analyzes government spending and programs in the his book, "devouring freedom: can big government ever be stopped." dan fagin, director of the science, health and environmental reporting program at the new york university journalism department, examines a small new jersey town in "toms river." professor ira kat znelson discusses what he believes are the causes and consequences of the new deal in, "fear itself." look for these titles in bookstores this coming week and watch for the authors in the near future on booktv and on booktv.org. >> you're watching booktv on c-span2. here's or prime time lineup for tonight beginning at 7:0 eastern. alec foege presents his book, "the tinkerers." then at 9 on "after words," kim

goddess examines hillary clinton's role in u.s. diplomacy broad followed by jeffrey frank whose book "ike and dick." and we conclude tonight's prime time programming at 11:15 eastern with michelle rhee. the former d.c. public schools chancellor writes about education reform in her book, "radical: fighting to put students first." that all happens tonight on c-span2's booktv. >> bethty friedan's "the feminine mystique" was published in 1963. it would play an sweggal role in the second wave of federalism in the united states. a panel discusses the impact of the book 50 years after its publication. this is a little over an hour. >> um, well, first i want to thank the new america foundation for having us. um, i in particular am very

honored to be a moderator, because up until now this late date in my career no one has ever found me moderate enough in my views to actually be moderator. [laughter] so i'm really happy to tonight for the first time in my life moderate a panel. and it's, obviously, a great honor to talk about betty free dan's "feminine mystique" on its 50th anniversary and, obviously, it's a book that has put the spark, um, under the culture and really it's that very, very rare book that one could make the argument that it actually changed people's lives and that it actually changed the culture. it's also come under criticism more recently, um, for not -- for only reflecting the lives of a very small group of people, for not talking about working class women who had no choice but to work all along and not talking about people of other sexual preferences who may have

already found themselves kind of askew or outside of conventional life. but what i want to do today a little bit is talk about, um, the ongoing power of this classic. and i recently taught this book to my undergrads at nyu who, a couple of whom are in this audience, who do not ever hesitate to tell me if something is boring, irrelevant, dated, no longer worthy of their important attention. [laughter] so it was actually kind of amazing to me that in this class, the class really came to life, and the books sort of spoke to them, um n really interesting ways. so i want to talk about the new feminine mystiques that are oppressing us still, and i want to talk about the old feminine mystique and whether it still oppresses us. and, you know, it's very complicated because we obviously live in a world that has been so

transformed by both this book and the movement that followed it that it's almost hard for those of us -- and that's kind of most of us in the room -- who were born after the feminine mystique came out. it's hard for us to imagine those days at all. and i just think about the rapidity of change in my own family with mom sitting here, i can bring this up, when my mother was a child, her father told her only ugly women become lawyers. so that was the world she grew up in. and i grew up in a world where, um, my mother removed the barbie beauty palace that my grandfather gave me -- [laughter] and told me the next morning when i got up eager to play with it that it was lost. [laughter] and, you know, 1970s new york city. and then my daughter, we were watching the obama/hillary presidential election, and she was tiny, she was, like, 5, and she said -- i said, you know, she was a big obama supporter,

and i said, you know, wouldn't it be cool if there was a woman president? and she looked at me really disdainfully, and she said, mom, of course there's been a woman president. [laughter] and it was, like, amazing that within that short time we went from only ugly women became lawyers to of course there's been a woman president in a 5-year-old girl. so that said, it's very hard for those of us who grew up in a world in which our feminine class, you know, books that are causing people to talk today have names like "the richer sex" or "the end of men." we live in a world where more women than men get college educations, women are for the first time in the majority in the workplace, in managerial positions, so it's very hard for us to look back into that other time. and i was -- you know, even though we abstractly understand that things were different, we don't know, um, we can't really see and feel it exactly. i interviewed janet malcolm for the paris review, and she told me that, um, when she was in

college she had not a single woman professor. and i was just shocked. i was astonished that even though i know that life was like that, it was kind of astonishing to me. so for my first question i was going to ask, um, our two panelists who were alive when "the feminine mystique --" [laughter] to just describe just for a moment one, um, your first, your experience when you first read the book, and is it overblown or exaggerated to say that this book changed people's lives? >> oh, i don't think there's any question, i mean, of course it changed people's lives. it's still changing people's lives. it is passed down through the culture. and it was the greatest social revolution probably is since the suffragists. and that movement took a hundred years. this movement will take a hundred years. we're only halfway through -- [laughter] and we have to count on the younger ones to really push it along. but i remember reading the feminist mystique in my mother's

