utilitarian that is an infiltrating and i think that we were -- communism is the first wave. i think on our ability to confront ideology we have taken ideology about it in fact some the basis of our policies and we are doing it with islam and seen the same pattern over and over again. and your islamophobia if you talk about that. the same story

>>host: "the beauty bias" the injustice of appearance in life and law written by stanford law professor deborah roadie. what sparked this book? >> shoes actually. [laughter] which it is not at the top of the women's rights agenda in a country where 20 million women levin poverty or victims of domestic violence would not say that is the number-one issue of concern but it is what got me thinking about all the ways women are held

back literally and figuratively by their shoes and it was with the group of high-powered women at a meeting of the american bar association commission on women and tried to get between distant meeting points in there was a huge line and a bomb scare in the to ban the queen mother is having her birthday and we needed to walk and i was with three women who were unable to do this given the choices of their fall where. and i was struck by that experience and coming back on the plane from london was reading one of the tabloids this summer issues about shoe's sales to see for inch heels and other choices that you just knew were is an up

or hobbled by appearance but for all the issues the

movement has tackled but appearances one may have made the least progress over the last half a century. more women are dissatisfied with their bodies and also a rise of eating disorders and surgery but the problems are getting worse so why have we made little progress with the individual and social cost with the stigma and discrimination prompted meñó÷] to write the book.÷]÷ó >>host: professor rhode you wrote 96 percent of women but looks at self-image and over half of young women said they would prefer to be hit by a truck and be fat. two-thirds would rather be mean or stupid. more than one-third of obese individuals are willing to risk death just to lose 10 percent of their way and three-quarters will assume

the risk that 20 percent. >>guest: the statistics speak volumes about the extent of which appearance is overvalued in our culture and the narrow definition of attractiveness that we have acquired that we have to conform to. >>host: is a just win in? >> men are penalized to a lesser extent but short man for example,, balding man, are victims of discrimination and many of them are victims of grooming codes that restrict for self expression like a man wearing earrings or have the african-american related hairstyle for example. it is not just a woman's issue but we have been disproportionately the

victim of discrimination and most of the surveys that report it to based on weight

to a greater extent. >>host: what you call that "the beauty bias" is there a greater framework? >>guest: my day job is a law professor at stanford so i was interested in what role the lot to play to combat a discrimination based on appearance. although we prohibit discrimination based on other inherent characteristics except with a few jurisdictions, we don't talk about discrimination based on appearance but i wanted to know what the cost of those provisions are and also the experience the one that

succeeds is where it is egregious but in san francisco there was a case of the aerobics instructor denied a franchise because she did not project the fitness image that the company wanted. she was fit and taught back-to-back aerobics class is and had no trouble attracting students and in

fact, when they denied the franchise and she filed the complaint and got publicity the company was amazed to learn that all sorts of people called in to the talk shows saying they like having the aerobics instructor that looks like them and in a society where fitness that any size ought to be the goal as it is related to health more so than body weight, it is a matter of societal concern to project that i deal to not stigmatize people who are overweight but if it but completely capable to do the job they are applying for. >>host: deborah rhode, what about companies hiring overweight individuals or denying employment? are they thinking health

care costs, productivity? >> sure. but to make that the exclusive basis for the decision not over the weight per se. there was a case in one of these jurisdictions with an ordinance where the fast food chef who was overweight applied for the position and did not get it. the opposition called for no customer contact so then how was it based on how he looks? >> what about discriminating on the basis of health? i know that is a little bit out of what you look at that smokers or overweight individuals.

>>host: besides the fitness company if somebody is heavy, where is there a slippery slope by judging the? >>guest: in many cases it is there only attractive individuals only apply like or bartenders or waitresses and end -- individuals with

excellent customer service service, and good records have attempted to retain those jobs. said you ought to be looking at what the job actually entails. a lot of companies say people would just rather buy from attractive folks. that argument is not totally on mike what white business owners said during the early civil rights era that white customers want to buy from the white salespeople. we rejected customer preference as a defense in those cases and rejected it as a defense when the airlines came in to say we only want to hire young, attractive women and put them in sexy costumes because our mail business customers and the airline said that is not the essence of the job. but we need the same kind of

effort to level the playing field now with respect to other forms related to discrimination. >>host: you also write about the beauty business? what role does that play? >> a huge financial stake in feeding women's and securities to make them think a product will be the answer for them and the results is quite a number of products and oftentimes a ludicrous claim that seaweed would reverse the aging process and various mineral creams but then in the entire fashion and women's magazine focused on promoting the air pressure ideal, attractiveness to be

perfectly well this coke did of what very few bowman can conform. given the pervasiveness of energy in our culture, we're perpetuating unrealistic standards becomes the cost >>host: the significance of the appears early even intense stare long brad attractive faces. love and% of surveyed couples would abort a fetus genetically predisposed to obesity. teachers give less attention to less attractive children and less likely to be viewed as good, smart, a cheerful cheerful, likable and social skills they and the more attractive counterparts. >>guest: is that the society that ray wind?

