but words paint pictures in a way that nothing else can. >> you can watch this another programs online at booktv.org. >> next on booktv, a panel discussion from the 2013 tucson festival of books on the book "ban this!: the bsp anthology of xican@ literature." it's about an hour. >> good morning, friends. it's my pleasure to moderate a panel on the new book, "ban is y this!," and my honor to introduce you to this bill. i just want to say by way of introduction, my name is luis tn alberto urrea. i'm a proud veteran of mexican american studiesol program, and gee, it's too bad they didn't lead me to anything good int lem

life. [laughter] [applause]n so, you know, before we get [appl started, i just wanted to say something that coming in a, this th isn't really about books.books. it's about our children and it' about the freedom of thought. i just want to kill you we are t really, really blessed are real blessed to have m a s students with us today and i was wondering if you would stand up for a second. could you stand up for a second? [applause] >> these are our children. that is what it is about. i want to introduce you to the editor of "ban this: the bsp anthology of xican@literature," one of my favorite people in the world and somebody who's doing

the battle, santiano rivera, poland, activist and as i said to these kids we met earlier today, this is a compliment, he thinks it is 1971 so he is an activist. i asked santiano rivera to introduce his panel of people. i am a little fan boyed out with these folks right here but thank you. i will turn it over to santiano rivera. >> hello, welcome, thank you all for coming. it is an honor to be here with you. [applause] >> i am a publisher, independent publisher and daughter and being here is a dream come true. it is an amazing story, we're bringing it to you in person, it is very humbling. it was humbling to meet the

students and how this is directly affecting the -- i was able to reach out through the internet through social media and go coast to coast and bring together you can see one of the slides has all of the offers i was able to contact. some of marocs stars like gustavo arellano down here on the end and other ones who are up and coming and part of the next generation of chicano authors. one of the things we're trying to tell these kids this morning is they are not alone and the whole world is watching. it is mind blowing and the little surreal in a twilight zone kind of way that we are in this day and age talking about censorship of literature and art and history. let me thank you again for coming.

let me introduce everybody. you already know luis, one of my heroes, i tell him on a daily stock, a lot of literature, american literature, walt whitman, and i like to push e e elr elreo, their american literary treasures and both need to be recognized. [applause] >> we are talking about people who are afraid of the word chicano, it is one of those loaded terms nowadays because of the way politics rules but we are talking about american authors. this is american literature. this body of work, these studies, it is american studies. it needs to be recognized and embraced by everybody. we are just like everybody else. that is part of the reasons that

we are here. let me introduce the rest of the panel. to my left we have andrea serrano from albuquerque, new mexico. she is and author, put and musician, she has an amazing poem, i hope you guys check it out. to her left we have an educator, author and poet and she is from san diego, california and she has mind blowing amazing pieces, in particular is about the game that kids play as children called border patrol, you have to check it out. on the end we have another rock star with us who was gracious enough to lend his talents to this book and into this panel, this is gustavo arellano. if you don't know, he is coast to coast in weekly papers and some dailies too, if you ever open the paper and you have seen

the stereotypical character guy, and the sombrero, he answers questions from anybody and everybody about mexicans. this is him. he is also the editor of the ioc weekly in orange county and author of paco usa:how mexican food, america which he will be talking about later today. it is a real honor for us to be here with you and to present this to you and i am going to hand it back to luis. >> some panel. [applause] >> santiano rivera and i spent a lot of time talking about this issue on twitter, all morning. the thing that has been haunting me lately is -- i thought would be a useful first question, i

cannot comprehend why when the issues begin to transpire here, that the first national media coverage was in france and england and russia and the united states didn't pick up on it for quite a while. i am curious. i am not saying any kind of conspiracy or any other thing, but i don't understand what that is about? i know you will have an opinion. i was wondering what was it that kept the mainstream media from pursuing the story for a while? >> this has been going on for a long time. we have been talking about the chicano movement which goes back decades. there was a chicano journalist in l.a. ruben salazar who was killed by the police during the chicano moratorium. i have been reading a lot of

