deserves to be going into a lot more deeply than i was able to. >> host: tell me if you were to do a follow-up to the book, would you jump right in with 1980, or where is your next moment? does ago 1979, 1989, will that be the next part? >> guest: that's a great question but i don't think i will write about a year again but i think i will write about something totally different. >> host: absolutely. it's really interesting to an instance of a bunch of gotten so far, what have you made of what the critics have to say? >> guest: i feel like a lot of people got the book. when you write a book like this you're sitting alone in your living room and you were wondering and i just a nutcase or are people going to understand some of the points i'm trying to make. so far it's been very gratifying. i think a lot of people have understood exactly what i was trying to say but, of course, i am making an argument to a certain degree, but if you just want to read the story and

examine the lives of these incredible characters and stories they're going to th buti think that is quite in the pic you don't necessarily have to buy my larger argument about ideology and counterrevolution to know that i think you can just enjoy it as a historical narrative. i hope. i tried to write a book that would have different levels, yeah, something for everyone. >> host: congratulations on the book and thank you again for this very interesting conversation. there's a lot of spillover good luck with the book to her. >> guest: thanks very much. >> that was "after words," booktv signature program in which authors of believes nonfiction books are interviewed by journalists, policymakers, legislators and others might with him into. transport fares every weekend on booktv at 10 p.m. on saturday, 12 and 9 p.m. on sunday, and

12 a.m. on monday. you can also watch "after words" online. go to booktv.org and click on "after words" in the booktv series in the topics listed on the upper right side of the page. >> here are the best selling political nonfiction books according to political bookshelf tthis list reflects sales as of may 16.

to see more on these books and of the list on political

politico.com/bookshelf. .. which is not at the top of the women's rights agenda in a country where 20 million women live in poverty, 4 million a domestic violence. i wouldn't say it number one

issue of concern, that it is a you think about all the ways women are held at, literally and figuratively buy their shoes. it was trapped with a group of very high powered wind and at a meeting of the american bar association commission on women. we were trying to get between distant meetings point then there is a huge cat line and bob skinner and the queen mother was having a great day, so we needed to walk. as three women who are unable to do this given they are pathetic choices and footwear. i was struck by that experience and coming back on the plane from one to was reading one of the tabloid summer issues about

shoe sales and seeing four-inch heels and other choices hugest newer setup for problems. 80% of laymen have foot or back problems largely connected to footwear. so in the course of that flight, i began pending an op-ed about women experience and my assumption that if you are a true misogynist, the last refuge for you would be designing women's footwear. "the new york times" ran it as an op-ed probably got a response than anything i've ever written. people flooded my e-mails with stories, podiatrist came to me with the research and it got me thinking about the broader set of issues and ways that women are hobbled by appearance.

the other thing that triggered my interest was about the major issues the women's movement has tackled, appearance is the one we've made the least progress, the last half-century. more women today are dissatisfied with their bodies than was true 25 years ago and summarize an eating disorder or cosmetic surgery. the problems are growing worse, not better. so why we've made such little progress and what are the individual and social cause of appearance for stigma and discrimination is properly called today to make a big. >> host: professor rhode, 90% of women consider luxembourg to their self-image and over half of young women reported they would refer to be hit by a truck can be fat. two thirds would rather be mean or. more than a third of obese

individuals are willing to risk death in order to lose 10% of their weight. three quarters will assume the risk for 21st. >> those statistics speak volumes about the extent to which appearance is overvalued in our culture and binary definitions of attractiveness that we have required women to conform to. >> host: is a chess? >> guest: men are penalized to a lesser extent. short men, for example, balding men are the consent discrimination and many of them are goons of grooming codes they really restrict these for self-expression. so why can't men wear an earring? or have an african american related hairstyle, zero.

so it is not just a women's issue, but women have been desperate for shelley to the consent discrimination and most of the surveys that report to discrimination, for example, based on weight are mainly targeted by women. >> host: unattractive individuals receive less favorable retreatment in setting including higher center this summer damage awards in simulated legal proceedings. >> guest: we underestimate to which the appearance plays a role in shaping what should a decision based on other criteria. in my own profession, for example, attractive teachers get better course evaluation and i raided the higher unintelligence , so it really permeates our culture to a

greater extent than most of us notice. >> is very legal >> my day job is i was interested in what market play in trying to combat discrimination based on appearance. in general, received a discrimination based on other inherent characteristics except in a few jurisdictions, we don't have discrimination based on appearance. i want to know about what the cost of lacking those prohibitions are. and with the experience has been in the jurisdictions that have the laws. it is often claimed if he were to try to ban appearance related discrimination, it would have the perennial parade of horrors

can just the chorus would be to loosen frivolous claims and people would lose respect for civil rights law generally once it became preoccupied with these matters. that's not the experience in the one state or the six or so jurisdictions at appearance discrimination. >> host: what is the x and in those areas that have prohibition? how do you -- is amended by judgment? >> guest: the cases that are brought tend to be ones where it's really clear and the ones that succeed are always for the violation is fairly acree just be a so for example if you have disco, there was a case of an aerobics are denied a franchise because she didn't project a fitness and manage the company wanted. she was perfectly fit.

