the sub tree woods system and profiles to keep all responsible for shaping it. this is about 35 minutes. >> welcome. i'm bob rubin, cochair of the council and i was told that my sole goal here is to welcome you, which i just done, to hear benn as he talks about his new book, "the battle of bretton woods: john maynard kaynes, harry dexter white, and the making of a new world order." having said that, i'd like to make two observations. i've read this book. that's one observation. [laughter] on the other hand, i got it for not being end is worth more than that. firstly, i know most of you know benn, maybe a latino benn, but it's worth knowing why he takes on these issues. he graduated summa cum laude at

wharton, had a distinguished preachers fellowship and publishes a journal of which he was a founding editor of international finance and is a scholar's journal for scholars. alan greenspan when he tells me he read mathematical pieces, the places he published his men's journal. he said there's only four people understand them and they all read his journal. my second observation is based, having said that about the journal, the book is remarkably readable and is a fascinating, fascinating tale about the creation of the imf in the world bank, a particular moment in time. it's a tale about economic policy debates of enormous importance. and it is a tale about john maynard keynes and harry dexter white and benn prints purchased the both of them. it is new and i have been aware of before.

but i just find this out by saying benn scott reviews in "the new york times" that most often people would trade their souls for. but be that as it may, there's bargains worth making. in that event, futuristic book. i strongly recommend it. benn. [laughter] >> thank you, bob. just to clarify, "the new york times" review is not quite out, so i'm not sure what i'll be willing to trade for. so thanks for the kind words, bob. anything you can do to keep the price that's up about current sewers would be greatly appreciated. [laughter] indeed, the current sewers of the 1930s were graded session of fdr's treasury. in fact, what is the driving motivations of the conference was to eliminate current

divorce, a specific type directed against the united states and the u.s. dollar. in fact, harry dexter white, the u.s. treasury representative, markets hand man at bretton woods told them, i quote, dinner at the national monetary fund he was determined to senate was designed for a special purpose and that purpose is to prevent depreciation against the u.s. dollar. and in order to do that, they were going to create a system of fixed exchange rates that would be sustained by this international monetary fund. it may seem rather strange in the current context when the united states is battling other countries and china to adopt flexible exchange rates and to stop pegging the u.s. dollar.

the motivation was the same coming to get a more competitive dollar. in the 1940s, all the pressure was separate in the, so countries linking to the u.s. dollar kept the dollar at a high level, whereas today most of the pressure from important emerging market countries in particular, most of the pressure on their currency is a person united states flexible exchange rates to get a more competitive dollar, notwithstanding policy. so bretton woods was effectively a deal the u.s. suffered the world. google provides u.s. the world's sole remaining credible creditor with short-term balance of paymentscan support in return for which you promise not to devalue against us without the imf, which we would control. fdr's treasury, harry dexter white in particular had other

goals that written words that were far more interesting and far more controversial and in particular to eliminate great read and as a political and economical rival in the postwar world. that might seem remarkable now. this is our great democratic allies in the second world war. the u.s. treasury wizard says it's making sure we could exploit this unique moment in time to eliminate what we considered our last remaining rival in the world which was great written. a quote from henry morgenthau

they would take it. the u.s. was determined to exploit this moment in time. so bretton woods was in fact a deal that treasury struck with a severely weakened britain to get it through the war and the media postwar landscape without financial collapse. the u.s. would provide short-term financial assistance in return for which written but first eliminate what was called imperial trade preference. this was privileged access for british goods to the markets of

their colonies and dominions. that would be ended. second, britain would make the pound sterling again fully convertible into dollars, so this massive stock of useless sterling britain's colonies and dominions had built up would be spent on something else besides u.s. goods -- british goods in particular american goods. and finally controversially to accept the u.s. dollar as the basic unit of account for global trade and as you can imagine, the british resisted this fiercely and in fact harry dexter white used some rather remarkable ruses have written was in order to push this through. keynes did not even see it until he had left bretton woods. how is the remarkable part of the story. but his flannel robins, famous british economist at his own right and a delicate it redwoods put it, we need the cash, unquote. winston churchill famously referred to lend lease aid as

