which required him to be very attentive to the commitments that were made by the nation. in the 17 70's we didn't make -- and -- and we didn't have a lot of statutes on the books. but would you not say that one of the lessons of washington's experience is that the

commander-in-chief has a constitutional obligation to take seriously the commitment the nation has made in conventions like the geneva convention and i might also add the convention against torture. the statute in cumbers the statute of crime and so on and so forth. see absolutely and i think washington was very eager to catapult this into the realm of nations and it was important to him that he sort of saw the united states as a shining way of democracy and the public that would abide by principles so i think it's definitely important for the commander-in-chief to be looking at the commitments that we make. >> others could?

more questions? speeches, opinions about canada? [laughter] [inaudible] >> she wants to make a speech about canada, her youth. >> i spent many summers canoeing in canada and singing every morning oh canada which is a beautiful and it's for that reason that i've made it a point in junior high school of studying the history of canada and why i happen to have that little -- so thank you. >> one thing about canada. [inaudible] there was this young lady, young lady of the evening they called her.

she was going back and forth from boston to the american side, the "american lion" and the reason why she was going back so often it is that she was carrying letters from the british to the american in the army. washington's army so they caught her through some trickery they did but she would not tell them who the american person was that she had contact with. she refused to tell them. and a number of accounts said that washington and some of his staff spent the night with her and in the morning she divulged to the person was. she was brought to a confession and wouldn't really explain. she was proof against every, everything we tried. i think it brings up a really

good point about how washington saw torture as something that should rise above and to get past the barbaric wars of the past and raise their level of conduct. as the revolution wears on he starts realizing and saying i am morally opposed to torture but i'm even more morally opposed to not saving american lives in that is when it comes down to if i need to do this to save american lives that would be historic. >> i think the library is telling us we should bring this to a close. i would like to announce that the director of "zero dark thirty" will do the movie version. [laughter] [applause] >> thank you.

we are live from the 2013 annapolis book festival. it's an event in its 11th year at the key school in maryland. here is our lineup today. in a minute we will have a panel on "maryland in 1812" and that we'll take a look at the future of urban development and american with peter beilenson and alan ehrenhalt. rajiv shah undressed akron and john nagl or necks and they will have a conversation about the war in afghanistan followed by a discussion of whether women can have it all or are ready to with sharon werner and hanna rosin. our live coverage of the annapolis book festival concludes with mickey edwards and rnc chair michael steele and they will talk about the state of american politics. that's her lineup live from catherine hull at the key school

and now here are ralph eshelman and james johnston looking back at maryland in 1812. >> my name is edward papenfuse and it really is my pleasure not to moderate because i don't think this session really needs moderation but to actually introduce our two panelists today. we are going to be talking about their works and then we are hoping to get a fair amount of discussion and questions from the audience. please forgive the frog in my throat but with all this warm weather we seem to have gotten a lot more allergies around. the two books we are going to be talking about today, one is written by ralph eshelman and a friend of his called in full glory reflected discovering the war of 1812 in the chesapeake and another is a book by james johnston entitled the history of

the african-american family. both are extraordinarily wonderful works beautifully written and engagingly written. one deals with the sort of general overview and history of the war of 1812 as it affects the opportunity. it not only tells you the stories but it takes you to the places and helps you to envision it through absolute extraordinarily lovely illustrations that were commissioned for the work as well as drawing on contemporary illustrations. james johnston's book is about the journey of an american, an african-american family from a muslim context in africa to a slave ship that brought that individual to annapolis on the georgetown much larger context but ultimately the family journey all the way to directing education of african-americans in the city of alton moore to

the present. both books are wonderfully done and i think you will enjoy hearing about them and hopefully you will go out and buy them if you haven't already and after the session you're encouraged to meet the authors and get your books signed. i'm going to turn things over now to ralph eshelman to speak and he will turn it over to jim and the land will open it up or questions. >> good morning everyone and ed thank you so much for mentioning that i do have a co-author and that's very important because we formed a great team. curt kumar is a a major country richer this particular book that has an unusual title. "in full glory" did, discovering that war of 1812 in the chesapeake. i don't know how many of you recognize where the title came from but "in full glory" are the words of a gentleman in the name of francis scott key that ended up in a song that we call our

national anthem. that is where that came from and if you have an opportunity to read the book you will better understand how we came up with the title. i think it's very appropriate that we have a session here today on the war of 1812 because we are right now in the middle of the bicentennial celebration of the war of 1812 and is not also appropriate that we are at the key school because francis scott key played a little role you could say in the war of 1812 and has left us with what i would regard as one of our greatest icons and those are the words to what is our national anthem and that is the maryland story that has national significance. this book is really the result of key efforts. there is no way we could have had the illustrations here and the maps without partnering with other people that helps pay for it because this look is full color all the way through.

there is over 65 commissioned pieces of art in here that have never been done before and you can imagine when you start to do that kind of thing it really escalates the cause so i would be remiss if i did not acknowledge the support we got from the maryland board of 1812 commissioned and also the national park service chesapeake gateways program as well as private funding. without this book would not have been possible at least not in the way you see it here today. the other thing i want to make clear to everybody is that because it has been subsidized the book only sells for $24.95. to get a book and total color like that is pretty amazing and the other thing i want to tell you is all of the profits from the book go to a restricted funds that will be used to help ain't taint the interpretive signage toward a starred spangled banner national -- so when you buy the book you are not supporting ralph eshelman

but supporting a national trail that will help people better understand the story behind what is the "star spangled banner". a little bit about the book. it's not met to be a scholarly book. it's meant to be of look to capture people's imagination as to what really is the story of the war in the chesapeake. even though was largely funded by maryland we could not do that job without including virginia and washington d.c.. so it is look i would say that covers the whole waterway of the chesapeake bay even though it does concentrate i guess you could say on maryland. i am really proud of the book for several reasons. it has gotten many good reviews and in fact there is one individual if you go on amazon and you look at the reviews that have been given merit says that if you're only going to buy one book about the war of 1812 and

the chesapeake this is the one you should purchase. that is the best kind of review i think you can get that the other thing i'm proud about is that this was truly a team effort. it was not just a birds comer row and ralph eshelman efford but two distinguished artist one was jerry embleton who lives in switzerland who is actually english but moved to switzerland and if you have ever done or read any books put out by the osprey series which is a military book this is the guy featured in most of those so we were fortunate to have an artist like that but we also have a maryland artist switches richard schleck. richard has done many illustrations in "national geographic" magazine but also the national park service throughout the united states, another very well-known artist and then the individual that did the maps for the book bob pratt is the retired or of the

photography "national geographic." you can't just get great people like that unless you have sufficient funding and so that is why i want to emphasize to everybody how fortunate we were to have the funding from our partners to help make this thing possible. i think at this point i would turn it over to jim that we really do welcome you to ask questions and if you don't then we will tell you what we think about the chesapeake and slavery and all that good stuff. >> thank you ralph and thanked the key school and all of you for coming. i want to say i read ralph's book and it's a very good book. i highly recommend it. i do history all the time and he is a good book. "from slave ship to harvard" is a true story of six generations of an african-american family from a rifle here in annapolis in 1752 through harvard in 1923 up until today.

