translated into spanish. now there is really important and strong points about that. in ethiopia, for example, a group of faculty members was there. we were helping them develop a curriculum. ..o hours.

>> first of all, president schneider, president todd, dr. wong, guests, students, thank you for coming to colby. i think this is going to be a very worthwhile afternoon. anybody have a cell phone? please turn it off. or at least get the rare volume off so it does not interrupt the proceedings. way back in 1951, even before i was born, new york giants center fielder willie mays was the national league rookie of the year. the following season he wore a different uniform. like many others of his generation from all walks of life he had been inducted into the u.s. army. among those children the same year as willie mays was another american of some repute, pfc edward m. kennedy of

massachusetts. later on with several gold records behind an elvis presley also took his turn to serve. there was a time when virtually all men who could serve in the armed forces of the united states did. those who didn't were more people than envied. draftees' route in two years. recruits stay at least for, but got a better deal. they got a choice of duty and training. most veterans are proud of their service. a great many of them regarded as an important and formulated part of their growing up. things changed, however, 1973 with the coming of the all volunteer military that ended the u.s. draft. also brought to close what had been a major rite of passage, celebrities and the sons of the rich and famous shared with the rest of us. after 1973, men reaching the age of 18 were no longer push toward military service by the draft or by cultural norms. the volunteer force set up a

major shift in the demographics of america. three-quarters, 80 percent if you count age 85, of american men over the age of 80 our veterans. by contrast, less than one-tenth of those under age 30 are veterans. veterans are a diminishing minority. for the most part, like jim people know about military service effort from their fathers, grandfathers, seen in the movies or picked up second-hand. only about 13 percent of americans are veterans. the military still ranks high in public opinion, but this could change. lack of wartime success could bring back contempt for military values, seconded during vietnam. news coverage of the military usually focuses on scandals, losses, waste, mistakes. most of the entertainment industry traditionally depicts

the military as buffoonish, bumbling, corrupt or informed. when people do have personal experience on which to base their judgments, images delivered by the news and the entertainment industry dominates or may become as we might say this year, lack of images produced by the military in the entertainment industry might dominates. does not follow that all that could understand the military have to have served in the military, but those who have served in the military can lend their voice. today on this panel we have several of those voices. all men who have served in the military. i'm going to introduce them from the center out. dr. james wright, some of the world war two veteran who joined the marines and a 17 answer for three years, primarily with the first marine brigade in japan. he earned a ph.d. from the

university of wisconsin madison, a chemistry professor at dartmouth college in 1969, and served as dartmouth president from 1998-2009. since 2005, dr. wright began a series of visits to u.s. military medical facilities where he met marines and other u.s. military personnel who had been wounded in the course of service in iraq in afghanistan. in over two dozen visits, says than the often encourages the injured servicemen and women to continue their education, and he subsequently joined in establishing and assumed responsibility for raising funds to support educational counseling program for one the u.s. veterans. severely injured military veterans. it is now being offered to the american council on education. the president worked with senators jim webb, john warner, and check payable on language for the gi bill those passed by congress and signed by president bush in june 2008.

his interest was to provide a means for private institutions to partner with veterans affairs in supporting veterans who matriculated at these institutions. this is known as the yellow ribbon program. dr. wright's book, among one of the reasons he is here at the colby military writers' symposium, those who have borne the battle, a history of america's wars of those is bought them was released in april 2012. he provides a historical overviews on american use of words and those of us fought them from the american revolution to current wars and share some of his own experiences and insights. please welcome dr. price. [applause] >> dr. david mcintyre, colonel mcintyre, is a distinguished visiting fellow at the homeland

security studies and analysis institute in washington d.c. and at the bipartisan w in the terrorism research center in washington d.c. as well as a director of homeland security and defense programs at the national red was cool. he presently serves on the editorial board of the journal of common security education and writes a regular column for inside homeland security. dr. mcintyre was appointed the national security education board by president bush into designate. previously served on the national board of directors at the national members alliance, a public-private partnership with the fbi. as academic adviser to the university and college committee at the international association of emergency managers, steering committee of the homeland security defense education consortium and the 2002-two dozen three defense science board summer study and, and security. he has taught homeland security at the elliott school of george weston university, the lbj school of the university of

texas, and the bush school at texas a&m and also directed the integrated center from insecurity at texas a&m for four years. he has numerous press credentials and interviews with every major network in the united states, and numerous radio stations and including last night was doing a cellphone radio interview with a station in texas. prior to this he served a 30-year career in the united states army would do these alternating between airborne and reconnaissance units and writing and teaching strategy. he taught the english department at west point and retired as the dean of the faculty in academics and then as it -- academic or college in 2001. he was 19 when i was a student there. dr. mcintyre's book -- yakima he did a good job. thank you. [laughter] dr. mcintyre's book, rollicking good read, a center line, which depicts the story of a u.s. air

force medevac c-130 transport and the lives of its crew, the medical personnel who support the transportation of wounded veterans, bringing them home in time for christmas, and it is a related story. i enjoyed it immensely. yields a b.s. in engineering from the net six military academy at west point, in m.a. in literature from auburn and a ph.d. in political science from the university of maryland. please welcome dr. mcintyre. [applause] first lieutenant directly to my left brew up in seaside, ore. think he is back in the great northwest now. he was a high-school football player and a student body president at seaside high school, class of 1963 were is father was principled. he won a national merit scholarship at yale university. member of jonathan edwards

college. he played wing forward for yale's rugby team, of rhodes scholar at the university college in oxford, and it was from university college in oxford that he was called to active duty as an infantry officer in the united states marine corps. after his military service returned to oxford and earned a master's degree. he made his living as a national business consultant in the coming month in singapore, and france. he is the author of a novel of the vietnam war, a top-10 best seller published in 2010. sebastian's youngbear declared mater or more of the most profound and devastating novels ever to come out of vietnam. received a 2011 washington but stay book award in the fiction category based upon his combat experience as an infantry officer in the vietnam war and as a marine corps second and first lieutenant. his personal decorations include the navy cross, the bronze star, two navy commendation medals for

valor, two purple hearts, and ten air medals. after his combat tour in vietnam he served another year of active duty at headquarters marine corps and writes about both his service and his post service and his latest book, what it is like to go war. he was recently interviewed by a build more year in connection with promotion of this book in 2012. please welcome him. [applause] last but not least, at the far end of the panel, colonel john coffin from the national guard of vermont, retired. in his army career he served as a signal platoon leader and immobile consultant across south vietnam from 19 -- southeast asia from 1916 to 1970 and joined the vermont national

