meetings. as e said in the book, he tried to advance the positions of the executive branch, not his own views. i never saw him favor his own position and never saw him misunderstand an argument. >> you can watch this and other programs online at booktv.org. >> there is no word the processed food industry hates more than the a word, addiction. and i do try to use it sparingly because they can rather convincingly argue that there are some differences between food cravings and narcotic cravings, certain technical thresholds. however, when they talk about the allure of tear foods, again, their language can be so revealing. they use words like craveable, snackable, moreishness. >> our online book club meets tomorrow night, and if you haven't read "salt sugar fat," you can still watch video of

author michael moss at booktv.org. plus, read what others have said on twitter at hash tag btv book club and on our facebook page. join the live, moderated discussion online tomorrow night at 9 p.m. eastern. >> you're watching booktv. next, temple grandin presents recent autism research from the fields of neurology and psychology and shares her own experiences living with autism. this is a little over an hour. [applause] >> it's really great to be here tonight. got a lot of things to talk about tonight, and one of the things i might like to start talking about is exactly what is normal. when does mild autistic traits,

sort of geeks and nerves, become autism? half of silicon valley probably has a little bit of autism. [laughter] it's a very great big spectrum, and at one end of the spectrum you've got maybe steve jobs, silicon valley computer guys, the guy who fixes your copier machine, and at the other end of the spectrum, you've got people much more handicapped; nonverbal, definitely going to have to live in a helping situation. take albert einstein at age 3. what would happen to him in today's school system? that sort of makes me shudder. how many drugs they'd have him on. way too many drugs given out to little kids. research has shown that in the family histories of people that are bipolar, you've got more creative types of people. family histories of autism, you've got more technical kind of careers. you know, a little bit of the trait gives an advantage, too

much of the trait a great biggies advantage. you know, at some point it's normal variation. now, one of the problems in dealing with autism is this word, autism. there's so many different people covered by this world from people who can be very accomplished to people who have have to live in a supervised living situation. diagnosis has changed over the years. autism diagnosis is not precise. it's not like a diagnosis for tuberculosis. you either have tuberculosis or you don't have it. it's very definite. the american psychiatric association has a book called the dsm, and when the first version came out when i was a little kid, they thought autism was caused by psychoanalytic problems. parents got blamed for it. and in the second edition they didn't even mention autism at all. they just left it out. then in the third addition, you had to have speech delay and onset before 3 years of age. then in the early '90s they

added asperger's where you could have a social communication deficits and no speech delay. so now you've broadened the mild end of the spectrum. so now when the dsm fife comes out at the convention in just a few weeks, they're going to take the asperger's out, make it all autism and make a new category and say that's not autism. but that doesn't make very much sense because social communication problems, that is part of the core criteria of autism. you know, it's not precise. it's kind of a moving target here that's just kept on changing and changing and changing. and one of the things i cover in a lot of detail in the autistic brain book is sensory problems. you can have sensory problems with disselects ya, adhd, many, many different labels. and they vary from a nuisance to being so debilitating you can't tolerate a noisy restaurant or a

noisy train station or any kind of place like that. when i was a little kid and a school bell went off, it hurt my ears. one of the ways you can help desensitize that is let the child initiate that sound. then there's other kids that can't stand fluorescent lights. they can see them flicker like a strobe light. sometimes colored glasses help, sometimes using pale, pastel paper will help. and one of my things is i absolutely cannot stand scratchy clothes against my skin. and the thing that i've found is that some cotton issues and others do not. the sensory problems is an area where we need to be doing research, we need to be doing sensory issues. we've done a lot of papers that show, yes, there's defects in the circuits in the brain on, you know, facial recognition and things like that. yeah, we know all about that. but we're not doing enough studies on how to deal with

sensory problems. now, in one of the chapters of the book we've got a -- and richard panic, my co-author, has done a great job of getting a lot of material together. i've got to thank richard for going through all the dsms and getting that done. one of my favorite chapters is where i talk about the brain scans. and, of course, i wanted to go out and try all the latest brain scan technology. what basically showed up in the brain scans also showed up in the classroom, showed up in activities i did. when it came to alt are lettics, i was good and strong, but when it came to skiing, i could never keep them together and do those perfect. then i found out my cerebellum was 20% smaller than normal. i found out that my fear center, the brain's fear center was larger than normal. and that would explain why i had so much anxiety problems. i got into puberty, i had terrible, terrible anxiety

problems. it was horrible. that's now controlled with antidepressant medication. there are a lot of people that are super anxious where a little bit of antidepressant can really help. but one of the scans that really turned me on was a scan done back in 2006, and scientists at the university of pittsburgh in carnegie mellon found that i had a great big, huge, visual track. and that would explain my visual thinking. and then they found out that my math department was trashed because i basically have got cerebral spinal fluid in my cortex, so that trashed out millionty tasking. -- multitasking. [laughter] and one of the things i can't do is remember long sequences of information. when i had a job at a dairy when i was in graduate school, it was about ten steps for setting up the dairy equipment for milking the cows. fortunately, they had it written down on a list. if i hadn't had that list, i would have been in a lot of trouble. i would have had to have made my