quote, unquote the most unsorted acts. the u.s. was in fact only willing to provide this aid after really milking britain tried. we forced them to solve a their major subsidiaries of british companies in the united states. there's even evidence that fdr's administration was willing to take it to the empire. but here's a nice quote from henry morgenthau speaking to the u.s. treasury representative in 1940s. he said there's one thing i know i can say that we don't want any of those islands. i know he doesn't want jamaica. i know he doesn't want trinidad and i know he doesn't want reddish sky in that. last night in fact, the u.s. was more spontaneously generous during the second world war to china and the soviet union than it was to britain. it seems rather remarkable today.

the mindset during the war was really focused on britain as our main rival. this is all overthrown three years later with the marshall plan in 1947, but that's another story to be told that my next book. one of the reasons for the collapse of british imperial power in 1946 in 1947 with this rapid and violent because britain was rapidly running out of dollars and the u.s. treasury was managing that process. if you look at the debates going on behind the scenes and the british government at the end of 1946, early in 1947 on burma, greece, palestine wall collapsing by oakley is all about dollars. we have to make the pound convertible in july of 1947 the only way we can possibly make the commitment is if we start

holding on to our dollars. we have to let the empire go when that very much part of harry dexter white's agenda. let me say a few words about the characters in the book is they are indeed fascinating, john major keynes and harry dexter white. they're as different as chalk and cheese or bourbon in afternoon tea. that when i look in particular. these were two men who had a grudging that ration for each other. white certainly considered genius, which he undoubtedly was. keynes admired way for his enormous influence in the u.s. treasury. i'm a market that depended on for policy, not just economic policy, but foreign policy. it is a remarkably influential figure. here is what keynes said early

in his interactions with them. he said he is not the faintest conception how to behave or observe the rules of the civilized. he referred to the white plan that led to bretton woods says the work of a lunatic for some sort of a joke, unquote. an emotional out or is between the two in negotiations you can really get a sense of the disparity their background and how conscious both men were of this. or example, one particularly heated session, white exposed -- teens exposed that waits and his deputies, all of whom the major ones for your jewish guys were white and market out. he said this is another talmud. at one point he fires back, we'll try to produce something which her highness can

understand. keynes was not only the most famous economist of the 20th century, but really the first ever celebrity economist and this really cut up finances of the american said bretton woods. they tried very much to hide him away. why put him in charge of the commission to create the world bank. the americans didn't care about the world bank. they try to keep them off the stage and wouldn't let him speak. they would need the mud can henry morgenthau. the press didn't care. all they cared about was john maynard keynes. he was absolutely the media idol of the conference. he was also remarkably astute about the perils of britain's financial situation and how the americans could exploit it, were exploiting it. he pointed out to the british government early in the process that reddish freedom to engineer new postwar social and economic

policies was impossible without further assistance, but the country's room for maneuver was painfully eliminated. the americans are strong enough to offer inducements to many or most of our friends to walk out on this. when the government of the need to guard against the emergency used as an opportunity for picking up the ice of the british empire and he warned them they need to prevent it from becoming a satellite of the united states. he said there were orders in the united states intended to use the grant to postwar credit as an opportunity for opposing the american conception of the international economic system. for all keynes' brilliance he was also perhaps the world's worst diplomat. in 1917 during the first world war, he made his first official word on transit trip to washington. it was a baking mission to the u.s. treasury.

