the same or serve the same purposes and need to be treated the same in the public square. >> i don't want to stay the same and we have to wrap up but like you, i've won to strengthen the marriage culture, commitment, i care for children and i hope that >> i hope you are right. >> i appreciate the opportunity to work out with the ongoing dialogue. >> it is always amazing to talk to you and we appreciate your clarity and commitment. >> i appreciate to be here with you as well. thank you to you as well.

to>> now want your screen is a familiar face if you watch cable news station's and c-span american university history professor, allan

lichtman who just completed another book this one is entitled "fdr and the jews" professor, when did a policy discussion about european jews begin in the united states? one could argue it begins as early as the woodrow wilson administration because britain issued the balfour declaration in 1917 that said his majesty's government will do whatever it can to provide a homeland for jews in palestine as long as it did not violate there right to of those who were already there and woodrow wilson backed the bell for a declaration. that was important but then

the ascendancy to the presidency almost exactly coincides with adolf hitler's gaining control in germany and these two men, the democrat and the dictator linked first in conflict then to war and rice to the beginning of the roosevelt administration discussions over the persecution of jews in germany. >> two was leading those discussions? >> probably the leading% was an informal adviser who roosevelt had known much earlier when he was assistant secretary of the navy and they reestablished the friendship when roosevelt ran for governor in 1928 against a jewish opponent and frankfurter was

an important to initiate those discussions and what americans can do about it also the secretary of labor frances perkins who was a labor activist and a major advocate for refugees. >> secretary perkins and frankfurter worth a jewish? gimmicky was although he did not become justice until the thirties but frances perkins was not but oddly she was attacked by anti-semites basically anyone who supported jewish issues was jewish franklin roosevelt himself was accused of being jewish people talk about president rosenfeld and he had a wonderful response i am not jewish but i think

people are wonderful and i would not mind if i was. >>host: was there a consensus of opinion of fdr among the american jews? >> at the time there was the absolute consensus of opinion they were the strongest supporters of the four campaigns successfully they were important donors to the democratic party and they revered franklin delano roosevelt they understood he did not do everything possible to persecute the jews of europe but day understood he was vastly better in his position at home and better for his position than any other world leaders including churchill to talk to lots but didn't do anything for the jews and was bad for immigration and policy

even after the concentration camps were repealed jews were continued to revere roosevelt even with his policy did not emerge in tall much later after critical books are written in the late '60s. >>host: professor allan lichtman was there an opportunity in the '30's to change your of fact what was about to happen in germany? >> it would be very difficult to change the course of events. hitler had his own plan for world domination, his hatred of jews and persecution and slaughter was not a secondary that was primary to his ideology and his approach to the world people wondered why in the world with tens of millions dying

and the fate of the world hanging in the balance why would they divert resources simply to hunting out it was hard for americans to understand but that was never a diversion from the war but a primary objective of the war to which you would devote resources to hunting down a people and exterminating them, men and women and children it was the primary goal of hitler and secondary to him. >>host: wear and were american policy makers aware of that? favor of wear by the late

1941 the a telegram was sent that came to the rabbi head of the american jewish congress to the state department providing evidence of what we call a the final solution for the holocaust everybody believed it of course, but information was piling up and lots of other sources by late 41 heller was engaged in a horrific campaign of slaughtering jews. november 1941 the head of the american jewish confederacy held a press conference it is a great irony of history that this press conference releasing the views of the holocaust was not held by any official

of the united states government the reason was the state department did not want to get involved to these controversial information of the slaughter of jews but throughout the war it was an obstacle are a sticking point* to the extent he had to override his own state department and ultimately the secretary to the treasury to go around to late 1943 to get the refugee board established to help rescue the imperil jews of europe which most had been slaughtered in the holocaust breckinridge was brought on

after the a break of world war ii franklin roosevelt prior to the outbreak had been very generous of the committing choose to the united states you could that override the quota system that had 25 for 30,000 because only congress could do that and was isolationist if they went to college there would have cut it and agree let's been tens of thousands of refugees from greater germany then rolled toward to breaks out now the biggest thing is revising the neutrality act to aid the allies with nazi

aggression. and also to have a major aid program in 1941 came late and also interested in uniting the country because he knew we would get involved in the war and he was worried if we put in the jewish refugees they would plant spies among them. with a separation from within aided and abetted i think it was exaggerated in retrospect but not i'd like an 11 back in 2001 so the united states and roosevelts used them as an instrument

with down to a trickle and was clearly anti-semitic because he is a forced out of the post but not before a he shuts down jewish refugee immigration to the united states. >>host: professor allan lichtman america first, what was their involvement of jewish immigration to the united states? >> favor not primarily concerned with jewish emigration that was formed during the of war to prevent america from getting involved even if britain was about to go down they said america shed not get involved under any circumstances.