she taught back-to-back aerobics classes. she had no trouble attracting students. got a lot of publicity. the company was amazed to learn all sorts of people called into the talkshow saying they liked having an aerobics instructor that will like them. in a society where it is than any size that to be the goal since fitness is much more related to how and low body weight, it is a matter of societal concern we try to project that ideal and not stigmatize people who are overweight, but who are fit in perfectly capable of doing the job they apply for. >> host: deborah rhode, what about companies pioneering an overweight visual or denying

employment to an overweight individual? in the company's perspective they think health care costs, productivity, it better? >> guest: sure, let's make that the explicit basis, not overweight per se. there is a case of one of these jurisdictions that had poured in wary fast food chef who is overweight applied for a position i didn't get it. he had that position call for no customer contact. so why should be the issue how he cuts, not how it looks. >> host: what about discriminating on the basis of health. that's a little bit out of the bailiwick here. smokers are overweight individuals should they be allowed are not allowed to be hired? >> guest: i'm a little out of

my comfort zone and this book. there are health considerations, but also we don't want a society in which we make employment decisions on preexisting conditions just like insurance companies to deny coverage on that round. so i think that should he do focus. appearance shouldn't be a proxy for how had >> host: besides a fitness company that has a image they want to project for somebody who's heavy, where do you get into -- where is the slippery slope? >> guest: you know, in many cases it is pretty clear only attractive individuals need apply for positions like sales

or waitresses are part-time nurse, even though individuals with excellent customer service, record have attempted to retain those jobs. so you ought to be looking at what the job actually entails. a lot of companies say people would just rather buy from attractive folks. that argument is not totally unlike what weight business owners said during the upper celebrates area. we reject that customer preference in those cases. we rejected it as a defense of the airlines came in. young attractive women and put them in costumes because airmail business travelers like flying skyward with love. the court said that's not the

essence of the job and we need the same kind of effort to level the playing field with respect to other forms of appearance related discrimination. >> host: you also read about the beauty business. what role does it play in much of carl the beauty bias? >> guest: there's a huge financial stake in making them think that a product will be the answer for them. the result is quite a number of products with unsubstantiated and oftentimes ludicrous claim appeared in a police seaweed will reverse the aging process and various mineral creams that will melt the pounds away. but then an entire fashion and women's magazine industry on

attract events with well sculpted ato component, et cetera that very few women can conform to and given the pervasiveness of imagery and our culture were really perpetuating quite unrealistic standards of appearance and comes at a cost of self-esteem and stigma for many women. postcode significance of appearance begins early. even if it gerlach red attractive faces. 11% of surveyed couples would abort a fetus genetically predisposed to obesity. parents and teachers get less attention to less attractive children and are less likely to be viewed as good, smart, cheerful, likable and than a more attractive counterparts.

>> host: is that the society we want? a phrase that is a rhetorical question. i hope the answer is self-evident. child beauty pageants are a logical extension of that attitude. we are pumping billions of dollars into images of toddlers at trs who have highly made up faces and plucked eyebrows and so forth. you know, is that what we really want are gross to aspire to? i think there's broader cultural issues that need to be addressed here. >> host: professor rhode come and you consider yourself a feminist? >> guest: i do. >> host: page 76 of the beauty bias. those who divide conventional standards are ridiculed as homely harpies, those who comply with this miss this hypocrite.

jane fonda's decision to abreast implant and other procedures seem to contradict everything she advocates can you help us when confronted by the contradiction, fonder responded i never has to be a role model. i don't pretend to be different from any other women. >> host: i think that's a perfectly legitimate responsibly to lower our exit nations for feminists as much as everyone else. the issue is less individual choice is people make, but what they can do is to foster a culture tolerant of a range of choices is the ideal habitat nice. and much of our life, jane fonda has worked for that and then that is where positive

cobuli to be assessed. >> host: is it getting worse or better in your view? >> guest: i think we're making no progress on this issue. and yet because of the pervasiveness of these images of attract defense and the role they play in our culture is no accident the fastest growing specialty is cosmetic surgery. it's shocking women to form their feet to fit into what we call killer shoes. so much of that surgery seems like it's on a necessary from a societal point of view ite no the basic health eds of so many that this