guard in 1973. during his lengthy career he served a wider range of positions from the vermont medical platoon to the honor of commanding the singularly leaked , three of the 1,702nd mounted infantry battalion in the early 1990's. for the last 19 years he served in the capacity of the vermont guard staff psychologist. based upon his longtime service as a civilian counseling staff psychologist for both fire service and police officers at the -- it escapes me, the name of the organization. >> the power center. >> that our center in burlington. colonel kaufman was appointed the vermont guard staff psychologist. he would debrief returning soldiers at the books in unit as well as brief soldiers that were getting ready to go on the vermont guard deployments to iraq and afghanistan. he and his critical incident team debriefed nearly every vermont soldier returning from

overseas, including troops deployed with other reserve units and state soldiers. in addition, for the better part of a lasting years he consulted with soldiers prior to departure to iraq in afghanistan can often for repeated taurus. the team was constantly deployed to one of 12 different army deportation locations around the kutcher providing 106 small level unit if debriefings during the weeklong vacation process. six months ago he retired 49 years of army service as which time he was awarded merit and distinguished service. welcome. [applause] this year's theme for the colby military writer symposium is coming home, and it talks about the hopes, fears, dreams, and ambitions, i hope, of returning veterans. and the dwindling number of returning veterans, not dwindling numbers of veterans,

but the defendant -- bundling numbers of veterans and the population. you previously stated that the greater transformation in the united states as far as the military concern followed world war ii in the way we mobilize war, five work and honor those who served. you say this has changed drastically. because of unclear and changing military objectives you think it is harder for a civilian to stand behind this situation. because our forces have become less representative of american society as a whole, few citizens join in the sacrifices that were fair demands. this support systems seem less and less capable of handling these demands. how do we deal with this? how the we fix it? and the think it is a problem? >> well, that is the question of today and a question really of our time. those of us took care of veterans. we need to fix it. need to address it.

world war two was a clear war with the objectives defined and accepted by the entire population. there was a full mobilization and everyone shared in the sacrifice of world war ii, about 12 percent of the population served in uniform during the war. the war since then, korea, vietnam, and certainly the wars in iraq in afghanistan have been less clearly defined. there has been a full mobilization. we have been reluctant to have sacrifice is for most americans, and increasingly now we have depended upon an all-volunteer force. they are not representative of us. had we fix it? we have to give our political system to recognize when it talks about sending troops into war that there are going to be casualties and in our political system to recognize that these casualties deserve full care from this country for as long as it takes to deal with the issues that they bring back with them, either physical or emotional issues that they bring back with them. we need to know who these people are who are serving in our wars.

wars with undefined purposes fought by people who are unknown to most of us are very dangerous things. a democracy cannot wage war in this way. >> do you think the relative lack of press coverage in the current war or current military operations in afghanistan is an issue? i think he wrote about this a few weeks ago. >> estimate is an issue. there is nothing dramatic to cover most of the time. is guys going out on patrol. maybe some kid from iowa losing his leg in and high edie's motion. there is now engaged with the enemy. there is no pill taken and flag planted to say, we have had a victory today. so the media simply do not coverage, and most of us do not know if. there's too much of a sense of this war being fought by drones in some place that we don't know. it is still being fought by young men and women with its underground, and they are dealing with multiple the bonds, and we have to understand better what it is apparent during.

>> you know, you commented in your books about returning from vietnam to a nation that certainly opposed the war, but visibly oppose it. what you think we see that visible opposition today or if our mission is not any more clear than it was in vietnam? >> well, i think the first obvious answer is there is no draft. there wasn't all lot of protesting as long as that to s deferment was in place. as soon as the college deferment was taken away and the leads could start getting drafted or, you know, students are going around saying, my god, they're going to get me, i'd like this work. i mean, it is -- it is very important, as dr. wright says, that the entire nation realizes that it has chosen to go to war. somehow we get the idea in this country, we sort of -- we are faced with sort of indifference now, almost at the. they are a war. that is the army is a workable

we're not. you pays the taxes? to build the factories that build the bombs? who teaches the kids that go off to the military are the scientists that develop the weapons? we talk about how veterans sometimes feel isolated when they come back, and i think that what has happened, as a result of the all volunteer military is that the country itself, and cautiously does not really feel like it is involved. we borrowed the money from the chinese, basically, to fight the war. taxes did not go up. so there is not in it -- even in the neutral sacrifice, and the more important thing that i think is something that we need to take on more. if you have the attitude that you are not really engaged in it as a civilian, at the end of this long chain of factories and financing and taxes, at the end of that long chain you have a 19 year-old who pulls the trigger.

that 19 year old is just the in the long chain that we are all part of. somehow we have the idea that that 19-year-old is the one that went to war and pulled the trigger. he did the killing and he did the suffering, and we have some compassion for that, when he goes back home, if we come as a nation, and consciously -- unconsciously think there isn't going to be isolation -- how is he going to feel? in the old days he came back to the tribe, everybody suffers. civil war, all the way back to the revolutionary war, women had to go farming. they suffered when the men were gone. it does not happen anymore. i think that goes right back to the point, which i think that we have to reexamine the of volunteer military. >> dr. mcintyre, you touched on some of the families back home, but the wounded warriors as well as the folks that work in a

position to support them, particularly captain mike middleton and his family situation back home. could you describe when you get some of these ideas and what you used as your biographical sketches for your fictional novel? >> sure. of these samples ledger run of his knowledge or from people that i know and recruited to do interviews with me. so air crews, interviews from people i knew or specifically from my youngest son who is an air force pilot. in fact, deployed today to afghanistan on his 13th trip overseas since this war started in 2002 in air force special operations. their families to the medical people commoners is that i knew or nurses that i may as contacts to get interviews with me, chief of the emergency room in kuwait, a flight nurse who had 500 combat hours calling wounded, the family members are either my own family members to my wife was in bed and merrill marauder,

military child who married the guy in the military, become military wife, and then sent two sons off to war and became a military mother. my daughters in long, a sister who said nephew's off. this is really about, when you talk about four groups, pilots and air crews, the family members, the wounded. the medical teams, these were people drawn from my own experience. the question you're addressing about the isolation, whether they're cut off for the rest of the net states and that is drawn from my own experience as well. if i could, let me just take 30 seconds, national strategy and homeland security strategy is mostly what i do, not writing novels. let me follow up on the last two questions if i could for just about 30 seconds. one thing has not been mentioned is not the sole cause or a shoot. please don't get me wrong, but it is an important issue to understand. there is a fundamental divide in this nation over what the future

