what people can do and you talk in a book about how voices need to be heard. you mentioned something very important because we only usually hear about this during immigration reform and when the switchboard is shut down. he said each interaction is tracked in every office on a daily if not hourly basis so when you have the new town families, the victims families in town, when you have a photo on something public pressure can be brought to bear on either side and this idea that even though people might not know it, that they are being listened to is important. tell us when you were a senator how that works and why there can be political consequences and people need to get there. >> guest: i've been emphasizing this to my audience and speaking to groups here in

washington. these organizations said will you please tell the membership that it is important to have conversations and to call and travel the country and i emphasize that, don't underestimate your voice. ..

>> how many constituents called on this issue? when i go home i want to know to have that connection it is important to hear from people that is why they should not underestimate those calls. >> thank you. i appreciated.

♪

♪ ♪ nice to see you all. >> i have lived one-third of the history of our country. [applause] which it tells you what a young country is. [laughter] or what a an old man i am. [laughter] i am so pleased to be here and sandy, they do for the moderately good introduction [laughter] george and all the members of the president's council thank you for supporting us and this important institution. we appreciated. i am a supporter myself.

i has been traveling around so i would take a few minutes and i will answer the questions i know the answers to. and i will respond to the others. [laughter] >> i spent four years writing my book "rumsfeld's rules" and i kept thinking about "rumsfeld's rules" and i decided this started because another was a schoolteacher. i would ask her what a word meant in she would tell me to look it up and write it down and i would carry three by five cards like this and i still do to this day. she said by the end of the

week reid them and remind yourself what they mean and i would write down thoughts or ideas are stuff that i thought was important i did that as a young man as a boy scout as a navy pilot when i was in congress and then i resigned from congress in 1969 with my fourth term and went into the nixon cabinet and served in the office of economic opportunity. and i started to make notes about that. and when ford came in he called me back to share his transition then i observed as the chief of staff i mentioned one rule and he said what is that? he was the legislator never serving in the executive position and i said i keeps those little rules and i

don't know what i said this negative did not say the white house is calling. buildings can call. [laughter] he said let me see this i had it typed up and he said e.u. should circulate that to the senior staff and he named it "rumsfeld's rules" it took the life of its own in "the new york times" wrote about in "the wall street journal" and they have been reading it a quarter of the century so i decided to write a book about the rules and that is what that just came out last tuesday. i thought it would be interesting for college graduates starting at the beginning those who had to have meetings and that type of thing and a chapter on

rassling because i wrestled 10 years that is really in the relationship between effort and results and it is terribly important. the other thing to put yourself in the other fellow's shoes to look at from their perspective that is useful with their negotiations as well. i have spent time in business to learn rules like a is -- a's hire a's and b's hire c's. my daughter graduated and said where should i go? i said you're asking all the wrong questions. you said you should ask to

we work around? find someone bright because you will find that people around them will be sparkly and she said what do i do? i said it doesn't matter. be around those people and she said like who? the first name that came to my mind one was a futurist who i happen to know and has long since gone and another was william buckley just because he was so intelligent and interesting as a person and i proceeded to make other chapters and toward the end as it finished the book, i thought about the fact american business does not defend the capitalist system very well and i saw this occupy wall street and people sleeping in the parks and i listened to the national campaign and i heard people talk about government growing jobs.

[laughter] and it reminded reid of my roles that washington d.c. is 60 square miles surrounded by reality. [laughter] [applause] >> i was sorry that people in business because it is hard it is easy for the academic to go into business but it is hard for a business person. in a larger corporation to get knocked off the ladder it is hard to be entered and

i it committed. confession is good for the soul but if you are in government looking at business you don't feel the impact of the regulations. i send my taxes in every year and i always add a letter to whom it may concern coming here are my taxes. i want you to know i don't have the vaguest idea if they are accurate. [laughter] i went to college i have average intelligence my wife

knows that she does not understand and that is the case and i hope they are right to if they have any questions give us a call. can you imagine a lousy tax system like that? it is inexcusable. how many people here understand their taxes? i don't see many hands. but i was in business and a businessman, a large company has shareholders, customers, emp loyees. and it's all across the spectrum for their idea of their views and party so business people are reluctant to challenge the government or criticize them.

