think it's a macmillan trait particularly. >> thank you. thank you for everything you've done, macmillan. [applause] >> a great conversation. thank you very much. >> thank you. >> [inaudible conversations]

>> [inaudible conversations] >> [inaudible conversations]

>> a watching live coverage here on c-span2. tweeting about this event, james says, for those who don't know, hashtag is book expo america an annual event where the entire industry gathers to show off their upcoming books. author says wonder what book expo america is? probably. the most anticipated event >> c-span2 will continue to cover various discussions throughout the week from book expo america. our live coverage from new york

city continues tomorrow with a panel of authors discussing their upcoming books. among them -- live coverage of that discussion gets underway tomorrow morning at 8 a.m. eastern here on c-span2. >> with congress off for their memorial day recess, we are featuring booktv in prime time each night this week.

>> that's all tonight beginning at eight eastern here on c-span2. >> now some live coverage this afternoon to tell you about over on c-span, the brookings institution will take a look at a new pew study showing marijuana legalization now has the support of about half the country. last year, colorado and washington became the first two states to legalize recreational marijuana use. watch live coverage of the discussion today at two eastern and again that's on c-span. >> the public's fascination with frances cleveland will extend to her clothes, and she was a real fashion icon. women in military hairstyle, her clothing. she popular everything she had and did. this as a dress from the second administration, and in a way this is the most prized piece of all. this is her inaugural gown in 93

and a state and her family and became the family wedding dress. this was used by her granddaughters. even france's clearance every day closer very stylish. a lot of them look like something you could wear now. this is a jacket, black with this beautiful purple blue velvet. this is a more evening appropriate peace. would've had a matching skirt. you see the beautiful lace, slightly more ornate daytime test. this would have a matching collar. again you can wear this with a shirt waist and skirt. >> our conversation on frances cleveland is now available on our website, c-span.org seized --/first lady's.

>> some news this morning. minnesota congresswoman michele bachman announced that she will not run for reelection in 2014 in a video on our website, congresswoman bachmann said quote this decision was not impacted anyway by the recent inquiries into the activities of my former presidential campaign, and quote. earlier this year a former campaign aide filed a complaint with the federal elections commission claiming the lawmaker made in improper payments to an iowa state senator who was the state chairman for 2012 presidential run.

>> earlier this year, the commonwealth club of california hosted a discussion on ways consumers and companies can share products and information while also spending less money. we heard from the cofounders of to internet publishing companies during this 65 minute discussion. >> it's hard to imagine any other way of satisfying our needs and desires. when consumers buy less stuff, the economy suffers. now entrepreneurs in silicon valley and around the country are greeting new technologies and companies enabling people to share or rent, not by.

the sharing economy is hot and hundreds of startups are sprouting up for items that are expensive to own and used infrequently your cars, designer gowns, power tools, you name it. these internet-enabled services or even aimed at changing the way people invest at how companies pool capital. over the next hour we'll discuss the creativity and destruction of the sharing economy with our live audience here at the commonwealth club in san francisco. we're pleased up with is three people deeply involved in this new form of capitalism. lisa gansky is author of "the mesh: why the future of business is sharing." andy ruben is cofounder of yerdle and former vp at wal-mart. and bill parrish is founder and president of solar mosaic, the crowds on the company here in this a. please welcome them to climate one. [applause] >> thank you all for coming. lisa gansky, you've recently

tweeted that ownership is all, so last century. what does that mean? >> well, my feeling and the work that we've been i guess all working on is that last century we spent a lot of especially the second half of last century, buying a lot of stuff. and i think that the more people i speak you around the world really especially in the developed world in the occidental world, we are suffering from some form of a self i know. we're far more things than we actually use as a global community. and so the tweet was really, last century did have the technology here, for example, track things that we can right now track. so that you would rent a building or you would rent a floor of a building, things were sort of bigger chunks on a bigger chunks of time and bigger things themselves. third floor of the building as opposed to the ability to tap

into i want that conference room for an hour because i'm flying through madrid. and because of the mobile phones that probably many of you have come i have at least one, it's kind of our remote control for moving around the world so we can find each other and things much easier. and in many ways the technology sensor allows to find things and mobile devices allowing us to find each other have really taken the friction out of sharing. so last century those things were not in place and it was quite difficult to share. i have friends of mine that are, for example, from switzerland. in fact, the people who started zipcar got inspired by what was happening in europe, which is basically a big blackboard that has fees and names and get to go and the ratio name. when you think about that you say, well, was car sharing going to scale? no. but the technology really frees us up and frees up the tools and

the assets. >> and so we will have you define all a bit of the sharing economy and they will get andy and build into. so the sharing economy is what? how to define that term i and te scope of it right now? >> you know, i'll tell you the way i think about it. i think about it as we are moving from the world in which ownership was the real one option to a world in which assets the goods, services and talent will triumph over ownership. that's the fundamental. so we are able, it doesn't mean we won't own things. i certainly still own things and expect i always will. but it's more that we have the option of also accessing experiences or services or talent or assets, tools, buildings, vacation homes when we wanted. and we just pay for what we used. so the business model because of

the technology, the business models are plentiful. much more interesting and with much more granularity so that we can really choose exactly what we want when we wanted in the case for what the value, the true value. >> andy ruben, you worked for wal-mart, one of the top largest country's in the world. i believe their logo is something like buy more, live better. so they're in the business of making lots of stuff. so how did you come to sharing from working at such a large retailer? >> one of the genesis of yerdle was the obviousness of what, we're living in a world one of the things that amazes me is there's 62 lego bricks for every man, woman and child on this planet. we are living in th a world of h abundance of things that we own and the technology we are just talking about that says, when my daughter goes to play soccer in the fall, my first thought right

now is i would buy shin guards from a region. when there are dozens of girls or one year older who are done with the shin guards and are not five miles away in a dissipation city, the distribution centers of the teacher our garages. to our ability through the service that we launched yerdle allows you to join yerdle, be connected with your friends and have access to the wealth, the thing we've been amassing four years can be put to better use. and the beauty we have seen of that, the fact that most people talk about my own experiences, there's such an amazing beautiful connection of being able to pass on shin guards to someone, it's a gift that passing something on for someone who's looking for that. and that's a special opportunity. >> that already exist, it's called goodwill or it's called other things. people do through school. what i guess what are you saying

is this new technology platform is making a more easier and more convenient. >> one of the things we love about the state is this is not a newfangled technology that no one has ever thought of passing on to something onto a friend but it's the ability to put something you care to do in the of some is looking for. while we know a lot about the people we hang out with the people we work with and go to school with, we don't always know who is in need of a keyboard for their son to take piano lessons again so the ability of technology to help no the use of something that you have at your done with or in the conference, that my daughter will play soccer, who's got shin guards? that's where technology as lisa was saying changes the dynamic of how sharing can be, it's an existing behavior but the ability to do that at scale and with the efficiency allows sharing to become part of a model. >> there's also the investing model. ellie parish, your partner,

similar technologies are changing the way people can pull capital that can make investment. so we're talking about consumers and investor. tell us how you came to mosaic and how that is part of the sharing economy broadly defined? >> yeah, you know, mosaic allows people to directly invest in clean energy projects, and energy is the largest market in the world. and to get to 100% clean energy, ma we need $100 trillion of investment to get there. and over the last couple of years we fully channeled $250 billion into clean energy. that's almost entirely been banks that kind of on that asset class. and so what we are unlocking is the ability for individuals to participate in that asset class to be ngos, energy producers, not just energy consumers. it's answering this access

question and that the current rate is going to take a 400 years to build out the clean energy capacity we need. so we need more people to get in on the game to participate in this economy and they've been locked out of it somehow speaks of the older models are broken. i hear it across all of us. let's talk a little bit about motivation. do people do this because they want to save money? on me, a lot of these companies, i first started hearing about them during the recession and with certain demographics people who maybe can't afford a car, hey, we will share one. it's cheaper than hotel. was vistage of the recession and hard economic times? is that the driver? >> i think it's one of the factors for sure. i think that there were several things that came together, population density in cities, and 2010 was the first time in the history of our planet that people have been keeping records that we have moved into being

more than 50% of the people living in urban environments than in rural once. so population density, more people -- more people in the same physical space and fights less stuff. we don't want of a less exciting life so we are then trading things were experienced. the recession, in my view, was certainly a provoker of a lot of this. in fact, much of the racers that's been done and what you look at car sharing our air dnb type platform, what you see, what you told is the first time that people do it, i car shared because i put my car of because i'm not using it that much and to make $700 a month but it was really with it. or you know, the average in san francisco is $9300 host makes toward saddam in severance is the. so yeah, the study that, in fact, they did a study last year

that said that there's a significant number of the host number of the host for i shall airbnb money to support their regular life, nothing really fancy but just pay the mortgage, pay the energy bill, those sorts of things. the general report is that people try it first because it makes financial sense. and then there's this jack-in-the-box, there's a surprise inside. the sharing economy surprise inside is that you feel good. you are connected not always, i imagine it's not an always true thing but the general feedback has been that they continue to do it often because they met cool people or they had a really nice expand or it felt much nicer to borrow a car or stay in somebody's home and stay in a hotel because they went native when they visited, you know, san francisco or new york or whatever the city was. but to your point, absolutely, the savings is a pretty

compelling initial spark that gets people going. >> so economics and social. one of the great achievements of the last 20 years is we build bigger houses for the apart from each other so we are more isolated. andy ruben, is that social connection part of? >> absolutely. and one of the things that excites the right not about the space is with the advent of technology, there are just better models. so when there are better models they're better because they make economic sense. they make social sense. they make emotional sense. they provide a community. and at that point as the better models constantly better models of commerce, better models of transportation, less hassle with parking but whatever they are, you don't have to consciously any other transition you have to convince people to move to them. people experience the better models that they don't go back. >> how big is the sharing economy now? as a percentage of the was

totally economy, i mean, isn't this a berkeley and boulder and boston think what is it can't how big is the sharing economy, doing a? >> my answer is no, we don't know. i think we're at the very beginning of something that's going to be really fundamental to reshape how we think about living, working, spending. and i think i'm and community. i would say there's a huge piece of it actually about people being more connected, you know, there are stats some $3 billion worth of crowds -- proud funny expected by individuals or it's growing very rapidly. it's something like six thousand plus new members on a monthly basis. >> what is dished it's a marketplace similar view, let's say on ebay where people are crafters or make things put with the make up for sale and people by what they have made. and that making a living or

supplementing a living but they're getting to express themselves through a service like fc pics of these are growing but i think we are really in the very early stages. and there's one other piece which i hope, you know, you will see the evolving over the next hopefully year or two. is policy and regulation. that you know, a lot of what we have certainly with the fcc and various other you know organizations, who are regulate especially in the united states are very organized around the contempt last century's model. things are changing very rapidly and i think the regulators are having a real challenge keeping up with what is really a significant challenge to old thinking. >> so policy often lags innovation, and the and a couple of cases specifically whether it's been a common is the