i will speak fairly briefly and cover three things today. first a quick run through the book and a six generations in second i want to introduce the family of the fellow who went to harvard. they are here today and the rest will get here before it talk about them and then i want to talk about the significance of the book. the first generation was this man. his name was yarrow mamout. he and his sister were sold on board the slave ship ally should in the river in annapolis on june 4, 1752. his portrait on the cover is painted by charles nelson peeled the portrait painter who did seven lives of george washington and interestingly enough charles wilson peel was a little boy living in annapolis the day the slave ship came in and he met, a few of them met 60 or 70 years

later when this picture was taken. this picture was yarrow mamout as an older man living in georgetown. the next generation was jarl's knees. she was one of the first african-americans to win a lawsuit in washington d.c.. also in that generation was jarl's son and his daughter-in-law mary turner. mary turner when she got married to his son her name was mary turner subeleven and these people here today are related to her. she was the midwife there in western maryland. the third-generation of the family included mary's nephew simon turner.

he was born a slave near yarrow and joined the army and the civil war and fought in the civil war and the fourth generation was simon's daughter emma turner. she was born after the civil war and the first in the family to get a college degree. i want to dwell on emma and her pictures in the book. these women here knew emma so that short of span of time that goes back to 1752. emma married a minister and she married a minister named robert ford. they settled ultimately in baltimore. they were the fifth generation. their son was admitted to harvard in 1923 and graduated in 1927. it had been 175 years almost to the day that the slave ship brought yarrow to annapolis.

i'm going to introduce the ones that are here and i think they're cousins will come later. the six generation includes robert turner ford's nieces cynthia richardson. stand up. denise and emily willis. [applause] they just walked in, great timing. stay standing, no, no stay standing. alice it is robert turner ford's daughter and robin who is too shy to stand up is his granddaughter. [applause] you can ask them questions too. they are marked ticket of time. "from slave ship to harvard" and let me give the last point about the significance.

"from slave ship to harvard" is the first time in my knowledge that the family was traced from the slave ship to descendents living today so that aspect of it is unique. of course this family was just exceptional. and while this book tells the story of this one family there is more to the book than that. i call it a case study of racial history. it places the families constant struggle to succeed and excel against the backdrop of a tobacco plantation slavery abolitionists, the georgia men which is a term i found. they were the slave drivers who would take slaves from maryland and virginia and take them to the cotton plantations in the deep south. i covered the slave drivers too. the protections the families and the african-americans received in the civil war amendments to the constitution, the failure of the separate but equal approach to education and finally the civil rights movement and its

achievement and what it did for african-americans. through this one exceptional family i've tried to narrate the story of race in america. thank you. [applause] see what we would like to do now is just opened up for questions from the audience and i'm simply going to take my privilege as moderator to ask one question of jim who started talking about the legacy and the giving voice to the african-american community going all the way back to the origins of slavery. one of the things i've been intrigued i is you are talking in this particular book and now a group of slaves even though you focus on one family. in particular one of the things i found intriguing about looking at the history of slavery,

muslim, black muslims are generally well-schooled and they are generally well-schooled in mathematics. one of the things that is rather interesting about the pattern you are referring to in terms of the person servant is that server and is entrusted with a lot of responsibility generally collecting debts, keeping track of money and dealing with things so i was wondering the fact that he is probably, already well-educated and particularly in mathematics so that is what i was curious about. >> thanks ed. yarrow mamout was educated in africa and the way i know that is because in the national archives there is a deep that he he signed any signs in arabic so he could read and write in arabic and in fact he spoke at least three languages. he spoke were lonnie and he was

a good muslim so he could read the koran and he could write in the koran and then of course he could speak english in a quiet poetic way. he was the body servant to his owner who was the beale family which was a prominent family today in maryland and have this responsibility to do things. his first owner was an engineer so he learned about engineering. before today's session we were exchanging e-mails. kummerow islam follows a lunar calendar and yarrow measured his life in a lunar calendar. i discovered in researching another african-american i think also was descended from muslims who call themselves the moon man and he would predict your future based on a lunar calendar but batman also fought in the war of

1812. so he was a figure in washington d.c.. in the book i also trace wars going on in africa so there were lots of muslims who were captured but muslims were captured in those wars and sold into the slave trade. i believe on the ships that brought yarrow there were a number of other muslims and i found muslim names and wills and people who were living back then and a small muslim community both in georgetown and washington d.c. and maryland. these people tended to be as ed suggested educated in africa. so in fact more educated than the people -- >> one of the things i look at is the question of what the african-americans brought to the american world was this whole business of an accounting system. in the 19th century one of the scholars began looking at the

eastern shore and how they abandoned eastern shore. they kept running against an accounting system used in arabic in origin. the idea of course is that slaves who were brought into the country often ran and they ran to the comfort and the support of the andean community. so you find trails of interaction and ways in which systems are developed that can be traced back to african art. yarrow himself in later life once he was free was loaning money to plague merchants. he obviously knew enough about both the law and business and money to handle his own finances. >> routh one of the interesting stories is sorting out what happened in the war of 1812 and the role of the african-american community and the fact that the

british came and issued a proclamation to say that anybody who comes to us can be free and may even get a piece piece of land. all of a sudden instead of getting the able-bodied 19-year-olds what did they get? >> oftentimes they got elderly people that were a bird and quite frankly to the british. just to kind of go back a little bit when the british put a blockade on the chesapeake bay that was in february of 1813. keep in mind that war had been declared in june. england did not declare war back. they kept waiting thinking that the united states was going to realize this was a big mistake but the united states never did that so ultimately england then declared war also in the united states. the first thing that they did was to put up a blockade across the chesapeake bay. why would they do that? they really made a lot of sense.

they had a assad. maybe. they wanted to bring the war right to the feet of where the american government was to have the audacity to declare war on great britain. it was to bring it here. there was another reason and that is if they could destroy the economy of the chesapeake bay to people in the chesapeake would try to sue for peace or at least tried to convince their politicians that we don't want to have this war. what is the best way you can destroy the economy of the chesapeake bay and that is to destroy the money crop. the money crop is tobacco so when the british came in and raided a lot of these plantations if they couldn't take the tobacco themselves, which they often did and shifted back to england because it was very profitable, they would earn it and that would hurt the economy. but if you left the slave population next year they could replant.

