education and commitment to industry, and a very heartfelt devotion to justice smith, a very sincere and authentic part of his personality. >> john turner of george mason university. we are talking about brigham young, a pioneer product. thank you for being with us on booktv. >> up next, arlie hochschild talk about the incursion of the market into our private lives and how it has transformed families. she speaks for an hour and 15 minutes at stanford university

in california. [applause] >> thank you for your very generous introduction. there is no place i more delighted to be than here community of cutting edge scholars, shelley and all that you have put together. what i would like to do is add to an ongoing conversation here about what i would like to call the two flags of feminism. and in its 60s and 70s, two

different aims. one was to hold up the flag of gender equality. is involved first of all the right to go to work. it is easy to remember -- it is easy to forget what we didn't have in 1960. women did not stay at work and women were largely absent in the professions. many women, in many states couldn't hold -- take out a loan from a bank in their own name. in my university, uc-berkeley at that point, three%, full

professors, 8% associate professors, going to the male faculty club and all the photographs, very august looking men, if you blow the horn you couldn't be in the cow band for example in 1960. put your arm away. so since that time and also women earn $0.60 to every $1 a man earned. since that time, i think we can look at substantial progress under that first flag for equality. today, one year out of college women earn $0.89 to every dollar a man earns, ten years out, 69% of a man's wage that women earn and a lot of that is due to what

shelley has analyzed as the motherhood penalty, very important work. we still see it framed by gender. we are not there. we are and what i call the second shift, a stalled revolution, still bear to better stall but stalled revolutions so when cheryl sandberg looks at all the faces in the break room or the lunchroom at facebook, and saying where are those women? she is fighting the good fight under the first flag. to get that first flag going --

wait a minute. you are not supposed to see all of this. let me get this. i want to be -- i want to be -- there. just that one. so we had to work on sharing, altering the notion of manhood so that there was a sharing of shores of the second shift. today we have made a lot of progress. the most recent study says that

the full month, a year extra of that women -- working women with preschool children were working is now in half just two weeks. is the glass half empty? the glass half full? let's call it half full. at the same time we have worked for a flexible family friendly workplace. we have worked for flextime and flex place and career sabbaticals and part-time work that is not just part of some larger 10 hour a day hold. we wanted to alter the very understanding of what a career is, job is. i would say again kind of a flat

terms substantial progress, but most of that progress is in creating more flexible hours. you can work where you want, when you work so long as it is a ten hour day. another glass half full, glass half-empty. but now, now i want to talk about the second flag. in the early blush of feminism there was an idea, we are going to fight for equality between men and women and we're also going to fight to transform the world within which men and women would be equal. because there was a critique, do men have an ideal life in those

ten hour days? do women want to join them and be equally workaholic? is that liberation? a critique of the cultural model of manhood and of society in general so that the idea is kind of a larger second flag. i would submit that we have launched 4 ridge with the first flag but have dropped in large part that second flag. my talk with you today, the conversation i want to extend to the center is about that second flag. as i have earlier argued, capitalism got men before it got women, the middle classes, women were staying home and men were out there struggling. the culture of capitalism came to be fine men that came to the find themselves by how much they

earned and the like. they were put in a more rough-and-tumble world, aggressive world, less humane world, we would say. so is that the world we would be equal within? or is it our job to change that to an? tuned? what i would like to do today is focus on one kind of transformation we could have in mind. there are many possible once, question the session we will talk about, but that is the tilt in the balance not just between men and women but between the fear of family community on the one hand and the skier of the markets on the other.

are we moving into and everything for sale world? and is that where we want to be? i believe that we are moving in that direction gradually and that it is -- the reason i think it is important for us to look at, i think we are ignoring it. we are ignoring it not because we don't see it, we are ignoring it because what we see seems so normal and it has come to seem normal in a very gradual way. what i would like to do is kind of share with you a journey that i have been on, what i have called on the market frontier. i am going to just tell you kind of what to hold in mind as you

are on this journey with me and that is that we are really talking about the convergence of three trends. one is the rise of women into the labour force, we are now virtually half of it. the second is the search for needed services so we can be in the labour force and raise happy families, and the third is kind of a tag along stealth cultural shift into what i will call market zeitgeist, market spirit because the political climate is such and the cultural climate is such that we hear that the government can do nothing right and communities strasser as we move around and look for secure

work but that the market is -- can do nothing wrong so there's a privatization of public life. we have privatized our prisons, we have privatized many of our schools, privatizing our libraries. because budgets are so pinched, federal gamers and parks, there's talk of selling that land to developers so you can have the money for the public school, high school band so there's a kind of a move of privatizing public life and the question is, is that moving in

and what our journey a okay. let's look if i can push the right button here, at the realm of services that all of us these days needs, day care, we could have day care in homes, we can have day care -- wait a minute.

