in the second row. >> hi, my name is -- [inaudible] my question is that we talk about gay marriage and erg, i think that other things you haven't talk about -- talk about the equal protection about, like, discrimination against gay people, basically in certain states people can fire people if

they are gay or they just don't like the kind of lifestyle or something. people -- in terms of equal protection, i think that's a very serious thing do even if you talk about marriage. >> any reactions? >> well, i don't like discrimination laws in general. i think private organizations should be hire and fire for whatever reason or no reason that they want. so i'm not sure that the solution is to expand the number of lawsuits that are going to be filed on all of these various bases. from what private organizations do. these issues here that we have debated yesterday and today about government does and it has to treat all citizens equally as they come. >> yeah. i disagree with that point. i think the law that's say places of public accommodation, places open to the public, not popularly private.

organizations, companies, that welcome the public in can properly be prevented from discriminating on classification such as sexual orientation, race, et. cetera and there's a long standing american tradition of upholding those laws. but i do agree with him what we're taunt with the freedom to mary is even worse it's the government that the discriminator. the government denying marriage licenses. in my view, all discrimination is bad, it's most intolerable by the government against any group of americans. i want to add one other thing, my favorite moment, or at least one of them from the argument yesterday when was justice sotomayor asked the opposing side, the antigay side, apart from the context of marriage for a moment, can you think of any other context. in any other context, employment, other kinds of protection, housing, et. cetera is there any rational good

reason for discriminating against let's bee began and gay men. even the opponent couldn't say. he said i don't think so. he conceded there's no good reason for discriminating against gay people. i think that's extremely powerful and shows how far we have come. now we have to turn to law. >> you don't stop being a lawyer because you are a judge. it actually surprises me that the battle is takes place on the marriage hill rather than on say the adoption hill. there are more stays that allow gay adoption than gay marriage. if the prominent interest is to have a union of a man and woman to raise the children and the state's interest is regulating procreation and only when a heterosexual couple have accident l pregnancies and et. cetera, shouldn't it be on regulating child law and not a marriage. it's a curiosity to me. >> it's -- they -- [inaudible]

gay marriage at the early stage but making it difficult for gays to become parents. i was asked the other day at the cato event why it was. one reason may be the adoptable schirn lower in europe and higher here. another is europe has a progressive tradition that children belong to the state. we avoided having it in the united states of america. further questions? yes, the second row on my left. >> it's -- [inaudible] my question is that how can you isolate same-sex marriage issue from [inaudible] christian brother and sister take -- [inaudible] if you allow this what is going to stop you to marry with your brother or sister? and the second thing is, how can you -- in muslim and during

9/11, i used to go to ncc national community -- [inaudible] and after 9/11 they made me take -- [inaudible] so they conceded that 1 million muslims in the country and -- [inaudible] they are going to take over the country and have their own central more trailty push on the country and country for good. >> any response? >> in the last point. . >> [inaudible] >> community we have -- [inaudible] [inaudible] >> we need -- [inaudible] >> you asked a question. let me . >> the second one i think what is at issue before the court is civil marriage, and in fact we in our brief, the brief of 135

republican and conservative officials signed we made very clear that we believe, and we believe it is correct policy of the establishment protects them from having a perform a ceremony they don't want to perform. the reality is that today the faith community has guide on the question. there are some religious organizations and some churches and synagogues that believe they ought to marry members of the same gender and others shouldn't. it's wrong for the government to second guess their decision. they make ought to make the decision and the government will respect that. the issue is civil marriage -- i've noticed in a number of poles, a higher percentage of people who think there's a constitutional right to mary and support -- marry that supports marriage. that seems counter intuitive. it seems weird if you think about. there's actually depth of

insight, i think that you have to consider there. what they're saying, i don't personally support it, the law ought to treat people pay the same taxes and serve in the same military, put their lives on the like the same. that's with a we're talking about. civil marriage, so whatever organization anyone is part of, private organization, has a right and should have a right to do what it wants. >> i agree with ken. the question that is always thrown out the specter of political my polygamy and the horrible. whenever people bring it up it's almost indication they don't have a reason why loving and committed gay couples should be -- and spend the rest of the air time talking about polygamy or whatever. the other really important point to understand is gay people are not saying let's have no rules, let's just do anything and anybody can do anything. what gay people are saying let

us have what you have just as you have the freedom to marry, the person who is precious to you whom you're building a life with, so should we have that under the law. churches, religions, and churches synagogues, temple, mosque are free under the first a ement to do what they want. they should not be dictating to the government who gets the marriage license and excluding gay people from the opportunity take the commitment in law to match the commitment in life that they're making. >> just to evan's point. if you think about it, it's actually a tremendous success for and contribute to the arguments that proponent of a social conservative world view have made for the past several years. there was a debate in this country in the '60s and '70s is marriage a good thing. is it good for people to settle down and make a lifelong commitment? that was a real debate bhap it's about is people saying the proponent of the traditional way of thinking are right. and we shouldn't take a group of

people and exclude them from the traditional approach. i think, you know, andrew cameron said he supports it i think that's absolutely true. i stay as a conservative it's true from a social conservative perspective. >> i think it illustrates the danger and the problem with the government in intruding the tentacle to more and more spheres of life. if, you know, if health care weren't nationalized we wouldn't be talking about contraceptive mandate. if the government didn't have a heavy hand in other regulations we shouldn't be talking about if catholic charity have a right to do adoption and refrain from conducting them for facilitating them for a gay couple. i think they should. i'm for religious liberty. the issue here, again, is -- i don't want to repeat what ken and evan said. civil marriage recognized by the government. the best solution for the government get out. but as far as questions and

morality go, living together, getting married, that's kind of the marriage license is a different issue than if you disagree with the morality is i don't know gay sex. that's lawrence v. texas. that's a different set of cases. >> yeah. quite a long time ago, western society separated birth certificate from -- coming of age from the religious equivalence like bar it's a registration in addition that marriage should be separated in the same way. more questions. there was one other here. yes, right by the wall. >> hi, my name is john mor come. i'm an attorney i volunteered on the 2004 bush campaign. in partly i did that bought --

because of my opposition to judicial activism, and ken, i'm baffled by your definition of judicial ability vifm. it seems to be the e pit my of that in the probate case when you were overturning a democratic election based on the evolving standards of terms such as equal protection. >> it's a good question that is one we thought a lot about in the brief and a lot of us thought about over the years. what i would say to you is i also don't like when courts step in and substitute their views and will for that of the people either directly through a referendum or alternatively through a legislature. i do it as someone who believes not simply in judicial constraint but in limited government rodely. it's the -- broadly. it's appropriate for courts to step in when a fundamental right is violated for an inappropriate

reason. a lot of people were upset, for example, when the court threw out the city of dhij and the city of washington's ban on people having and possessing a firearm. i thought it was a right decision. i was pleased, which was not popular in many circles when the court threw out a number of element of the campaign reform laws. and i think that what was right about that was they were saying, even though they were democratically enacted, they violated a fundamental right. marriage is held to be a fundamental right since the '80s if you're a prisoner your right to speech can be taken away, your right to vote can be taken away, your right to select a spouse can't be taken away unless there's a good reason. what a number of us concluded is proposition 8 doesn't meet the reason. it's ab extraordinary measure, it's appropriate for the court to step in. >> that's exactly right. i i was an intern on the '04

campaign. the speaker disagrees with the. he's talk about. it's and empty vessel with whatever the speaker wants to talk about. i don't think the court should be activists or pass ivss. i degree with chief justice roberts turning the individual mandate to a tax and upholding it rather than doing the job and striking down a law he thought would have been constitutional. it's passivism. not enforcing property rights response the debate shouldn't be about whether they are restrained, upholding, striking down, overturning the popular will of the people. it's whether they're interpreting the substitution correctly. people can disagree about that. what's what the argument is about. california is violating individual rights in having prop 8 or not. it's not, you know, is the proper role of the court to say so. >> as i said -- [inaudible conversations] >> yeah. i'm sorry. i have to leave early.

thank you very much. [applause] >> second row. you've had your hand up for quite awhile. >> hi, my name is craig olson. i have a question for mr. shapiro. i'm a little bit baffled by your -- sorry. seem to be against the government issuing marriage licenses. if -- do i read in to that you adopt think that the government has any role at all in regulating any marriage regulations at all, for example, inheritance or parental responsibility to children? no license, no regulation, no responsibility? >> well, no. of course there has to be family law. people live, you know, they're

not some sort of individualist they form families. there are issues of custody with pa tender paternity, with all sort of things that inheritance, there are issues that arise, but people living together and producing children predated the arrival of civil marriage in human history. there are ways that the common law, or even codified law in term of inheritance, bankruptcy whatever else that can take -- that ought to exist. and contract law, of course, how most of them ought to be handled. you sign contract with your whoever you want to marry. spelling out what the rights are for 98% of the people. it would be a simple boilerplate contract for others they could say not this we're adding this or something like that. that's fine. there are room for the operation of law but that's different than saying that the southern has -- sovereign has an interest in

regulating who you can marry or who can marry. >> yes. roger -- [inaudible] from the cato institute. my question is for evan. perhaps ken can answer it. in response to the first question that was asked about the broader implications of this issue in discrimination more broadly. ilya, in response to the question distinguished the private from the public, one way this comes up is in the effort by private parties who have scruples against gay marriage about participating in them. we have the case in new mexico right now of the photographer who declined to participate in the gay marriage, and is being prosecuted for it. it seems to me this is the kind of overreach that could put something of a break on the

momentum we have got right now. it seems to me it's a kind of thing we have to be careful about not to extend it so far. there may be people for whatever reason may not want to. and an overreach of discrimination law can give us something of a backlash. ken, would you . >> sure i think that absolutely that's a very valid concern. i think that if you think about it, the truth is that we're debating this whole question of civil marriage doesn't affect the lawsuit by the effect it's -- there's no access to civil marriage. the reality is there are separate laws in states which -- these are worthy of important debate discussion that define when you're allowed to say no to performing an event or in a ceremony in the case of a photographer. essentially antidiscrimination laws are entirely separate laws. if whether it happened through judicial process like montana or connecticut or alternatively happened through the legislative process or through the

referendum process. we have all three. the effect of civil marriage does not any way change whether the photographer could be sued or not sued. finally, whatever i think we do legally there are going to be people -- we live in a will tick use society. people will bring lawsuits if they are unhappy about something. that absolutely -- without question be discouraged. i think we ought to be thinking about the context it comes up. a debate about civil marriage doesn't affect that particular question as evidenced by where it happened. >> i should add that i believe cato is participating in an amicus brief in the new mexico case on behalf of the photographer. >> it was argued two weeks ago. we are waiting for an opinion. for those interested in the area i have written at some length nearly all the horror stories that come up. come up in states that didn't have same-sex marriage laws. the problem is -- with the

