we fought that battle a little bit and we lost. you do want to tell the story of america. you have to talk about triumphed. >> we are not being naïve. this has always been the stuff of breaking news and there is a reason people gravitate to it. we came up with the title deadline -- "deadline artists." it's an improvisational art form itself being done every day. it's important to end with trying up something redemptive them positive. that is sort of our moral compass. while we always pick up the paper to find out the latest scandal or tragedy is the triumphed at the end of the day and we wanted to end and focus on that. >> john avlon and errol louis author of "deadline artists" scandals, tragedies and triumphs, thank you very much. ..

>> and geopolitical issues.

and when i retired from the "journal" in 2006, the one thing i was doing with my new found time was trying to understand saudi society. how do the elected each other? '' was society like? how did they look at us? why did you do that? the month after month going there long -- my editor asked me when i turned in the manuscript, why did you do this? by said it because it is interesting and she said

paris is interesting. [laughter] why did you do this? make me understand. that was our only editing point*. so i will try to make you understand why i found it fascinating and importuned. saudi arabia was the strangest country will never see. is different from our own a woman never reaches the age of maturity, issues always under the control of some man. she cannot go to her son's school, she cannot even see her son graduate. she obviously does not drive

, she does not appear in public without being covered, and in the worst situation and she is chattel for a man to do as he wishes. that is not the norm but that happens. religiously dominated society in which men obeid allah and women obeid men and allah is distance and men are at hand. it is probably less strange to me as it is for most visitors because of my own background. like matthew from a little town in alabama i am from texas, 92 people for churches, one blinking

stoplight and no movie theaters. religion is what people did. everyone went to church and my father cahan was more conservative than the average person in the town. we were not permitted to wear pants, shorts, no alcohol, no dancing, no musical instruments in our church of christ. so is not some of ways i was quiet home in saudi arabia. i devoted my time to try to figure this country out because it is the one arab country street -- and truly strategic not because it is only the largest exporter of oil that sustains for western rail of life, but because i'm convinced will

be critical with the ultimate resolution of islam that is going on between radical jihad is and more modernizing and that goes on inside saudi arabia. to understand the society it is like someone coming here to write a book about america you could not go to washington or new york and claimed to understand america so i had to be confident i could get outside of riyadh, there washington, and i was permitted over the five years, i went all over the

country and i saw all kinds of people, the royal family but for people, and men, women, young, old, it was an advantage to be a woman because you could not talk to both men and women. western woman is the honorary man. so most men are prepared to talk to you even day senior religions believe it is wrong to be in the presence of a woman not a relative. in the beginning i had a one month entry the says that i got the three months that i was given the five-year will double entry visa and at that point* i came and went

as they chose an did not have to deal with the government minder and i would use a sulfone and a hired car from the hotel and called friends and get them to pass me to other people. my goal was not prescribe what it ought to be like but to understand it and what it was like so i want to talk about observation stand second with they may portend for vulnerability and that policy makers that may include some of you in the audience. saudi society it is much

more diverse than rethink. there are people who live western lives inside their homes and obviously people who live seven century life. it is much more divided than i realized and much more dependent on government. because most people work for the government. the divisions are quite deep so it is not as much a country as a collection of tribes with a flag. it is / region, a religious sect, the majority are suny but there are shia, divided by gender, and people have a deep distrust of each other so they

don't mix much outside of their family. so i will show you my version of how i think society functions. this little figure here inside a family, who was inside a tribe, which this inside a country ruled by the religious establishment and all of that is ruled by the royal family. it is quite constructed -- constricted society. the establishment legitimizes one negative legitimizes by giving them disagreed -- good

housekeeping seal of approval otherwise they would just be another tribe. 250 years ago, one of the saud met up and he wanted to lew concord arabia stealing the area had strayed from the teachings of the profit and muhammed wanted to conquer for himself so together they did concord arabia because it was more productive to fight in the name of god and saud. that symbiotic relationship has existed ever since. people live literally behind walls. most people's homes are surrounded by walls 10 or

12 feet high and they live inside even higher walls figure to flee. they are bound like a mummy to in the bindings of tradition and it keeps people from having much independence. but it is penetrating those walls and in a big way so young people and a 60% of the population of saudi arabia is 20 years of age. says those young people have grown up without knowing the impoverished saudi arabia

only the timing of the development done in the '70s and '80s as the population exploded many services deteriorated so young people do not have a lot of gratitude for the royal family for what they did, and they say why don't you do more? they are hearing through the media other versions of his long they're also learning to question which is a new seeing in saudi arabia. it will exist on two pillars of stability and all of those are cracking.

