reform. >> host: we are just about out of time but what would you like readers to take away from your book? >> guest: i would like them to the next of the politician says lock them up and throw away the key to call them on it or not vote for them to take a good look at this issue what fairness means and what the constitution means to limit the power of the government because right now the government's powers are limited. >> host: the book is "chasing gideon" by karen houppert. >> guest: thank you for having me.

>> that was very nice. thank you. i love colorado and come back whenever i can.

to talk about how things are going so terrible correct also for you since i left left a purple stay in came back to the blue one but anyway i live in maryland so reading this report that it soon will take over vermont to be the most liberal state in the country and that is where i live right now. i thank you are headed in the right direction because government is something we do and participation is not optional. the worst thing that happened to me since leaving colorado i am a hopeless pessimist. my first book was spun the second is not at all. i call it the obama for

horsemen which is over the top my wife said this doesn't seem like you the imagery and as a metaphor you are not that sort of writer revelation in fire and brimstone i told them i am that type of guy now we underestimate how terrible what is going on it actually is even on the right type of thing people understand the long-term consequences of what is going on and we should not underestimate how powerful and destructive government can be in our lives. i will tell you why i think we are screwed that i would like to open it for questions to talk about it together. [laughter] in case i forgot anything but first of all, i named the book baum is for horsemen to get people's attention the greatest book title of all time liberal

fascism was taken but also i would like to become the of one percenter and i will sign after word so i am willing to take these the second i thought the religious metaphor worked well because obama frames everything with that metaphor is always a battle between light and dark and never about policy or a difference of opinion it is always morality. the essential casey makes for government's existence is the notion it should be the moral center of all society and community and you hear the things he talks about. he thinks it should be the arbiter of fairness, the redistribution of wealth and he has the army of virus agents to make sure you participate he has created a

huge socialist revival of politics in washington every betty must sacrifice. remember? every betty must find meaning something bigger than themselves which she means government. if you find meaning in government then you scare the crap out of me. washington is filled with idealistic people that scare me a lot especially the people on the left they don't realize how idealistic they are. anyone who stands in the way of this moral construct is branded the obstructed this, hostage taker, the enemy, not patriotic patriotic, selfish, a bigot bigot, intellectual coward space will say one quick

digression i am sure you have followed this. you will hear republicans called cowards constantly. obama says the vast majority agree with his policy on gun butts if i stand there and i and heaped with scorn in the emotional blackmail and everybody tells me the whole country is against me and i vote in opposite of that doesn't that make me brave by definition? i think that howard is a person as the campaign you cannot pay for tax the rich but they are not cowards. the cowards are those in washington to continue to pile on debt on our kids and

grandkids. and the third reason i caed the book "obama's four horsemen" i think we are doomed. there is no happy ending except if we do this because i don't know how to get out of this so i have yet to see that there is a way out of this problem. certainly not the dependency problem the debt problem people mention the 16 trillion the unfunded liabilities that could be 50 trillion. i don't think these calamities will transform somalia, bangladesh we're too good for that but this united states if think is over and will be something new. there is a book coming out but that this book talks

about how it will be better once we get there. i disagree. i think after 10 years of stagnation which we will have with two terms of elizabeth warren as president. [laughter] items see how we will come all better. this is a sad state of affairs because i am thinking if we just let people use their own initiative things are wonderful but they don't. i operated under the assumption free-market and individual liberty and the astonishing wealth and the guns that we have in the constitutional protections would allow us to get over ward and the shift but i underestimated washington because i don't think that is the case. i don't think that things can happen in when they do i

am shocked but that is where we are headed by conservatives to have interesting and great ideas but the problem is we still try to lew be back in new deal of the great society obama will -- obamacare will be implemented and we will spend 20 years figuring out and we had a chance to stop it and we didn't. i am pessimistic as much as i liked to blame him that republicans were in charge for a long time and they share the blame now for different reasons but believe better not eidenshink any policy obama has implemented is the big problem either but there's something much greater the thing that scares me the most is the bombing has mainstream radical thinking

