thanks for being with us. from l.a. this is booktv on c-span2. >> now on your screen is a for my face for those of you who watch cable news stations and c-span and its american university history professor allan lichtman who has just completed another book, this one is entitled "fdr and the jews." professor lichtman, when did a policy discussion about european jews begin in the united states? >> guest: one could argue it begins as early as the woodrow wilson administration. because of great britain issued of course it's famous now for declaration act in 1917. it said his majesty's government will do whatever it can to provide a homeland for jews in

palestine, provided of course that it did not violate the rights o of the people already there, trying to square the circle and leaving two decades of controversy. and woodow ilo the alur declaration. that was very, very important. and then, of course, franklin roosevelt's ascendancy to the presidency in 1933, almost exactly coincides with adolf hitler's gaining control in germany. and these two men, the democrats and the dictator would be linked for another dozen years, first in conflict and then, of course, in bloody wars. right at the beginning of the roosevelt administration discussions began over the persecution of jews in germany. >> host: who was leading those discussions in the roosevelt administration? >> guest: probably the leading personal of course was an informal adviser, and that was felix frankfurter, who roosevelt

on much earlier when he was assistant secretary of the navy in the early 20th century, and they reestablished a friendship when roosevelt ran for governor in 1in actuly ran against a jewish opponent, the republican. and frankfurter was very important and initiating discussions regarding the plight of persecuting jews and what the americans can do about it also important is this was the secretary of labor, frances perkins who roosevelt also knew a new. she was a labor activist in new york and she was a major advocate for refugees. >> host: secretary perkins, justice frankfurter, whether jewish? >> guest: frankfurter was jewish. he didn't, justice until later in the 1930s. frances perkins was not but

oddly she was attacked by anti-semites for being jewish. facing anyone who supported jewish issues was a jewish. roosevelt himself was accused of being jewish. people talk about president rosenfeld or rosenberg. and get a wonderful response. well, i'm not jewish but i think the jewish people are woerful and i would mind if i was. >> host: was the consensus of opinion about fdr among american jews transport at the time there was an absolute consensus of opinion among american jews. jews were the strongest supporters of fdr and his four campaigns successfully for president of the united states, jews were very important donors to the democratic party. and jews revered franklin delano roosevelt. and they understood him. they understood he didn't do everything possible. we can talk about that.

they understood he was vastly better than his political opposition at home, and vastly better for the jews than any other world leader, including winston churchill who talked a lot but really didn't do anything for the jews and was very bad on jewiigration, even aftrste concentration camps revealed. juice continue to revere franklin roosevelt. the real severe criticism of fdr policy towards jews really didn't emerge until much later, to critical books were written in the late 1960s. >> host: professor, was there an opportunity in the 1930s to change or to affect what was about to happen in germany? >> guest: it would have been very difficult to change the course of events in germany. hitler had his own plan for world domination. he had his hatred of jews, and

his persecution and ultimately slaughter of jews was not secondary. that was primary to his ideology and his approach to the world. people wondered, including in the united states, including high policymakers, why in the world during this terrible gg w ii, tens of millions of guy, the fate of the world hanging in the balance, would germany divert resources, enormous resources, simply to hunting out and killing jews. that was hard for americans to understand. but for hitler the killing of jews was never a diversion from the war. it was a primary objective of the war, to which he would devote to it, uniquely in all of history, a modern state was devoting its resources to hunting down of people whatever they may be found. and exterminating them. men, women and children with the goal of wiping out the

biological substance of jews. that was a primary goal of hitler, not anything secondary to hitler. >> host: when did american policymakers become e? >> guest: american policymakers certainly became aware of the holocaustby late 1941. gerhart in germany who was involved with jewish organizations sent a telegram which came to rabbi stephen wise, head of the american jewish congress, and went to the department, providing reliable evidence of what we call horribly the final solution, or the holocaust. nobody deleted of course, but information was really piling up from the telegram, and lots of other sources. by late 1941, hitler was engage in this horrific campaign of singling out on slaughtering

jews, and in november of 1941, rabbi steven wine, the head of the jewish american congress held a press conference in which he released this information but it's one of the great ironies of history that this press conference, releasing news of the holocaust, was not held by any official of the united states government, but by private citizen. and the reason was the state department didn't want to get involved with releasing explosive, controversial information about the slaughter of jews. the state department throughout the war and even before was really an obstacle, a sticking point in hating the jews. and to the extent franklin roosevelt did a the jews, he often had to override his own state department. and ultimately the jewish secretary of the treasury had to go around the state department and accused the state department of structuralism in late 1943

and early 1944, to get a war refugee board established to help rescue the imperiled jews of europe, most of whom had already of course been slaughtered in the hoous host: who was bckenridge long? >> guest: breckenridge long was assistant secretary of state. he was brought on after the outbreak of world war ii in europe. franklin roosevelt prior to the outbreak during his second term have been very generous about admitting jews to the united states. he couldn't override our quota system which had about some 25-30,000 quotas in greater germany. because only congress could do that, and congress was restriction is an isolationist. but he eased visa requirements and our quota was over scribe. we were led in tens of thousands of refugees from greater

germany, most of them jews. and world war ii breaks out and ro

at the very end of his life, he was gravely ill, franklin roosevelt, traveled from yalta to the suez canal to meet with the king of saudi arabia, very influential arab leader to try to persuade him to set a jewish state in palestine can even try to offer him various incentives that absolutely got nowhere with it. but the man was, you know,

gravely ill, as one of his aides said, he was so ill he was operating purely, instead of flying back to the u.s., he goes after the yalta conference. arduous yalta conference to meet with the king. >> host: hominick german jews or european jews were able to get out of germany and to the u.s. in the 1930s? >> guest: certainly well over 100,000 jews were able to get out of germany and into the united states, particularly during the middle to the late years of the 1930s, the period after franklin roosevelt reelection and the outbreak of world war ii. many tens of thousands, over 100,000 german jews got to the united states. because roosevelt did, not one, he eased visa restrictions which have been in effect since the hoover administration and for blocking refugees.

secondly, he allowed temporary visas to stay in a state. to roosevelt's executive action right after his reelection certainly change the lives of well over 100,000 jews. >> host: finally professor lichtman, 80 years later, was fdr's reputation with american jews transport you know, the work on fdr and jews has fallen into two categories. on one extreme you get views like the work, the abandonment of the jews basically saying fdr wasn't a bigger even worse, to jewish concerns and could have done far more. another hands you get works like saving the jews that since fdr was a great savior of the jew. all work shows that both of these extremes are flatly wrong.

fdr certainly was far from perfect when it came to jewish purposes but he was far better than his political opposition or any other world leader at the time. our work also shows, fdr was not monolithic in his response to jewish issues like the extreme works would have us to believe. we actually identified for separate roosevelt's, the first roosevelt of his first term was concerned with reelection, fighting the depression, getting the new deal in, did little or nothing for the jews. ..