>> there a lot of aspects that you can see. that may be part of the two together. i think actually, it is in the suburbs of the united states. in a but in a way, you have the biggest interactions on how to live. >> host: what about efficiencies? are americans efficient people?

>> guest: you know, the thing about the united states, it is the space. you are able to live in a way that the rest of those in europe are not. you have the space to build. you have the ability to pick up the u-haul truck and attested to back your car and start again. it is a much more productive country than most european

countries. that kind of sense of using every thing of the day, i don't think you have any more than anything else, that is just something that we don't have. we associated in our minds.

you write that it's the greatest privilege of my life and you are now back in the uk. what are you doing? >> well, you know, it is the bbc correspondent. it doesn't have that kind of force in the united states -- it would absolutely be not that

this television out of the ballpark when it comes to numbers and also when it comes to the kind of quality of people, and the people who are really concerned about what is going on in the world. it was really to be honest about something that i couldn't say i thought we would that we would have a long-term decision as a family. but then it would be unfair to bring my children back as teenagers. to bring them back to live in south london wouldn't be great. so we had to make a decision of the family about where we would be. that is what we decided come back for.

>> watch the tv every sunday over the next several weeks or more. >> you're watching booktv on c-span2. here's a look at our primetime lineup for tonight. coming up next, a profiling of the founders of the muslim liberal arts college in america. and at 815, chronic illness in america. at 9:00 p.m., a state of foreign policy followed by charles johnson. leadership lessons from america's most underrated

president. we conclude our programming at 11:00 p.m. eastern the art of controversy. >> this program is an hour and 10 minutes. >> thank you all very much for coming. >> i would like to thank all of you for coming and the bookstores as well and the event is also cosponsored by the islamic center and i think the head of the organization for being with us tonight.

it is how we are viewing this, they were very supportive of my work i would like to thank them. i am so able to say that beacon press is part of my publishing. i wanted them to be here, of course. i would like to thank them as well. especially my editor made amy caldwell. this book is about this is a

book that covers the first year of the school. a student had come from and why you and i think you'll see why i also owe a little bit i would like to thank my family for being here as well. i'm ever indebted to my wife, kate. so i will be reading a bit from the book in the section is entitled going muslim. you will see why in just a moment.

on november 9, 2009, the journalist and magazine editors published an essay responding to mass shootings at the army base in fort hood, texas. while it would not be fair, we have only corresponded and all semester he was teaching a course at new york university school of business. a stone's throw about religion at nyu's school of individual study. it is reason enough to take these essay somewhat personally. and we have paychecks from the same big account. certainly most of us can recall

the facts about fort hood. there are reports and calling out [inaudible] throughout his rampage. it means god is the greatest. it is more times than i could report it. the headline alone told the story that is alarmingly too many fewer americans have been able to tell.

the scenario is it is even more dangerous for being unpredictable and inevitable. things that grow, plants, mold, children, it develops over time. usually in ways that you can see. going muslim and without fair morning. angry students and faculty called for disciplinary action and in the defense of him on the grounds of academic freedom. the controversy was just a few

days old before i heard any word of it or had the chance to read it myself. i learned of it from a student. and it was at the far corner of the seminar table. he asked us to call him bob for short. i was grateful for that, of course, this is some of what i learned. up to this point, he raised his hand this year and when he did, i would almost ask them to speak up again so i could hear what you're saying and have been repeated. in time, i would come to see it as an expression of humility and investments more than anything else. this is part of it. in 2004, after graduating from high school, one of new york's

premier public schools, we enrolled as part of the school of islamic studies, and it had been founded in 1996 by the american congress is a nonprofit educational institute. this includes individuals in full families that arrived. and during the weekend already.

it is part of the favorite preparation of the muslim tribes. living with the scholars seems to have made it creative and just how much they all knew, especially in teaching. and just how much he had to learn. i have never known a student to carry around so many books and. each one just seemed to more peace of the puzzle. it might continue to reveal what it could look like is relevant to islam in america. it often looks like rotation. i still have another that i needs work and better, he said.