people believe crazy ideas most of them were talking about liberals that the two-party yesterweek he said that's not a problem in 10 years. plus deficit spending grows the economy. them more that the better the economy will be. i read almost everything i can online and there are people in mainstream publications who sat there and argued during the debt ceiling debate we should have $1 trillion point* to deposit in the treasury and wash our hands these are serious people and they call the two-party crazies' wife feel the whole world is spinning out of control and i am the only normal person with you and everybody has gone crazy. think about obama and the budget it is a huge massive

fallacy masquerading as policy it is not what you think about economic growth is vernets he doesn't care about growth. i am sure you have read milton friedman which brings me to this serious prospect of all what does this say? to me it says we have lost the american people. it is a possibility conservatives don't like to deal with there is no real conservative party in europe and my parents immigrated from communist hungary and there is still no liberal presence there is what makes us think there has to be a strong conservative party republican here? i am not sure how many views on the autopsy report it was jammed packed with painfully

obvious things we already know some of the things they found that the republican party was scary and narrow minded and out of touch that sort of thing. [laughter] i used to think the same thing. [laughter] and the perception the g.o.p. does not care about the people doing great harm to the party. as practical politics go it is wonderful to care about people with good personal morality and passion is a good idea. but if the future of the republican party tries to out care democrats are emphasizing democrats are out promise the democrats than what is the point* of the republican party? you will always come in

second place. i promise. that is scary we're losing the american people in the republican party wants to be more like the democratic party. not talking about immigration but generally speaking there idea is democrats when we have to be more like that's. that is the problem the party focused on the right to life and the right to a good life. number libertarian instinct says government is not there to give you a good life but for you to find it that once you start promising the government promises a good life not just free of violence but good, you head down a bad road. maybe you have to because you lost the american people and conservatives feel they are pushed out and is complex with the

generational shift. i don't get into that the free-market conservatives should be even more worried about this direction because once government starts promising things there is no way to come back and with two parties doing the same thing you are really in trouble and i do have some poll numbers here when i say we lost the american people successor 10 believe the nation's wealth is not fairly distributed. those numbers stay consistent and i think the inclination there are too many poor people are not enough rich people is bad. you're not condemning policy people feel like they need to say that but what scared

me was the spike is over 60 percent who thank you should co-workers or take property to make it more fair. that is a huge spike i think it is because we mainstream the progressive idea of redistributing wealth. there is no other way to look at that another gallup poll saw half of democrats had a positive view of socialism a better view of socialism that capitalism. there was a pretty good number of non democrats who viewed socialism positively as well. six at the 10 voters supported bigger government and wanted them to do more to solve our problems i say that now that when i was

younger with generation x. we didn't ask for much. [laughter] but generation y or whenever they call it i generalized human nature is human nature but there are studies. [laughter] there is a professor at university of new hampshire who measures psychological bubbles of entitlement and narcissism. [laughter] he found last year generation y was 25% higher responding between 40 and 60 when it came to those. they were in the highly entitled range. four times more likely to expect things from

government and their parents and their neighbors. that is amazing. now you have young people and the older generation seems far more responsible than those who were demanding saying this. i think he was a liberal reading between the lines that could not believe they had the inflated sense of self that lead to chronic disappointment. i worked with in tort -- and turns of the gate had anything to do with journalism but now they want to be featured and i think there is nothing wrong by a knock sure why they would expect that? but they do.

