>> it's amazing that eisenhower tells him to have his people alert because it is completely on edge and kennedy laughs and then he says hang on tight which is a moment that even on this terribly tense day they are able to joke a little bit with each other and especially during the crisis i think they had a sense of charlie it is to occupy that office and how you are giving all kinds of advice and getting good advice and faulty advice which kennedy was in putting his joint chiefs. and eisenhower knew all about the faulty military advice and he was able to speak with his supreme authority about the danger as well as the advantages of the military advice. he was a very useful ally.

>> next on book tv he recalls his arrest, incarceration and eventual release for the murder of 38 year old boys in 1993. mr. echols and two other men don't have the west memphis three spent 17 years in prison. mr. echols discusses the case and his time spent on death row in seattle. it's about one hour and ten minutes. [applause] thank you for coming out tonight. damien, thank you for coming to seattle. >> thank you for having me. you have been through something that i think very -- not that many people have been through a sort of grind that feels like it might never end, and you wonder

if we will run into the next and of course the media has been on the book life after eath what is more mundane, prison or during the def tour? >> in some ways the book tour is actually a little more stressful at least when you are in prison you are not being scared out by 400 people. [laughter] >> can i get a show of hands how many people know about damien's story because of the film? >> i was surprised to reading your book that when the producers showed up, they were not there to show a movie about how wrongfully convicted, that is something that they figured out while they were shooting a movie about what they thought were satanic murders. >> exactly. >> we were told there was a very

small article in "the new york times" of sheila, the head of the documentary vision and hbo in the paper and she thought it was an open and shut case so she contacted them and told them i got to get your cameras and get down there in the courtroom and get this? after they started filming in, they realized it wasn't exactly what they had been led to believe it was and thankfully they got the entire trial on tape and they made a part of it into a documentary. as the met was that they thought part of your thought process to allow them to interview you and film so many of these important and intimate things to you just to try to get the word out. did you have a sense of that when you are an 18 year old kid or something? >> i don't have a sense like that. i didn't have anything to hide it. i didn't have anything i was trying to cover up, nothing i didn't want the cameras to capture. so i said let them in. it doesn't bother me.

but at the same time i was still in such a state of shock and trauma that i probably wasn't thinking of much of anything at all. by your own description of was at times pretty bleak. would you say that you had a sort of average childhood for that part of the world or were due unfortunate with some others in terms of how you live and your stepfather and just the sort of bullshit that you put up with? >> in some areas it was pretty useful debate could difficult. and you have all of these class divisions like what people think of as a red neck and then what we were which is just below that that is white trash. you know, we had absolutely nothing - growing upper. dirt-poor that wouldn't even come up with articulating it. when we did move up into a trailer park to us that was taking a huge step up in the

world. we had running water, electricity to read to us that was the life of luxury after what we had experienced. there were times i was a kid we would go places we would literally have to haul water in buckets back to the house and then handed over the fire and pour it into the tub just to take a bath. ischemic did that feel to do like that was going to be the rest of your life in one way or another being a pretty poor person and a not a part of the world or did you kind of have aspirations and dreams to get out of there? >> i did. i wanted to get out of there with the same time it so much like that was all i knew my entire life so there was a part of me that didn't believe that anything else actually existed. when i would watch a tv show about places like new york and los angeles and people went to college and it didn't really exist. it's on tv but i don't think

there's anybody in our world i have a ninth grade education and that's more than anybody else in my family does. there was even possible to get out. as of devotee in this room knows, you were a teenager when the police swept u.s. and put you on trial for the murder. what was the point if there was one where you realized that this was really happening actually not a mistake, not something was going to be our year in doubt when you were arrested was it during the trial was it ten years into being in prison? >> it happens gradually you go back and forth. when you are arrested i was a child myself, i was 18-years-old and a very 90's about how the system worked.

i had been raised in this belief that the system is based on innocent until proven guilty, and i thought there is no way they can actually prove that you've done something that you haven't done that should be scientifically impossible but it wasn't. they didn't and it was a part of the place when they would come back and say guilty but there's also they would come back and start sensing you are hearing this to death not once or twice but three times. that's when you realize nobody is going to step up and help your with a stop to that a respected you think there was a pretty good chance that you would be executed for this? >> i think most of the time, to read after vice all how it was i lost all faith and hope and believe that the system was ever going to write its wrongs.