they don't want to defy it stockholders over shareholders. they also worry about the irs. [laughter] if you don't understand your taxes, you ought to worry. i worry. if you're in the pharmaceutical business with the securities and exchange commission and the alphabet regulatory it organizations. someone who'd credit -- criticizes the government they worry the government could turn on them and in my view it is so critical because american people don't want to turn on them if you can target one person

he can target someone else. and that is why it is so central what i would like to do is have somebody, i do you have microphones? i thank you do. i would be happy to respond to questions and i will do my best. and what you need to do is raise your hand. i always hate the first question. the first person to jump up scarce me to death. [laughter] the lights are bright. make it a good one or i will embarrass you if you don't.

[laughter] >> here is what we will do. >> you had the floor up here before. who has the first question? >> i have to quit question. >> i am 81 years old in july i do not need multi part questions. [laughter] it is 7:15 p.m. and 10:15 p.m. in washington were i flew in from yesterday. >> okay. [laughter] but feel free to go ahead. [laughter] >> this second question is. >> no. you only get one. cut off his microphone. [laughter] [applause] >> will you write a book for

republicans that says you will not tax without doing a tax decrease. you will not raise taxes without some sort of cut. watching it on the letterman show after $100 billion the world went crazy. >> i was there with the presidency of of lbj and the first federal budget in our history that hit $100 billion. and everyone gasped at the thought. >> it doesn't look like the republicans are hoping will you write a book for them? >> let me say something

about that. there are people all across the spectrum of both parties if, but i was asked for speaking of my other book at fort leavenworth. the military base, not the prison. 1490 majors from mostly our country but from around the world. and someone asked me what i worry about when i go to bet at night and the answer was american weakness. why do i say that? the signal sent out from this country is basically we are modeling american economy on europe and the failed model. it doesn't work. there is no way to have the deficits we have and the

debt we are incurring without sending a signal to the world that this country will not be what it was in the past. there is no way you can do that. people take that message and then you turn around and eisenhower was president then we came at a of the navy serving under kennedy johnson we were spending 10% of gdp on defense today we spend less than 4%. in europe it is less than 2% this signal that goes out to the world with the sequestration is recap $493 billion out of the pentagon budget and we are about to cut another half a trillion now we're close at $950 billion out of the tenure budget.

but they're not in a position to contribute to a more peaceful and stable world in the decade ahead. [laughter] ♪ >> mr. secretary in the back of the room someone with the question. >> we will count him as undecided. [laughter] [cheers and applause] >> mr. secretary, i am in the back. first, i want to thank you for your service and i want

to ask since the start of the iraqi war over gin years i would like to ask you what you think will happen over the next few years. >> with that popular slogan bush lied and people died. bush did not like the intelligence was fashioned by george tenet and the u.s. intelligence community and studied exhaustively by a colin powell and it was supported by the congress of the united states for senator john kerry senator john jay rockefeller and agreed to by the allies that there should be a regime change passed by a democratic house and democratic senate president of the united states and the

idea that it has become a theme against president bush is unfortunate and a result of the fact a narrative has been promoted in much of the media that factually is not the case. with iraq, i don't know. we do know that saddam hussein is gone. the butcher of baghdad to use chemical weapons on kurds come on his own people, his neighbors. we know he killed hundreds of thousands of people, the masquerades in that country were heartbreaking to see. that countries still have ethnic divisions and we know

they have elected a prime minister and that they have a parliament and people were proud and later they jumped in and now participate. is it a tough part of the world? you bet. is it an easy path? no way. eight will be a tough road. but it was a tough road for us. look at our country slaves into the 1800's, a week killed 600,000 americans in the horribly bloody civil war. women didn't vote into the 1900's, it is a bumpy road for almost every country. how it will come out i don't know but they do have a chance and i have a lot of respect for the young men and women who served over there and fought on behalf of our country.