of the nation should be. and at the top, there is republican or democrat, for the eight years of the bush administration, now going on five years of the obama administration, there has been a feeling among the political elite, among the political science elite, among the decision making elite that the united states must be engaged slowly. the way we defend ourselves is either with military overseas are with and those overseas, but we must be engaged globally. the problem is, the american public is not willing to pay for that. we have done it on borrowed money or profession -- borrowed money to hire soldiers to go into that. so there is a fundamental disconnect my strategic disconnect. but that leads to is the military and political elite in the country doing things without open access of the public. i don't know whether you have noticed and not, but there has not been an american casualties in the news for several years

now. every time a person is killed in afghanistan @booktv by the way, one did are no longer reported. every time a person is killed it is reported as a nato casualty. you have to read part and in the article to find out what country they're from. yes up reporting them as american casualties. we don't have an american helicopter go down anymore. it's a naval helicopter. that's not the press' fault. the military has made the decision to do that. this is not just a political decision. is leading from mine the curtain. it is not his leading from beyond the people. it is what we're doing and where we are engaging, obscuring in many ways from the american public who don't see the price or feel the price of the american engagement. really that there is a fundamental problem i suggest it is in this army in this audience and in your homes. the question is, to you want to be? if you want to have a global footprint, you have to pay for the global footprint. if you're not willing to pay for

it, you have to accept the fact that you, and other people do what the hell they want to. you cannot have both things. that is a strategic impossibility. and that is the position that we put our families and our military in. they're paying for our attempt to accomplish a -- accomplishes. ♪ impossibility. >> you get to speak to a lot of vermont guardsmen both before they went to war and after they came home. would like to keep it is before they went to war for while because you tell me what you told them, and i would like to read get a view of weather that was the right thing to be told before going off to fight in combat. >> thank you. i am a flag by a three extremely influential, powerful, and well read and well-written and who i hope can assist everybody in this room to a squeeze our government to provide everything from vocational help to psychological help our soldiers.

and i would like to join them in that in my humble capacity. i just got out of the bag after 49 years. all i know about is what i have heard. i have read, i have thought. really what i know is what is in the hearts and minds of our soldiers. in general jonathan has overheard a number -- was also with him last night reflecting on a pile of newspapers he had in his office in the first couple of months of the war. and he plopped the day's paper down and said, somebody really ought to write about this. and following a discussion we had, we agreed that it was not going to be one of us. i had not yet like my brothers and the stage here picked up a pen, and i don't know, actually, if i am going to war will be able to. i am putting -- pretty raw from

many of the stories i've heard. but what we talked about, there were many vietnam veterans in the guard at that time to in years ago, 12 years ago. the thing that to bring the most lovely in my heart was nothing happened to us. when we come back to my had a double album given to me when i was discharged. i was in a bar. he has a better story about being discharge of f-15 mess. essentially i got down on my knees and said, we have to go on after these guys. we don't know what we're doing. we don't know what will help.

we have to go out there and try to talk to them from our hearts and souls. we are behind them no matter what they find themselves into over there. on never be able to live with this or myself. we practically had carte blanche going out to units in talking to them about what they feared that they might face because we are in uniform. conversations going. been around a long time. i have been around so long that i know grandfathers, fathers, soldiers, sons, and sons of soldiers. so i fell into this honeypot of opportunity to be able to talk to people who knew me as an old man that might not read them out as far as how they really felt. ..

i have no idea how he got out the money, but we were on the road possibly to talking to people and will be told them before they left as if you could honestly, were still alive.

we will be hereafter studied by your contractor with possible. and learning how to pray from the redemption of matter what you face. i don't think i've missed many downs they are sinners and i hope to tell you later that how we get a briefing. service of process and that we would stay with these folks while we were there. all i can say is did we do anything right quite some noble psychology professors have had a chance to visit with you at the last couple days have passed what do you think were passed? we don't know. we never did anything like this before and we probably never will again. we did everything we planned to do and is not experimentally log.

we would go on car rides and we demand the 90 and the administration as our medical surgeon. we've carried that through them were pleased with that. did we do any good? i'm praying we did. >> or a commie writing your hook stuck to a couple lessons you wish you would have been told. >> a can, it is our culture. we like to shuffle things under the rug that we really got to stare in the face. several things i wish i understood before i went in before i came back, my fantasy

resending in that case were today our kids have to do send me all their life they should do. and as you deyo christian culture. thou shalt not kill a human being. that's over asking if the air force academy and i was talking to a woman generally in charge of their curriculum and they said we don't talk about killing people. we'd all like to talk about that.i. wish i'd been a little mirth again before i went, even before i joined the marine court. those kinds if kids don't tend to think about stuff like that. we have to take it on ourselves as adults to make them aware of it.

they're not going to do about there a. it's not like you have an answer, but at least you have a trademark that you're not going crazy, that should not evo, that should not send payment animal. all of these doubts the closer we got him because he toured darkside on other people. one of the more important things is the mechanism of how you do kill somebody and that's what i call a pseudo-speciation in the book is a fancy term for turning somebody into the animal. you can't dehumanize people. that's terrible. the fact of the matter is the only way you will kill somebody is dehumanize them. were asking them to be sophisticated enough to kill an

animal in the cause of all kinds of names. , hotkeys, kooks. we are greater that. if he doesn't understand what the mechanism is, it's hard to get out with it. you still think they're in the polls. they were killing animals as far as psychology was concerned and if they been told ahead of time you get into this come you get out of it assesses you can peer the tenants are usually 20 to come out but older than people tear the thing would have a better chance of seeing what's going on. i got myself involved in stuff for a win into a no quarter fate because i was angry. would've taken the without doing none, but i didn't have the where with all terms of framework to think about it. so that's a big thing. the second thing is education

about what happens to your brain after you come back. we all know combat as casualties occur in the infantry, early in a two or because the brain has been adapted. the brain starts to switch the circuitry. it's not psychological. it's physiological. your assigned as a civilian and wonder what it is because the price is going through cerebral cortex. by the time you've done all that and combat, your dad. what happens you rewire the circuitry. there's no more thought. you hear the sound and you shoot it. that's ptsd. i pumped my head on a cupboard in the kitchen one day and i turned around and took it out of my face. there's my kids and wife. what is going on with dad?