islam places a premium on memorization and the transmission of wisdom across a generation. it started with mohammed. i quoted at length the most relevant that he had lived with and studied with in california. he told me with the help of two other scholars, it was just transforming as a seminary into a liberal arts college. it turned out that it had some trappings of a typical working institution, it was mainly the brainchild of a founder from berkeley who had studied

overseas and made this indigenous to the united states. yes, though the seminary was at the forefront as late as the spring of 2007, the founders and others were already resulting in a move away from the institute reported permanent four-year college that they eventually hoped would earn american accreditation. they came across as the most relevant of all. after four years in hayward, he returned to new york. the professor seemed to be suggesting that his teachers, including me, the main vigilant.

why is this? well, because it is founded on contempt for infidels and an obligation for propriety that is more expensive than it ever has seemed. in the few months i knew him, he never seemed part of content. he would occasionally say in some reference to daily prayers or having started on a seminary that all we can balance his good humor and the kind of skepticism, especially where other people's piety it runs afoul. i have known from those religious traditions that the research wasn't just mental. after all, according to this translation.

concern yourself with what has been entrusted to you. in other words, jesus says, mind your own business. muslims are supposed to listen. before class for next week, my own schedule i will bring to the forefront. it was strange having dared

these words in my mouth. i am not usually that paranoid. the difference between going postal in the conventional sense and going muslim in the sense that i suggest is that there was not necessarily a psychological snapping point in the case of this. instead, there can be a calculated discarding of camouflage, the camouflage of immigration and catharsis. and there was a predator far-reaching and it seemed to reach through my classroom. in the end, the only other was to the armed forces and reporting suspicious behavior of the chain of command. fortunately, essay wasn't long enough and a classmate told him

how dangerous he was. the practice since 9/11 is hardly news to him. morning of 9/11 from the 14-year-old in a second. matt european class, he heard of women are words of the attacks and instructions for students to be in school. as i moved through the library on the sixth floor there was tension on the fourth floor before directing other students with the same view again. it was only before it began to sponsor the streets as well.

two girls held hands along the hudson. they all walk together for a while. so it wasn't far from school. and at a point, he decided to find his way alone. it didn't occur to him that his friends might like a place to get away from this. if he was doing that across the city, he was in the middle of memorizing 9/11 and that they would have the whole scripture memorized. i remember thinking that people might see it strange that i was

listening for everything and everyone in chaos. of course, it might've been wars if those people knew that he was listening to the crime, the evildoers cannot be saved and points to a command of understanding. an explanation of all things to direct true believers. it includes a farewell message and in the days before high school graduation. until recently, it was time for the noon prayer on that day and

i got on my bike and went. houses didn't appear to us as it did two other new yorkers. in 2004, it presented a different perspective. in 2001, it happened. failing as though this existence is part of the world around us. and he was looking for ways to ground himself more deeply in islam, though he may not have put it this way then, to present

himself culturally as a people america muslim. it would end up that he would need to see where they would come from. it may be attacks carried out by so-called muslims and including that it was properly put, what do you say in the months just before a smoking nissan pathfinder of benin in times square, here in essence is the problem i face that day that we think that in my religion class. it gets to the heart of this book. like many writers that i know, i teach writing. and i tend to teach as much as i

know. it's no coincidence that this tendency in teaching is write what you know. in the past, i have done this. my own background and religious training was in christian theology. which includes a fair sampling of judaism. i studied with a rabbi and wrote my first book is a moderately religious jew. in the years before 9/11, i had taken a required course on islam, but was preoccupied with most of the term, writing a novel and never published. it includes the rantings of a lunatic than ever before, osama bin laden. it begins with a story that is

essentially about what happens to muslims and other college classrooms. i set out to write something i didn't know. it sounds absurd, but i was attempting to teach students how to think deeply and write well about contemporary american religion without really being knowledgeable enough to do it myself. at the very least, over the week that followed, i could agree in my gut with every criticism leveled against him. to do my job as a professor of religion, i could do a little than stare blankly back. including handing the cross over to him. singh, explain yourself. finding ways to explain himself had to do with a third founder

and what he had in mind. as much as any of those involved in the story that follow like to deny it, would likely not be the case, there is no getting around the 9/11 terrorist attacks have in the way that we, all of us, think about the way islamic contemporary america work. we have been hearing a news report after news report is that muslims gather in the public square, a local mosque, or a military base loaded with guns. i was there again and again throughout that first year most

but not all of these women, i was in a mosque listening to the sermon in an islamic center tucked away in the dormitories and libraries and we ate together at restaurants and celebrated the birth of the profit on almost every visit. where muslims gather, this much i know is true. that is the introduction to the book. [applause] >> thank you. we are going to have some conversation about this book now.