but if you offer to the slaves their freedom and you take away the workforce and tobacco is a very intensive, labor-intensive product then what is the plantation owner going to do? they know there may be earlier instances but we know on march 10 of 1813 it's the first instance of where slaves escaped from plantation owners and boarded british ships. that is only a month after the british came here and declared a blockade. during the total war we will never know exactly how many slaves came but we are talking in excess of 2000. when the slaves came onto the ships think about the burden it created for the u.s. and the navy. that meant they had to shelter, clothes and feed those people. what did they do?

they begin to build a station on the island and that is where most of the slaves went and that is where they lived. there was no room for them to be on board the ships and most of the military force that was in the chesapeake were essentially living on board the ships. that is why they built the operations in tangerine island. there's a fellow by the name of allen taylor. he is a great scholar and probably the book that most of you might know about is the look entitled civil war in 1812. he is right now doing a book on slavery in the chesapeake during the war of 1812. i've been very fortunate to get to know allen and he has taught me a lot about what happened during that time. the most important thing he taught me is that the last that escape for the navigators of the night and what he meant by that is that if you were a slave you

essentially were working from sunup to sundown. batman if you wanted to go visit friends or possibly even your wife for some of her children that might be on a neighboring plantation you had to do that at night. you became very familiar on how to travel and what were the deer trails in rabbit trails the british realize that so when the slaves escaped and got their freedom they turned around and offered their knowledge of navigation of the night to the british. imagine if you are a plantation owner and lo and behold one morning here is the british standing on your doorstep and with them one of your former

slaves. that has happened more than one time. there is actually a quote from the gentleman who is head of the militia in virginia who said that the slaves essentially have now become the pilots on the rivers and the navigators for the british to attack our plantations. another thing that the british did that is very interesting, if a man escapes and gets his freedom on board the ship the british would allow that individual to go back and bring the rest of his family if he so desired. that is an incentive because when that word gets out that means that not only am i getting my own freedom but i may have the opportunity to go out and get the freedom of the rest of the people who are in my family. so when the british ship would show up offshore on the plantations to the plantation owner, that would be a terrible sight. to them that would say there's a great chance that i am may lose

my tobacco crop in may suffer damage from burning and who knows what could have been? to the slaves it was just the opposite. this was an opportunity for freedom and the british got so sophisticated on this bed at night they would put a lamp on their ship which essentially was welcoming and saying to the slaves this is where we are, come on in. now think about this. if you were a young male and you were in reasonably good health you would be offered an opportunity to join what was known as the marine corps or the colonial core and what that meant is that not only could you have your freedom but you could be given a uniform, you could be given a weapon and you could serve in the british military. you could go from one day of being a slave to another day

being someone who is was in the military with uniform. think how proud somebody might need to go from that to another level. >> in the end the british to follow through with their colonial marines. there's a whole torsion of the island of trinidad that has been settled by those former colonial marines who were given their land and eventually given a place to live. at the maryland state archives with your project with three groups of people who served are in a war of 1812 and were african-american. we look to the slaves that escaped the only authority established almost 800 documented cases of slaves escaping from the british and we have traced the lives of by and large to canada and from canada they're on. we are also interested in another aspect of the history of slavery as it relates to opportunity for freedom because what does happen is those african-americans become

familiar with working on the -- find it's relatively easy to get a job a poor chip. during the war when all of this commerce was been intercepted by the british there were a number of ships large numbers of ships that were captured by the british and all the sailors were taken off the ships and given two choices, either go to prison in england or join the british navy. most of them decided to go to prison because they knew how bad the navy was. what happened was they ended up at dartmoor prison ultimately and we trace the lives of those people from maryland who end up at dartmoor prison. and the third group we are really talking about to join the british forces. i think we have a few documented cases of african-americans african-americans who were killed fighting with the british and the assault. when we begin to sort of look at this whole pattern of the

participation of the whole community in the war of 1812 we are not only interested in the captains of the militia but also the people who served with in that war. see i would just like to add something because you made an inch singh, and that is about to former slaves that died but there is another story that not a lot of people know about and that is the slave who ran away from a plantation in prince george's county that belonged to colonel ogden. he did not join the british. instead he went to baltimore and he had a like complexion were apparently he could get away with possibly being considered a white man. he went to a family and he ended up joining the u.s. army.

so here is an escaped slave who doesn't go to the british, joins the u.s. army and as he sent? he is sent to ft. mchenry and he is there during the bombardment of ft. mchenry and he is wanted by shrapnel from one of those exploding bombs that he wrote about in the "star spangled banner" and he died in a public hospital about 10 days later. so he gave his life to fight for country where he was a slave but the story gets even more interesting because when he joined the military there was an incentive for you to get an immediate cash bonus which -- bonus which was known as the bounty. in addition to that if you serve the full extent of what your obligation was me signed up he would be offered property and that is generally land that would be out in western maryland. when this guy died, you can imagine the former slaveowner sues to try to get back the bounty property that was supposed to go to the slave and

the court said the owner had not done enough to try to get his slave back so therefore the heirs of this gentleman fred recall was to get the property. that's a fascinating story. >> i think what that does to show something that is prominent in your book which is this enormous complexity of relationships between the white and the black community. i watched and i'm going to do it today too, everybody look at the person on your right and left and look at the room and we see we are different race. i've told audiences this, that we thought about american history and black history but we also have to talk about our shared history because i think what happened was, history happened with all of our ancestors at the same time. when the war of 1812 happened it affected both blacks and whites but the problem the past was we

only covered the wide aspect of history and what i try to do in my book is cover both. i not only talk about what happened to the african-american families but in fact the bell family that owned yarrow originally, they first came to maryland as a prisoner of war as a slave in effect and yet despite the fact that they were slaves they turned around and fought the slaves. ralph said it was the tobacco but it drove the whole thing of american slavery. if they wouldn't have been for tobacco there would have been slavery in america. we think about the cotton plantations in the south. it was quite different here in maryland where there were free blacks and slaves living at the same time and this particular family number of them started and ultimately finished life as free people so it's a more

complex relationship than we think. >> you can find in the court records too that african-americans could win and your particular case. nancy is picking up on a debt owed to yarrow and this is much later. >> yarrow's niece was a free woman. i think she actually freed herself. >> this was all before the civil war are just so we are clear on the timing. >> so when yarrow died in 1823 he had a loan out to them and the man and the man quit paying and eventually the property was secured and eventually they foreclosed on the land and alone was good on and nancy went to court and she said wait a minute i have first rights to that. there was a complication in d.c.