crockery ensued cans all over the kitchen floor and my hands are lucky. we have made clear. we'd never heard of ptsd. they were frightened. my wife was wondering if it's her fault. with a little bit of education would've gotten his got posttraumatic stress because he's in the war and not angry at us and got surprised and check out the cupboard because he wasn't thinking clearly better get him some help in madison and it's not our fault. i still do it. i've still got it. the other day my daughter put the chain lock on the door and i open the door and it surprised me. i hit the door couple times. this forehand. my wife said didn't take your meds today, did you? but that's because we are educated now. we understand what the mechanism is. this is just part of having gone to war the part you come back

with. if you don't know about it from a whole lot of families have no education whatsoever on it in their suffering. you've got a wife in a corner because her husband is going loony. she didn't know what it was her what's going on. what happens to your brain over there and when you come back and getting an idea that it's actually kind of normal reaction to the extremes of combat. this is what you relink aged in. this is about killing people. >> host: dr. ray come here and historian. has this always been going on? >> it's always been like this. palmer had some good in that it into all of this.

i agree so much with coral. in my book they are still much we teach our children from the time they're able to be taught anything. one is to not put themselves at risk to avoid danger in the second is not to harm others. we take 19 eurocentric it both of these things. you have to do it not simply to harm the great legal harm to other people and do it quickly without thinking and after a couple years we stayed now you're through. you can go home and forget about all of these things. they do control the behavior despite the stories, they do control the behavior, but they never forget. one simply cannot forget. >> anything to add? >> now, except i really like to point you made about this is a

natural response. part of my research i talked to an air force psychiatrist that of scott air force base and she suggested she's working with the team tried to change the term from pts d., posttraumatic stress disorder to posttraumatic stress syndrome, suggesting this is not sent me your broken, have a row can link and have to park at the handicap facility. second it's a natural response to body has to an extreme situation in your body will heal itself if you give it a chance in a hand. i had the same suggestion from the nurses i worked with to include one who's doing her phd work in the chicago secondary casualties and what she's researching is the medical personnel to become psychological casualties based on what they see and what they

do. this suggestion is they can become casualties in the casualties they work with if you talk to her properly and prepare them properly. she liked the framework we use in dealing with homeland security where your preparedness and response and you can mitigate, prepare and protect and you can rapidly respond and then you can recover. and the lot turned, try to give long-term care that she's taking a trademark and the next step is to understand over talking about with soldiers with medical people. if you spend 30 years cutting car seats out of the back rolled over events that eventually it doesn't have to get to you in a way that breaks your brain and causes you to become an

alcoholic if you've been prepared and then if we respond properly after it takes place. i'm hopeful. military medicines have made huge strides as a result of bringing people home wounded. >> so colonel coffin, you work with forces for some number of years. do they have any training programs to prepare these first responders? panic truth is they've done better than we have, but we've learned the last 10 years. our people will be exposed to the most devastating explosion of their vision, ideal and fantasies of what god and country, nation, chain of command and legitimacy --

legitimacy of task will be. the question is how would they handle that in turn only? what we're working with people now doing is trying to sell to our soldiers the idea of you need to know who you are. i'd like to see every soldier can attend sessions of psychotherapy before they go over. and if they don't, as many of you know we have met, we well expect you to attend sessions after you come back. get with a center attack to somebody about readjustment counseling. i like that way. that's not that scary a word. you can get some readjustment counseling.

for not tacking on a psychoanalytic therapy. we're talking about readjustment counseling because just because you've been exposed to the total denigration of your ideals does not mean you need to go around a broken vietnam vets come in and resentful about everything. you've got to get yourself together knowing who you are. each one of the folks in the audience is different. bottom-line compromise situation with leadership that's questionable. we've got to disobey a command to save your platoon. each one of you will come to a different place on that and arrive at a different conclusion in a different way. even if those situations are going to end up in death and destruction, it's got to be the way you can live with the best. even as the individual.

you've got to come away with your internal truth contact them to believe that can be done. we're just starting to wake up to that. i want to talk about my bow tie here first of all. one of the things karl and i were talking about the other day as ritual as mostly i am a white protestant boy from boston. we don't have any rituals. you make a church in sunday or something, but somebody talk to me by rituals early in my guard career and i had a hero who had his lake house blown off and he went to a vet center after living in a cabin for four years and started talking to some of the period he was also an alcoholic. back i sent him to 12 step

recovery in some deep spiritual selves within himself, higher power, got sober, worked for 35 years, wore a bowtie every day and a smile and a believe that people can redeem themselves. you know i am wearing this bowtie, great? because i'll look at myself every morning and go you can do this because all buckley did it. he's a korean war veteran and i'm a vietnam veteran. you will find your ritual. you may be dancing around a campfire in the new by yourself and some of you have told me i'm not at that last year. whatever it takes to get in touch with who you are. get the herd mentality. get yourself right and the know-how something to offer the

rest of us. you're the hope of the future. we are done. were just talking about what we've heard. we have a behind deal. thank you. >> you speak in your knowledge about this transcendence that may or may not be spiritual. i notice you bounced around inside his spiritual philosophies and trying to describe it. but talk a little bit about how you think to be prepared to go to combat you have to have some understanding of a higher power or higher order of the world. >> first of all is everything before, be honest about what you're being asked to do. you're been asked to do two things. sacrifice your own life for the good of others. the christian religion is about a god that sacrifices his own

life for the good of others. taking of life is also some thing that should be relegated to the gods. i don't care what your religion is. i used to sense god is higher power and something immense should have to be involved with the weak u.s. can't give it to be with it. willy-nilly you are involved in a spiritual issue even though it's horrible. her coulter is wonderful. what religion to be pixie dust. we like christmas. we don't like good friday. it's just the way we are built. if you look at world religion they have a lot of dark sides. the iroquois and aztecs had ritual torture and if you think about crucifixion, that's ritual torture, is it not quite if you think about the demons of tibetan buddhism has this dark,

dark side to this spiritual reality. the beginning it's just that, you begin to understand they might be entering the dark side of something which is in fact rules we generally suspect the cause would do but now are asking ordinary young humans to do. the other thing i thought about is whether or not it is a spiritual experience, it is sort as intense as the spiritual experience and that is combat. i suspect it may be the dark side of the same coin. i can tell you here how similar it is if you think about the mistakes of many world religions, therefore things in common. they are always aware of their own death. those of you who are children of the 60s remember carl castanon

of, always over your shoulder. in combat, and death is always over your shoulder in the next thing the mistakes are always focused on is the moment. only right now it's real in the gears of psychophysical exercises. to get into a place where they can instill their minds and be in the moment. i guarantee you if you are in combat, you're in the moment. that death is over your soldier in the other things these mystics have in common is they try to subsume their egos for greater goods and you're in a unit in one of the things that makes me so proud be part of the military experience as i have experienced situations where people clearly will die for everybody else.

