likes of italy, the media had been covering the war even when the news was bad? it's true you couldn't record operational detail. on the other hand, it was very, very easy for editorial writers at magazines, for example, to speculate about what might be happening or what might happen next. and speculate they did. ..

"sellout: musings from uncle tom's porch." posts are at liberty university professor, ron miller, in your book, "sellout: musings from uncle tom's porch," you rate that you smile when you're called an uncle tom. why is that? >> guest: i smiled because i understand what uncle tom was actually meant to be as herriot teachers are presented in her novel. over the years both because of the ways the character was portrayed and other things, it's become distorted. if you read the actual novel, there's still that for tom to be an architect and this is a person who actually died because he refused to divulge the whereabouts of slavery and as he was dying to me that's a noble

character and one that i embrace. and so when i hear that term, i smile and it confounds people. but i might than tell them about the character. >> host: you've probably gotten some response to which a culture for. >> guest: absolutely, absolutely. a lot of times when you're a person of color and have conservative political views does your mother never intended for you. rather than run away, used as the title because it grabs you and highlight the themes in the book that if we have an honest discussion in america about the conflict of race, and used to be multifaceted. the book in fact in making a statement that we are a nation of cowards to discuss race.

to me if we can't have a discussion within the black community about the topic, how come you expect anyone else to speak candidly? and listed the names of who gotten into trouble in the names i talk about because they chose to be candid about the topic of race, accountability and how is it to the future rather than the past. >> host: who are some of those people? >> you may recall the naacp black-tie affair to use the opportunity to be critical of the current generation and their inability to take advantage of the game for the celebrates movement and took a lot of flack for that. he's unapologetic, continues to speak out. if not these events, and neighborhood churches where he

talks about the need to not let their circumstances to finance, but to take charge of the the rather than the ends. it's not a message that resonates well. other people at condoleezza rice, clarence thomas, kim black oil, the list goes on as people willing to present an alternative view. because of the back-and-forth of name-calling and other things, i felt to write about it or not just a book policies, but a personal days. it's where the leaves and values, the things we were taught if you stripped away the conservative and allegiances to the line with the value. when i went away to college and started to examine that, it didn't understand that dichotomy and eventually in my view align

my values with the way we do politics. i think when people start understanding motivations in the wind and wherefore things like that, you begin to have the basis for dialogue rather than confrontation. i spent time talking about what i believe and why you believe it, but i also talk about why i think the community has certain views of the world in one issue or another. and trying to increase the scope of understanding. i'm a big believer that if you sit down with the intent that you understand and don't use language shutdown the conversation. i don't know if you're familiar with godwin's law, a tale that talks about dissolved into someone called a.

there's no room for further discussion. i try to divulge that in the book in the way i approach people on a day-to-day basis. having said that, if i sent someone a century for deceitful, i confront that, at least as they see it. >> host: ron miller, and "sellout" talk about living in louisiana as one of the worst use of your life. >> guest: as a military brat, not being accustomed to a school where you had predominantly black student in the attitudes that came with it, here i am, a kid that dressed a certain way, spoke a certain way, had a certain respect for authority

and put you into an environment where those things are not held in regard and i was ridiculed. i was harassed, teachers pet, talking like a white boy, all these things are not made. the irony was the only reason it didn't taste too likely kids at the school took a liking to me and defended me they are much bigger than anyone else. i might've been held back a couple grades. but it is going through that experience and realizing there was all this animosity when it came to not just race, but the whole archetype of what it meant to be black. i talk about what it means to be authentically like in someone who believes in the dignity and work of every individual and how that individual was named in the image of god, i take exception that there's a standard that says this is what it means to be black and anyone who doesn't fit

in to this box can possibly be black. jesse jackson a couple years ago saying you can't be against the president's health care plan and call yourself black. why not? last time i looked in the mirror i qualified. so the whole experience i had an outlet near with a challenge to the whole notion of what it meant to be that. i couldn't wait for my dad to get out of there. >> host: when you hear the term post-racial, what does that mean to you? >> guest: it doesn't mean a lot. i think it meant something to some of the more thoughtful readers that i read shortly after the election of president obama discussed the possibility that now finally we can move forward because they recognize this nation is capable of not only embracing blacks as americans, but electing a black man to be the leader of the most powerful nation on the planet. so i was hopeful, but it didn't last long.