all of which means it is a perfect demographics for barack obama. there is another discssion that is important but i am not as big of a believer. i think john has a handle on that bet is more about immigrants. i am pro immigration reform but i do think with people coming the bring a lot of ideas with them from elsewhere and this new batch of immigrants has the wrong idea so when my parents came millions of people did this he was a chemist and was working in a factory where they put together the brown bags at the supermarket we

would get arrested for using today. [laughter] it all worked out but he never thought if i failed government will pick it up. my mother as well. but today brought the obama his message is if government isn't there every step of the way you will fail but if we're not there collectively you will fail. i am there with my community , patriotic but we still have to achieve and he never puts the burden on the actual individual. in my opinion. now this sense of entitlement that young people have he plays on that sense of injustice with immigrants and with women. i have a whole thing on abortion i will skip that

because it is too much of a downer to deal with atlanta on saturday but it is brutal to think we ignore that story the way we do because they don't want to talk about the larger issue. is simple because we talk about arbitrary lines to be the second and the fourth and the tenth amendment which is very dangerous. i don't think we're actually debating we're just being scolded all the time and called names that we just lose constantly because we're always on the defensive. obama won the election.

so keep that in mind going to the next election and he would say you leave belong to the democratic party then say you did not build that but your neighbor was not that offended. that is the bottom line.

you may think that sentiment is outrageous that people i wonder if they care about liberty like they used to but i wonder they never talk about liberty or guns they talk about schools, there community so we need some new issues to talk about. i'm and as guilty as anyone else because i can understand why people believe it is okay to redistribute wealth. i have no solution and wondering here if anybody does. it would be helpful but to quickly mentioned i liked working with a liberal establishment i was one of two people who were not liberal there because it is

from where the other people come from now i am surrounded is weird because sometimes you want to understand why the opposition is where they are and they're at a conservative place but i want to open it up but i really do think we are doomed just so you know, . [laughter] if someone could just tell me how we will back the tendency not even for a policy but i think there is ugliness going on i don't feel i am an expert on as well but it scares me what will happen to israel and how do we turn that around and fix it?

anyone? >> i'll take the prerogative if you look at what happens i yeager a washington seems hopeless. you do see the interesting thing is happening at the state level so if you look at it holistic lee? >> there are a lot of states doing interesting things where they're looking at the problems people face not just platitudes that frankly like mitt romney but they've not sure conservatives find themselves in a tough spot they want government to take care of that and on the left they want the federal government to take care of everything so on a national level it will be tough but i

definitely think on the state level lot of stuff is happening budding colorado colorado, someone asked if we are speaking later and they said why colorado turned polluting gave reasons but he missed 15 that have been nationally that they were very successful to lower taxes or other areas where they lost those issues. nobody cares about taxes because they don't pay more they care about other things like school choice that is an issue that many liberals would agree with because sometimes they don't even know they agree that everybody was sending their kids toots' charter school

almost like a voucher system. the idea is very similar. i think you're right about that. >> i was a friend the other day and all of these things were foreseeable but sometimes we concluded people have to experience it and what of the comments you made a bad things happen to america is because of the policy that we have to experience it. i was very encouraged by the number of young people that the libertarian minded republican got to. hope is not gone. >> it is worth fighting for

and there are a lot of people with good ideas and people to care. it is true. this the packed audience they are young but remember we have jobs and young people don't. [laughter] it was wonderful to see people at activated but conrad is interesting it split the party you can see already it was the tea party establishment saying it was difficult is going on nationally you could see the rand paul and marco rubio but i have to say they are both impressive than the candidates republicans are putting forward lately and romney is wonderful but not

a good candidate. >> i just can believe it either want to pick on the guy that i open the paper and i see that. it was a shock. >> want to start i agree about the issue of the current political paradigm i do believe it is doomed but i am still optimistic that the phoenix can rise from the ashes. i was able to attend a national students for liberty conference last month with an colter in front of 1400 students there all very liberal called us policies -- pussies they just don't grasp the on this

enthusiasm that a great number of people have for these ideas we have not seen the honest arbiters of these ideas and the republican party for decades as your question you raised how we sell the idea is to the american public, i think the last is effective to paint our philosophy as inherently negative as the party of no and to a certain extent i am happy to be the party of no to some bad ideas but it is not enough we have to provide a positive vision for what we want to see happen and how our ideas can improve people's lives and enhance there ability to take control and make their lives better for instance on

the issues of taxes i admonished proponent of a fair tax we can't do it by just talking against the income tax. rica be much more effective talking about eliminating corporate welfare to have a more even playing field by creating a system and they are equal before the law from economic theft. >> feel the way to do that is to have the right people playing for you to make compelling messages. i don't know i'll think the public has those people in great abundance in washington. >> i like wray and paul lot the he said some stuff.