i swear it is the right button. >> privatized. >> public functions. >> i have to point it there maybe. the button here -- >> see that work -- >> all right. >> maybe you could -- again a little signal now. we can look at homes, child care, child care centers, summer camps, and then these days

services are more sliced and diced and specialized so here it is another service that will scan through the different babysitting options, and you can better make your choice, or you can hire someone to come in and childproof your apartment or take those dangerous plugs out, teetering sculptures, and actually tell you what to buy from eco friendly things. i talked to a woman who said if you hire someone to tell you what to buy how do you know she isn't an agent for the very product she is pointing you to. you have to get another service that helps you pick the right

person. and then this is one of my favorites. you don't have time to party train your child, you can call in a specialist or you can hire a birthday party planner who would have an entertainer and i will tell you a little story of a man who decided enough was enough, he wanted to draw a line, much commercialism. barely saw his kids, he wasn't going to hire a party planner. and although his 6-year-old daughter had friends who did that, he has got the idea of party planning that there had to be an entertainer so he blew up

the balloons and send out the invitations, pin the tail on the donkeys and was all prepared but he also decided he had to be -- he would be an entertainer, so he thought what can i do? he got a great big hat and became crocodile dundee, could on these boots and australian accent so you had a gathering of 15 little 6-year-olds sitting on the floor cross leg and he was stalking back and forth and talking about crocodiles and how they were different from alligators and then he thought koala bears and kangaroos, sort of went for an inventory of animals and then he ran out of things to say.

so all the parents gathered, came forward, put their white wine out and gathered the children who didn't know what to do because they were not being organized. they refuse to being planned. so this all collapsed upon him and a neighbor came forward and said michael, get real. the experts know what 6-year-olds think is funny. so it became a question as to whether that piece of knowledge was in the hands of the paid experts for whether it was a deal as a dad to know your kid's to cologne. he conceded it. but the end of the story was his daughter who i talked to, who

said first we were embarrassed about that and then we thought was funny and now i am so proud to have a data jumps in. something for boys, something for girls. then there are party animators, you can hire a party animator, a lot of long island bar mitzvahs, to bid 14-year-olds, hire someone to come in, on, let's get it going to. and a professional enthusiast shows up in all the photographs of all the board's votes, same guy and then the thank you letter goes to the planner. dear sophie, thank you very much, a really fun birthday, had the best time playing games and

digging for a gust, for helping make my birthday is so special, love harrison. and some letters are just what are you doing today? kind of formed a relationship with the specialist. so you can also hire a dog walker, one on one, it is $15 for 15 minutes, 25 for 30, lower fees, the dog is part of a larger package, talk to someone who said where he drew his line. it is fine. everyone hires a dog walker, what else would you do. monday to friday.

but saturday, and people drawing their line. fill in the blank. group care, relations between dogs in good shape. then there are as you know, kind of of multiplicity of dating services. i will turn to one example of that. eharmony claims the am markets and competitions between these services, match.com claims to form more relationships, eharmony more marriages, they

have a data, they pass the sociological test. and in home gatherings. and then quite apart from if you want the romantic partner there are many services just for finding friends. on my book tour i had a strange, surreal experience. what if i were looking for a friend and i was walking down the street in new york and everybody was on there cellphone? i couldn't get anybody's i, so i said i will go to a park.

so i was in the park and looked around and that would make me the oddball to be looking around because everyone else was on there cellphone so i thought i will go to a restaurant and sat down at the restaurant and everyone was on there cellphone. pretty soon i was on my cell phone and i thought if i were looking for a friend in this area it would be a hard thing because it would begin with i contact. hello, good morning and that was missing. there's a new service, socialjane. and you consign up at pay, look for a roster of people, candidates for friendship.

the ad says it is efficient, and return on investment. how do you know people are committed to ones that sign up for social jane? you pay for it. and really want a friend. a simple little something, another cultural world, that is that tagalong trend that i am asking us to journey through, to c. okay, and of course you have a coach, many kinds of coach. how to find a job coach, how to keep a job coach, how to transition to another job coach, how to quit your job coach, how

to find a partner, how to stay with a partner, how to leave a partner, so many different kinds of specialty within coaching that there's something like that g p in all-around coach. suppose you have found someone, then even before you get married, take a course in marriage. this is described as the single most important investment you will make so again we are looking at language, and then there is the proposal. you wouldn't be alone on that romantic night when there is the ring discovery moment. there are five specialists in the bushes who are with you and

wishing you well and making sure it goes well. sort of an idea of performance that it can go well or not well and that you have to pay for it. and of course wedding planning has entered the culture and films similar to this. i will go like this. then there is that box of photos you never sorted, your family photograph. you can hire someone to come in and sort them and in their own handwriting, uncle fred on the left, get them all sorted out, personal shoppers is a familiar thing too. then elder care and many different forms of its, one of

which is to the a visitor to your elderly parents if the elderly parents visited distance so friendly, loving visitor. this is a small facility, a homelike facility for the elderly, then there are nursing home this. okay. after death you hire a service that helps you grieve, they will come in and help organize the ceremony. finally, you can hire someone to attend to the grave of your beloved. gravesite maintenance. the passing a low of one is an emotional, trying time for family and friends. the need to respectfully on your

loved one with dignity while cherishing their memory is important. always remember grave site maintenance is a service that will help provide you peace of mind. so you can do that. you can also hire someone to take the ashes of the deceased on a launch off of long island sound, and whether the bereaved are there or not, drop those ashes in the water. i asked the launch driver what difference it made, with the bereaved were in the boat or not and he said this. he said if the bereaved are in the boat with me, i get a brocade cloth and put it out and