[applause] >> fet for coming all the way to the wild wild west. you said you have seen about one-third of this country's history / like to know. >> i have lived it. >> that's right. can we turn it around? because right now you keep seeing one thing after another after another coming out of the government we think that will do it, that will do it. that will turn them around they will start to pay attention, what can we do to turn it around? [applause] >> the first thing we have to do is recognize the atf

that you can do very much is simply not true. the whole system is rooted in the reality for it to work each of us has to participate to guide and direct the course of the country. some people say maybe i won't vote for somebody will vote the other way, why bother? it doesn't make a difference if you write to the letter to the editor you have state and local officials and people pick gun them unfairly but it does matter and it makes a lot of difference in each individual could do a lot. i have watched it over the years every time things got bad and there are plenty of times, a lot worse than today, the american people

have gotten out of the chair to change their priorities is it possible there is a tipping point* where the pendulum is shoved too far one way? i suppose there is. have we reached it? i doubt it. i have enormous confidence in the american people so think of all the people that rushed into the world trade center in new york when it was attacked, the people who rushed into the pentagon to pull people out who were burned and dying and injured and frightened. the american people will have a lot of fiber. i have a web site

rumsfeld.com that i point* of speech by at applied -- adeline stevens on they're given to my class in 1954 and if you have young people who are wondering about the world read that speech he happened to be a democrat and governor of my home state i don't think he would have been a good president to be honest. he was a cerebral type. one of the campaign slogans was a heads of the world unite we have nothing to lose but our yolks. [laughter] but the speech to my senior class in 1954 was absolutely brilliant and if you read something like that you'll hear about those who do stand up and support people to understand how precious.

i have a couple of titanium headstand a titanium shoulder the wanted all new body parts but they would not give them. [laughter] so it becomes the therapist was time after my hip and he makes you move this way and that way and he did it three days i said i'm a good student i can do it myself. and i sent him on his way and he turned around and said, mr. rums go the would you mind if i said something personal? i said no. he said i came from nigeria and i have been here five or six years and this country is so special and i don't think those of you who were born here really appreciate it. if you went to any embassy all across the globe at

12:00 at night you will see people sleeping out on the lawn trying to be first in line to get a car to come to the united states of america. it is that important. and we have to pause to think how lucky we are and how special this country is. and given that, the answer to that question is and i tried to right that in the last chapter of my book, i think not a good period for our country right now but i think there will be a good period ahead and we have been through tough times before and i personally have a lot of confidence of course, they came from the midwest and we're optimistic. thank keogh.

[applause] >>. >> them occurring u.s. state department employee but want your opinion on the recent ben gauzy situation. >> i think the question was about libya i think first if you put people into a position of danger you ought to provide security for them [applause] if you cannot you take them out. isn't complicated. the brits were in there and pull the people out because it did have the right protection because the threat level was obvious al qaeda related terrorist groups in the neighborhood that were well armed and

they knew that so they pulled their people are people were not they requested additional security because they knew there were a al qaeda related and they did not receive the security assistance that they requested. second, the bush administration had to deal with september 11th and in my view they put in place a set of structures to protect the american people and have done a pretty good job but we did not do a great job was competing in the theological space had against radical islam and the administration they will not do what is necessary to do but they pretend it

almost does not exist as if for hood was workplace violence which of course, is simply not true. it is people who are radical and determined to oppose the concept of a nation state to impose their views on the world. people think when you say it is a war on tear it is of four with bullets. isn't. is more like a the cold war and it will take decades and we are not even competing in the ideological space as we did against communism and it is because people do not want to be seen as against a religion. the people are not if anything is obvious we are tolerant of all religions. but yet there is a reluctance to name the enemy and you cannot win if you're

not willing to do that. [applause] on my website i had a meeting with the combat and to the commander i got back to the office and i was concerned and wrote of them though it is on rumsfeld.com dated to sell some three and basically we need to know the metrics if we are winning or losing. we don't know the number of people who are recruited, we don't know the number of people that are trained in the radical madrasahs in pakistan and people across the part of the world. we dunno those who train

people to strap on a suicide best. the purpose of tear that london said it is not to kill people but to terrorize them and alter behavior and you can defend against terror because it will attach any time or any place every moment against every technique it is impossible. the only thing you can do is to go after them. to make everything they do more difficult how to talk on the phone or to move between countries to find a country that will be hospitable and above all all, for those to recruit and fund the training it is a complicated. it is hard and will take decades. don't get me wrong but it is

doable justice dealing with the communist threat but by competing against the ideas. i will take the next question. i am looking for one that i don't have to answer. [laughter] >> i stand by what i meant to say. [laughter] somebody yell at me. 12:00. you must of been in the navy. the air force? >> i wanted to know what you thought of a democratic president compared to two major republican presidents entering as abraham lincoln. >> speak up a little. >> entering this president.