>> are you ready? >> death. having read through the book is an amazing piece and i think in the introductory comments that you chose to share with the audience, the narrative is striking that we are used here in the united states. you know, one that equates to be something inherently radical in its nature. it seems to be taking a lot of steps away from that idea. what was the impetus of writing this in the first place? >> before i answer that, i should say that scott is here for about 90% of that.

he sort of speak in. >> you fooled me. >> well, i think what compelled me was i just felt that i had done very well in my work and in my writing and i felt like i had a good sense of what motivated christians and bring you the stories that motivated christians and the various ways that christians were operating in america. but there's something compelling something i could agree with and

identify with. this includes a kindred faith tradition. it had been very foreign in my upbringing. i knew that i could say the same things as well. and here i was. there was a student who was in my classroom who is countering all of these motions. it seemed to me if i could understand where he came from and who his teachers were and what it was about the tradition that he really valued and living

in america was by its very nature, difficult. that all of the stereotypes, about the violence, the extremism, effected by nine and be able to write about it in the narrative way, to cover the course of this and tell stories about individuals who represent you know, in some cases kids. those who want to make it clear that their lives are here in america. i haven't found other places for

examples to that. but i really haven't paid attention. it's not to say those examples weren't around, just annoyed. i was like, okay, now we have the legislators need to be more well known. so here are the students that have committed themselves in these teachers should be better known and away they go. but it started as a kind of ignorance. and in ignorance but i felt in my gut is wrong. an immense that said, i need to figure this out.

i began sympathetically and simply as a part of the book as well. sympathy for the misunderstanding and what i have learned is a misunderstanding. >> live in talking about this a lot. he definitely seems to play a critical role in the emphasis for going out and having spent the amount of time that you did. but they are hoping to achieve an established. you feel as though after four years in this style of program, but it's really the product they are hoping to shake? >> i refer to it a little bit,

always carrying this bag full of books. you know. one thing that the scholars are trying to instill it is that all knowledge is sacred knowledge. and that you don't have to be studying the koran on the time to be understanding of it. you don't have to be studying the tradition of the profit out of time to be getting sacred knowledge. you can think and talk about baseball. just in recent weeks, in preparation for a book to come

out, in the classroom they were reading shakespeare sonnets. i can explain why, but they were reading robert frost. and if you hear him ever give a talk, you'll hear him for two bob dylan. he loves bob dylan and robert frost and emily dickinson. the religious tradition comes into play with the american cultural pieces or the european cultural pieces, english cultural pieces, and i think that he had done not and in the

four years he is graduating now in the spring. he represents that. that is what he does is create students for whom islam is part of their life, those that can allow them to go out and do other things, that is what it is preparing. he does that is a student. you know, he wants to go on and be a scholar. but mom everyone wants to go on and be a scholar of islamic studies. one of the things that i talk to is about how every lawyer has a soul and every doctor has a heart.

that is something that is compelling. maybe it is because it is established as a religious institution, they're not afraid to talk about the soul and heart. and what he has brought into nyu and struggled with, because oftentimes create a little bit of tension for me. being able to talk about that in a class with john sexton, at the center of it is the church. and i think that is what they were trying to create in their students. although there may be some -- they're not trying to create this. they are trying to, you know, educate students who will do more with it, although they

should walk out of there feeling like people who understand that everything that they do -- that is something that he feels and we may not all feel that way. but there a lot of people in this world who do. >> something that he said was very interesting. going into class on logic, reading robert frost, no one would have an expectation that in our own preconceived ideas and stereotypes around what muslims are and what it must be teaching to others. but you would find a place for shakespeare and it would be interesting to hear what kind of ideas that you have going into

this and how are the ideas reinforced or firm, or how did they differ from what you actually experienced on the ground. essentially in the muslim community. >> i was not at first expecting this. i feel like i wasn't expecting it to be quite as welcome. this doesn't have anything to do with theology or that were islam, necessarily. when i went out there for the first time in august of 2010, at the height of the parc 51 controversy when reports about

islam -- i think as an institution, they have their guard up to go out there and it seems like those stories, you know, the glimpse into the classroom or they have a brief interview with one of the students. sort of knowing that there was this media coverage, i should have stepped back a little bit. and waited to approach certain things.

