>> as a means to deal with our great challenges. this generation is more apathetic than any generation in history. this generation is more engaged peer-to-peer and volunteering and the data bears that out. >> you can watch this and other programs on line at booktv.org. >> 's, michael d'antonio reports on the sexual abuse scandals and the catholic church in his look "mortal sins." the author examines 30 years of sexual abuse claims against priests and the church's reactions. mr. d'antonio speaks on a panel with the president founder of the survivors network of those abused by priests. reverend thomas doyle, attorney jeff anderson and former priests and monks, patrick whoa. this is about an hour and a half. [applause] >> good evening everyone. i am michael d'antonio the

author of "mortal sins." [applause] with me tonight or the heroes who have lived the story. i have written and co-authored and ghostwritten quite a few books and none of them has meant what this book means to me. this is a book about a genuine civil rights movement. it has been underrecognized and underappreciated for what it has accomplished on behalf of abused children, on behalf of equality, on behalf of the people who are at the church and make no mistake for catholics and for all christians the church is the

people and if you are not a catholic and you're not a christian you can appreciate the concept that we are all one. and there are folks on the stage that have done more to promote the unity of humanity than any people i have ever met so i would like to introduce to you from my left barbara blaine. [applause] barbara is the founder and director of the survivors network for those abused by priests. she has been doing this work since the mid-1980s, when no one else was willing to talk about it, when no one else was there to support the people who had been victimized and people who are fighting for their rights. our roe was there and she was the person who went on television hearst. she alerted the world to what became an international crisis,

and she has devoted her life to this cause. next to barbara is jeffrey anderson. [applause] jeff anderson brought the second lawsuit ever brought against the roman catholic church in america. when a couple whose son was abused by a priest who was then allowed to escape because of the policies and the hirer key, because of the pledge to avoid scandal that all bishops and cardinals take, jeff was the man recommended. he was then and he is now the ornery as lawyer i have ever met and certainly one of the most courageous and most tough-minded attorney that i've ever met and anyone who is ever encountered

him, he is a force of nature. to my right is tom doyle. [applause] when no ordained man would stand up for abused children, tom stood up. [applause] tom was a high flyer. in the mid-1980s he was the man to watch in the catholic hierarchy. he could have had almost any job he wanted in the church and if you don't think that his power, then you don't know the catholic church. this is the most highly developed network in the world. the power and prestige that were available to tom as he worked in the vatican embassy in washington were enormous. when he got the assignment to check out a case of abuse in

louisiana, he took it seriously and check the welfare of children seriously and he valued the welfare of children above his own career. if you don't think priests care about their career, then you don't know priests. this is not a vocation where they hand you things. the ambition in the ranks for the priesthood among bishops is intense and as spiritual as tom was he was an ambitious fellow too and he believed in the church. he believed in what the hierarchy said and he is still a christian man but he has practiced christianity by fighting on behalf of children. because of that, he has been abused in ways that no man should be abused. just one little example, he loses the great job in the

vatican embassy because he is persona non grata because he won't keep his mouth shut. he finds himself work as an air force chaplain and he gets to that golden moment just short of the pension and of course his bishop make sure he loses his job. this is how they roll and this is a man who refused to be intimidated and has become a hero in the movement. [applause] next is patrick wall map. [applause] let's give it to him. [applause] patrick is probably the youngest member of our panel. he was a young monk and became a priest who then pastored churches that have been struck by the scandal, so he came in

two parishes and cleaned up the mess after somebody was accused and then typically shuttled to another parish. this is the outrage of this scandal that "mortal sins" addresses. this is not about the church per se. this is about the management of the church. this is the cover of. this is watergate with a clerical caller on. patrick was a servant and did his best by the people in his parishes but he could not abide what he saw. he has since become a layperson who is married and has a family and has pursued the investigation of cases of abuse around the world. i am singularly impressed by his work in alaska among native alaskans which was absolutely critical to them finding some

bit of justice and he now crisscrosses the world doing good work. [applause] and last but not least is our surprise guest. richard as first a priest and also a monk from st. johns and then as a psychotherapist, social scientist and educator, investigated this problem when no one would talk about it. this was before oprah mentioned child abuse on tv and this was something that i think is important for all of us to appreciate. as late as 1980, the medical tax that physicians read for their education told them that there

was no such thing as child sexual abuse. oh sure there were crazy instances, maybe one in a million, literally this is what was taught. one in a million and richard understood better but he understood more that catholic priests were suffering with the burden of the church's sexual teaching and as a therapist he was hearing over and over again of the problems that ordained men ran into. many of them were criminal problems and he very carefully assembled the first book ever published on this crisis. it in 1990, it was published to great acclaim among those who knew and to great outrage among those who would deny it. richard is the intellectual

father of this movement. he will laugh with embarrassment and he will push you aside with modesty that is genuine, but he is the person who got us thinking about this. [applause] so i think richard, it might be a good place to start to ask you to try to go back to your earliest work and what you heard as you were doing therapy, as you were teaching, as you were listening to your colleagues about the problems of the men who came into your parish. >> my wife mary ann who is a psychiatrist and i have been involved in this sense about

