charities are going to be able to achieve their randomized control across the board is never going to be scaled. it costs millions of dollars and tremendous research and there's also the realities where a charity has to turn one person away and accept another. there are a variety of challenges for doing that. do you see a way to get to the results without requiring that standard in the charity's? ..

>> and to the credit of the leadership, when they were asked to take the of model that was proven to other places they had to do more trials there so that a model and circumstance would fit. if anything it is not inexpensive but the apart is to right to and it cost more.

it cost more in the short term but the long-term benefit diana stand the argument. the part of the challenges it is more expensive to do it right than otherwise maybe that is the barrier reef face with foundations and government what to do it cheaper. >> host: tell the story of the norris family partnership assets in the book. we try to get the of broader principles summer great and awful the professor at university of colorado denver came up with the idea of an early pregnancy intervention by nurses with

counseling with at risk mothers lifestyle, a career career, and child rearing counseling, and people would not be embarrassed to take counsel as a life progression. a lot of good ideas and some work. some don't. but the recent graduate from college, a johns hopkins, he tested the ada 20 years and turned down offers he said i will test it in memphis and now i will tested in colorado. he refused to scale the idea until the new work taken to market with it. he infuriated people along

the way. a lot of knockoffs started during that time but in and out of that is in the organization we are convinced that contributes to people's lives. >> he is unique. >> but it is not the 20 year path. people like to do faster in new york cheaper but it is long term solutions to the long-term problems. >> host: the book is to detent pages long the first 175 deal overall with

characterizing the problem. the remaining 40 pages is a chapter that talks about marvelous science and then the last 10 pages you concrete the talk about solutions that you want to recommend. headed toward the last few minutes, you see the possibility for a second book that talks more? the book even works more to where we need to go what about that? >> i am not sure my marriage would survive. [laughter] my book just cannot today.

it is wonderfully premature to talk about the second book. with the vision with the spirit of your question, it is heavy pointed up the problem and starts a conversation about solutions. that in order to have a public conversation and people need to be focused on the problem. the charitable sector, the number and the impact in the importance that people don't put time and effort into the donation process shocks people. i hope the public

understands it is the tremendously important sector with tremendous potential and the ship is moving in the wrong direction. if we understand the construct we can have a conversation about the second book. >> host: race still of a few minutes. talk about the hopeful mind going forward, charting impact and another effort under way is perform well. child trends, a social solutions are involved and they are compiling evidence based indicators by different caused areas patrolled maybe they do not do randomized controlled models but model what has

been done and use that. >> i think the complexity goes back that buyoff did talk about the parallels with the for-profit world with the simple solution you make money or you don't. at the end of the day and it is easy to predict the past but it is harder in the future and there cannot be a single set of numbers for charities. that is why it is hard and it took four years to launch charity navigator three point* o. but the fact people think about the solution is the

advance and it will make me happy. >> it is a good contribution for sure. >> the of the part -- the other part the seven standards where that has not been done yet. and the effort to get that consensus around standards to measure the charity and there is so much to be done. the so rather get a charity commission and reinvented government but every charity not just have a financial audit by the results of its the incentive and is finding

follows -- funding follows and the collective consensus is what the standards should be. they paid for the audit but the incentive is simple as a goal. what your thoughts on that? >> guest: i note your out of time so i will leave a great point* of consensus. that is a remarkable goal. clear in an direct if we get more to sign up i think we will do well. >> it has been a pleasure. >> thank you.

