is there a conflict between the idea of these men in this pristine wilderness and the idea of an indian population that inhabit the area who had to be dealt with before you could do serious exploring. at the same time, and we were talking about this, jim and i, before the battle began. the same thing happened with yosemite. you have to believe that this place for your putting a marker down in discovering was absolutely pristine. no one had ever lived there. it was too inaccessible. so flattering to the gills of these men that they could brave that terrifying wilderness. but it was based on the fiction. >> and that fiction in both cases is that the native americans had never lived there and in the case of yellowstone the fiction on with the park and

the idea of the park continued to be based well into the 20th-century was that the indians had been so eager and superstitious that they had been terrified of the place. in fact, go into the historical record and they were in and out all the time. hunting, sending out were parties. it would crisscross the from the with the buffalo grove seasonally. it would go into a sitting kraft tech kraft arrowheads. that of sitting cliff functioned as a demilitarized zone. and they went there for six reasons. in many cases their records of various tied to a tree in the hot springs as separate locations where they could be in touch with the spiritual dimensions of the world and the other world. so i guess my point in this book , and nothing there is a lot in common, especially with the book bryan has coming out now which is above sea level rise and certainly when we talk about

the environment. as the title of this panel says, along green view. it is absolutely about how the complexities of human decision making, human settlement, individual ambition, always contradictory emotions of people have shape not only what the environment is, we impact it and give them access. but how we think of it to my we formulate the idea of the wild and now often that is based on these often very self-serving tropes that we invented. so the environment is about history, human action. and in this but what i tried to do is to show how some of those crosscurrents work. he said sell thing boils down to the final decisive battle but against the indians to have been an extremely aggressive northern plains tribe who had been the ones first to master horses and had arranged absolutely right

through the yellowstone country hunting in the fire all, for example. once there were dealt with the exploration could continue, but one last cautionary note goes back to the question of prison. i think it is very easy when people look at this book at first glance to say this is an expose of the dark side of yellowstone. it's not. often oversimplified. if you deal with men in that time in that place in history from part of that complexity for almost all, they would have been pumping out editorials for the east coast papers denouncing the brutality of the army. when they got their violence became woven into the up to recover their lives. it has dark elements in it but it is not an attempt to reveal the dark side.

it's also very learned man, people who spent five or six months a year in montana temperatures which can go way below zero. a log cabin eating nothing but bear meat, scared car reading shakespeare, leading the works of shakespeare. they longed for the seasonal a rival of the theater troupes so they could see performances of macbeth and really -- romeo and juliet. extremely complex. and the result that they created out of all these mixed motives is what we have today. and with all of that history behind it it remains as miraculous place. we descend on it every summer to the tune of about 2 million people. these hiking boots and gps units . in this still a miraculous american creation. they just had a lot of strange and largely unknown stuff woven

into it, into its creation. [applause] >> a year ready? >> mine is a short story after those. i will start with the different national park, the acadia national park where my wife to be took me. in the early 80's her family had been going. i am from michigan. i had never been there at all. i went there and fell in love with the place and hurt, married air. we used to run up and down this road to the kind of a main road, across the street which was the park foundry. and i would go up there in the

morning. i saw in this one will know this -- these graves that had just -- there were all over this matter of. the vine said crawled up. this magnificent old birch tree and others. there were straggling in killing the birches. they had so completely covered the matter of the you could not see the brook that ran through. i have a great idea. at but c'mon going to help the national park restore its pristine wilderness by going to war with these grapes. celotex and slippers and a cut the big old stems that were above mentioned have thick that liberated the birch tree. then started moving around with the grapes to clear the way so i could hear it, but i cannot see it. in the process letter that have violated at least five federal

laws about desecrating national parks. and something else which was startling to me at first. i did not know what the grapes for trying to tell me a first. and what i realized and will allow the people who come and go up to the top of cadillac mountain and look out over what is essentially a big spruce forest did not realize is that the grapes were there before the spruce forest. and if you go back to the history, you find that. by about the year 1880, more than half of the island had been deforested. and along the edges any place that could grow hay or any kind of crops in the short growing season was used to create food for draft animals and food for people.