bathroom. it was one of the few books that she read. but it wasn't possible for her to move on it because although she was of a gifted singer and she was quite attractive and a natural businesswoman, and she was eager, eager, eager to work, but she's living in a suburban housewife role with two children, and my father refused to let her work because it would have suggested -- as it would many men thought at the time -- that it meant he couldn't support his family. so she was frustrated. you know, it was either value yule or -- valium or vodka, you know, what kept these women going. and it wasn't until she was of in their 50s and she went to aa and met another man and became a businesswoman. but she lost, you know, half of her life. i thought i was going to be totally different from her. i loved her. i was compassionate, but i, you

know, certainly saw that that route was not the right one. but what happened to me? i married a man who i loved, but he was going, starting medical school. so i thought, aha, this is cool. because i have to support us. so i have an excuse to have a career. that was my strategy. and i was totally, um, rejected by the other wives of medical students because i was such an oddball. wanting a career, you know, that's just so ballsy. and then, um, we got divorced and having put hubby through before there was any sense of recompense for that sort of thing -- [laughter] i was a single mom. like katie. and then that changed, you know, my whole trajectory. then i really became a feminist. but at that time, i mean, i started the herald tribune, i was in the women's department because that's the only place you could get a job as a woman

writer. and i had to sneak down the back stairs and dare to go across the dmz which was the city room where women weren't allowed to get into the office of the sunday magazine editor, clay felker, and pitch him a story. and thereby i developed a mentor who allowed me to, you know, move ahead. gloria steinem who was a little older than i but -- and much more politically sophisticated -- what did she do? she had to take a job as a bunny to get a story, and then that hung on her forever. but it was only clay who was starting new york magazine where ariel was an editor for a long time who had a mother who was a journalist, and so he really had no attitude about women. he thought if they're talented, let's move them up. and we can also pay them a little less. [laughter] so he, he actually not only fostered my career, but he gave

gloria the first column written by a woman in politics, a political column, city politics, which lasted for many, many years. and when she wanted to start ms, of course she couldn't raise money. who was going to give money to a women who was going to publish a magazine about, you know, strident women. clay said this is a great magazine idea. let's put it inside the covers of new york. so he midwifed this building -- i mean, this magazine, 30 pages inside new york magazine with the cover on the outside as well as the inside. and it sold out. gloria called in a panic because she couldn't find it in california where she was, you know, leading a grape pickers' strike, i think, and said, oh, there's no magazine out here. clay said, it's sold out. so that was a great exhibition of a collaboration between a male mentor and a female aspirant which i think we've sort of lost sight of today. we think only women can help women, but actually why not, you

know, seek out a sponsor who's already at the top? n. >> okay. mom? when you read "the feminine mystique," do you remember where you were? how it affected you? >> no, i don't remember where i was. i'm not even sure i know exactly how it affected me. but i do know how everything that came before affected me. and i can only say that, um, there was no, there were so few possibilities for women that we were, um, expected to be married by 21 or 22, we were expected to raise children, we were not expected to do anything, we were not expected to make money, and we were, um, not protected against what would happen if we were divorced or someone died. we had no resources to earn our own living, and the

vulnerability led us to behave towards men, um, as if they were demigods. some of them were maybe, some of them were not. i think that when the feminist mystique came out, betty friedan, and really it was betty friedan herself, we have to member this, put into words what was in so many people's hearts that they themselves couldn't have articulated, they couldn't have said. and she managed to say it. and the effect across this country was like an electric shock. it was as if somebody -- i don't think of anything else, perhaps martin luther king. but i can't think of anything else that's happened in my lifetime that actually you felt as if together we were going to change the world. we went on a feminist march to washington. we went on peace marchs

together, groups of women. and suddenly we were, we had a voice. we were different. we were -- we needed, somebody had to pay attention to us. and it was overwhelming which is what made me vigilant about barbie and the hairdresser. [laughter] but i remember, i remember going to the brooklyn museum to see judy chicago's dinner table with plates of all different -- dedicated to the different women throughout history who had made contributions. now, i'm not judging this as a work of art, that's not my field. but i can tell you i was there with katie and her younger sister, and i felt as if world was turning. we were going to do this thing. now, i may have thought it was sitler -- simpler than it turned out to be. i may not have anticipated what