it's a lot of things like that that pop up. it had it not more theory than actual practical meaning. >> host: in your view, does the republican party have a responsibility to reach out to african-americans? >> guest: yes, they do. i think they fail to be quite honest. i was disappointed to hear that representative alan west from florida had a meeting on capitol hill with a group of black conservatives and invited the national committee and they didn't show out. by the pragmatic side of me understands they feel that they're going to invest time in building an electoral coalition, they probably are went to get a whole lot out of work in the black community. it is a person the political arena as they are very much into a return on investment approach to dealing with voters.

they go after particular demographic, it's going to dismissing the thought. that's essentially what they've concluded that there is no fertile ground and that's a mistake. i think they need to take a long-term view. i think they need to remember why the republican party was created in the first place and in each of me connect, not only politically, but philosophically because i believe fundamentally the black community and conservative community. i believe there are emotional issues that have crowded that relationship. i also told people they talk about the racist fringe of the republican party. i tell them you have the racist fringe, but then you have the soft bigotry of low expectations that permeate liberal views that the black community. which one do you prefer? >> guest: they

commit to building relationships. not that they see immediate terms in the selection of the next one, but i know for myself i felt much less lonely than back in the 70s because i know in social media, for example, i encounter hundreds of black candidates and i figure if i have 300 or 40900 on facebook, that tells me is a significant number out there in the general population and for whatever reason, maybe because the election of president obama, they feel compelled to speak and express their point of view and that is an incredible change and one that the republican party if they get their act together can use to their benefit. to me the black community benefits from having a comprehensive dialogue. to have a one-sided as they

going benefit anyone because one side will take you for granted and the other will for you. >> host: ron miller, in "sellout" praised newt gingrich. >> guest: well, i praised him because he seems to have an understanding for the republican party falls down on the job when it comes to reaching down to people of color. interestingly enough being from the south seems to have a much more acute sensitivity to the relationships between black and white americans and others. i won't say i agree on everything, but i know when the republican party struggled to get candidates to appear back into destiny, which are specifically geared towards minority voters and issues, he was one of the people that came out of was highly critical of his candidates for whatever reason chose not to attend. ironically mitt romney was one of those candidates.

but i feel like he's been affected by a lot but have been in the south. i understand reading this on background he was profoundly affected by the assassination of the hurricane. obviously she and her been came our good friend. i feel he had a pulse on the conservative republican out reach to the community upon the candidates don't have. >> host: as far as racial relations in the u.s., do you believe the election of barack obama's president with this step forward just on the face? >> guest: on its face to a step forward. i think what is disappointed me vision of leadership as he is, he has the opportunity to salute those things over, to move us toward a different kind of race relations. i think because of ideology, he chooses not to do that. i wonder sometimes given his

background whether he actually has the kind of leadership that we need to bring black and white americans together in equal areas that the american dream. i think this where polarization. i wrote the book in 2010 are right about the time the police bp came out with a resolution of tea party elements of racism. in doing that, i thought let's start talking about this. let's get past the political superficialities that the deceit and get deeper into things. sad to say thanks i wrote about are still relevant today because i haven't seen anything change. if anything, i think racial tensions are high now as they've been in my lifetime. >> host: we are currently going through another potentially racial incident, the trade by martin incident. what are your thoughts about that?

>> guest: based on what i know, i may not have all the information. i think there was malice and forethought on the part of the shooter and i think he did shoot this person because of his perception as a young black man walking in that neighborhood. i've never said that racism didn't exist and i wouldn't say we're not going to have these kinds of incidents. it's unfortunate we have people who are going to use these incidents for their agendas. i think it's appropriate to be indignant, to be angry, but i think to go into the fray and stirrup anchoress reverend sharpton has done at a cost provocations that i think are necessary, we see that the federal government and state of florida acting as they should act to investigate. we've seen the police chief. they are happening they stir up