that is really a rare thing, but that is what you're doing to combat in the final thing you saw these mystics are parts of larger groups. churches, christians. so here we have the similarities between ordinary spiritual experiences in combat are striking and we have to accept it. i'm not going to say that comments are spiritual experience. it was for me, but for some people as intense. either way if you go to st. john of the cross and have them come back down and cook burgers at mcdonald's, he's going have a problem. he's not going to fit in very well and that's what raskin area people to do. >> speaking of that, what did she say the first time he went to see what it veterans at the

hospital? >> yeah, i went for a solid battle of falluja in november 2004 in the following year in 2005 and up and down their two -- i was stunned by what i saw. obviously the people are hospitalized at places like walter reid this has got her searcy wounded. they are missing limbs, they have said if acanthus figuration if there were injuries, are usually time it broke and not. i was struck at them and them and i was struck in talking to them. i was asked what happened to them and they tell me how this occurred. i'm always struck them saying i want to get back to my unit. my initial thought is these guys are so caught up in what

president bush or cheney or rumsfeld are saying is that the purpose of the war in iraq or afghanistan that they want to carry the flag again, but it's farmer a sick than that. they want to be with their unit. they want to be with their friends, their buddies and when they hear about a friend that's killed, i have a dear young marine who was shot in falluja, most noble ones. he learned one of the guys in his platoon had been killed on thanksgiving day in 2004. i have been a notice he said i should've been there to help him. i do think this instinct to reach out and help being part of a unit, which carl did not experience a bit numb this so called an aggregator via handshake of more people coming in and out.

but it was struck sometimes they told stories about what happened and i feel like they're in the hallway. but that's not productive for them. i've never heard anyone complain. i've never had a single person say it's not my fault. this war is was i doing there? i can't believe there's times that night they don't feel sorry for themselves. but it's really remarkable generation of young people. >> what dr. wright is talking about is a natural instinct of those people born to become warriors and that is they will naturally protect. that's what they do. they protect. it's a natural instinct to do something for your friends, to help your friends. i thought baisden uncles and cousins were world war ii

veterans. they're fighting for democracy. are you kidding me? all they want to do was get the job done, get home alive with all the things they could. it never changes. caress the billions we have to be extremely careful because what we have here is a precious gift from nature, which is you have young people who will sacrifice body, lynn and life because they want to help and be part of the group into all of that. it's a natural urge and they'll do it, but were the ones who have to use it wisely and put them in the right place. so this idea of doing it for patriotism you can say that. i know for me and my father and uncles and push came to shove, when it was down to the real dark and dirty in combat, we weren't thinking about anything like that. so the adults have to say let's use this gift wisely or public

and let's not waste it. i think we've lost sight of that. >> detained as a chance we are wasting an because we are campaigning to the less risky military endeavors on our part furry conflict just as much death and description on the air me. >> it goes back to the issue about what are we doing in the world. he didn't use the word empire. are we sacrificing ourselves to protect our people are we sacrificing ourselves to put forward some political agenda or some geopolitical agenda. it's a very critical issue for any young person and it's not just the question is can the american people afford to be in the entire, do we want to be an empire and we want our kids dying for something were not sure it's protect the not because the natural instinct is

to protect, not to do some real politics and that's a fundamental question this nation hasn't sold yet and we need to. >> dr. mcintyre come you had a line in your book concerning the wounded. everybody who goes to work in chad. some in the body, someone that had come as some in the higher. what do you mean by that? >> that is talking to people with my experience of 30 years in the military. i was fortunate or unfortunate depending what you think. i was the first class at west point not to go to the vietnam war. the year before istook only volunteers. two years ahead of me they took everybody. in 1970 only volunteers. in march they return to

volunteers as for vietnam. president nixon had established victimization. as the first class not to go to vietnam. i left the service 30 years later. after 30 years and 29 days, two weeks into months before 9/11. so i fell right in the middle. not that we didn't do anything for 30 years. we work 20 hours a day, for his death amid casualty. i would refer not to talk about those. but we had a kid killed by a tree limb. i had troops are now rare. we had guys this dirty cheap because of his waist deep snow and five degrees below zero net carbon monoxide poisoning. it was a dangerous world here to listen as if there was no fighting. has just said i wasn't an area so what then did i discover a

bad experience and experience of my sons who did go, my nephew stated to the people i interviewed who did go and what i got played back against me carry her with this idea that everybody goes who's going to and i had a person come to me and send them to show you the page of the paragraph where i decided to get counseling and that sentence right there at this female soldier said a close vote and that that's what's wrong with you. i've been shot in a. i just know it. i'm not crazy, but something is wrong in my heart because i can't get it right. i can't get back to the centerline of my life. karl has mentioned a very good point about people searching for utility anything you've addressed it and i would suggest one of the things that eventually we will find is a cure for this is helping people

find utility for their lives. also just out of frustration about what it is we want to do any unhappiness about a variety of missions in washington d.c. and displeasure of gridlock in congress might resolve the generation from now as people who have been overcome and pay the price, come back, can't find the world changing job and suddenly discover rising to leadership positions in their own communities and states and nations may be just what the doctor ordered. out of this darkness people bring home may be a great way for the nation and our future. >> thank you, kernel. this is excellent. thank you. that's a great line. because no one comes back the same. not one person i've ever known has come back the same. not one.

we used out this term they threw around as a quick anecdote: the normal. is that a true statement? tim o'bryan's definition of how to tell a true war story includes if it's believable it's not true. new normal is not true. you're not going to be normal again. you're not going to be normal living for their life. he was a warrior are going to think there's something wrong. what was the utc is he referring not to sit here so, i have been through compromise, horrible choices that have caused me to

think i could've done better. now the survival go category. my favorite story about survivor guilt is the former chief of the vets and their was severely wounded. the kid next to him lost three limbs in the kid next to describe one night. he finally gets up his courage to ask why he's crying and the kid says the kid next to them is okay. i don't know if you can make it. what are you worried josie for? jones they lost all four in one. so this guy with three limbs gone, we've been in the night. now the conclusions that is the

only ones who don't feel survivor guilt are the dead ones. it's a little roughness language en masse, but that's not far from the truth. having said that his club and sold for a second here. the iphone society concerns me. when's the last time you had a conversation with somebody going yeah, yeah. i think we need to put our arms around each other. when the military military know that. now they are hugging. even people who don't want to hug, maybe pete will at this table to hug, but we've all heard. i learned how to hug from janet thomases spent 18 summers in the