tendency of discrimination law. yes. fourth row. >> two brief questions. the first, is in certain states you have common law marriage, does the state have the right to declare two people whether state or gay married who have never chosen to be married. and my second question. with the rise of states that have civil unions, is there a constitutional right by a state to create a condition that is not marriage for any reason or is this simply by creating civil unions a -- in itself discriminate? >> some states have recognized common law marriage, if you live together long enough, and certain other criteria, produce children, do you hold yourself

as you were a married couple. you can be treated as common law married. i don't think i want it to happen if there's no consent to wanting to be treated as married. again, this is another complication from having a civil marriage regime and having approximation prepolitical which is what common law marriage is institution in the midst as well. i think a lot of these issues can really be taken care of by common law. this came up today, you know, i think chief justice roberts asked, you know, does the federal law, how do you treat state that have common law marriage and some might treat gay marriage and others don't. it -- as far as the civilianon is concerned, that's an issue in the prop 8 case. there could be -- i doubt the court will rule this way given how hostile the justices seem to be solicitor general's half loaf solution that is part of why

prop 8 has to go down is because while california has civilian -- unions that don't differ other than the name from marriages. there are eight or nine states that are in that boat, well, if you have a rule saying that it's -- if all -- if you grant all the rights except the name, that's purely an mouse. there's no racial blarng blank giving some rights but don't want to go the whole hog and do marriage. i think again it should be contract-based and common-law based. i don't think that the civil union means so you to marriage as ultimate lay position for the constitutional law. >> i think the question also brings in something that is not enough of appreciated about the history of marriage law. far from being some timeless thing handed down by the ancestors. it's been in flux. common law marriage definition

changed. in general, it's never been -- there's nothing to go back to in that sense. there was a question in the front here. yes? >> hi. janice -- [inaudible] getting married is always exciting and fun? >> is it? i'm doing it in june. [applause] >> i understand the benefit use looking for with insurance and the health care and being able to visit another partner in the hospital and that type of stuff. but then when it doesn't work out, maybe the next day you wake up, are you guys going to have to go through the same divorce situation that we are? the are laws going work just as equally with that situation? >> well, there was a cover story in new york magazine on exactly that. welcome to gay divorce. and equality of unhappiness --

[laughter] and, you know, a lot of people favored gay marriage without having any tremendous good will for that reason. why let us have all the misery. and all seriousness, if one takes the sweet and one must take the bitter. and one cannot ask for commitment and somehow escape through a parachute. the consequences of failed commitment. and so, yes, this already happened the choice of law nerds lo love the fantastic complication that go on when a couple changed state between the marriage and finds the new state will not recognize marriage enough to divorce. . >> isn't there a court in texas that recognizes gay divorce but not marriage? >> i believe -- yes. i believe it's nongay marriage states -- it would make a wonderful discussion which is

more punitive. creating a separate divorce category you deserve that right. >> yes. more questions. the gentleman in the fourth row. >> yes. you. >> richard. thank you, hi. rick this is a question that relates back to an earlier question. i think at least to my ears, the most heeded moment in yesterday's arguments on perry was when justice scalia asked ted olson when if the exclusion of homosexuals become uninstitutional. dale thought that he stumbled a bit on that. i thought a. olson was extremely combative. second, he talk abouted evolving understanding how the

constitution applicability changes and grows when we, for example, increase our understanding of sexual orientation. does any of you think that scheel ya -- scalia landed a blow or being cranky or demonstrating he's not a originalist or a dominionist. what was your take? >> i blogged about it. it's on cato's website now. i think scalia was getting at one of the sort evolving standards of decency that the living constitution, you know, when was it -- do you really mean that the founders of the country or even the ratifiers of the 14th amendment had in mind gay marriage. he didn't answer it well. when we began to accept gayings in to the culture and these new understand of equality. i don't think that's right. it sort of plays in to the

opposite trap that scalia was laying. i think the answer is 1868 when the 14th amendment was ratified. not because i have proof or think that the ratifiers of that amendment had in mind gay marriage or any aspect of gay right. you look if you're an originalist. you have to do originalism at the right time. the right to equality under the law that are protected by the 14th amendment. we're talking about state violation in the prop 8 case. what does mean? you look at that. i think that either there's a right to gay marriage, once the government again gets in the business in 1868 with the 14th amendment or that isn't that right. there's the only two possible answers. i liming to -- link to other discussion of this. josh black month has been blogging about it as well. and my co-counsel on our brief. >> i think i thought that making

an interesting point. i thought ted had an good answer. whether it happened in 1868 or happened when we came to understand the sexual orientation was not something that people choose today. it's unconstitutional. that's the important answer there. the fact is there is a fundamental right that is being taken away from individuals, based on an arbitrary characteristic one they did not choose, that's what, i mean, by ash -- when those four things are present. it seems me the court needs to look carefully and argue whether the constitution is involved. i believe it is. whether it happened in 1868 or more recently when we came to understand the fact that it was present then too but we don't know. is less important than today in fact we know it's a violation. >> i think ted and therefore ken's answer are kind of more of a proper correct layman' response from a legal term. i want to hammer this point home

by using analogy. for example, segregation; right. brown v. board of education said separate but equal is unconstitutional. does that mean that 1954 is when segregation became unconstitutional or 18 u 96 and equal protection of the law extended in that way against the separation of the races in 1868. that's analogy i'm trying to draw. even time lawrence v. texas. it doesn't just mean that all of those years of antidd so my laws were -- i think when court interprets a particular have provision of the constitutional i think that is right or wrong they're interpreting what the

provision actually meant when it was ratified. >> we have run out of time. it's to have to be the last question. please join me in thanking our wonderful panel. [applause] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] join us at 7:p.m. eastern for live coverage of a conversation with the e zeke yule emanuel on the new book "brothers emanuel" memoir of a american family. he writes about the life and relationship with his brothers ram, the mayor of chicago, and a hollywood agent. then books about business leaders. including "american turn around" reinventing at&t and gm and the way we do business in u.s.a.

tonight on c spain we'll take a look at the entertain programming and political journalism. and talk about non-fiction outlet like tmz and daily show as well as scripted programs. at 8:00 p.m. eastern watch a discussion featuring the editor of tmz. cnn abc news anchorrer ron brown. your comment as joined by american university professor and patrick gavin, staff writer for "politico." here's a brief look at our program. >> a lot of people were in congress were in the senate they're very interesting people. and if you can get to that and you peel back a couple of the layers, you may find out there's something interesting. they're not movie stars, i don't

know but seeing one of your representatives playing basketball and finding out that you have a great jump shot and that he does this every tuesday night might be interesting to some people. >> doing issue of tmz in disguise. do you have an agenda? >> like i said, we're not going delve deeper in to whether, you know, sometimes we do talk about especially on "tmz live" we'll talk about some of politics. but more like i said, we're trying to make the people the politicians permit. learn something about the personality, you might be interested in them. maybe -- next time you hear on cnn or fox news channel you hear someone say, marco rubio -- wait a second. marco rubio. that's the guy i saw on "tmz live" talking about how he's totally in to hip-hop. and he talked for five minutes about why lil' wayne is not the

new too tupac. we had him on and we did that. we the conversation with him. i said there's a part of me that felt badly that we didn't delve deeper to his politics and what he's voting on. that wasn't the conversation. and ultimately it was probably more interesting. i really wanted to hammer him about reaching for water in the middle of his state of the union, but, you know, we actually had a fun conversation with the guy. i thought, okay maybe people will be interested in what marco rubio's politics. we're opening it up and peeling it back. i'm handing it back to people who are delving deeper to the politics. i think there's a huge appetite for that by doing what we do we can create more of an appetite for people to learn about politics. right now i think a lot of people are just turned off by politicians all together and they don't want to hear

anything. why not make them more interesting and maybe people will pay attention to what they're screwing up in d.c. [chanting] >> mr. speaker, we put them down as undecided. [laughter] [applause] >> mr. chairman, as i listen to those comments, it struck me with a wonderful thing free speech is. that was the hearing where donald rumsfeld was making the justification for attacking iraq. and what you didn't hear in the clip were questions we got a chance to ask him, which is how much money is hall burten going make from the war? how many u.s. soldiers will be killed in the war? how many iraqi civilians will die from the adventure? i would like the questions

answered now by somebody like donald rumsfeld. >> more with code pink cofounder sunday night at 8:00 on q & a. tuesday in the national press club in washington, d.c., hosted a discussion with black entertainment television founder robert johnson. in the remarks, he focused on the economic challenges and wealth disparity facing the african-american community. he analyzed the findings of a recent poll he commissioned which gauges african-american view on politics, economy, and social issues. it's about an hour. >> good afternoon, welcome to the national press club. my name is angela, i'm a reporter for "bloomberg news." i'm the 106th president of the major press club. we are -- thank you. we are the world's leading professional organization for journalists, committed to our

profession's future through programming with the event such as this. while fostering a free press worldwide. for more information about the national press club, visit our website at www.press.org. to donate to programs offered to the public, through the national press club journalism instituted. we note that members of the general public are not attending. it's not lack of journalist objectivity. i would like to welcome the c c-span and public luncheon. you follow the action today on twitter using the hashtag npc lunch. after our guest speech concludes we'll have a question answer session. i'll ask the questions. now it's time to introduce the head table guest. i would like to have each of you stand up. the host of sex, politics and

religion hour envoys of russia radio. margaret mcken city, the information officer. eddie braun, the chairman, ceo and founder of browne capital management. nicky yai and nay columnist. april ryan white house correspondent for american urban radio next. tracey, the senior vice president for corporate communication and public affairs for the rlj company. skipping over the podium. reporter for "usa today," a former president national press club, and the speaker's committee chair this year. skipping over the speaker for a moment. senior vice president with the msl group and the member who organized the event. thank you. ty browne, a guest of the speaker. jeff deputy news editor and a

member of the national press club board of governors. the news director for wpfw florida and john doyle ceo of the principle networking. [applause] [applause] our guests today became the first black billionaire in the united states, the first african-american to list a company on the new york stock exchange, and the first black majority owner of a professional sports team. robert johnson founded black entertainment television which he sold to viacom in 2001 for $3 billion. he has made the fortunate targeting a black urban audience first at b et the first television networking to provide entertainment, news, sports, and public affairs programming for african-american audience.

after the debut they went pub flick 1991 with b et channel now reaching about 90 percent of all black house hold with cable. he sold it viacom after taking private seven years after the ipo. it's now part of the viacom empire which includes comedy central, knick load began, spike and more. he shook off crit iblgs over the years directing of spike complaining that b et programming included too much and violation pointing out it stands for entertainment. mr. johnson is the former majority owner of the expansion nba franchise the charlotte bobcats. he sold the stake to michael jordan three years ago. he's raising chairman as rlj companies and investing in businesses in and out of media entertainment. rlj's portfolio is too long to list it includes real estate, private equity, car.pro, and the

video industry. to create an online distributer of digital video content. they launched the website to match minority job seekers with employers and minority business owners with applicants. mr. johnson said a cheap reason he created the site was to reduce the disparty in unemployment for minority americans. mr. johnson, a father of two, is known for the fifteen-hour workdays and six-day workweek. he's a native of mississippi and grew up along with the nine siblings in illinois. his early work included delivering newspapers, but he since said it was something that required him to get too early to do. after college, at the university of illinois, and grad school at princeton university, he found his way to washington and a sires of jobs including a

lobbiest what was then called national cable television association. that's what sparked the interest in creaght his -- creating his own cable networking. he's here today to announce the findings on the poll. zogby an lettics surveyed 1,000 african-american adults online and telephone to gauge on politics, economy. help me welcome him. [applause] [applause] >> thank you, angela. good afternoon, everybody. i'm delighted to be here. i was sitting here talking to donna and he said you know arrive when your face is on a cookie. [laughter] and april told me she's going tweet it. she already did.