would happen if you had three children and a corporate lawyer job. but the exuberation of it, the extraordinariness. i'm just going to say one more thing, and then i'm going to stop. i took a writing class with sarah lawrence. the year was 1956. the professor was somebody namedhorse gregory who was a pose -- horace gregory who was a poet, and it was an all girls' school at that time. we sat around a table, and we read our pape ors. and -- papers. and some girl, woman, had gone to reno to get a divorce, and you had to live there for six weeks. and she came back with a detailed report on everything that had happened during her six weeks many in reno. and i was spellbound by this report. i mean, it was, you know, the whole -- the world she was describing, the way she felt, rivetted. she gets to the end of it, and

horace gregory turns to her and says what makes you think anybody would be interested in your divorce? and there was this silence, you know? because i couldn't have been the only one who was rivetted by this story. [laughter] but there was also the possibility women can't write because we don't have subjects. what would my subject be? what would i do? i wasn't in a war. i can't write a book like hemingway. you know, the sense that we were pushed aside -- and, yes, there was doris lessing and, yes, i must have read her 110 times. but that was just doris lessing. ..

how unbelievably fast a world transformed so when we went in the space with the idea of a woman working it serves observers said and transgressive and all it back to where we are now, we can say there's all kinds of problems to be addressed. in terms of opportunity, women have the kind of opportunity that could not be imagined in

1863. so let's talk about whether this is the feminine mystique she's writing about. have we given up this romanticized vision? have we given that this idea of family at the fantasy -- [inaudible] >> and what motherhood is. >> i don't think we've walked away from that. something interesting to me is it's so exciting to hear you say we really talked because you bloody well did. here's all the things that change and of course there's been a woman president.

it's probably the single most striking thing to me looking at the book now was the notion that we don't appreciate all the chain. that put my mind that she said resent the first half of the century fighting for her right in the second half not appreciate them down. she's writing on 1953. this is exactly the reaction now of course. i think that was one obvious rates and a tank if there's a systemic and can do everything. this is not the fault of feminism. this is an opportunity feminism has enabled. the fact of the matter is you cannot do every single thing at the same time.

it can't be done. i don't think we've given up the idea at all and all we've done is that we can do it all at once. >> i'm glad we haven't given that. it's not a fantasy. it's a wonderful thing. the vast majority of women do want that at some point. also of educated women, something like 40% of educated aspirational women have children at the age of 40. which is pretty germanic. we had to attachment parenting in the last decade, where women are encouraged to be very, very close to their children.

interestingly, even studies done about women who want their educated to the idea that you would drop out if you out if he thought offramp as sylvia has put it, it's eco-offerings in your job in your 30s for five years to have children in the home at the, you will get back on where you left off and you will pay in all kinds of ways. women are still choosing to do that. the majority of women are still choosing a non-in your path and taking some time now. a great encouragement is to stay to our become a mantra for newer or you can work from home. >> not everybody has that skill set. >> that's true. >> i think they've forgotten we

had a war i won't even call it it -- within and between women who made different choices. i have to say we better not glorify this. there is a real nastiness going on between the women who had jobs, who felt themselves infinitely better or perhaps threatened. so the women who are making cookies relive it and put down and humiliated at the women climbing up some kind of professional ladder. it is extremely unpleasant. >> cookie baking never lost its punch. that's what hillary clinton said as i could have stayed home and baked cookies and people were appalled. >> i want to read a quote from

the feminine speech -- [inaudible] she read about how women moved into the work place, and her lash out or -- [inaudible] >> idea for doing herself over and over again said it was her choice. she did not say you must get the top-level job. she said you need to be free to choose the kind of life you want that may work or it may or not. even though when i looked at the feminine mystique again, i thought it was not very kind to the housewife staying home. i think politically you cannot dismiss many, many hundreds of thousands of people like

choices. you have to respect them and let them feel pride in themselves. >> i think that's true. >> you don't want to be denigrating. i don't think it's an feminism interest with the reality to be denigrating childcare. passwords. >> you know, i'm very encouraged i think they have that a lot of them. one of the things i found interesting is that woman quite well known now as the copresident of a company. she started out at 22 joining the only black-owned investment firm in the country and she was identified right away by the president has been great talent and promise.

when she was 24, he took her to meet one of the biggest ceos in the country and set on proving you to be president. she then elected to be is chris tucker. she jumped whenever he spoke. everything including writing thank you notes to the parents of his children's sleepovers. i managed 28, he made her president. she was completely career oriented writing to her that her knees. she said he might be nice to have a date once in a while or you meet men. she went out for somebody fairly prominent, the filmmakers "star wars" and they are now engaged and she's 43. she probably will never have children because she really didn't have time. what she says about young women

who come to her to be a mentor to simply talk about berkeley talents, she knows they will not remove the two senior positions. in her firm or any other because they will have to be unidirectional for at least 10 years. there really aren't an awful lot of women who find that appealing to us to be a ceo where you give 110% of your time for that. for those who aspire to that, i hope i get more and more of them. it's really a narrow portion of the female population that finds that appealing, don't you agree? >> is because you only have half. if we've actually changed the world, then the world would make this possible. >> were not satisfied and it isn't going to work.