no one is perfect. i like him find that when you talk about the civil-rights act you're just asking for trouble you don't need guys understand the idealistic point* that my neighbor doesn't understand that the kitschy already thinks republicans are racist. to go back to an coulter who had a good point*. i am basically libertarian for the crazy stuff they want but there are things there more important. they want to legalize drugs is that really the big problem right now? and no. talk about obamacare or creating the infrastructure for socialized medicine that doesn't seem libertarian but yet they and fight like the communist used to over

minutia but i get it it is the idealistic movement and i believe they have the right idea. so to privatize the army and over here in the real world i and a stand you have to set your sights what is achievable but the left wants a national background check. is that where they want to stop that is all we need? know it is just the first up then they say i cannot believe we left that loophole that we tighten it and move forward where now we think we are done and move along but they never give up. obamacare lost and now we move on. can you imagine the liberal saying citizens united was decided now we move on. that will never happen.

i felt like all of what ann coulter says but i do understand what she means buy you do need the equal to convey that message. >> [inaudible conversations] especially on the right we have been feeling that. okay, they have gotten their sound bites down but do they believe in these ideas or do they just do it for the sake of political power? john toner -- john baker is the speaker of the house and a major representative of the party we should be

willing to call our own leadership when they're not standing up >> but would have been up with the grass roots they feel like they cannot get an inch because they are taken advantage that is why the house is obstructionist i actually like that word as a positive but they don't want to pass anything because they feel in the long run they will be taken advantage of nobody in the right believes it will secure the border. nobody that is why they will not have a good conversation and by the way i am a liberal on the issue and believe they are right or will secure the border so that is important just give in and. nothing happened in washington which is wonderful but the problem is

everything is self perpetuating. with all these things on autopilot and now you have to reform taxes i don't understand not tax cuts but i don't understand why that isn't a winner for republicans. call volume put out his budget that the press doesn't talk about it. i don't know what you do because they will never talk about it. so you start your own little newspaper. >> first the lycee thank you for coming in the issues framing how people can understand them. >> let me interject i think being negative is more

effective. [laughter] fear mongering works far more often than positive messages and people love negative commercials heaps. >> but let me read interpret people like things they can say i get that. anders and why it is useful. we should refrain the policy as redistributionist and school vouchers are a handout to the kids in the ghetto who want a way out that is great policy but we give handouts in terms of immigration if you want the ph.d. for those who want to pass to citizenship if you want solar panels we can give you a massive tax break if we can frame the issues

better we can get the people to represent our ideas in ways that are consistent with the framework that is problematic for us people don't hold on negative boat holds nearly for what is in their lives it is a great buzzword but people felt based on what they think is useful in their lives. >> i agree but think i am not actually in politics but the problem with that is i cannot support, i'd like the way you frame that. i like your idea but it would bother me it sounds like we're handing stuff out to people because even though we're not really giving them anything, and stanley are giving them a break but that is not a bad idea but solar panels are

not that big of a part of their lives democrats will never go broke because the union will destroy people who bring vouchers for word. i like the idea. i would go with that. to say we're retrieving the conservative argument we will give you tax breaks for everything. [laughter] >> i piggery i think we are doomed. is there anyone in the spectrum of humanity you can run for president of the united states, one name is dr. ben person that can win the argument and the

a candidate but it just doesn't work. i don't know if ben carson would be like that let it takes a big organization and a lot of money. i don't know enough about him. i like what he says but i don't know what he believes san marco rubio will run and i have gotten to be him a few times and he is really likable even though people disagree on immigration king ave but going on rush limbaugh to defend your position it was a stand-up way to do it. john mccain they will obstruct everything where marco rubio handles it better so that is a bond for him and rand paul?

