>> was, wasn't he? first incarnation. unquestionably the most difficult, yes. is -- oakland for sexual harassment >> i was surprised jerry pulled he had no choice. and then what happened is he ended up in europe but he is on his seventh wife. you might not know who are very good friend mamie gruenwald is

that she is maybe one of the best political people in washington. her father was the publisher of "time" magazine in its heyday and ambassador to austria. henry married louise gruenwald and is one of the last -- so just when you think you know everybody in new york, you don't she is it. mandy ran all the media for his elizabeth warren and tammy baldwin. the first-time presidential -- so you need to understand she is amazing. >> incredible, fabulous.

it's a nice small room. hey, undersecretary. well done. congratulations. are you enjoying at? >> it's fun, yeah. it's hard. >> is the work hard? >> no. i mean technically it's okay but everyone is super smart so i'd have to do my problems and then work on the board. >> i get it. i get it. >> at the same time i'm trying to represent everybody's equity. actually that was good training. i'm just saying that's the best

it was so personal and when everyone is a democrat and you agree on everything except with little gradations it's all process personality. in the state it's tribal but people are so much more sensitive. >> why? >> the press is more intent to a slide that they blow up were in local government they are so used to the slice at it there waiting for the big one. >> like whatever. [laughter] speier it's interesting to he's doing a great job on solvency but what we need is a plan for greatness. and they said newsome the tax

governor. this was the number one issue and i didn't say he lacks the capacity for greatness. it was interesting and i did one of those npr shows but anyway.!! >> how did you like at? >> the first year was tough.!! the shooter i am acclimated. [inaudible] what are you working on now? >> i have two races jeanne shaheen and al franken. they are both states that

actually aren't that -- much of the president which is a surprise and they are a little dangerous if they get the wrong electorate. we are trying to keep it that way. [laughter] >> that's good. >> what's going to happen in your state? >> he is already got $7 million in the bank and he has even opened an account. >> has now decided to go anywhere. >> uchitel physiologically can see ,-com,-com ma what is doing he is doing is working and getting them positive feedback. >> he goes out of his way to make sure which is fine. i get that. there's a reason he has been around for 40 years and it's not personal. i have been blessed. think about this, willie brown when i worked with when i was on

the board of supervisors with all his unique talents and skill set and now watching jerry browt people. but masters for me as a student this is an incredible gift to watch both of them. >> it's a dream job for you. >> governor. >> you don't care about the senate. >> i do but i love the executive i like doing. >> it will go one way or the other. there are a lot of people like you who like running things. he's really not shy about saying it. he likes to run things. and you can only run for one term. >> that's true. does the public understand how that limits their influence?

>> i think they probably do. you have to run every two years. >> i didn't know they change that. it's ridiculous. >> it is ridiculous. you have to run every two years to and it's. >> still? in this case i'm glad. how are you? nice to see you. it's good to see you again. >> i have to get the right mix but i try not to -- [inaudible] >> that is your dream candidate.

>> that's an understatement. that is going to happen. >> it's good to see you. >> thank you and thank her. >> secretary i'm going to be picking your brain tonight. i'm going to get the scoop off the record and get a few glasses of wine and we will set the story straight. i won't be drinking. you can't just go doing now so quick way. quickly. >> congratulations. >> thank you. thank you.

were you one morning joe? you are up early. i have been on every show, hannity so i'm having to deal with it. >> you have to be aggressive. you can't let harry and all those weirdos -- [laughter] >> it gets so much attention. it's unbelievable how the press eats that up and it creates a perception. wouldn't be nice if we read about jerry out there going to austin and houston and salt lake city?ta if yñqou want to change the national narrative. >> that's why you need to do it. >> it is time? it's a long speech, a very long speech.

>> so i want to move to the role of publishers. it used to be that publishers would take care of all the distribution and take care production and they would provide the advance and best series of services led them to take a hefty cut, 5% cut. now you don't need production. you don't need an advance because it doesn't cost that much to write. and you don't need the distribution because you can put it on the web. what is the changing role of publishers in this new world where production and distribution and financing are starting to be taken by different technology is? >> there's a lot in there. let me unpack it. i had disagree fundamentally with a couple of things. there are production, distribution, costs and tasks

involved whether it's digital or physical. i think it's a very common misunderstanding. it's very easy to think that digital is free and it's not. there is a lot of backlash actually if you will over some of the rony books and we have have an extensive backlist, thousands of titles that we converted. there is a conversion process that takes place and there is a lot of care and feeding that must go into that. you are literally scanning books to get them into the new format so we are not replicating the book properly. first of all there is a production of not just cost but an entire competency around production of a digital book and presenting their property. i'm actually looking at the head of children's publishing and we have these conversations all the