suddenly as the growth area and medicine are to make think twice about perhaps our preoccupation that it's gotten out of hand. >> host: deborah rhode is professor of law at hanford. director of the legal profession here and the program in law and social entrepreneurship. she is former chair of the american bar association's commission on women in the profession. she also clerked for supreme court justice thurgood marshall. she's written several books. at stanford he talk about your colleague, condoleezza rice and "the beauty bias" as well. when you write about her? >> guest: there's a barbie doll that looks like condoleezza rice, which is one of the markers of some progress on this issue. >> host: house so? >> guest: well, at least we are giving kids a role model who

not only is attractive, but has accomplished so much professionally. certainly when i grew up with derby dolls, they were all white in their sole career aspiration was to get married. there are a few stewardesses site inc. in the list. i made some progress on the barbie for in. also the basic problem is still the body shape, which is if you train it into what a normal woman sides of the digested number neverland. those proportions are not found in nature and assisted. >> host: the special scrutiny because prominent women. it penalizes them for caring too much or not enough and diverts attention from the qualifications and performance. the media had a field day with

their appearance beehive. the disconnect between her hockey mom rhetoric in the $150,000 wardrobe financed by the rnc. i'm condoleezza rice first day of security advisor, the new your times ran a profile discussing her dress size, taste in shoes and how my preferences, modest or after becoming secretary of state, her appearance and high boots and visiting troops in germany inspired portrayals as a dominatrix and political cartoons and comedy routines. >> host: exactly. women are subject to a double standard here and prominent women are subject to particular scrutiny. hillary clinton faced much the same level of ridicule. she was called on larry king

live bottom heavy. larry king is not exactly a looker himself. when he landed cake and was appointed to the supreme court, people focused on the fact she looked like she belonged in a kosher deli. and again, supreme court justice is not generally i can be, but nobody is talking about during the confirmation process. so what entitles people to say that about prominent women? i was quite stunned after publishing this book by the kinds of e-mails that i receive. many individuals taking time out of their busy day to say things like let's take up a collection for a professor at stanford and buy her a burqa improve the aesthetics on the campus.

it gave me a window into the bias i was writing about. it is a common technique for taking down uppity women and does deflect attention from job performance than all the things we would like to be focused on. >> host: professor rhode, how immune are meant from this? >> guest: because male candidates they want sober -- a once over allegories fashion sense than bill clinton way. then don't get an entirely free pass, but scrutiny of women is so much more in 10 ambitious. >> host: on the cover, one of the blurbs for your book is naomi wolf, a thoughtful explanation of beauty ideals. naomi wolf was the woman who picked up al gore's wardrobe and she got more flak than he did,

didn't she? >> guest: she came under criticism for that, but also wrote one of the pathbreaking accounts of this problem. i was needless to say extremely pleased she found the book a useful way to reignite the debate. >> host: we've been talking with deborah rhode, author of "the beauty bias" published by oxford. booktv is on location at stanford university. >> host: now from columbia we are friends have one over 475 years of recorded history.

>> when i was asked to do this i had done a new history of south carolina from the 1930s. as i worked, a team came out was how you deal with community come either of have been for those left outside of the margin. that is all part of the story. the book starts depending on the archaeological site we go back one in 10,000 years to native americans i hear that some of the controversial were native americans or something else has not yet been decided. to native americans and south carolina were different than if we had some major tribes, the cherokee were the mountains of the catawba's on the border with south carolina. south carolina was mostly 50, 60 people in terms of european settlement intruding in two native american territory made

things different from the confederacy in virginia. king philip's war in massachusetts have a large native american nations or tribes that settlement areas. most of the rivers of people asking the names of the native americans, look at the names of most of our rivers and they are named after native american tribes. the earliest european settlers did not come from europe. they came from the english caribbean islands. anybody who came is considered to be barbie dmm for the first generation of europeans on that, they were the majority of the white population. they can harass capital, slaves, used to running ant colony. they just were not interested in having a resources in their case

who could relate on south carolina, telling him what to do with economic affairs. 1719 had a revolution of teammate team and is the only honest-to-goodness overthrow of government and the american colony of 1776 penne tossed the proprietors that it became a royal colony. secession to read the american revolution and south carolina was involved while before lexington and concorde. the government seized in 1769, 1770 because of an internal dispute. the revolution must take an 1871, 72, 73 of blood was shed in south carolina before the declaration of independence. this is the second state before there was the declaration of independence. of course the session three,

which most people recognize as the civil war had calculated the value, which thought carolinians began to do in the 1820s, but also the question of how you do with the majority of the population who are enslaved. south carolina had the largest in state population in of the nation united states. 1860 or 60% of the population and if slavery were abolished as many of the north are calling for, which he took the population is all of a sudden. so there are a lot of issues involved in south carolina made a decision in 1860 that abraham lincoln on the republican party came to power in november 8260 election fairly at the