fund that is african-americans and attack no black whether free or slave was allowed to testify so she somehow are there had to when a lawsuit without testifying. and she won. she had a good lawyer and she won but the claim was levied against her that the law did more than just prohibit her from testifying, it prohibited her from recovering at all and the federal judge said no the law doesn't go that far. african-americans are entitled to go to court. they may not be olds testified that they can sue in court and she was with one of the first to win and collect some property that yarrow owned in georgia. >> we have about 15 minutes left in our presentation and you will know we are being recorded and broadcast live on c-span. we'd be happy to have questions from the audience. if anybody would have a question please go to the mic and we will take you from there. does anybody have a question

that they would like to bring to the authors? >> if you want to ask a question, otherwise we'll just keep talking. >> as you all are thinking about it, yes please, go to the mic please. stand at the the mic and raise your question please. identify yourself. >> and my name is dan lincoln and i have a question starting from what you have just described. history castor shadow over effectively one of the things you're talking about, the impact of slavery on the state of maryland because we are so close obviously to the chesapeake and obviously at the beginning of the civil war there was an issue as to whether maryland would go to the northern or the southern side and there's the whole history of lincoln and beyond that, no relation by the way. so the question is whether this

item you are talking about and several of you have discussed it with the release of several slaves had an impact in your opinion later on when he came to the evolution of which way maryland the maryland would go in releasing the slaves? did it diminish do you think the dependency on the slaves that allowed maryland eventually to go to the union side? >> it's a good question and i think in maryland, in maryland one of the things that happened was that tobacco started failing and therefore the economic rationale for slavery started failing and that happened around 1800, 1790s. so you see in maryland that especially in western maryland where there never was tobacco,

the culture threw up against slavery and the people of western maryland didn't own slaves. this family, their ancestors had been western maryland. some were slaves and some are not that the economic rationale for slavery it just didn't work ari well. he so you started getting into western maryland a lot of people who didn't believe in slavery. they were not necessarily abolition us but they just didn't care one way or the other. it was not economic the feasible there. on the eastern shore where there was still tobacco slavery was very pro-south up until the war. >> something that i would add that is tangential to your question but it's important, if you look at the statistics of what region of north america suffered the most during the war of 1812 it will surprise you that it was the chesapeake.

and maryland suffered more than virginia and the patuxent river suffered more than any part of maryland. that was because there was so much, so many slaves were taken off and so much tobacco was burned and so many plantations homes were burned that if you look at the newspaper ads in 1814, 1815, 1816, 1817 you see farm and plantation after farm in plantation that are for sale and literally the population of southern maryland decreased because of all of the deprivations that occurred during the war of 1812 so slavery was a part of it but i would say the primary reason for that was because of the intense ratings that to place here by the british during that war. >> i'd like to go to the center

of your question because it's rather interesting one. one of the pressures -- the maryland remained a slave state until november of 1864 when the new constitution is put up with this whole question about what keeps slavery alive and well within maryland and what sort of pressure does it apply in terms of the position the maryland takes with regard to the union is a difficult one to sort out. i think what is true is that the war of 1812 creates an infrastructure for the richard of vacation of slavery throughout the united states. the war of 1812 is andre's and a very clear outline of what the country is going to be and also the opportunity for expansion of what is essentially called manifest destiny. what happens in the upper chesapeake is you have the surplus population. you have the surplus population of african-americans that are really not needed for the agriculture that's predominate

in the area. they there are two paths that are followed. one path allows people to work on their own and to hire themselves out. maryland had the single largest free african-americans in the united states during the civil war. part of that has to do with the role that baltimore plays in the other part of it was maryland became a breeding ground as a collecting point for selling slaves. baltimore one of the darkest periods in baltimore is the fact that they were the center of the slave trade to new orleans. there's a very good but called cash for blood which d. tailed cargo after cargo slaves sent around to new orleans for sale. so you have got this ongoing sort of tension in the state and you have regionalization.

slavery on the eastern shore is a very complex dynamic. when we look at those african-americans who petition for freedom, you will find in the lower courts the first years of petitioning for freedom and queen anne's county tell account in north chester county where they feel is fail is where they appeal to the higher court and the reach edification so i think we have to be careful of how we characterize the niche or slavery and how it works but at the same time realize the war of 1812 is a transforming period in american history. it's the downhill slope as far as the institution of slavery is concerned because it becomes much more legitimized. in jim's book he has this quote of what happens in maryland when

they change the laws. >> it was after john brown's raid. the maryland legislature that day yarrow came in the maryland legislature took up a bill to make it more difficult to be free. they made it more difficult but they still allowed it. there were various things that allowed it but after john brown's raid in october 59 on harpers ferry the maryland legislature said we are just tired of this. no one is going to be freed anymore and you don't this family did? this family before the law took effect went and got themselves free so everybody in western maryland all the blacks in western maryland that could were buying their freedom or getting their owners owner's freedom before the law took effect. humanity takes over. >> it is possible then to

reflect on john brown. >> yes. >> we have another question. we only have about five minutes left in the program so this gentleman was that of view i think in and we will take yours. >> i want to applaud mr. mr. johnston's book because i think he did something that many people don't make do and that is operate through relationship of difficult circumstances to some surviving possible accomplishment. we all are african-americans like myself have come from slavery. and we are affected by slavery and much too often we hear about slavery was no association to the end results where people

have come through extraordinary circumstances to accomplish great things in spite of the difficulties and i sure perceive that because we need more of that. most people think from a perspective that slavery has hurt people so that they can't rise above it. i think we need to understand that and tried to make that more when discussing these types of situations and i won't take any more time. >> thank you very much. >> i agree. it's well said and i don't want to add anything to it. >> we had one more question i believe. >> of course there is a lot of attention on the war of 1812 and the chesapeake and the public television has put something on it already one on the were in chesapeake of 1812.

there were two minutes of how it had a transforming effect on the nation because before the war of 1812 people consider themselves first citizens of their state and secondarily as a citizen of the nation and washington burned and we had the great fight in baltimore with the british and this had a transforming effect and i wonder if you gentlemen would talk about that for a few minutes? speak it is an important point you make and i'm glad you raised it. what's the big deal about the war of 1812 because if you look at the treaty it's the status quo. everything was taken to where it was before war was declared so you can argue that neither side won but there's another way to look at it. prior to the poor people did not have a whole lot of confidence in their country. when you think about the colonies you would refer to yourself as a marylander or as a virginian. even when we became a country and we got her independence you still refer to yourself as a marylander or a virginian and

you rarely refer to yourselves as a citizen of the united states. we were struggling country. but after the war of 1812, people kind of had a newfound confidence because they said my golly we actually survive this war weather was right or wrong with the most powerful military country at the time. more importantly than that not just the internal effect that the external effect. other countries began to look at the united states with greater outlook for the future than they had before so you could say it was a pivot point in american history and what was the era after the war of 1812? it was the time of good feeling. it was when people had pride in their country that they didn't have before that so i do think

the war is very important for us to celebrate not because of the wars that were one of the battles that were lost but because of what it did for the country. and think about the icons that came out of that war. not just the "star spangled banner" ,-com,-com ma not just the words that are in the national anthem but think about old hickory, think about old ironsides and think about don't give up the ship. these are all grayed icons that came out of that war that most americans don't even realize were part of the war of 1812. hopefully the bicentennial will help them to understand that. >> does anybody else have any questions? >> my name is cynthia richardson and i'm one of those persons whom jeff johnston has introduced me to a whole lot of my family history. i was surprised to find and today i'm learning every time i hear him speak and every time i hear anybody.