time. when you talk about children's books and how to produce something that is colorful and conveys the gorgeous illustrations that the artist intended. >> surely that's only true for the first copy. everyone thereafter is free because there is no marginal cost. >> you loose paper printing and binding. the marginal cost of printing and binding. >> what about shipping? >> and shipping. >> and the warehouse. >> not necessarily. there is a deep infrastructure that is needed for operations and the other thing i mentioned about the state of publishing today is if you talk about the future of reading and publishing

and where books are going to go is the big question. we are looking at a complete swapping of media and digital and music for example and film. zero photography that is. and books there is not going to be that swapping out 100% physical for digital. children's books and their strong desire to have a physical book to flip through with your child. that is today that five or 10 years from now it might be different but today publishers are in a world where they can be jumping tracks from the physical to the digital. we are truly supporting to businesses so continuing to support the print business while continuing to support the digital business. underlying that is the third business that you are cultivating which is getting to a place where we are not talking about the conversion of e-books so you are nearly taking what

used to be in a physical form and now pouring it into the digital form for the creation of digital products, the creation from creating a digital product from the inception, something that was initially conceived with the author developing the author to be completely new digital product. the world publishers in that scenario because one thing you had forgotten a think on what publishers do, truly the heart of what you do. it's the editorial. it's really bringing that story and shaping that story with the author and bring it to market in the best possible way. that still exist and exist even more in an exciting way when you talk about the creation of digital product -- products. >> shaping the story may be the only thing. there's almost nothing left after that. [laughter]

>> but no, seriously you are wrong. [laughter] we are partners here. she is not my publisher but she is a publisher and i'm happy but i had a very explicit arrangement with harper about who is doing what here and again because they came from more potential foundation i was skeptical of everything. i can do that. i can do that. i have got spellcheck, what have you got? [laughter] it turns out i was wrong about a few things and i was right about a few things and i learned a ton so in terms of the editorial having an editor was great. i could've hired a great writer to hell me through that process. i was happy to have the support of mary harbil. the distribution of the physical to support the digital, i basically godfrey advertising across the nation.

i can buy that. no single person can afford to distribute 10, 1,520,000 books. it's hundreds and hundreds of libraries around the world and digital only does not do that. you cut off the physical marketing so that helps support digital. when they ran out of physical books my e-book sales spiked so there is that level of demand regardless of format. the actual marketing of the thing by campaign manager from the book, we built this internet army digital plan. at harvard the more traditional plan and got me on "msnbc" and it was very hard. that is the network game. there is a finite amount of people who talk to a finite amount of people who make that

sort of thing happen in the flood of authors can't so i found i was wrong that publishers are useless. and i was glad for it. i wanted to make sure we were both doing something. [laughter] i learned about the upside in limits about what authors who create their own digital presence but there is a flood of readers and also a flood of writings in the words and tweet some blogs and there are more books than ever. how do you discover and how do you discern and condemn somebody that you are worth their time? attention is the courtesy and whether you are watching a cat play a fiddle on youtube or reached reading about the future of blackness is an equal choice to some people. [laughter] we are competing for mental real

estate and extra riders competing. a publisher who knows what they are doing can add extra weight or kickstarter or removing artist. i have a blog platform. >> i think that's true but you are an exception because you wrote a bestseller. the shelf life of a book. i'm sure that cheryl will confirm this, is a matter of weeks or days and most books don't make it into bookstores. we are living in a different world. i agree in this world publishers are crucial and i'm really worried about booksellers however because that middle person is beginning to disappear and outfits like amazon are transforming the way we reach readers. then there's a movement in the other direction that i think few people have noticed. there were about 350,000 new

titles published in the u.s. last year. that's a 6% increase over the previous year and paper. the book industry is actually doing very well although publishers are always wringing their hands and saying it's the end of the world. but compared with the 350,000, 700,000 books were self published. twice as many books are produced by independent authors who put them on line and have something to say. you might claim there's a lot of garbage among about 700,000 books but there is a lot of good stuff as well so i really feel if you look at the publishing industry and i don't know if you would agree, we are witnessing a transformation in its structure so some of the middle intermedia are moving out. somehow the public is moving in strange ways. it used to be said that books were written for the general

reader and now they are written by the general reader. >> good morning. stacy schiff who is a wonderful biographer of among others clay patrick, recently observed that led gophers all have two lives. okay in the back? can you hear? in one round she says the biographers, you are moving forward in ignorance. in the other you are moving back word with something resembling

omniscience and what she doesn't say is that along with the illusion of something like omniscience, the biographer usually has a lot of attitude on display. one can be worshipful, hagiographic, fallopius or one can be a good bunker, and unmasker, a muckraker. one can defend or defame, expos, sentimentalize. one can be a myth luster or a myth maker. and not many generalizations can cover the whole spectrum but marcel preuss could do it and did when he wrote in an early book before the big book, a little book.