this stuff. i noticed in the 70s the word chicano was part of the national lexicon in those times. was spoken about in congress, it was -- there was an article in the wall street journal about a bunch of chicanos in east l.a. and what was going on and over time we have gotten away from that word and that history that that word has become a very scary word because people's fear and ignorance. a lot of them media and a lot of people have clung to pushing that word and anything related to that word off to the side, it is tied in a hushed kind of word so i think it is almost accepted in the media nowadays that it has anything to do with mexican-american studies or chicano studies or anything, doesn't even relate to the studies, if you are not talking

about immigration, the media, or a latino voting bloc, the media doesn't really talk about it. they will use words like latino or illegal. if you use words like mexican war chicano it scares people for some reason and it shouldn't. we are talking about books. we are at the tucson festival of books, which has the tinge of irony to it when it is in the same state where books are banned. that is a bizarre kind of irony. i just think that people are afraid and people are usually afraid because of ignorance. if people would just look and read these books, read luis alberto urrea's books, read occupy america or any of these band offers and for your own opinions. these are just words, this is just a book, these adjust ideas, it is just literature. i am hoping that through us

being on c-span you people being here who may be from out of town, you will take something from this with you agree with it or not and say we don't need to be afraid of literature, we don't need to be afraid of books. hopefully that will carry on. >> when we are talking about coverage in the media, why wasn't this a big deal? why didn't this can national coverage, it is because it is about chicanos and we are pushed to the margins and he raise oftentimes and looking at the literature it wasn't just books by chicano on others that were banned, it was not the majority of the books. often times where left out of the national conversation, and being from new mexico, we don't make national mia a lot of the time and when we are talking

about something like banning books we're talking about an act of racism, we fight it every time about education and funding, we are talking about racism and no one wants to talk about racism any more. there is this idea that chicanos don't face any racism and we're not a racist, and why don't you just get over it already. you don't get over it because the people in our books in bosses and passing laws against it. this is an just happening in arizona, it is right on that line. and while we being ignored my media? we don't want the cause for what it is and it is an act of racism. >> it is an indictment of the pathetic state of the american

mainstream media today. during the 70s chicanos were all over. even the word and coverage, one of my all-time favorite magazine covers came from sports illustrated. it might have been 1970. the picture was the great minnesota vikings quarterback and the headline was simple, the toughest chicano. plain and simple. sports illustrated said this was a man who was chicano who for the rest of the country, that is not a mexican name. sports illustrated just created it as an aside. how sad that 40 years later, we have to beg the media to cover not just stories of controversy but stories that treat latinos and chicanos as normal people outside illegal aliens savages or poor unwed mother or that, it is an indictment of the me and especially nowadays with media consolidation and media layoff i see it getting worse and worse but the great salvation is

social media, people who are not trained journalists who become loggers on their own and spread the message across the way. i first found out what was going on with mexican-american studies by bloggers, by facebook, by twitter. i did not have to rely on the new york times or the los angeles times or any other media outlet. that is an indictment of the media but also shows the path forward to get past these know nothings and go to the heart of the matter and teach what needs to be taught. >> it has to do with being in the eyes of the mainstream media the others are ignored. basically says to me and to you and to people who aren't chicanos you don't exist, you don't matter, your history doesn't matter over and over again. it is racism, it is crap. >> that will be the headline.

it is crap. lizz huerta. so when decision comes up, i am repeatedly reminded there is no banning, there was no banning, you were box, you were banned. that is really interesting thing because as i told somebody who wrote a long thing in my facebook page explaining how lizz huerta's. are available in every bookstore in arizona the problem is what happened here, people can think of another phrase for it but banning. boxing doesn't work. is like newspeak. boxing seems to me away to say it was soft banning. the short hand has heard tucson and hurt arizona because the short hand is book banning in arizona or book banning in tucson. check out on google. there are twenty-eight million hits under tucson book banning. that is scary to me because that

to me does not reflect tucson, arizona. that is the picture in the country so i want to ask about that, the sly use of terminology to manipulate what the story might be. i am not going to say we are all angels either but there's a weird use of newsp can bureaucratese to repackage and repurchase the agenda. talk about being boxed rather than they and. your book could have been called box this but it would not have worked. and actually the idea for the title came directly from luis alberto urrea when we were talking on twitter and angry about it and talking about terminology and you ought to

publish an anthology and college ban this and i said that is brilliant. i am going to run with it, but -- >> too much coffee that morning. >> it was brilliant. talking about spinning something, in an age of spin and rhetoric. ever since the 80s when ronald reagan rolled back some of the laws that said you had to present both sides of the story and had to present evidence, that was the birth of things like fox news. nowadays you have spin on everything. when this happened people came out of the woodwork saying you are lying, that is a lie, they were not bad, they would just box, put in the closet. kids still have access to these books, just over there, have to go and get them.