and i realized that there were some enormous changes in the land that had not really thought about. and then i happened to stumble upon william cronin's book by the same name, changes in the land. when i came back from asia in the 80's i went back to michigan, where i grew up. i -- having this in mind, i saw these enormous changes in the landscape or grow. it was full of small family flowers in those days but no in the 80's to amend we used to hunt pheasants. now in the 80's it was new forest. it was forced that sort of had taken over a lot of farm land that had not been farmed and sentimental to, 30, 40 years. deere had sort of move again. pheasants were gone. and these were changes that i began to think about and to write stories about for the wall

street journal. and i stumbled upon a wonderful man -- man named david foster. and he said -- i said, well, why are all these forests here? about that we were killing all of our forests? cover cutting of trees. he said, no. the northeast has seen the greatest reforestation sense the mayan collapse 1200 years ago. in the last 180 years -- and i extrapolated a little and went to the statistics and found that, in fact, something like 60 percent of the east, by plans where the trees run out is now forced coverage. and it is 86 something percent. an enormous reforestation that has gone on right under our noses, but i don't think it we

saw. and then the other thing that sort of coincided with that, with that thought in my mind was coming home from asia or i have been covering a lot of words and tomorrow and so on for a long time. going back to michigan and seeing all of these tear and doing a little bit of research about deer hunters. in those days chair population was growing, and there were spreading all over the place. in those days something like 12 million amecans walked out of their back doors in october, november, december, armed to the teeth to hunt deer with something or other. and did a little mad then discovered, that is more armed men power than exists at that time, something like the 14 largest armed forces in the world combined.

imagine if 12 million armed o percentage walked out of their doors in a lot of countries in the world, there would be potentates' had it for the bunkers. i mean, but we -- we let kids out of school to go deer hunting with their fathers. at least in pennsylvania and some other states like michigan. but i also realize that this was not working. the deer populations are growing . dear car crashes or growing. and that this management system that had been set up after this era of extermination that george was talking about that killed off not only the indians, but most of the wildlife in this country, after that was put in place and the north american model of wildlife conservation was adopted and said that, essentially, everyone owns all the wildlife. market hunters, commercial hunters could no longer go out and kill everything to sell to

me markets and have makers and palo stuffers. furriers and so on. so it all belongs to everybody. and if you obey the rules we will let you take advantage of as a renewable resource, a form of recreation, whether you want to kill other tickets picture or -- but that the system had broken down by the 80's with this particular species. and there were other species were the same thing had happened. canadian geese come to mind. and then, the other thing that happened was that the forest came back. the wildlife came back. and then i discovered something that i have not really thought about before. we think of urban suburban and rural. and ken jackson to the book on

suburbs in which he said that by 1960 we were about one-third urban, one-third suburban and one-third rural. by the 2000 census an absolute majority of the american people lived not in cities, not on working farms, but in this vast middle model that our cultural. and that sprawl is where family farms used to be cut donuts around the towns and cities. and the wilderness and the forests were rowdier summer. we all live out there, i say to my in my book. it is very likely that in the eastern third of the united states where two-thirds of the forest of americans, the continued -- contiguous forced in contiguous u.s. are and two-thirds of the population, when i assert is that it is very

likely that more people live in closer proximity to more trees, wild birds to land animals in that part of the country than anywhere in the world at any time in history. and in journalism we say that sentence is weasel worded because what does closer proximity mean? and what it means is that we don't live in these populations. we live out their scattered among all these things. and we are accused of encroaching on wildlife habitat, and that is why we're having problems with these animals, and that is true, but it is only half the story. those animals are also encouraging our habitat. what i say in the book is because our habitat is better than theirs. our habitat can hold -- the biological carrying capacity of sprawl for many species is much greater than it is in an

unpeopled, rural area or forest. ofrood, protection, hidinge places, and water and other things. we grow these enormous supplies of food, which we -- which we, in the case of beer easily mollen throwaway. we put out lots of food for all sorts of other creatures, and we have created a mess. we don't know how to deal with that because the other leg of this stool in my book is that i say over the last century or so, we have become denatured. many of you have heard richard's book, the last child in the woods about children's nature deficit disorder, as he calls it. this has happened slowly. it started with writers like jack london and william long that theodore roosevelt called major fakers.