>> and i am surprised to find out that during the war of 1812 and a slave who joined the military was given a bounty if he lived through the force and the bounty included landed western maryland. so i'm sitting there saying how did lacks get into western maryland and how during slavery they owned land? might grate grade grandfather and his wife henrietta stands and her brother lived on 67 acres that they owned and jim

johnson sent me the map. he introduced me to so much history but i see that i wonder also, there were the harrises and all the people that i learned to lived in western maryland and they own property but yet they were slaves. it said she belongs to john gray and children were slaves in the family so i'm wondering whether or not back in the day some of their ancestry had actually gotten this land as a result of a bounty by serving during the war of 1812. what do you think, either one of you? >> it's possible. a lot of these records could survive so it's possible that you could do some research and determined where some of these bounty lance came from and where they are today. i personally haven't done that

research but is certainly possible it could be done. >> before we and i want to tell a story. cynthia said we never thought we were special and i said your uncle went to harvard in 1923 and you didn't think your family with special? that is the kind of family they are anyway. >> i think it's important if you wouldn't mind my stretching the fact that what the family does is to to come back and beans are mental and some of the best education after offered to baltimore white or black so we want to be very clear about that and an emphasis on education which you can go all the way back to yarrow. he comes with education and utilizes that education to the best of his ability as much as he could within slavery to free himself so this concept of the

emphasis upon education and the need to really broaden our horizons and understanding through education leads to a very important thing throughout the book and relates with all of you who are with us today so thank you very much. >> thank you all. >> thank you. [applause] [inaudible conversations] that was ralph eshelman and james johnston talking about maryland in 1812. we will be back in a few minutes with more from annapolis.

>> we are at the action conference in washington d.c. with the author of obama's four horsemen. david is the editor for human events and columnist for "the denver post". obama's four horsemen he talked about for shoes going into obama's second term. can you describe as far as? >> there's a tendency which is not just about welfare and food stamps and things like that but a general fundamental change in the way the people react to each other and government. it's self-explanatory but the problem is worse than people imagine. there is surrender which his foreign-policy chapter and it's not a neocon sort of argument but more of a view of how our

place in the world and what it is and abortion for the most part. >> so this book is being published now in march. how long did you have to put the book together and were using -- thinking of obama's second term or what was the timeline for the title? >> i didn't think that romney would win and i wrote that but i pulled us together rather quickly. i've been thinking about it but it's not a huge book. it is a slim book but it took about one months to write. >> currently with our budget situation what are your thoughts on that? >> i think there is an ideological divide in washington and it's hard to come to consensus are in agreement on what to do and we are in bad shape in that sense. i like the paul ryan budget that came out recently and i'm a fan of a lot of ideas in the budget i think republicans need more ideas on that platitude so i'm

happy the direction the party is going. >> what do you want people to know kuwait from this book in regards to the second term? >> the policies mattered not just about popularity but it's about policy and policy can be really destructive. i am sort of a libertarian about the world and that is my viewpoint so i think the book warns people that these problems are a lot worse than they think and they don't just go away and we have to do something about it ..

>> the author of spee net one negative spin masters was the real news? >> stories about the economy , foreign policy you were what prompted me to right to spin masters over the bank by the attack and in the days of paul of it was clear rather than focusing on the story of foreign policy failure in a president who had promised to the approach the muslim world and was feeling said

to significantly destroy a the al qaeda but yet they weren't acting up and admit evade net romney did not handle that situation well and said the wrong things but instead there was a real policy story about the guy who runs the entire foreign policy apparatus of the united states but robert novak used to say that a reporter is someone who was sold his soul for a good story but it turns out when the story might make barack obama look bad or his presidency looks like a failure the reporters lose intellectual curiosity and within news media especially from d.c. 90 percent of liberal that votes 90 percent democratic it is very representative of america as a whole they will

miss a lot of stories by definition with the inability to see and failure to be interested. >> you are from "the washington examiner" did you take issue the way your paper cover the campaign? >> for the most part we covered it on the editorial page bhilai wanted it to so i can only blame myself if we miss anything but we are proud of who we are but there is no reason we should be the only ones to find obvious trend of the labor statistics we were the only ones to rightabout and in some cases the only one. everyone is aware the economy is lousy but while we are about to turn the corner, people don't realize there is labor market suppression for people our age. 25 to 54 years old they have not regained a single job

june 2009 that group has lost more jobs there are fewer of us working today than 1997. and all of the jobs recovery are 55 and older. why hasn't this been written? i can tell you one story that talks about the pollsters but that young people have no opportunities today in not finding jobs and not recovering or moving ahead is an enormous story that was completely messed during the election and there's a reason we should only be the ones to see it. >> thank you.

[inaudible conversations] >> good morning welcome to this second session of the annapolis boat festival. my name is charlie flanagan i will be the moderate -- moderator. but we will go over logistical details. if you happen to have a cell phone please turn off. secondly, when they get to the second half of the program we will open to your questions. because this is broadcast please step up to the microphone and ask your question from there so the people at home can hear you.