which is insanity because we're talking about students and one of the teachers, he has had to reformulate for me -- for years of teaching, and inside of his head, he can't let certain spots get out of that. he has a legal thoughts. you start putting away books, and boxing, what are you really saying by that action? what you saying by doing that? this book is illegal, dangerous. and the words you are reading our going to work your mind and do awful things like go to college and get educated and become a productive member of

society. and an educated brown mind. that is what you're talking about. some of the media does it too and these guys, griping and complaining and not really a big deal, and they go to the library. and get some of them, interested in learning and reading, and the task within itself. and some much extra effort to do them on their own, and that seems silly when they can have it part -- the spin that people put on it. and people talking about putting barbwire around students and teachers, to even think things that are in trouble.

>> the ban or the box or whatever you want to call it, and it makes me really mad because when i heard about all the other laws, and passing copycat laws that made me angry but the book ban hurt me and and i was lucky enough outside of school to enter it xerox copying, and having this read them and seeking out, and finding all of this chicano literature using words that made sense to me and using ideas that opened up my mind and to hear this is being taken away hurt me in a way that nothing else has

heard and when it gets explained away, it is an insult to my intelligence and an insult to your intelligence, to the students is that you want to take away our books? do it on your own time on saturday mornings after school, and i commend you for that because at some point we get to the point, we don't need a system to paraphrase, we were not meant to survive anyway. we were not supposed to be part of it anyway, doing it on your own, keep doing it that way. the fact that this book that brought us together and published this book, going around a system that didn't want those words to exist the fact that you are still here and you were not meant to be any way speaks volumes about who you were so you are not going anywhere, we are not going

anywhere. [applause] >> i think it is terrifying that you would take something, when you ban something and say you are putting in not box because when does it end? what is the next thing you're going to put in the box? when right to take away is done incrementally to the point you don't notice. put a frog in water, in cold water and turn the heat up slowly and it doesn't realize it is being cooked until it is dead. that could very well happen. it is things like this are allowed to go on. boxing as opposed to that is terrifying the spins a put on language and the spin they put on taking something away that is sacred and absolutely necessary. >> what is disturbing about this is the people who are advocating this are using excuses to justify what they are doing which is identifying specific

books as somehow being evil and subversive and so terrifying that we cannot have our tucson children be exposed to reading them. you want to talk about newspeaker they're justifying their own excuses and what is more telling is some of these books, i know how they got to is this. mexican-american studies of anything mexican american studies does is automatically evil so let's ban it all, that shows they don't read single book there. i found this out yesterday. i thought i knew all the books but one of the books on the list is called two badges:the life of moe and lisa. that goes to back where i am from, orange county, calif.. evil conservative orange county, it is taught in the schools and 9 mexican american studies the high school because it is an inspiring story, true story of a woman who grew up in policy as a gang member, turned her life around and is now a police officer going "ban this: the bsp

anthology of xican@literature" gang members and the inspiration. if you want to get on the conservative level it is one of the classic pull up your bootstraps horacio alger fables that would be lionized all across the united states if it happened to a non mexican woman that wasn't being taught by mexican american studies but the fact that it is medieval. they can newsp call they wanted to use the term in spanish the very idea that this is happening just shows people in charge of tucson unified the nichols. [applause] >> they told us they could stay stuff -- english translation is -- a ball of dummies. >> talk about spin. dummies. god bless you. >> and don't forget, the evil hypnotic burrito to him a tie students to do his bidding

apparently. and curtis acosta, all these guys. i am really interested in some of these issues on a greater stage and i am always nervous. i said this you last year. i am nervous to come here and lecture tucson. makes you feel like a carpet bagger. i come from chicago to tell you how you people in arizona should live but i was lucky enough to live here and my wife was a reporter, a tucson citizen. you were a good home for me when i worked on devils highway. it feels like home in a certain sense and it concerns me and it concerns me about the bigger home as well and we were wondering if in fact what is

happening or has happened, it is not about the books, it is about larger issues, the fate of the kids and so forth. is this the canary in the coal mine. is this the harbinger of what may be afoot elsewhere? >> this is obviously something that has been going on forever. how long have parents and groups been fighting against classic train them american literature, great of wrath, huckleberry finn, i know why the cage bird sings. your books and this is going to happen forever and ever. what is so galvanizing, is taking on a body of work.