that put -- we go through how we began increasingly to get our views of nature digitally and on screens rather than hands-on a stewardship kind of things. and so we took ourselves out of the storage of business. we took our cells out of the prediction business. huge swaths of the white tailed year's historic range, which is that eastern one-third of the united states, it's off-limits to human predation, and there is all sorts of evidence not to suggest that the biggest predator of white tail deer since the end of the last ice age is not wolves and cougars but human beings. so -- and i had messages is wildlife do a study. two rules which we all think of much. you cannot discharge a firearm

within 150 feet of a hard surface road in massachusetts or thin 500 feet of an occupied dwelling. massachusetts has a lot of rose and a lot of people. it is the fourth most dense -- per fourth most densely populated state in the country. those two laws alone, state laws, not including local ordinances put roughly two-thirds of the states of massachusetts acreage off-limits depredation by the white tailed years major predator. i've thought about calling my book, what do want. i say in my talks, this is what they want. the biggest predator of whitetails in a lot of places in the east is some, you know, our cars. in so we have created this mess. it started with all sorts of good intentions. we've brought these creatures back from near extinction in

some cases demand we now have a situation where we don't know how to deal with them. so what w do is fight amongst each other over what to do, if anything. i say we divided up into species some people want to save year. some people want to kill the year. some want to save keys. some people want to get rid of them. some people want to save birds from carol katz sensible want to say perrot cats from sheltered deaths and so on. and, anyway, that is so i got to this book. [laughter] [applause] >> we're going to open up pretty soon for questions. you might think of questions you would like to ask. i thought first would let the panel asked questions of one another to see if you have heard the book described here.

>> i am just dying to read your book. [laughter] i don't have any questions. >> i want to ask brian how on earth anyone manages to put out to books in successive years. i think this is nothing short of breathtaking. >> is not a question. it's an observation. now you do it? >> in no way, the various books i have done, and i will openly say, he is the finest of the driver had. the kind of intersect. the books on climate and water, in a way, have relevance to the other one. the book, blue and white and come bottom-up. richard not answer my question. you're saying what the books are related. your unsaying humanists to write two of them. it is the magnitude of the production that blows my mind.

>> i guess i have an addiction. i don't know. it just happened. >> someone was last, last panel, described the process of writing books. you said, you shut your thoughts away in a room. you don't see anyone. the commune with your computer. directors as bt. >> i guess that's pretty much describes the life of most of us. >> it makes the cry new course. >> well, i was just thinking about wonderful editors. i did not realize thatt edis were wonderful until i became one. then i had to stop -- i had to stop using this quote that i used as a reporter for the new york times and the wall street journal. whenever an editor would get a hold of my copy and shredded. cut six paragraphs of it. i would "adlai stevenson and who get this line from an upstate

new york newspaper editor who said in editor is someone who sores the week from the chaff and press the chaff [laughter] >> interesting. so, we have microphones here if you would like to address the panel. the only thing we ask is that we keep questions short so that we have enough time to meet the needs of questions. i see a couple of fans down here. the microphones will be coming to you. so ready? >> yes. >> go ahead. >> i want to say thank you to the panel. such great descriptions. my question is the major view describes essentially a problem that uc, an imbalance. my question would be collected each of you address one or two ideas that you would like to see implemented that might right the imbalance that you talk about in your book?

>> were looking at you. >> one of the other things that david foster said to me was that we used to think that nature balances itself. and maybe over a thousand years that might happen. navy will happen in certain areas within the shortest time spans, but the one unchangeable thing about nature is it is constantly changing. it is constantly out of balance one way or another with itself. and we, of course, have kicked it out of balance for go for zero during the course of our history. but that does not mean that we can all learn from our mistakes and do it right the second time. abcaeight back to gear, for example. i have a friend who is the deer problem consultant in pennsylvania. he makes a lot of money.

every town, every township, every county that i know of in this country has a problem with one species are another. deer takes up -- he says that if you're going to use taxpayer dollars to hire a sharpshooter to a cold your deer herd, a deer herd that, robert, in the woods would be healthy at ten to 15 per square mile. in bucks county i have seen townships with adr 100 or hundred and 20 per square mile. too many. some people say, no, there's not too many. but what he said about pornography, no less see it. the same thing is true with year. anyway, he says to me if you're going to hire sharpshooters, have been trained local hunters, usually some police officers or firemen or even some residents are hunters.