[laughter] i also like to recognize allison fitzgerald, the chairman of the speaker's committee and nari wright, the speaker who put the speaking event together for me. thank you. so again, angela, thank you for the kind introduction. thank you members of the press club and invited guests for being here this afternoon. to hear the result of a national poll that i commissioned last month. the poll was conducted by zogby an lettics. as many of you know john zogby has conducted an produced polls for over thirty years. and is well respected for the record of accuracy, credibility, and reliability. the poll was conducted bay telephone and online survey with the random sample of 1,002 african-american adults across the country to gauge the opinion on current social, economic,

issues directly arveghting the african-american community. as most of you know, i have always been vocal about economic opportunity for african-americans. as a founder of b et, and now the rlj company which is angela, pointed out include investment in rlj lodging trust, publicly traded 2.5 billion hotel with over 147 hotels and 20,000 rooms across the country. i serve as checktive chairman. rlj the ladies and gentlemennest minority -- largest minority owned automobile company in the country with a ton of sales. the private equity firm and partnership with the carlisle group, and rlj entertainment, the largest independent distributer of entertainment content which is traded on the nasdaq. i'm a serial entrepreneur. i get a vision about somebody

that should be done, usually in an african-american underrepresented an try to my best to create a business solution to help address the social and economic problems. for example, as angela pointed out, a year ago the companies -- launched an online job and business site specifically designed to introduce minority individuals and minority-owned businesses to large u.s. companies to encourage employment and business opportunities. the businesses i have started in addition to creating a value for my investors and shareholders have the important goal of empowering african-americans who have the ability to create value and wealth for themselves and ultimately this nation. make no mistake, there are millions of african-american men and women who have the talent,

the enagree knewty, and the work ethic to fulfill these goals. i think you would also agree with me that this nation has created the greatest society for individual economic opportunity and achievement that mankind has ever seen. but despite that fact, there is the troubling question that has to be asked. and that is, to what extent do african-americans fully participate in this e equation? my primary concern is why. after enacting and enforcing needed and civil equal rights law, spending more money on education for african-american students at all levels than any other time in the history of this nation and having twice elected an african-american president, black american families are still experiencing a growing disparity in

employment, access to capital, wealth accumulation, and as a direct consequence, stagnation in economic opportunity and quality of life. in an attempt answer these questions, i commissioned the poll with the following political and economic developments in mind: number one, for black americans, this country has experienced the most historical, political event in my opinion, at least, since the enactment of the emancipation proclamation. that. event, of course, the election and re-election of the first african-american president, barack obama. because of this, this mown monumental occurrence for all more thans but particularly african-american i want to find out how african-american feel about obama's presidency and equally important, if they feel

their lives are better off having lived under the first four years of obama and the perspective of an obama administration for the next four years. number two, this nation is engaged in a major debate about the role of government and providing for the economic well being of working class and middle class americans. without question, most african-american families fall within that category. the debate raises a question of how much entitlement security the government should make available to these citizen and who should bear the cost of such transfer of payments. the issue being raised whether this country's economic future is at risk because of the rising cost of entitlement and the debt and deficit that follows. this dispute no matter how it is resolved will districtly impact

african-american families more so than any other population. this country has recently experienced a worse economic downturn since the great depression. we have seen a decline in economic growth and opportunity for all americans but african-americans have been the hardest hit. this has been true in the past, and it is true today as the most recent economic data clearly drives home that fact. here are the facts; african-americans have double the rate of unemployment as white americans, the national average is 7.7% and african-american employment is 13.8%. to be honest, it's probably greater than that when you count the number of african-americans who have simply given up on finding an employment. sadly this is not a new fact. according to u.s. bureau of labor statistics,

african-american unemployment has been doubled that way for over fifty years. the income gap of white americans is ten times that of black americans. the net worth of the median white household is $1 18,000. and that of the -- the wealth gap between black americans and white americans over the past twenty years has increased from $20,000 to $90,000 according to the pugh research center. again, according to the pugh research center, nearly half of african-americans born to middle class families in the '60s will never attain the wealth of their parents. number three, african-americans were once the largest ethnic

minority group and the dominant minority political voice in this country dating back to the civil rights movement. african-americans are now confronted with the growing influence of the hispanic population which is today the largest minority population group. i wanted to gauge african-american sentiment about the political and economic changes that could result from hispanic-americans being the largest minority. the demographic fact could lead to hispanic potentially exercising greater political influence within the country on key issues of importance to african-americans namely competition for jobs, and minority business opportunities. and perhaps even hispanic become the dominant ethnic voice on cultural and social issues. number four, i also wanted to find out how african-americans feel about their political

leaders. in organizations that represent their interests as well as the assess the attitude about key and social cultural issues of the moment. for example, immigration reform, marriage equality, the gun and assault weapons ban and the 2016 presidential election. number five, i didn't know of any other organizations that recently conducted a poll targeted to african-american with the combination of social, economic, and political question. so as an entrepreneur i decided do to scare do it. i wanted to create a discussion within the black community and a broader community to bring to the forefront of public debate key issues of primary concern to african-americans. i'm pleased to say that i'm intrigued by the result of the poll and i believe better informed. i hope you will be also. now, despite all of the

political and economic reality confronting black america, which i outlined would truly intrigued me about the poll is that the poll result according it a black american firmly believing their lives are a glass half filled rather than a glass half empty. so what does the poll which i have chosen to entitle "black opinion in the age of obama" reveal? they have an immense sense of pride in barack obama of the united. he is unequivocally liked. he receives a 91% fairvelt dr favorability rating. 72% believe that president obama's election has helped them, 4% believe the election has hurt them. consistent with the data that shows that african-american beliefs that president obama's election has helped them, a

majority of those polls within 62% are optimistic about employment in the next four years. 30% of responded say they are doing better off financially than they were four years ago. about half say at least during doing the same. and 25% say that african-american in general are doing better while 44% say they're doing about the same. and 21% say they are worse off. on race relations, tied to the feeling that barack obama's president sei has been positive for african-americans. 53% of frrms say that white african-american relations will improve. while only 23% are pessimistic. when asked why they believe black unemployment rate was doubled that have white. responses include, failure of the education system for african-americans, 50%.

lack of corporate commitment to hiring minorities and african-americans 48%. lack of good government policy 25%. as to whether they felt they were overlooked or discounted as a for the race. 47% said yes and 389% said no. when asked why the wealth gap increased by $70 ,000 over the last twenty years nearly half responded said that both lack of job and access to capital are the blame for the wealth gap between black and white americans. since i agree that unemployment and access to capital are the most pressing issues for african-americans, i also asked the poll about something i promoting for the last few years, what i called the rlj rule. two years ago at the press club i spoke about the rule adapted

from the national football league nfl rudie rule. in 2003, the nfl established a rule which mandated subject to a league fine that the 32 team owners must give fair interview to qualified minority candidates whenever a head coaching or general manager position became available before making a new hire. the rlj rule, unlike the nfl rule is proposed as a voluntary rule and designed to encourage companies to establish best practice policies to identify and interview at least two african-americans at the manager level before filling a position, and to interview qualified black businesses prior to awarding a small business procurement contract. we include the description of the rlj rule in the poll and found that 75% of those polled

were either very or somewhat supportive. 47% responded saying we helped african-americans chances to be hiring or become a minority supplier. and 53% said would like to see the rlj rule enacted to law. with these critical issues facing the african-american community, the poll also asked who was the person organization that would be the voice for african-americans to ensure that their voice was heard at the national level? the leading civil raj in economic organization scored very well. the ncaa severed an 83% favorable rating. the national urban league received a favorable rating and the congressional black caucus received 68% rating. when asked for the name of individuals who best represent their interests in overwhelming 40% said no one speaks for

them. a segment of the poll focused on issues relate to the emergence of the hispanic population, race relation, gun, gay rights and 2016 presidential election. on hispanics, african-americans 63% of african-americans favor a path to full citizenship within ten years for his hispanic who are here illegally. 16% say they should never achieve full citizenship. interestingly enough, 51% of african-americans believe that hispanics will achieve greater economic growth than african-americans over the next five years. 39% of 18-29 share the feeling and 60% of those 50 years or older. some of the reasons for this include hispanics-face less

racism than african-american. hispanic lifestyle and work ethnic. hispanics given more opportunity, education is better. 67% of african-americans favor a ban on assault weapons. while 20% oppose such a ban. this includes a majority of all age groups. expressing a deep concern about reaction to gun crime in the black community, 75% of african-americans believe that the nation pays less attention to black on black gun crime than on gun crime against whites. on gay rights, african-americans evenly split on the issue of same-sex marriage. 42% feel that marriage is exclusively defined as between a

man and a woman. while 40% would support gay marriage having the same rights as heterosexual couples. we also ask the question about minister os pose homosexuality and gay marriage. the results were evenly split. one in three 34% support the minister. one in three or approximately 31% said member steers are wrong and they have no opinion. on the 2016 presidential races, we asked the question if the democratic primary for president were held today, for whom would you vote? who should president obama endorse to succeed him as the next president of the united states? out of six potential democratic candidates, nearly half of the respondent end 46% say they would support hillary clinton for president of united states if the democratic primary were

held today. about one in five would support vice president biden. in conclusion, the zogby poll clearly demonstrates for african-americans having an african-american president elected to two terms has created a tremendous sense and feeling of unparalleled political pride. because of the feeling, and despite all of the economic challenges before us, i believe that african-americans are uniquely hopeful about their future. interestingly enough as well, this emotion and belief was expressed by president obama during his recent speech to the people of israel. speaking about the african-american experience, the president said, to african-americans the story of the exodus told a powerful tale

about emerging from the grip of bondage to reach for liberty and human dignity. tale carried from slavery through the civil rights movement. for generations this promise helped people weather poverty and persecution while holding on to the hope that a better day was on the horizon. i completely agree with the president; however, my concern and maybe even fear is that if this faith-like hope or promise of a better day on the horizon is not rewarded, with real and measurable economic change during and after the obama presidency the failure to do so and regetble for for and

regetble for the nation result in a major shift from hope to despair for millions of african-americans who today look at this nation in the age of obama and say our glass is half filled. ..