mexican-american studies, all the offers were mexican-american or chicano. people are finally realizing again worse now than we were in the past, and all across the united states. and we know from the 2012 elections, we had a candidate, recycling deportation, he was going to get people to vote for him. and mitt romney and a day later, and applaud that. who cares we have been demonizing them the past 25 years and let's demonize them now. in this sense it is galvanizing for those in the trenches, if i'm going after literature you find subversive you would

already be going after civil-rights and language, or you really want 150 years. they are going after books. and learned the language and the love of literature and if you are that desperate, let's fight, let's do it. [applause] >> i like what luis alberto urrea said about the feeling of saying we are here to save you when the reality is people of tucson and across arizona have been fighting for a long time and the reality is in new mexico we get this idea of why is this happening here? we are a majority state. it did happen in mexico in 1996

in a tiny town, sisters and teachers started teaching chicano studies. it was not a big deal and then all of a sudden a principal who was also chicano, mexico got this whole identity thing going on, three days of panels. >> that is another panel. >> but the principle started coming down on them so they stopped teaching chicano studies and started teaching teaching tolerance curriculum from the southern poverty center and they got fired for being subversive and won their lawsuit and now they teach in albuquerque. we forget that this happened in new mexico. we are on the verge of it happening, the first female latino governor who is horrible for our state and horrible for the latino people.

she is part of that read branding of republicans and she is gunning for undocumented people, she is gunning for women, she is gunning for everybody and a lot of us in our other states, we're watching what is going on in arizona but a lot of us are watching the fight that is happening because we are gearing up to fight in our own state and we have to support each other? these borders don't exist. these borders don't exist between us we are sovereign people and we deserve and have to demand our rights and so definitely no one is coming in and saying this is what you need to do, tucson, because we haven't figured it out, we don't but we do know we have to fight. ..

we're going to fight you. being stuck in the '70s, i attribute my parents who are part of the chicano movement back then, and that's just how i was raised. i was talking with students earlier. when i was in high school it was the early '90s, and that was a very tense time, and a lot of the pop culture from back then was very angry. if you listened to the music from the air, we listened to public enemy and a lot of the art, a lot of the poetry, everything about the time was about fighting back. i think we've lost a little bit of that. we have become passive. the internet is great. social media is amazing. i wouldn't be here without it te but part of, one of the bad things about social media is the big important issues get passed over very quickly. quickl i think that now that this t struggle, this fight that was brought tohgl our attention last night, this is a federal issue

attent now. now there's at federal court tht is going to uphold this ban on ethnic studies. ethnic studies and this has gone beyond going on at the state. this is a federal issue and this should scare everybody. when that is threatened, people need to pay attention. >> if they are going to start banning those books come and they are going to look at everyone else. it has been going on for a long time. but people usually take up arms and fight back coast-to-coast.

it kind of gets glossed over and that angers and infuriates a lot of us and i'm hoping we can bring more people to the fight they cannot deny that it is american history. >> yes, i remember a professor in the history and she debated dinesh d'souza and he told her, well, we all have political correctness and she said oh, no, this is about historical correctness. and i thought, that was a really interesting response or it i do agree with you about all of us being together. he felt that tucson is a common

ties spot. and i think we are pretty traumatize nationally as well. it is getting harder and harder to process what things to get up in arms. the issue that hits us all home is that this is about us. they may come after these guys right now, but then what? and that is the thing that haunts me. i always think them for upping my book sales. and it's a tough issue and i just want to say, don't you

think that telling young people know makes that seem sexy? [laughter] especially around literature he was lacerated for who he was some students, it's like they are in a landmine, but the worst happen, blowup and you'll find out that you are still together after it blew out. that is interesting to me and he told the students and take the shuttle and go over with it. talk to me about the hope. what is the hope? it is kind of easy to be

jeremiah or elisha and callout doom. fire raining down on all of our heads. which is how we feel. is the hope in the power of being denied? is it in the unity of these people? i always look at the back bookshelves where i knew that stuff was hidden. you know what i'm talking about. [laughter] >> yeah, so what is the hope, do you feel? >> i think that the hope of these kids, like you said, being told no. you can't read this. that makes it a taboo kind of inequality that is going to draw people even more to it.