hotels. people state in airbnb its efforts ago. they don't pay the hotel tax. that's a big problem for the city of san francisco so what's the solution better for and economies depend on the hotels, the city doesn't like you. there's destruction were policy hasn't cut up -- caught up the innovation. >> i would say that we are lucky in severance is good because mayor lee has but sharing a common front and center in his platform. he has formed working committees and there's groups of people really dedicated to figuring out innovative policies that, for example, with airbnb keep companies that of the forefront of this new industry in san francisco. and at the same time our balance out the benefits across the city itself. so the hotel tax which is 40% in the city would sort of really good a real kind of, would quell

a lot of i think the activity around airbnb. and so, and using them as an example, there are many other services and platforms. but the city is really looking at a balance point in time to figure out how to do that. london and new york and other cities are working on similar things. i'm quite encouraged, i would say cities are going to share between the cells because as one tries some new model or some new policy, there's increase interaction between the various innovation officers of the city to see. one of the big things cities are sharing with all of us and also between themselves is a data. and i think that they'd in many ways is kind of a gateway drug of the sharing economy. it allows us all my god, with so many controllers and so many shin guards and so many things here, you, but also allows you to see how many cars, how many parking spaces are not used and

all sorts of assets can be managed in different ways that are high value to the city but using last century's business model they leave a lot of money on the table. >> billy parish, got a lot of battles. outpacing policy. just to get regulatory approval to sell the kind of investment to allow people to invest directly in a sewer project which before they couldn't do. you could invest in a pipeline directly but you could invest in a sewer project. tell us about the regulatory hurdles you had to go through and have a policy that been lagging. >> the regulations energy were designed for fuel energy sources other all sorts of tax incentives and benefits for people to invest in pipelines or oil rigs and things like that. and the regulations about our financial industry was designed for banks. it's been challenging to

publicly offer investment -- >> do you take out two huge industries, not just one? >> yes. we are at the intersection of these two industries that were really designed for different ft time, as lisa said. and our challenge was to show the regulators that these investments that we're putting together are the same types of investments that banks have been interesting in for decades. and we just want to allow people to participate in investing them in -- investing in them as well. it took over a year to get approval of our model and we were really the first in that space to do that. so we had to break a lot of new ground to enable that. >> with a lot of fancy lawyers. so the sharing economy was on the cover of "forbes" magazine i believe in january. is wall street taking notice? obviously the financial media has taken notice. as wall street taking notice?

>> i don't think that banks are scared yet. i don't think, you know, in the financial industry, you know, the two companies that have really begun to scale to a level that i think the banks are beginning to pay attention our lending clubs which facilitate peer-to-peer consumer loans. so they allowed me to make a loan to someone to help them refinance their credit card. and that allows the borrower to get a lower rate than they can get from the bank and that allows me to have access to an asset class that i didn't have access to before and to make returns on my investment. so into consumer lending space, they have done $1.8 billion in peer-to-peer bones. it's just beginning in other sectors spent and that raises a key point which is trust et cetera nice be some arbiter

of trust in all these things whether it's facebook, andy ruben, where you share your tools with people you know, or there's something that says someone validates am going to lend $50 to, they will pay back that they're a good credit risk. let's talk about the importance of trust and enabling this kind of sharing, just sharing economy. andy ruben, your platform is premised on people sharing with someone they know or someone who can one degree of separation. >> correct. at this point when you log onto your old you do with facebook because of the esa on with facebook it provide you right away on average several hundred users. so the average person joins yerdle choice between 30320 items that are available based on the connection face but this was a very compelling starting place. it's been stated forever, no, it has alternatives to go way

beyond there. it's part of the first move to get these things moving with trust though is anyone yet made a connection with, right, or a friend of the person who has experimented, you have enough trust with a friend or through a friend that we minimize kind of the exploding post a risk and we provide the upside and the excitement of sending a special book to somebody whom you that a connection with, somebody want to get to know better, someone you haven't seen in a while. so it provides a good starting point. for us it's an essential model. >> i have a lot of friends i wouldn't let bar my car though. there are parameters of trust, right? so lisa gansky, there's a different dimensions of trust. there's people you trust in some areas but not in other areas. >> totally, yeah. spent how does that play out in this economy? >> so i'm not going to borrow your car. breaking the news in front of everyone. let's see, i would say basically

we all have people, so i don't know about you guys, how many people have more than 500 friends on facebook? about a third of the audience. >> how many people ask we know those people? >> right, can be facebook friend you don't message are no. >> my point is i think the whole meaning of friend is sort of more, moved into what i call a tofu word, that start to be like everything else. you can use it for everything and now, but if someone said to me, like would you be willing to share this photo you took tonight with all your facebook friends, i would say sure. but when they be willing to let them watch my kid or use my car? the answer is no. i don't ask we know probably more than 50% of them. so i think a lot of what we are doing in this process is kind of creating a level of transparency

and building systems for knowing how to vouch for each other. who would you trust for which sort of thing. like you said, there's different people who you would trust to do different sorts of things. have access to your personal files versus borrow your car or coming in, somebody would want to go in with to purchase, to make a purchase. >> what about the demographics? is this in under 40 kind of thing where people are pretty web savvy hip? are their grandmothers who are sharing gains? i don't know. [laughter] >> i can't answer that, but there are demographics art as you say, certainly it's kind of bookends. so we have twentysomethings and 20, 30 somethings and you have kind of the 45 and up. and the services are diverse enough that people use different sorts of service.

so for example,, you know, billy gave the peer-to-peer lending clubs. there's another one, prosper. they actually offer as a person is money and wants to put someplace that offer good returns. and so it's up to you. you see people, for example, grandparents, i do know about trading gains, but they're looking for a place to park money that they think is a reasonable risk and a lot of these places have a really high, a very high percentage of return, or said another way, the default rate of these lending clubs are far less by probably an order of magnitude than commercial banks. >> and for us the range from 1 18-95, 95 you invest on the platform. the averages about 40. increasing we are finding that people are investing because

they don't trust the financial, the broader financial system that only 20% of investors in america trust wall street and trust the banks. >> and you know where your money goes. like when you invest in solar mosaic or something you know your money is thing locally. it's not going into a blackhole summer, doing who knows what. what. >> and there's this connection of trust and transparency that our goal is to allow people to actually see everything about the investment, people can download the prospectus. vacancy whether investment is. they can go visit it. the idea that you could put your ira and something they can actually see, touch and feel, and feel good about i think is increasingly something that people are want to because they don't know where the money is going out and after the recession, and the financial

crisis i think that showed a lot of people's confidence. that the system is set up for them because it's not. >> the tv show, the system is rigged by the people of the tippy tippy top. if you're just joining us, andy ruben, cofounder of yerdle and lisa gansky, author of "the mesh: why the future of business is sharing." andy ruben, you want to get in your? >> we just talked about two points. in the past might seem like there's tension between them. on one hand you what kind of the trust and safety of knowing where something can go. you know, given a choice you would rather pass on -- to someone you work with compared to most people would, compared to a complete stranger. and on the other hand you want the size of the market that provides the wealth of options in that demands. one of the changes that were

definitely seeing at yerdle as we progress is that technology is eliminating some of the historical trade off when you have to make a choice between them are only going to share with a tight people i trust with to have the immediate trust or michael and have access to everything. and what we are seeing based online with mobile, the technology, is that by connecting groups of people and for most people on yerdle you have fairly high level of trust with people you work with, people you went to school with. people that your kids might go to school with. and that it is actually a fairly robust market within a much more transparent and evidence system of trust. so it's a historical trade off that i believe is changing as we move through this with the advent of exposure and technology. >> is this going to result in people buying less craft, less stuff than the ultimate change capitalism in a profound way? does this mean we will buy more

and share them or? >> on an absolute sense, absolutely. the reason that will happen is because there is, you know, they need, what we can do anywhere is they serve a need for an experienced. that's my daughter played soccer. i have the need to buy shin guards. and so the experience is where it's at and we've been in a model for years right now where the only way to solve that need is to go and order something online that gets delivered at the door. the experience is in change. i don't expect the people played last soccer. there are just better ways of getting the things that you need so that your kid can go play soccer. so there actually, it will not be one-to-one and it will not be easy to track. but i think without a doubt as we have more access to things we already own, and will be less need to produce that same number of items spent lisa gansky, that means gdp is going to go down. gdp is the measure of output of

stuff that is producing and consuming. so it and he isn't just talking about is recession is probably too strong, ma but a different way of slower economic growth. >> or redefining economic growth. the other piece is gdp is really in my view measuring what was very relevant last century it became was set, which was we are in the industrial revolution. we figured out how to make a lot of stuff really fast, really cheap and send it everywhere. okay, let's now track that and so what we did was basically take lots of stuff and count, making stuff, selling stuff, buying stuff, throwing stuff away and buying new stuff. that's a model that we have been trained on. what this is saying is essentially there's a read commerce. there's a remanufactured. there's a reproducing. there's a reverse value chain,

however you want to call about the business of taking things after we're finished using them, as we bought them and waste costs money but in our current model waste has been subsidized. now what's going to happen -- >> and not measured. >> will happen in the future is the cost of waste, water, and energy is what's really going superhigh. and so you will start to see the true cost of waste coming through. and that's one of the big reasons that all of us are going to go, holy crap, all the stuff i have in my garage or sitting around the two kayaks that were in my crotch, i figured out something else to do with them but i still get access. >> i really wanted to buy a kayak but i talk to you on the phone. >> just come over. but you won't let me use your car. >> that's true. if companies looking at this are thinking okay, and if this is going to happen and there seems to be a sense of not inevitability that there's some

powerful forces and in this direction, what a compass going to do? their profits would be threatened? how are they going to adapt to this, the pressure from the sharing economy that is small right now but it's going to grow? billy parish, any thoughts? >> well, you know, i had lunch a couple months ago with the chairman of shell, and he said they're talking in the management meetings about the future of distributed clean energy. and right now they been doing very well, record profits on this centralized fossil fuel mall but they're talking on a regular basis about how they get to this other world. they don't know how to do it. they said we will buy it when we see it, sort of what he said was their approach. and i think a lot of the big incumbents in these industries are beginning to look and see what is this going to look like

and it's going to be more about service and less about new creation. and i think there are opportunities across the value chain that they can step in and create value in different ways other than extracting from the earth. spin is that going to happen at wal-mart, become a service company? there'll buddhist monk is pushing as much stuff out the door as possible, shopping carts stuffed to the gills but will there be some kind of service oriented more than consumption oriented? >> i guess we'll see about wal-mart but i think in general, in general i don't feel badly for companies that don't continue to innovate to changing marketplaces. the opportunity is there. it's the job of the people who lead these companies to understand where the market moved into understand the risks and the opportunities that are inflicted in the. and with any modicum just like this one, one of the things we're seeing that is exciting,