>> faq very much pride excited michael is here

because at the end if there are questions i cannot answer we can direct them to him. john randall did very different things. he resolved with the grid grid, elevated railroads handle whole life outside of new york city but to give you some background:for the work by interested in today, he had of legacy that extended past the maps with data that has been important for scientists working on projects today. that is allied became interested in randall is in the first place. the book came add event

another exhibit that was here in 2009. of wildlife conservation society moved to new york city from california and was browsing in the bookstore and found this book manhattan and in maps which is the extraordinary collection of history and maps. he was looking through it, and you may be familiar with the story, it was the british headquarters map during on negative done during the occupation and sanderson was struck by the fact there is so much topographical detail he saw the island in a rich way and thought if there is this

typography to figure out elevation and slow by could figure out -- out what plants lived where to give a sense of the different ecosystem, and the animals so this is the moment that set him off to recreate manhattan 69. he relied heavily on the british headquarters map. there is no data. it is just shading. with contemporary gps he also had john randel. seeing the island through his vision he would tell me where the march was, wild turkeys, the black bear, of

world that he walked around ended up having to rely on randalls data with recorded elevation and thus far map that i will show you he had marked elevations at different intersections. using that data he could put it together the manhattan project. walking around 69 with the wild island that 200 years earlier a young man was walking around a lot more rural island that buthelezi lines and streets and i thought that was amazing

they would walk the island with the incredibly different vision and i became assessed was john randel and try to find out as much as i could. i started 2004 you can get a sense how long it took to track him. his works he is known for is the commissioners' plan and he made three copies of the plan issued 1811. ... this is far from the manhattan project but maybe not what randel was saying but closer to that. so my a quest to agree on a

wild goose chase paul cohen had been written about him but could not find much material. i discovered a geographer who did it topographical reconstruction based on randel's data. he tried to find material on randel. the books the national water way to track down the work of the chesapeake and delaware canal that mandel was involved with the large lawsuit but there is no cash of letters there is some in delaware and maryland, of virginia, a relative in texas, new jersey, it took a long time.

most of it was in the new-york historical society in the notebooks that cover the time of rimbaud's life we know the most about. he lived in extremely long life and he died 1865 and saudi enormous changes in the most well-documented period overs will be ears perk up i will go back and forth to read some passages. it would be divided into three stages by the growing public impersonal turmoil. from 18 '08 through 1810 during that time he measured

along east and west and north and south lines with blocks with the equipment. the streets would run river to river to facilitate traffic to the dock and to rid the city of stagnant air. also the copy of the manuscript of map is a famous commissioners' plan of 1811. the second stage mandel conducted a survey with elevation not just distance as opposed to regular of land survey. with 181-82-1821 aided by his first wife matilda became a cartographer of the highest quality.

much of what we know comes from two sources. the common council from new york contains records of his reports on surveys and roads and streets that concern finances, contracts, deadlin es. the more complete source of information is in the field books at the historical society and donated by a former seducer varian engineer. of you're interested there is a story about how the notebook ended up at the new york historical society in the caretaker of webster. it is not a complete story it is interesting which is often true randel finances legal trouble in his life. [laughter] the almost all 35 field books of leather bound the ordered them from albany printer.

simultaneously rich documents in some places there is professionalism with tables, and measurements, his sketches, the diagrams, markers they have these records from his personal life 18 '08 and 1823 because he drafted letters, copied contracts, mentioned family and friends, travel to work and pleasure in my favorite part, recipes. above all visiting and revisiting recording, a checking, acidifying comet is not unusual for one book to have injuries from for years layered over each other. irregularity unsettled him. with three certifications and adjustments and a notes wide measurements were off. every field book preceded

perfection. even the elimination of one of his men's parents often -- offer at user is this is a long passage. >> he will not have time to get to request a lot of my horse and saddle. it is 6:40 a.m. progress seven '07 a.m. started age-old return. he is returning 65 minutes and 32 minutes to put up the course. he could have walked in 43 minutes even with 97 minutes so 44 remits longer going with the course been without. therefore i have damaged him 44 minutes of time. [laughter] conclusion it is bad policy to let it led to my horse from inconvenience. [laughter]

this is very typical of randel. said to get us cents sometimes the whole hemisphere i sat with the surveyor on the topographical recreation in then with is in a the notebook. into one of the notebooks he measured in rides and chains. but the eighth goal of the ascent or decent in the

fourth column on the rod then uc the dissent then you can see the ingle. he was charged with surveying the island has you know, it is bumpy and very rough city would have to calculate based on the rise and the 90-degree in gold for the ground itself he left it to the people who had to open the streets to make it level. this is a measurement from 78 street measuring down down, and i cut it off. i cannot see.