train them to charge you to do the job. and then instead of -- instead of donating the deer to a food pantry or to a landfill, sell it at a local farmers' market and recoup some of the expenses, which is a really elegant solution, i think. i mean, this is local, not industrial, antibiotic, free. it is just -- and the der around me don't get any exercise cause of their early tender. the problem with the solution is that it flies in the face of an axiom of modern fish and wildlife management that every state in every federal wildlife biologist has at its heart. that is that, we brought these creatures back by ending commercial wanting. ending commercial hunting and making family hunters or

pothunters abide by the rules, seasons, balance, so on. if you start this process, will it be a reversion to the dark cold days of commercial hunting? pretty soon we will be back where we were before. i think that it can be just as controlled and it can work just as well. i give a speech to weeks ago to the law of life management institute in washington saying that somebody ought to step up to the plate and try a couple of pilot projects like this to see if their work or how their work on the problems. but we could end of the demonizing these elegant creatures that are now, you know, called long legged rats. it is too bad. >> very shores more general answers to a more philosophical. i think one of the lessons that emerges repeatedly from episodes like the ones i described is the sense that people in critical --

throughout history, particularly in critical, defining moments of history, they believe that they are taking a long viewed approach about what needs to be done and, in fact, they're primarily driven by short-term failure to consider the long-term consequences. i and it an environmental magazine and work for an environmental organization that i think that the one thing that is common to almost everything that i work on is the -- you can reduce it to the desire for immediate gratification, but it is the consideration of resources, whether there would be wild life, whether they be precious minerals, whether a the fossil fuels as something that there is a constant imperative to develop and all sorts of language is invented to portray this as something that is in our long-term interest. very often it is not an end to learn that after the fact. a lot of people recognize it at

the time, but they tend to be drowned out by lauder forces. i want to get on a soapbox about climate change, but obviously fossil fuels is the classic example where we are persuaded because of the short-term apparent benefits it brings that it is a good thing and it is very, very difficult than the political process to think because a partially and to take a long-term view. it does nike you elected, for sure. >> you said what i was about to say. >> rate. we have about five minutes left, little less. i saw a question of rear-ended back. no? we have one here. the front. wherever. >> i will wait for the microphone. >> us try to get a couple of questions and requests. >> brian, how would i try to discover the oceans, barely learning how to fish.

you were stating how we lost touch with using our instincts on discovery, you know, the land verses the notion of a mallet is all one. how someone would try to get in tune with that. by mid the fishing? may be actually getting canoeing or something? >> we only have a couple of minutes left. so this is it -- >> i am deaf. my hearing is out of order. >> how would a person from new york city when the ocean the way some of these early navigators -- >> and a very short answer, go to maine and do some sailing excursions on schooners there. they do it, and do very well. does the best way. a magazine called wooden boat has advertisements of the spirit contact the main tourist board is a quick and simple answer. >> one very quick word. it is only a towel.

is that technically the ocean. they're free. the new york city parks department has kayaks' the content of the hudson river which is a magical experience and a magical way to see the city from a different angle. >> avenue. this gentleman down here in the brown coat please. >> that's great. >> if i can stand for this mainly because i have been sitting for too long. for brian -- >> can you please -- speak up. >> can you hear me now? feel like and a commercial. i will preface what i am saying. >> one minute is all. left to make it quick. >> i spent my living -- < a lot of time living on an offshore oil platform. you gazed out at one of those let's send it was me, but i became aware of the to mush in the legacy, very sophisticated boats. they had gotten this possibly because of contact with

navigator's coming, literally across the pacific. have you learned anythin those lines to bac. >> this is -- fiesta of causation from the polynesian and the 2-mile. no. it is based -- the theories that say this based on very fragile linguistic data. my judgment i think that the plank and newt is an indigenous development. it is a reflection of an application of the water where there was ocean water navigation were they built up the sides of dugouts. i don't think they got an in-depth study of the ocean wind patterns that would have allowed them. that got to south florida, which is another story in this seems quite certain. i think it is fun to think about, but it is not true. >> do we all give everyone a thanks?

[applause] >> i invite you to join is assigning area number one. we will be walking over there now and you can pick up this conversation there. thank you for coming. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> and you're watching book tv on c-span2, live coverage of the 18th annual los angeles times festival books help of the

campus of the university of southern california. gabba listening to authors george black, brian fagan. coming in about a half-hour or so, another panel, this one on violence and we will be covering that live as well. but live here on the campus of usc we're pleased to be joined on set by luis rodriquez. his most recent book is, it calls you back a man odyssey through love addiction revolutions and heating. it was a national book critics circle award finalist. mr. rodriguez, in your title, what does it refer to? >> it is mostly made you representative to where i grew up in the streets, addiction, it keeps calling you back. and it is a struggle to overcome it, astral to find some dignity and grace thrift, this girl to become a father, which is a really big part of my story, how my kids save my life, but at the same time was still too