and the need for african-americans to share in the creation of the wealth of this nation. there was an perplexed as to why we always have this gap, this disparity. i figure with some of the changes, the occurrence rushing towards us and ranging from the president-elect, the hispanic population, debate deficit and budget entitlement and everyone else asserting their rights. somebody needs to start talking about it. i dedicate this person, tracy and i hope people will start talking about it. at the end of the day, my goal was to provide discussion with the hope somehow that will steer us in the right direction if the people in the country. >> of the results you told us about, what parts from a

surprising? for their particular per se should be cause for alarm in your opinion? >> there weren't any real surprises. the issue of gay writes more conservative so i wasn't surprised. i was surprised by the one that african-americans believe hispanics fell out a span economically over the next five years. i don't expect to see that. i was gratified on the fact that they were big supporters of immigration reform. we had another question we didn't put in the polls. get african-americans believe they gay writes for the same unsurprisingly she give you they gay can make the argument they are tantamount to african-americans, equal and civil rights.

the whole mix that is most compelling is just the undoubtable fees that african-americans are the people have and there's a better life things would get better than that to me is a wonderful thing to think about. my concern is that what point does a shift or if it ever shows and if it does shift, what does that mean? >> can you tell us about the nuts and bolts? when was it done, what was the margin of error and is very website we can see the full results? >> the poll will be available -- where? on the website. it was done by zogby. we hope to release in february, but we lost that and didn't get it done in time.

the zogby has great credibility for the olympics, so with a margin of error, it truly represents the feeling of 32 million or 33 million african-americans. so we're comfortable we got it right in terms of their opinion at all the data will be available for anybody who wants to look at it. we did it online because we recognize the shift in online access and online news. peter telephonic scum you tend to get mulder's? online you get a younger skew, so we came up with a measurement that allowed us to wait one with the other. which i represent an example of how to reach people. i >> what was your take on the respondents, 40s% of them say no one speaks for them? >> the crowd will understand

that's paired african-americans like to be their own boss. they don't want anyone to tell them what to think or what to do. and of course proximity briefs contempt. a lot of times we get associated in them at the time up close and their flaws and we simulate them today, don't like them tomorrow. we had a list of 10 or 12 names of what i call usual suspects. nobody jumped up high enough for us to save this person, this man, and this woman is a leader. the 40% was significantly higher than anybody who got designation as quote, they speak for me. >> a couple more nuts and bolts

questions via diverse as the economic economic and educational demographics and another asked about the geographic distribution around the country. >> on the education come you have to look at the internals and not to pass on that and if that were not yourself. on the demographics, we made sure this represented the entire united states. the nature rickett east coast, west coast, north, south. obviously that's probably 75, 65% of african-americans east of the mississippi has the southeast coast kind of skew, less than alaska, but that sort of that. i >> you said you want to start discussion. bill cosby is a fair amount of criticism when he did that. how are you going about their different like him or do not mind having criticism if that's what comes?

>> antistatic criticism. -- i am used to having criticism. i am not looking for a key say she's that kind of thing. i'll tell you when i wrote the speech i could have started with concern and say my concern is a lighter version of fear. you go from concern to deep concern to fear. i am literally troubled by the fact if you go to the pew research center and ask for data on african-americans and decline in opportunity, it would really scare you. when you think of the amount of savings that people don't have a plan to retire, when you think about the medical expenses that confront a family from everything from alzheimer's to other kinds of medical decisions come a think about potential cut

in the social safety net in a think about the fact that jobs face not only competition in the united states, but globally, you have to ask yourself the question, how are african-americans going to make that transition with all these headwinds against us? if somebody doesn't look us on this need to put african-americans and other minorities, hispanics as well to work in this country because you can do a lot of things in china, vietnam, and a lot of things in brazil in sub-saharan africa and you can do it cheaper. at some point regard to address the problem arose we are going to be like the pew research side, in a position where children born today will not attain the wealth of their parents. that creates an effective a continual downgrade of economic well-being and the literally

troubles me we will be happy for 50 years with 50% unemployment. this country would never tolerate wide unemployment up 14% to 15%. no one would ever stay in office in this nation. we have a double unemployment for over 50 years and to me that's what i'm looking for is for somebody to say why has this happened for 50 years when all the things that we've done and went down in opinion the dignity and hope. but that doesn't change, somebody will have to pay 34 million african-americans will not leave this country. millions of african-americans don't have jobs. somebodies cannot pay for them. somebody has to take care of them. the money is going to come from somebody and whoever is paying

for his going to be upset about it. they're looking for somebody to blame. we can't be competitive if we don't utter a peep on the field to work. african-americans can be consumers if they don't have jobs. we don't have savings. we don't have investment and part of that is because we don't have capital. so why folks can buy a home. it's even more difficult. there's talk about taking nonproduction away as part of a chance to balance the budget. so while these things as i said, however the solution comes out, it's going to impact in spirit if they borrow more debt, interest rates go up. so we really need to focus on our well-being in a unique way of and come up with solutions that are unique to us because every other interest group in this nation is doing not.

we are way behind the curve in being vocal about her interest group compared to sub for americans. you see the resurgence of the democratic caucus and according going on by republicans and democrats. the swing states are states where hispanic americans are dominant. so if you want to get those votes inherit a party, you're not going to court the black folks living in trenton. you don't quit their hispanics living in nevada, hispanics in florida, hispanics and other states, colorado. they deserve their day in the sun and they should go for it. but we must protect our interest in a very out to buy to make sure their voices are not lost as described by interest groups with their particular voice.

the >> without a capital about the black families, how should the black american consumer response? in the self-determination or larger policy issue? >> i think it's a larger national policy issue. i remember back in the day they would leave consumer boycott and go in and take on the company until black folks don't buy this stuff because they don't do business with minority business and so forth in one or two guys would get a contract and it would be over. it didn't solve a problem. what you've got to do is bookmark capital in the hands of african american entrepreneurs and businesses. some of these solutions -- and i hesitate to say, that some of the solutions have to have a pivot towards race solutions. affirmative action at the

college level is under assault. that raises a question if it's there. it's already an assault on minority procurement and everything else for sandra day o'connor ruled in the case thursday before you cannot than a kind of sad set-aside program for a minority company ticketed benefit of a contract over away contractor, there must be a compelling national interest. i think there's a compelling national interest and there's a 90% while the gap and a 10% income gap come when there's a decline in an come to this degree, this somehow you've got to come up with specific kinds of things. that's why i brought up the rlj law. justice adopted is good business practice and is the bully pulpit to ask companies to do it. if the company gets billions of dollars, what's wrong with saying to give money for building this or that.

what's wrong with companies embracing the? nobody's asking anyone to force anyone. just give them a chance. so this has got to be you can't just say let's boycott company i can make them turn around. that's not going to work and it doesn't solve a problem for everybody. we just got to figure out a way. i talked to the chairman of the house ways and means committee a year or so back about how much money sitting on the sideline for an angst and everything in companies that want to bring back because it's heavily taxed. i propose to go to the companies and say look, you can capital back into the country and what we'd like you to do is set up multi-billion-dollar fund to put money behind minority

entrepreneurs ambleside people to run the money and so forth. we would either eliminate your tax to reduce your tax dramatically because if they take their money, bring it back, taxes cut in half, then take money to smart ashbourne errs in this room and make money that way as well. they're just taking a bet on a different set of people. right now you've got trillions of dollars sitting in foreign bank and foreign companies a treasury because they don't want to bring it back to the united states. they say how do you do that? you can't target minorities or use tax policy to aid one group or another group and this is something special for african-americans. but we have been special ever since we've been here. it started with the declaration of independence that monopoly to

a war and civil rights and at some point you've got to go back to special. if you come up with ways to make it palatable to people because it's based on an economic model, you've got to do it. otherwise in my opinion, not very much will change. there's nothing on the rise that i see that's changing the economic opportunity growth for african-americans in this country. 62% believe they will get jobs in the next four years. to realize that the employment rate would have to drop two to employ 60% of african-american. dropped two and then we'd be up for. there's no way this country in the next two to three years can get 22% unemployment. to me that's the issue has to

be. we have to engage the sandra day o'connor argued that that will never have these issues because everybody will happy and nobody will be treated differently. i see it going the other way. >> should african-americans to the democratic party is the interest are being ignored? do you think african-americans can give more attention elsewhere and last week we had prayer with your standing now that he wanted to get more votes from all minority communities. [inaudible] [laughter] >> let me say this. here's the thing. it's a little bit too late for that gambit.

you can't do it because the old saying used to be republicans ignore us and democrats take us for granted. that's pretty much locked in stone. you're not going to get much because peer reason knuckle politics. you may did in the primary to get there, together let it, but in the general election from the electoral college is controlled by the swing states and that's not where we are. we don't have the leverage to do that. this is an idea. i said u.k. should think like the israeli knesset and shift back and forth from party to party. but that could change some things. have some big issue came up,

most of them in safe districts i believe. so if they said they were going to go cut a deal with the honor and in the next till it the enamel coated black folks and explain it so we can always come back concerning this win that way. you might be out of shake up things a little bit that way, but it would have to be a parliamentarian system is supposed to locked in a party. it would be really hard to motivate the people of the country and saved by the democratic party. i mean, where would you go? the republican party as much as they can't do it, of course you've got 36 million hispanics growing at a faster rate than the whole country as a whole. what's your leverage?