own list. so so getting to see all those brain scans was interesting, and in the future we'll be able to do precise diagnosis with brain scans because the greatest imaging now was invented by walter schneider at the university of pittsburgh. we need to thank the defense department for funding, and it maps white matter fibroor tracks. and they -- fiber tracks. they looked at my circuit in my brain for speak what i see, and my circuit has greatly reduced bandwidth. so that explains why i had trouble getting speech out. my speak what i hear circuit was really tiny. now, in the future they'd be able to use this type of scanning to figure out exactly where the problem is. you know, sensory issues are variable, you can get different types of language problems. some kids speak just fine yakking out all these tv commercials, but they have absolutely no idea what the tv

commercials mean. because the meaning circuit is probably not hook hooked up. now, one of my favorite chapters is where i talk about the different kinds of minds. because when i first wrote thinking -- [inaudible] i thought everybody was a photorealistic visual thinker like me. i thought everybody on the autism spectrum thought that way. and then i started reading some reviews on amazon, and they kind of told me that not everybody on the spectrum thinks that way. [laughter] so then i start interviewing people about how they think. see, everything i think about is like a photorealistic picture. okay. if i think about the airport in chicago, i see the crystal structure, then i'm seeing the palace, then i'm seeing the greenhouse at colorado state, i'm kind of in a glass structure category.

but they're all specific glass structures. or i could get in the airport category, and i start seeing scenes of different airports. my one for laguardia, these dingy old hangar offices they have. when i drive by there in a taxi, i think it'd be interesting to explore those old hangars. they probably have all kinds of interesting, weird stuff in there. so that's one of the images i have. now, of course, denver it's the -- [inaudible] that's my image for the denver airport. the more i got to thinking, i realized different kinds of minds need to work together. i'm a visual thinker. everything is in pictures. couldn't do algebra. there's a lot of kids that can't do algebra, but they can do geometry. and we need to let them go on. ten another kind of kid on a high end of the spectrum is little math geniuses. this is the pattern-thinking mind. they don't think in pictures.

they think in patterns. because you've got two kinds of visual circuits. you've got circuits for what is something, and then you've got circuits for where is something. the mathematical mind is the where is something. these kids often have trouble with reading. so you start seeing in third grade that the kid's good in math, well, then let him get a harder math book. don't let him do baby math. and then there's the word thinker. this is the guy who knows all the stats about his famous movie star, baseball players, whatever he really likes. and i always get asked by parents how can i tell what kind of a thinker my child is? well, it often shows up around 7, 8 or 9 years old. visual thinkers like me like to do art. the mathematical mind, they like math mathematics, they like to do legos, also the visual thinkers like to build things. the writers are good at writing. and then you've got some

thinkers that it's all words x they're just so-so kind of in math. and then you've got auditory learners. i had a dyslexic student, she was a total auditory learner. the reason she didn't learn anything through vision is because she had a lot of visual processing problems. and sometimes visual images would get distorted, kind of apix late. we need to have the different kinds of minds working together. as i have found in my own projects, i can visualize things, but then i've got to have, you know, someone who knows engineering stuff to do the engineering stuff. let's look at something like the fukushima nuclear power plant. that's a project that really need a visual thinker like me because the reason why those reactors burned up is because they made a mistake. i can't design an emergency reactor, but i wouldn't have put the equipment for emergency cooling and the generators in a

basement that was not water proof. that's what they did. you know, people don't work underwater very well. [laughter] and all i have to know is about a nuclear reactor is if that pump doesn't work, i'm in so much trouble, it's not funny. and, yes, maybe submarine doors with something i could keep dry. i understand that. that's where we need the different minds. even in working on my mind, "the autistic brain," rich afford was any organization -- richard was my organization. also he did heavy lifting, looking up a lot of stuff. but that's another example. on the movie, you know, emily, the mother of an autistic child who was the producer of the movie, it took a long time to get the right team of people. and then they got mick jackson and christopher munger the writer. you see, the writer gives the structure. and the movie did a great job of showing it. that was another example of

different kinds of lines working together. now, one thing is kind of universal across the spectrum is what's called bottom-up the thinking. everything is learned bespecific example. you want to teach a kid what up means? then you go up the hill. i go up the escalator. i jump up. i walk up a hill. you got to give a bunch of different, specific examples. now, i think maybe here in government since we're inside the beltway here that we need to get a lot more bottom-up thinking. one of the things that really worries me in government is abstractification. you're getting people who get a degree in political science, can then they go work in government, but they don't know anything about the practical world on how those policies are going to affect mr. jones over here, sally over here, and somebody else over here. that's more bottom-up approach, you see? because that's the way i look at things. now, the disadvantage is you've got the get out in the field, and we'll get lots and lots and

lots of different things. one of my very big concerns especially on the higher end of the spectrum, i'm saying too many young people today much milder than i am, they're not getting jobs. .. you don't do that, but remember no surprises.