fractured a broken to really be a good father. i had to learn. sobering up. being a father to all my kids. it is really the struggle of knowing that the madness will always be there and knowing how to carry your character and -- >> your first book, always running kamal was that about? >> the gang life in the streets of los angeles commanded cannot a year after the l.a. riots. people wanted to know was up with the gangs. i was the first one to write about the chicano, the experiencing things even though it is actually older than any other ethnic group. it has been very entrenched. think it was a board to hear that voice. also, the voice of redemption because it was not just about the gangs. it was about how i chased my life for leon panetta for i could get rid of drugs, it of violence and begin a life as an activist and the writer as i have been for 40 years. >> what does the terms economy? >> it is really the mexican descendant, we have been here

for so long. people think it is just an immigrant. constantly replenishing. several generations. we call ourselves to, partly connected indigenously. the people. they call them aztecs and took him back to something that in the 60's became vibrant, political, change. so is kind of like a decision to the sake of my live identity which also includes justice and a better country. >> solar you when you join the gain? >> i was 11 years old. i got involved in the most intense part of it. not everybody does. gains, neighborhood gangs. a lot of guys who were in it, around it. some guys get into a really heavy. get into heroin. i got into -- house in and out of jail, jamal. violent things including writing, including -- the return to give me for some murder the never -- attempted murder rose 17 taba was very fortunate.

as of people that the, the way in november. i ended up leaving the drugs from leaving the gang life and not having to do all the giant state prison terms. but it also compelled me to become really active for a better world, including helping people. having going to prison for more than 30 years to give back to those that did not make it to working in sobriety in recovery programs. all this by way of giving back toward i think i have been blessed with that i get through. >> you're right at 7i began stealing from local stores and markets. at eight teachers punish me for sticking pins into those students. whenever violence are humiliations' existed at home, took it out against my classmates. and although i have hard-working mexican migrant parents, my childhood and youth have been punctuated by an intense and hazardous street life. your parents stayed together.

you raised that to this part of. >> fund relative they actually had issues. but there were crime free, hard-working immigrants. but like a lot of them, that it not have a lot of time to spend with a kid like me, trouble kid apparently needed a little more attention. too much work, not enough connection coming coming from mexico and the culture that we were in his chair are to connect to kids like that kind was one of those that fell through the cracks. >> added you get out of the life? >> said mentoring. i have no hope. i had people who saw something in me. believe that somebody can help somebody come out as. yet to stand with them, stand by them. don't give up on them. eventually their own development will take them to the next part of the life. >> luis rodriquez is our guest. 202 is the area code. five kayfive 385 for the east and central time zones. 585386 for those of you in a mountain. out here in the pacific times and where we are right now on the campus of usc you can also

send a tweet. @booktv is editor and a parody can make a comment on our facebook page. facebook.com/booktv. it i want to read one other thing. this kind of gets into your political activism a little bit. you say that my mother stayed at home taking care of us kids. when she worked it was in garment industry sweatshops, including doing what was known as ps work. an industrial sewing machine wrangled into our small barrier home rented out for meager pay. she often labored into the wee hours traveling noplace each time her foot pushed the pedal. how did you get into labor activism? >> you know, i guess because of my parents to realize that something was unjust and the way the world. there were people at the bottom. there are people in the middle. and because very few people, and being and rinse nuclearized to this country, mexican got dark

skinned, people of color, we were at the bottom, and you knew this. even when i worked in steel mills and the other places there was always somebody at the bottom. there was a battle to get to other places like a skilled trades which were just opening up and i got into it. i was fortunate that i did get some, but it was just barely opening up. so i think it was always, to me, the country when it comes to work in jobs and to gets paid and doesn't. uns of making it doesn't. there are a lot of poor white people. so it is race and class. mostly class because i also recognize that there were white people also at the bottom and a lot of people don't recognize. so it became an issue more of class and actual race and even though race played a bigger role. >> is your story typical american story? >> i think it is far more typical than we may be imagined. a lot more trauma in people's lives, but this connection, lot more families that are broken that should not be. in a talk about the worst,