and their famous spokesperson that other than charles lindbergh. september 1941 when america was still not in the war he gave a very controversial speech in specifically he cited britain and the jews so now they were presented in the forefront by the chief spokesperson for america as a primary force for pushing us into the of war there was a lot of anti-semitism in america he crossed the line the support for his position sputtered 15% and there were poles at

the time that showed the american people were not blaming the jews the very few who were trying to push us into war so somehow thinking this was a jewish concerned with the roosevelt administration was always worried about that so they were constantly attacked for being too pro jewish some said they were pulling the puppet strings of the roosevelt administration but in retrospect they were unduly concerned about this backlash. >>host: after a the holocaust press conference that became more publicly known, how did that play out? '' was the reaction? >> it was covered by the

press you been stories from the newspaper record but none of the mainstream press put it on their front page they covered it but not on the front page in part it was not the official press conference but rabbi in the state department did not want to be involved to put its on the back burner. this was late 1942. sorry, did i say 41? it is 42 after rework forced into war and the administration really did not want to get deeply involved in this issue particularly the state department the other problem was we had no troops

anywhere near the killing grounds of europe and in fact, we had no troops except in italy on the continent until june 1944 and did not secure our position until later in 44. >>host: that said, after the war roosevelt the eyes april 45 was there a change in policy at all to the european jews? >> not so much the holocaust was over. >> but the establishment of a palestinian state? >> ultimately that was a hugely controversial issue eleanor roosevelt who was not much of an advocate for jewish issues during the war becomes a major advocate

after but the state department threatens to resign if chairman supports the state of israel ultimately he does come out to support the state of israel and immediately recognizes the state of israel and becomes a hero even though earlier he was criticized to be anti-semitic. i think fdr would have done the same thing he was strong on the establishment of palestine when he was governor he issued a statement saying he supported a jewish homeland in palestine he opposed those with innovation policy

and constantly tried go back channels to pressure the british to modify the white paper and spoke out in favor of a jewish homeland at the end of his life, he is gravely ill and traveled to the suez canal to meet with the king of saudi arabia to persuade him to except the jewish state in palestine to offer incentives and got absolutely no where for that and was gravely ill so much he was operating on there of instead of flying back to the u.s. he goes to the

conference to meet on pakistan and -- palestine spanish how many were able to get to the west? >> well over 100,000 were able to get out of germany in to the united states. particularly during the middle to eight -- late years after roosevelt's reelection and the outbreak of world war ii maybe tens of thousands because roosevelt did do things. he eased the peace the restriction blocking the refugees from coming and second allow those on the temporary be set tuesday so his executive action save

the lives of over 100,000 jews. >> what is the reputation? >> it has fallen into to extremes one is the abandonment of the jews or worse on the other hand, fdr was the great savior but both of those are wrong he was far from perfect but was far better with the political opposition our work shows that fdr was not

monolithic as the extreme works would have us believe but to identify for separate roosevelts the first was concerned with reelection to do little or nothing to the jews just like african-american he did not one new deal programs but after the reelection roosevelt did the lot and use to be some restrictions to organize a major conference but it was his initiative to organize a major conference on the resettlement of jews around the world he chose to let american attention -- countries and he has been excoriated from turning down its mission and passengers aboard in 1939 who were

denied entrance but yet roosevelt initiative allowed between five or 6,000 jews to reach cuba before they change policy with respect to the st. louis and the administration worked with the relief organizations to find safe havens for all passengers and this is before the holocaust people thought it was written in france and belgium so the whole story of the st. louis has been badly distorted then you have the third roosevelt after the outbreak of world war ii imagine if they had gotten in there would have been a disaster to undermine the top priority to prepare the nation for a possible war

and immediately for a to the allies as they said the tanks to the british there'd be no israel and jewish state but then you have the final roosevelt who sets up a war refugee board and personally tries to use diplomacy to get the jewish state in palestine and ultimately evil was stronger than the forces of good is putting greater prairie on the killing of jews and a

good did with this terrible war you cannot point* your finger at anyone it is all of us. >>host: talking to american and percy professor allan lichtman about his most recent book published by harvard university press, a "fdr and the jews." you're watching but tb on c-span2. >>host: you are watching booktv on c-span2 at american university of washington d.c. talking with professors who were also offers. joining us now is professor richard stack his book "grave injusti