there's an urn and i put the ashes in the earned and there's a kind of period of silence and reverence and then we get to the destination and i throw some blossoms out on the water and transfer the ashes to the sea. and what happens when they aren't there? i do this respectfully, do disrespectfully but there's no broke a cloth and no earned and there are blossoms and i said how fishing for some spiritual moment i suppose because i felt he had been given a priestly function, i said how does it feel when you put the blossoms in the water? he said they are pretty to look at but they also tell me whether

the water is going toward the boat or away so that the ashes will get on the boat. this is a mixture. you can kind of see what we have here. kind of a confusing culturally confusing thing that these are a services among which we might, any of us shoes, many things we can't do, working full time outside the home, and this is what i would call a market frontier because increasingly there are slice and dice little moments of intimate life that are the object of service and expertise, but now we have women moving out to work and services specialized such as these and

now we have a market zeitgeist. this is the third part of that trilogy. there's a new language out there, rent a friend and hire a friend with the click of a mouse so you don't have a friend, and you can actually think that the rent those together with this word that we call friend. and the language has spread to him, he looks a little unsure. he is seeing around the house chores, maybe take someone to a sporting event, not quite clear, but he is using this language. rent a husband.

this is a chain. letting someone in to your home can be nerve wracking experience, you need a person and a brand you contrast. that is why rent a husband is here. it is bundling the trust you feel for an intimate for the trust you feel for a brand. okay. and grant a grandma. you can say look, this is just a question of language. it is kind of cute. people do it playfully. what is the harm? there's something to be said for that but let's continue. rent a mama. this too is a nationally trademark corporation known for its high standard and commitment

to the family. it is this rent a series. the next is a service that in 2002 by the new york times as one of the most innovative services in america. what it does is take the function of job evaluation in the office home, so at the office you can have a 360 degree evaluation of your performance. you ask your boss, your colleagues, your subordinates, get an evaluation and feed back. now that service is coming home for men, for high executives and

re-evaluating is coming to the home and give children little pencils and clipboard and fill out the questionnaire, who is around the table? the wife? the children? sister-in-law is in town, brother, nanny, it is 360 degree evaluation, on a variety of scales. here are the growth summaries and investment guide and development plan for the father, how to be better as a father. there's a scale of memory creation 1-7. this fascinated me. i have to say, how the fantasy of control, that you can actually cause a memory in

another person, you will remember me, you might remember that i pointed my finger at you but isn't that a little more in affable and contexture will and even magical? what is it be remembered and yet this was part of the corporate think and this is poignant, here are these workaholic guys, and it is not altering the structure of work, it is still in a time line, leave that as, but help him try to be a good dad in the wedge of time his job permits. so finally, just to give you a

feeling for the kinds -- kind of touchstones of a culture, this is an advertisement that appeared on the internet, beautiful, smart hostess, good masseuse, hundred dollars a week. i didn't include his name. this is a strange job opening, i feel a little silly posting it but this is san francisco and i do have the need. this will be a very confidential search. i am a mild-mannered millionaire. that is the tip of. intelligent travel, but shy, new to the area, inundated with invitations to parties, gatherings and social events. i'm looking for personal assistant. here is the key. being a hostess to parties in my home, $40 a week. providing me with soothing essentials massage, $140 an hour -- coming to social events, 40

hours, traveling, $300 a day, managing home affairs, 30. all very interesting. at the very end, no professional escort, please, no sex involved. i showed this to my undergraduate students, sociology family class, what do you make of this? one student very eloquently said where is our culture going? this is a man who wants a wife but doesn't want to be a husband. another said i have never seen this ad but it doesn't surprise me. doesn't surprise me. that is interesting. they all nodded their head. is not surprising, not so much over what i have seen.

one student had the courage to say that money looks awfully good. so this is kind of world we are in. are want to tell you two story is drawn from this journey we have just been on and then draw some conclusions about the second one. one is a woman, 49, lonely, divorced, has a daughter named grace, a lovely woman who told me this. i want to find a partner, i have

tried other ways and they haven't worked but i am going to bite the bullet and i am going to hire a love coach. don't be ashamed to do it. i was ashamed that i am just going to go through the shame barrier and do it. she hired the law coach to help her get on match.com. two little markets moments but those were not the important market moments. those were not the market culture moments, those were just paying money. these two people never met face to face. one was on the east coast and one was on the west coast.