terrible, meet families to my good families that cattle because of the stress of life, going from one job to another, living in the world, the working-class up and down world can put a lot of strain of people, the connection they should have as mother, father, son, and even, you know, addictions that are so rampant now because now it is easy to get drugs and no call. it was happening for years ago, but not like today. i think all this is contributing to my story being more of an american stores a lot of people are willing to be a bit. >> one of the things the struck me your book, how many times have you moved to back. >> one hundred times. i can say hundred. and never stay too long in places. only recently in the most recent house now live of the effect of years. as the most of never lived anywhere. it's really did is now i feel, almost 60 years old and there finally getting self. and my kids are already gone. my two youngest was during college. now my fifth grandchild will be born this year. so finely i'm going to settle

down because it gets you in the morning. like the set, silver for 20 years and still it comes back. i am better added nine beckham and live better. think, what a waste of life just been so much time behind drugs now call. and it it really is a much better to find peace in yourself and help find peace and others. >> how many kids you have? >> for wonderful boys and girls. the oldest is 37. as you know, the book was really about what happened with him. he joined a gang. he get into prison, a total of 15 years. he fell into the same madness that i wasn't only the world that he is and is different than mine. now it's easy to throw kids away. no so many, things that i did 30 years ago, 40 years ago people get license for. and so i feel bad that he is in the world, but i also have to say he is doing really good right now. he is trying really hard. crabtree, sober to attract help other kids. lps days like that because you're going to go through

something hard, difficult, painful, they can learn and make something good and beautiful of the. >> what is the gang situation currently in l.a.? >> it's interesting. in a working at this for years. lowering game violence. this was the gang capitol of the country. if i ever have to deal what i feel intervention and prevention, people being involved in the street. and what to give credit to the al qaeda. for the first time since i've known them that work for people like us. it never used to. it never got into it. now they're opening the doors to work with people working for peace. i was the coalition meeting in the san fernando valley in which law enforcement was there. the children and families. artists, nonprofit groups, people like me. would you have that title? so many people bless to the community i'm the in meeting each other and saying, we have to work together for peace. >> luis rodriquez is our guest.

foul question before we go to calls. uses a picture of? >> a beautiful picture of my friend, joseph rodriguez. i don't know who this man is. and a steady is a gang member from the bay area. it's perfect. a guy tattooed. conceit is that this tree thing in his face. areas as baby. and with that baby makes a difference. deputy gibson to say, never going back to that of life college actually said to my promise. still, abandon my kid, as you know, two nephews later both mildest kids, was up there for them i should have been. >> first call comes from derek in emporia, virginia. in afternoon. please go ahead. are you with us? i'm sorry. we are not hearing derek got here in los angeles. let's see if the next caller is available. that is sarah in grand island

nebraska. you are on book tv on c-span2. hi. >> although. >> we're listening. these un request in. >> okay. my question is, the that respect. he says that there is a way out, and i was just wondering alkanet just be a way out when i have a field my cousin had been trying to get out. the further they get in life stepup, stepup commanded to beyond because there always wanting them. you know, i don't see how it's a way out. >> very good question. i think that the way and has to do with developing community. have a book called hearts and hands to create community. yet people the community. they need a careful attainment of adults to have what they're going through. aid to be given skills, knowledge and awareness. agree with her. if you don't have the resources

to make the jobs aren't there, trade and education, or going to lose a . really believe that kids are raised by a whole environment of all this and health and people come stepping up, mentors, guides to the teachers. when we see less of this is going to find kids in gangs and ordered to leave that they used to be. so really feel the committee has to step up. also, we pushes on the kids. you change your life, but you know somebody else. d'agata a data prison after 20 years, complete decent human being and what he had told him, that you have to give back in the is not giving back to others. >> coming on our facebook page. hello. would you ever consider running for elected office in california ? then he goes on to ask would you consider if running with the green party? >> last election for the justice

party. a smaller little party. i am not a politician. the only reason that i would ever consider running is to raise the issues. alterra but the big money. no one big money. i want to be in that kind of running, but i do want to deal to say what i think other people are willing to say, how we fill the gaps to malik to talk about that development of everyone to make sure that each one is : healthy. so that is what i am willing to talk about. the green party is a great party. and a lot of people in the green party. the party doesn't matter so much to me. is the issues in the movement to try to make this a better country. ♪ going on to say that your friend from pacoima. >> a bookstore culture space that we opened in the san fernando valley. it is named after my aunt who was a crazy, artistic, political person in my life or learned to love very much.