also chris christie everyone is mad at him but he is likable i grew up in new york he is like the one who ran the deli they were lucky to be buying something from him. [laughter] but he does have the appeal he is not really a conservative but sometimes you have to give been a little bit. >> i don't see him going through the primary i think what he did, i liked him as a candidate not what he believes and what he did to romney was terrible because obama reached into his pocket and give it to new jersey but no he took money from taxpayers the president didn't do anything we did and perhaps they did deserve

it but i thought it was not that pace. >> i am curious what you think house social media changed the election. as well as the organizational structure that we don't have. >> i love social media and twitter and i wrote a column how it was useless know i am on there 24/7. [laughter] i don't think it has anything to do with that but it is overrated and people changing their minds of the time but to go back and forth on abortion the majority believed it was good than bad and do people

really change their mind that often? twitter creates the perception of momentum of something of that nature but does not have that much of any fact of voters to get out and obama has a great organization to knock on doors and was at the heritage foundation listening to how in the old days you take a phone lest there off the list. we will not on their doors that they knocked on as many doors as they can and to there is technology to help you do that better but not sending the right things to people.

i twi of the time by never change a single person's mind. is a big waste of time but it is fun. >> i would like to say thank you for coming and depressing the hell out of me. [laughter] i agree with everything you said and i think chris christie is a good representative of what you're talking about before we got mad that i grew up as a generation x todd fdr was the best president and went to high school did not learn about the constitution the first to years of college of learning then the next two years learning a few things however i found out that is not the same experience many fellow law students have had. with the last debate what pe seem to mess with

three branding and period. you may comment to argue with people it is a fruitless but i had my daughter come to me too sad understand why it is such a big deal the legislator has the of power reid being the legislative papers but i showed her the executive orders now she is scared of the president had wray get back so that they and ears stand what the great experiment was and why liberty is fundamentally important to who we are as a nation. >> it is interesting you mentioned education they have taken over life and my kids come home where you

have to shut the lights off on sunday for one hour like i am watching tv ready shutting off the lights why would you do that? we should celebrate we have a light and electricity but they have taken over the institution of higher education i think once it is said is spending $1 billion to make men from the president they shared by cbs that would have been a better use of that money because too often if you ignore culture we don't talk about things that normal people talk about. when i get home i will not show would never dumb thing i am watching you influence in ways to sink about though

world how many movies have you seen that the muppets but every movie he is a businessman or makes money? it just sinks in after a while. i forget what you said about understanding or what it means to be american but look at how we mainstream radical thinking. if i a don't buy you your contraception now as a democrat, and then i think you're taking something away from me you converted what it means to have the freedom to choose. if you don't subsidize abortion you conduct a war on women. now if i give you something

i take something from you. a lot of young women i have two daughters and it scares me they have to internalize that thinking when it is ridiculous. but then there you are you teach them what it means that how many people really take the time? most parents should make the time my kids have learned more ridiculous history so far but nothing about the american revolution and they talk about it they don't talk about it in a way that i would have presented it i tell my daughter yes the tea party patriots ran to get the gun to defend there freedom because the school they go to is such of a no no you cannot even bring in a pitcher for they will

suspend you for ever. what did you do? you teach them to do the best you can. i grew up in a liberal neighborhood every betty was except my family so you can imagine how that went down and my parents just kept drilling it in to me i had to rebel but now i have walked fatback and if you read that fountainhead there is no good answer but school choice is definitely one of the things to help turn that around to get kids out of public education i'm not paranoid i don't care how many times they tell me those teachers are teaching my kids the saying is they don't believe it is not master science but spend more time on environmental and bass. colorado was better but

takebacks the institution. not that we will do it because we are doomed but as so i hope everybody fights the good fight it is worth the fight. it is an amazing place with a terrorist and the uncle when he talks about america is great as of this country we came here to be free and these guys are losers. [laughter] but if that is the talk that you get from the emigrants' i knew growing up. they don't think of themselves that way they believe the of the idea of americans and one new immigrants to think the same way with this president what is going on i am not sure that will happen. >> one more quick question then if anybody else has