emotions, but unfortunately of the black agenda in america today is driven by emotions, inability and those that they are with no issues within the scabs off. >> host: professor miller, what do you teach? >> guest: and an assistant professor of government, so i teach american exceptionalism, a primary class and also associate dean for the online programs for the school of government. robust and criminal politics, prelaw programs incise naturalization. >> host: is america an exceptional nation? >> guest: yes, i believe it is. i don't believe it is for any other reason than it's built on an ideal and it's an idea of the nation strives and strains to live up to, but at least this one in our history we've always

come out of these conflicts better than we were when we went into that. it's tragic sometimes has the civil war proved and sometimes it takes a long time, but as long as we are awaited to do a deal with the declaration of independence that all men are created equal and in death by their creator with certain inalienable rights. as long as we get two back him if that's what makes this exceptional. not that we are great, but strive to. >> host: who is an neck? what you write about her? >> guest: my wife. she is from hockenheim, france. she's probably the most apolitical person in the world. i did have her read at the connected get her seal of approval. but she was see her out there anytime soon. she's one of those people that likes to sit back and take in information and act in a quiet,

confident manner. >> host: you talk about to see guess who's coming to dinner. >> guest: a friend of mine comes in to dinner is one of them to the spirits of his home in this relatively new to the country. she just arrived in texas per semester abroad. afterward she approached me and wanted to know what the fuss is all about because obviously the movie talks about sidney poitiers as the young white girl on how her family handles five. i used a quote from the character in that movie, isabelle stanford and this is something entirely different. believe me you get a lot of that even today. she didn't understand it and i was so refreshing to me. not only did it give me chance to take an expert on race

relations, it was just great to know that from her perspective she was not looking at me through that prism of race. i always told people when i was in college there was a lot of tension about the issue of interracial dating. i proved through my life, 28 years this july. will ms be doing something right or she's much more tolerant. postcode in conclusion, we restarted, can we have an honest relation -- you we have an honest discussion about race relations? >> guest: , hope the person that i believe that starts with me in terms of how we deal with people. i get a lot of people that will communicate with me through facebook or other social media. they cannot be in a confrontational way. i respond with grace.

you'd be amazed if you stay in the mode of responding respectfully and graciously, they start to break down and eventually get to a point where you can have the conversations. i will never refrain from speaking truth to power. i will always come back to town with grace and hope fully open doors for talking. posts are topped at liberty university professor, ron miller about his book "sellout: musings from uncle tom's porch." >> book to be topped with nancy sherman about her latest book, "the untold war." professor sherman was

interviewed as part of a tedious college series. it's about half an hour. >> host: nancy sherman, what do you do for a living? >> guest: i have a glorious job of being a professor. i will teach at georgetown university and this year at the woodrow wilson center is a public policy scholar, so occasionally i read books. i talked to lots of veterans and soldiers about going to war and coming home to the suit states. poster with your connection to the naval academy? >> guest: i used to teach at the naval academy for two and half years. as their inaugural distinguished chair in ethics. they had a cheating scandal and there in the limelight being near washington and needed to brainstorm about how to teach ethics, so they called me and.

weigh me, that's a good question. i've taught ethics at georgetown for 20 years and some of that before yelena scratcher receipt. and they were surprised there have been people cici affixes part of the curriculum. so we modified the course to talk about character and more and sailors and marines. this absolutely fascinating. poster with your educational background? >> guest: every two bryn mawr college, proud women's college in pennsylvania. and then i had a stint abroad. the second is scotland. then i came back and went to harvard, a phd from harvard in philosophy. and then after harvard i started

teaching aikido, where's associate professor but then came to georgetown but they stand that the naval academy and a few other lectureship theater and there. >> host: this is your first exposure to soldiers or had she been exposed to them before? >> guest: it's an interesting history. and that has been working she serve in vietnam. but in one case is a graduate school deferment. my husband's case and my brother was for medical reasons not eligible. and that was, as you know, a momentous come historical moment on college campuses in the late 60s, early 70s. it was an unpopular war and