the love coach said you are now entering match.com, the largest law mall in the world and we are never going back. this is the wave of a future but in order to do you have to be careful so i will guide you along the way. first you have to know that looking for love is work. is not fun or romantic. it is work. she didn't draw a line at the idea of looking for love and then he said now we have to do your profile. i have to brand new. she said i don't know, i am in the market, you need a brand, okay. he helped her it to her profile and she went to look good on line which has some photographs

and said that one is okay, she helped develop a brand that could not be bland. you can't just say i am fun-loving and like to bake pies, you have to actually say who you are, the real you, put your real you out there, she said. and then he said actually market -- it is a 1-10 scaling you are 49. you are very good looking but i don't know, 5 at the most and most of the two guys looking for nine women so be prepared. and so she said okay, and you have to really look for your are 0 i again, return on emotional investment, how invested you

would feel in hoping that relationship would come to something and you have to guard that carefully. she had a shopping list, that he should be tall and play the piano and various things. she held it flexibly and he was very smart and a nice man, this coach and he said actually hold it on your shopping list, waiting to use see who is fair and don't shop too fast. don't go through the racks like you would pull out one item slowly. he is telling her how to be but introducing her into this world of seeing in the second seven-certain markets like way, this is the tool for getting to the human bowl that i wanted to

get to, drawing a line but she -- before she met mr. right she met mr. wrong and for have a year they had relationship but he didn't get along with her daughter, didn't give him the ok and that led to strain and as he was going out the door, by mutual agreement, he said i am going back on match.com and find someone just like you. and she thought wait a minute. he thinks there is a facsimile of me out there, that i am like a box of cereal. he has to go back -- to dial 7 and pull out someone just like me. so she felt -- okay, she was using this market rhetoric as an

orientation to help her get to a human intimate life goal but that this guy had actually gone gold way and was seeing her in a market like way. and she said no, she recoiled, she drew the line. that is alienated. by drawing a line where she is basically doing is saying one side of this line, i will be the emotionally caring, i will be emotionally engaged, i will be attached emotionally to those around me. on the other side of the line i will be detached. nothing wrong with the attachment in its context. the market is a brilliant invention actually and we don't want to sit down and have dinner with the plumber every time you

need something fix that the house. there is a realm within detachments within which to detachments makes sense. she was drawing that line and fill this man had moved her intimate life and his own into the detachments column and had become alienated. i thought about that a lot. i thought maybe the man was nice guy. he probably was. it could be any of us. the tool had turned into the thing made, the journey had turned -- blurred in to the destination. okay. grace drew a symbolic line

between a set of facts and orientations toward life that seemed okay. they were marked like a bouquet and one that seemed over the line. she did the same with regard to acts. when he was helping, she got help with that, pick up the picture and help with that but he also said would you like me to go through all of the replies you are getting? i have a good eye for who would be a good match for you, she drew a line and said no. when i meet my life partner, i chose you. we are part of this tagalong

cultural trend that has infused itself into services, part of that is a market way of seeing. we are not automatically mowed down by the market culture, that would be a simplistic way of looking, brilliant adapters, we're extraordinarily adept at your online's, doing peculiar work of keeping personal life and in the book i outline a variety of five main ways that are mechanisms that are ways that we creatively keep personal life personal. one example of substitution.

many people i talked to had a new oven. i don't know why but a lot of people had a new oven. they just did and they talked about it. come see my new oven. it turned out they didn't cook anymore. what was it with the new oven and the not cooking. this is a little bit of a substitution. you hold up, find a fetish that represents the thing that you miss and are relinquishing. that is an example of one way that we try to keep personal life personal. another is, i would say, actually lying. a very sweet story of a woman who outsourced cooking. who went and brought in a great meal that was all cooked

previously. and had it for her friends. and she wanted to give them the gift of cooking for them. but they began of course to ask that is delicious, where did you get it? and she said oh no, as such and such a butcher's. the guest went to this butcher and the butcher said no, she hadn't gotten it there. as with tom's lawyer -- thomas sawyer, she was very embarrassed. but in a way it is something sweet about it because she was trying to hold on to the idea that giving involves time and effort and she wanted -- those are just a few examples.

there are many others. so that is an example. grace is an example of drawing the line between us and the market. let me give you one final example and then draw some conclusions. for this example, this is a more sobering one. thank you.

many of these examples come from everyday american middle class life but there is one that stands out and took me to and infertility clinic in india, ending india, commercial surrogacy is legal, it is unregulated and if it is a booming industry. it has become the centerpiece of what is called medical tourism and the source of great income in india. this is a great clinic i went to. for the book, i interviewed a couple who very madly wanted to have their own genetic child and

who went to this clinic and the aid of the women was fertilized with the sperm of the husband in a petrie dish and implanted in an indian surrogate and these are our surrogates. they are masked here because they don't want their family and other people in the village to know what they are doing. for $3,000 they will carry to term for nine months the fetus of a couple and they stay for those nine months in a dormitory and their husbands are not allowed to visit, more older children because of the possibility of infection or quality control.

the head of this clinic was proud to run the largest a b farmer in the world. she said she wanted to be the henry ford of commercial surrogacy and wanted quality-control, she wanted her surrogates fair under her supervision. she put the money in the bank accounts on their behalf and she wanted to be an ease of transfer so she discouraged any relationship between the surrogate and the parent, they spoke different languagess, the surrogate spoke good jerrod be and the clients spoke english and they met for 20 minutes or half an hour and signed the

contract and would meet once again in the transfer of the aid to the surrogate and at the end to speak up -- pickup the baby. and there wasn't a relationship. it was very much discouraged. also the relationship of the surrogate to her own baby, that relationship was discouraged. the surrogates were taught to think of their womb as a carrying case or as a suitcase, as something separate from them to facilitate the transfer. all of this is to the american kind of sensibility. kind of recall a frightening mid