you've got to push within your own community to build your own sense of who you are and make everything you do at the local, national and every other level focus on their issues. i think this gay community has done a terrific job in representing their interests and focus everybody and never let anybody get away from the notion that they deserve and want to be treated equally in every aspect and it's working. if anything, we should borrow a page from what they're doing. and they vote on core issues related to their best interest. we need to adopt some of that strategy. other than that, i don't see on a jump out of one party to another party. >> what is your comment about

the obama administration and newfound appeal to conservative quarters as a potential spoiler in the next presidential election? >> i think it's a flavor of the month kind of thing. he's a really brilliant surgeon and is obviously entitled to his own opinion, but i don't think he has any interest at all and trying to project himself as a national spokesperson. i think this thing is going to go around for a while. this is sort of a man.they were if anybody says something may happen to be black, that's a new story. i'm not trying to make a new story. so i think you fell in to that and bites dog thing and that's

what happens. a year from now, two years from now i'll be doing what he does and nobody will be thinking of him running for president. he's a great guy who has an opinion. >> speaking of news coming you are here speaking at the national press club in a room filled with journalists. a decline in african-americans in the industry as well as positions in newsrooms. what do you say is a notch printer that should be done so black american journalists do not go the way of the quarter? >> that's a good analogy. [laughter] you know, it's problems are sorted in industries as she can.

is changing in terms or reclining less heavy reporting, less costly reporting coming you know, more technology driven, more media driven. and so, newspapers are facing that challenge. when companies see themselves facing a decline in revenue or decline in market share, they start cutting and they start cutting where they can to maximize their business and unfortunately if you're not an essential or lower on the totem pole, go be the first fired and is playing on corporations as well. with the corollary to that is i seen a rise in black bloggers in using the internet as a way to

get your voice heard and maybe build a model and i would encourage those of you who have the skills of journalists in the business mind to do, i would urge you to seek an opportunity to be a part of one of their growing economy emerging new sites or other social networks i can build a business around that. keep in mind, 1.3 is the largest companies in the country were black magazines targeted only to black people. so it's not impossible to create a business model going after the 12 to 13 african-american households who spent a lot of money and are still major cultural drivers in this country. so i wouldn't fret too much about the decline of a business

that she can't reverse. i tried to take it off the ship at the right time and focus on what you can do on your round. >> the questioner asks, with the election of the hispanic president in 2016 represent a setback for african-americans? why or why not? be much it would depend on who it is. they think their natural instinct is more than hispanic. they might say, do you think we have a voice? can we get to to and things like that? coming after obama, an election of anybody is going to be a setback for african-americans. you're never going to see this high of a return. and so, you've got to add that to the equation.

the thing i'm most concerned about, which you can do some thing i wanted to create is a discussion point. i don't know when the last time there's been a major combat between the dominant black organizations and the dominant hispanic organizations. if you really think about it, we have to be meeting like hispanics every day to figure out what were talking about. we are staying away from each other and not embracing each other. i've been in business 30 years. i defy anybody to name me the last time an african-american business in hispanic business merge together to go and for a contract. i don't know any business that i know us. i know a lot of minority businesses. the other thing is i don't know how much social interaction takes place between blacks and

hispanics. part of it is geography. some of it may be language. part of the cultural, some of that income because incomes are below ours on a national basis. but that's changing. you look around and think when i came to washington, i walk into a part in my kentucky 60% of the guys, or 8% way. you walk into a park and not in d.c. today, you know come alive for his cut at washington, it was an african-american guy. right now these things change. the daughter of my hispanic housekeeper came from el salvador and finally got her citizenship. she is or can at an i.t. going on her doctorate program.

so the point i'm trying to make is this is a resurgent population with circle of life to build strong families and build wealth themselves. they're not going to sit back and say will take into account african-americans, but what they've got to doing what we've got to do is figure out where we have common cause. again, the gay community needed a common cause that what they went through, we went through. we say which are facing, we experience doing. we need to get together. the congressional black caucus and hispanic caucus ought to meet every week to see what programs they can implement. for now and 20 years that the

voting bloc. the >> you said that you might take rlj companies for the period you have any plans to do so? would be the impetus that would make you do that? >> rlj is a holding company. >> were almost out of time. a couple housekeeping matters. i'd first like to remind you of upcoming luncheon speakers. april 9 we have dr. john as for the come ceo of the mayo clinic will discuss issues facing the health care industry. april 12 cogburn's will discuss his new documentary coming to central park five and april 17 we have the direct heir of the office of national drug control policy. second victory center gets to the traditional the traditional

nassau press club coffee mud. [applause] one last question. someone in the audience asks, who is most likely to be the next black media mogul? >> the answer is i do not know. thank you very much. i appreciate it. [applause] >> thank you offer coming today. i'd like to thank the national press club staff concluded that journalism is to do for work i see today's event. finally come a reminder to find more information about the national press club, including becoming a member on her website at www.press.org. if you like a copy of today's program, you can find that there is well.

thank you. we are returned. [applause] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]

>> the single worst day ever had on television, the asker, robert blake is arrested in the san fernando valley for popping his wife. that's about what the story is worth, what i just gave you. the actor, robert blake, who has done what good performing any tv series is arrested for killing his wife. we spent four hours on it. not a figurative four hours, a literal four hours.

we were asking extra correspondents who would vote for no reason that i could figure out than to keep this going, how do you think this will impact his career? he had no career. [laughter] it was an upside. >> today you had to cover paris hilton getting arrested. >> i think i was gone by that. i don't remember. it's four hours, i go home at 2:30 in the morning and my wife who is a reporter that could be half asleep and says, why? [laughter] honest to god i don't need this right now. there are 15,000 e-mails. i looked through a few hundred.

not one, not one cdma company promised he would do serious news. no one said you did enough robert blake. >> we talk about changes this morning i'm washing to journal. >> host: on your screen is susan apold, a member of the board of the american association of nurse for visionaries. ms. apold, with a nurse practitioner? casco intersect kushner is a registered nurse who is at the trading beyond a baccalaureate degree in nursing. nurse practitioners can diagnose, treat and prescribe patience much lays diagnosis and

treatment. we also bring a nursing model to patient care situation. >> host: what does that mean? >> guest: we are nurses her spirit we are taught to take care of the whole patient. we bring in socioeconomic background, family background, perceptions of illness, their knowledge level about health and illness and eisner struck kushner's or bring an extra level of care. we have advanced education and training that allows us to die as treatment prescribed for a patient. >> how much schooling goes into being a nurse practitioner? >> most have a bachelors degree in nursing, then we also must have a masters degree in nursing. there's a growing tanned for her nurse practitioners to have a

doctorate. >> guest: i have a phd. >> host: and that's different? >> guest: at the different than a doctorate in nursing disagree. a phd is an academic research degree that's been around a very long time. the doctorate of nursing practice degree individualist prepared differently and that is a practice practiced doctorate. those folks will have additional clinical education and clinical practice experience. post dominators or schooling have you had? >> guest: a lot of years. i have a bachelor science, masters degree, masters certificate because my education was a clinical nurse specialist. a postmaster certificate and a phd. with that of the earth, eight to 10. >> host: susan apold, why not get your medical degree?

>> guest: because i wanted to be a nurse because nursing is different from anything. we are different and distinct disciplines. we have approach to patient care. we bring something incredibly value of all to the situation. medicine has a wonderful model that has served this nation well. as he is a wonderful prevent and manage model. it's a framework. it's a paradigm, an approach to taking care of patients. a jury that they continue enjoy. >> host: had a nurse practitioners differ from physicians assistants? >> guest: the differences in lease and true. let's talk about entry-level registered nurses.

we practice on their own authority. we have an independent license. that means we are we alone are responsible for practices. we are responsible for the quality, the standards of care and the ethics. don't supervises us except other nurses. physicians assistants operate under the license or direct supervision. many things we do are similar. assessments, prescribing, but the licensure is different that they have a different approach to patient care. it is for knowing that what the medical model. >> host: susan apold, do you work for yourself and you were quick to this?

>> guest: i work with a physician. i work in a private practice work of the same office as a physician. >> host: are you required by new york law to work with a physician? >> guest: i required to have something called the collaborative practice agreement. this means in order for me to practice emissary document signed by a physician. that document requires identify practice protocol and the physician who will service my collaborating physician and the only oversight is a retrospective chart review. i have required four times a year to identify a set of my chart, take them to a physician, said down into a review.

she looks at my charts, says okay, we could've done this done this differently. this is great and not three. that's the essence of the practice agreement in new york. >> host: can you make rounds to keeshanmedications, order task? >> guest: yes to all those things. that is not nationwide and that is why other issues practitioners are facing because there's 50 states and 50 sets of laws and regulations governing this. it's a profound barrier to patient care and profound for patients to access the care than the practitioners provide. >> host: were going to put the numbers on the screen. were talking about nurse practitioner role in the health care world in america we set aside or fourth line for nurse practitioners, health care

workers. 585-3883 is the number. 202 is the area code. how many states are like new york in his new york one of the leaders and allowing practitioners freedom? >> guest: they are states that are better. 16 states and the district of columbia that allow nurse practitioners to practice without regulatory oversight by another profession, specifically physicians. new york is not as restrictive as some who require direct supervision controlling what is practitioners can surprise, how they can go about doing that. so in new york state we continue to seek removal of the requirement for the statutory requirement for collaboration. >> host: were going to put the list up on the screen.

when you look at the 16 states, is there anything in common with the states? i apologize, we don't have the list. i've got it here and i'm going to read it quickly. alaska, arizona, d.c., iowa, maine, maryland, montana, new hampshire, north dakota, oregon, rhode island, utah, what do these have in common? >> guest: that's a great question. they are largely rural and i think they have great need. many of the state started i would nurse practitioners were first identified, they started out as states that did not require physician oversight. that might also be some they may have in common. >> host: susan apold, how often do you talk to your collaborating physicians?