1967, and in the discussion of it, and we were within the bosom of the church, we were trying very much to help the people who were in the church. i am very privileged to be with these people and jeff anderson and tom doyle and i met together at a conference in 1992, and at that time i was still very much gung ho that the reformation was going to come from inside of the church but i knew it was a reformation. and i opened up my talk, welcome to wittenberg. i am not sure where we are now but we are beyond wittenberg. we know certain things that we didn't know or could face then. i did say at that time that the problem we are seeing, that is the sexual abuse of minors by

roman catholic priests is the tip of the iceberg and if you follow it through its origins it will lead you to the highest corridors of the vatican. now in spite of my insight that it was a problem in the priesthood, and that it was a structural problem, i maintained in a minnesota naïveté a little bit like leg wobegon or the town next door. i mean that is where everything good was. i was brought up in a monastery from the time i was 13 years old and i was convinced that they would reform the church. i did some things to help them out at the second convention of survivors. it was held at st. johns in 94 and it was jeff anderson who

converted me. we sat down and i went to ask him could you meet me? i asked him for some money to help out the cause because they had a group that i thought was going to be a real court to the reformation of this and they elected me their chair for two years. i said jeff, help me out put this. he looked at me and he said, they are the worst. they are the enemy. and i shook my head, and i went back to my internal and spiritual drawing board and said the good people i know, they can't really be so -- and yet as i discovered little by little, it was deception after deception and i had

allowed myself to be drawn into it. and maybe some of the good i have done is because i am so naïve that i can ask the kinds of naïve questions. tom doyle and jeff are my spiritual mentors. i went and at third team to be a monk. i didn't want to be an activist and i don't think i'm a very good activists. i am not a good argument or and i don't stand up or a well under adversarial conditions. i am not a lawyerly type of person. i have my ideas and i like to teach. let's talk about it and see what the problems are. so, at any rate, i went on and jeff really did convert me, but he converted me more than just

that. the spirituality of monasticism is the spirituality of radical honesty. that is what monasticism is supposed to do for a person. it is supposed to go through a process by which you face yourself as you are and as all of us know, that is not easy because when we sit down and contemplate things, it can be very pleasant but what will also come out as the dark side of ourselves. and i think that this book is magnificent in its touching the radical honesty of everyone in their. >> i wanted to also bring out the fact that the victims have to be radically honest about what happened to them, and fight

to get some kind of response that honors that radical honesty. barbara, i don't want to put

when i began to realize that something was wrong and they needed help, i mustered a lot of courage and went home and told my mom and dad and they responded appropriately. one of the first things after the shock wore off a little, my dad was saying we are going to have to report this to the bishop. my dad didn't say we have to report this to the police. nothing in me thought of going to the police so we went to the bishop and the head of the religious community and they were kind. they acted as though they cared, but thehavior later showed that they really didn't and

eventually they basically gave lots of empty promises. they promised that they would make sure father warren was never allowed to be around children again. and eventually i learned that just was not true. he was around children all the time and there were no restrictions on him. after the bend -- bishop promise that. in many ways coming to grips with the fact that the church officials were not honest and that they did not live up to the teachings that they promoted, they lacked integrity. coming to that realization in many ways was almost as devastating as the actual sexual violence. as so many of you know that as a lifelong, the implications of that are lifelong for all of us. so the bottom line is that it was in total frustration and anger and hurt that i thought

the church officials are not helping me at all. they are not helping my family and i still needed healing. it was back in the 1980s and those of you who are young enough to remember can remember that was the era of self-help groups. so i thought you know, i just had this attitude like who needs the church officials? we can find each other. we can do some research and figure it out ourselves. so i just looked for other survivors and we talk to each other. this was before the internet but we found each other and we actually tried to get the people here are on this panel to share with us the wisdom that they had and some of them came and talked to our groups and their meetings. we thought we were figuring this out and one thing led to another and we formed support groups and we found it helpful to be together. then people just started doing

the same groups in their own cities and that is how snape grew. >> i think one of the things i try to do in the book and i'm told it has worked, is to show that especially in the beginning folks were doing what they could do in the moment as regular old folk who had a serious issue that no one wanted to talk about and no one on it to address. there was no structure or model for dealing with it. fortunately there was the self-help movement beginning at that time but a lot of what has been achieved over the years and we are talking about billions of dollars paid to people who were victimized and hundreds of people put in prison, certainly the attention that has been riveted upon the church, the

church hierarchy, the bishops and the vatican on this issue has really been made possible by folks who were learning and doing as they made it up and away. this is something i would like jeff anderson to address. he got this case, the this very first case and was a very assertive young lawyer but he had no idea what constituted the hierarchy, no idea that there was this vast organization or that bishops would behave the way that he discovered they behaved. he had to learn. jeff i'm wondering if you could recall for folks the dawning of your understanding of this and how that happened. >> well first, when michael you