but in '96 when we read a documentary that started coming out and i started hearing from people over the world as technology kept expanding and more and more people would hear about the case and start doing benefit shows or writing letters or even making donations to the defense, whatever it was, that is what kept me going. that is what i had faith and belief in in the outside world, people who were doing whatever they could. that is the reason that i thought i wouldn't be executed. >> did they ever show in the prison? >> never. i tried to watch it one time. the attorney i had got a court order from the judge she said this is relative to the case said he should see this. so they set up a tv, i made it through maybe 15 minutes of it and i couldn't take any more. i never stand where they had such a huge impact on people because for me watching it again

it was like being there in the courtroom again, and it's so overwhelming that you don't know. you just feel something huge. it articulates how it makes you feel what it does to you so i couldn't help but i didn't watch the second 1i watched the third one just because we went to the premiere in new york but i honestly don't remember most of it because it happened right when i'd just gotten out of privilege and i was in a really deep state of shock and i don't remember a lot of what happened in the first month or two that i was out to respond in your perception when people that you now or write to letters or see you at a premier like that where they figure you are out so you just must be happy go lucky and you are still feeling a lot of

this stuff? >> there is a tremendous amount of anxiety and stress and other stuff. i was in solitary confinement for almost ten years whenever i got out. so i went from that one day to almost a decade that saw the terrie confinement to being thrown back out in the world and i wasn't ready for the sensory overload that it was going to bring. and i had to learn things over and over again while learning things at the same time. i had to learn to walk again for almost 20 years i hadn't walked anywhere without chains on my feet. so, when i first got out i could track down the stairs or over my own feet and i had to be led around like a blind person which now that my eyesight is first -- >> let's talk about that for a minute because i thought you were just being a cool customer with your sunglasses on and that

is the result of having been incarcerated. >> i can see probably 4 inches in front of my face without these glasses. i was kept in a really small space and your eyes never have the chance to see anything more than a couple feet away so you gradually lose the ability to focus on things. i can't even see arm's-length anymore. >> you write about the brutality of the guards in the various jails and prisons rather that you were in. and i'm wondering do you think that -- and this is sort of speculating on your part, that unique to those particular present or do you think that is across the u.s.? they are always going to keep stuff like that covered up. they are never going to allow a

camera into a prison the most horrible things are going on. if they do allow cameramen it is going to be very tightly controlled situation. they are not going to do the things they would normally be doing to someone while someone from the outside is watching. you have all the time in the u.s., you have prisons on the verge of alliance, prisoners going on strike refusing to work, they have to shut the whole presents down and people never even hear of it because they say if it is reported in the media it will make the prisoners even more aggressive, they will say okay the world is paying attention, someone is watching and seeing what we are doing and it will make them do it even more. so a lot of times you have prisons that are just erupting and nobody out here even here is of it. >> did you have any sort of survival skill because there are still the eye is on that debt through that you left that you

didn't deserve to be here but here you are out in the world. >> i don't know. maybe i was lucky. a lot of it was my wife. she kept moving forward. there were times i felt like i couldn't get up and keep going and she would make me, she would carry me emotionally, psychologically, spiritually when i just couldn't take another step and she would keep saying you've got to and she would make me laugh and look at things in a way that wasn't quite as serious. in >> schiraldi, meditation, energy workers and it is medical care, dental care, things like that on death row. putting the energy and to someone they plan on killing.

