boy, the next day you may be wearing a flight suit that you

are not in it. it was a little more graphic than that but i will spare you the full letter anecdotes. and you know it's performance-based. it doesn't matter when you walk through that gate whether you are an academy grad or an ocs or an rotc. it doesn't matter if your dad was a general or a war hero or a street sweeper. nothing matters. you are all at that point in everything you do after that is all performance-based. and a great everything. every test, every situation, every simulator, every flight, everything. so just be aware that you under the microscope. don't let it make you tight. if you are fighting you're not going to do very well but it just be aware of it. i would never lose an opportunity to keep my mouse shots, you know. they are looking for the cocky,

arrogant types because those you know, you know how it is when you're in upperclassman. some freshmen shows up and thinks he's gods gift to the academy. you focus on him, we did. they are looking for the guy that thinks he is chuck yeager and they are they're going to show him in great painful detail why he is not. so it's hard enough without complicating your life that way. so i would be humble and i would be quiet and i would you know honestly try to be everything the -- single thing you can because that's what they're going to look at. there are guys who showed up that had a lot of things on and they outperformed most of the rest of us in t. 37's or at six's but to 38 is the advanced trainer and it's kind of like a fighter. it's a lot faster.

they are behind each other and they are not side-by-side with an instructor behind you. they are not sitting there watching everything you do which is a little disconcerting. it lands like a fighter and kind of flies like one. that is where they really decided who was going to be a fighter pilot. i don't think that is change. it matters how you are form but where you really want to shine is in the t-38's because that is where they are going to decide who was where and what. long story short my advice would be quiet, be humble and absolutely fly the best you can and be mr. com cool and collected. i have no idea what the attrition rates are now. i would imagine with the drawdown they are probably pretty high because they are looking for reasons to get rid of people. hours were pretty bad. again that is the way we wanted.

it's a good system and very fair, harsh they get used to it. it's going to be that way and it doesn't get any better for about five years. when i got wings and got to be a fighter again i should've known better but i thought well, i'm somebody again. and you know, you get out there at the air force base and get into the f-16 and the rtu which is where they train you how to fly the f-16 and they beat that right out of you so it's just a process of climbing up and getting beaten down and climbing up and getting beaten down. even when i got to my first fighter squadron two years after i started, i walk in the door and i think okay, now i'm really fair. i'm a fighter pilot now and you are not.

you are not even if you are qualified as a pilot. you have to go through a front-line fighter check out called the qt program and that takes maybe two or three months. finally they will look you in the eye and go yeah you are fighter pilot. i could retire by then. just be wary of being cocky. what else? did you think of your question? >> you know. >> the microphone makes him nervous. what else? there has to be something. it's a private military company. i wanted to collect butterflies for a living but it didn't work out for me.

i actually got into commercial development when i first retired in yacht clubs and things like that because i wanted to put my long issued architecture degree to work. architecture doesn't really help being a fighter. i had to go back to doing something that i knew so i got involved with a private military companies and the government. and got to see kind of the other side of the coin, afghanistan and iraq and other less pleasant places. so it is what it is. how about you guys? are you waiting for the free drinks? there aren't any. there aren't any, sorry. >> we are in kind of the same boat as these guys here.

>> you are to it from the academy? both of you guys going off? whereto? >> shepard. >> shepherdshepard, a nice place. i told you that, didn't i? we used to drive their in a fan if you can believe it because there is absolutely nothing needed. >> shepard is in wichita falls and it has a great advantage of training the military nurses there too and whenever the nurses have a graduation there's a big party. you put nurses together with fighter pilots, you know, it's going to be a more interesting time than it normally would sell yeah. think about what is between oklahoma and wichita falls. there has to be a pretty good incentive to get somebody to drive. shepard is a nice place in dallas is an an in too far either. do they still guarantee you guys a fighter? >> no. it's whatever, pretty much

anywhere else. >> that was the other thing when i went through a few went to shepherd you are going to get a fighter. there were some good ones but for the most part they got a lot of fighters. it's probably better that way, more fair all around. what else? i don't want to hold you guys up. okay, well thanks for coming very much. i appreciate it. if you guys buy the book, even better. harpercollins actually signed me up to read a couple more. one is nonfiction. it's the history of fighter pilots, not just americans but all of them and i have been learning how much i didn't know about my own profession. it's going to be a very interesting book. sometime next year, who knows maybe six months after that some may be 20 and then there is a

fictional book that i wrote called the mercenary that will be out in e-book form to start with i think in january or february. like most good fiction, it's not really fiction. parts of it are but a lot of it is based on things i've done since then. so pretty interesting. the e-book, i was never in e-book person. i like to feel a book and turn the pages but i'm coming around slowly. you get 600 books in their ipad and you have to travel with one ipad instead of a backpack of book so that's cool but they did a really good job with this. it's interactive and full of cockpit displays and for the uninitiated it explains when he's talking about a hug but is that, you know what it has really cool pictures and graphics. we went out to the melich air force base in june and one of my friends was a wing commander out

there. they loaned me an airplane for a day and they filmed the whole bunch of stuff with the airplane and some of the sand is all in there so if you are e-book types, maybe you want to have a look at that because it turned out really well. that said if there are no other questions than thanks for coming. i hope you guys like the book. [applause] if you have got them and you want me to sign them i will and if you end up liking the book, through her view on to amazon for me. that will help and i will be happy to sign what you've got. speech here on booktv on c-span2 we continue our coverage of freedom fest 2012 from las vegas, the libertarian gathering that is held annually out in the

city. we have been talking with several different authors. we want to introduce you to another author right now and its wendy it's wendy mcelroy his book is called "the art of being free," politics versus the every man and woman. wendy mcelroy, first of all tell us about yourself. >> well, i have been active in libertarianism in for 40 years now and i've been running since i was 15 years old. this book is my reaction to 9/11 basically. when 9/11 happened, i started to rethink everything about libertarianism and everything about my belief. i wondered, had i wasted my life to work in freedom for the decades i had to cut as i saw it arrived so quickly after 9/11 and so effortlessly.