when i was 15, i was afraid to go to my aunts ranch but my mother gave me a choice. it was two weeks or one week or all summer, but not going wasn't going to be the issue to many individuals now are kind of becoming a video game and playing her clothes and i had a lot of trouble in high school. it was the worst part of my life. i was teased and teased and i got thrown out school for throwing a book at a girl. [applause] i went to a special boarding school. the first two years i was there i didn't do any studying by you know what i learned to do? i learned to work. i cleaned a lot of horse stalls and i was proud of the fact i basically ran the horse barn but it was a lot of hard work but i got satisfaction from that.

the headmaster realized that. when i was 13 my mother had me doing a little sewing job and then i shingled a barn roof. i learned how to work. the discipline of work. then i had a bunch of internships. one of my internship i worked at a research lab and i had to rent a house with another lady so i had a ton of work skills. then when i got to arizona i was written on my master's. someone in the arizona state fair i found this sign painter and i painted signs for the carnival. well, that kind of gave me -- i learned how to do free-lance and then i worked up to the editor of the magazine and i got his card just like in the movie and i started writing for the magazine. one little article at the time, then i painted some signs and then that grew into designing things. it was one little project at the time. that's how wide belt of my business.

people thought i was really weird but when i showed them my portfolio, when you've got to learn is how to sell your work rather than yourself. so i would show people my drawings and my work. the of the thing to figure out is how to get in the back door. one thing i learned is you never know where you're going to meet the person that you could show your portfolio to. welcome get your kids artwork on your phone, get computer phone programming, only put your good stuff. people tend to put a lot of rubbish in their portfolio. [laughter] then you have to learn things like sex religion and politics. we don't need the subject staff work. park it at home, stream views on those topics or not, welcome. the other thing is we need to find an employer willing to work. he makes a mistake and says something inappropriate and he pulls him aside. there is a scene where my boss slams down the of around and

says you stink, where it. and that happened. i was so embarrassed but i thanked him now for that. it really bothers me to see smart kids just kind of going nowhere because they haven't learned the discipline of work. there is a discipline to doing work and i think we need to start teaching work skills. 12-years-old, 13-years-old. it used to be paper routes. we don't have paper routes anymore. how about walking dogs for people. doing something they've got to do everyday. you know, there's a discipline to that. how about working at the farmers' market? mabey shopping for groceries for old folks making powerpoint presentations, fixing computers. the other thing is we've got to get kids involved with shared interests. we get these special interests, get them into the robotics club, get them into a sketching club where they deutsch reidy drawings or into the school play

or the ban or music. the only places it is sent to each is the special-interest bank the students that rode horses and that did a bottle rockets, they were not doing the teasing. then i had my great science teacher. he got me motivated to study. so it's another important thing. and i finished off the formal part of my talk before we get into questions. we have two microphones down here with questions. if autism is such a big spectrum and it's difficult for teachers to shift gears working with someone that is nonverbal and may be working in silicon valley it's all called autism and that is a difficult thing. of course i relate to kids like me and i want to see them go out there and succeed. i talked to a pennant last night and their son is really happy now running of electronic

equipment in the movie theater in new york. they got him out of the house. he was kind of turning into a recluse and he didn't like that said he migrated to the attic where the level of the electronic things and now he is running that. then you have to get a boss but is willing to coach them. another great job as a museum tour guide. a lot of them will take 12 for 13-years-old and then they have to learn how to greet people. don't stop them around the museum or stand to close. they've got to learn all that. i think what i want to do right now line at the microphones and switch back and forth and we have to get really good discussions going because that is the parts that i really like. so get up there to the microphones. [applause]

if nobody gets up i'm going to pick somebody and get the question off the floor and reheat. we had an icebreaker here. is this on? okay i am here to break the ice. i don't have words for my admiration. you talked about the limited ability. my husband is a spanish speaker but you speak very fast. i wouldn't diagnosing with anything petraeus to make a person with autism keeps improving. that's why you have to expose them to interesting things. i got off to delete to fixate on the optical illusion. when i was in high school kids called me to keep bookworm and i couldn't figure out why they called me that but as you get out and you use more and more

information like the database imagine you have to fill up full of stuffed because to understand something in the future i have to relate it back to something in the database. >> i have fielded of that. hearing you read the first chapter while i was waiting. these things are a continuum. >> my daughter can't understand this feeling and i can't understand being crowded in the back of an elevator. do we really need labels or are we just on the spectrum that goes in different directions like this one. >> i think the point is that genetics is incredibly complicated. we talk about the variations in brain development and tons of

them and a lot of these traits are part of the normal but they aren't print be doing high-level jobs. they are nonverbal and difficulty doing daily living skills. you have severe autism and they have a child that is so severe they can't do normally activities. by the time i was five for 6-years-old we could do normally activities like have sunday dinner. we can do to a museum and go through shopping in the supermarket. but now you can't do that and you get off to some of the others connected with that so that is a very big spectrum. there is a point where when does moodie become bipolar and the