he measures down an avenue. [laughter] and could go from one side of this tree down the block then it is usually about 200 cubic feet which is why our box if you walk 20 blocks you walk a mile. and the measures are very, very close at 260 and when you would accumulate he would divide the block length to make the adjustment to get them even but look at his beautiful handwriting. this looks like an early study 122nd, 123rd and

the rough sketches of rocks. there were rough and places but of do not contain incredible gems of houses, and other began drawings of property and they also had amazing stories. is consisted. some days he was in the mood to right some not been made dictations every day with his family. he discusses his brother coming back from new haven to visit a cousin from new jersey with his first wife matilda who was a cousin. there is the recipe irish butter.

there is another collection at the historical society that there is notes from his work upstate with references to new york city. i will tell you how randel came to be in new york. he was born in albany as a jeweler had fought in the revolutionary war in had a lot of brothers and sisters there carpenters, inventors, farme rs, there seems to be a lot of innovation in the family and a strong work ethic. random appeared to be extremely good in mathematics.

he refers to one of his teachers is trying to find a place and talks about this incredible teacher and it is clear he has an affinity for the teacher and math and it shows throughout his life. at 12 years old ended up as a surveyor general for new york state. this is a map of the albany at the time when randel was born and growing up. and initially he was in the office copying notes that had come in from the

surveyors across the state and compile them into maps at the same time he was doing his own maps of property around albany. people are not as familiar with these maps. not just from the time he was surveying on the island but the range of the work for the surveyor general this is a map for w. s. lewis, and this is the shuler is state, us tract of land from central new york state much of the work is going to be given into europe -- veterans and

pushing off the native americans pushing them on to a grid then selling or allocating the land as payment for services. this is one of the maps from their reservation. this is a beautiful map that he did. also he developed the turnpike's well working in new york island was down to city hall it is a 23 part map and is incredible if you can just follow it he marks supposed office and the tavern houses, can you can see how well it went down to

city hall. interesting to me, uh the timing of august 1810, he had not yet handed in the commissioners' plan but you can see the grid is that city is working on those maps at that time. the early and later maps are careful and precise he really had the admiration and trust of his mentors. simeon and to which one of the three commissioners appointed by the state to come up with the plan for development on the island. the act to appoint those

enacted 18 '07 but not much work have been -- happened. -- i forgot. there are some beautiful maps of the hudson river. he was going to work on the canal was filling up and it was making it difficult. there was a canal proposed to run alongside the hudson the most exquisite maps that he did is a series of 16 following a the river. they are beautiful and fit together like the format does. the commissioners were called and to help devise a plan this is post critic but

we had suffered so much from pestilence and felt the evil that we have the widening of the narrow passages for open places and squares of the first magnitude and importance. so to circulate by its separation the city is well ventilated. some of the causes for needing a good plan had to do is crowding, and narrow streets, fires, a trash, and a lack of breezes. [laughter] it was past eight to seven commissioners appointed, and there is one record of the summer being hawked but also

a letter from the philadelphia complaining about the quality of the survey. it turned out to that the old maps are erroneous and they must be done over talk about a city surveyor and. cannot that mr. f may be prevented in the future party for her suggesting official representation might not be improper. some of do it came down and he was jettisoned then we have randel showing up of the island. this seems to be a painting

done by azariah aims was a famous painter who painted politicians and other members of the committee. there is only this black-and-white photo from a catalog when the painting and of him and his brother abraham was cold but it has been nearly impossible to track where the painting is now. i cannot vilify it is aims but an expert at the albany institute has looked closely and feels strongly it is in as russia style. so easy set off to survey

the island to put the map down on paper to marco distances to come up with the blueprint it was not randall's idea that came from the commissioners talking about minimum requirements for street with but he had to do the practical work how it would sit on the land. you can see the bridge starting on north street and saying goes up and to chelsea then starts at the