described myself and my colleagues as he rose, i never thought of myself as a hero but i have fought every day, every survivor and every family member who supports the survivor who finds the way to break the silence and to share the secret and to take some action is the hero. so it is the survivors and those who stand with them that to me i stand in awe of and at the foot of every day. and thank you to all of you survivors and barbara who started what i call the child's civil rights movement in america. my encounter was in 1983. a mom and dad had come into my office and described that their son had been raped by a priest

repeatedly who had been into the home and they had trusted and learning of that while their son was in trouble and in jail, they immediately as good catholics have gone immediately to the bishop and told the bishop what they had learned from their son and what it happened years earlier. the bishop listened and did not react. they walked out the wilford that he had not reacted. and then a few days later they got a check in the mail from the archdiocese of st. paul minneapolis for $2000 they came into my office with this check in their hands. what do we do? they told me how this had been. and i said, well, reported to

the police and cash that check. and we have reported to the police who said there's nothing we can do because of the -- they said we are not sure. we are not going to. so in 1984, late 1983 and america as for sending the catholic church had never been sued so i didn't have anyplace to look but i knew we had to sue them. and so we did. he had the courage to give me the chance to do that and i somewhat ineptly did but did not make it public. they said what you want? do you want? i said i want the priest out and i want to know who is in charge and i want to know why this happened. they said okay, he is out. what else do you want? i said who is in charge? they said the archbishop. i said i'm putting them under oath and asking how it happened and why it happened. they said that is never happened and never would happen.

archbishops don't give depositions. i said then if he doesn't give a deposition and tell me what happened and why it happened, i'm i am filing this case and making it public. he said okay you got your deposition. that began a journey of unraveling of what richard called the rigorous and dark truths and the pursuit of it and it led to other bishops all of whom told us that they didn't know about this guy all at all of whom lied to us under oath. and then we got a tip from no doubt a priest who said talk to jay kline. after i did i realize that they had known about this for 20 years and they had moved them to 10 different places with full knowledge that he had been raping kids and was continuing to do so. >> this jay kline is a member of a family in which four or five boys had been victimized by the

same priest and people who know about crimes often know that these are serial offenders. this was not news to people who had any sense of how the world works and despite their denials, the ships understood this. >> and they lied about it and then they knew that we knew that they lied about it so they called one day and said, we want to settle. and we want to settle for $1 million we want to settle with the usual confidentiality agreement. i said, did you say usual? they said well that is what we do. i said well that is not what i would do. that is not something i would want greg to do. that is going to be his choice because that is a huge amount of money. that night i did not sleep a wink.

i went to him the next morning and explained to him that they were offering to pay in 1984 a million dollars but he would have to be quiet and i would too. and there were other kids out there suffering and who would be hurt, and i did not sleep last night. he said jeff did you say million dollars? i said yeah. he said oh. i said but what about the other kids? he said you are right. god loves him, he said turn it down, turn it down quick before i change my mind. [laughter] and so i left that meeting and i went back to my office and i got those papers and i filed them with the court, and i called them in and i told them. every day since that day in 1984, i've been working with the courageous survivors like that who had the courage to break the silence and to share the secret and take some action.

why? we know every day because of that the rigorous and painful truths are being revealed and every day in some ways some other children whose name we will never have to know are being protected. in this book, michael captured not only that story but what i think is the child's civil rights movement running across the globe has started in louisiana and st. paul minnesota. i think he captured it in a way that and a depth that both brings great sorrow but deep understanding of the breadth and the depth of what i stumbled upon in 1983 about which i had no clue and about which we now know to be an unraveling and refueling. the good news is we have hit the tip of the iceberg. the bad news is, there is a lot beneath it, a lot of it revealed in this masterwork that he has

spent years as may be two, searching. >> maybe three. one of the things that jeff discovered and much of this book is actually kind of a legal thriller and there's a lot of procedural conflict and a lot of amazing discoveries achieved through serious legwork. detectives going out and checking stories. jeff conducting these depositions that are winnowing and when you read and imagine a bishop saying well little boys heal. it sends a chill down your spine. i also think that it's remarkable to consider that jeff started this work in 1983. we are now 30 years into this and people will say to me, why

is this going on so long? and i think one big reason can be addressed by tom doyle and that is the clerical culture. i think that tom lived in its, works with it, worked against it and discovered very early in this fight and he warned the church of what it faced. back then he guessed it might yet billion dollars and that was in 1985. ..

a and i got into this and i still am not quite sure -- i knew at the events were that have end, but i could characterize it in a lot of different ways and i really find it difficult to look at the characterizations. what changed and kept me on board this mean that the dems and their families, especially mothers and fathers.