given there was prescription is an unpopular work. so when i went to the naval academy, i ended up serving, as i like to say next to kernels who had been in the palm and navy captain who'd navy chaplains. my formative years came back me, but now with individuals who had then there is supposed to those who have been the mall in washington protesting the war. but also a came back to me and probably the most significant full circle for me was that my dad is a world war ii veteran. he was a medic. and he was silent of the laconic generation, never spoke. when i showed that i had real

professional credentials now and the military committee has stripes badges, my dad took an interest and begin talking about his words. as the daughter is that world war ii veteran, that was about the most wonderful thing that could happen. he opened up their life for me. >> host: dr. nancy sherman, your most recent book is called "the untold war: inside the hearts, minds, and souls of our soldiers." i want to read a little pass this year than have you expand on it if you would. this is from the prologue. you write soldiers are genuinely torn. they wish they wanted a nobler justice. they feel pride and patriotism tinged with shame, complicity, betrayal and kill. they worried if they have deluded themselves, if they left they were buddies with them meiser has been.

if they can be honest with the generation of soldiers that follow. they want to feel hope that they seem to mirror in and i miss missing. having back to their buddies body parts, they feel guilty for returning home intact. i suspect many have talked to me, you so openly because they sense they been listened to by someone who may help them find the chaos of for a small measure of moral clarity. >> guest: well, i think that myself captures much of what i aim to do in the book and hope i achieved. the book is testimonial for soldiers. the person who looks at herself in the mirror was one of my students or a student at georgetown who is a west point graduate, a basketball player, star basketball player at west point. and went and had it up a unit of

security detail in iraq and all was quiet. she had an enormous trust for those fisheries training, the iraqis. one night they were ambushed. she lost her arm under in a coma, medically induced for two weeks or so. they're all wrapped to invite blanket and her parents began to tell her what happened and she said i don't mind though. it was tired, but then she will not to be a remarkable patient to make a physical exercise program tougher than any physical therapist can put

together a rancid ceo or was that a beltway bandit kind of consultancy for the military. so the stories are resilient. but then there would be limited. she said to me, you know, occasionally albeit in a store, kmart or some thing and they catch a glimpse of myself in the mirror and there's something missing and i feel freakish or she went with others that to a beach in san diego and she's from san diego. she said the water felt so good on her body. she's been a little top and says i don't think all of the work being sued again. so these are losses and then very much reminded of a man in speaking to now has an outpatient at the walter reid bethesda naval hospital here to

years. and his parents who i spoke to us well said, dan had a beautiful body. you know, he's lost mobility. he's revalidating with remarkable prostatic, bionic leg and with a hard-driving alpha male kind of ability that many military men and women have it's amazing. so i get a nervous and variation. this is not an essay on warmongering. it's not an essay on the warrior codes or glorifying. it's the truth. it's trying to be honest. they're not conscription professional army men and women, sailors, marines, air force men and women that we often don't know because less than a percent of our population serves and yet

they're so remarkable. >> host: professor sherman, by the talking to you? >> guest: when i went to the naval academy, i have some learned more than i thought because it's a culture had been kept to a friend and my dad kept me out of it because he didn't talk about war and a nice family, especially became home for more than wanted to begin again. my name? i have a background in psychoanalysis. i don't see patients, but i've had a fair bit of training. and so i think it's critical not just for me, that any of us who fear of returning service members to listening with empathy and without judging. they want to be heard, but they

don't want to be sermonized or prejudged. so that's a critical part. >> host: can you give us another example of someone they talked to in the book? >> guest: there so many interesting individuals. an individual named derek fine is in the reserves i believe it ever occur to me the wilson center. i was a fellow number years ago for scholars and public policy scholar there. derek was mobilized for maryland and he really wanted to go to afghanistan. his unit was ready to go to afghanistan. they went to iraq. and he was part of an intelligence unit. he wasn't looking for weapons of mass destruction, but it was presumed that they were there

and that was part of the mission. and he said to me, did he ever find debian duties after he returned? now, to be suckered like that is a hard pill to swallow. this is a man who's been around the block. for his seniority, he was the senior enlisted, has served in bosnia as well. he was not a naïve young kid. there is a sobriety to his remarks. but i came the feeling and this is what i mean by moral clarity, a sense of betrayal he was experiencing, that he had been betrayed by his command in some way or by the president of the