there's a lot of conversation of what happens when, i give my old went to lisa and lisa doesn't buy a blender? one of the things are seeing right now, many more will happen, because we're friends i'm going to let please note that the court is a little bit afraid, and example we saw to immediately because it's very transparent, so that says i can fix the court for you, and so new models will be borne out of the forward progress of better ways of doing things. and i would've never three months ago said my gosh, there will be a day when items that people are supposed to give away will be somehow denoted that it just needs a little bit of love, a little bit of attention and to behold groups are industries born out of an ability to service like billy just mentioned, service things and make them differently that we can get more productivity out of them. >> are just the recovery of waste. like i read a couple years ago

that a ton of mobile phones actually has more usable gold than a ton of raw gold or. so what we are calling ways actually has in many ways has a ton about it and i don't mean what we're throwing away but also with sitting around. so that are big companies by the way as well as cities who have been pretty i would say happily forward thinking and aggressive in testing different things. ge has launched ge garages last year, which is beginning to experiment with opening up their community of workers and material as well as factories to local communities. they also do ge challenge which was the crowd sourcing. actually renewable energy for appliances solutions and products. because they realize that the real innovation is not coming from inside the company but all the innovators that are outside

the company would ever come to work for ge. how are they going to capture that value and invited with the dude was great and interesting crowd source platform. nike is doing really interesting things. unilever, the countries all over the world, many of them are in the corner shaking up retaining it's going to go away. but having lived through the very early stages of the internet, it's not that different. >> if you're just joinin joinins were tired but assuring a convict lisa gansky, author of "the mesh: why the future of business is sharing." andy ruben is cofounder of yerdle and former vp at wal-mart. and bill parish is founder and president of solar mosaic. i'm greg dalton the is this going to help with the carbon equation. we talked about less stuff, less extracting. is this going to help us, you can talk about ways but particularly carbon pollution that is disrupting the global climate, disrupting a lot of models are broken here at our

energy model is broken. out at the economic -- our economic model is constrained. andy ruben? >> when we think of toxins and waste and energy, it's like products, if the element sitting all around is that we don't talk a lot about, there's a tremendous amount of embedded energy in household products on average for every one pound of product there's 71 pounds of waste that went into making that item somewhere in the supply chain. and it's not that, there are great options recycling products but before you recycle a product that better option is to get more use out of it. ansa -- >> reduce, reuse, recycle spent the order actually matters. that's a phenomenal opportunity of not only do we have and should people continue to work on making a shoe, a little bit less energy intensive, but then also raising the question of as i produce a shoe, can it be worn twice as much?

and when you think about that side of the equation, it's the first time that i'm aware of that we actually have the ability for these companies to move beyond simply looking at the supply chain and the stopping the relationship at the point of purchase. as lisa mentioned, with great upside of companies that innovate that carried it relationship beyond. >> we had the ceo of levi and the beauty of patagonia recently talking about sort of what happens at the end of useful lifecycle but also ebay, if you're done with that jacket that goes on ebay and that's, those countries are okay with it. it doesn't dilute their brand. billy parish, did you want to get in on that? >> americans think about energy for "60 minutes" a year. i think that's partly because we are just passive energy consumers. and so for us we are trying to channel a lot more money into the clean energy economy,

financing more solar energy systems which will help drive down carbon pollution. it's also about getting people involved. that's one of the things that the internet enables it. it's a platform for engagement, forgetting people to be not just passive consumers but producers, owners in this new economy. we think that will translate into political power that will translate into helping to pass more policies to accelerate. we have a million investors. clean energy investors on our platform. did show up in sacramento in a very different way than our position that has a bunch of e-mails. these are actually investors, that i think is an exciting sort of additional part of the solution spent a cool thing is think about the sun as a revenue stream. sunlight coming down to its like literally dollars, that's going into your 401(k). i believe the return, as a stock

market at all time high today, as the return to overcome how does it compare to traditional bank cds? is there typically more return, more risk? >> so the range of return, expected and the rates of has been between four and have and 6.38%, which beats the cd. most other available publicly available investment products on the market. >> that's got to be more risky. >> finish it when we started the coming week thinking people will want to put solar on the road or on the kennedy center and we will create a platform for them to get together and fund that. i think we may vote to do that down the road, but we realize we are really creating a new kind of investment product and experience, and are taking a high road approach to that. so really curating the best credit on our platform, the

lowest risk investment that we can. because you know, and this gets back to that trust question. one of the challenges of this new economy is people renewed to be able to trust that the platform itself is helping to take care of people so that's become a major focus at mosaic and i know you saw what happened with airbnb. they had some we had a bad experience, the house got wrecked. they doubled down on trust and insurance and that i think i is incumbent on the platforms for going the extra mile, setting new standards for customer service and protection. so i'm sure all of us are thinking about how to even do a better than the existing products out there in the mark market. >> and your first round of investment sold out in what, 24 hours? better than you anticipated. we going to go to audience

questions in the. i want to ask each of you, there's hundreds of countries after in a sharing economy as i mentioned in the introduction where you can share elegant can. i would like to ask lisa, what are some of the ones out there that are your favorites for sharing products or services that you wouldn't -- spent well, solar most take and yerdle. [laughter] spent otherwise. spent in all honesty both of them were present interesting classes of business. i think that there are a number of, so if you look from like every day i live my life kind of thing, a lot of, a lot of the services that are kind of airbnb like, one might stay airbnb, loved homes, they're all slightly different. but it really does give you a

chance, do you have a different perspective in your own city. so i use some of the services not only when i travel but also around here. it's interesting to you get a really interesting sense of the neighborhood. recent and new entries? i mean, odyssey you two guys are doing really cool stuff, but -- >> anyone out there that is really interesting? >> nothing pops in my. you probably know. >> thank you that we use. we were going through a designing new logo and we went to two platforms, crowd spring and 99 to sign and said this is sort of what we want in a logo, and we got hundreds of designs and designers all around the world. it was a 16 year-old girl in indonesia that designed the sort of mosaic new logo. so that's an example of -- >> that's a flat world. >> she can beat out those in new york. >> let's go to audience

questions. we are going to invite her participation here with one part question or comment. i'm here to help you keep it brief. if you're undecided we invite you to please go to those tours rather than tossing the cameras. and the line starts with our producer in the back. she is often the most lively part of the program. kind of come on up and will invite your participation. >> we're talking about the sharing economy climate. welcome. >> wal-mart, i used to work so i share some of your pain. don't stress about it too much because you're just telling people stuff they don't need. and i really take that sort as a here doc today and i think about how we measure economic activity. i think what are the new ones that will measure and how do we measure that, key performance indicators that we speak we talk about things like gdp as one

type of kpi. i'm very christian your thoughts around what do you see and how can we potentially measure some of these outputs? the father came to my mind which talking about the blender. if i don't have to go buy a blender, people might say you just impact of it, and a negative way, but nasa don't have to go by that blender now i can use that money towards other things. besides money, how are we measuring nonmonetary input and output of the economy? >> what are some of the yardsticks for sharing economy, lisa gansky? >> first of all i think the notion of transactions versus products, so people are looking at, you as an odd for nor, you spend money on three things. you build a team, you bully product or infrastructure and you acquire customers. if you look at what's happening with music and publishing right now, those industries relative, the old guys, old models relative to, say, amazon. amazon has really learned that

you love stephen king and the market specifically to do as opposed to pay for marketing to everyone. so there are cost of acquisition oof a customer wants bad, especially as a prime customer is really zero for every subsequent transaction. that's a really compelling model in disney world. and i think that increasingly we are going to see all sorts of companies going after that. you see that every major auto manufacturer in the last few years has actually redefined himself declaratively by saying we're not in the auto business. we are in the mobility business. which lens, it's poetic but also it opens up for all sorts of things. semantics include transactions but i think waste is going to be value, because if we are remanufacturing and recovering what we used to call waste as real value in the supply chain that's going to have real value coming back. and so there's a lot of things that we're sort of out of the

peripheral vision of the old and social economy that becomes very intricate. and possible -- impossible to measure because people being connected to these networks. transactions are ways that are up right now for grabs. >> andy ruben? >> one thing i would add is in the way the world changes for global and information, in the old world for retail the average person at a store front parks 23 spots away from the front door. once you park your car you've essentially paid a cover charge and then you're just going to pick up additional items. where loyalty was all about a minute to get you to park your car at their store opposed to the one next to them. today, in a world where with a mobile phone you can be in a store and buy a product from a competitor's store and basically the endless options of number of products and offerings in price of the to the options, loyalty

has always been around in retail but takes on a very different meaning. and so while the metric is a new, not like love is a new metric, the role that loyalty plays and the cost that lack of loyalty to have good business is why we are seeing models like amazon prime and the target redcarded that are as much about maintaining t the customer as ty are about selling items. and so i would say to continue to watch for existing metrics to take on new meaning with, as technology becomes more prevalent in our lives. >> there's one more that that you reminded me of, which i would say the valley of data, and increasingly there's a real value not only for instances of data, but share data has more value. and so we're going to see a real shift. i actually think we'll see a shift towards shared things, things designed for sharing, service is designed for sharing, and data that's been shared will have more value than those that are sort of inside of a wall.

>> and you talk about, say, a high-end vacuum cleaner and rare that will then be designed as kind of like cell phones now where it's something that you got to buy a subscription to you by an upgrade path. you buy a lifelong of happy clean. i don't know. spent i don't know about those two words going together spent the idea that a company that makes it agreed to take a back from you at some point and give you something that is newer, better and you are willing to share some data in that exchange. >> very much, and what we've all been talking to which is i think that's right, that these companies are going to be incented, and we sent slightly happening in addition to cell phones certainly with cars, where, you know, your car company gives you 100,000 miles or those sorts of things, i think that products are going to be the responsibility of the manufacturer. that they're going to think more wisely about maintenance and

building things as platform so that their upgradable and the cost of waste and how they will set up communities to service things. similar to sort of dealerships spent and not make them so they break down an and use of data by anyone. >> precisely pick for that reason they're really looking at if they have the responsibility of, because if the onus is on them is the most expensive thing they do is to acquire us as a customer, then you don't want to do that every year or every time there's an interaction. instead, if we are their customer and there's this relationship and they continue to perform, they still have to delight us, because no one wants to really be held hostage in the equivalent of a crafty cell phone contract, right? so anyway, sorry. you hav had a question. >> i have a personal question. i see this against another trend that technology is enabling, the

personalization of products, how you can get your own stuff made cheaper for just you. you can get your jeans made for you. the 3-d printer is on the cusp of being able to have people make things home on a personal basis. is this going to break down in such away as something to be shared, something to be personalized, or will it be some people do their sharing and some people do the personalization? thank you. >> personalization sharing. who would like to talk about? >> i would just give you one comment which is i definitely think that sort of attention that, i lost your name, but the woman just represented is that the major economy, people being able to make things and 3-d printers, i don't know if ever is familiar with those, but it's basically a printer that drives the design off, a computer design and it basically prints the 3-d item. so for example, a friend of mine

had an irrigation system to the expensive effects. they stand a three-dimensional scan of a part, and after a few hours and a few glasses of wine, they had actually made the part that they could been snappy and. spent out of line. >> which is really amazing but it didn't last long. so that notion that you can print something i think is at least for the moment sort of quite a geeky thing. having been in the photo business, you know, there was a lot of many companies thought that everyone would have photo printers in the house and the printing photos. i'm guessing that not many of us do that. so there are people, like 99 designs, which barely referred to earlier as a platform of lots of artists all over the world. i think that what we will see as this aggregation of makers, artists, architects, designers who can come up with really cool

things. and then access to platforms, whether it's 3-d printers housed at kinko's or your house, or a hacker code working space or ee factory has been opened up as a platform. i think we'll see all sorts of ways where there's a decoupling of people who were capable of designing things and people who actually have infrastructure to allow those things to be made. >> that sounds very creative and innovative and also very disruptive. so who is really threatened by this? >> not the three of us. [laughter] >> can i build on one of the comments lisa just make him which i think is a question of personalization. ..