there he says what intellect restores to us under the name of the past is not the past. in reality, in reality as soon as each hour of one's life has died, it embodies itself in some material object and remains captive forever unless we should happen on the object, recognizing what lies within, call it via its name and so set it free. as soon as each hour of your life has died it's embodied there and are under some material object which explains why it's so hard to clean out the attic. it's not stuff. it's your life, piece by piece. it also suggests the power of the central role of the senses and connecting things. to see it and know it's there to get it out. and the idea that writing can restore something to us, that

biography is an active recovery is rendell wineapple so wonderfully argues, is applicable both to biography and fiction. and here's another thing the two forms have in common that it spends wonderfully put by phyllis rose who wrote in parallel lives. we are desperate for information about how other people live because we want to know how to live ourselves. for me is that is certainly true of biography but it's also true of fiction. i want to give a single example from dostoevsky's and it's from a chapter called rebellion, which comes right before the grand inquisitor. i have in the oldest brother is giving ali ocean his views on the christian idea that there is an all-powerful all-knowing

benevolent god and that things will all ultimately work out for the best. ivan makes his argument from stories and this is one of them. there was in those days the general of aristocratic connections, the owner of great estates. our general on his property of 2000 souls dominators over his poor neighbors as though they were dependents and buffoons. he has camels of hundreds of pounds and nearly 100 dog toys all mounted in uniform. i am sorry to put us all through this on a sunday morning, a beautiful day in key west. i really am. [laughter] one day a serf boy, a little child of eight through a stone and play in her papa of the

general's favorite dog. my us -- why is my favorite dog blamed? who is told that the boy threw a stone and heard the dog's paws. so you did it? the general look the child up and down. take him. he was taken from his mother and kept shut up all night. early the next morning in full hunting parade the servants in front of of them all stands for mother-to-child. the child is brought from lockup it's a gloomy foggy autumn day. a j4 hunting. the general orders the child to bn dressed. the child was stripped naked. he shivers with terror not daring to cry. make him run commands the general. run, run shot the dog in the boy runs. at them yells the general and sets the whole pack of hounds on

the child. the hounds catch him in tearing to pieces before his mother's eyes. that's it and like i said i'm sorry. i then goes on to explain how there may indeed be an all-powerful benevolent god and how there may indeed finally be a future harmony which is achieved through human suffering but even if this is so common of course it is far from assured thing, ivins says he would personally reject any harmonious conclusion that required the suffering of that 8-year-old. ivan doesn't say there is no god. he just says that if his plan for us involve such horrors, he cannot and will not accept it and he hands back the ticket. i was 18 when i first read this and my younger brother john had just died a short three weeks after being diagnosed with acute you -- acute leukemia. for then ivan had it right and

this fictional encounter had more influence on my life than all the condolences and family support and help in the world. i loved reading it and i quickly found myself looking for help in everything i read. i like broad in anna karenina for his devil may care attitude towards paying bills. vronksy throws them all in a drawer and he sits down to pay them three times a year. i learned that the telephone company did not appreciate this point of view. [laughter] still with or without the bill paid for runs a's life was more vivid than mine and more vivid than the lives of my friends. and he seemed as real as any churning biography. so it was with book after book. i fell in love with small boats

and sailing through swallows and amazons. my friends have i learned caulfield in the catcher in the rye and of course there is poetry. i had more than one teacher whose religion was elliott's four quartets and we learned attitude from yeats and the greek anthology. we wanted to come proud open eyed and laughing. and i love the epitaph of an ancient greek sailor. a greek anthology transition by dudley fits, and wonderful teacher. tomorrow the wind will have fallen in tomorrow i will be safe. tomorrow i said and death spoken that little word. oh stranger this is the nemesis of the spoken word. fight back the daring tongue that would say tomorrow. we marvel at keith's ability to imagine what it would feel like

to be a billiard ball rolling across the smooth table. we hungered for lives that have the emotional range of shakespeare's sonnets. and if we were going to be saved we knew it wouldn't be by literature. it was the french historian jules michelet who put it is for me as i tried in my mid-40s to turn to biography to life writing. history said michelet, and you can think that he meant to include biography and fiction, history he said is not narrative. it is not analysis. it is resurrection. and i think this is some of what brenda wineapple has in mind. but how you do it is another and more complicated matter and i will not try to get into that this morning but wringing your subject back to life is a great and worthy goal.

so if i may quickly wrap up, to ezra pound's excellent advice to make it new, i think we might also want to add, and make it live again. thank you. [applause] we seem to be running a little early so we have time for questions. >> it's not a question but a huge appreciation for you and what you just said. thank you very much. >> oh that's sweet. [applause]