life tale. i had a great opportunity to interview some of these surrogates who are lovely women. their husbands were vegetable vendors who couldn't support the family. many work in shops or were maids. the money meant a great deal to them and the head of the clinic said book, the women need the money and the couple needs a child. it is a win/win relationship. what could be wrong with that? i thought about that a long time because it has a certain ring of truth. it does have a certain ring of truth. it does beg the question that haunts this book, that is part of a meditation upon i am

inviting you to have. where do we want a market way of seeing and where do we draw the line? where do we not want a market way of seeing? i ask the people in this book what do you think of this? some said why do we need to have our own genetic child? so many children need to be adopted who are orphans. look of the aids orphans in africa and the like and others said it is fine to went your genetic child but why couldn't there be family or friend or someone from the church who would offer, lot of women of goodwill light in your own community come forward and others said you might not want that entanglement, you want more anonymity but why not do it in a nonprofit organizations such as that is the british solution.

it is legal but through non-profit. another said it is fine to the for-profit. go to l a. it is fine. for it to be a for profit thing. so long as there's some kind of a bond formed between the genetic mother and the gestational mother, that there should be that and there were those, actually talked to a taxi driver who said i don't think there needs to be a bond. i said no, okay, he said if she has -- if the surrogate has one child, two child, three child, she has four child she turned into a baby machine and it is too impersonal. the world itself is confused about where to draw. it doesn't exist out there. we do it.

just have all the people in the book do differently. if you look at the legal map on surrogacy it is a completely confusing and contradictory map. one gynecologists said to me if you look at the communist countries it is banned but they do it anyway. if you look at catholic countries they don't. the protestants do, israel does. he sort of did it according to religious cultures and political cultures. where do we draw this line in this instance? becomes a question. one surrogate i interviewed didn't really draw a line at all. she said i wanted that money. i could send my children to

private school, i could finally put money down for a house, i don't care about the baby. but other surrogates in the dormitory said she has gone too far, she lost her motherhood, she is overcommercialized. so in one instance we are looking at how a line is clearly drawn and the other looking at how it is not. to sum up this journey we have been on, i began by noting feminism carried two flags. first flag is for women, struggle for women and men to be equaled but the second is to transform the world we would be equal in.

we have focused on the relationship and the balance between a man and woman. the balance between a family and a job. what this points to is the balance between the skier of family, community, state provision on the one hand and the market on the other. .. >> we have time for questions, there's a microphone on either side, so if you have a question, go to either side and ask it,

that'd be great. >> hi. thanks very much for a great talk. um, you talked a lot about the effects of this outsourcing on the person who's purchasing the service. what do you think about the effects on the person who's providing it? so, for example, the person who's a rent-a-grandma for somebody else, and do you think there's anything wrong with providing that service or kind of what do you think about it? >> right. i don't think there's anything at all inherently wrong in providing any of these services. um, in fact, one of the most poignant parts of this for me was talking to the providers who one life coach, for example, said i'd give my right arm to, um, be in inner city high schools and help 14-year-olds guide their life in a positive direction if only it would be paid for.

and, um, one visitor, elder care visitor said what i do is tremendously important. no one sees it, but -- and people don't know why i love this work. they don't see the motivation for wanting to do it also felt invisible to her. and she said, um, i would do this, um, for -- i think you ought to put me on an assembly line, and, um -- but we have to be able to make a living at it. so they were speaking to the erosion of a public sector that gave this to citizens in need. um, the providers were in a way kind of -- sold the story for me. one woman, um, kind of said, well, you know, the people we, that i, i service, she was a

personal assistant to a very fast-talking workaholic executive guy, and, um, she could see him, but he couldn't see her. and she said he gives me orders, um, why don't you, you know, call bill and jim and tom and give them the following orderlies, and he would speak very fast. she imitated him like that. and then she said i would get on the phone to secretary number one, hi, alma, how are you doing, and i would make sure that she received the message in good spirit and that it got there. and, um, then she would call the second secretary and the third. and at the end she said this man has outsourced patience to me. [laughter] yeah.

>> thank you so much for that wonderful talk. i was wondering so how -- do you think that these services, do they by monetizing or legitimating the services we think through to the masseuse ad posted, i think, on craig's list, does it somehow acknowledge the often unacknowledged of housewifery in a way that even for the people who don't pay for the service or as we're thinking back through history? is there something so powerful to be gained through this that, you know, the labors that were once the job of stay-at-home mothers were actually of extraordinary economic value, or what are your thoughts on that? >> i think you're making an excellent point. in other words, monetizing something can be a way of recognizing it. look, the whole wages for housework movement was presented on precisely that. and my response is, yes, certainly that's true. and can the visibility and --

and the visibility and honor touched to those invisible tasks is enormously important. much of feminist scholarship is devoted to showing that. but something feels a little sad to me, that if we need to do it that way, is money the only way we've got to say something matters? i think it's -- if we want to transform the world within which we would be equal, maybe part of the transformation involves, um, elevating other forms of recognition that, um, are as powerful as money. >> i loved your talk like everyone else here did. my question for you is seeing some of the examples you give of people outsourcing their life, some of these things are people striving for status, striving for perfectionism, and it seems