>> the way we build sharing is not that anybody never buys anything knew, but sharing is an increasingly go-to option for a suite of things, and for many o occasions, it's a smarter option to save money, resources, and it creates all human connection. it doesn't mean nobody's ever going to make anything. it's the question to access of sharing and makers and the access to new items. put together in a way that provides, allow the retailer to better serve needs. >> sounds more like another terming, the gig economy, where people work independently as freelancers. is this a less large centralizedded kind of economy where things are more decentralized, that manufacturing is decentralized

like he's talking about energy? >> i would say more than today. >> yes, i think it's very much moving to distribution. there was a number of articles about coworking spaces that are being used by big corporations all over the world because they realize that it's an interesting way not to create their own space, but to submerse their teams in public coworking spaces because it creates more interaction, more surface area, and more awareness that the sharing. >> it's not just because it's cheaper, but that actually people come up with ideas, and, oh, innovation. >> like i said, the surprise inside is what happens in a sort of in the personal aspect of the sharing economy, you know, it's what both guys referred to as the community, and i think that

the community takes that word gets -- meant to be different things by different people depending on who is talking about it, but the community, for example, in the beginning, and i don't know the current stats, but up to three years ago, more than 40% of the people buying things were actually makers who were selling on etsy taking money and buying from other maybers on etsy. >> like a craft fair is what it sounds like to me. >> yeah, in this case, but the size of the craft fair is impressive. you know, like i said, there's over -- 619,000 new members a month so these are things that are growing and making a shift, and the fundamental aspect is the one city or corporation and

things opened more as a platform to drive engagement and to invite openness, transparency, and participation. >> andy? >> yeah, we talked a few times, the word "community" came up, and i want to take a specific example to that because it is one of the unexpected, you know, retails intended to be transactional, and as we think of the way this world changes and the ability to have people involved in the giving and getting, we recently upgraded memory on a mac into be at home with four megaof memory that traditionally would have been in the closet until i moved. as i post memory, the ability of the friends to see that, they took that to upgrade the unified school district, and a part that was interesting to me on the exchange was i paid, you know, $40 for the memory.

i got more value out of the memory i got rid of going into the san fransisco school and i saw a picture of the kids than i did out of the $40 from the faster memory, and it's one of the unexpected areas of being more connected where those are beautiful moments, and they are not moments that i'm used to in a traditional retail sense where you just -- so appreciative of something you bought in a transactional way, and that's why -- that's the unexpected community benefit we talk about. >> that doesn't show up in gdp. >> it does not. >> it does not, no. >> next welcome. >> a company involving in the sharing economy, scoot network, like zip car, but for students, and based on that perspective, there's a question about where you think of the future of the sharing economy goes in terms of whether or not it's providing -- [inaudible] that they already use. if there is a big potential for people to start doing new

things, getting access to new services, new goods, new, for example, scooters getting, ways of getting around, whether or not you think it's just going to help peopled too things more easily or actually start to do things never done before and blornt that's going to be a whole new market in and of itself. >> who wants to tackle that one? >> well, i have a quick answer and i'm sure they have something. my view is a lot of the sharing economy invites trials or almost like a tapas bar. i said "tapa" [laughter] which is basically that you can have little tastes of thins, i can they the electric scooters or try a cool car i thought about buying and realize i don't need to buy it from a shared service or buy it, you know? i think much of what we've seen, for example, people trying out neighborhoods with rbb,

coworking spaces, those things invited a kind of exploration of an experience or of a neighborhood. on the other hand, i think people are using the services. for example, something that's really, i've been really impressed with is something call trade school started in brooklyn, and it's a barter system. basically, it invited trade schools building subsequently a platform so there's trade schools popping up in singapore, the last i saw last week, but they pop up all over the world, and ideally, it works you get to know the neighbors because you teach each other the things that ewe are really passionate about, and you give each other classes. it's completely a parter system. people, i think, out of that, have these interesting experiences and move to, yeah, let's go a mushroom foraging course together or take on

exploration to do something else. hacker spaces are another good example where i think people try things that they wouldn't have otherwise tried and may decide they want to be a designer or, you know, have access to laser engravers and things that they, themselves, would not buy, but would love to learn how to use, and so i think one of the things the sharing economy invites is fairly, maybe typically out of reach experiences that many ofous would like to have but don't really know how to access. now, there's a suddenly there was a service about that, like cheese making in san fransisco, i found out, by the by the way. >> cool. next question, couple minutes left. >> i'm franklin, and the question's related to the constraints with the business model. it seems like the ma -- majority of the businesses work because of the access capacity or low utilization rates of an asset.

you have utilization rates at 60%, people are very much willing to take a lower price to increase the utilization rate, but at some point, if you go from 60% to 80%, there's a low price, but maybe 80-90, you know, not so much, and so has be thought about the models, and at what point you tap out or cap out, i guess? >> yeah, maybe i can -- >> app di? >> yeah, a few things. with the current world range, speaking to the u.s. market for a minute. the average -- if you're in the average u.s. household, 80% of the items in the household are used less than one a month. in general, self-storage in the u.s. up a thousand percent in 30 years. that's not just a question of what we are not using, but not using to the extent of paying to hold on to it; right? it's beyond not use. you know, we have, you know, think of the pendulum swinging,

we have swung toll point that there's absolutely massive access capacity now, but the future of that, let's imagine a world where that capacity was to increasely be used up. i think we just begun the ability of more connection to think of the products that a jacket for a 6-year-old can get worn by, you know, 256-year-olds and go to hundreds of bonfires and ski trips, and be as good that day when it's done on the 1 # 00th trip as the day it was made, and that is simply a more valuable model than the take, make, waste and produce hundreds and all are recycled with increasing energy and less quality here. not only do we use the capacity we have, which is massive to make use of, but there are continuing models that are just better with more of the shared connection that don't go away, even as the capacity gets taken up a bit. >> that connection you assume is outweighing the culture, the

deeply embedded culture value of something that's new or better and the idea that, you know, you wear a usedded gadget like, oh, it's a hand-me-down, like it's lesserrings but it keeps you warm. there's a bias towards things that are clean and new and messages all the time say that's what we're supposed to do. >> that's absolutely correct that there's a bias towards new. what we see in everything that happened so far is that while something you get from somebody else, the complete stranger, would be worth less half. a padgonia is worth twice as much. we got a game from a friend of mine, pam, and every time i play the game op fellow, i think the pam, and the game is worth, probably a $9 game, but to me it's worth more because pam was generous to post the item, and we use that game, and so that's the importance for the yerdle

model in the social connection this is a beautiful agent of being able to take something you don't use and share with it with someone you care about or get somebody to care about you in that way. >> we have to wrap it up, but that's -- >> i was going to have a quick comment, in a lot of what we were organized around in the old model referred to was autonomy equals security. i think where we're coming to is that being connected equals security, that because we are connected into -- with people that we trust and because we act and can choose to be reorganizing communities, that's really what's kind of giving us our confidence. i mean, i've been in the bay area during the 89 # earthquakes, for example, and reorganized, self-organizing communities happen, you know, very quickly and bonds deep, and i think we're seeing that increasingly all around the world, not just by those sorts of things, but the technology

really allowed us to make connections that are resilient, and fun. >> that happens more with climate disruptions in communities that are most resilient and responds to things that we scientists tell us are coming our way. >> a quick comment, which i thought was interesting. sandy, in new york, after the sandy storm, clever people figured out they could use the registry, wedding registry from amazon and use the wedding registry from amazon to figure out who needed what to redistribute to people and families, you know, to i think the point all of us are making is we have an incredible inheritance, an incredible physical and digital inheritance of the things we have and to be connected and aware and to play together faster is great way.

>> some worked better than the old centralized model. ending there. we talked about the sharing economy with lisa, author of "the mesh: why the future of business is sharing," andy, founder of yerdle. i'm greg, and thank you for listening to climate one today. [applause]

>> new york city police commission ray kelly spoke with cnn anchor about the 16 terrorist plots against new york city that have been thwarted since 9/11 and the city's measures to protect itself.

here's a look. >> what's called a target-rich environment. we have a lot of io coppic targets, we have a lot of events where large numbers of people come together. they are concerned about, certainly, an event happening in boston. we've had these types of disaffected radicalized young men try to attack us here in the city. most recently, two individuals arrested in miamiment the quasi brothers for scouting out targets in new york city. it received little press, but it happened. they were arrested just this year. we had another who was arrested for -- convicted, pled guilty, for attempting to blow up the federal reserve bank. he thought he was detonating a thousand pounds of ammo, when, in fact, it was an fbi sting. he was convicted in february. it's sort of a constant stream

of individuals trying to come here and kill us. now, when you say, what do you worry about? we worry about the whole spectrum. we have to worry, you know, paid to think the unthinkable. we have to worry about a nuclear event happening in new york. we have worked with the federal government. there's a program called securing the cities, and we have 150 other jurisdictions in the area that we've signed on with to provide a, sort of a raid logical detection ring around new york city, so we -- we're not able to say, hey, we're worried about that sting only. it's a whole array of threats that are out there, and, you know, we don't see any diminishment of the threat. we see it as being relatively constant and doesn't change since 9/11.

