drone represents reid is the ultimate killing machine. it is sleek, you cannot see it coming, of who is behind it, if it is coming at all very much like the executives how they we're doing it to hold them up for retribution so you have one type of society and confrontation and these issues have to be discussed as they live with a global society. just like vice versa try to integrate the two. >> host: we have been

talking with professor akbar ahmed his book "the thistle and the drone" how america's war on terror became a global war on tribal islam" this is booker t. at american university. >> host: "becoming a candidate" political ambition and the decision to run for office" the author, american university professor jennifer lawless. professor why do people run for office?

>> guest: basically because it is something percolating in the back of their mind for a long time so release does somebody wake up and decide this would be interesting but i don't like my income then die will throw my hat into the ring it is so long and engage process. >> host: is a policy your ego? >> with of the biggest findings in the book is a gender difference men are far more likely than women and think they're more qualified and think they would win if they ran so there may be ego strength but certainly it is about the idea entering the electoral arena to make the world a better place. >> host: why are men convinced they would be

successful? >> you can ask fourth graders how well they perform on the test and fourth grade boys over estimate their performance men have been told they are good at what they do especially in the male-dominated environment and encouraged to acquire different qualities. they are more self-deprecating but because politics is male-dominated women think they have to be twice as good but they use a different yardstick to gauge themselves. >> what about race? >> both sects and race are negative predictors so any kind of minority status to deviate from the norm, we

see variation but political recruitment and close those gaps so if they encourage people to run for office they're likely to take them up especially among african-americans and latinos. >> host: professor, you give examples what is in example of somebody who developed an interest in policy and ran successfully? >> bill clinton is the most obvious. he writes out in the 16th year he decided it is an

amazing experience because people are so interested to make a difference and me involved it is the most unfortunate experience but is exhilarating to not to

want to do it again. >> host: tallis about your experience. where were you? what was the primary? >> guest: 2006 democratic primary road violence second congressional district the incumbent had was there for a while and prior to that was secretary of state and he is still in congress. the main reason iran is i felt he is not representing the district on the issues and that was important we were two-thirds pro-choice and voted 27 times against that. also we authorizing a egregious provisions of the pager fact, he was not very outspoken about the of war in iraq and i thought people of rhode island were not being represented by it rarely does the establishment feel the

candidate can go against someone so i felt i had to do it. i have just written by a first book so i was very aware of the limitations and because i was so cognizant i think i believed then i roundup with 40 percent of the of boat -- boat. which is not good enough. >> host: are you a single issue candidate? >> it is hard not to win only a few issues differentiate in my case it was difficult because the one issue was the traditional women's issues and became easier to frame as a referendum on abortion rates so reworked very, very

hard to demonstrate it was far more to bring about little -- a real leadership back to the district. >> host: at what point* did you say i cannot believe on doing this? >> no. every single day i woke up thrilled i had the opportunity. even on the worst-- when it was still worth it never did i think it was not the right thing to do. >> host: what would you tell women who may have an interest in running for office? >> guest: keep in mind there is a steep learning curve the you can add except if you are qualified before you get into the race for it takes two weeks to acquire the six can and qualifications to persevere but if you judge before you

run of course, you thank you don't have them. when i first announcer was running my parents were always very supportive said i could not run because i was the crier they did not want me to say people are mean. it is true the first couple of weeks were difficult but that is how long it takes. then your great falls to have the opportunity. then 99 percent of interaction is positive and most people had never met a candidate so they're so grateful even if they disagree because they feel they have an opportunity to voice their opinion somebody who is part of the debate. >> host: in your book "becoming a candidate" you have a chart, the elected officials there are in the

united states. >> guest: over 500,000 because so many are at the local level rethink 5305 elected officials of the president and vice president and congress put the system is set up so people run for office. we have races for hundreds of thousands of positions so if people get involved they don't have to go through a congressional campaign or rifling through their trash trash, most offices garner little attention and provide an opportunity to bring about positive change. >> host: jennifer lawless what would turn a candidate off? negative campaigning. >> and betty says they hated but mark my words the minute you find yourself with the opportunity old -- use these

it. if you engage in a negative campaign and your opponent is doing it finishes a close competitive race in you need to differentiate. we have reached a point* in politics we have completed the notion of attacking a person versus the position. and negative campaign is where you differentiate yourself on the issues you don't have to take down the trades or family or run a smear campaign that negativity is a useful way to educate voters. >> host: fund-raising? >> guest: everyone hates it. it is miserable but they're just as able and effective as when they do it. it is that they're not able to raise as much money but they're not running in the

first place. they all say they wish there was less money in politics but once you pick up the phone you probably will be successful. >> host: of those 500,000 elected officials how many are men and women? >> guest: we know that in the federal government 18 percent of congress is women and 45 of the states have mail governors, 90 percent of large cities have mail mayors but after that there is not systematic attention. 45% of the school board are women but those are not as likely to be the first office to. a future career. so people don't use that as a stepping stone. >> host: is that a definition of success?