here are some of the comments that came back. he was rude, dogmatic and this obliging and too offensive for words. these quotes came from the british ambassador and his financial. [laughter] naturally with the americans said was worse. but the question one really has to have their about kings of the diplomat is could anyone have done better for britain with the hand they doll, which which was appalling. i answer perhaps surprisingly is yes, that keynes a bad hand to play, but he played it exactly. let me give you an example appeared in may 1944 before the britain was conference the u.s. financial secretary in washington came excitedly saying the u.s. banking community of

new york was launching a rearguard action against the fdr administration and its initiative. they hated the whole idea of a monetary fund. they will offer his $3 billion if we walk away from this scheme that geopolitical terms and keynes turned it down. y? teams for success with this legacy and wanted to be known as the father of a new monetary system that would overturn the gold standard. i think a career diplomat who is less concerned with his intellectual legacy and history might have exploited opportunities like this. who is harry dexter white? truly an extraordinary and not well understood. during american history. he was the son of immigrant parents in 1892. his parents came from lithuania and died when he was extremely young. his mother died when he was nine, his father is 16.

he showed no real academic skills until very late in life he finishes under richard reid 30, but then he went to harvard to do a doctorate and suddenly started getting interested in the world. if you read his own who's who, biography, there's nothing that appears before his phd from harvard at age 38. to take his whole life to that date didn't exist. he couldn't get tenure there. he went off to a small college in wisconsin, lawrence college. what was his ambition? interestingly he told his former racer at harvard that he wanted to go to the soviet union to study economic planning and he was only diverted from this idea by a call from jay jacob viner and u.s. economist for the u.s. treasury washington to come for a brief period work on a monetary study with him.

he became henry morgenthau's right-hand man and the two formed a very close symbiotic were shooting relationship. morgantown was not the sharpest tack in the box. he was not a particularly bright man, did not have any affinity with detailed, certainly not uneconomic policy, but he did have the ear of the president, an old friend of the president for my heart new york and became dependent for good policy ideas. harry dexter white is 16 in that book actually had enormous influence in the run-up to the war with japan. he was very influential in making policy towards japan. wade, for his part is completely dependent on morgantown for his status and washing 10. he is no official title of consequence until january 1945

after bretton woods. he wasn't even an official civil servant. he was paid out of the profits of the stabilization fund. seeing you at any moment he could be cut loose and sent back to appleton, wisconsin. he certainly didn't want to go back there. but he was success from very early on with this idea of a monetary conference, which it would establish the u.s. dollar is the bedrock at the national monetary system. something is found in his archives that he wrote eight years before brett woods. the more sterling countries there are, the stronger will be england's position shouldn't international conference tape plays. he was determined to make sure we went into the conference eventually as he was sure that we wait, the included with ems week a position as possible and america would be in as strong a position as possible. he thoroughly out there for keynes at bretton woods. the scion line 10 and didn't see

the key provisions that went into the imf article agreement, which he would've fought against and had fought against for years. one fascinating and paradoxical aspect was the fact that in spite of his having been a father of postwar capitalism, he operated a symbol for soviet intelligence over a period of 11 years from 1935 to 1946. if the vocab from 1930 to 1941 after whittaker chambers threatened to expose him, but he got back into the business. until recently i would characterize a murder case where you have the witnesses, you have the weapons, a handwritten document was classified information that whittaker chambers turned over to nixon, but didn't have a real motives. where was the evidence that he was the soviet sympathizer?

i recently wrote an article of foreign affairs about days, should plug hometown journal on harry dexter white and his motives i found an unpublished essay that nobody had noticed before, a 30 page essay but in 1934 where he explained his postwar vision. the hypocrisy towards the soviet union. and it ends his essay by a pair of raising lincoln steffens. he writes, brush it is the world's first socialist economy in action and it works, exclamation point. it is a remarkable document. i have no idea but plan to do, but certainly nobody had seen it at the time. how did weight reconcile his views? he struggled mightily to reconcile his beliefs on the one

hand and a dollar sent to local free trade architecture with disbelief on the other end of soviet socialist economic model that really had no use for it. he could never reconcile the two. he was solicitous of the soviet bretton woods who were enormously objected, but no soviet monetary thing came to speak out. but you might wonder why today stayed at the european who runs the imf and not an american, whereas the imf was clearly more important to the 90s states. president truman had intended to nominate way to be the first managing director in january january 1946. right before he did so, he received a long memorandum from jay edgar hoover is saying don't even think about it.