to me is that even if we had a better public sector, people would still be striving for these things. and the fact that people have so much money now, especially people at the top, i mean, it's not people at the middleover the top who are getting these services. and you can just through television, through facebook, through social media, we see what everyone else is doing. we see how good their kid's birthday is, the perfectly-trained dogs and you feel, well, maybe i should have a dog that should jump through a hoop and isn't biting famous professors, things like that. [laughter] i mean, how do we get, how do you separate what's outsourcing and what's just a strive for status and perfectionism when you have enough resources to make these things happen? >> that's a great question. they're so blurred. i think on the one hand there are genuine needs, and many couples said, look, i'm not out for status, i didn't grow up

with a whole bunch of help, but we need help, you know? and they distinguish themselves from status display, the whole forced kind of expression of vicarious, conspicuous consumption. and others played into it. but i think one way of seeing it is that we are in a giant takeaway/giveback system that the market takes away our security and makes us anxious, you know? we're not sure about our jobs, and we live in a very shaken-up world. and then it gives us services that are supposed to allay those anxieties. so time to stand back and take the big look here, you know? >> hi, arlie. i want to say thank you for the talk, and i really enjoyed

reading your book. i've been intensely aware of the ways that i outsource different things in my life since reading your book, so thanks for drawing my attention to that. i kind of have a question that relates to susan's, and it's about do-it--yourself projects. this is just a perm observation, but it seems to me that there is this growing popularity of diy projects. it each has a little acronym now. there's tons of television shows about it. i personally took a class on how to make my own welding invitations -- wedding invitations, so i outsourced to someone to lesh how to do it -- to learn how to do it myself. [laughter] but i wondered if this growth in diy popularity is related to some of the trends that you're identifying here. so, for example, this wedding invitation class when i priced out how much it would cost, it was three times the price of what it would be for me to just buy regular wedding invitations,

and there's all these costs in savings to my time and effort as well. and as i was reading your book and thinking about, you know, planning my wedding and being immersed in, like, making a lot of these decisions you talk about, i really started to feel like a lot of diy projects are a privilege for, um, upper and upper middle class people. and i started thinking a little bit about some of my upper middle class friends who make their open baby food and who garden and who can and have, you know, they will spend an entire weekend canning strawberry preserves, and i don't know how they have the time to do that. and so i was wondering if you foresee in the future a kind of a reversal of the trends that you're talking about here. so as outsourcing becomes more and more popular, um, and more and more of a need, do you ever foresee in the future a time when, um, maybe the most

well-off go back to doing things themselves because they have the time and the money? and i do think there's kind of a status, um, i don't know, just what you were talking about, a way to demarcate themselves. >> fascinating. completely -- there's another book right there. [laughter] but the do-yourself movement isn't just, excuse me, for the affluent. [inaudible] after the 2008 crash, a movement developed called common security clubs, and there are now, um, hundreds over the country, and they're now changed to the name resilient circles. you can google it.

and these were set up to, um, basically create intentional communities among people who had lost their jobs and had lost their houses. and people -- sometimes it was within church groups, it was neighborhood-based, it was union-based, but people got together, a dozen in a room. and each one would say what i need and what i can give. and they set up a skill bank, so a computer programmer would help other people fix their computers, and he had an elderly mother who needed care, and there was a caregiver in the group. this skill bank was also extended to a larger group of a variety of these smaller groups. they went around, this was, um, it was based in jamaica plain outside of boston where it's

very cold in the winter, and they winterized each other's houses and cut the heating bill in half, and then they had a pizza and a party afterwards. they did, traded things like a lot of child items that you don't actually use again, they would borrow and give. and they bought food in bulk. they basically, um, countered what was a trend, has been a very important trend after the crash. people turned inward. they didn't, they didn't want to talk to anyone. they were ashamed of being unemployed and in debt. so this countered that, and, in fact, people didn't automatically know how to live in commitments like this -- in communities like this. they had to learn. everyone was very able to offer help, but they were very shy about asking for help. and that became a new skill,

that to live in a real community you have to actually learn how to feel about doing that. that that's not a bad thing to do. and you have to deshame that very, that very act. so i think the do-it-yourself thing or the community version of we'll do it ourself thing is not just class-based. it can actually extend through the class structure. and i hope it does. i mean, um, i found that very exciting. but, um, you're right, it could be that this will catch on at the top too. i think you're -- i did a survey for this, um, project module through the survey research center at berkeley to it that was distributed to a thousand, um, residents in california. and can that way i could look at the social class pattern. and what we have there, i asked

them would they be interested in any of these services. the people at the top were, are less interested, fits your thesis, than the people at the bottom. so the paradox, the cruel paradox is the very people who can't afford to hire these services, the very people that want them. and double cruel addition to that paradox is that when i ask them do you agree or disagree with the following statement, um, you can't always get what you need from family and friends, but -- you can't always count on family and friends to get what you need, but you can always count on money. it was the poor who agreed more than the rich. so the poor don't have community either. i mean, and so if you completely

monetize the society, if you cut out government services and you erode community and you put it all on an ownership society to quote someone else, then it's really the people at the bottom that you're hurting, yeah. >> thank you. >> well, thank you very much. >> great. >> thank you all for coming, and -- [inaudible] >> you're watching booktv on c-span2, 48 hours of nonfiction authors and books every weekend. >> here are the top-selling hard cover nonfiction titles according to "the wall street journal." this list reflects sales ending december 12th. topping the list for the second straight week is the holiday