but i think it's not because the failure. it's not permanent. if something happening now because we haven't changed the whole society. all we did was change what women want. now we have to change what men want and what society is willing to do for universal day care. we have to make this a completely different far south. >> that such an important point. one of the things that makes me so sad as we were really close. the walter mondale pushed bipartisan, where they were going to have universal preschool and day care like they do in scandinavian countries. it was nixon who said we don't want to put it behind a nontraditional family function.

and that would've changed so much. i think i would change so much. >> just paid maternity leave. >> it's going to have to comb through private companies because the government is going to do it. they can't pay for entitlements of hostile fire. we have to work on companies. there's enough pressure if young women coalesce in a new movement towards that, i think i can help. google in new york just expanded to 12 weeks. 12 weeks maternity leave because they had too many women leaving. that's what happens.

they improved their retention rate and it's paying off. >> are names in the air already. the attack she's been attracting because when we talk about how to solve these problems, they're actually are women ceos that have stepped forward and most notably sandberg and she's kind of been an astonishing amount of venture out. i've written about on one level we really want more women ceos. those who say that kind of hate the women ceos who do have. we really can't stand a million things about them. it's worth thinking a little bit about why. she's trying to do some of the things we think about this next

stage revolution and she's trying to talk to women about how to succeed in a high-level business structure. kind of to a great deal of anger critics from feminists, from lots of nice thinking liberals. i'm just curious what you make of her after and the kind of hostility towards her and tried to think their way through this problem. >> is so inconceivable to me, working a job like that. i can't relate to it at all. everybody here is a writer. can anyone relate to having that corporate jumped quite excited

no idea what it entails. [inaudible] >> that's the other one. the reason you're mixing them up in favor of marriage in. that charlotte sandberg are they both and she's talking about how women shouldn't be for this to work place. you have a lot of practical advice that is not in spite of some of the critiques of her. it's really not symbols slaves to go home at 5:30 and had dinner with the kids. she has this religion is obviously very rich. it's kind of a weird thing to attack a successful ceo for her.

>> it's kind of the same thing about a lot of criticisms are for. this is a white privileged, well-educated elite situation. it's a valid critique of that boat that's a valid critique to say for the ceo coming of the the power to say i'm leaving at 5:30. on the other hand they have power. if somebody in early position posting seneca direction, that's not so bad. >> it's not reproducible though. it does make many women struggling terribly to figure out the balance to be fair, to go through this terrible baby hunger that women feel a six-month limit on paid maternity leave is over and they have to go back to work because they have to work and they don't want to leave their child. that is the reality for most women who have children and a good job and they don't get to

go home at 530 at clock to have supper with her kids. forget it if they're going to move out. it's a natural antipathy to having the books say you're just not working hard enough. figure it out, girls. >> i don't think that's a fair representation at all. there is a great piece in "the new yorker" which are geared for people who criticize this hadn't read this book. >> that's because they don't have enough copies out. >> i think that's unfair of what she is saying. >> there is a writer, i don't know if you remember lois schooled. lois schooled suddenness culture if someone raises their head out of general lack, takes a deep breath and says something, someone on the shore with her

rocket that had. it's also completely true. there's a hostility of women that they think we have not begun to deal with as anyone who has anything slightly out of their hands for whatever dogma says you should say look at viciously attacked by another set of women. it's not a question of when right side and run site. i'm not saying that. i'm just saying the urge to attack is very strong and i don't know what we do about it. i don't know how we can cut it down a nicer i don't want to send a message we all love each other and tell each other how good we all are. it's just something how the

social movement, anything that moves is going to get attacked. >> i think you're ready. one of the things that have been in representing sandberg's position is how we came to view her. there were prominent journalists who really irresponsibly hide the location of her pier one of them is on the front page of the times and she is said to mean sane anyways for myself or and a socialist movement. the actual cloak which is boring was working for a nonprofit. by taking the first part, they made it sound like she has great ambitions and aspirations of a life and wants to be gone and so of course people pounce on her and mock her.