questions he will be right outside the door with books for sale you can do stop and ask the question then. >> just a challenge to the we are doomed proposition, how much could be the pendulum swinging? in looking at the election of 2010 and what happened after obama and the democrats have their way and why isn't this happening? >> you make a good point* that things happen we cannot perceive liberals don't understand because they think they can plan everything out but 9/11 or god forbid anything else but to change politics and everything that could have been that when you really

look at the popular vote in 2000 as a point* of discussion with al gore democrats have been at winning for a long time even the way the republicans were acting were far more left-wing and perhaps reagan would have acted i don't see a pendulum but is slow drip more than going back and forth and here is the big problem when democrats create policy is policy for ever. when republicans with a temporary tax cut has to be fixed the problem is you always have to be vigilant and they never stop the programs have mission creep

every betty here's the estimates with where we are do you think obamacare will be different creating a state exchange? ising surprises already doubled from where they started. with their programs are for ever and ours our not. [laughter] clap. >> there are two infamous prisons in the wes one is the territorial prison and the other is up to travis. there is something in our culture or consciousness of

what would it have been like to be in a prison like this? the territorial prison was considered to be a model inmate institution in its day this was for solitary confinement come a major infraction or talking back to the guard not giving respect to the authorities, if they couldn't deal with you then the cells could. of all the treatment this is the place you did not want to come because you did not have a latrine you got bread and water once per day occasionally there was more than one person and one great bay prison breakout there were 12. we have no proof of this that said a marine guard in

the pitch black you would feel something coming down the air shaft it could be a scorpion or a snake. it is not documented. >> parallel to the way the you talk about the evolution added sen perfecting the incandescent light and the evolution of computing as well by this want you to talk about those for a minute. first of all, the notion that most great progress comes from this single brilliant inventor that there is that your rigo movement that flash of

brilliance and innovation happens in the isolation and not so much in the ecosystem but you take those on nearly to say that is not really what happened can you talk about that? >> people long for this story of the rico moment it is exciting and accessible and a lot more complicated to understand the exchange of ideas with the battles over the marketplace to say to these great ideas as passed down to us with technological creativity and how did it have been? edison enter the late into the search for the incandescent bulb there were five or six other inventors

all of them recognize the key elements said he was entering into a crowded field and learned a lot from the mistakes and successes of his rivals and some suggested there was battling over the patent. >> who else was involved? competitive lee trying to achieve the same things? >> another fascinating character he beat edison to crucial patterns and with the working incandesce that in the field also working for years on the label to put one into his house to live it a mansion and lit up

the street lights and that was six months before edison so many people under the big test was in paris at the exposition and edison one the day when he arrived but he was there with five other people who had other systems >> were they aware of each other's work and the progress they were making? >> yes. at least one does in the first person to identify incandescent light was in 1810 once demonstrated that people try to do it for years. they didn't quite get all the pieces together but for more than half a century people try to create the incandescent light. >> what did you discover the way they felt about the incremental stages of

progress? >> i suspect there was a real sense of rivalry that he figured this out in the way nobody else had with the first day breakthrough was to suggest they had a car bin development pulled he would create titanium in the stock markets plummeted beaches people were so convinced because of edison says he can surely he can six months later he said i will go back to the crowded field. >> and talking about the technology talk about the wonderful phrase you have early in the book that edison invented a whole new style almost the modern way

of innovation. >> his model was to have the first research and development laboratory where he was very critical of college education am proud of the fact he was largely self-taught but new to hire anniversary trained -- university trained to help him in the project also he had to hire technicians he needed somebody to realize the various ideas so it is the entire team working collaboratively but edison was the intellect that many knew more about the specialty but edison was the one who set the agenda and also to negotiate with the capitalist do get the money

with the research and development process. and edison said it was the invention factory to come up with a minor invention every 10 days an amazing picture every six months. . .