i was talking about people are kind of afraid, i think, not just here, but coast-to-coast, stick your neck out and make a stand and say this is wrong, especially if you are a bigger organization than you have some clout. because you are afraid of what is going to happen and the consequences and i like to tell people that i am a worse case scenario kind of guy and what is the worst thing and in this position, if they are speaking out, what is the worst that they can do to them. if the shrapnel comes off without landmine, i hope to

inspire not only you but the next generation of kids to not take no for an answer and do not take the authority of a school board or a politician and to question authority and to act on their own. i'm an independent publisher. and i don't have that kind of a bankroll behind me. this is all easy to do that. i was able to go as an idea and these kids can do this too. these kids can form their own poetry readings and their own chat chapbooks and go out on the street and appear to come

together in their communities and libraries are powerful places. [applause] >> we always there. we need to support public libraries. these kids can be just as powerful as any politicians, but they have to step on that landmine and we have to stand with them so we can do together. >> i completely agree and one i think about this, it's hard to have hope. and when you're hearing about things, like the book banned in the attack on the people, one

that was passed in california so it is hard to have hope sometimes these students come together and it feels a little bit better. i feel like i'm going to be doing this ever and that is okay. the hope is that we continue to do this together. because we are going to be fighting like this for a very long time. i am okay with that if you are. [applause]

one of the things that i notice is that artists are always in the forefront and trenches of the revolution and of change. we are always right there in the trenches and what is coming next. if you look at history, the emotional historians of the world, the books were laying the groundwork for tremendous change even though it is scary at times, sometimes you have to go through the scary stuff to get to the good part. so i have a lot of phone and i'm kind of excited to be a part of it.

>> definitely a shout out to the librarians out there. you guys are the best people in the world. by far. the best people in the world, severely underpaid and i'm a reporter and i know the depravities of mankind the idiots always lose. so in that sense, the idiots were on the school board, this is actually the best thing that could have happened think of it this way. okay, maybe the system could be passed on and that is a

phenomenon and nothing really happens. let's read, authors together, let's have these panels, start doing things on social media. a friend of ours from houston, he actually started a movement and he is trafficking in books and these communities and centers and they say this is a bunch of donated books, don't tell the feds, but here are these books, he got a shout out from "the new york times" opinion page. you guys are the ground soldiers and you have our undying support for those all across the united

states and you guys have to take the lumps and bruises. so many people have had to take once and bruises so we can all enjoy what has ended up happening. you can never suppress a great idea. >> debts. my last hope is directed to you beautiful young folks we are on twitter and facebook and we will answer you. i want to tell you that this is the big hope on my part, this is the united states of america. we can all vote.

[applause] we are reserving last part of this event for questions or conversation if you want to talk to us. there are microphones on either side. if you want to step up to the microphone, let's chat. i would love to hear what you'd have to say what any of us can answer what you would like to ask. don't be shy. >> we should all give our twitter handles. mine is all one word. all lowercase letters, minus the same. >> [inaudible] >> i am at sjrivera.

we both have the same quarter together. yes, sir? >> american media is like the big yawn. people in america don't want to hear about it, they want to hear good news. they want to hear stuff that resonates with the consumer culture at but they are focused on celebrities and not stuff.