one issue quite well thought of for "the new york times" was do something so borderline unethical because it is really want to misquote somebody like that. it's also telling she has the original quote i want to make a socialist movement. should we all take our guns and shoot her? for a woman to have this great nation work with an idea automatically causes anxiety and anger and hostility. >> i would only point out but speaking of women who we all love it when they cut a bunch, batty for dan was a piece of work and she warned against the man hating or operating segment. she was not somebody who said if you're a feminist, you're fine

with me. >> you're distorting the history just a little bit. >> fixed me up. >> there was a group within the feminist movement that was disapproved of the family size of the feminist movement to got to be a lot of hostility. pity for dan on a book tour for i not remember which one of her books, was greeted at various libraries for not only tickets for bomb threats. these did not come from some pakistani terrorists. they came from women's groups that were very, very her at her. we really have to remember. i don't know who started that site. it is true that there was a room

full of 10 women and there was one man in the corner. then you would go to talk to that man. that was part of her charm. but what i really think was for a while and unfortunately died down, it looked to explode whole movement. for those of us who were there, it wasn't not her other family women are right or anything of the sort. it's what are you doing to earn the name? >> there was another part to that. there was a man haters. there were a lot of man haters given the names of ball busters, the man hating women in the whole movement that ever hath in

the mainstream and it is very threat name. i didn't become a feminist until 1970 and neither did gloria, mainly because i didn't want to be part of that and i was scared the man i loved would think i was. i went on the march is indeed the things, but i had a real struggle between i don't want to give up the loving compassionate nurturing man was inside of myself to be part of this movement. do i have to? i was a real struggle for many others. >> i can't remember if it's in the feminine deceit here she must've said in an interview that some women were some people read her as saying, join the revolution. all you have to choose is your man here she said no -- fabulous marketing.

right? >> i want to think a little bit more about how we can identify our own problems, which have no name and the feminine mystique's survey definition hard to recognize when you live in a culture of how you talk about it. i want to think about that. but i'm a student said this kind of like we had that feminine mystique and then all this new other staff which kind of speaks to having it all question we talked about earlier. a book called the conflict in which we talk about our style of parenting. ways in which we panic, which are taken hominis amounts of industry that could be spent on other more fulfilling for intellectual proceeds. what do you think are the problems that don't have a name?

>> i think it's so funny that's coming from a french woman and then you have this giant bestseller. if we could just not make the kids and it ain't. anyway, i don't think this is the most important problem, but i do think it's a misconception to some extent that the kind of fortification means we have liberated. i do think that's in it. i don't think it's the most important thing, but i think it's a myth. i did a whole book about interviewing young women about why argue flashing for girls gone wild? why argue, when you don't have experience come away do you already think it's your responsibility to look as skanky

as possible. i think there's confusion about the difference between -- there's confusion because it's confusing. between filling a new role, the antithesis and being totally liberated. i think it was another issue that was always confusing when you talk about what caused. sex was pretty fractious. >> we had many, many demonstrations against it. >> i'm not clear why this is a feminist issue that survives young women. i don't quite understand what this says. >> okay, i think first of all

i'm starting from the assumption that there is such a thing as feminists who argue against that . and feminists is that if feminism is about freedom and choice but to participate or watch it or sell it, that's their choice. that's for this is starting. i think the anti-porn feminism failed. i think there's a lot of confusion about the family women have come so far they're free to express themselves or does it mean we've internalized our obligation to be sex objects. i think it's a confusing question. >> i'm just wondering whether we would want to rephrase that as

the. same effect on our culture, which still raises no matter what we do. you know, i not see this precisely is a feminist issue because surely it is facts are made some sense equally. >> which is the feminine mystique which she stars as saying for the new man, too. >> the one she was waiting for. the issue, as not just every generation struggles with slightly different names, but i would be happy if we were able to solve the question of how do you get -- how can a woman get

through her work life and family life without losing her mind? of resolve that problem, there would be wonderful. then they go to what can we do about corneille, human nature. that i think is a problem. >> one last question is obviously much to talk about, which is an amazing book. i want to ask one question, kind of brought name it out. we know now ready for dan was a marxist. she had serious political ideas. joan didion talks about her country study resistance to political ideas. @label she's critiquing this ideal virtual life does not just

about men -- not just about women, but about men. everybody living in this culture are trying to get infinite cumulate and indeed these conventional lives. that's why wondering what she would make of our world world now because they had if we think of the marxist and some of the sub text of the book, i wonder what she would make a better dream, our idea of a successful family life is still quite narrow and not that different from 1855. >> i would say it's very different because both men and women spend much more time preparing themselves educationally and occupationally , postponing until late 20s, early 30s.