so i started suffering a lot of health problems over the years getting worse and worse and the only thing i had to help me through that is the meditation techniques, things of that nature. that is what helped me to make it through and it also kept me focus on the present moment. you have a lot of people in prison that go crazy because they are always looking towards someday in the future when they are going to be out. that is what they are living for. it's like today doesn't matter. i'm always looking at someday five years down the road, ten years down the road, a year that may not even exist. but doing it routine, it kept me focused in the present moment, which probably saved my sanity. >> do you think you could have lived out your days in that prison if you had to and have some relative measure of, you know, to use the real world happy life? >> i think i would have lived for maybe a year at the most or

launder. i we 60 pounds today more than i did when i walked out of prison because my health was getting so bad. that's why i took the deal. we were not completely exonerated. we had to take a plea that is very rare in the united states. most people have never even heard of it. when it announces is your exit in from the prosecutors a guilty plea but at the same time you get to maintain your innocence so it is almost never used and the only reason is so that you can't see them whenever this can to the discussion would a sign a waiver giving up all rights to sue the state of arkansas and asking do we have any reservations to fight with myself to come to the decision to accept that the answer is no because i was trying very quickly. ..

>> we we're doing a

screening of of documentary and then amended question and answer sessions with the audience. one gries said he came from arkansas and he was so sorry for ever thinking we were guilty. that mental lot. >> host: let's talk about your relationship with your wife it makes you want to who this woman if you see her on the street. [laughter] she sounds like an amazing person and one that saves your life. your life is literally on the line but you can never be together then one day you just live together and want to watch different tv shows.

was there pressure? >> there are things like that but it is a small thing. one of the things when i first got out i could not sleep without norway's so i would turn on the tv then all horror movies 24/7. french movies and everything subtitles of love that is a good movie. [laughter] when i would go to sleep i would turn on and the channel that would play all horror movies after would reach said i cannot take this anymore. cannot go to sleep with the sound of people screaming every night.

[laughter] >> host: putting aside the bizarre nature putting that aside his life on the outside the way you imagine the? is as sweet and unsatisfying? >> it is. i did not realize how much anxiety and distress came with it. i thought when i walked out of prison it would be a joyous occasion. i did not realize the state of shock. i did not take into account the had not been anywhere for 20 years. and never had to navigate

but when i had to it was incredibly overwhelming and terrifying. i had to make myself do things like go places i did not know. i kept having to force myself through situations like standing in line at the bank terrified me. i would have to force my way through to get beyond that. then i am not scared of it in a more. i had no idea i would have to do with that. >> host: you mentioned in the eyes of arkansas killed the of murder of three young boys.

all the people that have helped you are trying to raise money to challenge that to be officially exonerated? >> right now this case is closed. when the dna testing was done they agreed to pay half of the cost. they never paid any thing. we had to pay the entire thing. we had no money. we had to take out to personal loans then the were lance we had to go on and tour. the day i got out there was an audit of the defense fund because they could. every single thing that was

done in the case we have to pay for. there is a lot of things nobody has heard about the have to carry the burden. win dead dna match the victim stepfather research into that. they track down the truck that he owned to do luminal testing if there was blood spilled we did find there was blood spilled in the pickup truck but it was so old we could not do anything with it. also the kitchen of the house there was blood on the aluminum -- mongolia but it was so old but we could not do anything. the state did not do anything. case closed. >> host: reading your case

there are a number of them maintained that think you did it in their strident about that and very convinced. that has 400 facebook likes. who likes that even if they think that you did it? what is in it for people? but average citizens to claim to the notion? >> parts of it is misinformation. it is not very accurate or chunks of informational of dow i dunno if it is ignorance or they are deliberately being manipulative with the evidence information. i don't know. i think they are crazy.

i try not to worry about it after you have been but we have been through you develop a thick skin it takes a lot to bother you. >> host: what is the time line this will not be something you have to talk about day and/or day out? you will never be passed it emotionally but it will not just the about being put in jail? >> linney and jason and jesse are all three exonerated. and the people who did this are held responsible. [applause] this is not fun for me to

relive this over and over. i tell people imagine the worst thing that has ever happened then talk about it five times a day every single day. it is not enjoyable. you cannot allow the wound to heal because you have to pick this gab. but we have to do it. the state of arkansas will not do anything. if we let it fadeaway then none of those things will ever have been. we have to push it forward with the book, a documentary, continuing the investigation, if we don't nobody will. >> host: you are the person, written the books books, on stage, how r.j. sen and jesse?