picture book, "the elf on the shelf: a christmas tradition." next, bill o'reilly and martin dugard recount the assassination of president john f. kennedy in their book, "killing kennedy." ina quarten is third with her book. pulitzer prize-winning journalist jon meacham's biography of thomas jefferson moves up to fourth after being ranks fifth on the list last week. bill o'reilly and martin dugard make the list again with "killing lincoln" at fifth. a new edition of the guinness world records, 2013, this is sixth. at seventh, the lego company presents an encyclopedia of their toy characters. at number eight, missionary sarah young writes a journal from god's point of view in "jesus calling," followed by mark owen's no ease she day, a

detailed, firsthand account of the mission to kill osama bin laden. then at tenth, j.j. virgin describes her way to lose seven pounds in seven days with her book, "the virgin diet." for more and to browse other lists, go to wsj.com. >> it all started off, i was a typical high school student. 17 years old, and i was walking through my lunchroom, and, you know, i knew everything back then. [laughter] and i was walking through, and a marine recruiter was sitting in the black corner, and he had his dress blues on. i'm telling you, this guy looked like he could have been the president of the united states. i started asking him a lot of smart aleck questions, you know, what's this for? how'd you get that? oh, well, i can hit a deer at 100 yards, not impressing him at all. so he took it for a minute, and he said, you know, so what are you going to do when you get out of high school? and i looked back, puffed my

chest out, i said, well, i'm going to go play football somewhere, and he said, yeah, that's exactly what i'd do, too, because there's no way you'd make it as a marine. [laughter] so quickly i realized, i guess that's what they're supposed to do. quickly, i realized i'd set myself up. so i went back to my classroom, and i came back. and for those of you that don't know me, i don't take a challenge very easily, and i definitely don't take no very easley, and if you were one of my commanders, you'd know that for a an fact. so i started thinking about it, and i was thinking about what the recruiter had done, and he had challenged me. so i was a bargainer. i came back to him, i left my room, and i said, you know what? if you'll pack your stuff up right now, i'll sign the papers expecting him to say we can't do it today. he said, all right, let's go. so i didn't tell my father. we went up to elizabethtown, steined the papers, we came back, and the only thing standing in my way now is my father's signature. so we're sitting in my living

room -- actually, at my kitchen table, and my dad walks in, and i'm sitting there, and he goes, what have you done now? [laughter] i said, dad, i want to go into the marine corps, i've decided. he said, you were going to play football yesterday. i said, i'm ready to go. he said, have you really thought about this? i said, yeah, the hour drive up there and the drive back here. to on june 18, 2006, which is a date i will never forget, i shipped off to paris island, and this is where i would spend my 18th birthday. happy birthday, right? but it's not really as bad as the next three birthdays, because my 19th birthday i was in sniper school hell week, my 20th birthday i was in sniper -- hell week of sniper school in california. so i had a lot of good birthdays. the following paris island, i shipped off to north carolina to complete infantry training, and after that i went off to hawaii where i would be stationed for

the next four years. this is where i also attended sniper school. so after attending sniper school, i quickly shipped off to iraq, and in iraq i didn't get to complete my tour because i was bitten on my right hand by a vicious enemy spider, and i actually suffered severe nerve damage, but i want to let everyone in this room know that the enemy will stop at nothing. they even train their spiders to bide us. [laughter] so i returned back home for trying to get my happened back, and this is where i became a sniper team leader in charge of five other marines. and we were out in mow salve i have -- mojave when my gunnery sergeant says we need five volunteers to go to afghanistan. and i said, what's the mission? he said we don't know yet, we just need five volunteers right now. i raised my hand and said, all right, i'm ready to go. so i ended up being signed to a small team of advisers, and we were going to act as advisers to

the afghan national army. and this is different because it's not used to like normal missions of going over with traditional forces and being around americans. we would live with two marines, one navy corpsman -- three marines, one navy corpsman and 80 afghans on a base. you want to talk about a complete culture shock, i got one. we did everything with these afghans from eating to drinking to building volleyball courts to mission planning to hearing about their stories of their lives. and it really helped us become a solid unit, and we learned to depend on one another and rely on one another. and i want to talk about the afghans later on because of what the current events are. but i have to tell you one of the best lessons i think this taught me was, is not to look at the world and not to judge people by their religion, their skin color, their financial status or anything like that, but to accept them for who they are. because, you know, i have to tell you, i'm guilty of having

what i like to call the small town complex. coming from a small town, i've got it. that's where you think your world's only this big and that's how it is because that's how it was taught. i'm 4, and i know that's -- i'm 24, and i know that's not the case anymore. but we always do that. we as humans are so fast to judge one another without really getting to know one another for what they are. so i definitely think it's something we could all take, take to and listen to. so anyways, we were stationed in northeastern afghanistan in a place called asmar. it's in the kunar province right on the pakistan border. and this was where i'd be stationed with lieutenant johnson, gunny sergeant -- [inaudible] and doc leighton. now, doc leighton was a navy corpsmen, but they might as well be marines, so i'm going to call him a marine from here on out. [applause] so part of my opportunity was getting to meet these guys and getting to develop our team because this was a group of guys