united states or by the people that sent him. and he had to bear the burden alone. bearing the burden meant coming home and he was the person who backed body parts that were scattered on trees and infields and he played over and came home with a tape that would repeat in his mind that smiles and sounds of charge, sizzling bodies and flesh. so he came home and has to be integrated. there is a resentment of the sort. but it is very simmering, not anger that this regime, but simmering below the surface. and it comes up sometimes when he has to do with the va and the fact is that navigating the

bureaucracy and making his way through, especially in the national guard. you don't come home. you're not coming home to fort bragg. you're not coming home to large bases. to which underwent not. you're coming home on your own. so you have to work to make your community a bit. i think of that as well. he was not young, eager, appreciate 18-year-old who enlisted. he had been there before and still has a lot of adjusting to do. postcode is it easy to lose the moral clarity? >> guest: was has seen a disturbing and event, the video of the marine during nation over

that taliban bodies. >> host: to set the you? >> guest: and commenting a bit on it. it didn't fully surprise me. as the enemy got dirtier and more precise, yet the enemy remains invisible. they dart in and out of the population. our rules of engagement in the decade of fighting with counterinsurgency operations have become tigers, much worchester did. so if soldiers, marines can do on the ground for in terms of bringing the airstrike as much were limited. there sometimes perturbs we used. so they can't find that some of the revenge against a living, though they may do it against a dead. a former marine said to me, it's not uncommon that she'll have

hobbies at your feet and you're waiting for proper authorities to collect the bodies. to be the impulse to spit or defile in some way and it's really the command culture. if the leader, the sergeant in that group. i believe there was a second president who sets the tone, who sets the culture. and so the control in check of the impulse is just critical. that's what teaching at an academy like the naval academy or westbourne is all about. it's about how to be professional and ethical military member. and so doesn't surprise me? no. it's agreed this? the ice. this one small missteps that back international vocations and the taliban? yes. they're furious i'm sure.

it's a tough job and it's been a long, long decade. >> host: over to you several times in your book, "the untold war" soa. what does that word mean and how do you say? >> guest: it needs dirty. and it's feeling like you've lost your honor. and i use it in particular the guy i had, his name is ted was choosing, who was a philosopher, got to know each other through the circle of philosophy. he cared a lot about aged warrior ethics. he was also a west point star student and he wanted to go back to west point and was lucky enough to do so after he received his phd. see i served in a robust war and wanted to go to iraq, for the

adventure, for the thrill and have street credentials in a certain way. and when he went, he worked in a really messy part of the war, which some do this contract druce. american private contract terse, with iraqi police and security details. hence the extra judicial killing that wasn't authorized. he was accused of getting too cozy with some of the contractors. and isn't it just deteriorated over time. and the best of the best. he was the head of the honor code, but the honor port at west point. he started to unravel and he wrote a suicide note before he committed suicide, committed suicide in iraq saying his honor

had been solely. so it's a bright image that brings back feelings of ajax in the great plays, who feels his honor was so late because he didn't get to show that the killings. he's supposed to be the greatest warrior, yet did when the price. there's that sense and stature invulnerability. i think we sometimes forget the vulnerability that war requires because you're being exposed to so much. it has to be so strong and you can still be fragile. they had an unprecedented level these past three or four years. they just starting to go down. but that's the tip of the iceberg, to give you a sense of the real risks and soldiers

sailors take on as they fight war. >> host: if a soldier came to you, nancy sherman, and said was that worth it? with serious or? the >> guest: i can't answer that for a service member. they all struggle with that themselves. you have the lock off in a city word you say. he don't often get to pick your word. my dad swore was world war ii. for some it was korea and they felt they didn't have the glory of world war ii or vietnam in this generation, iraq and afghanistan. some may protest the war they fight early on and maybe you find out, they didn't want that were, so there should be a possibility for select is refusing an inacio is a movement of this sort of selective