>> i have seen jesse once but he never comes out of his house. already he already only had an iq of about 72 then this scarred him so much that he never comes out of his house never has contacted is terrified they will find a way to put him back adjacent is in seattle. the morning after regatta out he liked seattle so much he never left and decided he wanted to live here. eventually he wants to go to law school and tell people in the same situation but he cannot do that with the criminal record he cannot practice law until we are exonerated. >> host: you came here that day because eddie

vedder and his family, he is in a band. [laughter] they brought you here? and he was in the court room and brought us street here we left like refugees. i did not have a single penny in my pocket, or a suit of clothes with nowhere to go. so he brought this year his wife who is here, jill, took me shopping and got me an entire wardrobe. i used to tell her that edie will never let me back when he sees how much i spent. [laughter] >> presumably all black?

[laughter] speaking of people who were instrumental to measure of justice we want to bring it be in the blade and and an attorney who works with the innocence project. [applause] how did you get involved? >> what are the rules on cussing? damien echols has heard some swearing. [laughter] >> we were living in the same house.

hbo used to have free weekend i never would have seen the movie if not for that. [laughter] i think like everybody else they are outraged and because it was made into a movie we thought somebody was taking care of it but later did research on line to see their still in prison and nothing was being done. that is when we decided it was time to do something. >> host: i did not realize you went to law school because of what you learned to assist damien? >> afterwards rethought how

could this happen? somebody will get him out of jail tomorrow. that somebody smart would see it and i was so i leave i thought somebody would just let them out of jail that they would say shit, a sorry. wall. [laughter] then we found out they were still in one year later. i thought that does not seem right. maya decided to go back to school. that entities to do something i could not believe that could happen. >> host: did he you put

together an album? >> at the time i was managing a band i went and it seemed like a natural music related issue. with a cause the ribisi something like that in the works. asking the super suckers to do whatever they could get done and it turns out there was nothing done at the time. the movie had just come out it was not glaringly obvious. so to convince the record company and the band to get on board was not as simple

as it became later. i am a pretty good, man so icon to the record labels to give us money and eventually made up list of wouldn't it be nice scenario with the usual suspects and would pick them off one at the time. >> host: how do you get them? do send the dvd? >> tom is a weirdo. [laughter] i had friends with the epitaph he had to fight with his manager and was not taking phone calls that all. somebody at the record bebel gave me his fax number. i wrote to him letter and i

said it would be neat at least my letter is line on his floor. [laughter] two hours later the phone rings and it is his wife you could hear tom in the background saying this is the case from the movie and he is in the background blah, blah, blah. [laughter] he agreed on the spot to do leper everybody was gracious once they learned. i would not name the bands that refused but they did. >> you can say it. with biscuit. [laughter] >> i am offended you think i would ask them. [laughter] >> where were you from kelly

and danny others to assist you that when you are in solitary was it too much information to process? >> lori could tell me things and i would receive pictures and letters and i would get reports but it is different when you don't see it firsthand. it is only a letter. you think it is great but at the same time you try to keep yourself together for one more day. you are so busy trying to survive it seems a million miles away.

>> you had us. and you thought people are getting this. >> that was gradual. every now and then a newspaper article that was not complete the 100% against you. and was imprisoned today's and people said they did not believe i was guilty. as the years progress it was like a tidal wave but it was a slow trickle in the beginning but it can't be alive feeling that we were completely forsaken by the entire world. >> host: working with the innocence project, to talk

about a task i don't mean to pick a more stark example the and to take on all of these cases to get the evidence together. is damien case the worst? >> me personally because i know damien and i visited him in prison. he was my friend. but not even close. people were convicted with nine eyewitnesses that said he was in church. here at the innocence project northwest, one client was convicted in the

victims said the perpetrator was between 6.1 and jan the client was 5-foot 7 inches and she said he was muscular and our client was not a but it just goes on and on and damien was a false confession they questioned him for nine hours but none of the fax matched so then they question a 10. because the police the them fax them once the person has been fed all the facts they turn on the recorder and i think it is reprehensible. it could be worse but it did not feel that way.