religion is one of them and in a secular society it is almost impossible to imagine in the omnipresence. every university, every shopping mall every place has prayer rugs with the proper direction so people pray at the proper time to leave the shopping malls closed, everyone goes to pray and i went to one day, of one weekend with the saudi family parents were educated in the u.s.a. and took me on the picnic and at

the end of the evening's the family was praying the five no prayer of the day. i was sitting on a rug and at the end the sexual came to me and said i need to teach you something. deal space to say when the angel of death comes? he could tell i did not. he said hoosier god and you say allah. who is our profit? use a muhammed. what is your face? you say is long. whittier works? you say i heard and i believed and muslims believe this great interview ochers immediate the after you are period if you have been a good muslim you are borne

aloft and shown the window of have been and then put back in your grave to await judgment day. if you have not been a good muslim and cannot properly answer these questions you are pulverized and put back together and pulverized and put back together for e eternity until judgment day. thistle galway learn this route of the dreadful fate. with the woman they would make my father looked liberal and and translated for me several dinners from the imam i asked if i could

live with her for one week and she said yes. said they opened a gay and that that is a rare she lives in an upstairs where this lady whether lulu lived and then with her husband came up every 24 hours, i had to go and hide in might room because he was not supposed to encounter, he knew i was there but not to encounter a woman who was not a relative. she had a tv but they don't -- only got the religious channels such as not allow any women because the saudi

state tv now does have winded with their heads covered in faces uncovered and that is totally and proper to her. i am convinced she allowed me to do this because she wanted to convert me. and the first thing she made me do was take up the family computer to put up the tube video 610 minute episodes of fundamentalist preacher in texas, she had done her homework, and when that did not lead to a conversion she called her brother over and we had more discussions. i read the toronto times fly during the first three years

because it was fine but the new information the young people are old people is eroding the credibility of religious establishment so for religious people late gene amdahl up or the will of allah. yet the team has built, a university of science and technology that not only mixes' saudi men and women but also within fidel men and women all over the world and the religious scholars talk about the appropriateness of this he

said it is wrong in making fired him because he appoints the people not surprisingly many other seniors men discovered his hair was washed by women and other things that made it okay. with a double standard with the deeply religious and also with those who don't mind mixing if the king could get the religions of purchases then why not women driving?

was part of stability with acquiescence if not loyalty 93 percent comes from oil well it does not tax people because there is this saying , here we have no taxation with representation and there is no representation without taxation. the royal family does not tax therefore you don't get the representation of. and the oilwells obviously

90 percent of the workers of the private sector are foreigners. there are 19 million saudis in eight or 9 million foreigners. energy is subsidized and sheep has now become a subject in the press and discussed if we continue to use more to exports of oriole to fund our lifestyle it is possible the government will find a way in the post hairspring environment they're not inclined to take things for people and the country has

$500 billion and it is hardly broke so to estimate it will exceed revenues by 2014. because after the hairspring when king abdullah came home from back surgery pastel $130 billion on top of the annual budget so more money for the statement played on the religious establishment establishment, and created a minimum wage the first time and class lee the of royal

family itself the pillar of stability the biggest internal issue is the aged and infirm leadership. the latest was declared 1932 by saud and when he died past first to the eldest son from half-brother to half-brother. soaking abdullah is the fifth of the boys and the old man had 44 sons it by 22 lives in 36 live to adulthood but they're now elderly, the king is 90 and already has outlived two of

his brothers and he is on his third crown prince permitted is reminiscent of the old soviet union in the '80s when brezhnev died and replaced by elderly by his brother in the replaced who died quickly then finally replaced by gorbachev but then it was too late there were three soviet leaders in three years' time and reagan said they keep dying on the. [laughter] that is what that is what the president's will be dealing with over the next four years.

they have no ability to agree yet on the son of one of the brothers because each branch fears if my son gets it then your whole branch is disenfranchised because we pass it down to our branch because it is easy to pass it brother to brother brett how you decide cousin to cousin? which cousin? there are hundreds. the king got around that by having an allegiance but council one person from every branch to decide but when the first crown prince died that group net and one of the brothers said i should be the next crown prince and the king said no. i will pick another brother and that was the and of one

man one vote with the royal family. there was the expression and decision in. young saudis do worry about what will happen. so what will these cousins quarrel with each other and with that huge interior operation so each of these is run by a prince that they will fight with each other that has happened in the past that in the late 18

'80s. if you're a normal saudi what is plan be? and most people don't know what plan b is. there is nervousness, frustration, and the country that had no experience whatsoever with civil society, most, or at least a few talked-about democracy but some simply want what they describe as justice what they mean is a government that is more transparent, accountable, ru le of law where with there

enforced equally enforced or not enforced as is the case but based on your so this brings me to what could happen obviously one scenario is the status quo that is the most likely in the short run because the family and i cannot bring themselves to agree on a young girl leader and even though many say their task to be changed they don't agree with it is the status quo is the easiest and it is further economic stagnation

and unemployment among young saudi men 2324 is roughly 40% not foreigners. saudis live on less than $1,000 per month. so indeed the wealth disparity has thinker among the lot of saudis. there is a young bird prints to tries to open up and revive the economy. the risk is it produces a backlash among the conservatives who don't want more changes and openness and opportunity for women that they say is the road to ruin.