old term manic depression. one is feeling blue becomes a depression. >> thank you for everything you for animals as well. >> it's a lot of work and things for annals have gotten better but they need to keep improving. in the 80's and 90's they were the bad days >> i've read a lot about you and became an that my error. can you make a few comments before the animals were slaughtered and then the second question i have is the you still do the squeezebox. >> one of the things that helped me as being a visual thinker and i talked a lot about the animals living in a sensory base. the very first word i did they

would be afraid of the reflection chain hanging down and the hose on the ground and if you've gotten rid of these distractions than they would block up the shoes and the behavior was the same as the behavior. they are not stress free but it's about the same as in both places and being a visual thinker helped me to imagine and of course people think they have to know they are getting slaughtered and that is something i had to answer when i first started and the plant this was back in the 70's and was fairly decent. and they be given the same way their. they knew they weren't going to get slaughtered. they had a 5-foot 6-inch fence. they were very capable of jumping it, but the event.

to care about animals and be involved in swa during the first of all it's never existing if we -- we have to give animals a life that is worth living. we feel very strongly about that and there are problems pushing animals by all the key to our degette problems with things like that and i am very concerned about that. i don't use it anymore. for some individuals, deep pressure is very calming. but again that doesn't work, everybody to be the problem that we have with autism is that it is so -- >> thank you so much. it's an honor to be here. my daughter was recently of diagnosed with autism and she had a lot of medical issues with food she had never eaten.

however we have been told that autism is also related and i've seen that in your movie. >> the reason i was in yogurt and jell-o is i had colitis and and i went on antidepression and it stopped the constant anxiety and stress and went away and i saw a room full of green jell-o but the reason why i was eating that is because i had horrendous colitis. it stopped my nervous system and toured the colitis so i don't have to do that anymore. >> thank you. >> i'm curious of your thoughts looking at animals when i read your books and articles and i have seen you online the

applicability of what you have written and described seems significant on the terms of guidance that haven't been diagnosed and i'm curious on that. >> one of the things we've gotten today's kids are not learning were the skills. in the 50's they taught social skills and a much more systematic way and i think today it hurts the people with autistic tendencies more than the normal kids. the kind of model through it. but the vision of them exactly how much pressure and how many shapes you do. that was taught back in the 50's to kids. you've got to teach them. the other thing is you have to learn that even in a job that you love, there is going to be some grunt work. i was very proud of the fact i took care of the whole horse farm the there was one part of my job that i hated i had to carry the sawdust up the stairs

and i finally got the system worked out so why didn't have to do that and that isn't fun tall that any job no matter how much you like it it has grunt work and i am finding that some of these young people today that are mild on the spectrum they don't want to do that work. >> i remember you talked about how there was a so-called cure for all to some -- autism because it made things impossible in your life and i always found that interesting because when i was diagnosed about eight years ago, i was ashamed and i wish i could be cured and now i'm with a group that teaches autism acceptance so would you care to elaborate? >> i wouldn't want to be cured because i like the logical way the i think. but on the other hand, i put

being a college professor first and when they set this up, they wanted to cancel on my animal training and i said absolutely not. we have to arrange the book tour around the training because that is my real job and i think it is agreed to accept having as workers put on the other hand i have seen kids get so hung up on autism that they aren't doing other things. autism is an important part of iowa who i am but it's important to my work and i'm not going to give up the livestock work. i like doing the work that the other reason is i am a better role model and still have a real job like teaching my class. i've had situations where the turnaround, and do my class and

turnaround back to new york again. that isn't on the fun side of things but i think that is important and the other thing is what's sure that we are in autism and we are contributing members to society. that is another thing that i think is important. what do you do for a job? >> i work at the capital management. >> okay, good. that is really good at. what i am saying -- congratulations. i am seeing the diagnosis being helpful is on relationships. it's different, not less. 14 people on the spectrum diagnosed in the 40's, 50's or 60's because the relationships or mess that and the diagnosis helped them that they had a job and they supported themselves.

they deliberately picked people to a computer person they all have paper routes when they were young and they learned how to work. they have to show the people on the spectrum can really do. that's one of the things i learned because i was a weird geek showing my drawings of to be that's what i did. be proud of the fact you have a job and you are keeping at. [applause] i read your book tonight. thank you for coming when the first of my grandchildren was diagnosed with autism i have two grandchildren that had been severely damaged, and it was helpful for me having folks in

the future but sometimes i feel that we are talking about two different -- >> this is the problem, there are two groups. when i was a little kid i was severely autistic. no language until age four. we had to do in early intervention. you can't let a three-year-old said in a corner but once you do the intervention the divide into groups. you have the ones like me and some that are very severe and then you have a few the have a lock in some drum typing independently and they describe a sensory jumble world they cannot control their movements and there is a good brain hidden inside a person that is doing all of this kind of stuff. >> i feel that there is more to that because my grandchildren were born a normal and succeeded

on the developmental scale. they got skills and the youngest one lost everything. at a point in time what he did was bang his head, paul his hair out and he had permanent bruising. then the doctor suggested that we intervene because they felt he had pediatric disease and from the first treatment you can tell we are doing everything we can. he had one treatment every month for six months.