i've got credible witnesses and information that will collaborate my allegations with this man as a soviet spy. truman didn't trust to her, but he had a big political problem on his hands. the u.s. concoct did a new narrative. they said we decided that we really want the world bank to secure the confidence of the american investment community and it would be rude of us to take both institutions. both institutions were in washington despite the fact the british object is how i took this for years, but they decided to renege and miss and wouldn't touch the imf because they didn't want information about the scandal coming out. it lives on to this day. this point i should stop and open up the floor for questions. [applause]

>> count the factual difficulty, but how different would it have been if written sent a free-market economist as savior of the british delegation. the london school of economics supposing we hadn't sent keynes and sent somebody sensible, don't you think rick would've done a better deal? >> whether there was a delegate can not only that, he was in washington in late 1945 during very stressful negotiations with the u.s. treasury about a postwar american transitional loan. september 1945 to december 1945. it went so badly that he had a very bad heart attack during the negotiations and that probably did direct you to his death the following spring.

robbins was -- he was certainly no disciple, but he had great sympathy for the man as a man. he said it's his fault. he entranced that came with this great vision of the united states, not only giving brittany postwar transitional loan. he in fact said that with an abomination to accept a loan from the united states. the americans should reimburse us from having entered the war early and having fought for their cause. you can imagine how this was received in all of washington. so robbins always understood that keynes would get caught up as they were in his own rhetoric and his own concern with this legacy. i don't think robbins would've done that.

rabin's certainly thought highly of himself and his economics, but he had no intentions of overthrowing a pseudo classical economics. robyn scum is certainly a career diplomat would've taken much more seriously the possibility of pursuing short-term private loans. they had a sympathetic ear in the united states in the form of export import inc. the canadians were landing britain money and probably would have continued to do that. but keynes willfully dismissed those initiatives. in fact, there were people at treasury like serrano clark. i don't know if you recall that name who were scathing for persisting with this green design when it's clear what never work out in britain's interest. >> one of the guests at greatest disappointments was when stalin refused to ratify bretton woods.

do you have a view about why stalin did that, when on the other hand he agreed to participate in the united nations? >> yeah, i'll work backwards on that. but it was at the united nations founding conference in spring of 1945. one of the reasons that the soviet -- main reason the soviets did decide to go forward with the united nations was because they were given a veto by the united states. the united states didn't want there to be a soviet veto. how did they know that they were going to be able to get one? white told them. white was a representative of the administration at san francisco and he was leaking information to task a news agency journalist.

his famous pravda, who is working for social intelligence. i probably knew who he was, producer i if this information was not meant for the price. now wait a retinoids -- the soviets had no interest in this monetary architecture except for one reason. the soviets liked the idea of a new monetary architecture being found dead on old in some form because the soviets had a lot of it and looked to be on the verge of getting a lot more. so the soviets were thrilled with any monetary system that would lead to making their code more valuable. but they really viewed retinoids as they did the marshall plan is just an opportunity to get short-term credits from the

united states, which they could eventually repudiate. in fact, white fought fiercely within the destination for a $10 million low-interest loan to the soviet union fdr refused to go forward with it and the main reason is we find in the soviet archives by the soviets would not ratified the word was because of u.s. financial aid was forthcoming. they said we are not going to get anything out of this financially, so with not worth going forward. white was indeed extremely disappointed. >> hang on, microphone. >> that's very clear -- it's even clear from your book about this memo and it's clear he passed information he shouldn't have passed to soviet journalists and agents. usually a spider or more means somebody is under the direction of the foreign agency. is there any that he felt to be