but i was ordained in 1970 in the beginning of the 80s as the vatican embassy in washington d.c., deep down inside, an ambitious hoping that this career track would take me a word and get me sufficient if not more. that's where i was and that's what i wanted it of course at that time allotted the acid that nature. however, when this came up, the first encounter i had an edit used the word abuse anywhere. it is violation. i think it's stronger. i don't think we have a vocabulary that can adequately describe, not just individual

acts, but the entire scenario. is way worse than that. it's a phenomenon of some sort, a dark phenomenon. my first encounter in 1982 involved that they should. who had molested a number of children in the steeply covered in being the right for higher position than someone through the whistle on him and was investigated very quietly. nothing ever happened to having there is no contact with the sick tunes. one thing led to another in the scenario he described so well in the vote, my first involvement was with the situation would do the right they.

i was horrified when i read these letters that ss to put into this bio. the ex-father had stuck to at least 100 children. so gradually, this thing unfolded and i thought i was doing the right thing. i gradually realized even back in those days that the system i was part of did not want to do the right thing. they wanted to cover this a. they wanted to disappear anyone who is making too much noise about it. as the years of non-and my involvement went on on, my attitude and understanding of the ecclesiastical system has changed radically. the reason this will go on and the reason it is so

fundamentally shocking is more than just the fact that men who are trusted with everything that they rape children is horrific enough. if you wrap your mind around that this is one of the most heinous crimes there is next to necrophilia perhaps, but grown men raping little boys and little girls are teenage boys and girls it's a rent dispute but then you at the fact it's the world's most gorgeous and not only populating the world, but enabling them, covering for them and to make it even worse, the card-carrying catholics kept pushing the wall and their only alternative is to stand up to

the system, to ask them why? fair punisher having the audacity to challenge the system. what i learned is is the system does not concert one day a bit about the welfare of the boys and girls are mothers and fathers were produced and sisters whose lives they have rent asunder. they are primarily an exclusively concerned about their image, their power, their prestige, their wealth. all the other stuff they do and have done since they've been exposed, the background checks, all the programs, policies that they pat themselves on the back about. no other organization has put in place as many policies and procedures as the roman catholic church. but then there's a line that has to be read and that is the fact.

this is not an opinion. everything that has been done has been forced in the force is not just thing you got to do this. it's been a funny. it has been a site to that any of this happening. why? the system itself really should not be considered in the same mindset for the same sentence of the word christianity or christ because it's an ecclesia circle system, a monarchy that is fundamentally narcissistic and self-serving and the problems will continue. we will not see a radical change as long as the system remains what it is. further stratified society, greece coming weekend part of

other people and believing they are above other people because the higher power and made them that way, which is heresy to say the least. as long as that is the primary value excuse for this to start and self-serving behavior, we will continue to see what we see here what i find profoundly amazing and have all these years, i had the benefit of a massive amount of graduate education and i know a bit about the church history, what happened, what hasn't happened and how it shaped civilization and done all these incredible things. here we have one of the most profound changes taking place. not just calling into account going to court, but a fundamental cultural change with regard to the roman catholic church.ent eroding. the playing field is becoming

equal and this is something that's mind-boggling. why is this happening? because of pension and women had to do more and yes father, no father, but they said it was anything cetacean and all they had going for them was inert action and the truth then i worked. these people are the ones, now the survivors that this is the touche and could not shut up and never will be able to because they are looking out for others in the system is looking out only for itself and that radical dichotomy is what in the end will sink that ship. [applause]

>> i think tom put his finger on it when he talked about this institutional deftness. deftness might not be the right word. there is a willful resistance to information. the other thing that is remarkable and something we learned through the example of other civil rights movement is than the people who are violated stand up and the people who are oppressed simply showed they are being oppressed, if you're going to talk about these issues, if you want to not be shunted aside and say yeah, i am going to talk about the fact that someone abused me and this happens in our community and the system that we can't fix until we face

it. that's the beauty of churros and that's the beauty of what's been accomplished here. pat, you are someone who worked up that early as a fixer inside the church -- inside the institutional church, sent to parishes to put them back together one scandal had struck. i wonder if you could talk to us about what happens to the community that is a church when this occurs in what had them to you personally a young priest. i think you're probably the kind of priests i would've loved to have noticed the kid and all of us are glad to have you among us today. if you could get back to that time in your life and explain what it was like, both having the mission of putting the pieces back together and also the realization needed overtime,

that might help people understand the personal site of this. >> i think the easiest way to begin is the book is something we needed for a long time because we have to answer why the silent, why the silence in the church choir by the silence in society? it really comes down to the largest in the touche and in the united states, one more powerful, more wealthy, which is more influence than anybody else decided internally the crimes were okay. i have a naïve college kid decided to join the monastery. i thought i was going to play college for a while, college for all, teach, live on observatory

floor, that what i thought was going to be a challenge in life. what happened was the opposite and nobody ever told us internally. i found out about are the first anything of because i was on fire duty that night and just happened to watch the news. i didn't find out from reading it on the out the bulletin are. we didn't find out the pagers back to your we found out on the news and that's it began the whole baptism of fire and because of the lawsuits, i got forced into parish ministry and see in the darkness because every person i followed unfortunately was a child

i think the other thing this book does for me is i can use it now to give to parents, to be able to give them a philosophical category and language to understand and talk about all the crimes that have happened in the continue to happen in the church today. because that's the biggest thing. i couldn't explain to another. there's no philosophical background because the church never acknowledged its own history. but having to work on the cases come in the tribunal, finance council to pay for all this, you start to see the knowledge that was fair. if you want to talk about it, pick a century and let's start talking about that. that's how old it is. and it's so deep. my whole life changed.

