slavery is in many ways the same for property in this case what you've done is by defeating the opposed force, you have the right to kill them. you could have done so and by spending their life they effectively zero their life to you, but as you well, also of course the reason and the political rationale for taking control of, for the saddle, the americas, is that they were not disposing of it very well at all and there was a mandate given to make the best use of the territory since taking control of this of private property and making it into private property and applying them methods of production which are straightforward is a justification for that process and as you progress through the history of liberalism you often find it intertwined with on the one hand a defense or quite

radical ideas in the idea that individuals do not vote difference, the idea that, you know religious authority should be separated from political and so on. you find that intertwined in the idea that only applies to a certain restricted number of people so throughout, what happened is that the group of people who were included in the liberalism and its promise expanded so it started off being upper-class men, you know, they were entitled to vote and to all the freedoms of the liberal state gradually expanded to include women and to include working class men and women and eventually to include people in the united states and south africa and the regimes were dismantled so there's been

tremendous changes and would be foolish to say that the intervention today is just a reiteration of the of ideology. however there are certain continuity is. and certainly the idea, the fundamental idea that the problems are best solved by somebody from without who doesn't have to defer to them. you don't have to ask them, you just go in and say you're welcome. that is fundamentally a colonial idea that if it wasn't a colonial idea it would be fundamentally wrong and misguided because of the consequences that it has but because i have a fundamental egalitarian believe that people should be charged in their own destiny and if they are asking for help, that's one thing and you are generally having a conversation with them you can take actions they might ask you to take but that doesn't happen to be the case when you are talking about states going to the war.

>> host: how well do your books to in the u.s. and have you done a book tour? >> guest: i have. my books don't sell in the u.s.. "unhitched" as probably the first that's gotten any attention in the press at all. thus far it sort of makes the review obviously i don't think the reviewer liked it very much. the denver post was a bit more positive but that's the first time i'd had any coverage in the american press. the only book tour i've done is for american insurgents, and i did a tour of the sort of east coast. i went from d.c. to philadelphia, boston and new york but then there was mainly a case of presenting the buck to the left-wing activists. i'm going to america in april. i will be doing a book tour again at the east coast talking to as many audiences as i can

attract and they will be bigger this time because the interest is fairly broad so i'm looking forward to it. >> host: finally, richard seymour, you mentioned you have been a member of the socialist workers party but recently resigned. why? >> guest: the leadership of the party handled an allegation in a way that i thought was indefensible and a number of us tried to reverse that and reform the party in ways that would mean such a mistake couldn't happen again. at a certain point we find we are unable to do so or at least we decided we were unable to do so about 70 or so is left. i would expect that others will

leave at a later date. all i can say is that the reasons why people have been in the party and the reasons many remain believing that they can reclaim at are probably the same reasons why past generations of intellectuals have been members of the party not because they believed in every single part of orthodoxy that was open to the heterodoxy. i hope i'm wrong and i wish those that stayed in and to reform the party i wish them all well to read some of the most

committed and talented people that i've ever known that for me the party is over. if people want to contact you what is the website? >> guest: they can get in touch by the website international blogs what, blogspot.uk that they can get in touch by that means you have to talk to them. >> host: this is book tv in london talking with author richard seymour. the author of three nonfiction books and co-author of several more. he's been in violent football clubs and the english criminal justice system.

>> what is a hooligan? >> guest: it is a gang member that causes violence on the football stadiums, goes back since football began but in the modern world it is something that developed after in the 60's after the lack of the subculture >> host: how did it develop? >> guest: england won the world cup and it teaches that the whole thing was in the war and in the culture developed on the fashion and as aggressive and chose a gang violence and

once they didn't know the underground movement was so violent, once they realized it had gone nationwide they took up the ability beyond the goals and you had some thinking of 1969 when they called the spirit of 69 and what they meant by that was the culture in london they had spread the whole u.k. and from that moment onwards with the media and the newspapers, the football violence and the headlines but we know today. >> host: where did the term hooligans' come from? >> guest: it comes from the family back in the early 19th century from south london.

>> host: what was or is the icf? >> guest: it was the most notorious. they took them from the way they traveled which is first class and football trouble was cheap but as a working-class movement they can travel first class and it is up another level and address to buy a lot of films today and is the kind of almost [inaudible] people full to stereotype a football hooliganism on

right-wing working-class but by then it moved in to people from all walks of life that have jobs, some more middle class and business likes it became firms instead of the gangs and they become organized in a businesslike way. >> host: is the culture cingular inlet? >> guest: it spread to the international level because the media news it got picked up in europe and then copied. it went to the international level falling and caused worldwide headlines and then the youth culture.

i would say from the boy is from every source. that all of around the world is a mixed confession and it's not just the football is the whole subculture. i would say that it is 90 seconds that it is 90 minutes they will talk of the football stadium said there was something more going on and it's interesting because the mode they did a lot of research real-world and it's interesting in russia just the other year we copied a lot immediately and there were passion that friends

but that is what we called the evidence and thus british subculture throughout the company regions so it's kind of move into eastern europe and russia, south america, asia now picking up on a culture which was a fashion that had come from the terms of the violence. >> host: what was your role in the icf? >> guest: we look into my background really. i was adopted and -- >> host: i'm sorry, adopted bananas? >> guest: dr. bernardo.