>> most people do start at the local lovell and climbed the state level are maybe federal office. what i learned was low over 4,000 men or women it is important to focus your political ambition and the issues you care about to it is not necessarily the most effective route to to wait 20 years you are most affected about what you are enthusiastic. >> host: to have a case study of a failure somebody who ran for the wrong reasons? >> guest: we have a series of people resurveyed and interviewed, about 4,000 women and men, lawyers, educators,

pol itical activists and then follow up phone interviews with 300. there are examples of people who thought they wanted to run for office, so those who were party activists and their heart was not it is someone in lost it was not devastating because it is un clear they wanted it in the first place. we see that with high level politics that while campaigning we realize maybe this is not what they want to do. >> host: a week? >> guest: political scientist or voters nothing more appealing than the candidate running for a high level of us whose heart is not in it. one example look at the 2012

for 2010 house and senate races the most competitive are where they are spending all their time explaining why their vision is right. it is not a coincidence their competitive but they want nothing more to win and without that drive politics becomes board negative boring. >> host: you said we called and conducted the survey. >> guest: the research is based on an three waves of surveys starting 2001. richard fox is a professor in los angeles. >> host: did your last name have vague negative refecting your campaign? >> guest: it was memorable

at least it made people think about a. people would say isn't congress lawless enough? no. but frankly when you tried to build name recognition everything helps. if there is a pun on the name i will take it. >> host: what about the media? >> danny hayes and digested a systematic assessment of global media coverage of congressional races there is wisdom women are not cover the same way, ultimately the coverage focuses on their appearance that men are perceived as lead -- leaders in those of the traits of a politician so that negative coverage serve to the detriment for i felt i had a

fair amount of coverage but i felt it was not gender data all. to read and code from all of the races in the famine no differences whatsoever. not that women and men are covered the same way but to the overall amount has gotten more superficial so now i asked chris chris your paul ryan they spend a lot of time talking about their weight or exercise that may double the of playing field a bit maybe it is at the expense of substantive coverage. >> host: ltd. rice do you have for candidates to reach

out to the media? >> when they call, always talk. you need to build good relationships if they are approaching you there is no reason not to take them up. don't waste their time don't send out of a press release everyday. said not one that is newsworthy because they can come to those events then they will cover you would if you waste their time they will stop. >> host: what you teach your? >> women of political leadership in this seminar of contemporary politics the last semester i taught a class election in 2012 we follow the congressional and presidential elections in detail and women in politics >> host: water to conclusions that you have?

>> guest: it is a broad question but the two things that are relevant is primaries matter and even though ms. romney got through the primary unscathed it cost other candidates the nomination but still had the result of those spent came into the general election looking less moderate than he would have liked. even if you're not moving to the right to but the of the things i would say is women matter. one more election a substantial gender gap with had that since 1980 in all elections but here is one

more example of a president not being able to win without the president's -- women vote but he could keep the support with the president as four years earlier. >> host: will you run again? >> guest: no plans but that was the best experience i have never had. >> host: "becoming a candidate" political ambition and the decision to run for office" cambridge university press. american university professor, jennifer lawless is the author. host

>> 2002 iran that was working with us secretly to quiet the afghan situation will go up one morning to find out they were part of the axis of evil. they were puzzled having fought a war for tenures with nothing to do with north korea, why were they part of the axis of evil? we had to prove the u.s. and iranian relationship which was undermined with the speech over the past 10 years. then you get the iraq war one of the unwinnable wars the united states thought it had to engage in. obama unfortunately comes in with very little background on foreign policy never paid much attention, is served in

washington only two years i was enthusiastic supporter but those of us that looked at him knew it could be a problem and when he appointed secretary of state and secretary of defense for domestic reasons and appointed retired marine general as a national security adviser and put leon panetta, know he is a neighbor in california but captured by the mentality of the cia this was an extremely weak national security team and obama also was ruled by the military that is how you got the search of forces and i think he realizes he was had and that is important why i am a

little more optimistic with the second turn this is a wiser man and with the the fact he ended the war in iraq and meandering toward the war in afghanistan allowing the of pentagon, an institution of the fine motor skills of a dinosaur takes them a long time to put something together for withdrawal. all obama has to do is look at gorbachev. he came 1985, a secret speech 1986 denouncing afghanistan, he had them tell shultz they were getting out and then announce a timetable then

were gone. we need to do something similar. he had 11 commanders in 11 years. take a look at the books the general that the votes attention to is this. that is not a war to be successful no military ever successful where they have a sanctuary. not only that but an ally in pakistan to provide billions of dollars of economic aid that makes the picture somewhat confusing how would you disengage from the situation you support vertically integrated criminal enterprise called the of course, i government? but we are finding our way

as a resolution, i don't know how many years this will take. my optimism is the team that are too good appointments. wonder why obama wasted time with susan rice who was not qualified if we had somebody like john kerry when he was his whole career could rise to secretary of state and check cable a wonderful nomination and the criticism of him frankly is silly. people are throwing fat around so loosely it is an embarrassment to see accusations because once he said jewish lobby instead of israeli lobby.

he said that on many occasions so i understand what the debate is all about. i think it will slither away. he is a sound man with qualifications you would need. was very disappointed with obama and they betrayed us the see a director ricky-tick care of that himself taking himself out of the game giving adultery a bad day. [laughter] was obama thinking taking the active duty force toward general was strung policy positions on the key issues that officers have to grapple with? economic of a better scenario for localization to have pretorius at the cia that is now with truman had in mind when he created it

he did not want in the hands of policy makers certainly not military policy-makers but it was created to challenge military intelligence and when it has done its job correctly, that is what they had done such as arms control. >> a law professor at -- university here is booker? >> a biography of six african american civil rights lawyers to practice law during segregation and their collective struggles with civil-rights and racial identity. to be an african american civil rights lawyer to be caught between the of

black-and-white world both went the san to identify with these lawyers. so this kind of lawyer, a third grand marshal much as the african-american lawyer but the others. >> how difficult was it to become a lawyer during this time? >> you do have to go to law school like eveready else. but it is very difficult to be the lawyer but very few will have white clients in most black people don't have money if you do then you hire though white lawyer because they are more effective in a segregated society pretoria was difficult to succeed although not difficult to become a black lawyer