woods at the first battalion armor in vermont by yourself with the mariners and she's been known as lieutenant bob. she became colonel imam and she hugged people and nobody had the guts to tell her we shouldn't be doing this. she was going to hug somebody whether somebody through a router not and it's very much not sexualized. it is very deep on a soul level. one of the great inspirations revealed to me and i can't take any credit was suddenly decided to do our debriefings coming suggestion was when we meet troops at the platoon levels and talk to them, we usually have a couple of peers, real soldiers that have been there, who are coming down with us to create me

and maybe a chap or something with the platoon of ideally 40 people. said the debate was even among the women, we send them in town to decrease these mostly men and the answer is definitely guys don't open up around women. however, we have a discussion about this. i looked over at janet and janet said i'll go and it just came to me and said we are going to bring the nurses. what a critical moment that was because we brought the great mother with is down there. for nurses down there. these are not miss america beauty is there something. 65-year-old nurses emanating right and love and after the

debriefing to ask if they want to go to lunch or something like isotopic things like no, sir, appreciated. they wanted to talk to the women because women tend the fires of hope and home in the heart and that's what we need to do it by the grace of god, we've got to do it. what i think we need to do now is i don't care if you don't ask me another question. we had colonel ted eisenman, one of the most heavily decorated vietnam veterans. maybe you can tell me what 49 means on iraq. a very dangerous and formidable

man with the biggest tardive ever known. he became the chief of staff of the national guard somehow because he had a mouth on him that wasn't afraid to open in the administration who was really wrote. first of all he sat on that pow mia the show is about to go crazy and doing some things, but the second thing with the web i may someday in the hallway and said johnny, i love you, you know. i was like what? this is the toughest, strongest soldier i've ever met who went aman said i love you. so it goes right along with the bowtie. i've made the first thing i like

to tell people is i love you. i want ask if you think i'm kidding. you know i'm not kidding. so we love each other. we just plain love each other. you may hate each other for what we do and who we are in the way we did things, but we loved each other. we've got to spread that out. they can't take care of that. they've got to hold a ritual for a guy who doesn't want to talk to anybody and burned candles and an article in the islander newspaper up there sent to a guy in the mail and tell them because he would come to be held this in your honor in your community and we're going to continue to think about this. this could be an annual event honoring you. i think we really need to get rid of it in terms of love and the soul level.

what is is that we can't really? to a better job in feel good? no, you're not. you're not going to put money in your ira at age 49 and feel like you are fulfilled. you've got a hole in your soulless warriors enemies to be filled with light and love and it spared we have to encourage people to spread it out. >> subducted a history lesson. i want to get to the ancient irish poem. back to the history lesson, how have our returning soldiers generally been treated by society was welcoming open arms or sean burke told to shut up and sit down? >> i think they've been treated warmly. there is a genuine affection and sense of support for returning

veterans. but it's also the case data about who they are, what they've done and they don't understand the consequences of having served there. but it's not the situation at carl and others in vietnam think when they came back. most americans don't have any idea. they ask what would we do to help in its more than just an individual reaching out to hoe. the society recognize sameness, the sort of war that we have to realize there is a common responsibility to look at today's veterans. because started in two wars in 2001 and 2003. nobody anticipated how long they would take. the mission had been accomplished for the military. it was 10 years ago today or yesterday that they pulled over the statue of saddam hussein in

a bad. nobody knew what to do next. nobody expect that the nature of the war. nobody prepared for the deployments we would ask people to serve. nobody thought about the nature of casualties. nobody thought about the care of the casualties coming out and we are still scrambling in terms of maintaining a force. it's not been ready for it. we're scrambling in terms of the medical system is certainly scrambling within the va system in terms of handling all this generation of veterans and as a society we asked you to go to war. we should not ask you to scramble when you come home. >> i was just going to say picking up from what jim is talking about is often hear people saying what is the army doing? what are the marines doing about bringing these people home?

again there is a fundamental misunderstanding. military medicine as well as military psychotherapy, they are like the trainers on the professional football team. you have a fundamental conflict of interest. their job is to get back into the fight. that's the job of military medicine. except the civilian to do the healing. it's a very big difference i do expect the military is playing up the conflict at their feet. if you heal somebody from posttraumatic stress, that's going to take a long time and they're probably not going to want to go back again. that's not wrong. that's why they are there. i always remember i was at quantico talking to the marines down there. having six programs trying because you don't know the rules

until 10 years, 15 years down the stream. this one colonel stood up and he says he was just so frustrated. we're not psychologists. murmurings. you could just see the frustration. it was somebody was built to do. so anybody who thinks it's up to the military can certainly be better. first of all the stigma of asking for help us to be removed in mandatory counseling could just remove it. every battalion has it they cut interest. the kit comes in and says i'm not feeling too good. is it the flu or something you're thinking about? they have a very different attitude and we just have to make some societal changes about that. the fundamental issue about healing is that two civilians, up to our end of it.

>> sublimate tell you who's picking up the slack today because the point is exactly right about luxury medicine. the point is to get people back in the fight in the military has stepped up to this challenge and as a result we see real strain on the military budget. military cares went through the roof and because a lot of money from dod is being transferred in this direction and that's really going to accelerate as we see other costs come down. yesterday 17 fighter groups grounded as we see military health care costs go up. so who's going to pick up the cost? civilian community has not yet realize this is a community function and if the military is constraining the money they can put man, who steps forward to help the wounded of body, mind and heart to recover? the answer right now is the stress goes on the family.

the story couldn't quite get to in "centerline" because my focus was these four groups and what they think about in their flashback to the combat and flash forward about the moment of arrival takes advantage of the moment they get off the airplane. what really happens, what really matters is what happens when they go home. who picks up that slack? many times it is a spouse who's totally unprepared for it. it's one thing to say i'm braced in in in the hospital with my spouse and i'll put up within convenient while they go through the business of a prosthetic limb, but now we're going to do this the next 39 years? that's a big challenge for the children. we can't do a piece to do. the interaction -- and i said has been on life. there's even something more complex going on if it's a way to come someone did and it has

been that has to become the caregiver. what you describe is the healing nature of women. we are about to have an experiment unique in human history as we have more and were into the front lines in the question of what role do they have is women traditionally are now in a front-line unit. there's going to be extraordinary burden for them to carry and the burden not home with the wounded wife. we haven't begun to figure out how stresses resolve them selves. i'm not sure the military can do this or you can have three classes. this is part of a cultural change that would never once talked about sharing the burden, who's going to do the work, the business of nurture and care giving. we may need to rethink the responsibility and dedication

when you sign up and raise your hand think it's not a note. i'm getting married. you're still dedicated and promised yourself to someone and something. we may have to give some real hard at about how to re-create the family and as an extension in a way that provides that kind of care over the long-term. >> john, you're one of the first ones to get to see these men and women when they do come back from combat. what do we do to get them to readjust? >> talk to them. general farmer gave me a t-shirt does that help the soldiers today. listen to them first however. every case is different. what can we do?