>> i don't understand. >> i want to under -- the democratic president compared to two major republican presidents. one is entering as abraham lincoln's next successor and the knicks sunday and politicians. >> i cannot follow your question you're using the word entry? >> no, no, no. what i am saying is what you think of a democratic president who has been compared to two major republican presidents? when he entered he was compared to abraham lincoln but now he compares to the knicks sony and politician.

>> i think i get it. [laughter] what do i think? i did not vote for him. [laughter] [cheers and applause] >> mr. secretary what we will do next is we are live streaming this program globally to knight and we have taken questions over the last few days and we will put one up and i will read it to you. what lessons or practices can politicians and government leaders learn from the private sector? this is from toledo ohio. >> the first thing that flashed into my mind is what mrs. thatcher won said the

trouble with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money. [applause] the big difference between government and business is that you're using your money but with government you use other people's money and there is a big difference on how people handle their money and how they handle other people's money. and it is true. anywhere you looked if it is other people's money we behave differently and in the pentagon it broke my heart when i turned my head for a minute to see fancy expensive wood paneling going up in one of the halls. we would not do that if we

were a corporation. the advantage of a corporation or a company or business is they can go broke and that is a good thing if it is badly managed walk down any retail street there are 10%. new leaves grow and in government they don't they go on and on and on. and trying to find some technique to get people in government to manage many like they manage their own instead of how they manage other people's money is a difficult thing. the only way to do it is to be vigilant, to understand

the federal government ought to be the last resort. if they need help look at the charitable and nonprofit organizations the closest to the people those that have strength and can talk to say i need help and if the local cannot do it, then the state only as the last resort you go to the federal government and only if we have people that feel that way and recognize that it is a most generous country it in the earth that voluntary organizations to and the assistance they provide not just as our country but all over the world and let congressman from missouri

used to save public money drives out public money efface the government taking over an area people don't want to help first taxes then separately. so they backed off. and it is true. it is a truth in the book of public money also when you talk about presidents of cursing the came to mind was harry truman after people figured out all he had done but he went out way down and people talk about the fact when he was president think of the things that took place we had the department of defense, cia, national security council usaid and any number of the of things.

but the one of israel was if you want a friend in washington, i get a dog. [laughter] and the rams held corollary was getting very little dog. he could turn on you. [laughter] >> what is the next question? >> since we are in the nixon center and we may be opening to a china what do think the prospects are for continuing a good relationship with china? >> it is possible. is a big country and an important country and it has trouble with its neighbor india and vietnam and mongolia and tibet and it makes a lot of mischief and causing difficult --

difficulties and other countries that have been operating in that part of the world. they are investing in double digits of the defense capabilities and they will have a growing presence. the expert on this is henry kissinger but as i look at it, it seems there is attention between a growing economy which means there will be a lot of people around the country with computers, phones, all of the electronic stuff from the facebook and twitter and all that stuff that you understand so well and that is not highly compatible with the dictatorial communist system. where viacom?

if they try to repress all of the activity that will go on if they allow so phones and computers, if they try to repress it the economy will slow down. i think. if they don't, and the economic side of their economy will do well but i think it will cause pressures on the political system. i don't know what that means but probably there will have to be changes and in the political system and how would operates. but time will tell. one of the chinese proverbs is sometimes you have to kill a chicken to frighten the monkey and they do that.

they do something they invaded part of india not too long ago or they capture fishermen and to fight the monkeys and us. but they are measured with a long view i remember reading about the defense minister who fled the country to go to the soviet union at a certain moment and he must not have been doing well. and his plane was shot down and he was killed and a messenger came in and said

the defense minister was just killed in a plane crash and the comment was the rain will fall and the widows will remarry. do you get a sense that they do not spooked easily but i personally think today well as running the electronics company i had 5,000 employees and tie one and today the interaction between taiwan and china is expensive planes are flying back and forth and people are working and what is happening? i think the chances of anything if there were to be a conflict between taiwan