women married at 21, nine at 23. now it's late 28th and were heavily aspirational women, maybe mid-80s, late 30s, having children have reproductive education was fantastic. we are an entirely different economic situation. we are in a somewhat declining history. job opportunities for women coming into this long recession are so truncated by one of the good things they see you now is women who are aware of this and come out of college having worked through college if they pay for their college and graduate school, they come out in their mid-to-late 20s maybe 100,000, 200,000 published lies they have to pay off.

the one into the social entrepreneurs so many do, they can't do. they then have to take a job in some high paid position. if they went to law school to go to corporate law and be bored to tears, but they have to do it for five, 10 years to get the money to do their passion. that's a big difference. when i wrote passages in the 1970s, the most famous business book and remains to today's what color is your parachute? the thesis they are to start out following your passion. who can afford to do that is a 25-year-old who finished college? they have to work and get some -- it takes a decade to pay off those loans for most people unless they came from wealthy families. the other thing that is a big advance is the boomer generation

inherited the feminist revolution and pushed it forward. 80% way. the generation of young people today is far more diversified and there's a lot of young african-american, asian indian american, hispanic who voted for obama, who are very much responsible for the reelection of obama and who are hoping to mentor younger, poorer women, which were left out of the revolution. women who didn't have a lot to do for even lower middle-class women. there is a lot of there is a lot of arginine intention, but they didn't get included a lot and neither did women of color. now it's much more horizontal in that way. one of the things i find exciting young woman starting at

18 and 22 to try and halt younger poorer women to learn code, learn how to build websites, print a skill like the taping of the past that allows them to get into low-level position and move out because they know technology the future. >> ready for dan undoubtedly would have been ostracized and killed in 1962. there's no way she could've express any name that could've been traceable to marxist tradition and any book that is going to be rad. >> can we look and apply it to now? we are too involved, even though were not reading back, --

>> is probably all true. but when he used the word marxist, let's remember one of the things that happened was that we saw with marxism brought in russia and having seen what marxism brought in russia, the word becomes a dirty word. so what now happened is i think when the very end perfect world, but it's an imperfect world without ideology that we can hang onto. i imagine most people here are not sitting around having coffee, fighting over ideology. you may be fighting over things you want to accomplish and disagree with political disagreements, try to find that was going on in your world. but you are not you have the other and that's the thing that's changed enormously.

>> i think we should open up for questions. anyone or everyone. >> i want to make a comment. i was just at a panel at nyu about women and the law under this nyu's first annual conference on women in the law. the reason i was there as my mother was a speaker. she was a nationalist ossetian women lawyers and started an annual survey. first a sociologist who choose growing up she was told she had to be a teacher at the age of 40 graduate from law school had was a major part of an two major law firms. she always felt very upset by what she saw and how the treatment of women in law firms even though she was to be men should partner at a major law firm, she started annual survey

of law firms across the country in which she found his 15% of women today in 2013 make equity partner across the board. roughly 15% of women are able to make equity partner in law firms across the country was the statistic they found. that's actually really sad. somebody got up and said you know, a lot of times women leave and climb the himalayas or the law firm says people if our law firm and make a want to do great things. you know, that's not really the point. don't climb the himalayas, but the question we need to focus on is why are they leaving these law firms? point to michelle obama. sure she's had this great life. what is it about the structure of law firms and not allowing

women to advance to become equity partners. there's plenty of associate and end up in law firms for five years that are basically forced to leave. my question i guess it's structurally what needs to happen concretely in americas for places? >> i would hesitate to address law firms, but i do think working for familia, one of the things is many people don't work for fulfillment and a lot of people recommend law firms in particular may not working for for filenet. sometimes they think -- i'm not trying to say the himalayas question, but i wonder if the models we have with the educated women should be using their brains in some way.

there is something for both men and women is pretty distorted. i think that the question of whether you can have a life outside the law firm for either a man or woman. if you're a young man at 34 and have a newborn baby, are you ever going to see that newborn baby? are both men and women if they punishing culture. the role occupied in our life is complicated. >> nightingale school about 15 years ago, an all girl school had a career day on the principle incited a corporate lawyer part or who was the mother of a child in the school to come and speak and she came and spoke and talked about all the wonderful things she did as part or and then there is a

question. for girls between routine and 18. the first question -- the second question is what happens if your child to equate the third question is how often are you able to spend the whole weekend with your child? not one of these girls asked this one many think about the law or the law or for her political grief country and believe for corporate belief. the women who are corporate lawyers. underneath them, the generations they are raising is complaining something needs to be done. it's not so simple. but then half success in the law firm a quote. it's not going to work.