i'm going to set up a meeting with 10 of the students in or you're going to gather in the dorm room and it will be great. they were doing something historic, they weren't shying away from not come in and let us

show you what it is that we care about and why we love this. why we love this. that is a bit of a surprise just how open and welcoming they were. they made introductions and the other thing that i can say that was surprising was the level of emotion that i found. even i liked him, i admire him. but i didn't want to be like him

i think that that is something that we struggle with over time. there is a lot for spiritual life. the other thing it reflects is i don't often see people crying, crying out about their love of jesus. now, it is who is arguably the

most implementable muslim scholar. you can call that it is incredibly influential. he talks about the profit and he feels it and it is super compelling to the students. it is super compelling to me. >> one of the more the students asked if they could attend easter services with you. you spend all this time

understanding their faith and identity and how one kind of fits into the other. we want to comment and see what it is like to be part of this service. what is that about? >> well, it's funny. there's a good group of students in what is called a celebration of the birthday of the profits. it is a controversial fact of islam. correct me if i'm getting this wrong, but the idea is that it wasn't his doing something, but for us to do it in the future would be contrary.

>> yes, celebratory. >> to celebrate the private birthday is controversial. and we have done not on friday night. i got text messages asking me very politely she could go to church with me the next day. easter sunday. at the time of my life, i was p. not a church person. but a flurry of text messages with them back and forth, that's often how we communicated. moshe kohn's and the whole bed.

and of course i would. i think you're exactly right, they had been telling me over and over what they were about. so i found a church that i thought was going to be good. we went, and i walked with a group of women. i walked to the group of women up to the front. i sneak into the queue ahead of them and i explained to them what is going to happen as we are standing and sitting or kneeling. i would be instructed about it as well. put your hands this way, in what order i should take my shoes off

into the mosque. she sort of points ahead and says, look, and and i said yes, that is it. they are looking for. that is what they were there for. looking to connect. she's the only woman entered in the name of the crime known as the mother, mary, the puppet jesus. it is pretty profound but it is really good. >> he said he went out there a

few weeks ago. what's going on now? >> i will talk a little bit about this. i will do another short bit of reading done and take some questions. >> okay. >> so in the past couple of years one thing was figuring out how to train people in arabic with the speed that they need to in order to graduate them all with arabic proficiency. that is one of the struggles they have had. but what they have done is -- originally they had decided to do two major things. in january, we made a switch to make the foundation for the

school and think of them and i won't be able to name them all. astronomy, music, arithmetic, better. that was the foundation. but really what they are about is doing a liberal arts graduate. that is why you find shakespeare and gates and dickinson. another that it's working perfectly yet, but they are trying to not only do that, but integrate classes. and they won't graduate with a degree in arabic, it is a degree

that the institution is in. that has been a major change in the past year in terms of curriculum. the other thing i can say is there has been the they were occupying the rooms in the basement of that place. and they very recently purchased a new campus up on top of what is holy hell, amidst all the other seminaries up there. and the hope is to have a permanent campus. they are very proud of that move. they should graduate the first-class from that building.

they make steps forward their spirits are up right now. they are optimistic that it will be a successful project. but that said, i am sympathetic. >> image at the time? >> okay. for just a few minutes, we will take questions. both of us are more than happy to do that. >> okay. >> okay, this is just a short passage about a trip that i took

it to my first trip. we were taking a bus from berkeley. >> there was as much per in reading we were absorbed in the pockets around. she also had taken to a new islamic law professor who told them always carry a little notebook with you. whatever inspires you or rings true for you. whatever inspires you. including the obvious way that

they are in any classroom. every moment deserves the attention of the notetaker. what might be structured with the books and schedules and trappings of any classroom, structured as it is, she said, so much more obviously by the divine. the whole world was part of this within 20 minutes. this is after winter breaks, and on campus felt different and the same. the most striking differences were certainly in dustin's case, he stuck around the bay to continue his studies at uc

berkeley and to continue his courts are. he moved out of the men's dorm around them. they were thrilled to be back in the bay which felt like a kind of homecoming. i stepped in and made my way to the side. so a natural path usually formed across the room. and unable to go any tighter, we were not long for the mosque. the weather was beautiful.