>> tends to be a denigration of the u.s. military by some historians that whenever one ballian fought an american baaal yon or one regimen fought app american regimen, that the germans were tactically superior, that mono-o mon, and it's a clash of systems. it's which systems produce the wherewithall to project power in the atlantic, the pacific, the indian ocean, southeast asia, which system can produce the civilian leadership to create the transportation system, the

civilian leadership that is able to produce 96,000 airplanes in 1944. >> sunday, two-time pulitzer prize winning author takes calls, e-mails, facebook comments issue and tweets. in-depth" three hours live noon eastern on c-span2. according to the transportation stainability research center, north america has over one million car share members, and of these, 800,000 live within the u.s.. the commonwealth club of california in march brought together business leaders to discuss alternatives to tradition thal car ownership to some of the benefits to the environment. this is just over an hour. >> welcome to the conversation about america's energy economy, and environment. to understand them, you have to understand them all. i'm craig dalton. a few decades ago, if you didn't have a car or a bus nearby, you

had to stick your thumb out on the side of the road. today, you can employ fingers by opening a smart phone app and finding a ride across town or across the country. if you want to drive, do that too in a car owned by the company or a neighbor. over the next hour, we'll discuss the transportation piece of the sharing economy with the live audience here at the commonwealth club in san fransisco. pleased to have with us four people at the forefront of the innovations. rick hitchenson, ceo of city car share. ceo side car, ride sharing company in san fransisco, and a handful of other cities, and we have with us susan shaheen, directer of the transportation stainability research center at uc burkley, and we have kristin, head of public policy at list and similar ride. please welcome them to climate one. [applause] i want to ask youssef mejri got

-- you how you got into the car sharing economy. you have been doing this a long time. tell us briefly how you got into this new area, quite some time ago. >> uh-huh. i've been researching car sharing and share systems for 17 years, which is seeming like a really long time, and i thought it made tremendousceps after i saw a system of car train systems by one who came from the city on a german marshall fellowship, and i heard the lecture, and i said, a-ha, this is my topic. i was challenged by the committee who said there's no way americans will give up their cars, and i thought there might be a chance, and i never looked back. >> you wanted to prove your dissertation committee wrong. okay. >> yes. [laughter] >> paul, you were an investor, had a previous incarnation, you

believe it was -- another company issue tell us how you got into the sharing economy and the ride sharing. >> well, actually, my story begins way back in 1997, believe it or not. i had just moved to san fransisco, me and my wife had one car between us, and one day as i was waiting to be picked up, i had a little epiphany. before that, i had an idea which is i need to get another car. [laughter] the epiphany was my phone will know where i am and people driving by with phones know where they are. i thought, wow, one day we can rethink transportation around this idea. that led me to work through the ideas, got a patent in 2002, ran into the founders of city car share, another example of information technology rethinking transportation, on the board of city car share for several years, got involved in

the university, get around students or the students created get around, and spride is a company we tried, decided not to pursue, and got a law passed in california that enables car-to-car peer sharing, so this interest has been around a long time, and ride sharing, which is what side car does, is an opportunity to really expand this opportunity very, very rapidly and aggressively around the world. >> excellent. rick, ask you how you get into this. you're a nonprofit, how did you get into the space of car sharing? >> well, it was started by the couple local act vies back in the late 1990s who put cars in the road here in 2001. we are 12 years old. i'm a reformed banker, and i made me way out here, did a

couple startup, and then i ran into people who were doing amazing things in the phac of the environmental space and also armed, you know, innovation and technology so city car share lost its executive director, and after a little dance, i decided to join in the rest is history. >> get into car sharing, ride sharing, ect. in this part of the sharing economy. how did you come to the space of ride sharing and car sharing? >> yeah, so i initially was outside council to a number of high flying collaborative cop consumption companies, tax grab it being among them, represented investors in companies like wheels, and had started working with the ride back in 2010. they are one in the same. i grew closer and closer with

the founders, saw the vision in what they did in the last couple yearsing and i came on board full time three months ago to head up legal and couple policy matters. >> great. let's get basic terms in to set the table. you studied this for a long time. outline car sharing, ride sharing, key terms to dive into thousand they change the way people get around the world. >> uh-huh. the classic car sharing is fairly simple. it's the share -- >> pull your microphone on. >> oh. >> there we go, thanks. >> the shared use of the vehicle fleets by a group of members. they frequently pay an annual fee, a monthly fee, and pay by the hour, and in some cases, by mileage. there's a couple new flavors of car sharing that you've heard mentioned, and one is the peer-to-peer car sharing concept, and that's the idea of

people putting their own perm vehicles into the car sharing fleets, and we were also seeing a new form called one way, and companies like cart to go are out there and bmw, drive now, is operating here in the city, and that's a one-way model. in rick's model, a more classic model, individuals would go into an out of the same location for their access to the vehicle. with one way, you actually can take the vehicle from one location to another, so there's a lot of tremendous innovation happening in the car sharing space right now, and there's a lot of confusion about definitions and impacts and it's causing some flurry of activity here actually in san fransisco. in terms of ride sharing, there's flavors with that. the most simple, a fan pool, so a family sharing a vehicle, and

taking children to and from school with neighbors and there's a classic car sharing situation where people share a vehicle. there's longer distance trips, and what we see a try amount of innovation in, represented by side car and left, my colleagues here, is the idea of realtime ride sharing, so very dynamic, very insubstantiate so what we are seeing, in my opinion, is the growth and development of the shared use mobility space, and we don't know how it's going to shag out. we've got a lot of work ahead, particularly in the public policy arena. >> the con cement -- con concept's around a long time. why is this all happening now? the technology, hard economic

times that's kind of making people more cost conscious? what's driving it? >> well, i think there's three things that change. i actually looked at doing something like this in 99, and decided not to for three reasons, all which change. one, the technology was not ready. smart phone platforms, having them open, there are been smart phones for a long time. what changed? you can now have access to them without having to convince some big huge company to cooperate with you. you can publish it to the itunes store, the android store, and more are coming. second is there's interest on the part of everyday people in new forms of transportation. i think this is the -- we have more willingness to experiment with transportation than since world war ii. since that time, we accepted the automobile as the way it's going to be. it was the dominant technology

of our era. >> owning that automobile. >> yeah, that's right, a car that you owned, and for the first time, because of the technology, we -- and because of things like climate change, things like energy security, there is a willingness to try new things and technology as well, things like electric vehicles, ect., and third thing is there a political will to try new things. there is a political will to experiment. i mean, quick antedote. when i was advocating for av1871, i was sent into a republican's office because, well, i shouldn't say publicly all the reasons why i was sent in, but -- >> changed the way insurance is handled? >> yeah. >> okay. >> and the insurance companies could have easily killed this

bill. i was told with a single phone call, and i was told, also, these republicans were, you know, very minimal to the interest of the insurance policy companies, so i went in, met with a staffer, and i was prepared for all my arguments. first words out of the mouth were, this is the way of the future, insurance companies need to figure it out and get on board. i was -- i -- to me, that was an indication of, okay, there is a willingness to try new things in transportation and a willingness to except, well, the smart phone and information technology is the wave of the future. we are going to reorganize our entire society around this stuff and transportation's just one of the things. we've already done it with media and shopping and all manner of things. transportation's nearly the next big category to be transformed. >> when people -- one person at google venture said that in five years, your car will be your

smart phone. what does that mean? i mean, does that mean self-driving cars? does that mean more displays in the car? what does that mean? >> when we say that, we are talking about today when you want to do anything in modern life whether it's food from the store, get to work, you want to go out on a date, everything is mediated by the automobile, and now everything's mediated by your smart phone. you are going to be able to get the mobility you need whether it's going grocery shopping or going on a date or getting to work, all of that is going to be possible through your smart phone. ..one. >> let's talk about the size of this market. do we know how big this market is? there's lots of companies, that are pretty small. do we know how big it is? >> yes.

this is what i do. [laughter] i track these numbers for the industry. me.'s why you invited i have not i have not shared this with the public or the media. we just did our data collection for january 2013.erica north america surpassed thellior million mark for karch remembers. that includes mexico which isxi quite small. one program, canada and the u.s the u.s. is around 800,000 members. 820,000 members. >> car sharing our car riding? >> car sharing. >> that is tremendous growth, right? >> it has been growing. since we've started our tracking efforts in the late 1990's, we've never seen a decline. we've seen ongoing growth. i do think this product or service could scale much bigger

than what with see today. my concern is how do we look at this from a public policy stand foint grow those numbers bigger? i'm very interested in the question of scale ability now i used to be interested in how is this going to impact society and environment? >> who are those people? are they people who live in urban areas, people under 40 who live in urban air zpwhrass >> those are the common demographics. i think there's chances to grow beyond that in the business models and changes in the overall approach. i think everyone on this panel represents that change. >> then what are the impacts of that change on existing businesses, car company, we talked about insurance

companies? are the car companies going to sell fewer cars? >> they could sell more cars if they put them into car sharing systems. we see a number of automakers who are interested in providing these services. bmw, they are putting electric vehicles throughout. they could be a service provider as well as a vehicle provider. there's an opportunity for them to develop a new core competency in their business. ultimately, there might be an impact on the total size of vehicles. we're looking at a changing world where people are moving into urban areas. there is limited space. we're facing climate change and energy issues that are going to impact the future. i think the role of the automobile is changing.

>> bill was here from ford company and he said car sharing is going to happen whether we ike it or not. is this going to reduce vehicle miles traveled? or people are going to be moving around more because it is easier to do? >> that is an excellent question. i think there is this potential paradox as you make things more efficient people use them more. we'rehink in case of what doing, specifically with ride sharing, there's an opportunity to reduce emissions and reduce congestion. it has to do with the way that we do it. passengers must enter their destination and drivers can see what that destination is. we like to say the good of the

nation requires destination. conveying asically if you can make the ride shared then you can have reductions in emissions, you can have reductions in congestion. if you can't have that kind of sharing you're not going to get those benefits. >> is this someone commuting from san francisco to the east bay? is this the daily routine? if this is someone going down the 101 and wants to get into the car pool lane? >> we have a number of different people. we have a platform so people can indicate here is where i am and this is where i want to go. drivers can see where the pick up and destination is. if that is convent for them they will accept it. we have a guy in our system named nick, he works in mountain

view, he lives in the city. he turns on the app in the morning, he looks for somebody going south and they drop him off and he goes on to his job. that is one case. there are other times people turn it on to get out of the house and give rides to people because they like meeting people and it is a way to make extra money to offset their car costs. >> i take that as motivation for distinctive ve the banner -- >> the car stashs. >> is it the extra money that is a big motivater? >> i think there are a number of motivaters. one is the opportunity to make a little extra to offset your car costs. i think people believe in the long-term vision of the company, hich would have an effect in

miles traveled and greenhouse gas and emission reduction as well. >> how does that work? if i hop in and that car might be sitting in the garage, i might have taken a taxi and the taxi would be out there driving around. it could increase the greenhouse. >> that's a great question. this is something we've talked a lot about with susan in the past. i believe, officially with car sharing that was the problem. you had vehicles available to people who were did not have vehicles available. you are putting more cars on the road but which n the long term, you're having an overall positive benefit. that is our long-term vision as well. >> would that happen, susan? >> yes. a lot of times the early adopters of car sharing in a