in the direction of the soviets or was he a traveler with more than industries? >> that's a great question. i wrestled with what sort of label to attach and quite frankly i've never been comfortable with than a normal day posts were used, spike, agent, mole because harry dexter white did not take orders from anyone. he didn't take them from henry mercantile. although he knew on which side is toast with butter and he was always varies to vote to henry mercantile, but he did not follow orders and certainly didn't follow from roscoe. he did not join in the movement, the communist party. he enjoyed the heck out of whittaker chambers and some of his soviet hand others. he would disappear and then reemerge on this theme. he was a true believer and the

idea, which many anglo-american writers had at the time, that the soviet union had created something enormous and beneficial for the world for the soviet revolution of the soviet economic system was after the war going to take over the world. there was one account by speechwriter of morgenthau said i sounded credible before i found white's essay in his archives saying in 1945 and a private private conversation with him, said the imf will fail , that the world was moving towards state trading. her lasky had described this more brilliantly than anyone else and there is no way the united states is going to survive more than five to 10

years in the ca state trading. these were convictions of his. he was a man of great conviction. he supported passionately fighting bob lawfulness progressive party campaign for the presidency in 1924. he passionately supported henry wallace's campaign in 1848 and 50 if he had won he would make whitespace treasury secretary. he was a true believer, but he took orders from nobody. >> i don't think i need a mic for this question. it's a simple question. do you have anything in your book about the relationship of harry dexter white and alger hiss? >> no, i don't. i don't know what position should arise. we know they interacted at san francisco, but i actually did

not come across anything in the archives about the interaction between the two of them. i would say i'm a basis of wood and the archival material in particular soviet intelligence cables severed decrypt data under the so-called winona project that white was probably more important to soviet television and alger hiss was. the case sort of died out after 1948 because white died of a heart attack two days after giving testimony before the house un-american activities committee. but he actually turns in it are fond of performance before the committee, but he was very, very careful richard nixon was trying to set him up for a perjury charge, kept grilling him, i mean that whittaker chambers and he kept insisting, i do not

recall. so long way of answering your question again, i have no evidence about the relationship between the two. generally speaking, the most important soviet moles at the time weren't treasury and not in the state department. >> did he have direct influence on the state department to hand over eastern europe? >> no, that was certainly be going too far. just because he had no an event after fdr died. both he and morgan were sidelined. he did have enormous influence if i could just be allowed. he put them in charge of producing the occupation currency that the u.s. would use in germany after the war on the

soviets were quite insistent that they be given the u.s. currency place. naturally there was fierce resistance within the u.s. administration, but white wanted to do it. he went so far as to totally mischaracterized the memo from general marshall. if you decide to go forward with this scheme, you can do it without interfering with my plans any time after may 1st of the year. white told the various players who were involved in currency discussions that marshall had himself ordered the place to be delivered to the soviet. we did give them the place. the soviets printed up 78 alien occupation marks, which were cashed in as a fixed exchange rate established by harry dexter white and then ultimately cost the u.s. taxpayer in current dollars summer between four and

$6.5 billion. do i have time -- i have been warned i've gone over my time. i'm going to hang around and i'm happy to answer my question. [applause] [inaudible conversations] >> next, bob madison, author of "walking with washington" takes us on a tour of several alexandria, virginia locations important to george washington. >> by retired about 15 years ago and was looking for things to do. the alexandria archaeologists were looking for somebody to develop a walking tour of sites associated with george washington, so i agreed to undertake a project and a

researched. i spent about two years researching the history and came up with 140 sites. i think she was looking for a per-share but i ended up writing a book called "walking with washington" which has two recent george washington. george washington enjoyed a 50 year relationship year by the time it was founded in 1749 when he was 17 until he died in 1799 at the age of 67. he participated in political life in the city. he was a trustee of alexandria and he represented a andrea in the house of the burgesses, the virginia legislature. even when he was president, he made sure when they choose area to be the new site of the nation's capital of alexandria was included in the original district of columbia.