>> i'm going to have to go off to somebody else but that is really good. one of the problems that we have in autism is that it's a behavioral profile. it isn't a precise diagnosis. we will find on some of these cases that there are other things. >> when you mentioned colitis, after we did that we took them to a specialist. >> the problems go with autism. another thing that happens is they have all these gastrointestinal problems but in this level of autism he isn't getting treated for the gastrointestinal problems. when you have a beaver dhaka, especially nonverbal you have to worry about medical problems and gastrointestinal is number one after esen reflux and then you went to the that urinary tract infections, yeast infections. >> now that they are comfortable in their own body of the

interact with people. >> that's because they aren't in pain all the time and bad things where the kid gets a autism label and they say he has autism. how can he possibly have gastrointestinal issues and that is just wrong. >> as you may an eco they have grown tremendously in this country. there is very little awareness. are there any intentions of translating the books? stomachs of my books have been translated into spanish. the first chapter of thinking impacters is on my livestock website in spanish to get translated into spanish. i can't remember the title to my

book so we would have to go on spanish-language websites and put my name in. my first book is in spanish and that is still in print. >> my friend is autistic and he likes the drawings. when he's done drawing his pictures it seems he looks at the pictures and i don't now what he sees but when he does that -- >> there are different ways of doing that. i can a member an hour after lunch break 12 little things to calmed down but in some kids when they get excited they go like this and they can't control

that. >> but what do you see? >> there are different ways. you can do competitive -- repetitive behavior and the other thing is sometimes it is like to read some from a disorder you might make like every 30 seconds and that is a different type of disorder and movement disorder. i think in the future they are granted to get down and the social communications aspect that is the true criteria set to put that off as a separate thing to be autistic you have to have the communication problem along with fixated behavior but i think to start looking at these like for example it was enlarged

but that isn't true with everybody with autism or that everybody with autism. they probably don't have water. this is where there is a variation. the one thing that is the most common is with face range. you take a bunch of people and put them in the scanner and the thing that is about that is the technology for looking at the face recognition and recognizing the faces it is over 10-years-old but it isn't being used. >> thank you. you are inspiring. i have a 4-year-old son on the sector he spent his life and engagement -- >> now she's 4-years-old. what are you doing for therapy?

>> we do two hours of ot -- >> welcome a you see little kids need like 20 hours a week of one on one. people are going out and going bankrupt and mortgaging their house. don't do that. if you try to do it all yourself you are going to go crazy but get some students and volunteers and watch what you speak to the chris -- speech therapist does and ot and foretime person does and then you need to do a whole lot more of that. people fight over which method we are going to use. there is a method that is a little bit different but the thing that is important is getting enough hours with an effective teacher who's kind of gently persuasive to pull it out of the kid because one hour of speech a week is not enough now is the time you have to act. don't wait. >> would you be more opposed to therapy or things like that? >> the listening program might

help, that they get the most evidence base is doing just the one on one therapies. what my speech teacher did and this is similar to a listening program she would sake cup and she would say the regular way fast or if we would look at the soon issued a spoon and then go spoo-na peaden i have some of the tory processing problems and when they talked fast i thought they had their own special language. so slow down. these little kids need a lot of interaction play games, board games are great. they teach taking turns and having to wait your turn. but those are things that, the most important thing to do right now is getting lots of hours of therapy. does she have any speech? is the speech coming? >> it is. get more hours in a.

it is is the time to put in those hours and the thing is some teachers have a knack and others don't you can get people to start working with them. >> thank you for speaking tonight. my mom read your book in the early 90's. 23 right now and he's pretty much nonverbal. nothing is kids like that know the difference between real and fake work so he is going to want to try to do something he can feel like he can contribute. >> that is what we are struggling with right now. we're struggling with of the things you talked about they come up with ferias and programs to take advantage of.

>> let's look at the simple things. pretty much nonverbal. how about shall wering in addressing. >> he needs constant help. >> you will want to read how can i talk of my lips don't move. he is nonverbal and describes the sensory and jungle world. when he describes a t-shirt if this lippitt on relief last he doesn't understand how it goes on. you have to take it really slow like five mets pulling it down over the head, and then slowly taking us through the armhole because if you do it too fast, he doesn't register it. things like that might help on dressing. the other thing that might help is attached schedule.