it is my pleasure to introduce you to our to authors alan ehrenhalt in and peter beilenson. author of "the great inversion and the future of the american city" when of the nation's leading urban colleges the contributing editor at governing magazine and lectured at the school of public policy. a of the author of the united states of ambition ambition, though velocity and democracy. he has contributed to "the new york times" book review, the "wall street journal." in 2000 he was the recipient of that political science association nicholas adams award for distinguished contribution for the field of political science by a journalist who lives in arlington virginia. immediately to my left, a

peter beilenson the author of "tapping into the wire" wire", the ceo of the evergreen health cooperative health care model authorized by the affordable care active spent 20 years prior in public health leadership having served as howard county health officer and health commissioner. he has received many national and local awards for his policies including the award from the american public health association, innovator of the year award from a daily record. he received an undergraduate degree from harvard the m.d. from emory school of medicine and the masters of public health from johns hopkins. in his book "tapping into the wire" he is its episodes of the hbo inner-city drama

to talk of the misconceptions of drugs and crime and poverty in the public health will to address these issues. know i will ask each author to say a few words about their book and we will start with alan ehrenhalt he will speak about his book "the great inversion and the future of the american city." >> it is good to see you but i thought i would start with the story and i will tell it as quickly as i can. in 1979 there is a great snowstorm in chicago more than 20 inches and the city was paralyzed to the point* where the trains would come toward downtown and were so crowded by the time they got to the inner city stations the poor people could not get on and the trains would pass them up to go downtown. this caused such an uproar

that the incumbent mayor lost the minority vote and was defeated. this could not happen now. the reason is not because of the efficiency of the trains, believe me. [laughter] or climate change and the absence of snowstorms but because the people coming in from the all sports -- outskirts would be the affluent professionals and chicago has changed that dramatically over 30 years. you could call this gentrification and a lot of people will and with everyone to call it, chicago in my opinion since 1979 has undergone changes beyond gentrification were like demographic converted.

-- conversion. chicago is looking like a european city of 100 years ago blunden, vienna or paris today. people who have economic ties are increasingly coming to live in the center and the immigrants are living on the city limits or beyond. this rarely happens in more than one city at a time and in fact, i have described is growing in other affluent areas like washington d.c. land to the boston minneapolis even new orleans after hurricane katrina which may be a surprise. and this has major implications for the place of society in my main point* is we're living in a moment that the massive outward migration they characterize

the second half of the 20th-century is coming to an end and we need to adjust our perception the cities and suburbs and mobility. why is demographic conversion taking place? one is that the industrialization of the central city there's hardly anything made in the center of town any more. manhattan may seem like as a greedy place hot but the new york of today is nothing like that that is why you could have neighborhoods like soho better affluent and much desired. why else is demographic conversion taking place? you remember how dangerous the streets seemed and there

was said new ways of somebody walking behind you and you thought they could be a mugger. they still could be but the statistics are so far down with most central cities. to eliminate that fear of the power of the anchor people that are moving into the central city. where do people want to go? the center of the riot corridor. that does not bother them moderately more dangerous but not that it makes sense or the h street corridor they don't think much about it. but i would argue in this is the least tangible the of values and demographics are

different. i have it done teaching over the last decade and with every class i taught i would say were with you like to be living in 15 years the city your severs or a small town? almost nobody said severs in the vast majority said i want to live in the city. i did this five times and got consistent responses i am not claiming to be scientific public opinion taker but it was enough to make a difference. not to say that some of them want to be but that is what they expressed in it was meaningful. let me give you statistics. in 2020 according to the demographer the number of

families raising children in their household is close to a 25% in this country. in the 1950's half were raising children. with the increase a single person households is twice. in 202019% that is a figure we could be confident so when you think of the demographic changes or the rise of cohabitation the smaller size of families and more healthy and active adults in later years it is hard to escape the notion we managed to combine the elements that make

demographic conversion not only possible but likely. moving to a society where millions of people with substantial earning power or ample savings have the option of living where they want many will opt for the central city many will be forced to live in the suburbs and be 40 miles from the city. no doubt the significant number of people and some of the affluent would want to live 40 miles out. but equally important people trying to make it in from the middle class will try to find from the annapolis income and property values are in the in thing rapidly meanwhile their declining or if dancing slowly that is just a matter of statistical

fact we stock about of the metro region could be viable of dying at the core there will be of a time not too far in with in the future talk about a successful inner-city can thrive on the stagnant suburbs that is what i call the great inversion and that is the subject of my book and in the interest of time i will stop there and we could take up these subjects of the question period. >> now we heard the first of our cities and urban legends now we will turn to something very different to ask dr. peter beilenson to talk about his incredible booker t. levin. >> how many of you have watched the wire or parts of

it? about half so most of you know, what the wire is. i have not watched it while it was filmed partly because we did not have hbo and partly because the mayor at the time would constantly talk about it in cabinet meetings had difficult it was to watch it and how bad it made baltimore looks so i took him on his word and as a commissioner and under him and o'malley but around 2010 i decided to watch "the wire." i don't like gratuitous violence and there is a huge amount of violence if you have seen it but with recent it wasn't just gratuitous i watched all 60 episodes in about three weeks and my

wife would finally say you have to shut this off now but it became clear that many episodes was a good lands on which to shine a light of major issues of policy from crime and education and homelessness to violence as a public-health problem and poverty, etc., etc. so i put together a class called baltimore and "the wire" mostly because it is popular material with an extensive waiting lists but it played into book form and i know we will get to question so i will leave it but one of the things that we look at that

is clearly obvious in though wire is this is a description of many air bin area is not the only description of a city budget truthful major facet of many cities. lot of lessons from what we learned can be transferred to other jurisdictions. as opposed to those that said it made baltimore looked bad i would argue a public health, one of my colleagues is here and when you have a problem and candid with it is when you can do something about this so i argue "the wire" shines a light on many problems that to many people have pushed under the rug for too long or moving out to the suburbs and we need to shine a light on these issues.

if you have not seen the show you or if you have you saw a cohort of young people left adrift mainly because they live -- live extremely chaotic lives but another aspect it is incredibly important to remember place matters but where you are a product and the resources available for you and your family and your colleagues living around to make all the difference in the world how you and the of results of their lives so they could potentially talk about that and the issues these kids face growing up in the inner cities today. fortunately it think there is a happy balance between the inversion and relatively extreme poverty but unfortunately we have not

yet tipped to the happy medium it is still relatively impoverished and a difficult city to manage. so we will now into the question and answer period. if you have a question step up to the microphone in the center aisle to ask a question. but the best part of attending you get the book but for me i can ask the first question and i will use that privilege then we will follow with your ears. your book "the great inversion and the future of the american city" has analysis of urban

revitalization and you identify critical elements that led to the success of several cities. based on the elements of success you have identified key and a revitalized durbin and corbie the product of designer does is simply merge when the right circumstances are present? >> it is primarily a market phenomenon. cities with there right demographic are more likely to undergo demographic conversion one of the most component is the downtown jobs based. miss the atlantic, and minneapolis and boston, san francisco there is a large downtown jobs base and there are people that want to be close to where they work and go out close to where they work so to create that based

on amenities with public policy is difficult. there has been a lot of attention to the geographer and an author talks about with the creative class to make your city into a more prosperous city is to attract the creative class the professionals and academics and entrepreneurs and those who have money and want to live in the center. there is a grain of truth but i would say that attracting the creative glass works if you have a critical mass of vitality in the inner city to bring them in. if you are flint michigan and to start by saying we have a lot of gay people into the city and we have a flourishing downtown i think