i raise that as a rhetorical question but i hope the answer is self-evident that beauty pageants are the logical extension of that attitude been reid, the billions of dollars into sexualized images of toddlers with tear as and highly made up faces and painted eyebrows and is that what we really want our quote -- girls to aspire to? so the broader cultural issues need to be addressed. >>host: deborah rhode day you consider yourself a feminist? >> i do. >> page 76 from "the beauty bias" there and a problematic situation those to defy conventional standards are ridiculed as those who comply art and dismissed as hypocrites jane

fonda is decision to have breast implants seemed to contradict everything she advocates concerning health and fitness when confronted by the contradiction she responded i never asked to be a role model i don't pretend to be different from other women. >>guest: i think that is a perfectly legitimate response and we ought to lower our expectations but for a feminist as much as everyone else and i think the issue is less what individual choices and people make up what they can do as individuals to offer a culture that is tolerant of her range of choices to promote a more varied and inclusive by deal of attractiveness. and certainly in much of her life jane fonda has looked at that end and that is where her contribution.

>>host: is it getting better or worse? >>guest: i think we're making no progress and because of the pervasive nests of attractiveness and the role they play in our culture, it is no accident the fastest growing medical specialty is, this medic surgery. but in order to sit well we would say in the killer shoes. so much of that but this suddenly is a growth area

but i had to think twice about preoccupations. >>host: a professor of law at stanford it professor rhode also the director of the program for a larger praetorship and former chair of the american bar association commission on women in the profession and she also clerked for supreme court justice thurgood marshall and has written several books. here is stanford. you talk about your colleague condoleezza rice and "the beauty bias." white you include her? >> now there is one that looks like condoleezza that i think is one of the markers of some progress on this issue. >>host: house so? >>guest: at least the for

someone to have accomplished but they have their sole career aspirations and was to get married. [laughter] maybe if you stewardesses that we have made progress and have paid to say is still the by a shame but chaffing into no movement sounds and you'll center's lunar renner one negative >>host: a special scrutiny in neat -- carney puts women the new win situation and penalizes them for caring too much or not enough to divert attention from the qualifications there was the

disconnect -- disconnect between financed by a there times that with the taste of shoes, comfortable palm stand headline preferences, modest after becoming secretary of state her parents when visiting troops in germany inspire portrayal as a dominatrix with political cartoons -- spec women are really subject to the double standard and prominent women are subject to particular scrutiny. hillary clinton faced much same level of ridiculed and was called on very keen as

the eyes x-ray but then appointed to the supreme court people focused on the fact she looked like she belonged in a kosher deli and again, the supreme court justice is not generally i can be but nobody talks about that through the confirmation process. so what to entitles people to say that about prominent women? i was stuck -- shunned after publishing this book by the kinds of the malice that i received individuals taking time of their busy day to say things like this take up the collection for the professor and by heard that. to prove fate -- improve the aesthetics on campus or you ugly expletive deleted it

gave me a window into what i was writing about. so it is a common technique to take down the upper women and there really does deflect attention from job performance with all the things we would like him to get. >> however if you -- we give them a male candidates though once over and there were comments about how gore so men don't get the entirely free pass but. >> on the cover one of the bush purves but to check about duke one negative speeeight deals with the woman who picked up her wardrobe originally got more flak and he did.

>> 60 months of criticism but she also wrote to the path breaking accounts to deal with the problem so needless to say i was extremely pleased she found the book a useful way. >>host: the author of "the beauty bias" professor rhode published by oxford, booktv is on location and stanford university.

>>host: abraham sofaer "taking on iran" senior fellow at the hoover institution and abraham sofaer is the current strategy of sanctions working against iran? someone i can put pressure on is blown negative revolutionary war and the answer is no. >>host: you talk about the revolutionary guard corps. who are they? >> created under the new constitution in 79 with the assignment of defending the islamic character of the iranian revolution. they have an enormous amount of assets and respond line

negative and with two be the defense industries that have their own army company for -- error force and navy and can control the missile program and under the ayatollah. they also have an item that does assassinations abroad and right now the scorer's out today is the group said is hoping to day. >>host: we will get to the exportation but what about the president of iran? >> and the president has his own area power but the i rgc asks about the ayatollah and he is under the present that

could not order them to do something the ayatollah but in your view with is your policy and what should we be looking for? >> it should not be with what we are considering now the alternative would be what i would advocate we need very much to consider. the two options we consider now are both highly undesirable. one is to attacked iran's nuclear program to prevent iran from having a nuclear bomb. that is what the president has promised he will do. of course, clinton promised he would do that with north korea and he didn't do it and wisely so because it was not sensible to allow

1 million south koreans in exchange for preventing north korea from having a nuclear weapon. the president has promised to prevent it from having a attacked it would be very costly and to put it would be regarded as legitimate to most of the road and it is a failed because iran will leave these and proceed in secret to develop the nuclear weapon. and to control or contain fat he is even worse but

we're in the middle east but it will destabilize the part of the world and iran is a threat to israel and has threatened in fact, that israel should be wiped off the face of the ears. said you could have a major war between two nuclear powers. but those are variable on this as a -- can still consider a third wave that is what my book says vadim. we have a lot to sponsor the killing american soldiers. the marines that are such your with our soldiers in

iraq and missing in afghanistan. but years to work with the added this through if they elect to the inflation that have set -- stood up starting with the reagan administration reid did stand up and made a vague and that to defense. >>host: but what real and what capacity? >>guest: and thete