that's okay. not as much as the families. the mothers and fathers, my god, i can still see their faces are measured their silent screams because those are the kids they raised in unfortunately turned t tobeabused yet that is what still chills me as the parents. i can work with the survivors. the parent i have no answers for in any way, shape or form. what i hope happens is this will be good and ended up eight. a lot of the silence and begin the openness. thank god for the internet. due to how much of what we would be without the internet to connect the dots, to talk to a guy in missouri and seattle and

then work on the case that i've had sitting at the. that is what's changed for the church itself has not changed. the clerics i work with have it changed. when i was sent to st. paul the first time, it was so rotten maxillary bishop is bear from spokane, washington. the head judge of the tribunal as a perpetrator. the pastor is replacing was a perpetrator. the vicar general sent me to live in a different parish because i couldn't limit the parish because another preset a thing going on at the none. how screwed up in the soap opera to? and then we were paying for the priests who had children. one of the powerful things you

need to remember is that is not celibate. we can talk about and that's all we want, but the system is not celibate and we are not living to life of faith. when i left in 1997, i thought this up again in silence. i really did. they can't have a strong. >> thinks, pat. [applause] >> on saturday night, my wife and i were quietly sitting at home come out and maybe even ensuring a glass of wine and i got a call from washington d.c., a man who tom doyle will have been acquainted with. i refuse to cave tom's telephone number because -- they met, never talked to again. >> usage in other mortal sins?

i said yes. he still has acquaintances trees all of their time in the sky. he said one of my friends is on a plane going to go and with underlining it. he met with a friend of his, the cardinal and the vatican and he was having a glass of wine with the cardinal. and the cardinals choked, but blue and then wet white and was taken off to the hospital. i don't know his condition now, but his last words going out the door was he can't do that. i don't know who the he was, whether it was just for mike or tom, but anyway i wanted to encourage you about the effect

of your tale. >> i made a current alternate red and blue. god bless america. there is something here about americanism and this is something i want to talk about. i opened the book at painting a picture of signing on the vatican and 1870. the italian army for unification not gani lawal is a cannonball whistled over the red power roots in the calgary from piemonte rushed in and some of the soldiers died, but it is the end of the vatican strain is a significant ruler over land central italy. at that ball might, church committed itself to becoming a

vampire territory, but amoral empire. be prepared for this a few years earlier by declaring the pope in fallible. non-catholics, i don't know about that, but that is a modern concept. hopes were not infallible until the middle of the 19th century. so they claimed this moral territory for themselves and told everyone else what was moral, causing an awful lot of paying for people while living duplicitous lives themselves. this virality held for a long time but tell that terrible. notice the 60s when people started to question authority and then came along the internet. we cannot underestimate the power of information and how that is allowed the american

idea of equality under the love of democratic rule, of eqal access to all that life has to offer to come into conflict with the monarchy that is the church. another important thing to remember is this is a religion that's also a state. they are allowed diplomatic immunity. there have been lots of secrets from america to rome in diplomatic pouches. but the power the internet, people are able to communicate. documents that emerge in los angeles i specifically talked about cases in mexico or other documents in california to relate to cases in italy activists around the globe to put the pieces together and to get pictures that is unavailable. what we are seeing to some

degree as a cat experience, similar to the arab spring and similar to the democratic impulses and it's not quite happy today. it's not going to happen tomorrow, but there is change afoot been these guys stopped backwards fax machines for the state-of-the-art. people would literally xeroxing out hundreds of envelopes or articles could get circulated around the country. we've come a long way. there's a long way to go. we have a new pope to give some people hope and not others. there's great secret that on this panel about that. the last thing i'd like to ask everyone to address in the gui

can just go for my right l the way across is what you think you'd like to see happen in the immediate future and that the priority should be for those of us who care about children and care about the values promoted by this movement. maybe you can start us off by saying what she see in the next two years. >> what is known about his mate down the lever for secret again. tom and pat and i worked on a book where we drew the documentation from the vatican, things that were, things that were said at 1149, with a terrible problem and the problem is greece are sexually abusing young boys. that's a long time ago and it's

printed up, but that will not go silent again. that will not go unnoticed. that gives us all in terms of supporting case to come forward and i would just like to say, this is not a biography of my life. >> obsoletes committed a few of them probably. >> despite the perp rudeness of the title. >> i think we really want to change things. the common thread i've seen since the first case ever done any 81 was child. almost every case they were gone some way or another, those guys are loaned in child pornography.