i think we need to bring our units closer together in some money. we need to address together the psychological spiritual issues. you must talk about these? we've got to shoot, move and communicate. these issues of people really seeing each other. people do not feel seen. it's a terrible thing to not be seen. a lot of our soldiers feel they are not. the way they solved that, what i would like to get into, one of our favorite topics the last couple nights talking his way people want to go back? the myth that they want to go back because of the rash.

a number of us question not. i think they want to go back because, karl uses the word because there's meaning taxpayer. a woman this morning talked about the issue of control. you have some control over your irony. when you're in an environment where there is no control like in the united states and strange things are happening that they have no sovereignty over, go back to a situation where you can troll the situation in great order to your squad into the company. i think we need to take that element of control and keep the local. we need to give people with jobs

in the military and examiner training. we've really got a problem trying to figure out what we're going to do with training for people who've been overseas. you folks come and thank god there's a lot of women in the audience scummy new women the tenets coming up. you have to go out and interest people and coming together as a unit when there's not an immediate threat, when you don't have the luxury of the rash. instead, what we are all thinking is the meaning and feeling of belonging and we have to put that together somehow because without that, the training drills is just a laugh. hurry up and wait and it's just a joke. so let's go do that. let's go bring ourselves closer together. it's going to mean they've got to behave differently. it's not going to happen on an

iphone. >> one of the issues is counting. you count when you're in combat. if you're a 19-year-old and you don't do your job, somebody can die. it's not the society's fault. it's the way it is. the committee vice president of the corporation and not show up for a few days. not much happens. they wonder if you're offered a golf game. i want to go back where i cannot. that's not an adrenaline rush. it's a different motivation. >> something that occurs to me that i recall a few years ago cnn interview, just to tape down in quantico of a young lieutenant who is back from iraq and he looked like he was 22 --

he actually looked like he was 15, but he was probably 22. yet gone over as a platoon leader in iraq and within the first week he was there, yet a couple of men killed and he was haunted by that inside every morning i wake up and think about to forget this. i've got to get out of my mind. i don't want to spend the rest of my life remembering this and that's immediately followed at the recognition. he said no, every minute for the rest of my life i have to remember this. my young man have a responsibility to make certain they are not forgotten. i have to admit her and that is a burden to carry and i suspect he will.

>> can i just offer what will be a very short story for the cadet because i face the problem here. i had to establish my responsibility in the military but to retreat to rescind show up as a lieutenant in charge. someone used the term mission earlier today. michigan is the key to this. the key to establishing your authority. if there's something we could do coming back, it would be to give them a mission. we had a commemoration of the battle of the marianas very quickly as i recall the american

fleet and the japanese in order to attack these japanese to the west of them. the japanese plan was to bomb the american fleet, land, renowned khmer brief it, refuel and strike a second time on the way back to the carriers. straight, land, combat. what actually happened was that the japanese struck the carriers the dive bombers, only part of them had advised against japanese carriers. there were no runways. they were destroyed upon landing. they are from world war ii but one of them began to cry. i turned to have been sad what

was your participation? is that i wrote in the backseat of a type runner. in the at the sky and we got to the bottom and they released it on in the pilot had been shot in the guide. he said i was part of the group that wants the island and i thought it till this moment is somebody screwed up because i lost good friends in that attack and the other guys on the aircraft carrier went to attack the fleetingly chucked bombs on a runway. that battle i have been angry at the world. i've been mad because i thought somebody screwed up because life is not fair i took it out of my wife and my children and now i discover we were the main attack.

if there is a thing you could carry out about helping soldiers menu come back in the thing you could take out of this for the rest of your career is wherever you go, whatever, you are the main attack. dishonesty focus your truth on that mission and take care of that mission that will all work out. >> thanks, dave. i think we have time for a few questions and answers. when you come up, state your name and a few minor question to be answered by specific panelists, please let us know. you have to come up to the i/o. it is going to be one on either side.

i will start at karl. you had one passage that reminded him what colonel coffin was talking about, the female influence on the soldiers and this is from an ancient irish folklore 18. speenine this is the story of coupland. the mythic hero in the irish odyssey of virus mythology and dangerous. she is coming back from battle. the king and queen, the center of the irish culture is standing on the ramparts and ac coupling coming. it's like he's got wild swans the carriage pities gadgeteer before him. he's just boiling and steaming

and they are terrified. they are terrified and the king doesn't know what to do. he slammed shut the doors to the gates in the right to chariot around showing us left-hand essay and he wipes himself with so it's a great insult. he says i can take you with my left hand. they are terrified inside. they don't know what to do. the queen steps out through the doors and she bears her breasts and says you must deal with the sedan comes right back down to ground. but that's about is the feminine , f. balancing out the wild warrior energy. what they do is they throw them into a pot of water boils it out and throw in another one and it

boils the dow. he drove in another run and he finally come to see me. and then he's back to normal and he goes into the castle and sits down at the foot of the king. that's where the warrior is. ..

>> to the policymakers and the strategy makers. also, you know, cheaper tactics. what was a little used on this mission. but we have to ask at this grand strategy is working. i would like to hear your comments on so you had a problem

with the all volunteer force? so how does that play into civil liberties, and why not just force policymakers to actually work going to were constitutionally? >> well, that is a tough one to handle. let's see. >> i can start that one. the first is the frustrations that we will never get away from. you know, i was a lieutenant. and whenever we were going into battle come you talk to the squad leaders and we were all basically trying to figure things out amongst ourselves. nobody knew the grand strategy. i don't know when you do know the grand strategy. colonel, do you know the grand strategy? i just think that that is -- that is a difficult one.

>> the other part was the all volunteer force. i was wondering if maybe you could get america to put some skin in the game by conscripting the. >> i am not asking this in terms of the draft of the military. but i do think that there should be service. we want special people that can do the job. that is no shame but i would want to be in the marine corps with. how to read, teaching them to build service trails. it would be a lot cheaper, they're there are all kinds of things that can be done. the question about civil liberties -- you feel like you are a slave to government?