>> other than getting your own documentary what can be done? the various lovable son of competency it seems almost unreadable what could be done? >> with the innocence project i could not deal with such a heavy burden to work on these cases when you know, they are innocent but what damien is doing every single person out there could be on the jury and the fact you have educated yourself i think what he is doing is the most important thing that can be done it is just to shine the spotlight

on wrongful convictions. after working for a few years number one is to educate the public because they could all the jurors. [applause] >> host: do gellar every qwest from other people who say they are wrongfully convicted? york clearly one of the most public figures there is only 24 hours and the day but you have to help her you can or not help others? >> i hear more and more and people say will use to something to help me? i have not been exonerated myself i survived by the skin of my teeth due to

tremendous outside help. what i consider getting involved to change the system and i said no. they said why? i said think of what it took johnny depp, natalie mains, peter jackson, my wife quitting heard job dedicating herself full-time one dozen attorneys, god knows how much money to change one case. 18 years. imagine what it would take to fight the system. it is like a giant machine. you cannot fight it. you can just do what we're doing right now. >> host: that sounds pretty bleak.

>> i try what i can on a case-by-case basis of anyone interested if he went to hear about another case start with tim howard who was still on death row, and it is a man and arkansas is still trying to execute but few are interested maybe getting involved start with tim howard. >> we will start with audience questions. there is a couple of microphones. where do you go from here? you will continue to guess the word out on the book and the documentary but you move

from new york city recently to sailor massachusetts ironically. [laughter] what do see your life like in salem massachusetts? >> whenever we don't have to keep pushing the case like this and not dedicate all of our time to get out of of legal tango of a bike to have a small meditation center were i could share the things i had to learn that saved my sanity for those who are in desperate situations. >> host: you talk about something as mundane as the at the bank by guess all of this has prepared you for a

lot of shit in your life? >> in prison people say how do you do it? the answer is you don't have a choice. whenever you get out to that is what you still do. >> host: i don't know you guys and what your priorities were before you were involved in this case but how has it changed you? >> she just said it turned us into people. >> the first time revisited damien they bring candid and his hands are behind his

back it is almost comical because you can tell right away he is harmless besides being a pretty good, man the fact he was in prison and was on this side of the glass was laughable. i always said mired activism like the '60s counterculture and it made me from being just an observer but to participate. >> in reading your book the trip not got in the book yet it is pretty incredible i

work on a radio show we have stacks of books but this one i was honored you are bright but also have the world's most upsetting to be the unlimited supply of books which you have been the person to go to college to study and learn about this or the guy living in west memphis? >> i think that would have learned more than most people that is something i have always loved i dropped out and would go spend my days at the public library reading. but who knows? i don't know.

>> host: a question this is something to change the to trajectory of your life forever. now the life you have you had to come by this life very honestly and a hard way but on some level are you okay with how it has turned out? >> it is not always the or fund or pleasant there are things that have gotten through but at the same time ferris is tremendous blessings that i am think before in my life like my relationship with maya why four friends we have made that have become like family.

danny, kelly collor johnny depp and eddie vedder. we have been blessed with iraqi this relationships and people we would not have met to other wise or the meditation a fire was out and could go to a doctor i never would have learned stuff like that so there are more things than i could never named that have been brought into my life and balance of think the thing we tried to avoid or stay away from is pain but i think it is true that deepens us most as human beings and develops our ability to empathize with other people as a great

source of wisdom so what i have had to go through has made me a better person. >> do people want to ask questions? >> i would assume that means i am doing an amazing job. >> host: that was a joke one of the themes of the book i noticed you are very by neary with people there either the best or the worst humans on the planet not a lot of middle ground is that something this experience did or were you always that way? >> everything in the book is

firsthand experience either people were being really good to me or horrible. that is the aspects i would usually see people who tried to hurt me i never saw the men situation where they would do anything helpful are beneficial. >> i am glad you are out. i followed every single execution case and i want to ask briefly i noticed most of those cases are being murdered by the states to bring of jesus christ and they will go home again can you speak to christianity and arkansas with your

experience? >> i thought it was grotesque as soon as the guy gets the execution date you have these ministers that swarm like flies. they did not give a overcapacity 10 1/5 teen years but now he will die and they could not get enough. it is disgusting. but at the same time there are a lot of good people from different religions. it is both good and bad but they always keep you going forward by giving you fall so. they say we will get this turned around in nine

months. with the dna testing they said it would take six months that they say how much longer they say about six more months they kept telling me that eight years that is how long it was struck out then that is when they come with the religion to give you hope the value will go home to be with jesus like day delay a carrot in front of the jackass to keep them from taking out and it is horrible. >> thank you for being here it is an honor and privilege for you to shares self so thank you.