if you got to a religious back class -- backlash modernizers. said to that backlash, the author is the leader as a way to control this is to revert to the religiosity of the '80s and '90s after they attacked on the math:mosque saudis turn the country over to the religious fundamentalists than 20 years of that bread the tears that produced 9/11. so the saudis understand that but and say it could not happening again, but it

is hard to do entirely rule out. the fourth option is chaos that leads to a collapse sparked by something like into the shed and saudis are passive but young people increasingly question why can't we have more? why does the royal family take more than their fair share? it may be as the family likes to say are as they believe the status quo will hold and it to have the royal family always come through but it could be different this time because

of the external pressure against the status quo and the information and frustration in because that family is difficult with a transition period. i will close with my metaphor which i used in the book, of a 747, with the cockpit full of the geriatric prince and first-class to those of would be keen and the economy frustrated young people some islamic fundamentalist who turns the plane around and the islamic

terrorist you want to shoot the private and hijacked the plane it continues to lose the altitude and there may be some they on the plane who could play and that it seems unlikely to get the opportunity. with that i will take your questions. [applause] >> there will be a speaker so raise your hands. because of cnn may want to make sure you have the microphone in your hand when you start speaking we will start with a student question.

see me after words. if you have a question this is a good time. >> my name is eric and i am a first year grad student. you went to immerse yourself in the culture, but my question is should we better understand them first? >> that is a a good question what is saudi arabia doing with public diplomacy? i think they are giving a few tourist visa but not

much. but i don't know, it may show student exchanges sino-u.s. springs students here for the state department tubers and i met a young man there who was very conservative and disowned his brother for listening to music in it '80s and was of sharia law graduate and completely changed his mind. he said it was the first time i ever knew that a woman could have her head uncovered and not be a whore. they have so many misconceptions of us by

first shift -- a dinner with the family of the imam is another comment wife, six sisters, they ask me to ever see your mother? they had the idea american women are walking around, if not have addressed it in office telling what or paying no attention to their parents or we are a family oriented society. overtime they got past that's all i do not know what they're doing to encourage people. i don't think they're doing a lot to encourage the average person to visit saudi arabia.

>> with the brand practice in saudi arabia is more conservative than the rest of the muslim world however in a lot of ways they seem friendlier to the west. may be a pass to do their revenue stream. you say it started as a fusion with the family one team to concord and the religious element also went to the same thing for different reasons. to be used by the modern family to control the population in the disingenuous way? or are they actually

religious? >> that obviously depends on the individual saudi. but no question that religion is used to control the society. the official position in what is reached repeatedly by the religious establishment, it is the only organization in the country. there are no other organizations. and said you is you want to challenge something you must do a privately. there is a whole islamic debate about what is the proper way to confront your leader but in saudi arabia and the fundamental view is you do not confront them

publicly. so with a summit in london and he said might is lawmakers view, they hasten to point* out he is not a religious scholar pet, his view was to call them now on not being properly villages. but it is not the common views of religion does put a straitjacket over people. .imam mentioned, i spent a lot of time with. he was very critical but when i asked him to confront

your rulers, even though it to cause a lack so to keep harmony there was the leaders is very important sofer is not real harm harm, maybe you don't mean in a publicly inveigled that is the way people can do things in their homes from drinking alcohol to having a dinner with women they're not married to or other gatherings is it does not disrupt the harmony so to

flout the norm, that is what is bad. >> i was just worried about the banking with wells fargo or bank of america, how do they get fdic? is it a regular bank in saudi arabia? toward do they have. obviously for the saudi banks there is the need to perform to be good to have

experts to tell them how to use this to ridges find is inappropriate. and not supposed to mix or have interest or infidels in the country but religious establishment of prove the presence of u.s. troops in 1990 when it was necessary. you're not supposed to move -- have reached theaters but there is some moscow in a movie theater side-by-side. and also one with the accompany it is not permitted in the aramco compound. it is obviously acceptable because but to go back to

the seventh century we don't disease with a profit muhammed aid out of the canoe reid should be doing that. so the country does get bigger, giving scholarships to 140,000 scholarships to study abroad, including women. putting 30 win in the 150% much of its escher which has no power but then the power of debate, this is again for