we marched out with a number of others to take their places on the sidewalk. the trap was laid over the concrete. as was usual, he spoke into a microphone and today his message carried out. he had opened in what he considered under the circumstances in an unusual way. with a letter addressed to god by 12-year-old pennsylvania girl whose father had been killed in the west virginia mine explosion. originally, i had never forgot that you are still in charge. i love you, daddy, god, amen. that was a story and yet it is

true. it hardly made sense to start this way. since january 25, more than two weeks earlier, egypt had been in revolt. just this morning it was announced that the dictator had essentially been deposed. the regime did not come easy and it had been possible only because they responded to the message of the profit and you think that you have a hard, he seems to be saying. they did not doubt or minimize what they continue to negotiate for future in the united states.

including machine guns and those in a crowd. as young egyptians would not be turned back. by holding onto the principle of unity, they neglect to see the dictator to be reached in them. and then you press on. even from outside the mosque, you can see the rising intensity and they had a story of revolution back home, back to north oakland, back to the congregation out to martin luther king jr. way. ..

chi >> today, and today was a significant and symbolic day, he said, those drifters find their inspiration in the history made in north africa. he concluded, but people of egypt show history is not made by those who back down in the face of the challenge. history is not made by people willing to compromise their heart felt beliefs, history is not made by people willing to turn back at the first sign of trouble.

the mosque filled with young people where ali was at the doorway was true for the bay area muslims under 30. he told me, if they that got to go; right? he made a treaty for the local muslims to make the history that revolutionaries only just begun to forge in what would be called the arab spring. [applause] so, thank you, all. we have time for a few questions, and, again, they can be either for me or montiff. i ask before you talk, wait for the microphone. thank you.

anything? >> i'm curious if you got any sense of anything specific they were looking for in hiring a brand new set of faculty? so for all the faculty teaching, especially with it being brand new, were there anything -- any trends that you noticed in who they hired? >> the school has been largely staffed by people who have been around for years, and they've, well, one hire made in the administrative level, administrative ranks was a guy who is no longer there, amar, and he used to work in technology, and he had the management skills they wanted,

so there is that struggle of there, and i think omar represented that. you have all these guys who, in many cases, studied overseas, don't have -- don't necessarily have the administrative chops to put together a liberal arts college, but do have the scholarship so that was in terms of hiring them the most difficult challenge was to find who would carry out the running of the school, and omar did a good job, replaced by a man i i have not yet met, i'm not sure, but seems to be filling that role well. >> i was wounderring if you

could talk more about the role of sympathy and getting student and people you talk to to open up and have access and translate that into you telling their stories. >> uh-huh. i think in going out, abad met me in california, my first reporting trip, and he was teaching in the program they have in the summers making various introductions suggesting to them the school that i was a sthettic, that i had sympathy for their cost, for what they were trying to do, and there was some talk in the early days about what fox news had said about them. they knew the up sympathetic view, and my sense is in the introduction that emphasized this, some who has sympathy and

wanted to tell a story, and, you know, i think we developed it in, look, i'm not -- i should say this, i'm not a trained journalist. i have not gone to journalism school. there was part of the book that was not only learning about islam, by getting people's stories and telling them so i found opportunities, and i think leyna was -- i mentioned the way she helped set it up, was to just find ways to sit around for hours at a time and talk with each other saying why are you here? well, i wanted to study the inspiration to me, seen at this conference and this conference, and my mom thought it would be great. so many stories about how mothers sent their sons and daughters, and it's remarkable, something i remarkedded on the last time i was out there.

what i was able to learn, i think, if you spend a good amount of time with people, offer and you -- i guess offer a little bit of yourself as well, but just give them time to tell you what they want to tell youment don't cut them off, don't tell them what they want to tell you, which is easy when you don't know what it's like to attend a mosque so when i said what was it like at home, they told me what mosques were like because i maybe had not been in one yet. they told me about, well, why the mosques at home were not great in some instances and why they found them welcoming, and they were able to narrate that to me, and then that seemed like the story to tell in those moments of the book so when i was talking about the mosque and

i had collected, you know, ten stories about these students' experiences back home, whether that is in brooklyn or whether that was in, you know, denver or mimes, or orlando, new jersey, u know, i got a good sampling of where people came from and what was bringing them here, and i think we developed sympathy among each other in a way by my shows up, listening, and my talking, and in the end, you know, my taking them places, you know? which was great and appears in the book, and there's follow-ups. i mean, is what what mean by sympathy? yes? >> i love how you began this and ended with marking moments and