top third of the map and. randel did that work in two years and had a lot of trouble as you may have read that the accounts coming he had a difficult time with people on the island. to something that e.d. departed albany and ran in with a lot. when landowners discover the city was going to run streets regardless of prop. ship and houses and lots were in danger to be swept off the face of fierce they felt wrong to and outraged. at the approach of engineers

with the maps dogs were brought in and whole families united to drive them out with as if vagrants. so a woman whose sole decibels for a living pelted with cabbages and artichokes and tell it was in reverse he was frequently called off and the mayor had to post bail when commissioners were not in town for i was arrested on numerous occasions for trespassing can lead damage to passover grounds are cutting off bridges to make surveys. then one rich source of documents there are a lot of court cases with those in

this city archives that is right down this nice lawsuit for damages to his land on the aid toward a and part of what i love so much is winning wage from nearly 19th century newspapers, pamphlets and books was phenomenal. the field book in august reported nothing unusual but august 26 was the apocalypse the standard language was hyperbolic and his powers of destruction was armed with sticks, stones, knives, axes

to consume them in there destroy paid 500 trees, elm trees come apricot trees trees, 500 beach trees in the same amount of plum, cherry, and nectarine and bushes. [laughter] then cut it down and trampled and injured 500 cabbages 5,000 seats, 5,000 carats, 20,000 strawberry bush's. [laughter] 502 lips then and there the of the value of $5,000. this play out over seven years and was found guilty and the court awarded $109.63 to cover his legal

expenses. by randel did gain from the lawsuit because the new act gave them permission and to go on land during the daylight and not to be called into court all the time. although randel did like the court. that was a first-aid producing the commissioners' plan seven governor norris suggested they hire randel takes the blueprint and a fix it to the island to the marble monuments at intersections in did not would put in the iron bolts he put it in over 1500 monuments and 98 iron faults

of this is the one in central park. also there has been one found up above 155th street on tenth avenue which is the main access of the survey. it has been careful to say it is randall's but it is a very good chance it is perfectly grilled aligned and those from central park are not so randel got the permission to create instruments. he made the argument he could not do this quickly and effectively a message got money to build his own

instruments. this is taken from an illustration on the map at the historical society and library of congress. he had very bumpy ground and needed to work quickly and was interested to being paid well so he came up with these instruments and i try to understand them on my own and i talked to somebody at the smithsonian one of the country's leading experts of colonial instruments actually restores and repairs them and he graciously photoshop the

images from the map and is set down in front of a computer for three days picking apart looking at the screws and conferring with a nasa engineers summer straightforward. this was a ride to measure, that you can see can be moved up and down. he invented several. there is another version. each time he would place the ride by the end of the day he would tell litus verify what was on the counter it is the elaborate version of a measuring rod. it is 50 feet long gilts for

incredible support although very heavy and long he has a portable version fitted be easier to carry. randel also did a cast on the restaurant to make sure how they expanded at certain temperatures and weather conditions putting him in the realm of the geodetic survey year he issued a pamphlet to to describe the instruments in great detail. we cannot find. portions were transcribed for one weeks possibility it was in a library in london and not on the shelf but what i am hoping is randel who has not been well known

known, and maybe more material will show up maybe letters, or a huge collection a round in the early 20th century. maybe that will emerge and will find more details. here she used this to measure a goals and you can see to telescopes 14 vertical and the other four horizontal. this is what jeff flock like to the most is that it looked like they came from venus. [laughter] it is the water level to get very, very very precise elevations if you were planning a canal and randel did a lot of canal work later.