city are people who never had access to a car. it is not surprising tow see an increase in miles traveled. the real gain is reduction for the miles traveled is to get people to sell cars or postpone car purchases. revealed thatdies one car sharing vehicle takes nine to 13 vehicles off the road six uses people to vehicles. that is where we're seeing the net effect. the total net effect is actual positive towards the environment. this study showed about 43% eduction in co2 emissions from those postponed and those car

purchases. >> you also have data on the impact and what it displaces in carbon and vehicles and miles traveled. >> in the bay area, we're ground central for car sharing, peer-to-peer sharing. there's more companies offering services to allow people not to have to own a car, or to get rid of a car. we've been experiencing that for years. 2/3 of our members say they have sold the car or delayed buying a car once they join us. study done back in the early longitude the only study that i know of and it shows cars take off the road. it showed that a greener ride

could have an impact on greenhouse gas emissions. based on the report and work that susan shaheen has done, we saved about 80 million pounds of co2 emissions. 80,000 fewer miles are driven on bay area roads. you asked a question about growth. there has been tremendous growth. when i joined in 2005, i had a number of 3205. last year, we issued number 40,000. there's been tremendous growth in car sharing. every single one those members is likely to have gotten rid of a car, not buying a car, or is thinking about getting rid of another car. you have reduction in greenhouse gas emissions but in all the co2

that is released in the production of those vehicles that would have been purchased. >> you claim your non-profit car sharing service is greener than four car sharing services. how? >> i'm using information that came out of a study back in 2008 that showed non-profit car sharing organizations do save more greenhouse gas emissions. what is the reason for that? i think there are several reasons and the main one is we have the greenest fleet in the industry. 45% of our cars are hybrid or electric vehicles. when we look at -- just based on e.p.a. standards, our fleet is about 35%-40% more fuel efficient than the standard car on the road today. >> i would say the former car share member i drove around -- i

wouldn't buy those car bus drie around in. is that true that for profit companies are looking to maximize their profit? >> what i would say is the data showed for profit and non-profit had a negative effect of redoesing co2 emissions or a positive effect for the environment. we did see that this effect was higher for the non-profits. i have another hypothesis for the dynamics of the fleet. i also think the pricing of how city car share prices have an impact. they do charge by mile. i think that has an impact on the total number of miles driven by a city car share vehicle. it is contained more inside the

pricing of a for profit company. does that make sense? >> sure. for relay rides and theers models where people are using their own car, they may not be he cleanest or a hybrid. is there an incentive to be clean and green in the model? >> you know as far as not with respect to the way city car share is doing it but what is clean and green about it, you have less vehicles on the road. less vehicles total, more people using their vehicles in an efficient way. even if you're not driving a prius you maybe are taking another car off the road. >> i read a statistic that 80% of the car seat miles are empty.

you think of a five-passenger car and during rush hour -- so we're talk aboutal pretty big cultural change here prp for all those people who are used to listening to n.t.r., we love them, or sports radio and picking up a stranger, do i want to talk to you all the way to san jose? really? how is this working culturally to ride with strangers and make that commitment? >> i think it is working remarkably well. i think there's this whole culture that -- i'm old enough to remember texas chainsaw massacre. there is -- one thing that surprised me was that we put all these safety measures in into place and people have taken to it. the background check of the , all , the rating systems

of these systems have, i think built confidence that this is a safe system. enough so when we surveyed the users, 71% think it's safer, they feel safer in a ride they atched through us than a taxi. we've been around for less than a year of offering this service. >> someone who recently took my first thrilling ride in another company that is a real time dynamic, basically, replace taxi. i like the fact i can see the guy's face before he picks me up, eni have his information afterwards. that moderates the drivers and i get to check one or five stars, that has an effect on the person's behavior. i think trust seems to be a big part of this. user confidence or

accountability in both directions to making this work. >> we have this new model of trust that is now possible. it is because of social media, just the ability of feedback. there is little accountability before. casual car pool here in the bay area transports 5,000 people a day with no accountable. >> that is where you wait on the side of the road and a carpals up and you don't know who they are. >> that's right. so we took that model and was like, gee, can we take that and make it work across the entire bay area and around the country? and the answer is yes, it's working and it is spreading rapidly. >> it is spreading rapidly and t is causing resistance with regulators. >> let's talk about the yellow cabs, who is being disrupted by

this innovation? let's talk about the incumbent defending their territory and how that is playing out. >> it is a battle that happens a lot. the industries that -- the new envow vacation want to resist it and they use every enmeans they can. i think another example of this is what happened with voice over i.p. and things like skype. they offer this amazing service and amazing advantage for consumers and at&t and the rest really resisted it. they used other systems to help resist that change. i think a similar dynamic is at work right now. we've got objections that are made against us don't come from the public, they come from

people who have a lot to lose by having innovation happen in the marketplace. > you've been fined what $20,000 -- the regulatory issues cost you half a million dollars fighting this. >> just to recap, the california regulators have sent notices to . fines three of us while there are those fines out there to be honest, what is expensive, we haven't paid the fines. what is exspebsive is engaging with regulators. -- expensive is engaging with regulators. lawyers, that is the expensive part. we're innovators and we're looking for new ways to make the systems better and transform

transportation. we estimate about $500,000 that have gone towards these regulatory engagements. >> what is their beef? you're not regulated? what is the problem? > well, i think -- >> you don't have a license to do what you're doing. >> we had a note saying that we should stop operating because we don't have a license for a don't ory code saying we have a license for another company. we don't have car, we don't have drivers. we are information provider, we provide matching of riders and drivers. so i think there has been a fundamental -- this is a new median and it needs new rules. that viewpoint is one that regulators in the beginning

don't understand. we see the same thing in philadelphia, austin. >> are they trying to make it illegal? in philadelphia they did a sting operation on your company. >> yes, a week before last there was a sting operation -- it wasn't against -- it was against our company but they impounded the vehicles of three drivers, they fined each of them $1,000 -- sorry one of them was fined $2,000. they sent us fines as well. they the , -- austin, sent us a cease and decease and the city council has made it impossible for them to impound vehicles as well. i think what happened in california is we went from an attitude of the regulators to hey, you can't do that we're going to shut you down to, ok, we get it. we need new rules, let's have a

conversation about what this new median is like, what the right rules should be for it, and how do we benefit california through this new capability? that is the approach we want. we want to talk to these folks. we're not saying there is no role for government. we think there needs to be a way to encourage eninnovation. >> your company reached an agreement with regulators and so what was the deal to get them off your back? >> right. we had a number of trust issues in place background checks, rating system, etc. the public utilities commission's number one concern is public safety. i think they're not as focused on the entrenched interest like

the taxi cab, they are interested in protecting consumerss. once we were able to show them what we do we were able to come to ansettlement agreement. >> -- to a settlement agreement. >> but that was not ok with you? fines was to stay the and cease and desist. those conversations, we've agreed to keep confidential so i'm not going into details. i will say, we obviously, have not agreed to what they proposed. we have principle disagreements with what they have so far. we may end up signing it but only after we get an agreement on those principles. >> where is this going? innovation is ahead of policy as

often is the case. there's industries fighting to protect -- susan sha sheen, how is going this going to shake out? where is this going? >> i think we have to work through these policy issues for the entire space. the ride sharing space are hitting it first. i think a lot of questions about liability, new insurance models, no ways of doing pricing, a lost things need to be worked out. >> those are built around ownership. >> access. yeah, they are not based around principles of access. so i think we really need to work across the industry so there's many different players in this beside car sharing and ride sharing. we've got public bikesharing in it, we have new models of ownership being developmented that fits into this space. there's a range that could be

represented and collectively, i think they have a voice. it's difficult when you're an entrepreneurial and trying to . n a business we need a new policy framework and we need a new dialogue. i've seen a lot of promise in regulators wanting to have that dialogue but it is this immediate reaction that i think is really tough and difficult for the small companies. this could stomp out innovation. >> by the time rules get made. >> can i just add? >> sure. >> we're seeing this not just in transportation, we're seeing it with challenges in sharing. it across the board. sharing is not crime. it is good for sorte and we need to figure -- society and we need to figure out a way to encourage

innovation. > hashtag defending sharing? good access on twitter, the hashtag is our hand. >> we should get people to sign our petition. we have people helping us with south by southwest coming up in austin. the timing with austin is really unfortunate. we were planning on providing these shared rides for south by southwest and along came all these actions. we would love support on our petition on change.org. just search it and you will find it. >> i want to reference quickly, a company not up here but relay ride had a person -- quite a tragic case. n m.i.t. student and going her -- googler es leased out her

honda, several people were injured, someone was killed. that looks like it would be exceeded. she could be on the hook financially. this ask a case that no one thought would happen but lending out your car than leasing out your couch. >> i would say this goes back to the public policy issue. he talked about his work to develop peer-to-peer legislation and it would help to protect consumers as well as protect their right to make money off the use of their car. only two other states have adopted that legislation thus far. in that particular state, massachusetts, there was no protective legislation in place. you can see, are these small companies expected to go state by state by state to develop legislation? it is going to be impossible for them to do that. we need to elevate this to a

national dialogue if not a higher dialogue. in the libraryability issues liability address -- issues need to be addressed. is the current insurance model the proper model? probably not. we need to look at insurance vehicles and, you know, do we need new insurance approaches, new insurance products to help promote the service? >> is this market driven? the insurance companies are saying we have different clients and they are protecting different interests so it is hard to see the market doing this. >> god help us if the regulators are in charge of innovation. can you imagine if they ran twit center [laughter] i have nothing against them but their institution is not set up to do that. their job is to protect public

safety, not to encourage innovation. i'm sorry, that is not their charge. there has to be a way to -- the role of public policy, to uphold the role of people is to encourage innovation. the role of our government is to encourage innovation. >> you think insurance companies innovate? >> yes. yes. >> they are going to have to. in insurance, you have the commercial and the personal side and they do not meet. they don't talk the same language sometimes. when you have cars involved with different regulatoryle environments in different states, you have a mess. right now, as typical of any business that has been relatively successful over a long time you're going to get inertia and they are going to do everything they can to protect

themselves. it is not working as far as promoting and helping innovative new ideas get accomplished at a cost that is practical. in the peer-to-peer car sharing model right now, it is a great model but one of the key issues they have is they cannot make any money with the insurance costs at the level they are at. i think she can talk a this. when we penciled it out years ago, we went great idea. is it scaleable? is it going make money? it's not going to make money if insurance companies don't get -- become more innovative and choose to create a new product, quite frankly. >> it took a lot of work for people to take their health insurance different places. that was hard. >> do you think there is going

to be innovation in insurance? there's going of to be large companies that will be more resistant before there's smaller companies that might be more nimble and pencil out the risk. car sharing, you can speak to this. tremendous history of wonderful, safety, good driving records. there's not a lot of accidents in the shared space, with respect to car sharing. i know this for a fact. there's money to be made by the insurance industry by understanding that data, that risk data. >> if you're just joining us e're talk about car sharing. shaheen, is susan sunil paul. before we go to audience questions, i want to talk a how this is going to affect

buildings and cities in the way that we build new spaces to accommodate growth? there's going to be new people in the bay area in the coming years and we if we build parking one to one that has imply cakeses. do you get special parking spaces if you're driving a shared ride? how is the land use going to connect with mobility as a shared service? >> san francisco actually has been somewhat innovative in this air ya. back in 2006, the planning code was changed. now in san francisco, any billing, commercial or residential that is built, is required to have car sharing if they have above a certain amount of units. that kind of legislation is being studied and looked at in other venues as well. we did a pilot test on on

streetcar sharing parking last year with the city of san francisco. is is a very interesting subject because what we're talking about is using the public right away and the public good and making it available to private companies. so it shouldn't be taken lightly. the fact is there are many benefits to allowing shared vehicles of any kind to be parked in areas where we might have equity issues, where car sharing or car ownership is not financially viable. therefore, being able to have on street parking or parking that either subsidized or permitted is going to help expand car sharing and i believe some other models greatly.