[laughter] to >> guest: all the time. we are in an office together. >> host: every patient you see, you talk to him/her? >> guest: , no that wouldn't even be possible. sometimes he's not there in the office. i practiced away every health care professional practices. i see consultation when i need to seek consultation. it's important to note that on the ground in office is, we are consulting with one another all the time. collaborating physicians will come to me and say what about this, what is this immunization schedule? is very much a collaborative process. we don't need statute to tell us to do that. i did need statute to tell me to do that before i became a nurse practitioner when a function as a registered nurse in a

traditional hospital setting. as did everybody else on that team. >> host: what's the goal of the american association of nurse practitioners and it comes to legislation? desk at the american legislation is seeking to provide quality affordable care to all patients in the country who need it for 32 million more individuals entering the health house carref you will. would probably have a crisis right now in terms of workforce issues. when legislative barriers prevent nurse practitioners or any member, when legislative barriers prevent me or any one of my colleagues from functioning at the top of my life has come to you to the full scope of practice, if the patients who don't get the care they need. the american association of nurse practitioners really

translates into seeking to remove barriers come to patient access. >> host: our guest, susan apold, topic, nurse practitioners role in the health care world. democrat, deborah good morning. >> caller: good morning. thank you for c-span. i am a cancer patient. i'm on medicaid. i go on the hospital quite frequently. i is surgery last week and being a pain patient after surgery, my pain is very poorly treated and the nurses come as some of them acted like he was coming out of their paycheck. they is sometimes an hourly but the paint job. they weren't empathetic to pain and i'd like to know what nurse practitioners if they're going to take over for supper trees, if he'll get educated about pain because people shouldn't be in pain, especially as much

decided. i >> host: susan apold >> guest: i'm so sorry to hear about your experience. i hope you'll feel better better and do well. all nurses are trained in pain management. nurse practitioners are trained in pain management. we have no -- hopefully her experiences will be much better as you encounter health care professionals, nurses and nurse practitioners specifically who are able to provide the level of compassion, care and concern you need and you can rest assured the knowledge we have qualifies us to provide pain management. >> host: can nurse the fissures run emergency care clinics? >> guest: yes, they can run emergency care clinics. >> host: do they? >> guest: i don't know any places where they do. there are many throughout the

country and specifically emergency rooms. what do you have mind? >> host: urgent care. >> guest: can i just? today yes. the clinics affiliated with pharmacies around a nurse practitioners. >> host: craig, will have a cut arkansas come a republican line. >> caller: yes, good morning. i would like to stay nurses do a great job and they need more of them. i think they should have been involved more in this health care law because they are very good at what they do and there is a shortage cutting back to cover the cost. i think they deserve more than what they get and they need a lot more of them.

their input is probably better. i have crohn's disease. there is no cure for it and when you're in the air, it's a hard time. when you've got a helping hand they are, when the doctor is not there, they've got to make the decision right there. they are therefore we need warrants a. >> host: greg, have you ever worked directly with a nurse practitioner who has prescribed medication for you, contrary procedure where you've only seen a nurse practitioner and not a doctor? >> guest: yes, i just had a surgery a few months ago and my lungs collapsed and i had four or five nurses around the nai it

real fast and that the problem fixed up and got me to where i can read again. they are just wonderful people. the reason is because they are cutting back on nurses. more patients in less nurses. they need more nurses and health care is a serious situation. >> host: we got the point. thanks for calling in. susan apold >> guest: thank you for the rising endorsement of the nursing care. there are 155,000 nurse practitioners delivering terror verdana prediction is we'll need more nurse practitioners and more registered nurses, so your point is well taken and right on. >> host: susan apold, 379 have

come in and they are similar in their nature. the bottom line is they nurses a nurse and a doctor is a doctor. wild and wonderful tweets they are a great addition to medical care so long as they stay within their sphere of competence. some don't. dennis is next we'll have cleaners prescribing medications while the doctors count their money. >> guest: okay. all health care professionals who hold licenses are required by law to practice within their scope of practice. that is not new. we've been doing that since there've been laws defining us apart this. nurses, physicians, nurse practitioners are legally obligated to function within our scope of this. that means one of the first thing we learn is that we can do and what we cannot do.

we always function within our scope legally. we don't have a choice. nurses don't have a choice. it's a different way of looking at delivering health care. although we've been around for 50 years. were not as new as the current attention to our role may suggest. we have never sought to replace, takeover. we just simply do not need a legal requirement for another profession to supervisors oversee practices. we are highly trained, highly educated professionals who understand what it means to collaborate and seeking statutory authority to practice the full extent of our license. this is supported by a major national foundations.

the recent report of the national governors association. the institute of medicine. recent report on the future of nursing clearly states this is what the nation needs. nice to look at the profession of nursing, specifically nurse practitioners and allow us, require us to practice at the top of our license. when are we going to utilize this precious resource or patient need? fatso are looking to do. >> host: next call comes from richard in virginia in the suburbs. a physician, i cover richard. >> host: there's no way you can train a nurse practitioner at two years of college to be the equivalent of a physician. it's just not possible that the extra six years mean something, otherwise he would give it all back.

number two, nurse practitioners are not well enough trained. it is not the same as uniformity of the medical school is pretty much controlled. however, my problem is my experience with nurse practitioners. i have a number of family practitioners to use nurse practitioners and they are dumber than dog do. either four cases of: -- they are really not well enough trained after six years and doctors don't get these things, nurse practitioners do not have the training. they need to be supervised closely. washington d.c. and i guess it's about them all the time. they can't step in and say

you're going to. i really think when patients go to adopt her, make an appointment and get shuttled to a midwife or nurse practitioner, that's deceptive because their people do not have the training. keeping up with all the subtleties of medicine. what do you do about it? >> host: we got a good point. what kind of medicine do crack this? >> guest: ob/gyn. i missed erasing a patients with thyroid cancers that were overlooked. they were not well enough trained to do these things. saying they are doesn't make it so. tommy haas six years is equivalent to 12. postcode lets get a response. there's a lot on the table. >> guest: 16 states in the

nation i'll do not have regulation that requires oversight. some states have experience in excess of 20 years with nurse practitioners. none of the states are pulling back or finding nurse practitioners are in anyway unsafe. i think that speaks volumes to the educational preparation of nurse practitioners. the mention of the report said it recently come out of supporting the safety and efficacy of nurse practitioners. as far as education is concerned, six years in the errors are not equivalent and you cannot train a nurse to be a physician in six years. that's not the intent of nursing education. the intent is not to make nurse practitioners substitute for physicians. sr is uniformity as can turn, i

respectfully need to point out that is a fallacy. nurse practitioners in this country must be accredited by either the collegiate commission by the nursing patient division and thus to work those two organizations receive their authority to a credit for the united states department of education. the fact that nurse practitioner education is not uniform, the point is just false. as my colleague said, just because he said it doesn't make it so. >> host: what about his complaint that there's been misdiagnoses. our nurse practitioners -- is that part of their wheelhouse to be out to diagnose things like ira cancer? >> guest: absolutely, absolutely. we are educated to diagnose and

treat and there is no evidence that nurse practitioners fail to diagnose any oftener or support that is a problem. >> host: wild and wonderful who i think is a lawyer is following up to an earlier tweet. that is why the d. shows up in pitches a fit when somebody has not stayed within not scope and his liability or liabilities on the line. postcode can come the scope of this is a legal term that defines what we do. is it possible we talk about the difference between scope of practice and scope of authority? ..

>> host: with nurse practitioners carry malpractice insurance? >> guest: it is left expensive than positions. about $1200 a year. >> host: you are on, thank you for holding collar. >> caller: i am just calling to give kudos. are you there? >> host: we are listening. >> caller: giving kudos to the nurse practitioner. she is just wonderful, the nurse practitioner that i have. i am on medicare. they know what they are doing. they do diagnose. they write prescriptions. i have swelling in my mouth and they diagnosed that the medication for my blood pressure

is no longer any good for me. and that i needed to switch. i have not had any problem with that cents. i am just saying that i think they are wonderful. because they spend more time with you. a doctor comes in and check you. they take care of you. they listen to you. they pinpoint what you're talking you are talking about. and if they don't know, they will recommend you to go see a specialist. i just want to say kudos for the one that i have. >> host: all right, we have the point. >> guest: it is always great to have a satisfied patient. often patients will say that they are least satisfied with traditional care.

>> host: you get more complaints from patients or doctors. >> guest: i haven't gotten any complaints from patients at all. when i'm working with physicians, i think the complaints are organized medicine. that is where most of the pushback comes from. >> host: with nurse practitioners in general, is a common to have complaints? >> guest: it is not uncommon. there is a lot of concern and it is a change. nobody likes certain changes. this kind of change can be very

threatening. so yes, we do get pushback. the fact of the matter is we have been around for 50 years. we have provided quality care. 80% of us practice and quality care. there is a health care worker shortage. they predict such a shortage by 2020 and 2045. by the time that us baby boomers hit this, there will be a quarter of a million care providers it in shortage. we need all hands on deck. we cannot afford to engage in a conversation. we cannot afford it. we have wonderfully educated health care professionals and it is time to sit down together and talk about how to make the system what it is. what it needs to be. and have a conversation about

who is better. that horse has left the barn. we are here. we are quality. we have the support and expertise. >> we are going to break away from the last section of this "washington journal" segment. we will take you now to a live conference with ezekiel emanuel. he writes about his life and his relationships with his brothers, ari and rahm. you can see pictures from this historic synagogue in washington dc. live on c-span2. >> it was built as a second home. for the next 50 years, it was the turn turner memorial church. the building was going to be

sold. the congregation had moved, and they could not find a buyer. except someone who wanted to buy it and turn it into a nightclub. three washington developers heard about that. the deal was about to be inked and they said we cannot let this happen. they committed, in less than 24 hours, to saving the building. not knowing what was going to become. but knowing that they had to save it. the three of them looked at each other and it turned out one was a conservative and one was an orthodox and one was a reform jew. they decided that they were going to try something new and different. so today, you will find events like this, virtually every day. talking political conversation, rock concerts, jazz concerts,

everything that you can imagine so far, religious services, a variety of rabbis and leaders it is a wonderful vibrant community. i invite you to go to a website sign-up to hear about our events. sign up with the e-mails. we look forward to welcoming you back to this great institution. let me tell you about a few things that are upcoming. an individual is going to be on april 16 from the macarthur fellowship. then we have the author of how

stella got her groove back and waiting to exhale. in between are coming that come you will find a lot of concerts and talk. you will have postcards on your seats and you can look forward to seeing you back here. but clearly, you are here for tonight. we are so delighted to welcome ezekiel emanuel for the release of his book, "brothers emanuel: a memoir of an american family." when you think about his accomplishments, just a few, a vice provost and professor at the university of pennsylvania, is former special advisor for health policy to president obama in an op-ed columnists.

you could beware that i am the mother of three sons. the question i usually get is what you put in their mouth. i would be interested to say, but you really don't have secrets. the key is to love and nurture them. we kind of let our kids go and found a good and try to ignore all those other things. but if there is a secret, and i think that in our family, and have scene is in the book as

well, it is the bond of brotherhood. we speak so eloquently about these brothers. he paints a portrait of the entire family, including tough, old world grand parents, a loving family who immigrated to the united states at $25 to work as a doctor. a politically engaged mother who took her sons to protest rallies. including rallies in the streets of chicago he is a senior editor and for the audience portion of

the q&a, there is going to be a book signing following the event. we are really looking forward of welcoming to our stage tonight ezekiel emanuel. [applause] >> thank you so much. thank you very much. i'm looking at this forum a complete amazement. i have asked the question that everyone has asked. in fact, i was once moderating a panel. i sat in the green room, okay, what did your parents do? so this is a universal question. many drew a blank. there is no answer to that. however, it is astonishing.

the answer to the question has been invariably ask, how did you read the book, including some who might be among us tonight. the story of how this book came about in the first place. >> i like to blame marine doubt for the book. right after president obama was elected, my brother was the chief of staff. during all of the festivities, he said, you have to meet your mom. and i said, marine, why do you assume it is this? it could be genetics, genetic, the brothers, it could be the father.