the real conservative, a totally inappropriate thing even though they are separated and covered, it is not proper in their mind. as he does these things, there are opposition and as it grows so to set up said cable in damascus he went for 24 for those who were killed by somebody rather quickly so he was asked how did you? this is practiced by the royal family now i hold the

hair between me and my people. when they pull, i yield them when the yield they pull. that is exactly what happens from saudi arabia when the pressure builds, the king passes nominee, and a sense students abroad come if the pressure builds in the other direction, these things can roll back as they did puffery and miscible governments in in 2005 as part of the men and one stain and -- in 911 there was supposed to be another election and told they might be able to put in 2009 there

was not an election for anybody. with it when 2011 came after the arab spring, suddenly there was a reduction. four min, but i need to give something. that is largely how they work. some say two steps forward one step back some say two steps backward in 14 word. whichever view is a small margin for maneuver. >> thank you very much.

i had a chance to enter and they talk about like people surrounding the kingdome. >> right. always somebody else's fault and but in many cases by instead of saying he is bad bad, it is a cushion for the

future. >> what is the question? >> is the like a cushion to release the version -- frustration or could be a target. >> does reabsorbs the frustration or a target for that frustration. this to make your right to even complainers, the worst that anybody will say to me about king abdullah is he is surrounded by bad people who don't tell him what is going online. he is an old man and does not know. they never criticize him directly or almost never. so the king is obviously somebody that is all

powerful if he chooses to be because whenever this came makes up his mind or that there was say woman by her brothers and their appointed the sisters to divorce and she refused was still forced to go home with their brothers and obviously could not go home with her husband as she insisted on staying in jail, she did for four years in the case and eventually became involved himself to get in new judicial decision that allowed the couple to remarry. he is very much above the fray and for becoming a

target, it is likely to stay that way. the real family could b.a. target but they will continue to give that king personally a pass and expect him to get involved and as sort things. their burial family clearly can read the press. there has spent of a a man who beat his fibril to death and so they sent me a story story, assuming it is true that the real family has intervened to keep the man in prison for now. and not let him get out after four months because they can hear when people

are upset about things. because the king is all powerful when he chooses to use it and can do with they wish. but tethered to to maintain approval from the religious establishment because when the first brothers succeeded in 1953 and he and his brother quarreled because the new king said country and to in the end the family decided we should get rid of him and for the religious establishment was in essence called into plus that.

so to realize you lawyers spee and the good graces of the religious establishment, you may need them one day, not just against each other but with the people. we have to go but i thank you very much. [applause] >> i was fascinated by her feminist view. remember the ladies, or you will be in trouble -- trouble, i am paraphrasing bette you cannot rule without precluding what woman once and have to contribute. this is 1700 that she says that. of

>> the associate director of the resource defense council is the author of reckless. tell me about your book. >> the last years we have seen this thing gophers legislative assault in history from the comments that we pretend -- depend on. we have seen more than 300 votes in the house of representatives is meant to water down, a delay or block needed protection and this is after the clean water act, clean air act act, endangered species act act, the appalachian mountains, the gulf of mexico, a great lakes and it has endanger our health.

the american people need to know about this. the american people did not have this assaults but somebody else did but millions of dollars every year to pump up the campaign it because the people do care about their future. they want to understand why haven't we made progress on climate change your safeguarding our people? why are reid doing something with the threats? and imports of gave the republicans that led the assault is not due to the republican party historical a. before going back to teddy roosevelt, ronald did or h. w. bush, republicans have a

history of responsible stewardship. the hard right turns away from its own path and the conservative than its. we make that point* in the book. >> host: you talk about the 2010 house of representatives and focus on and republicans delicate democrats with the legislation. >> guest: there are a handful that sided with republicans hand tended to be from fossil fuels and those are reliant but we need to invest as a country in renewable fuels, energy efficiency, solar, wind, and make the case. while we continue to use a lot of coal and oil and gas, we need to be moving toward a more sustainable fuels'. not overnight to the overtime. >> host: has obama done enough with environmental

regulation? >> guest: he has worked very hard to make progress but there is more to be done. obama works hard with automakers to double the fuel efficiency of cars by 2025 that will save consumers $100 million per year upon bank cut carbon emissions in half, that is good progress but the opportunity for the second term is reduce the carbon from the single largest source which is coal-fired power plants need to reduce the emissions the epa can issue new standards. >> you read about the 2010 house of representatives what do you think? >> but we hope republicans and democrats alike will find common ground to go after climate change we just

finished a hottest summoned one negative summer on record ypf 60 percent of pasture land and ranchers were liquidating to the ohio river valley and we hope leaders from both parties reach across the aisle -- across the aisle and try to make our farms and ranches safe in continue to make progress. >> we are speaking to the author of the new book reckless. said you very much. >> weekdays with the live coverage of the senate.