and the people's republic it would be the most colossal diplomatic failure of modern times. i don't think there will be. what does that mean -- mean? i don't know but india will be bigger in china has problems with a lot of government corporations way over populated having to be privatized which means there will be enormous numbers of people out of work. of with the opposition they will face and i should add the one baby policy is mindless. tens of millions of men

without women and their population the demographics are distorted they don't have a particularly smooth road in my view that if we manage that relationship well it could be possible to navigate through a bumpy times some people say the solution of the south china sea is the law of the sea treaty and of course, they all sign at and china does whatever it wants. and it doesn't do any good at all. i remember when reagan was sent over to world leaders i went to see mrs. thatcher and she explained what president reagan and i thought were key elements and she said that sounds to

me mr. ambassador like the nationalization of two-thirds of the earth surface and you know, what i think of nationalization. [laughter] you can tell president reagan, i am with him and it is not solving the problems. yes, you look. >> i read your last book and i cannot help but wonder to think about all the tough bosses you have had when you set out to do the book tour, what did mrs. rooms filled say? [laughter] her name is joyce and i met when we were 14 in high school. we have then married since 1954.

earlier in the evening i would tell you how many years that has been. [laughter] but i don't want to guests to be wrong. [laughter] the what she says to me is avoid being infatuated with or resentful of the press. they have their job and you have yours and it is pretty good device when you're dealing with the press. i take the advice about half the time. [laughter] >> you have spent so many different levels of the government including secretary of defense when you are there you know, the inner workings and with regards to benghazi, what is the timeline and should the

president have known what is going on? does he know and just saying he does know? [laughter] >> it seems to me a leader, if people are being killed gets people in the office, talks to them and says i want ground troops, what happened, how did it happen, what can we do to save lives and how did we get this system that is broken, a fixed? and instead he went to a campaign event in las vegas. in this thing that political leaders have come in the currency they have come the

they don't lead by command but by consent and we have to be persuasive and people have to trust to the extent it is eroded it is weekend and it seems to me when president obama went to the united nations after everyone knew it was the al qaeda related attack and they were very well armed and organized, and contended it was the youtube video that sparked a spontaneous demonstration, days later he said that, and mrs. clinton went to the families of those that were killed to save we will find the person who did the you to video and it had nothing to do with it. admitted the there is a political campaign can no

question they want to win and when you have a narrative that al qaeda is over we killed osama bin lot and it is uncomfortable for there to be terrorist attacks but you cannot, the truce is the truth you need to get ground troops to the extent even if you are well-intentioned to say things that turned out not to be true. to find out later it was not quite that way but as a navy pilot the handbook says klein, conserve, a confessed. get altitude take a deep breath and say you are lost and get help. and you need to stop and get

people in their to get it fixed and into big problems and three is a perfect storm. let there be no doubt so what they have in the front of their mind is they have got to preserve the trust of the american people feel the way to do that is to figure out the truth to say what ground truth is even if it is unpleasant. >> mr. secretary we will do to more the next one from our live stream youtube audience and what was your favorite part about working in the white house? this comes from charlotte north carolina.

>> my favorite saying it was going home at night. [laughter] [applause] it is a pressure cooker. it is a tough place to work. the days are long and the years are short. >> come on. the next question. >> it is right over there. >> good evening. i applaud your leadership and thank you for your service. i am a recent law school graduate and the forecast is not well enough and i wonder if you think the road for this generation of professionals is harder from the aftermath of the implementation of the lbj

great society. you had experience with that. >> congratulations from graduating law school. i dropped out. [laughter] it is a true story. i went to a year and a half and went back to ohio to manage a campaign than a web back to illinois to run for congress. you know, how many lawyers there are in the department of defense? 10,000. is that a breathtaking fiat? we have such a litigious society everyone has to be lawyers up down the chain of command. but your question is important and i am an

optimist and i think it is tough and it is a wonderful editorial, a book review on a book and bill bennett wrote is college worth it that talks about the cost of going to law school and college and the values that society gives that investment of time it is enormously expensive and but the short answer is for those who want to stick their head down and work hard and contribute to, my guess is you will do just fine. [laughter] [applause]

>> i think i am going to do get the folks and the cut. [laughter] [applause]

for. . . . . >> good even