it's an adoption agency. have six weeks old boy was taken in by the parents, my mother and father were both white and the nearest community was five towns away so this was before britain as multi-cultural pitting the line was about 11 all of these cultures. i was always a ball lead as a kid -- always bullied as a kid. because i was black and i was a bigger kid. it's pure racism but when you are brought up in the establishment of anything else was similar, the same problem, the more ignorance of the culture but it's not help and i found the quality only three

fighting. something different happened. for once i wasn't seen as black. i went to school and it was an issue of black-and-white. i went to football and played and for the first time ever i was accepted and the people said to me it was a football game so my loyalty was a way to prove to the world of that volume worth something and i'm going to be a football game. i ended up in prison and a very young age. >> host: why? >> guest: football violence, causing a rye yet. >> host: outside the stadium? >> guest: outside the stadium. there was a cup final.

there was a rival team and was a bad night of violence. people were injured. the public was screaming for an example to be made so i ended up in court. >> host: were you the leader of the time, were you treated fairly? >> guest: i was pretty influential. i was made an example the first football fan to be given a lengthy sentence so it's the first time from that age at the age of 20. there was talk on the problems

of football violence that seemed to be where they were in the dated and sat thinking i come from the working class. estimate it seemed to be about rehabilitation seemed to be the mode and i was aware in prison i was a young man talking about rehabilitation to change there is no responsibility for anyone. so i looked at myself and the fact that i was and all of these newspapers and people were talking about we've got a different story. i couldn't figure out all of this was going on.

the one who could figure out things was a very big person by writing. >> host: writing in prison? >> guest: finally i started this rehabilitations of the first time in prison you have 23 hours in a self and the only way out if you took an hour out to do any clauses for education. i couldn't believe there was a lot of people that couldn't read or write. they needed it so why use the english class is to build the exercise. when i failed to realize is.

i had never read books. the education was working class people and the teachers used to come with a sunday times or the guardian newspaper and they would give us an animal farm and we would read books. [inaudible] we picked on every kid with these books. so the next term [inaudible] that he was the main author and this hard-core prisoners spent

more years inside a fan out and he was my cell mate. i said i don't read books. one day i challenged him and i said why did you find me this book and ytd keep reading books? it's all you do is read books and these prisoners are outside looking for the next chapters. he says your free. i said what you mean we are in his prison cell with four walls. he said you're getting out of there. i said no way. [inaudible] i said how did you work out that you are getting out? he said right now and he opened up the book and he said i am on the moon.

i said i want to change cells he said where are you? i said i am in the cell. he said a chapter 1 puts me right on the moon. that is when i first started. they are misunderstood from the day that i was adopted by white foster parents. that is my way to fame and fortune and it's never that easy. i come out of prison and the day that i was released the prison officers said you are not allowed with anything you didn't come into prison life. and all we have on me that my possessions i came in with and the wally thing i didn't come in

with for now about 14 exercise books. often all it kept hearing was rehabilitation. no word, no value. the prison officer said that our property. he said what is the stand on the exercise book? i looked at the stand and was a service as the government. it's not yours. i spent my whole sentence i would be doing more time and that's what was all about.

so i would watch them through those exercise books and my life story term than in 2008. who was waiting for me, the gang. >> the icf. >> and within a year i was back in prison for gang violence >> host: how long was the second sentence? >> guest: it was for a year. in the football game as one was going on. i felt like at the time he was multi-cultural and he had come

to protest and defend the innocence of a black man. so my loyalty from that moment spent a year making an album in the studio. the people power and those people were there for me in the society to the weather and everything i only saw colored. i thought i'm going to pick up that pen and write a book again and one more time i was fighting inside.

>> host: in prison? >> guest: this time i speak to but this time in prison officers were smuggled on visits. 24 years later the wife of a famous gangster was writing a books for the former editor of the sun without a publishing label and there's only crime books. there was no black street figure so they had hard bastards as the tide of the book and i said why

did you come to me? she said i kept hearing your name and i want different kinds of people to keep boxing to boxing and gangsters -- i said i'm no longer that person. i've turned my back on violence. she said i would like to chat with you but i know who you are and you can't put me in your book. i settled down now. she wants me to be someone i was she said [inaudible] you spend all those years trying to get published. there is a chapter in the book she gives you a shout and says

because it is simply what is already in your book. and i did. and i had 20 minutes listening to you and i actually went there with the book at the icf because no one person is bigger than a gang. so i went with bouck number two. and just you've got one chance for a job interview. so speaking now on the authority to do this book because anything written. people studies of cultures. i have the story from within looking out. he said your story reads like a movie. he said i want to give you your dhaka to i want to or what.

he said i want a second book from new on the icf. then it became a best-seller and he said congratulations you just met your icf. they span the whole industry when they opened up a new marketing of books and the working class is walking through the airport with books and they say will you sign the books and there's a whole shelf of these books. my books are for sale?

[inaudible] all they want is your books and you are the most popular and so i realized over the years if i had account for every person that comes out to me and says [inaudible] i would be very well the author. >> you opened with a story of your being shot. what is that story? >> guest: the story of being shot was real and the culture and this is important to me because at the time i was seeing other you've come other generations more powerful in the gang violence, and i'd been through the full circle and i was shot coming out and i moved

to quell the land and found security, which is a legal way of being hanged. so being shot three times in a nightclub is when they took over and the drugs were getting involved in the club's and the big business called up and ended up being shot three times and the doctor said the only reason that you are alive is your size and will to live. one of them said it doesn't matter [inaudible] >> the experience affected.

it was in danger of being on the violent side of its on that kind of level. the experiences from someone where you are setting is in the target in the crowd that is extreme violence. and i felt there were a lot of people down and i want to lead a life that i lead. i want to show them where it goes and to really know what they're stepping into and make them think. so that's why it was important to me. ..