refusal for sun to site in territory. others are struggling with this issue now when they see iraq unravel the day. they see the head the elders and operations. i think they wonder and worry. for others, the war will always be about each other. it will be about covering each other's back, i trust that is so deep. you read a passage about hearing that you love your body more than your family members at home and having to figure out how to renegotiate this family relationships when you see and experience something so vital and exciting and potent. >> host: this is your second become the military. first been stoic warriors, ancient philosophy. did you have, before you went to

the naval academy, before you started work in the soldiers, did you have a background in military -- in any type of military churning essays your father? >> guest: no, i am trained as a straight up moral philosopher. i work in ancient ethics, aristotle, plato, contemporary problems. the anthropologist is a new environment, but what i noticed especially in thinking about this book, stoic warriors, but when night came to teach this segment on the individuals like seneca, cicero, redox video. my military man in demand from its shipment to admiral, aided at.

they let it. it was their philosophy. it set me thinking why. partly it's because it's a version of it up. pennysaver shannon that makes that very real in my african writing writing stoic warriors pressed to say it's more complex than just it up or restricting your desires in order to deal with all the losses invulnerability's. if you read carefully between the lines, they're often struggling themselves with how much are they willing to give up in order to toughen themselves? and they realize that times that it's a blessing and a curse. so i wanted to expose that. so i got my training on the job you may save. but i probably about of tools of tools and a toolkit that serves me well. >> host: when he went to the

naval academy, were any restrictions put on your points of view on what you could talk about what the soldiers? >> guest: no, none at all. i very much celebrated i was very happy. i disrespect for in the wake and a university that pakistan's but the gist of it in situ like georgetown or the military environment. i can't think of one instance where there was ever a censorship. in fact, people don't realize this, that the naval academy to believe it's true, the best officers want their midshipmen to make an unlawful order. they want them to protest the unlawful order or the unethical and i'm reasonable behavior in the senior command. they want this to be the messenger that takes it right up, but they want them to know

it could cost you a court-martial. it shouldn't come lately. shouldn't fret about whether -- could you keep tupperware in your locker or square in the corners are yelling this or that 36 bytes, six choose instead of some great burning campaign, the trivia required to learn and recite in these academies. if you got an unlawful order or a lawful order, but somehow called into question your dignity or dignity of politics. you are responsible for bringing that up and partly the reason i was there that is because that was a small potatoes item that could blossom into a huge fiasco if you're at sea a lawyer.

and so, not so much sent to ship a very response about individual leadership is required. >> host: finally, professor sherman, what is to take away from this book? >> guest: to take away on the spoke in my future work is tied to the servicemen and women you see coming off the plane from the airport. i stand if they are your neighbors, with it and, they're amongst us. they have been serving us with a heavy burden and share the burden in some way but then and try to understand not just a visible was, the physical injuries, but the invisible wounds they may not so easily talk about the same way. and maybe even learn from them.

>> host: you typed about future work. >> guest: i'm not taking about the returning soldier, making peace with war, how to come home and be resilient, the tempo for the first on the adventure, but the vulnerability. and again, it's an example from which we all can learn. it goes well beyond more. >> host: book to the issam location at georgetown university. we've been talking with professor nancy sherman about her most recent book, here it is, "the untold war: inside the hearts, minds, and souls of our soldiers" >> guest: thank you very much.

>> max, joseph turow talked about tv about his most recent

book, "the daily you" college looks at the power of the advertising industry in the age of the internet. it's about 10 minutes. >> host: university of pennsylvania professor, joseph turow is the author of "the daily you: how the new adertising industry is defining your identity and your worth" and your words. professor, who is nicholas negroponte? >> guest: nicholas negroponte was a professor at m.i.t. who came up with the idea of the daily me. conditioned to what they care about because we will make decisions about what is on paper. the difference between that and the daily you is the notion that a lot of what goes on under the hood of the web is not conditioned by s. is created as a result of it will affect committees for marketers we see or know about. are they into a transformation

advertising that almost anyone except people in the advertising know about. >> host: what does that mean? >> guest: advertising has changed rascally with cable and the internet. originally, advertising was making an anticommercial and then putting on a few very popular newspapers, television, radio, magazines. with the right cable all of a sudden you had hundreds of channels. more so you have digital stuff and it becomes interactive. apart from what we know about, which is vacant top back to the advertisers, click on something, there's a whole lot of stuff going on under the hood, where data are taken from us. our views become creatures that are created by the advertise to understand as an change what we see on the web very often, more