i remember the group, this worked really well they had a touch schedule five minutes before breakfast they gave the spoon a hold and before shom were told and five minutes before the bus so they have a touch schedule and then is their anything that he likes to do? what does he like to do? >> he knows how to work the vcr and the television. >> he knows how to work those things. but i think the struggle that we are having right now is constant care and we are trying to figure out how he can have any kind of light. >> there are so many individuals that will need constant care. this is the problem of the spectrum and hopefully you are getting some plans in place for that. this is the problem on the autism spectrum it is such a big spectrum and i am not going to

say that he ought to get a job at microsoft, that is not realistic. >> anything that you can provide inside. >> well i think that the sensory chapter is going to get the inside and also how can i talk of my lips don't move. >> [inaudible] i didn't find out until i was in eighth grade and after i graduated from college and i had been holding down to part-time jobs but it's just a matter of

pressing to the next level. >> what did you study in college? >> parks and recreation and i worked to part-time jobs at a playground for individuals with disabilities and the other job is that the historical house and i held velte with key programs i'm kind of the butler. >> did you like the jobs of the park's? [inaudible] i live with my parents right now. before i graduated from college and i do pay them rent each month, a relatively low amount. >> maybe you should have your own apartment. when i was in graduate school i

realized i had to make a slow transition from the world of school to work. when i was getting my master's i was painting sides of the carnival and realized when i was doing that obviously i wanted to make it out painting things like signs for the himalayan heights monster. [laughter] >> the problem is the rent is high elsewhere. >> to work in one of the highest districts in the world right here that is one of the things that is a problem. >> my parents suggested i ask you for a job. [laughter] [applause] >> one of the problems is rent is so high. i had a student at had a good job she got a good salary but the rent was so high she lived in her sister's house. it's a real problem. one thing you might have to

relocate. i ended up relocating from the east to arizona because i went to the ranch i found out i loved arizona. >> the problem is i feel fairly comfortable with where volume overall. >> one of the problems is if you want to grow you have to push outside of your comfort zone and stretched. when i was 15-years-old and afraid to go to the ranch my mother said you can go for a week or for the whole summer. then in college she set up the internships for me like my own house for somebody, that was kind of set up but that was another example of stretching. going to have to stretch if you want to grow. it may be too expensive to live here. >> [inaudible]

>> my career goals are recreation and something to do if animals because the job i had before i had to part-time jobs i was was an animal resources. >> you have to find something that you'd like. >> my folks were cooking 18 bohm stake last night and my dog got into one of them that fell on the floor and i was able to retrieve that t. bone itself. >> of the dog let you get it back. >> you have to find something you like to do. i think we have to go on to the next question. [applause] i work at a school with a lot of

autistic children and the kids seem to pick at their skin and to let leaves and it gets to be a big problem to coverage with a band-aid their fearful of band-aids and they also bite themselves a lot. i don't know if it is frustration. >> some kids get better if they do some of these sensory things. how much exercise are they getting? another thing is showing up in the literature the - three supplements are good for the brain. i find i get a lot of aging oliver at night and i have been taking some be 100 magnesium at night and that stops some of that itching at night. that might work and working with sensory activities helps some of this. >> thank you.

>> i know we are here talking about autistic people but i hope he wouldn't mind if i ask a question about an animal. >> okay, fine. >> my doll the probably wasn't socialized. we don't know. he was rescued. we got him at five months. a very fearful logged. -- dog. it's difficult for him to walk out of the house with one person. he's okay walking out to people but he doesn't like to leave the house. >> doesn't like to leave the house -- >> i.e. to drive him. we can go in the car and if i park the car he will get out and what but he doesn't like to leave the house. >> the animal memory tends to be specific and its possible whoever had him before did something really abusive getting them out of the house. now if you take him somewhere in the car that's letting him out

of the car and that's not associated with the abuse. animal thinking as much more specific. i was just talking to my agent last night and she has a little dog that is terrified of baseball hats. if agassi is wearing a baseball hat, that dog won't have anything to do him. you take the hat off and then he's fine. uzi that is associated with some of use. >> we just don't know what ever happened to him. >> if something bad happens going out of the house, is it a big dog -- >> he's a medium-sized dog. >> too heavy to pick up. >> i guess my real question is how can i best appreciate what he is experiencing? >> he has a memory of going through the door. did you try the back door? >> yes putative he has a way of knowing that just not knowing. >> i think it makes it worse.

it is pretty much afraid of everything. he doesn't like -- >> says he's afraid of other dogs, too. >> know he's not afraid of other dogs. he doesn't let people how checks that his owner. >> he could have been abused before you got him and he could have just been kept isolated. so there was absolutely no socialization with other people and other dogs. you can do things to make him better but it's going to be difficult. >> we don't expect to completely fix it. it's been a visit to gradually getting better. >> it helps a little. ischemic let's go on to the next question. >> i'm glad you're talking about animals because i wanted to know what you thought the most valuable aspect of a pet therapy. ischemic pet therapy with people with autism? it works great for some individuals. the way kids will react using

animals, well the first time loves them. at the next time, kind of get scared of them but then he was a warm-up to them. then the third time they absolutely hate dogs because they never know when they are going to bark and it's a scary thing that is going to bark and hurt their years. in that situation using animals isn't appropriate to get i have had five or six parents tell me they are doing balancing and activities involving of rhythm and balance are often helpful. you can also do that with swinging and sitting on balls, too. for some, therapy is a resolutely great. >> we have time for four more questions. >> ibm at huge fan. >> you have a western shirt on. i am currently a wildlife major