and seeing that america gave up on freedom all at one moment. and i did a lot of thinking about my relationship to the states, what the state was, how important it was to my life and how the main thing that the responsibility if you like, what thoreau used to call the -- [inaudible] and as a result i wrote a book, "the art of being free" that gave the history, and the psychology if you woods behind my response to that whole system of thinking after 9/11, where i basically am tired of dealing with freedom as a distraction. i am debating the abstraction and i'm not missing our disrespecting anyone who wants to debate liberty.

i just want to be free. i want to know how to be free in my own lifetime especially given surviving would i consider a -- >> and what did you change in your thinking after 9/11 and what did you find about your previous thinking, concrete examples. >> okay, concrete examples. one attitude towards the state if you want, best expressed by david friedman one time in a speech where he said there there is an italian saying that if you translated into english, something along the lines of its raining again. you blame everything on the state. you rail and you talk and you work against the state. on the other hand, i mentioned henry david thoreau who was the pivotal in my thinking. he basically had the idea the

business of living, but he had the idea, he went out and at one time did an essay on civil disobedience. he went on to a hill and he said, looked around and saw the actual beauty that surrounded him and he said here there is no state. i want to look inside myself and say, here there is no state. i try to do that increasingly every day by making sure everything from alternate currency, interacting with my neighbor in terms of alternate methods of exchange, privatizing my life, taking my life back from the state and privatizing it to the extent possible. do not interact with the state, make sure that you go into businesses that are privatizing government services. do not interact with the state.

we are going through an unprecedented period of gaining control of our lives. all you have to say is now and i'm not saying that you should martyr yourself, martyr your family. i'm not saying anything like that or go that would be recklessness. what i'm saying is, to the extent possible, privatize your own personal life. >> so does that mean you are living off the grid? does that mean you are not flying on airplanes because tsa and all the different regulations -- who are those the types of things you are not doing anymore? >> i am here so, and i cannot tell anyone what to do in their lives and i'm not trying to. what i'm saying is to the extent it's possible, use alternative currency. use the green market. go private. do not use government. and this book, and i don't mean

to misrepresent it to cause it is not theoretical. is more historical and background and under underpinning of what i am saying and i am actually writing another book right now that would be more the how to. the whole idea that people have to fight -- this is basically psychologically preparing people for the fact that they are living in a police state or give if they are not coming to a police state we are living in it and you must ask yourself a lot of questions and prepare yourself, how far you're willing to obey, what are you going to do certain situations,? being free is no longer something you can take for granted. it is something that you are going to have to develop the artist being. >> who is beatty chadwick? >> true is to? >> beatty chadwick. >> beatty chadwick was a man who is in jail for many many years, even though he committed no

crime. he had been convicted of nothing. what it was was, there was an imprisonment due to a civil contempt. there are many, many people are not aware of the complexities that are developed in the american court system. in the american family court system, hugo and you are divorcing your wife and your wife alleges that -- your wife alleges that you have a hidden asset. the judge says yes i think he doesn't even though it's not proven, he went to jail for something like 10 or 12 years because he basically refused to turn over records to a judge. that a civil contempt and that damnable thing is you can be imprisoned for far longer on a

civil contempt charge than a criminal one exists civil contempt you don't have a right to appeal. you don't have a right to have a judge or a lawyer. you don't have any rights that are you're due process rights in a criminal case. there are many situations in the system that people aren't aware of. they are creeping up on average people like you and me. >> is it just the state that concerns you? what about in today's world, corporations or searches on the internet or if you use credit cards and their behaviors are tracked or cell phones and all that information is out there? >> i am of course concerned with the ordinary citizen being a criminal which is what you are talking about. i have a very hard time drawing the line between a state in the corporation.

i don't think corporations could exist unless they had the privilege, and less they had liability and had less they had justification by the state and when i say it sounds like i'm slamming big business, i'm not slamming big business. business should get as big as it possibly can in a free-market context. let it lettuce surgeon let it prosper. if you're asking about the privacy issue, yeah, of course everyone will go after my data, not mine in particular that it ridiculous precious but your data and my data, because they can use the book on it and as long as i have the ability to say no comments as long as i have the ability to shut the door which the state did not let me do but which i would have the ability to do in the free market, as long as i'm able to do that then it's up to you. the responsibility devolves on

me to slam that door. >> wendy mcelroy think the post office is harmful? >> oh, the post office. it's a benign institution usually. the one that is thrown up like performing a service. yeah the service they have performed throughout the decades from the very beginning when it was established after the founding fathers. the antifederalists were centered and in wartime, any government agency is going to serve a government purpose beyond the service that it purports to provide to the public. any government agency is a government agency. privatize it, get rid of that. >> are most libertarians

anarchists? you describe yourself as an anarchist libertarian feminists. [laughter] is an anarchist the same? is there a lot of overlap between a libertarian and an anarchist? >> there is a lot of overlap and anarchist often describe themselves as libertarian. i am in anarchist. henry david thoreau, the best government is the one that governs the least in the least government we have is no government so i have that kind of what may be called by some -- most libertarians i know, if they were in power and they were able to establish minimal government thath