>> i think i am scoping myself with a question that i want to ask you and ascession next weekend but why not seize the moment? the first time i ever saw you and matt you was 2003 and was in massachusetts on the 200 birthday in effect of ralph waldo emerson of whom you have written an absolutely marvelous book. the gathering of scholars, historians critics and writers and the whole transcendental inning appreciating them are some from a whole variety of angles and lo and behold you stood up in the middle of this meeting and you said, i am bob richardson and i just wrote this book but just for the record you wanted them to know that you don't see him as starkly and you don't did chemical tests on

paper or the soul or whatever. you said i take him straight. i read him as a kind of uncle waldo and when he says trust thyself, you can admire the line and run it through any number of tests but you said, i think you were telling me to trust myself. and follow the theme of life in your own mind etc. etc. etc.. it seems to me that cuts through a lot of the stuff we have been talking about in hearing about this weekend in the sense that you know when all else fails it's an extreme remedy but it's possible. [laughter] they do talk to you. thank you. [applause] one more.

>> this is the most moving -- i have read all the books and certainly i'm going to go and read them again. do you have any other wonderful suggestions on books that we should read? [laughter] see if you haven't read them all again, read my wife looks again, annie dillard, american childhood. [applause] nice, thank you. [applause] >> we are here with errol louis the senior columnist for "the daily beast" and errol louis john avlon. they have written a second bynum of the book "deadline artists" scandals, tragedies and triumphs focusing on scandals tragedies

and triumphs. spam we didn't even know about the petraeus scandal but what happened that we can say honestly that this is the best book here because we did not read write it. >> that's indeed true. we collected dozens and dozens and settled on several dozen for people who like newspaper columns. you cannot find them all in one place so we found them for you. it's great american art form and you read people like jimmy breslin in h.l. mencken ernie pyle and ernie kempton you realize that this is literature. it's an american art form and is literature and history retton and that present tense. we give you perspective on our own scandals tragedies and triumphs. >> you can read about earthquakes are about floods closer political scandal or you can read about the way people are thinking about and talking about it and writing about it at the time. >> are scandals and contemporary

terms, there is no precedence. maybe you can close in on scandals of the 30s, 40s and 50's. >> that is what this book does. they give us perspective on our own problems so when you read about a new scandal and we have faith zero j. -- writing about o.j. simpson in the monica lewinsky scandal. but damon runyon writing about the al capone trial or the death of john dillinger. we have got 9/11 in our contemporary and steve lopez and peggy noonan and mike daily but then you read about jack london talking about the 1950 earthquakes in san francisco and it creates a perspective. we have been through a lot of this stuff before and great storytelling endorsed the great effective. >> the destruction of dabbles in which is almost never talk about.

it's a shame which is happened in new york with hurricane sandy hundreds of thousands of people affected and if you read about it, you see there were people on the ground who knew about it and cared about it and who are wondering at the time will anybody remember this when he hears upon by? will people remember what happened to this town and it's really important for people to get that perspective. >> we balance the scandals and the tragedies with triumphs as well as it's amazing when you read shirley hovis and john larson's perfect game never been anthologized before david runyon's poem the cinderella man later made into a movie. that has never been anthologized before. we found in the new york hoblick library and you get these great inspiring stories along with the stories of scandals tragedies and triumphs. in the new scandal we are in -- we have been through this stuff before and the details arise different but every generation

is the same. for people who like to read through 200 or 300 comments of a blog posting maybe take a look at what other people had to say about the human condition and about politics and the way things go in the country. you can really learn quite a lot you can read it on the go too. >> we look at our current meeting and we think it's fractured to the point where is their columnists now that everyone present can have a discussion about or is it to the point where we have our own small and niche is of our interest and who we tune into on the web or cable television and then we go back and have our small discussion? it's a great question and a great point. one of the points they make in the intro to the book is it's beginning to be possible in the newspaper era and the way the walter lippman had in the mid-20th century. that particular perspective might be gone but proliferation of voices and democratization of

the opinion is healthy in the long run. with this what this book shows us is that the folks who approached it today, and it becomes very predictable. those will not last. it's the story telling and telling people stories with characters and the struggles, those stories endure. part of why we love this book as working journalists is it shows the endurance of the reported column. it's an art form that isn't used as much as it was in the past but we really do depend on it to have that talents of objectivity and subjectivity, great storytelling with personal perspective. >> right now as always you can see people across all different platforms. we have a couple of mike warner company columns in here. you can see them on morning joe. it's not as if newspapers are

completely divorced from the rest of the media at this point. we appreciate people who know how to tell a good story. >> they are not necessarily writing for the big papers but there are great voices. these are short stories that really happen. >> final question, the subtitle is scandals, tragedies and triumphs and triumphs as last. have we always loved scandals? >> and putting it together some of us have a tablet that round so we used to write for a rival tabloid. we gravitate towards scandal and we gravitate towards tragedy. in reality this is the second time we have done it. always a lot of scandal and always a lot of tragedy. we do something uplifting as well.