>> were talking about seti for dan and a culture where women couldn't have careers. joe collins writes in 1960 there were as many women, the vast majority who were married working as they were at the height of world war ii and all the men were away. what that tells you if it's not that women didn't work when she wrote this book. it's that women didn't work for fulfillment. plenty of women have to work and it. adding a mac >> i have the privilege of teaching this book and talking to students about it. i guess my first question is whether you think today there's been sort of a backlash, the idea that staying at home are

being a stay-at-home mom is something that is a dirty word and that's not something anyone should entertain a sequel or aspiration. on the other side of it, when i talk about other feminist taxes, students premise but they say by saying i am by no means a feminist and then they say something incredibly feminist. i wonder if you think there's a stigma for having the word feminist and what we can do to fix that. >> i said maybe we shouldn't fixate. most recently they don't consider themselves a feminist. as one of my colleagues wrote argued, maybe the fact to consider themselves a feminist means the term is no longer useful. she obviously believes many things we think of them students

who believe the feminist things. so should we keep trying to make people aware a big sign or should we just be the fact that we may not see this bird is a sign of the success of the movement. is a tremendous success of the women on most marches? is a sign of succeeding that we don't need that word anymore and these ideas are so assimilated in two rdna that we may not need it anymore. >> i think what color sells women's advocates. say much more neutral term. feminists became a dirty word among gen x. obviously among your students we do have to get away from that. you do need a name. you have to have a brand. so that's our brand? for women's advocates, women activists.

we still want to help women understand how to succeed in their lives and we need to do this. we need to hope. >> i wish i knew. >> i wish i knew, too. >> she would say how the woman was bemoaning how her daughter didn't call herself a feminist. she said yes, because she knows she is quite i do think that if your daughter saying to you, there has anyone tried them and and doesn't say i'm a feminist, there's another way to look at it. that said, i think it's a perfectly nice word. >> i think we have to add.

talk amongst yourselves. >> i just had two points. one is that video is advocated to change the workplace undervalue semiotics, not to penetrate the glass ceiling, although she was for that also come in to change the value of the work please send an event could have it all. that hasn't really come up here. i don't know if it is the feminist, but it is certainly future books and what i learned growing up. women now, if they want to have it all, they do if they somehow navigating their work place in designing their own solution and to make it the lateral track and not the direct upward track. she was advocating we should have societal structures that do that for us. i was one thing about the word faith. the other thing is pity for dan

was not a marxist and that's not a proven fact. it's very upsetting to your giving us that although i like most of what you say otherwise. she had a profound sense of social is an profound social justice was many things including her a rename and where she grew up in many, many things. in the 40s she grew up studying intellectual in college and certainly played with leftist ideas and everything. does anybody see the way we were? everybody intelligent at that time. she would say which he called the missing communists. >> is were marxists have certain resonances. what they mean issued a strongly developed class conscience and

thought more seriously about class and a more rigorous way than in the book. maybe that's a better way to talk of it. i guess to be a time for one more question? one more question. >> make it a good one. >> this is more of a comment based on the last thing with identifying as a feminist. i feel like it actually has to do a lot with what ariel writes in her book with this sort of hesitation to stand up for yourself in a sense because you don't want to be out within. having especially in the class picture reading "the feminine mystique," a refusal to identify as a feminist in that shows there is this extreme backlash in our culture that still access. did you guys see the oscars?

is to say we are beyond the word feminism is may be wishful thinking and lovely, but i don't get factually true. so that's all. [applause] >> thanks, everyone. have a glass of wine. [applause] >> next, learn about the history of the alexandria police department. author amy bertsch uses photos to tell the story of alexandria. >> the name of the book is the alexandria police association from a federal history book which specializes in history and

topography. look at the alexandria police department really found reference to two police case for, to the actions of police officers killed in the line of duty. to some very compelling history. the more i learned about the police department and the more i learned about alexandria past, the more i wanted to learn. it starts in 1807 and really sets in 2006 when you're getting ready to publish. fortunately there is a history to go with it at the police department, local library on a lot of good collections. it touches on the very early days of police in alexandria, which really gave to the late 18th century. the alexandria police department itself was published in 1878 and that's really where the buck starts. there were photographs taken of

crashing at the crime scene, but also members of the police department simply doing their jobs and contacting the citizens and off-duty work as well. powerful photos were taken at reversing an errant and extraordinary cases. they weren't high-profile cases, but it gives you a glimpse into what life is like at the moment the tragedy occurred. participants don't have a chance to clean up and so you really see how people were living at the time the tragedy occurred. the photographs from the 1940s and the geese are just very powerful images to look and see what's going on in somebody's home or barber shop or restaurant. things like prohibition and traffic enforcement that when we