but in the end, i think that there is also an element to how this all works. and that is because the media is so dependent on the money that comes from marketing. the market people that are marketing, they don't want to hear about it. they want the easy message and the broad coverage and they want to get their stuff sold. >> but they do want to scare everybody that we are flooding the borders and bringing crime and disease and they want to freak out the redder the blue side, depending on where you

fall. there is a huge crazing block and what they don't want to talk about any of our contributions to this country, including our history and literature and art and pretty much our culture. they don't want to credit it. people want to keep their head in the fan. one of the points i like to make about this is that yes, today is chicano studies and small maybe it will be african-american studies. what has happened, what are the

worst things that has happened is a niche of the mind. [laughter] thank you for your questions. not a lot. >> when i talk about the mexican american studies program, it was through the documentary presage knowledge. and i am so glad that my community, that the schools are taking this up. i was really glad to be a part of the social history part of it and that there was a cultural aspect and about a week go, they came down on mexican american

studies and for all of the organizing that was happening, the anglo community, there was nothing we could do. it made me feel terrible about tucson and there was a tucson that i didn't know and that i didn't live in and that i didn't want to be a part of. then another good thing happened. the banned books were took up and started to be distributed. this is a way that we come together in terms of how do we choose our issues. so okay, we'll take some banned books, and here they are. >> thank you. one of the things that makes me

crazy about this is the focus put on tucson. this is kind of a phoenix that session. you guys did not do it. you guys did not do it. there is a big fat dude not only on the children but on tucson, arizona. you know, that really outrages me and hurts. frankly, i just don't think it's fair. there are bullies that push this place around and you all have got the wrong pr people. we always break it down to an easier denominator. arizona or tucson. tucson bands the books. it's like go to tucson and bring the love and chicanos right --

they write good books. it is unfair on so many levels. i really don't know. the tucson folk festival is one of the things that i can do. and you're doing it. it moved me that bill understood this that he set aside a place to quietly sit with the students this morning and we would be able to have the students here. that is tucson. that is tucson. [applause] >> yes, sir? >> my name is jim roderigo and i have been driving all night from colorado. >> god bless you, brother. >> it's been 33 below for a whole week. anyway, i have come here to

support. thank you, c-span. i'm over there watching you and i appreciate what you do. i wrote a little book called more than an american. because what we are, we are first human beings. they say american citizen americans are, and in the end, we believe the same way and we are human beings. there were two students doing a

book report flight kill all the migrants. and i'm in a family where i'm the oldest and someone will remember that. just like when they say to legalize things, we have to do these things all over and one of them is learning english.

and i think that they should. language is something that you cherish. your wife and your kids and sometimes you may dream and argue with them. the native americans take this so much. a lot of the schools, we were punished for speaking spanish. so round one, we don't want another one. so focus a little bit on that. i love kids and we are behind you guys.

thank you so much for all the work that you do. thank you for coming in. thank you. >> thank you. [applause] >> my name is mike. my first comment is in support and my second one is the point of being contrary. i think it's good for all of us to continue to stir the pot often in the some people view a lusty as a form in ethnic cleansing.

if you start banning the history of the chicanos, you ban other ethnic stories. that is a form of historical and cultural genocide. they are a local tribe. and i support everything that has been put on the table. i think that chicano literature should follow history. several comments came from the table and one was i am a student of history. the reference to historical correctness. and here is my point as a human being, as a human rights activist, how do you reconcile

islam and entirely ignore indigenous people in this country? [inaudible] the genesis comes from the black mountains. so how can chicano studies entirely ignore that? because if you claim this, it is another form of cultural imperialism. [applause] >> i say that respectfully to my chicano brothers and sisters. >> i do not mean to interrupt you, but i think that you have different chicano studies across the country that have different kind of curriculums. many of my brothers and sisters are very welcoming and inclusive of our indigenous roots.

some people like to preach about this and i know that a lot of the time you have indigenous tribes that are at odds with chicano studies student. we are all part of the same tribe, as you said. chicanos come from indigenous peoples. that is part of her history as well. the indigenous history is included. we are one. we come from not win. the borders that they have invented and john across our land, we all come from the same place. we all walk across the same continent. chicano studies is inclusive of the indigenous roots and history. if you look at some of the programs across the country, it's a very big part of it. i am sorry that you might feel

that we are at odds, but we are not. you and i are one. we are all from the same place and we all have the same roots when it comes to that. to me and the rest of the panel, chicano studies is very proud of our indigenous roots. it is a big part of the movement. >> thank you. >> remember that when mexican-american studies were taken down, mexican-american studies were taken on as well. so unfortunately we are dictated by a larger clock and our time has run out. i am thankful to you for our time together and i hope we see each other out, we can continue to talk.