we've got to have a child pornography. maybe a different too much mud flying every which way the day, but every single priests in one way or another, whether it's coming back from belgian going back to ireland, forgetting his computer on the plane, but all are involved in child pornography one way or another. >> i've been involved in this long enough to become terminally cynical. i think what we've seen over the past 30 years is a gradual, the steadily increasing revelation of what's always been there, which is the dark side of the institution, the kingdom and monarchy. what i hope happens is simply this. this nightmare has lifted rates probably millions of men and women who have been profoundly

harmed by the violation of the priest in the can and the spiritual and emotional violation of the clerics, bishops and cardinals who not only failed to help them, but harm them even more. but the institution has not been able to do yet this figure out or even discover the importance of reaching out to these men and women and their families and helping them. to me, maybe we can change the system. make them do things, make them how to program some policies and someone so forth it duties silly hats killing services, but until they figure out and understand each out to them,rmed people and

that's where the church is that it. but the helping each other. there's a kind of back who does this all the time and i'm sure that is almost profoundly painful job because there's so many. it's almost what is this ever going to end? this new pope is going to make a difference if you make some heads roll quickly. not waiting around. fire a bunch of these guys at the top is not going to happen. somehow or other they realized to have to do a crazed to do what christ would do is reach out and understand and listen to the agony, the pain, the suffering. he would be hiring lawyers to clobber the vic times as much as he possibly can and that is what is going on, baby down in the

trenches. when that starts to happen and we can see that come and then we know there's the beginning of something queen of change, but not until. [applause] be mac three-part spirit awareness,, understanding and action. we are aware now that we have a peer monarchy, the most powerful in the world that and it is vested so much power and civilization there is no other like it. in the office of the pope, there is the power to demand complete obedience and requires secrecy in order to preserve reputation to preserve that power. we also come to understand through the american legal system and encouraging survivors

that we can expose the hierarchy for their corruption. absolute power corrupts absolutely and there is absolute corruption at the top. what we can do now that we are beginning to understand through the work of so many survivors in this work as well just call to action. that is to demand and require the cozy and culturally at the vatican disgorges so of all its secrets held worldwide by every bishop at the vatican fitted make sure none of the clerics at the top tolerated or become complicit in this kind.

if we required them to remove every bishop, there wouldn't be any left because there are required to obey acute secrecy. and a lot of requires that. they also demand they operate, not their own internal laws. we also have to demand that there be an inclusion of women and not the exclusion of women in anybody that is a critical thinker. everybody sits in a critical closer is male mail and required to obey a end if they don't come at great peril they will be removed. that's the way it works and that's why there's so few like tom doyle out there still in a

critical culture. finally, there has to be an knowledge meant that they are required to surprise their sexuality by this nonsense called celibacy. let's get real about that and transparent and honest about that because it does not cause abuse any more than marriage causes. when it leaks out in the said three children and vulnerable adults, what happens under the requirements of most of the pope? keep the secret? await scandal? that's why they have the crisis because the top requires it. if and when they become inclusionary instead of exclusionary and feel the heat

for cathay, non-catholic continue to feel the heat from the media and the heat from the survivors and families, worldwide they will have no choice but to either fall or to dissemble and make them the truth. until they feel that he at the top, we have not seen real fundamental change. i hope we can because i see what happened in the last 30 years and it took them 2000 years is only taking together all of us 30 years to begin the awareness, the understanding and the cost of action. i'm grateful to have been a part of it.

[applause] >> it's really difficult to die last. i feel there seems to be so much to say. so everything being shared here today its current. we're not talking about everything from history or to ascend this is all in the past because children are at risk today. an example of that is something that happened in my neck of woods in the chicago area. two weeks ago we were informed about an accused priest that have been removed from the parish of saint pius the 10th and these parishioners let us

know it was determined it was not safe for father corby know to be in the parish. so he had been quietly transferred to work in a hospital. a big major medical center outside of chicago and is working as a chaplain there. when they learned about this, we went to the hospital, gathered the evidence i presented it to the hospital staff and within hours he was fired from the hospital and the next day the diocesan officials were saying they had informed the hospital and he was beaten on under and the hospital course tonight that. but then a reporter asked a spokesperson for the diocese, what are you going to do now? and his response was father

corby know is going to have to be a very strict ministry. do you notice that he didn't say he's being fired? so we know these predators are out there and so many people have tires that were to expose that. we know it happened in the airspace east of philadelphia. it is exposed in no small part due to the work of professor marci hamilton who is sitting in the back year from the cardozo school of law and an attorney from pennsylvania. her aspirated many others hope the grand jurors to see pictures. what did they discover? out one or two, but 37 accused

priests were working in the archdiocese of philadelphia just two years ago. i suspect that if professor marci hamilton in every diocese working with grand jurors, we would find the exact same result in the other diocese said in philadelphia. we have the survivor moved and over the past several years have been feeling that frustration that several people talked about the acknowledgment that the only time the church officials do something to remotely begin to make things right are really try to protect children to her. they deactivated the end it always comes from external sources pressuring them to do so. so with that frustration, thinking of the enormous amount of pain and suffering that those