i was disturbed to hear you're not offered adequate health care so what was offered what was good or bad or what would have meant something to you? >> they only offer what will keep you from dying. if the appendix explodes they would take you out within three back in the sell but it is binder they will not do anything. people what cravath huge tumors they will not remove because they say it is not life-threatening. the worst thing for me was my teeth. i had a lot of nerve damage they will not do that you

can live then paid or let them pull your teeth out. but adequate dental care or have being access to aspirin when you have a headache could be a tremendous help. doesn't have to be huge but what makes your life little less hellish. >> if you think there is no levity of the book the guy with one tooth says he will not drink coffee because it will sustain his tooth. [laughter] >> i think the thing you said about the prison system cannot be fixed by totally agree and it is important thousands of people will read your book so they know

that we have the largest prison population if people who have not had that experience i am sitting in his room and there are 500 people and talk about police brutality now find the people see what the seattle police do they just murdered 77 year-old man on the doorstep and when people start coming together and i will not stop of the itc everybody in this room to say we will not take this anymore. it does mean something. i have been frustrated because everybody in this

room should be screaming bloody murder and does make a difference and everybody checkout october 22nd. there is a protest next month. >> i will put that into a question. >> the point* is well made but having been through this yourself to read her a certain amount of responsibility to be upset by what is going on? >> i don't like murderers, rapists or child molesters. but keep in mind we have this mentality that people

in prison and deserve what they get or whatever happens to them. i would literally see people go insane. keep in mind 99% of the people in present very small percentage of our kept there until they die. most back-to-school santa cruz stores and move into your neighborhood. it is probably not of a good idea to drive them insane before they are allowed back out. [applause] do not look at it as if you do this for a murderer or a thief you are helping

yourself. >> my question is in regards to the constitution of the united states and the adr we can practice religious freedom. where we your experiences in present? were you able to practice your own religion? >> you do but they make it as difficult as they can. people would come to the present. 11 good from the tibetan buddhist tradition she came to help people to get ready to die. she did not receive any money at all and the administration made her life as difficult and should have

to wait for hours before they will let her and because they did not want to hurt doing that. coming to japan -- to the prison from japan one day they said no. now he is a security risk. there's never any trouble, the problems then they just said you cannot see him anymore. the of the people they want to really diss wiser those that work for the present better hard-core fundamentalist as the southern christian who say if you drop your appeal you tend go home to be with

jesus. let them execute. >> it makes me very happy to see you here. that in present to have that connection to you feel you would have made it without her? >> no way in hell i would have survived without lori. there were times i could not go on. she carried me through emotionally, mentally, spiri tually. she was a drag me on what i couldn't. even the legal case she did 85% of the work she did more of the attorneys and investigators combined.

what she was doing the physical things moving be closer she was carrying me internally. [applause] >> dishy hold that over you? that is a good argument. [laughter] >> kelly u.s said that damien case are you working with any others right now the should be aware of? >> i have not worked with the innocence project for over year but i would contact them but as getting to know damien a did volunteer to work in present

to see what i could do. there were a couple of people like found out that washington, we sentence to somebody to life without the possibility of parole at 13 years old. he committed a crime his name is barry matt the and he will never get out. i have not worked with in a sense cases for a long time but there is a lot of stuff that goes on in prison or in the system that is pretty shady and that comes to mind 87 is it where people that want to help can call and volunteer?