everybody talks bad about people like that, a crazy relative, but she really -- i think she fired a buyer creativity and craziness and a getaway. so we name this fur as well as a bookstore and a culture center. and we are very active and have been there for 12 years. all community has been supportive. all of the arts, writing, dancing, theater. we have a mural painting project. to me i love and believe in the arts. of course, believe that any political, striving to revive to include the arts and the development of creativity, inventiveness. ♪ well, you talk about a job that you got for painting a mural but did not do. >> a very important part because painting murals became one of those things that helped me think about another imagination, another way to grow, but i was still using drugs. unfortunately i think my connection to the drugs was hurting my ability to dvr this should have been. well laugh tracks and a lesbian,

early on. i started my first withdrawals in county jail and continued later, i could not pick up a paintbrush and it's hard to say why except that it was related to drug use. when i was on drugs are dual this stuff. now that i was often and hard time getting back to painting. my heart ended up becoming writing. that became my focus, passion. in many ways i found it. it just was not in the pending world. ♪ to rick -- who discovered you as the writer? >> i have to say that when i moved to chicago that was the place where they appreciate it when i was doing. there was a great poetry scene. was there when it was coming out. perfect timing. an amazing riders, published my first book myself. such a great audience that by then the press that later simon and schuster, a children's book press, lot of others have come around and build a starbucks. and abcafifteen books.

took that moment or was in the right place at the right time with pellets and publish the book which started the press which we have been doing for 25 years. now we publish all these great writers and poets. to me it was perfect timing in place. and then being discovered by people who saw the movement, important new voices coming out. >> the next call comes from valerie in idaho. please go head. >> hi, mr. rodriguez. can you hear me? >> hello. >> mr. rodriguez taqueria me? hello? >> man, we're listening. please go ahead. i want to say thank you very much for your buck. i really admire you. the fact that you survived alter your childhood and managed to get over all the things you're dealing with. i really wanted to set thank you so much. my husband who is deceased was a return to seven years. he was an alcoholic.

he is just amazing. i think your in the same category as him because he was a really great man. i just want to thank you you are now helping others. you are real inspiration. thank you very much. >> i appreciate that. i guess the message is that it is possible to overcome these things. it's just all be easy, we have to recognize that there is a way to get through all the addiction in the rage in knowing how to turn it into art, beauty, poetry, something amazing, even if your mechanic map you can turn that into an art. people have to of turn their pain and will listen to something that turns out to be beautiful and positive and impact to and the community. thank you for that because i am honored that you put me in the same category as your husband. >> mr. rodriguez, your book is available in spanish. >> there actually always. to so you know, have been working with gang piece. we just started libraries in 13

prisons. that book, it's the first book. the drummer for the doors as the donor. he has given us money to build these libraries. so the spanish version. some of my other books are also in spanish as well. >> right before we started a librarian from santa paula high-school in ventura county came up to mr. rodriguez and said, your book is the most : but in my library. you think of for that. >> i found out that my book is known as the most : but. what did you say? at thing that people want to read books and they have to steal because there's no place for them to get them, no bookstores in most of the poor communities. where i am mad now, we're the only bookstore for 500,000 people. i get it. another encouraging anybody to steal, i'm honored that people would take this book. were the people wanted to read.

>> right here in los angeles. >> everyone to talk a little bit or have your best chocolate that about how gangs can be converted from negative activity to positive activity. and some of the things that came up in my mind, homeboy, the bakery. if you could just talk about different things, not just hispanic gangs, black gangs, white gangs, how those people, those organizations might be converted to the positive things >> well, let me just add or say that one of the ways to do it is to care. what i do, and what homeboys says is what i call scared straight, not scared straight. you care, open up your hard and show people that there is humanity in them and us. sometimes the kids don't believe that other people care or that the people will stand by them.

they test all adults because why should they invest in the motion and adults the walkout when things thereof. what i try to do and what many of us do is hang in there, hang in there. go through rough times to the point that we're actually walking. not ahead of them, not pushing them go walking with them until the point that they can walk on their own. the idea is to give them the discipline and respect and structure to live their own life, not my life, not somebody else's life. the thing that is out to do it. been doing it for 40 years. part of the game the sentry's the came out of the stellate. i took part of their cribs and bloods, the latino. chicago, spent 50 years working with different things. nl internationally, guatemala, but also of salvador with this peace process which some people know, the most violent country in the world. another is the 60% drop in violence. it can happen. people could care. people could open up doors. weather is sustains itself