of us this movement have what is and not just survivors, but those who did not survive. from the victims who took their own lives because they couldn't handle the pain of right now we have close to 400 families who contacted us about their loved one who committed suicide after dealing with this silence at the hands of the priests. but that frustration several years ago we started talking to each other instead, who has the authority in our world that can stop the vatican? we couldn't figure out who that might be, but we explored and determined the place to go is the international criminal court and what we found in the kidnap evidence is that church

officials, the top ranking vatican officials are involved in committing crimes against humanity. the evidence is so clear. it's happening all over the globe and we had the fortune of meeting people at the center for constitutional rights in their right around the corner from here. they're making a huge impact across the globe and they heard about her situation and they agree to take a case to the international criminal court to bring the pressure under the vatican had our lead attorneys with us today. that case content is and pam and her staff have presented a submission to the international criminal court and will contain

over 20,000 pages and pieces of evidence that these crimes. and last survey compiled another submission so in 2012, another 10,000 or 15,000 documents were submitted. all of the people who contribute are making a big difference with one goal in mind and that is to protect children and vulnerable adults. i want to invite all of you here in the campaigns and to note there is a place for you regardless of which are time constraints are and what she might be able to do. if you want to help, please know you are welcome. thank you.

[applause] >> thank you, everyone. i don't think it is often that an author gets this kind of support from people who have led a movement that has achieved so much of the fellow c and to write the book, he navigates the personalities and stories of a line to appear tonight, trying to share with you which is a story of tragedy, and but also answers some hope because we are talking about it. this is not something that would have been talked about decades ago in the progress made so far israel and tangible and mostly how we feel about the institution now.

the plan acceptances gone. i hear a lot of complaints. but if that's a good priests? we now judge each of them as they find them and that's how it should be. respect should not be for the collar. it should not be for the office as much as it should be for the man who is the pastor. i think we may have that one day. a lot to express my gratitude for everyone coming tonight. the men and women in this pursuit has moved me like no group has ever moved me. i'll never let go of them. we've handed out cards if folks have questions to ask, we would love to answer them. i see some of the ache in every down here.

before we finish tonight, there's going to be one announced that made, maybe two. so for a signature with the questions and see who has the psp that before we take the questions, and needs to be said but i have read this participated that this is an extraordinary work that when you began this journey, this odyssey, you had no idea what you get into here. as you travel the globe with hundreds if not thousands of witnesses, tens of thousands of documents across the globe that she began to realize the magnitude of the breadth and depth of this.

when he did record does for us to not share them and it airs cyrus the great hope, you also gave it to yourself is and sacrificed for the loving support of your family for this kid and to you for your wisdom, grace encourage them speaking in the unspeakable church and bring in a tourist. [applause] >> here's a very interesting question. it your more recently involved in parish is, there's a

question, our priestly tears in the boy scouts? this is insane that barbara can address. the strength of boy scouts one. >> boy scouts are instructive because they keep their file with the catholic church does. they keep all the knowledge. i know people laughed at the census and the sits in the office is on its defense lawyers pedagogic, but they do preserve document. there is a phenomenon benefit priest seeks to be a boy scout leader or girl scout leader because it's a red flag and any adult knows that. you know, i did not want to be involved in the girl scouts, but i got hooked and because my daughter wanted to try a four-year period he do it for

your kids and your kid out, find reverse as soon as you can. so when you see it are you seeking position no come you know it's a red flag. hopefully now we learn ever going to move forward on that. >> this is a question you might address because you come in contact. is the media allowed to address the abuse issue over and over again? >> the evidence is in the soup so to speak. it's in the press frequent lane. let's be clear. and society, if you think of what is going to make the 10:00 or here at 11:00 news, there's 30 minute news and

sports and weather and 15 minutes can fill it with so many other things. if you think about it, no one feels comfortable talking about sex and sexuality. would become more sustainable wanted in child sex with a child or an adult who's vulnerable and then you talk about potentially someone who is a cleric. there is this gross out kind of feeling. so we understand society is not a comfortable topic to talk about. there's other things to talk about, people will do so. at the same time, the reporters survey to investigate, it isn't

painful, but the outcome these children are safe and a good reason to do that. >> the bigger problem on this issue is that the ship pr machine has persuaded the people worldwide was a problem that was instead of a problem that is. that is an absolute living lie. they have not fundamental changes until their fundamental changes, the problem is now and not wise. >> one short sentence. what chipset is absolutely sure. it's kind of ironic diocese has to have a public relations to convince the public they are

doing what they should be doing. another little fact kuwait, the public relations firm los angeles archdiocese has detained to help them clean airmanship is the same when ayn rand. [laughter] what jeff said is true as they have massive amounts of money trying to convince everyone that made it go away and i used to get upset about that myself. i know it's not going to go away if something is going to happen. there'll be an explosion somewhere that will destroy and be back again in the news that will be prominent in people will see is a major problem and will continue to be one as long as the that causes it to be is still the way it is.