that i would eventually learn to call my brothers. because when advisory teams are put together, the brass just picks different skill sets, ranks, throw 'em on a team to go over and advise. they don't ever ask about personalities or anything like that. it's definitely not an absolute love connection. they just put you in there and expect you to get along. because when i met these guys, they were totally different than me. i was the only infantryman in the group, and we're a breed of our own, to say the least. so i didn't really care about them at the time. i was just so excited at the thought of me getting to go to afghanistan and get in a fight. so it didn't really matter to me. but what i learned more and more every single day is that these guys are the most important people in my life. each of us shared a responsibility to take care of one another and to support one another and to protect one another. it didn't take long before all the personality differences just melted away. and they are, without a doubt, my brothers. and there was never any doubt in

my mind that they were willing to sacrifice their life at a moment's notice just as i was for them. and in the end, they proved it. my whole team sacrificed their lives not just for me, but for all of us in this room. so some of you know the details that unfolded that day on september 8, 2009. so we were running a mission in a village in the valley. this is the only mission they, only mission planning they took me out and replaced me with a gunnery sergeant named johnson. now, gunny j was a big guy. he looked like a typical marine, and a fitness guru. he loved crossfit, and he always led the workouts of the day, and i can tell you right now, i always hated it. so gunny j was going to take my spot, for what reason i still ask the question today. so my assignment was to sit back and secure a position with all the vehicles while my team entered the valley. which i was uncomfortable with, but being e4 in the united states marine corps, you really

don't have much of an option but to follow orders. so the mission was to enter the village and secure a town meeting, because the village elders had came to us and said they were going to renounce themselves from the tal a ban. and this is how i believe we win the war, for what it's worth. i believe that by lowering the support of the taliban and by that and stopping their freedom of movement, we win the war and stop terror im. terrorism. so that's what we were trying to do on this mission. but almost immediately upon entering the village, my team was under attack. it was an ambush, and it was big. it didn't take me long to realize that it wasn't a normal ambush. i'd been in quite a few fire fights by this time, but it's like at the first of any fire fight, it's kind of like the dust comes in, you try to figure out any situation. you figure it out, and then your training just kicks in, and you just start doing your job after about 10 or 15 minutes. but not in this fight. it was like one thing after

another started to fail us. and everything started to fall like a house of cards. everything that we relied on in every other fire fight to support us budget happening. -- wasn't happening. it was like our mission was falling quickly like a house of cards. and the enemy was seeing it, and they were taking full advantage of it. after some period of time, myself and staff sergeant chavez were sitting in the vehicle, and we figured out we had to do something. we couldn't just sit back and watch anymore. so we requested to go in four times, and each time we were told, no. and we finally looked at each other and said, you know what? we've got to go in because that's what brothers do for one another. and we knew as soon as we were going on our own program that if the situation wasn't as bad as we thought it was, we were going to have to answer for it. but i can tell you this, i would rather be here answering the consequences for my team being alive today and it not being as

bad as it was than to be standing here knowing i didn't do anything because i was worried about myself and my team be bed dead. i hear lieutenant johnson start calling in an artillery mission, and with the format that we're taught to do, he calls it spot on. it's perfect. and the response he got back was his grid location was too close to the village. he said if you don't give me these rounds right now, we're gonna die. and the response back was, well, try your best. a few minutes later i hear gunnery sergeant come over the radio, and he said he had to call in a medical evacuation. he was trying to give a grid. and he kept getting cut off because of all the confusion, the radio traffic going over the radio. with his frustrated voice he finally said, give off the radio, i'm trying to give a grid for the ped advantage. so everyone did. so he started giving his grid

coordinates, and i'm starting to write on the humvee because if i can write the grid down, i can locate his position on the map, go straight to him, and i can find where my missing team is. with my star pee in my hand, he got his first three grids out, and he stopped. and that was the last time i ever heard from my teammates. after six more hours of evacuating out afghan soldiers and wounded marines and searching for the missing guys, a helicopter spotted their lifeless bodies in a trench. and when i got to them, i immediately knew that they were all gone, but it's like, you know, i didn't want to face it. surely it can't be all of them. this can't be true. so i checked each one of them for a pulse to only confirm what i already knew. and they all fell together doing their jobs as they had sworn to do the day that they enlisted in the military as every man and woman does when they enlist. they paid the ultimate sacrifice. and the details of that day are

difficult for me to communicate to, but i'm sure you get the scene now. so now my actions of that day have been recognized as outstanding and courageousment but for me to be honest, it's only the exact p opposite. because we live by the words you never leave a fallen marine behind, or you get them out alive, or you die trying. and if you didn't die trying, well, it's simple: you didn't try hard enough. and i was just doing what my brothers or any other marine would have done for me. and now i've been honored by our country and the president of the united states, and i stand before you as a medal of honor recipient. >> you can watch this and other programs online at booktv.org. >> with a month left in 2012, many publications are putting together their year-end lists of notable books. booktv will feature several of these lists focusing on nonfiction selections. these nonfiction titles were included i