that is very difficult to do. i would also say there are things that you should not do one is not to bring interstate highways through your city also best not to preclude exclusionary zoning to make it impossible to have mixed use projects one of the mantra is of city planning should first we do no harm than good this city's did in the '50s and '60s was harm to themselves you have a fighting chance but there is no magic bullet >> now to ask a question of dr. peter beilenson i think in "the wire" you get a sense of the people locked

in the struggle but here's a passage that says the ultimate politics of "the wire" the real politics that goes to the heart as well as the mind is the simple and complicated influence. if we're honest with ourselves rica done only see the truth of the characterization's invented by a us one negative for us what we can see them as people. so why can't we get up from our television to look through the window to see and feel the world going on around us in the same way? watching "the wire" we see the need for real change in society. waters of practical ways we can help make this change have been? >> "the baltimore sun" at

them actually helped me to right that and my idea but his prose. part of the problem is the flight to suburbia is people cannot see it outside their window and as they see on tv through the nightly news is a constant stream of violence and people overwhelmingly think why can't they pulled themselves up by their bootstraps like we did it cetera, etc.. it is a much more chaotic life for flocks and families in the inner city like baltimore and cleveland better not the family resources and support that their parents or grandparents had when they could move to the suburbs. and there is no one solution.

i don't think we can have a complete inversion if you push out people who have lived for years and years and are the heart and soul of cities in america now where my daughter lives to push out of the indigenous in population and has been there for years i think we have long dash need to have mixed in calm but there is a forum vegas tool for a healthy community that is access to health care and healthy foods and activity and a decent solid public education system and save and affordable housing with good public safety many cities have problems with lead poisoning it causes

education of one negative educational problems but it also leads to violence and baltimore had a huge population that have lead poisoning and forth livable wage jobs accessible to the adults did you have to do all four things. much easier said than done but how many know about the grand prix in baltimore? yes. i would argue it is a known money loser and has been both fears that if the amount of resources put in by the corporate headquarters and the mayor's office not just financial but the immense amount of work to bring of grand prix to the city streets that we lose money, it's just tough

fraction of those resources could be brought to bear with the fourth legates' tool we would be in much better shape so looking at the incomprehensibly to do things with the mix of population to get people who have gone to the suburbs are particularly important. i will close with one thought baltimore city is in a particularly bad predicament because it is its own accounting and jurisdiction. l.a. city has its problems but it also includes beverly hills and wealthier areas of the county that the tax revenues helped to support. baltimore is its own county and we host most of these

nonprofits that don't pay taxes so this city constantly has a higher tax rate that pushes people ought to the size of we have to have suburban people understand what affects the city will affect them as well. if were financial reasons of the state has to take on certain responsibilities are the issues from baltimore city visitor betty's best interest. >> i will invite you to step up to the microphone. >> thank you. my comment is thank you for reading and it is interesting it has to do

with humanizing the problem and that is something peter has done for his whole career whether a heroin addict or as a case worker. vague you for everything you have done. and it is also a great book but i have a question for allen and it is a phenomenon i haven't -- observed that nobody goes to work anymore. there are retirees but a bunch of working people who stay at home. so if you could comment on what the effect of internet and telecommuting. >> it has surprised almost everyone by not taking off in any spectacular way. the number of people, it was assumed we would have a substantial percentage of

workers to a committee by this point* and it has not happened. the numbers are much lower. i think there is a much larger point* involve that while there are people for whom any given point* this is the ideal solution, people who have the freedom to work with others in a physical way to be downtown mostly want to do that the number of people for whom telecommuting is a satisfying way to do a job is much smaller than we thought not to say it won't grow but we have the technology now for people to work from home. what is more common is someone would have us a job that the stated duties are five days a week they will stay home maybe one day a week.

we will see a lot of that but that to say i will not come into the office but for the younger people is a surprisingly small number. >> i was glad you referred to the work of it does not talk about the larger concerns that the creative class but also the panel seems to take the inversion not as inherent a positive but it has its own benefits to look and act when

inner-city is it went from to where they are now and talk about the suburbs had you project the anticipated problems now moving to the severs such as transportation and infrastructure sin city centers are a bit different than the suburban areas with their own challenges. >> what we saw with the 2010 consensus is a substantial increase in poverty with most of the inner and middle range suburbs. although still love it went up by quite a bit into the teens around 15% which they were not used to be for.

-- not used to before but with changes there were social programs not well developed until a few years ago will be a much larger aspect of the budget to cause some fiscal strain. for decades we have talked about the mismatch of people living in the inner city but not getting to all the jobs. but they will be living in the suburbs and it may turn out ironically their closer to the places them when they lived in the middle of this city but simply seems to be a matter of logic. most of these don't have good transportation but that

is another challenge they will be forced to do with and not only to expand the public transportation system but they will have to change them. that is doable. >> could you apply your themes to the city of detroit? with the new emergency manager and now going downtown to the you old warehouse building will they have the and version there? >> day trait is having a boutique in version there are a number of artists and other creative people who have this -- decided it is

dirt cheap and it is grungy and in to make into what chicago is now? it does not have the industrial base there just are not enough jobs in the center. so i think it has serious problems that will be difficult to overcome and likely is to cut the budget and the emergency financial manager will do that. you mention in new orleans, strange things happened after hurricane katrina and we may not be positive of all of them but they went with the enormous majority to what is more like a middle-class city

because the move to other places so new our lives had close to the french quarter to get the neighborhoods some of the housing had to be repaired and not enough people living there. and to your lens has had that only the influx of middle-class neighborhoods but entrepreneurial and scientific innovation. just in the last couple years it has changed from a city that was identified as one of the most bag mint to what is one of the more creative cities in america. that has a lot to do with the historical and architectural image and legacy that new orleans

has, music and a, a food, is moving in the right direction the city can promote it if not invest millions of dollars expecting it to change overnight. >> but to direct the next question to peter beilenson there is a dynamic where a new population moves into this city and it displaces the endemic social problem and does not fix them in any way. in your take on baltimore will not go away but they could be addressed? >> anyone familiar with east baltimore development initiative with the push

north of there and it is supposed to be mixed in, but that tears down a large swath of these baltimore was pour african-american neighborhoods trying to relocate people and has not been done well and there was a program called moving to opportunity that look to move core population to areas of opportunity in the suburbs but avoiding a density of poverty hoping people bought into the middle class and in fact, although some things did tend to get better a very large percentage wanted to move back to the neighborhoods where they are from. that is true in baltimore and they are not available. so be careful about