the george washington memorial powers of the city and hunt the largest rate in the nation. alexandria is george washington's hometown kid to three with a cut today include carlyle house, which george washington slept here many times and to gadsby's tavern into christchurch, where he worshiped regularly. this is carlyle house. it was built by john carlisle, one of the founders of alexandria. church washington state rather, also the founder of alexandria. the sister of giancarlo's wife, so the two families got together frequently. they were good amount erdmann washington with come here. you could see how much when he stayed on a tear. even after john carlisle died in

1780, george washington continued to come to visit with members of the family. he came to dine with carlyle's daughters and her family. but coincide with you were george washington dined with robert carlyle. this is the dining room at the carlyle house, were george washington dined many times. this is all original and carved woodwork, original flooring. it's the actual were george washington dined. this is an important moment in american history. in 1755, rodrick came to town and chose carlyle to be his headquarters because he caught a conference at the governor's. john carlisle looked at the grandest congress ever held. it probably was the grandest

congress and to the continental congress in philadelphia 20 years later. and they met in this room. one of the things they taught that was how to pay for the war. but they suggested ways taxing the columnists. remember taxation without representation. and now the room is set up for dinner and it would have been when george washington came for dinner, when he and the other demo maintained here, but also various taverns around town. so let's go over and see gadsby's tavern, which is george washington favorite tavern.

>> probably george washington's favorite tavern. i miss episodes in the early teens centuries and within the cms today was built circa 1785 and a new addition was added 1782. but the new edition is over 200 years, too. other famous people who died here, including john adams, thomas jefferson, james madison. thomas jefferson had his dinner here. john cassidy had a terrific reputation for hospitality. he was no for the really great dinners he would serve. so use well-known all over the area and that's why the president of the united days to come here because it was probably the best place to eat in this entire area. the last year to establish restaurant in baltimore and washington city.

when you think about george washington, you think of them as living the revolutionary war and being this is correct or in your dollar bill. but what is needed that gadsby's tavern is you see and dining and drinking, dancing. he loved to dance, telling stories, meeting friends to your and having conversations. ecm is a real person, not as a statue. we are at right now the ballroom and george washington love to dance. and all the ladies who they wanted to dance with him. the most famous person in the united states is a big thrill. in 1798 in 1799, they came here for birth date falls. the music was a gallery. you have to go through the door

to get in there. virginians love to dance. we have against george washington's going to be at. this would've been the habit of the social season to come to a public george washington. in my book, "walking with washington," you mentioned a number of sites associated with george washington campus and are going to to go to christchurch, where he would worship. >> now we stand in front of christchurch. today you can still go to church on sunday. when they're not having church services, you can go as high. this church is built between 1767 in 1773. under his belt, it was known as the church in the woods. today it's in downtown alexandria you sure of traffic noise. this is george washington

spewing christchurch. he purchased the 36 pounds sitting here with his family, mark and depending what time of his life it is, her children or grandchildren, probably a pretty full pew to have the whole family here. george washington was baptized in the anglican church at the age of two months. he was married in the anglican church in this. in the episcopal church. it's that she would expect of a man of his means. he supported the church financially and also hope to poor people and as the president supported religious freedom. a look at a small number of sites in washington. church russian tennis oliver alexandria. alexandria was very important to church russian tennis.

>> for more information on both tvs recent visit to alexandria, virginia and her local content vehicles, go to c-span.org/local content. >> when it comes to secretary of state of the people around her, what i found striking is her ability to stay focused at all times as much as possible on what is happening. she doesn't get distracted by details that do not have poured, at the details that often matter. she has the ability to save hocus on the big picture. how is what is happening in afghanistan impacting the middle east? how is this the middle east impacting what they're trying to do in asia? she had a good sense of the big picture, the strategy here. and of