>> here's a question relates to this issue a bit. what is the result actinic they don't dalen's deposition? >> it was taken recently to be released very soon. the dalen will review a long-standing pattern maxillary scale that demonstrates the same pattern emplaced across the country across the bold but that collects at the top are required to make choices every day and they are required to choose to protect the institution and the brand and the reputation of the

hierarchy, what they call the church because of that, that requires him another site can to cover up, to deceive, to mislead and to protect the reputation at the peril of the innocent now and in the future. >> richard, here's a question for you. can you comment on the expression institutional blackmail? >> celibacy is not practiced. i made a statement public in 1990. i got a letter whose -- at any one time, no more than 50% of priests and bishops are practicing cello b.

in 1993, the church but not international conference on celibacy. the cardinal, josé sanchez post the question by the bbc reporter. at 45% to 50% of priests at any one time or not practicing celibacy. he said that a recent to doubt the accuracy of those figures. this figures are low. here's the way it works. if a priest is having sex with somebody, who publicly is presented, whether a man or

woman, but that is registered in what i call the cloud of secrecy comes to confession, comes to telling your buddies, other people knowing. that is the son of knowledge that is they are in access within the church. clerics know about the lives of other clerics and it's especially true as they move up in the hierarchy. that is where the blackmail is. i've seen this written out in the diocese that one of the bishops, archbishops came into a place he was going to pay the screws on different disciplinary things. we had a group of priests who got together and said, you know, we know this to us in this about

you and you put pressure on us and we are going to do this. i got the word blackmail used by bishop reynaud and tucson that the priest commemorated a set foot, you've got these -- even pcs boost. he says he's got to go to treatment. he said i will go to treatment. he said if you try and force me, i will make public until the arizona press that bishop james rauch is having relations with you boys. he wrote this to the vatican embassy. when you think of the fun knowledge in the church, come see what i call the crime of confession.

confession is a good thing for the soul. it can be very good for us to share. i think one of the most -- the greatest institutions that exemplifies this are the 12 step movements or people burkett at the say this is me and misses some of the stuff that done. no pretense, no excuses and so one. see you at that mistake, that mistake, but the catholic church says it's not true. they presell common and say i am on touched. i am. my body and everything. it's not sure. it's an s. because the knowledge is there in a high level and i could literally give you more than two dozen cases just off the top of my head where this has been

found. so it is the claim they have on each other. i noticed about you. i was with you. after one of those things people put me down for that's fine. i'll never win this case. but after it went public, a case against cardinal or to dean. cardinal are getting done at the same 65 years old and i've always lived a chaste and celibate life and you who are brought up catholic and have gone to school, you know what that means if he did say that. a priest from atlanta flew to baltimore for no other reason -- he said i want you to know that bernadine was active because i have been with him when he was active with seminarians.

okay, that is a fact. nobody in the hierarchy -- they will slap me down for saying that. but that is part of the truth that is in this cloud and it is about other cardinals. we know this. i've had five priests from newark have attached the new jersey told me about sex with cardinal mccarrick. when i was a seminary faster, the students came to me. i had over 500 student in the years i taught college. they come to me and say i've got a problem. i belong to this diocese and the bishop invites us out to his summer home of the jersey coast anyone familiar sleep with peer

device maybe five people in every night somebody has to sleep with him. they say this makes me uncomfortable. okay, i know that. i am not some savant, but the point is i paid attention as 1962 what people have to say about the practice of celibacy and i will say this tonight. jeff has really made the point that mandatory celibacy within the catholic system is part of the root cause of abuse of minors. i know abuse of all incomes and so on, but within the catholic culture, within the society, mandatory celibacy is one of the main causes. why? because of the secret lives,

because of the compromises. it doesn't make any difference whether the bishop is having a relationship with a woman or a man, the gardener or somebody else. and a sense, that truth is there and there will be a certain number of people in that culture and in that population when they have to make her feel they have to make a compromise with their urge is will do it with minors and that is part of the culture. >> we kept you here a. one more question and i want to remind folks of fake info contact information, i know that snape would like to be in touch with anyone who would like to be in touch with them. if you want to leave your e-mail address, i know barber would like to have it. anyone who would like to make a donation to snap, they would

receive our secular blessings for that. there is one announcement that is going to be made at the end of this program. the last question, jeff, is for you. it is what can we do now? >> the answer, every single one of us can do some thing today to make sure we protect the kids in the future and do something to help those that have been wounded. and it is contact your state lawmaker, demand and request in writing and i found that the statute of limitations be removed when it comes to holding institutions and offenders slickly responsible because the

statute of limitations in most every state across the u.s., that the roman catholic bishops have lobbied against reform and it is that statute of limitations, that public policy that prevent many, if not most survivors access to the courts, access to the truth, access to the documents and access to the chance to reveal the history of the past so it doesn't repeat in the future.