in the bay area, parking is the ey aspects that causes costs challenges for almost every model and is difficult to find. >> anyone else? >> i think sharing models have a tremendous opportunity to reduce challenges for cities. it takes so much money, it costs $1 million a mile to build a sidewalk. not the mention a freeway. it is incredibly expensive to build these things in public infrastructure. having shared use, we already have h.o.v. lanes, having shared use through an apartment, through a side car system, having shared use of public infrastructure for parking spaces, through car sharing. all of these things make our public dollars go further than they would otherwise. i think it is fundamental,

special to a money constrained environment that we're living in for the foreseeable future, sharing has to be part of the solution. >> building developers don't like what they see as a government mandate. it messes with their economics. >> there's a lot of developers who buy into this. many developers, at least in the bay area, we're local community buzz many developers get this. they look at sharing as an amenity for their projects. they see it as an opportunity to also build less parking. parking cost $30,000-$40,000 per space. if you can not build those spaces and put in a few other units or even some open space, that makes it a better project. many developers are very supportive of what we're doing. >> we're talking about car sharing and climate one. we would like to invite your

participation. don't be shy and come up here and come to the microphone. who is going to be the first brave soul? if you're on this side i would encourage you to start on that side. our line starts with our producer who will invite you up to invite your question. while that line is forming, let's talk about the jobs impact. how many people -- we talked a little bit about extra income. are these companies significant job creators? let's get a sense of new jobs as well as, sort of part time jobs? how many employees? >> side car has 50 employees around the country but if you ook at the extra income or offsetting of vehicle cost we're closing in on 1,000 people around the country. >> we heard a member members of the car sharing services.

how about jobs? >> our numbers are similar to sidecar's. i think we have 40-45 full-time employees now. hundreds more receiving incremental income because being able to ride share. >> part of the economy. >> i am wondering if local developments have partnered with the car sharing and marketed that as a benefit? >> absolutely. we have several build information san francisco and also in the east bay. there's a local developer named patrick kennedy who -- maybe you have heard of these microunit developments going up. >> super small housing. >> patrick that is been a leader in that space and one of the things he pitched to the city here is i won't build any

parking, we'll use car sharing so we'll have microspaces. >> these are housing that might fit into a parking space. >> true. we don't want people living in the car necessarily but it would be bigger than some those spaces. >> anything to add to that? >> i've been tracking this for a long time and i see developers getting on board with this because they can make better use of the space. >> parking is a selling point. when you go to a condo the owner is like what if there is not a place to park when i come home with my christmas tree or bhaffer. so this is one step further, right? >> in my cities and locally here, you have unbundled parking. so a condo must separate parking and you pay a separate amount for that. if you choose to go car free,

you don't have to pay for that spot or even buy it. at least in urban environments that seems to be more popular with sharing mobility services, whether you can use sidecar lift and gate car immediately or being b a member and share a car for more common needs. you don't need to have a car in the city. >> how about the impact on transit? is this taking people off bus >> this is where model matters and different models of car sharing, ride sharing and peer-to-peer car sharing, we know through studies that when people join city car share, they decrease their drive big 45%. how many miles they drive and they increase their use of walking and biking over 50%.

we've done studies with the san francisco m.t.a. over the years and it shows we're pushing more people on to public transit quite a bit actually. cally last year, we had more ople taking a car across the bay to use a dart station than people using it who lived there. >> dart u.s.n't do go wherever and use a car sharing to get that final mile. >> thanks for a great panel so far. the social car sharing is impressive. we talked about insurance liability. if you look at zipcar stock's performance was underwhelming until it got bought. my question is what can you tell us about how compeling this market is for companies that are

in it financially? if we had this panel 10 years from now are these companies still going to be in here? >> start with your background and i will plan. >> we should -- before you start ride sharing from car sharing, the differences. >> zipcar was about car sharing. >> as far as car sharing is concerned, we're non-profit. we've made money for many years. we take all that money and put it back into the community through a low-income that we call community share. we developped the first wheelchair accessible vans that we've shared. we're going to initiate a local bike program. we own other companies are making money.

not a lot but enough to create some social program that we think are important and to help expand car sharing. ride sharing, a new model here, my opinion, is that people like sunil would not be in it if there was not money to be made somewhere down the line, as well as social good that is produced. -- an le ventures is a investor. the ogle ventures is institutional investor in it. this is my third company i've started and ran and invested in many. the last company was very successful. i made a lot of money already. so i am a capitalist so i expect

to make money on this company and it's a big reason why i did this. i did this -- i'm doing this company not just because i think i can make money but because i think i can make a big difference and i can make history. i believe there is an opportunity to build a big company that fundamentally changes transportation. 10 years from now, we'll look back and say, wow, that -- not just sidecar but other companies in the space ended up transforming the way we think about transportation. in the same way we look back in material days of electric cars. we say wow, ok, amazon, they were not just selling books and ebay, was not just handling collectibles and allowing people to trade collectibles. there's a whole bit of commerce has changed because of those companies. i think we're in a similar

stage. i think the smartphone is going to unlock mobility in a different way, it is not just your mobile phone, it is going to be your mobility phone. >> so you may never buy a car for the young child that grows up and hits 16 like you and i wanted so bad. it may not happen. >> the trend is heading downward. the number of people who get drivers licenses at age -- i think it is under 21. that population has been declining since the 1970's. in part because of of -- for a different reason. in the past, your automobile was your key to freedom. you got the keys and you can go out and do stuff in the world. today, my almost 12-year-old they have freedom already. they can talk to their friends, they don't have to be stuck with their dad all the time because they have a smartphone.

that kind of -- it's already unlook different kind of freedom and mobility. i think when you take it to the point that i need to be able to move around in the city and i do need to look into a job. all of those things will be possibly through their phone. >> would you call up a ride share, sidecar and put those kids and send them somewhere? >> sidecar. they are only 11 and a half but when they are older i would. >> next question. >> you were talking they are saying that we will have self driving cars. >> another reason why i jump in

is because of self driving cars. -- we think that it is a fundamental change to transportation it will occur, that having a network where you can get access to our ride plays very well to self driving cars. >> i would add that many people in the industry are arguing that good platforms for autonomous vehicles are actually these. a selfidea of buying driving car might be a little scary, but going to a city car share, which can be a factor, maybe they'll want to buy because of range anxiety, but that could be a good place to

sort of prime the market for electric vehicles. >> we have the largest program going. currently only have 20 vehicles. i believe we will double it. the first six months that we had our initial 10 vehicles out fully fleet, some are electric vehicles, we had over three house and -- 3000 unique individuals trying those cars. we think that car sharing, we are also putting in charging stations for public use and car share use in locations that will allow us to do that. >> did they go on to become buyers? >> we suspect that we have had some short-term membership that we're looking to try out.

we are happy that way. >> we have found in our research that individuals who have a life change need to move to the suburbs, they have a child or something like that, they often by a vehicle that they were driving and car sharing. >> this whole idea of sharing and variety, it is intrinsic to the whole sharing experience. if you are -- one of the things that is attractive about using someone else's apartment is that you get to connect. it is variety. in it is not the same old holiday in. you get to try different vehicles. you get to meet all of these interesting people. it is part of what makes it fun. it is not just the same old thing every day. wax -- >> i would never buy one,

but i felt: help driving those things around. does this model translate to rural or suburban america? the ford f1 50 is the best- selling truck and america. moving up to the suburbs? >> i believe it will. i think that the stronghold for the systems will be urban areas. just because of patterns and how people are going to be gravitating more and more towards urban living. but i do think that through phenomenon like peer-to-peer car , fractional ownership, the idea that several people: a vehicle, and all this connectivity that is provided, there is really not a reason why these things can't spread to other areas. this is the next great

challenge for the space. can we move this into other location that -- than just these areas. >> did you do research or benchmark on what is happening ?n europe you had to companies one in germany and one in france. did you check why it is so big there? i do not know if he is here. has hadof car sharing limited success. all over year. it is a denser population.

>> they also have institutional governmental support. i'm talking about regulatory and policy support. that helped tremendously in europe. thes a great example of sort of public framework encouraging these kinds of innovation. -- i shouldn't they areumber -- doing millions and millions of riders. they are doing very well. >> that started out of colleges. i saw one today for someone going to greenville from san francisco.

that is something that is really growing. >> that is right. today is our sixth year anniversary of a corporation. it started initially focus on colleges and universities, a critical thing with respect to carpooling, getting a critical mass. a large enough user base. the original model of the company was focused around colleges and universities where you have a dense population of people that are often going to and from the same destination. and we were left with the evolution of that with mobile technology, the ability to do these things in real time, rather than plan a week or so in advance. >> we have to end it there. we have been talking about car sharing and ridesharing.