people's perception of muslims, especially in the united states. i met some history, and i wonder now in the wake of boston marathon incident and speculation because of the causes and debates happening in the media, i wonder if either of you have some reflections on what that says about where we stand in the country, where muslims stand in the question, and the challenges that confront today? >> i'll say a few things, and maybe you -- >> okay. >> i was -- a lot of how i stay in touch with either the community or the people around there, there's leaders now who

have gone through in certain ways and trained and are their own leaders in their own right, and i follow one leader in particular called webb, recently on "face the nation," the cbs morning show, representing islam in a round table discussion in america, and on the one hand, every major muslim organization in the country did issue a statement about boston that i could tell, i mean, i read that today, and e no , ma'am was not among them, and he has the largest islamic community in boston, and his commitment that he made, a commitment as well as a challenge made on twitter, was come and run the marathon with me next year. that will be our sign, our show

of solidarity, so on the one hand, there was a statement today that there's this demand that muslim organizations always issue statements on days like today and yesterday, but it was a demand, so far as i can tell, have risen to, whether they are expectations or not, and to take it up a notch what was done today, i'm not just going to issue a statement, but i'm going to, like, firmly plant myself in boston again saying this is where i live, and this is where i lead my community, and i'm going to call on people from around the country to come with me, and next year, you know, act in solidarity this way. i thought it was a moving tribute, yeah. do you have thoughts about this? >> yeah, you know, i think the

issue is dealt with, essentially, in a stark population, and a racialization of the states; right? the idea such that islam is something from 500 miles away or from 500 years in the past, and it's not something that can be american, so to speak, and to answer the question, yesterday does, in my opinion, reenforced the importance where the idea is to establish authoritative figures that can go out and from within the muslim community, not just craft, but also tell a narrative that combats that stereotyping; right? where the idea is not one that says you're innocent until proven guilty, but contra to it, you're a suspect unless you tell us you deserve to be here.

being able to engage young men and women coming from a variety of ethnic and cultural backgrounds and empower them to go out, be the ones sharing this narrative to segments of society that i think are really looking for answers to questions that, unfortunately, those who don't always have the best interest of the islam are the ones out there answering right now, so i'd say daytuna in my per perspective is that much more important in trying to deal with that; right? correct me if i'm wrong and displaying my ignorance, but the issues of yesterday are suspicions. it's not concrete as to who's done it, but the natural inclination, and depending on what news channel you watch, whether it's cnn, it's, you know, officers are with the gentleman in the hospital who is of arab background, and if you're watching fox news, it's

officials have caught a potential suspect who is of a saudi national; right? the story's told to the audience receiving it that just perpetuates it, you know what i mean? >> yeah. should we -- maybe one more question if there is one. >> i wanted to ask, this is the first college, the first muslim college in america, are there more? are there people who are kind of taking this as a -- [inaudible] and -- [inaudible] >> i think there is another institution that calls themself an islamic college, but they don't have -- it's not in chicago, and they have cooperative relationship with them with the college, but they don't have the same process. people take classes one semester, not the next semester,

and it's a pay per class rather than a year tuition. they operate on tuition, go there, graduate, you know, move you through, and that is islamic college doesn't work like that. there's all kinds of other educational institutes some related, others not, some with a different message, and they are all negotiating, you know, among themselves, well, negotiating between themself, not an end in that, you know, people sometimes dance around each other and don't know how to interact with each other. i think there's some bit of that, and maybe nervousness or anxiety about who is on the floor of muslim education in the country, and is it going to be, you know, this islam or this islam? there are other people doing educational initiatives, and

they have plans, now, they don't have anything on paper in this planning at that level, but i had a conversation that he said that if they were going to expand, it wouldn't be in berkley. they might have branches around the country, and, again, this is, he didn't say it off the record, but he didn't say it with conviction that this is happening, you know, thinking way in the future, and the other idea they have in terms of education is not to reach forward in age, but reach backwards, to reach younger kids and establish islamic high schools or relationships with the islamic high schools, and there's a lot of those around the country. >> well, i am so grateful for all of you to be here and to ask me and have the questions an