>> there is a lot that i would like to guide a sweat. it is full of very memorable characters. and we will talk more about the dynamic that could've been the ingredient in the cereal. or as we say, what is in the secret sauce. so i have read the book looking for secret sauce clues. your father came from two achievers a very different kind. you had very different approaches to achieving. but not particularly with parents. tell us about the ambitions of coming here. >> yes, my dad was born in israel. his parents had escaped from odessa in the soviet union very early on.

they were pharmacists, he had an older brother that was substantially older who ended up being killed in 1933 when my dad was a young boy. he was on the periphery of a battle between jews and arabs and in jerusalem. he grazed his leg and he became infected and ended up dying. a coda which is not in the book, he is buried on the mount of olives for those of you who know jerusalem. it is on the east side of the old city. no one had seen his grave for years and years. then when we were in israel for my nephew's bar mitzvah, my daughter and i helped take care

of that cemetery for years. my father was the survivor. his parents never recovered from the loss of their older son. my father was a relatively indifferent, not very good student. he was known more as a joker. and his name was as a nickname, charlie. because he acted like charlie chaplin. in 1948 he went back to israel. >> he bothered to go abroad. he wanted that education and training. >> i think he wanted to escape his parents, to be honest. he turned out to be a good student once he got away from

his parents. he actually graduated number two in his class. number one was an arab from syria. and then he had a very rigorous study routine. studied until noon, and the rest of the day was for play. they came to the united states with $25. ended up in cincinnati at the children's hospital of there. he made two very serious mistakes. mistake number one was in 1953 he dated a black woman. in the head of the hospital had called him in and explain that this is not done in cincinnati, which as many of you know, is a very southern city. the second thing is he changed

advantage on a woman's nose job and she was pretty attractive. so he didn't just change it once a day, but three times a day. the problem was that she just wasn't any woman. she was the girlfriend of one of the mob guys from across the river in kentucky. one day two guys in a buick roadster showed up at the hospital and asked for him at the front desk. fortunately, the woman at the front desk was smart enough to see that there is something not quite right about those jackets. she said that she thinks that doctor emmanuel was not good. so unfortunately, my dad doesn't have a passport, because you can go back to the room.

but my dad is a very charming guy. one of these guys down in a restaurant and before you knock him in the next table is talking to you and before you know it, there could be dinner the next night. he ends up talking to some people. they end up taking him in in rochester for two weeks. for two weeks he stays there because he can't get into canada because he doesn't have a passport. he ends up going back to cincinnati. they are still after him. so he leaves cincinnati for chicago. >> so there are two things took off from there. one is the idea that that made the momentous world didn't just happen to people in the papers or on television. they happen to people right here in the family.

it was a much smaller and more intimate place and they were given this astonishing free range as part of the secret sauce. they had it in chicago too. it was called the trailblazer and the courageous older brother. but one thing that you said about the front of the family who was involved at the hotel, it was solid culpable proof that historic events were carried out by real people. called upon to act with a consequence. so that already sets you apart from other people. so he is the husband of my father's best friend from school. and they lived in israel.

he was this very big guy who was born in turkey. it had this incredible ability. he knew many languages. and he had this ability to imitate each one of them. so you talk to him and the first thing you do is beat a bad russian accent and an australian accent and he would just go on and on. it was hysterical. he worked as a translator because in all of these languages for the british. and he was housed working in the king david hotel which is the british headquarters in israel. and this was the place it in the blowing up in the british wing of the hotel and the british headquarters after multiple warnings. he told me the story sitting on

the balcony of the king david in 1967. basically pointing out the place. it was an amazing experience. it was probably four or five weeks after the end of the war. you can see from sitting there where the old border was in the old city. human into the old city right after. >> there is nothing theoretical about israel. it was where your parents had this extremely happy time at the beginning of their marriage. although your mother was raised in chicago. part of the theme as your childhood. his mother keeps thinking that they are going to move back to jerusalem and instead they move to wilmette. but talk about jerusalem on the north shore. >> right.

talking about israel and how formative it was common to countries and their cultures. could you talk a little bit about your mother's background? >> yes. >> by parents went there in 1957 when i got completed out of college. and she was incredibly happy. my mother loved the open culture men would come in and asked for condoms and she would give them

out. she was well-liked in the neighborhood. [laughter] >> my father, on the other hand, he had the series of horrible experiences of working at a mental institution and then at that time in 1957, they wrote prescriptions so they can have a free day in town. they would see the specialist for a little bit and the rest of the day it went off to the big city of tel aviv. so it was like a mini vacation for them. my father just did not like this corruption. he never participated in a kind of small level corruption that he hated. he hated making medical excuses for people. so he would get a lot of heat

from the higher ups because people would complain. in any case, they decided come back to the united states and tried to settle here. my dad was becoming a pediatric specialist. right after the war, as i say in the book, many of you will remember there were a lot of donations made to israel at that time. the two weeks after the war we arrived in israel. most of my friends thought they were much of enough. it's like, are you kidding? we had basically a house about as big as this stage with two large women, three wild

children, and three dogs. one bedroom, a living room, and that was it. not even a full bedroom. it's like a new york studio, basically. it was pretty tight. but we ended up spending every day down at the beach. swimming, getting to know the lifeguard, complete freedom. it was like one of those places where yes, there was a war going on. but the streets were completely safe. and we were allowed to meander wherever we want. >> to the brothers were sleeping in the same room, as he did. >> i would say on top of each other, more or less be not right next to each other, getting into fights all the time. you locate this even if you spend time in your house.

so it was israel that montague. >> yes, we went to israel altogether. basically the same scenario, sleeping in the same bedroom. spending time at the beach or whatever. you know, they were vacations, but more extended summers. we had pretty unscheduled time and did whatever the heck we want it, whether it was fishing were serving in the nurturing inner whatever. >> another theme is the idea of this postwar deprivation. >> it was also pretty on technological. there was a communal phone at the green grocer. people still sold fruits and vegetables by a car coming through the street. >> there is also the idea of you don't have any money, but nobody else does. so what difference does it make?

>> it is definitely a surprise. >> amazingly enough even in your first neighborhood apartment in chicago, one of the themes of the book is everyone in the family is a cheapskate. [applause] >> acceptor ari. >> except for him. >> he will be rich from the a very young age. he declares an ambition and he makes good on that. but the idea that your parents may have fought over small things like money, they have the same value, which was spending money as a cultural experience. >> yes, my father is very cheap when it except for when it comes to two things. so we would go to the symphony and he was pretty good with travel. he thought it was much better than going to school. so we would frequently miss

school, the start of school, spend it on vacations and travel the world. a lot of people have a hard time at that. we had no friends who had been to europe or israel. even though many of them are much richer than we were. but that was my father's view. you had to travel, is the best education you could get in the world. as they say in the book, he is not a spiritual man. he had some questions about god. he couldn't care. it did not get his blood pressure moving. on the other hand, finding out about people. trying to understand what makes the difference between people and what was interesting about them, the endlessly fascinating multiplicity of human beings. >> okay, so bringing this back, talk about this dark silent

brooding mother and long. the israeli grandmother comes and we don't get much of a sense of her character except that she never forgave your mother for stealing her only living child. >> yes, my grandmother on my fathers side died in 19653 years before i was born. my father moved back to be with her. so she's all she is all alone there. no siblings of hers, no children, so she comes to chicago. we have a spare room and bathroom in the house. this is an incredibly educated woman. she knows about four languages. refuses to learn english. will not speak english under any circumstance. so the whole house is english, and she doesn't say a word in english. but she perfectly understand that. he could follow the

conversation. but she refuses to speak any english. >> to what you think? >> well, he spoke a little hebrew and a little kiddush. but she was silent about the whole time because she has never recovered from the death of her oldest son. so it just seems like a violation of all the properties. >> whereas you have is very different and loud influence. >> yes, my mother's father. my grandparents on my father's side are uppercrust russians. my mother's side is different in chicago. my grandfather came to the united states about 10 years old. he was a stowaway on about. he goes to his father, he never

sent for the wife and kids because he remarried somebody in indiana. my grandfather shows up and basically she slams the door on his face. here he is from this young kid, having to make his own way in a foreign country. he is 6 feet tall, his hands were like baseball meds, just his hands. and he makes his life and is in the army at the end of world war i. never leaves the country, but is a boxing champion in texas. has a number of jobs. he works at armand hammer as a butcher and a steel worker. always a dedicated democrat and union organizer. when we come to know him, he is this loud and rough, very earthy

guy. >> he is a huge amount of fun, but he is also very tough. so he used to take us into bakeries. he knew everyone because he was in the food business by the time we became conscious. i remember this very vividly. he walked by the bagels being baked. and he sticks his hand in and grabs three bagels and they are like burning hot. he would eventually -- he sold his business in 1970. he basically sold the house, sold the car. there was only one problem. he did not have a passport. he decided that he was leaving. he can get a passport because these undocumented in the united states. so he is out of luck.

he sold his house and the goods and can't get to israel. so he moves into his house for two years. it takes two years to sort everything out. >> after two years, my grandfather on saturday mornings, he would stand in his white boxers, his white undershirt on, drinking orange juice from the canon. built-in. we would come up and sit down and he would whack us on the back of the head. and then he would make a half dozen eggs and bacon. until he could barely move when you are finished. but that was her grandfather. [laughter] >> you have these larger-than-life characters and a lot of them.

your house is kind of like -- it's very unusual there. cousins show up for dinner. >> yes, my mom's cousin troubles. to get hepatitis, lord knows where. is recuperating recuperates in our house for about a year. some families have stress. a kid shows up, stays for about nine months. so yeah, it happens repeatedly. >> even neighbors? >> yes, we have the son of an orthodontist to fix my brother steve. he is not doing very well. he shows up and stays for a long time. teaches us how to do things. because my father is uncoordinated to repair things. he teaches us how to build a shelf unit for the basement. forty-five years later, it is st hill thuse holding

up the books. >> somehow they learned that life there is the survival of the fittest. and you have to shout really loud to get the point across. that is just part of the family dynamic which predates this. it is just the latest. >> well, as it was said by my grandfather is very loud, nobody ever has a better argument. you know, so yes. >> it's not just about anything. it is about politics in a. >> yelling about politics in our house, arguing about music and movies and food. pounding on the table, the slamming of doors, all of that. it is sort of like growing up next to an airport runway. where everyone has become accustomed to the noise.

everyone shouted and argued about everything. >> probably the most famous argument i can remember was in 1966, we were living in chicago. about a block from the beach. it was a friday night. it was the middle of a big political race in october. paul douglas, he was a senator. he was the on-site intellectual in a very down-to-earth guy. supported all liberal causes, integration, was a supporter of the vietnam war. and chuck percy who was the president of bell & howell.