he did that. demand and get as much money as he wanted and he complained bitterly having to sort the cost himself but then he did use that to us did in albany and he invented them and nobody could use them and got and then it was withdrawn then he went to court. that was one of his initiative lawsuits to right to the wrong and had a long history of that. as he was laying the monuments on the island he decided to publish his version of the commissioners' plan because he did this three manuscript

version and submitted them then a city surveyor named bridges had come in to offer his services to make his copy of the map to in grave it which meant he could sell its and although no record of him being angry was quite angry. so as a late bout the monuments he started to issue his map, his version which would be engraved then he publicize the map, ready to sell its and ended up in a vicious battle with bridges and the newspaper about how his map was much

better, more correct correct, bridges challenged randel all of the errors on produce map and he had not even copied his map correctly and in the end randel with drew the map and did not have it engraved because the war 1812 he was worried about security to provide a clear map to the city. the language in the feud between the two is beautiful. bridges defended himself then died a few months later there is bridges map but apparently a little players according to randel. randel tried again to issue

his own map and got peter maverick to work on the engraving and had grand plans for the map. is completely unusual this survey instruments normally people did not put those on the map, map of new york city of the northeastern states, the philadelphia coming down on top of their city and census data in information, a little bit about the instruments that was somewhat helpful and had grand plans what it did not sell. the common council's felt it was too small they could not get the resolution of the island they wanted they bought a few copies then

they turn to to another mapmaker and brando was disappointed because the mention comes up again and again and is his family had trouble and he seemed to bail them out. he was incredibly loyal sibling and child. his brother william was in trouble he tried to set i have no job he would often hire him and please just try to sell the map. it did not work. he was disappointed as well. during this time he started the fire maps that he had a contract to do with the common council they had

forgotten about in 1810 then 1818 he reminds them day elohim a huge map he was going to do so in this note from one subcommittee telling them not to sign contracts without checking with everybody but they honor the contract and randel does the 92 maps that are extraordinary showing the island from the beginning all the way up. their colorful, a gorgeous and hugest think they would be 50 feet long and 11 feet wide and the web site is extraordinary because you can go to it to find out where you lived you can zoom in to see what houses were

there, whose land land, rocks, extraordinary. i wanted to show you where it began. ferreted is hudson river and greenwich laying and the grid above that. i gave you a sample to go up the island but the creeks, the the of waterways, a typography, marshes you cannot see it very well at this resolution but each intersection he marks a monument or vault and marks the elevation at that spot. they are explicit.

-- explicit. there is tenth avenue you get a sense of the active imagination that is my most favorite of waiting years due to spend time on the web site you see the property lines people were so worried of his appearance because the geographer who did the topographical reconstruction also set down with the maps and map marked every single structure in figures 40% would be obliterated by the

bridge is to get a sense of what kind of transformation landowners were anticipating. the far maps as pointed out provided a lot of information were for the water wraps it is said gem of the map collection from derek sanderson referred to where they are around the island. that is essentially the end of randall's time of new york city. this is huge crash deadline his wife helped 10 and painted some of them members of frenzy to get them in on time he gets a little bit of debt extension then fennecs stage of his career over

several decades ago go through this quickly if anyone has questions, please ask that he worked on the delaware canal he worked on the erie canal and got into a terrific froude -- feud with benjamin wright and published a pamphlet originally published 1821 criticizing the plan for the eastern third of the canal. actually the commissioners paid randel to issue the pamphlet. it was also political move as well. but if you read it you get the sense he is passionate about precision if they just

follow the map and just measured correctly they would need truce that the plan of benjamin wright was not the best. he seems difficult for that reason because it is so exacting that there is something lovely about reading his deep-seated true beliefs of people got things right and rarely measured about carefully they would see a higher truth that is very much connected to the progress of united states and development of the united states with transportation and planning. then he heads back to work on the important canal and

benjamin wright is the engineer in chief there. [laughter] randel works with them and gets fired in he goes to court and is intended by a very interesting character character, an early publisher and journalist and had been an apprentice with benjamin franklin and set up the printing press. he issued early atlases and distributed up and down the east coast and was influential and was outraged by randall's treatment and took up his cause and issued pamphlets of his mistreatment and encourage him to go to court and it went on forever i think 12 ye