at the university of maryland right down the street, so i appreciate the work you do for animal welfare. i personally really connect with dogs, and i feel they helped me concentrate and come down sometimes. i've never been diagnosed on the autism spectrum but after hearing your talk i feel like we all connect in some way. so i just wanted to know more about your connection with animals and how you best connect with animals and especially -- from my educational background. >> the thing that helps me with animals is to think more like an animal. animals don't think any verbal language. they think and pictures and smells and touch sensations. it's a much more specific kind of thinking. it's not abstract, you see coming and i think that helped me with my work with animals. also i got a lot of insight when i realized my thinking was different because when i was a

teenager i thought everybody thought with pictures. i find people are sensitive fingers and they have a hard time understanding. this is where there are different kinds of - and being a visual thinker has helped me with animals. >> do you have a favorite animal? >> i really like cattle. >> yes, dr. grandin i became aware of your book animal translation to cause of my interest in animal behavior. but reading your book opened my world to realize i was probably on the spectrum and i just got diagnosed at the low end at age 30. >> what are you doing now? >> i'm a technical analyst for the department of energy. >> and you better keep that job. you better keep it. because you have got super

benefits you won't get with another job. >> i'm a contractor. but basically what i do is take care of the nuclear weapons program. >> you have a good job and you need to keep it. >> my question is coming back to your book on social relationships. of the world's coming in the social and indications, which one would you consider the most pivotal in trying to socially connect with people on a more intimate level? >> i found i connect with people that have shared interests. it might be animal behavior, horses, talking about engineering stuff. i find most people on the spectrum have a good relationship and you might want to read the next book, too because people get diagnosed

because of their relationships, not their unemployment but because of their relationships. and, you know, the one spouse has to realize maybe they won't be as a monstrous. and there is also and ebook out on a asburgers. >> what i'm trying to get into -- >> some of those things might help you but we're all i have seen successful relationships is in a shared interest. i have a friend named jennifer myers she's a computer person. they met at a science fiction meeting and they have a wonderful romantic dating session. a nice restaurant with wine and candles and all that kind of stuff because you have to set the stage for the discussion on the computer data. [applause] the most interesting thing in the world is computer data

storage. you can't find a soul mate in the work that you do is it mathematical, statistical, what do you do or is it classified? [laughter] >> it's a wide variety of things a combination of by of diversity, mathematics engineering to the stacks are a lot of technical stuff. you are a techie. get involved with other techie. [applause] you have a wide range of fields you need to be proud of the fact you have a super good job and you need to keep it. you need to get a soul mate that is interested in those kind of things. >> so another big bang theory. >> that's right. [applause] okay >> how did you get over being so

anxious when you were little? >> how did i get over being anxious? why did the first talk i panicked and i walked out. one of the things that helped me in my early thirties i went on anti-depressant medication. there are some people that a super anxious the need help in biochemistry and the best thing is a little bit of prozac or something like that. i have a chapter thinking on the pictures i wrote about the lever on biochemistry and i find us to be visual thinkers. i know a lot of designers that take a fumble that of prozac because you don't want to be messing around with alcohol or street drugs. you probably get exercise if that's a good. [inaudible] >> sorry. [laughter]

>> i take prozac too. >> , another thing i found that helped me is the 100 set up that i do every night on the bed. [applause] benet i will think about trying that. thank you. >> you are very welcome. [applause] one more question. >> what do you think has been your experience men and women on the spectra have different experiences and i guess that is related to buy was wondering about your series. >> when i took the test of the

systematizing and the thing that doesn't hold up is to allow the spectrum are not masculine and muscular. it might be something in the fetus getting exposed to more testosterone. as a young child wasn't interested in playing house. >> there is a theory that autistic women don't get diagnosed because they have social skills on them. >> they have usually better social skills, usually that tends to be the pattern. and the reason for that is the women in general. [applause] one thing i found dealing with men and was heartbreaking in the industry when i first started in the cattle industry but the thing is you are getting in a los batt with them and they get over it.

i had a little yelling match and then it is over with. that is one thing but i found. what do you do? >> i'm going to law school this year. >> get lots of good job experience. i hate to keep harping on this stuff but i am seeing too many smart people not getting good jobs and losing their jobs because they don't show up to work on time or they don't like it. even in a good job there is going to be grunt work. thank you for coming. [applause]