depends on whether we can get the proper alignment of government, resources, jobs, business, law enforcement, everyone aligned to keep the pace going. >> was he referring to? >> it's what father greg boyle created. good friend of mine. he did in east l.a. a multi-ethnic citywide program. eighty tattoo removal, mental counseling, treatment, drug treatment, give you jobs. seven industries that they get into. running their own restaurant, learning how the set their own businesses. they try to provide opportunities, but also knowledge and a connection that allows them tough to do something really meaningful. but just what people think they might need to do, but also not end up in the presence of the juvenile all and the drug life that most of these kids do. >> please go ahead with your questionnaire comment. >> thank you. before i ask, i have two

questions. please, the computer graphics people, please leave the telephone numbers up on the screens much longer than you do. not only on the weekends, but also on the weekday morning washington program. here are my two questions. i'm awfully sorry that i am neither hispanic or a former gang member. i hope you can relate to these questions. i am a former -- i was an artist as a teenager myself. [inaudible conversations] going back to my toddler years, i had a career in graphic design and disney type cartooning as well as modern art. and i thoroughly believe but also had to mental illnesses as a teenager. so i spend a lot of time among the members after-school -- i mean, and a program in birmingham's university of alabama birmingham quarterback power. speaking of that, there is a program in east birmingham

called studio by the tracks which provides after-school arts programs and opportunities for troubled teenagers and children with various united way type needs. as concerned as i am -- >> could you get to your question please. >> i'm sorry. i cannot seem to make these people about gun rights and gun ownership and so forth who in the debates ever since, you know, the shooting in connecticut in november realize that criminals getting their hands on guns and firearms comes from a completely different cause blowing up without their fathers and without other significant male role models as children. we have had decreased federal and state dollars for united way

agencies and public school boards after-school programs. -- >> you know what, we got your point. we appreciate your calling in. and louise rodriguez, if you could take what she was saying. >> i think what he's saying is you need every resource par rounds. you need to have proper connections mentoring. there is not enough money. most of the money seems to be on the back end. i say the back end, law enforcement, prisons, the criminal things. i think we're being disconnected and the traumatized. families and broken up, and we're not properly handling this i think it takes mental health assistance, a treatment. had nothing drugs, for example, should decriminalized. at the people need a help. it is costing billions and billions of dollars. so in many ways i'm saying, yes. it's extremely helpful.

have a book called rushing waters to rising dreams, how to transform community. i believe the chance for lies in communities. healing, art as finding a full person, the passion that everybody has in getting them to find the self discipline to meet that challenge of their own particular art. that is the work that i do. i believe in it, and that thing that is the resources. we will have less problems with guns and drugs and people building on the front-end. more the prevention actual intervention and to adjust to the end. >> to other current issues. gun-control and immigration. when you look at the gun-control bills that are being proposed the measures, those reduced gun violence among gang members to back. >> and not sure i care from the gun control laws of being put

up. i really don't think it is addressing the issue. i'm not saying there should not be a reasonable, peaceful, rational man policy. there should be. but i think it is the wrong end of it, again, the back end of it. what are we doing to connector youth, redoing that parents help guide and support. other returning about people who don't have jobs, need trading. new industries, the digital arts world. what are we doing preparing people to be whole and healthy. if it's not guns, ill use knives. if it's not my style use sticks. violence comes from broken is. what better address that and there should be reasonable, rational gun policy of and not sure that just criminalizing it, more people being put away. our community real ones that pay for it. a lot of people get involved with violence, but it is a poor community it ends up paying mostly for this. i get tired of the gun laws.

>> in it calls you back the rights to my can hardly wait to have a funeral like this come to have mothers crying, mommy's having girls missing the. all this love. that would be the best day of my life. >> a suicide connected to kids in this world. suicide, homicide. i was afraid to die. i was afraid to get a prison because that was just so cultures and me. everything that people think this experience with texaco on guard for. what we do is address why yang people are so willing to sacrifice themselves for very little. so willing to sacrifice their world and life and to be seen in this place of glory. i would rather die in this blaze of glory. there is no glory in it. what young people except that? that is what i want to address. why young people want to die. and i want to address why we're not there. our proper sacrifice as adults to give time to kids. is not a big sacrifice to mentor somebody, to reach out and just

somebody instead of knocking and out of the time. so i think that is what that is. .. i don't think that was ever going to go back to crime life but i wasn't dying to have a good relationship with the people. i didn't have a relationship with my father. i couldn't understand my