-- rick hutchinson pied mid the is resigning. the spokesman said chairman john, who has been at the commission since 2006, submitted his resignation letter to president obama on late tuesday. he'll remain at the commissional replacement is nominated and confirmed by the senate. he is tasked with regulating the transmission of electricity, natural gas, and oil across statelines. -- state line. we have congress off for the memorial day recess. we're featuring booktv. three books related to america's military beginning at 8:00 p.m.

eastern. with "educating america's military" former marine writes about the experience in the platoon in "joker one" at 9:30 a panel from the military writer symposium look at the challenges facing veterans returning from a combat. that's all tonight beginning at 8:00 eastern on c-span2. c-span2 will continue to cover various discussions throughout the week from book expo america. live coverage from new york city continues tomorrow with a panel of authors. among them is the author of "radiance of tomorrow." doris goodwin. wally lamb, "we are water" and shell see handler author of a book yet to be titled. live discussion underway tomorrow morning at 8:00 a.m.

eastern on c-span2. public fascination with francis cleveland extends to her clothes. she was a fashion icon. women emulated her hair style, her clothing, -- this is a dress from the second administration, and in a way it's the most prided piece of all. it's the inauguration gown. it was from 1983, it stayed in her family and became the family wedding dress. this was used by her granddaughters. even francis' everyday clothes were stylish. a lot of them look like what you can wear now. a jacket, black with the beautiful purple/blue velvet. it's a more evening appropriate piece. the bodice would have had a

matching skirt. you can see the beautiful lace see -- it would have a matching collar. you can wear it with a shirt waist and skirt. our conversation on francis cleveland is now available on our website, c-span.org/firstlady. tune in monday for first lady caroline harrison. you are watching c span two with politics and public affairs. weeknights watch key public policy events and every weekend the latest non-fiction authors and books on booktv. you can see past program and get our schedule at our website. you can join in the conversation on social media sites.

new york city's police commissioner recently spoke about the -- measure's to protect themselves. here is a look. >> it's called a target-rich environment. we have a lot of iconic targets. we have a lot of events where large numbers of people come together. we are concerned about, certainly, what happened in boston. we've had these types of radicalized young men try to attack us here in the city. most recently, two individuals were arrested in miami. the brothers were scouting out targets in new york city. it happened in -- this year. we had quasi -- arrested for and convicted because he plead guilty for the federal reserve bank. he thought he was detonating

1,000 pounds of ammo. it was an fbi sting. he was convicted in february. so it's sort of a constant stream of individuals trying to come here and kill us. when you say you worry about? we worry about the whole spectrum. we have to worry. we are paid to think the unthinkable. we have to worry about a nuclear event happening in new york. we have work with the federal government. we have a program called securing the cities, and 150 other jurisdictions in the area that we have signed on with to provide a sort of a radiological detection rank around new york city. so we -- we're not able to say we're worried about that. it's a whole array of threats that are out there, and, you know, we don't see any diminishment of the threat. we see it as being constant and

hasn't changed since after 9/11. watch the entire discussion from this year's new york idea festival tonight on c-span. next a look at the complicated relationship between the u.s. and russia and both countries approach's. speaker cnn foreign affairs reporter, and former foreign service officer john browne who served in moscow as well as eastern part of europe. it's hosted by the alpha foip alumni association. it's ninety minutes. >> great to see we have a full room. i think it's a good indicater for a robust discussion tonight on the topic of the rule of soft power in u.s.-russian relations. ting comes out at the timely moment in the u.s. and russia. i guess lightly put dynamic relationship. i'm jason, president of the

alpha alumni fellowship association. it's the first big event as a newly incorporated non-profit in washington, d.c. the association was created around the growing community of alumni of the alpha fellowship program which is a program for mid career americans and britains to live, work, and study in russia, usually. the program has a very interesting background. that's rooted in the private sector, it was found by alpha bank, the largest private bank in russia about a decade ago. next year will be the tenth anniversary. it was founded with the idea to foster -- and policy to create more relationships between the russia and the united states and the united nations as well. there's materials on the fellowship and the association

out in the hall and also we'll have materials out during the reception. a lot of alumni are here today for any questions you might have. but while we're in an alumni-related association. it's not just support the alumni and provide a forum for young professionals such as yourselves with an interest in rush, hopefully. build unique platform on current topics. it bring's us tonight's discussion on the topic of soft power. soft power is not necessarily a new idea, but the concept getting increased attention in recent years. it's not months, weeks or days we we were talking earlier there was a lot of article about soft power. one of the reasons we chose the topic because it touches on a lot of aspect of u.s.-russia

relations. not just foreign policy, trade, business, culture, education, and many others. and it's also concept perhaps we can does tonight can play an important role on both sides and mentality. and generally an increasingly important factor both country's relations with other nations. in fact the notion of -- as russia as adopted the prominent role in russia's new foreign policy concept released this year. but at the same time, there are widely varying interpretations, definitions and significant debate on the topic as we'll get in tonight on the panel. i think the notion of soft power will be a complex but a bit of a soft topic. so tonight we look forward the idea of soft power further with our distinguished panelists. joining us looking at the background of the concept, the role in u.s., and russia foreign policy and impact on the relations between the two countries. so we are very delighted to have

joining us with us tonight some very wonderful speakers who will share their experience and insight on the topic. to my left is dr. john brown. professor of liberal study at georgetown university. he's a member of the public diplomacy council and open world program for the library of congress. he's cited in the media and well known blogger with the daily blog. miss jill dorrty is currently based in the washington, d.c., bureau covering foreign policy international issues. and her award winning journalism work. jill reported for more than fifty countries probably counting on major world events. jill began her career as voice of america. after that u.s. division before

joining cnn and up close eye witness for the changes in the part of the world from the soviet collapse and the russian attack on the white house. jill was later moscow bureau chief for cnn. she covered both presidencies and. >> a so focus on russia, your raysha, and middle east. russian foreign policy and communication and hosts the blog global chaos, which correct me if i'm miscoat, the undiplomatic blog. so thank you very much for joining us tonight. we'll have plenty of time for q & a.

those watching online and via c-span, we'll take questions via twitter. you can direct at alpha alumni. or #soft power. i think we have questions coming in. we'll get to them later. i'll turn over the panel to our experts. starting with you dr. browne. >> thank you very much. it's a pleasure to be here. i'll be brief, and i hope to the point. there is an association between the word public diplomacy and soft power. i would like to do with my -- remarking is to look at the definition and the origin of the two terms. and compare them as best as i can. public diplomacy is defined by the u.s. state department as engaging, inform, and

influencing key international policy. you can find on the web page of the state department. two things stand out about the definition. the first one is that it's addressed, of course, to foreign audiences. not domestic american audiences. and second, that the government u.s. state department is sponsor of the activity public diplomacy . had -- this is a rather traditional definition. today in our new century, the term public diplomacy has expanded to include i would like to stick with the traditional definition which emphasizes, if you will, the government support of public

diplomacy in the effort to ebb ebb engage key international audience. public diplomacy, given we're talking about russian-american relationship and comparing russians in the united states. as an american term. indeed it was coined in the mid 19 60s before the state department definition. it was coinedded in the mid 1960s at the fletcher school of law and diplomacy. thanks to the wonderful article by the distinguished scholar, present today nicholas, who has written an absolute magnificent history of the united states information agency and written excellent article on the whole history of public diplomacy. we are able to see this deaf i

-- definition coined in the mid 1960s that defined the modern meaning of the term public diplomacy. and in 1967, he was reminiscing about his colleagues and him having coined this term. and if you love -- let me read to you what he said. this was in 1967, during cold war days. and at that time, of course, the number of programs informational, educational, cultural, that were supported by the u.s. government during the cold war to influence a foreign audiences had grown to a large extent. and also private organizations were involved in these programs foreign outreach information culture and education. so this is what he wrote. he said, he was trying to find a way to describe all of these activities. he said even beyond the organ of

the government set up to handle information about the united states and to explain our policies, what is important today is the interaction of groups, peoples and culture beyond national borders. influencing the way groups of peoples and other countries think about foreign affairs. react to our policies, and effect the policies of their respective governments. to conote this activity, we at the fletcher school try to find a name i would have liked to call it -- guess what? >> propaganda. [laughter] >> would have given it away! >> i would have liked to call it -- it seemed like the nearest thing in the pure interpretation of the word to what we were doing. propaganda has had a -- connotation in the country. i would be happy to discuss it later. why is it an improper word in the united states.

but propaganda is always had a -- to describe a whole range of communications information and propaganda, we hit upon public diplomacy. now the term is used today by the state department, as i said, to describe its outreach activities overseas. it was coined in the 19 60ss by fletcher school of diplomacy. but arguably, even before the term was coined, public diplomacy as an activity, as an effort to influence foreign publics' decision makers overseas can maybe trace back to the decoration of independence. in fact, walter isaacson, who wrote an excellent biography of ben franklin who is known as the first public diplomat argues in an article that he wrote in july of 2004. that the decoration of

independence, and the effort to persuade, quote, mankind, to support american independence was in fact a public diplomacy document. even though the term was not being used at that time by the founding fathers. okay. let's now turn to a soft power. soft power, as we all know, was coined by the harvard scholar, joseph nigh. in the early '90s. in that period during the clinton administration, he was a state department official. the cold war was coming to an end by that time, and i think nye was aware a new period in history was coming along with other thinkers, huntington, and he was trying to find what would be the nature of power in this new post cold war period. and he came up with the idea

that military power in in new period -- in fact during the cold war, was not the sole determinant of foreign affairs and influence in foreign affairs. he underscored that other factors who are play, both, if you will, in the quote, defeat of the soviet union as a way for entities, countries, nations, and nongovernmental organizations to have an influence on people. so he came up with a word soft power. he said he defines power in a nice q & a article that appeared in 1996, i believe. he says, power is the ability to alter the behavior of others to get what you want. there are basically three ways to do that. coerce, sticks, payments,

carrots, and attraction. soft power. so soft power is the power of attraction. he says a country's soft power can come from three resources, culture, in places where it is attractive to others: political values when it lives up to them ahome and abroad; and foreign policies. when they are seen as legitimate and having moral authority. in this q & a, he includes public diplomacy as a form of soft power. as a way, if you will, by the government to influence foreign publics. so let me close my remarks by comparing these two terms public diplomacy and soft power that are so frequently used today. and interestingly enough both terms have been become global even though they were coined by

americans. when you read actually probably more about soft power in the chinese press today than you do in the american. i think a main difference is that soft power -- one reads nye. it's not clear what he's saying always. it's not necessarily a government-sponsored activity. it's the power of attraction that a country has because of the values, policy, and culture. but it's not a government directed activity. if we were to think of concentric circle, we would have the big circle of soft power and one of the small circles one soft power would be public diplomacy. i think that's the main difference. the main similarity is that both public diplomacy and soft power are used to persuade others by means that are not cohearsive. in other words you don't hit

people over the hid or kill them in order to have them on your side. i think this is the main similarity. the similarity, of course, suggests that both activities are rather, quote, sell fish, because they are carried out where they happen actually for the benefit of the sponsor of the activities. be it the spontaneous attraction that soft power depends on. but ultimately the beneficiary of the powers are those who have the power and are trying to persuade others. it's not necessarily humanitarian or al true i i guess -- altruistic. thank you. >> a mental venn diagram of soft power and propaganda. >> talk about propaganda. especially inpropaganda. [laughter] wealth get to that.

>> thank you very much. i think that provides a great segue to go to the global scope of soft power with you, jill. >> thank you very much. i have to say, i'm very grateful to john, when i leapt in there where the word propaganda, it was actually a response to a course that i took at georgetown from john in which he talks specifically about propaganda. so i was kinds of prime for that. it is something, you know, that does have a pa jourtive connotation. in other countries it has less pa it is a technical term. but a very quick preface. the reason i'm here, was invited here, is because i'm in the throws of -- throes of writing on vad