>> was a restricted? >> yes, it was restricted. he had a house on the lake. my grandfather is like, you know, it has to be paul douglas. my mom says, well, he's against the war. and they have this enormous fight. eventually my grandfather says get out of the house. and my mother goes out of the house. then she realizes it's her house. he has just thrown her out. of course, the one of the reasons it so memorable is two or three weeks later you're going down the vote. the voting places were just around the corner from our house. we were familiar with it. and mom was a very good citizen. she took the stroller down the steps. and this being chicago, the

workers know you. they know you personally. they talk about who you're going to vote for. so she goes and an ice cream, you can't vote for that man. that is chuck percy, he's a republican. >> so i go to pull the paul douglas thing and she waxed my hand and closest thing to register the vote. and everyone has heard this. and we are in chicago. you don't vote for a republican in 1966 in chicago. >> here is the details. you were in the booth with her? >> my grandfather said your vote for paul douglas. and we were. >> one of the strongest is just how politically active your father and mother were. your mom just didn't take it

into the voting booth, but she was taking you to demonstrations where she would put herself regularly in danger. >> yes, my mom was very active in the civil rights movement before it became fashionable. she was in washington during the i have a dream march. and she regularly took us to demonstrations. my most vivid memories are not so much of actual demonstration. but of the practice prior to the demonstration. the core activists will gather at our house. they would practice nonviolence resistance and it would be difficult for the police to arrest them. that is a great game for brothers to play with each other. trying to arrest each other and

that is probably what we remember. but we did go to a lot of civil rights demonstrations. we were privileged enough to be a major demonstration. we heard martin luther king speak at a church. >> did she go to washington to hear martin luther king? >> yes, she was part of the transformative event. she was very engaged. she got arrested several times. she never wavered. we live in a neighborhood in chicago, close to the lake. but it was not a posh or high-rise neighborhood. a lot of the people in the neighborhood were immigrants or

people from appalachia. this is a time when a lot of people from eastern kentucky had moved to chicago. we were regularly called names. we were called names because people would come over to the house and we would have friends that are black who would be with us. so it is a whole education. i wouldn't say absorbing, but having a lot of this hatred spewed at you. knowing that you are on the right side of things. >> so this is not the usual chicago childhood of the 60s. this is something that is politically engaged. your mother is very unusual for that kind of activism.

she is also her usual in another way. and that she makes her career raising her children. thing throughout the book, it is a terminal career. and your career walks out the door. >> yes, there you are up with little to no experience in the working world with very few marketable skills. i think this is such an important thing. this is the fate of millions of women in the 60s. many threw themselves into the role of wife and mother and homemaker. these activities were worthwhile. but their lives involved around serving others. most did not enjoy making decisions. by definition, their jobs came with opposition. >> so my mother was initially,

well, she had saved up a lot of money to go to college. but her father demanded that she turn the money over so that her younger brother could go to college. >> this is money that she herself earned? >> then she trained as a radiology technician in the early 1950s. and she ends up working at a hospital in chicago. so then she is dedicated to being a mother. i think all of us enormously benefited from not. in particular, my youngest brother. he had severe depression. so i had the inability to spell, which was a mild form of dyslexia. the ari could not read.

so she was pretty relentless in her role in helping him. i think if she hadn't been a stay-at-home mom who is focused on her kids, she probably would not have been able to overcome the dyslexia. but as you pointed out, she put all of her energy and talents into politics, civil rights movement, you know, coordinating a lot of activities. my father decided that, you know, as part of his middle-class aspirations for the american dream, he has to have a house in the suburbs. so he moves us out of chicago into the suburbs. my mom's entire political life is revolving around chicago. the desegregation of schools in chicago and i cannot. her entire activity is separate from raising her kids. she has to re-create a life in the suburbs.

was 1968. my mother never drove. we got along on public transportation and buses. they always took the bus downtown to the subway in chicago. >> she learned how to drive the. >> yes, she hated it. yes, and she had to re-create what she was going to do. fortunately, or unfortunately, four doors down from where we live, there was a big slumlord. he was named braverman. my mom found her calling. her mother found her calling and protested at his house. [laughter] he, of course, you might think he was thrilled by the idea that

his neighbor was protesting. pointing out that he was a big slumlord. we never got along with him. he had the little yellow yapping dog. we had this big german shepherd called on delay. and there was this grassy park near a major thoroughfare and we would walk a few blocks down. then i would walk back. then i would sort of let him go so he could stretch his legs and run. i did run behind him. when one day there was a little yapping dog out there. he stops and jumps up and someone picks up the dog, afraid that my dog would have this done for breakfast.

and he yelled at me for not having my dog on a leash. i just ignored him and walked home. a few minutes after i get home, there was a town on the front door. no one ever did that. no one ever came to the front door. >> so you knew something was wrong or. >> yes, everyone came through the side door in the kitchen. my mother answers and i try to find out what the rockets is. of course, i get into it. i start yelling at him. my dog had bitten him, and he pulls back his coat and reveals that he has a gun in his waistband. my mom was like, oh, this is all we need. so she is trying to drum a cute. she wasn't so subtle of a lady.

finally, she slams the door on him. about two months later they moved. >> but your mother really stood up for her beliefs and made sure that you did as well. but by the same token, she let you make your own mistakes. and she let you be in everybody's face. at the principal's office all the time, hearing them out, not just saying this is my son and anything he does is fine. it was saying, what is the right and wrong of the situation. because you are all against authority in the beginning. you are taught to question authority. even a home you have a family meeting. if there is something that is really on your mind. my friend wrote a book about

this. and i was really thinking about what you were doing in the 60s. >> my youngest brother, ari, he was adhd dyslexia before those things were classic. he was rambunctious. he was a wild animal. he was also physically fit because he had to survive us two older brothers. and he eventually became a high school wrestler. he was regularly taken out on people. one memorable thing is when we had a friend and his friend, a younger brother who talked a little funny and was often made fun of. you know, there was a guy, one

of the leaders in the school making fun of this kid. and ari walked by and smashed this in his face and then got into a big fight with him on the ground for making fun of this friend of ours. well, my mom you know, she was at school in seconds. every other day, she was in the principal's office. it was a routine. but if ari is going to stand up for our friends kid, she was going to defend him. there was no to questions about its. >> not only does ari become a sort of champion, but all the kids are not allowed to have so much as a sport and transport them in the house democrats. >> get your mother lets you guys beat each other up. because you're learning to defend yourselves.

>> well, she used to claim that she was a pacifist. i think that was the source of her anti-vietnam street. but it is true that she learned quickly that you can borrow guns from funds from the house. but you cannot get rid of fish. we were very good at this. we lived in a tough neighborhood of chicago and she recognized that. if we were going to get pushed around, we were needed to stand up for ourselves. >> so you are all good fighters. before we go to questions, let's summarize the brothers. we have talked a bit about your brother and how he developed an incredible charm and ability to read people and frankly manipulate them. >> yes. >> every picture you have of

him, he has this impish look on his face. and he's great at pushing buttons and being charming and making sure that he can go to the line. and no matter what he does he does this. and yes, he can be very pugnacious, but he is also extremely charming. >> you talked talk about getting into an argument with your mother. >> he has some arguments, this is when he is older to okay. >> he takes my mother lets her up and put it in the garbage can and leaves. [laughter] >> to make sure that everything is hunky dory when he comes home, he gets a big bouquet of flowers. that is classic. rahm, on the other hand, and

this is always shocking. especially in washington, he was the silent brother. he was not a very big talker. when we used to play constantly, i would speak for him all the time. he was always the kid in the middle between ari and die, the peacemaker. very modest. washington finds this hard to believe, but it is all true. he did not blossom until after his senior year in college. the story is that during our senior year he was working at arby's because he needed to make money. >> senior year in high school? >> yes, my parents never gave allowances. it was never part of her culture. so we wanted to do anything that required a lot of money, if it

was educational, they would pay for. but if it was just socializing, you had to assert yourself somehow. >> your brother went to the second most expensive college in america? >> yes. >> ends of slicing his finger while cleaning out. it makes me cringe. he bandages that and stop the blood. for whatever reason, my father goes to graduation. after a number of days he is looking terrible, sweating, having hot and cold feds. clearly it is black and infected. he gets taken to the emergency room. he spends more than a month in the hospital, including in the intensive care unit, very close to dying. this is a transformative event for him.

he's no longer silent. he is no longer carefree or casual. he became a man on a mission. and the mission becomes politics. at that time he didn't know that that was politics. but it becomes that. >> so when he was fundraising and calling your parents friends, they would agree to a thousand dollars but they said they would want let him embarrassed himself. i will put you down for 2000. [laughter] >> so there is a theme. my father, as i mentioned, was not a particularly good student when he was in grade school in israel. he was more of a classic round. he just never could sit down and

actually work hard. until he went to switzerland and got away from his parents and his brother's shadow. there he teaches himself french. he teaches himself out in about six weeks. the swiss system there only three tests, one at the end of six years. he is there for this semester and he doesn't know a word of french. this is in the french-speaking part of switzerland. he has english and french dictionary and reader's digest. he can examine passes. he had this rigorous technique, but it's very limited. so we end up coming across

president and graduates number two in his class. that same behavior -- a very undistinguished student through high school, probably because his older brother is two years ahead of him and a very good student. he couldn't care about school, he could never get to work hard. and he doesn't ever do anything. when he leaves come he goes to this episode of nearly dying because of this infection. and he leaves to go to college. he goes to sarah lawrence college. and he suddenly blossoms. it is in that environment can strive to become number one and take seriously how to excel. >> excel.

>> something else you say about your father is that he would make the right moral choice in a difficult situation. and you just always learned that from him. over time it was secondary to practice. you talk about how this works. you don't have to prove yourself in israel come you don't have to have a badge that shows you are observant as it are in america. even orthodox jews could be a part of things. your parents are not particularly believers, but it's a very important identity. >> my father wouldn't even know what a believer man. these questions are relevant to him.

on the other hand, practicing good deeds, he worked in chicago. because he knew so many languages, much of his practice was in the immigrant community, many who were poor and first generation in the united states. he regularly cared for poor people with no pay. used to have this practice. you'd pay the pediatrician if you could pay. by the time he got to that, the fourth one, he said it wouldn't charge them. so he was, yeah, he didn't want to be among the poor, but he certainly thought that they deserve equal treatment. in 1965 when the ama would not support medicare or medicaid, he resigned. ..