>> for more information visit the authors web site, templegrandin.com. i want to move to the role of publishers. used to be that publishers would take care of all distributions, production and they would provide the advanced and that series of services led them to take a very hefty cut in manufacturing cut. now you don't need protection because you can put it out on the web. you don't need to advance because it doesn't cost that much or you can do something like kickstart because you can put it on the web. what is the role of the publishers of this new world where the production and distribution and financing are starting to be taken by

different technologies? there is a lot in there. first i disagree fundamentally with a couple of things. there is production distribution costs and tasks involved whether it is digital or physical. i think it is a very common misunderstanding. it's very easy to think that digital is free and it's not. there is a lot of backlash if you will over some of the early books and we have an extensive back west. there is a conversion process that takes place and there is a lot of care that most going to that because in the early days when you are scanning the books to get them into the format they just were not replicating the book properly. so first of all there is a

production largest in the cost but in the competency of around production of a digital book and presenting that properly. i'm actually looking at the head of children's publishing smiling because she and i have had these conversations all the time when you talk a lot of children's books and how to produce something that conveys the gorgeous illustrations that the artists intended. >> if that is true surely it is only for the first copy because everyone thereafter is free because there is no marginal cost to make 10 million copies. >> you newspaper printing binding. it is the marginal cost of the paper printing and binding. the other thing i would say -- and shipping and warehouse. not necessarily.

there is a deep infrastructure that is needed to support the digital operations. the other thing i would mention about the state of the publishing today is if you talk about the future of reading in the publishing and where the books are going to go that is the big question will it be completely swapping out of the physical for the digital media kind of happen for example and film photography. in the books i believe there isn't going to be that swapping out 100%. the children's books are a great example where there is a strong desire to have the physical books. that's today. fifer ten years from now we might be seeking something different but today publishers are in a world where they can't be jumping tracks from the physical to the digital where they are supporting the two businesses so you are continuing

to support the print business while continuing to support the digital business. underlining that is a third business you are cultivating which is getting to a place we are not talking about the conversion of e-book essay taking what used to be in the physical form and now putting it over into the digital form, the creation from really creating a digital product from concession come something that was initially conceived with the author and developed to be a completely new digital product so the role of the publisher is in that scenario because it's one thing that you forgot on your list of what publishers do it's the heart of what we do it's the editorial. it's really bringing that story to shaping that story with the author bringing into the marketing in the best possible way that still exists in an even more exciting way when you talk

about the creation of the products. >> shaping the story may be the only role because there is almost nothing left. but seriously, you are wrong. >> we are partners here. i'm happy. we had a very exclusive arrangements about who is doing what and again because i came from the digital foundation i was skeptical of everything that i could do that and that. all i can spell check. what do you got. it turns out i was wrong about a few things and i have learned a lot in the process. in terms of the editorial of course i could have gone and hired a great writer in that

process. i was happy to have this person. the distribution of the physical to still support the digital, that i ignored completely. i basically got free advertising across the nation on one bookshelf. i can't buy that. ten, 15, 20,000 books into the hundreds of bookstores and libraries of around the world and digital only doesn't do that. you cut off the physical market and in that sense. so that helps support the digital. when they ran out of the books, the spiked so there was a level of demand regardless of the format and you could see the choice they switched over but they probably would have gotten a physical one of. and then the actual marketing of the things, me and my campaign manager for the book, who i met three of the onion rebuilt this rounded internet army digital plan, and harper did the more

traditional big media planning and got me on msnbc and all these things very hard. that is a network game, that is a rolodex game and they can talk to the people to make that sort of thing happen and the flood of authors can't pull that off on their own. so i found that i was wrong that publishers use this and i was glad for it because i wanted to make sure we were both doing something. [laughter] and then i learned a lot about, you know, the excitement, the upside and the limits of what the individual authors or the authors that create their own kind of digital presence. but there is a flood of leaders and writing in the words and tweets and blogs and more books than ever. how do you convince somebody that you are worth their time. attention is the currency.

whether you spend it watching a cat play a fiddle on youtube or reading about the future of blackness. and the equal choice to some people. [laughter] just competing for mental real-estate. and so many extra riders competing for attention that a publisher who knows what they are doing can add a little extra weight on the kick starter moving artist like i have a blog platform i'm going to turn up the blog and call it a book. >> i think that is true. but you are an exception because you wrote a best seller. the shelf life of a book, i am sure that they would confirm this is a matter of weeks or days and most books don't make it into bookstores. we are living in a different world. on the artery in this world publishers are crucial and i'm really worried about booksellers, however, because that middle person is beginning

to disappear. and outfits like amazon are transforming the way the books reach the readers and then there is a movement in the other direction that i think very few people have noticed. there were about 350,000 new titles published in the u.s. last year. that is a 6% increase over the previous year in paper. the book industry is actually doing very well although the publishers are always raising their hands and saying it is the end of the world. compare with about 350,000, 700,000 books or self published. twice as many books are produced by the independent authors that put them on line and have something to say. now you might claim there is a lot of garbage among the 700,000 books, but i think there is a lot of good stuff as well. so i feel if you look at the publishing industry -- i don't

know if he would agree -- we are witnessing a transformation in the structure, so some of the metal intermediaries are moving out. and somehow the public is moving in in strange ways to the it used to be said that books were written for the general reader and now they are written by the general reader. .. booktv.org. well, now joining us on our booktv set is radio talk show host, columnist and lawyer larry elder. his most recent book,