had to start enforcing prohibition and enforcing traffic authoress resisting from citizens to see what was once a cooperative relationship between citizens and police have to start getting people for driving or liquor, i'll call this man in virginia a few years before legislation was passed. there were people who believed they could go to the potomac and consume liquor, that was not illegal. earlier, the alexandria police department was a pretty small area responsible for patrolling and to see by the alexandria a bowl and double again in a matter of 20 years really change the department for sapping our vehicles and ultimately move to a new police station because they couldn't fit in the

original station house. one of the stories this interesting is how officers began enforcing speed limits. for the first 47 years, they didn't have cars. they had foot or emergency situation where is the. there were not motorized vehicles. speed limits had to be put into place. the question was how to stop somebody somebody for speeding? today we have radar with so many type. 1910, 1911 was no time to do that. the two officers at one corner one block. then someone they know tried to post it the limit and they caught them sitting there with a maximum speed was in a certain number of seconds. that's how they would determine if some of the speeding. being able to approach the cars the whole another matter, but at least they had a way to enforce

speed limits. in 1865, alexandria finally hired its first police officer color. albert beverly in king george county. there have been pressures for a number of years to higher a black police officer. pressure from the mayor and the community. the police chief said he wanted to do it. he repeatedly said i have to find the right person. he wanted somebody who would be successful. his son jackie robbins then. he did enjoy a 20 year career. one thing that's interesting is the 1974, the president of the united states lived here for a week and a half. what happened is the time was jump forward when the vice president when nixon resigned. it happened that time they been living there for like 20 years.

we take a while to move into the white house. for a week and a half, the president of the united states would wake up in alexandria and go greet his neighbors and the media and then he would be escorted to work at the white house. they were detailed to provide security near his home, on the street where that was going on. when world war ii had, a lot of men had to serve in the war and so pretty soon there was the need or want to start working in the department and that's when they hired their first secretary, the women civilians who were born in 1952 trade police officers from more important things.

so the department hired women to serve as crossing guards because they were three african-americans. not only was this the first time women wearing uniform, it is the first time people of color were in uniform representing the alexandria police department. the alexandria police department was one of the earliest stage of these to use canines and police were. they deployed the first unit in 1959. within a couple years there is a police officer who trained his dog to respond to radio command and the k-9 corps unless you're a bad guy trying to get away, the one who trained as with the radio command and fortunately was killed the line of duty. the alexander alexandria police

association is much like it was in the 1930s. they were to support the interests of members who are largely police officers. the officer has a family situation, a personal crisis people reach out enough for support to the family. they also provide scholarships to stephen in high school. perhaps they arrange for holiday dinners for seniors, social events from a where's, a variety of benevolent goodwill. >> author michael lipo describes each location and discusses important of alexandria's history next on booktv.

>> the next book is hidden history of alexandria d.c. the last part is very important because it's not about alexandria, virginia. it's appeared in history when the district of columbia concluded hearts of what is now virginia. i went to look at the 50 year time. i get a sense of why alexandria became part of the district of columbia, what went wrong and why it left. one of the things they wanted to do is give people a sense of what life was like. firefighting work very differently in this time period. kramer differently. slavery played a crucial role in this time. politics are very different. lots of research on the politics. this is what was essentially democratic to be. i thought that was interesting because today in the modern world of the democratic town.

they're sort of a through line you can look back the political divisions and that still exist today. when i was doing research for the book, i found three places i would like to take you to get a sense of what it was like to live in alexandria d.c. one is to point park, the original number marker for the southernmost tip. the other is the dueling ground, wasting this tool took place between secretary of state henry clay and virginia senator john randolph. the other places the infamous slave pen, which is where we're headed next. we're standing one of the hidden gems of old town alexandria. this is the infamous slave pen at the franklyn slave dealers. are located right in the basement of the northern virginia urban league.

this was at one time the most promise. business in america. franklin would roundups lades from all points. virginia, maryland, even delaware and bring them here, process bound and then they had kids. the reason men skimp on one side and women's on the other side. they were not to co-mingle with each other and they were kept until they could be sold in large quantities downsize. then they would be transported via schippers sometimes marche township to mississippi and louisiana. when the union army invaded alexandria: the first places they came to see the slave pen because it is an infamous by an slavery featured in newspapers and some of the soldiers came here, they came to the basement where we are standing and owned slaves shackled to the wall. slavery played an