and more as we move forward this upon what they think they know about us. >> host: but they do know about us from our use of smartphones and searches, et cetera? >> guest: exactly. they know, but a lot of times it's inaccurate and offensive to drop hints about the web than may have nothing to do with who they think we are. maybe we don't agree and some advertisers pay to get the year intending to buy acts. maybe you have a brother who take your name or password somewhere, but this development because all that stuff comes together becomes a rich soup that increasingly has been moved over to the 21st century will be deceived that defines us. >> host: hasa become more effective? >> guest: the windows. no one really knows whether it's becoming more affect this.

i don't care. i'm not interested in effectiveness of advertising. a lot of people from the industry summit in learning about, which i like. the fact is i'm more interested in the social implications of this. what happens when we assist society began to define ourselves, companies began to define a common television commercials begin to define a space upon ideas about us the advertisers and marketers know about which we have no clue here but i tried to do in the book is explain how that's happening and show the jury, where it's going and why. >> host: where's it going? >> guest: is going to a point where we play well that's a different reputation world center neighbors. it may be okay a.k.a. jeweler add because they think i can buy are about to buy more expensive jewelry than you. i made it to headlines from you based upon his ideas come to an

a's have the public click on the ad buy of optimistic headlines pessimistic headline. i may get different ad based upon how fat they think i am, based upon different characteristics that designate whether i'm heavier not come, rather than say so. so there's lots of things going on, not least of which relate to policy because if we look at the obama campaign recently, particularly obama used amazingly for today's world sophisticated face of society, who's going to vote for what, when, where the bat. >> host: professor turow, reply to look back at the obama ad campaign a laugh at how simplistic? >> guest: yes, that's true. posted is his watershed, but was going on now and 2020, that is baby steps.

the kinds of things people will be able to do with our data we can't imagine right now our weekend that will seem silly. the real interesting question is if it's political, can they do stuff that he then the government is not acceptable? testator marketing for politics is off-limits to any kind of regulation. that's a question they have a solitaire. >> host: whether privacy implications? >> guest: it just depends what you mean by privacy. americans have a hard time and it's very tough to understand this happening. if you go to a site and says you can disable the cookies, but if you disable cookies, you may not have optimal use of the site. what are you going to do? privacy policies are impossible to read in general if you read them, it's what i call tough

love privacy policy. there's very few places that allow you to negotiate. have that you don't take this data. maybelle that you take that data. in europe, they're getting more particular and more careful. eventually i arguably should realize is that this is about his dignity, respect, information respect. and we haven't got their heads around collectively the ideas that's really important to respect people's information as he respect people and everyday lives. >> host: who are the new not been up to 20% sure you click >> guest: good question. the computer modelers. that's the future in advertising. used to be the people who wrote diaz. they get angry when i say this, but the real center of power and advertising is moving towards the idea of choosing what kinds of channels to reach people with

and then the people who create the software event buyers that defines you and me and decide what we should get the software, this coupon is not that went. >> host: we've been talking on booktv with joseph turow, professor university of pennsylvania. here's his most recent book, "the daily you: how the new adertising industry is defining your identity and your worth". >> my cartoons depicts native humor and at first when i started this cartoon, they were native characters in native situation and ibm was geared towards natives. but in the last four or five

years, they've become more universal, with a spelled out in to the mainstream for dominant culture. so it's more universal now. i'm inspired by the people that i grew up with, my friends, my family, members of my tribe and just basically watching people and some things they do. it's surprising if you pay attention to what people do with what people say. there's a lot of humor you can find in making their own twists and certain things. i hope people who read my cartoons for the first time take with them an appreciation of the native culture and the native way of life because it's not always depicted correctly in cinema or in books, but this cartoon is coming from a genuine

bid for mayor ken and these are my views and even though they may not agree with cartoons are my views, they can appreciate it because it is coming from a real person that has grown up on the reservation and has seen the dominant culture and length of the dominant culture. says some of the stuff i learned from that type of back in my cartoons.