is there things they can do to help poor's said to much work to coordinate? >> fed director is years of review do recall the university of washington school of law they could direct you better. there is so much work to do in the community i don't think there's a shortage of volunteers to try to make somebody's life better the way they helped damien. >> could you speak to the children in the case it seems there is a lot of notoriety with the three of you. do you feel that has

lessened the significance of the three victims? you mentioned not only the exoneration of view three but to bring justice to the killer deerfield the victim's have gotten lost and i have not gotten to that point* in the book but how your son is adjusting with you being out in what he has to deal with? >> the victims were screwed as much as we were. they were spurred by the state of arkansas. there are so many ramifications of so many different areas that the pain ripples forever.

all of our families, the victims, their families, but it ripples out like somebody threw out of rock into the lake it comes down to the same thing it will only be corrected when we are exonerated and the people that did this are in prison and the people that allow them to get away are held accountable. it is the same thing in the end. justice is justice for us, the victims, our families, their families. >> the justice would be the same ripple effect. >> host: it is a nice idea but do you think

realistically that they could come? >> i think it is against all odds but at the same time so is the fact i am sitting on the stage right now. >> could you be billing to share your thoughts what happened to those boys? day you have an opinion? how are the boy is alive in in your life throughout the process? >> they don't. i never knew them. i never met them. is like pictures ic on tv but i never had contact with them. i never knew anything about them.

there's not much i can do with it. >> thank you for being here today. my question is a couple of points in the book to see your 18 year-old self when you were a kid and also when you were watching baseball with your grandmother to see her younger self in her eyes and how much that's geared you. maybe bad experience to see your older self? and what questions you think of later and now the your released if you think you will have those experiences again? >> things like that that

defied explanation like that incident are rare maybe once-in-a-lifetime i read somewhere called them miracles without meeting. that is what they are. random occurrences you cannot figure out why or how. you can drive yourself crazy to figure out or accept it as an odd president from the universe and -- presented from the universe and move forward. you just think you know, people so well. our loved ones, family members, friends, then every

so often you move into a deep pocket of weirdness that scares the crap out of you. it was scary. i was a child watching something happened and she was not my grandmother in a more. she was francis. %. this entities that had memories, thoughts, feelings , but i was never aware of because she was just grandmother. it is such a huge eight tiffany that it changes the way you look at life. >> we have to rapid of unless your demands grandmother which is unlikely.

>> was any kindness shown to you in prison by any of the prison guards in 18 years? >> occasionally somebody would tell you they did not believe you were guilty but the ones that are horrible vastly of number the one cinergy cent so they make life hell. the make and sell miserable that they quit or they get them fired. every so often end one would reach out but they would not last very long. you write about being in prison and your experience there and what has been put to apply new and jason and jesse miskelly but yet

people are crying as that asked you questions because they're so are appreciative and has a much sympathy. deerfield you have had way more love and hatred come your way? >> yes. the hatred was more widespread but even when the world hated me trying to murder me there were really deep bottomless pools of blood from different sources that kept me going. when it is on scales the love i have been given far outweighed the hatred. >> host: damien echols thank you for being here. [applause]

>> and david, his most recent book is called showdown the inside story hal obama's fought back. is the showdown referring to any specific incident or politics in general? >> both.

it is behind the scenes account what happened in the white house after the 2010 election. when the republicans and tea party knocked barack obama for a loop taking control of the house. the tax cut deal, fights over the budget, the debt ceiling, deficit reduction, egypt, libya, and how obama's made the decision and took the actions he to go up but to explain how this is done to set up the 2012 campaign. he had a theory he could make the 2012 race a choice between different approaches to government and everything

he did he tried to temper temper -- to other at to a choice. we did not know how things would end up on 2012 but i looked at his governing and elected strategy and it culminated. this is the back story of what happened in the presidential campaign. >> host: david corn. showdown is his most recent book that the national press club

>> host: professor, we are here to talk about your book indispensable. i want to say this is a delightful book to read. you deal with very familiar figures. you attack them from some new angles. let's died 10. you have a quote but is attributed to different people also charles de gaulle is most often accredited. what does it mean? >> appropriately it has a dual meaning that people call them sells indispensable and they can't be because like goes on.