displacing people especially those that are the heart and soul of that city for many years. second, as you bring in the happy medium to have enough income tax producers to generate the resources to duse four leggett approach you don't want all or nothing. >> next question? >> i have been hearing a lot lately how jobs have been permanently destroyed also for the middle-class people and will never come back because of technological change and outsourcing what

effect reducing fat will have another cities like that? >> the educational system has to address that whether the blue-collar cheney argues the pejorative term they have to switch that we have got to prepare people for the current marketplace the education system doesn't prepare people well and not everybody has to go to college but we have to have a pathway for them to earn a livable wage not just service jobs. we have to address the public-school system so there are plenty of new types of jobs with bioscience that do not

necessarily require a graduate degree that we're doing a poor job of doing that focusing on keeping truancy down and not generating kids that will be available in the near future not just the distant future. >> alan? >> i basically agree. i finished reading a book that talked about the declining number of percentage of americans who finished college. the prescription was we need to send everybody to college i am dubious about this and i think peter is right that printing up diplomas for the population that is the interested in doing college work is not the solution. is to do -- finding what

they want to do then educating them to do it to not make a college degree of panacea for the problems we've suffered in the cities and suburbs. >> ready for the next question. >> web prospects to uc for buffalo in your? there recently starting to make headway with the waterfront and a biotech center for years it has been stagnant if not declining to foresee any of these things like the waterfront development or the medical community to bring them out? what future do you see? >> i was there last fall it suffers from a lot of things

like the industrialization as well as any other city but it made a horrible mistake putting the university in the suburbs instead of locating in the center where it could have been truly of magnet for jobs in research and that was of a disaster but people are coming downtown. there is the high-tech sector. i thought buffalo was more encouraging than i would have expected. it is not a detroit life is downtown developers are investing money. i don't think buffalo is dead yet. people tend to compare it with pittsburgh and it was dependent on one industry and it left and followed the educational and medical development strategy which is more successful than any

other city in the country. birmingham is another. buffalo relies on education and medical institutions but ed glaser wrote an article dismissing buffalo as having no future. i think that is pessimistic. >> you think in my lifetime i will see this? >> let us all live long and well into the prosperity of the city's. [laughter] >> next question. >> my name is david and i was fortunate enough to live in both washington d.c. and chicago and i saw the large numbers of public housing that stretched over 60 blocks.

and also the creation of a notorious housing project and eyewitness of destruction and dismantling of both by mayor daley's son and people were told they would be relocated temporarily and brought back later on. nobody ever believed that would be the case and i don't know what happened to these people when the projects were dismantled and in washington and went to college there and came back and is absolutely amazed what has been accomplished.

with the southwest and south least -- southeast people are displaced that you will be brought back. what happens to these people? where do they go? i just never understood what happens to these people in d.c. and washington. >> you said you don't understand? >> where did they go, where did they move to? i never understood because i did not see them come back. once the housing projects were dismantled i did not see the people coming back. the second question is with baltimore i know they try to do something similar but i don't see it happening but

what is your view? what will happen to these folks? i don't see the same thing happening as sided with washington and chicago. >> i can give a couple of quick answers then i will yield to peter. the best guess is chicago is 30 percent of the people living in high-rise public housing has been relocated and the rest have been and are free to seek other places and there is very little solid evidence where people are going whether a public housing project or a neighborhood the cities in general don't come near realizing the promises they make to housing tenants when

the housing is demolished. washington is an example of the city that has changed to a great extent to to the preferences of mayor tony williams who wanted areas like the eight street corridor to be developed to be prodded on favorable terms of there are cases when the market is favorable with something to sell you can accelerate the process of the demographic and version. where do the people go? prince george's county has almost 1 million people and d.c. has 600,000. so that is the number one place and where does the displaced go in chicago? that is not enough to account for the number some go to the southern region or

atlanta charlotte, raleigh that we don't have the precise answer. >> and baltimore was the same and a, one of the main things was said tearing down of the high rise building one of the point* was having institutions to work with people and if you may remember when the highrises come down we had the same thing have been in baltimore with the big outbreak of asthmatic reactions they did not think of the particular matter flying around the similar to washington and chicago they tore them down and promise people to be relocated.

there are a few places that is actually a very pleasant place but 50 years 60 percent of the people have been scattered and section 8 housing vouchers are very hard to get. there is more couch surveying and people moving now to baltimore county the really not a great amount of detail where people actually go. >> we have time for one final question. >> i am very new to the area born and raised in anchorage alaska. coming from a place from anchorage and speaking completely from what i have seen the last

year-and-a-half which is the big city there are so many things i was proud of about make community a lot of native people and it is communal and i just read that we have over 100 different manages spoken in our elementary school so to move to a place to see more people like me washington d.c. and i said this looks like alaska. [laughter] it is an interesting observation be coz that gentleman said where do these people go? and for someone who was not from here i wish people who were making decisions would care about the people who used to live here for generations and are now

displaced to other counties i guess i don't have a question but i would like to speak on that. to really come across people that care about those they are displacing or is it excuse me a decision 90% how we get money to come back or remove the bad people out or the crime rate out and bring in those that have jobs in our district? >> i would say as an introduction that if you want to go to a place where the school sees 50 the languages in the classroom go to suburbs in your montgomery county, that is where the immigrants are. the old stereotypes that

they would come and settle first in the inner city than for there out has been completely broken. they go to the suburbs from wherever they were they go to montgomery county or fairfax. not necessarily prince george's. there is a separation between were african american saddle and where immigrants leave the city. is there a concern when people move back for those they are displacing? not primarily although people bill say i moved to 14th street because i want to be in a diverse area. then you're better off in the suburbs that is where increasingly where the diversity will be. the center of the city will

be divers racially but not as much as class terms that you will see a large middle class african-american population of living in the city with a desirable parts but not a lot of poor people and they will be moving further out. that is a foregone conclusion. >> and it is not just about black people but all of us to make up the community. poor people and rich people and the homeless man is just as important as the judge. that is my question saw how you say we will rebuild a community but you push the community out? >> that is a profound question and we have one minute left. >> 20 years of being in those rooms although not

necessarily making decisions i have found some decent people who really truly care about the people that were displaced and public education and i have come across far more who have not and i would argue public financing is the best way be coz the way that the campaigns are funded people who have the many the downtown interests are those to contribute and that is where the decisions are being made it is not a panacea but more are coming into office without feeling fe zero others to do the right thing. a little bit like pollyanna but a good way to end the conversation. >> a wonderful and to a great conversation and i invite you to join our author's next door to buy a copy of their book and thank you for being with us here

today at the annapolis book festival "the great inversion and the future of the american city". [inaudible conversations]