>> this is a republic by the people for the people. it means that you have to pony up. when you pony up the taxes, you are being part of the community. to ask you to devote your time to earn money and then give it to the government, you can go ahead and feel that way. all you have to do is understand that that is community. that is not able liberties issue. and i think the same thing goes for asking people to serve their time between the ages of 18 and 20. do you want to chip in or not? i don't think it's a civil rights issue. >> hello, my name is andrew and i would like to honor you as my brothers and sisters in the audience for your military service. personally and sincerely, i thank you for your service.

i'm also really grateful to be able to be here and that you offer this to the public. as he said, we are healing civilians, and as my friend says, it is peacemaking. i am really moved not just by the intelligence coming from you all here, this is important. it is important work, this idea of coming home and it is going to take a concerted effort, military and civilian.

we are talking about the stereotype of the vietnam vets. i am not sure that i have this stereotype in my head. because those guys have all kill themselves. the fact is that many have been lost to suicide and many were killed in combat in the war. not just a few, but twice as many. when i first heard that, you got me, i got it.

i am not sure which common it is, if you want to pick it up, mr. mcintyre. but your friend who suggested the change from ptsd to posttraumatic stress syndrome, do you have any sense that monica would have a better shot at the entitlement to the purple heart then ptsd does now? >> it would probably have less. i don't know how we will deal with the question of how displaced it is very hard to

tell when the problem starts and it's very hard to know what the problem is. it's very hard to address a treatment. so that makes it very hard to assign and award the sacrifice that we have suffered. the thing that i'm operating in is that folks have been wounded come up wrangham home. you people home up to the moment

they arrive. what they are thinking, if they come back to combat come back him as a flash forward. i would prefer to invite the state surgeon to comment on that. the vermont national guard state surgeon. this is a thoughtful and brilliant man with five or six tours under his belt and this is not a new issue. would you like to comment quickly? >> along the lines of what our questions are. now there are more people die of

suicide and have actually died in combat. so this is one of the signature wounds of the conflict. i think that when you look at these issues, i think the issue of this, we have tried to blast injuries and concussions and there has been migration or not. it is a very hard thing. i think one of the things -- i don't know that there ever will be an answer to that question, you know what i mean? and i guess maybe sometimes the way that i look at that is that if the campaign that we have been given. when i talk about the consequences of the war, i always like to use the example. people ask how rough is it to go to combat. and i said, it is a very minimum thing. imagine going to work one day and not leaving for a year.

i said that that is the absolute minimum that every soldier goes into. we say, hey, look, don't ever tell somebody. we are the society to these sheltered deaths. so we are not ready for that. and that is part of our culture. many other cultures have really integrated this into their life experience. that effect creates a lot of care and concern with our soldiers. >> it is very important how wars treat their veterans. the release early part of the 20th century, it was at least public policy.

>> it was only with the g.i. bill that bill that was approved in the summer of 1944. we started giving support to anyone who served during the war. and that has been the pattern in the war since then. to okay. since we get several people lined up, that suggests to questions at a time. let's hear the question and we can conclude the answers together.

let's talk about the active units on the ground in the military or on the seats. service members and their families, do you think that they will get swept under the rug and forgotten in the next couple of years as to how we dealt with insurgency and japan and how we had to relearn those things. >> my name is ben can tell. my question has to do with the constitutionality of several liberties. what about the constitutionality of forces abroad. and we don't have civilian support. i really don't understand what that means. can we see, and how can we put a change in society where people become involved? >> that's great. it is kind of a composite

question, just like you just in the agreement. we even forgot about the wars we were engaged in. and if we keep that information from them, we are taking them out of the constitutional process. you know, electing their representatives to decide whether or not we should go to war and then sending our troops in harms way. you know, we have gotten to the point where we don't even have that discussion. >> there hasn't even been a constitutional declaration of war since december 8, 1941. and all the wars since then, korea, others, others have authorized them to send in their power and vietnam, those that gave lyndon johnson a blank check, both arrive in afghanistan, many think it's okay to take action to defend the united states. it was ambiguous, but it was a blank check and there has never been a declaration of war.

and i do think that that is a mistake. we have had these words, we have stepped up the polls, now there is more nationbuilding in afghanistan. that is certainly novel not what we were talking about in october october 2001. there is a part of me that knows that no war is popular. it's a necessary thing and there has to be public and political support. we have not exercised that. most of the time, in the last election, 7% of americans spoke about the war in afghanistan. the fact that the politicians are ignoring it, it speaks to the fact that we have ignored it. >> talking about the fact that

in terms of forgetting it, we have opportunities here. the first time in probably the only time that the national guard, separate armies from each state when people look at it have gone. our veterans would be forgotten? this is up to us and the upside is up to us. these are our neighbors and church members and let's remember we were there. we were there in quantity and ali.

westminster, each of these towns, they had real people living next door. people there and the like. >> i was just going to answer the question about what we can do about making sure that people are okay. first of all, i think that if we have a clear vote going into war, declaring war, then each of those members of congress are going to go back to the constituency and explain why they voted that way. the way they do now, it is just like well, you know, you don't want any responsibility for that. you stand up and be counted. we must ask them before the vote whether or not they really want to war. number two is i don't think you should never do it on borrowed money. if you go to war, you raise taxes. everyone gets involved. there will be a surcharge. every april 15, the entire nation will look at that and wonder if they ought to.

this time. or maybe we ought to stop, or what are we doing about it. my favorite example is that when i was at yale, there was a plaque on the wall as big as the whole stage. there were hundreds of names of those who fought in world war ii and korea. and we lost one soldier in vietnam. i think the universities today, they hardly send anybody today. it is very small. how are you going to get them back involved again? i mean, i don't know how anyone can do this under government money. if your kids are contributing, how are you going to get more money? i mean, it was like, come on, you guys. we are all in the same bowl.

>> anything that we are integrating these jobs for our veterans? can you talk with us about veterans not been able to get jobs. this is another question. the social ingratiation of killing. it is accepted. also, if you can talk about spirituality as part of the battle. i'm just curious as i am

considering that of a chaplain in a career. even with that, doctor mcintyre come you have mentioned the possibility of social security. i still have a lot of time to go. the people are going to be doing their best. how are they going to put this global footprint on things. because of this idea and your topic of moral integrity and military integrity and questionable leadership. how are we going to be able to identify this? at least from what i have seen so far, this is not something that we are taught. were we going to do in order to

combat this? >> i think we denigrate those two questions. doctor roy, you know, with your work with the veterans groups, what helps these opportunities for veterans? is there any special treatment? are they feeling even more isolated because we -- well, i think that this population as a whole.

there are still plenty of blue-collar jobs, especially after world war ii, that was the case. it was not the case now. so i do think that the education was critical for this. >> your work on the new g.i. bill is important. i would like to talk about the opportunities for returning veterans. they may not have taken certain courses, they may not have had some of these other situations

encourage them. they need individual counseling. that is what i think. >> okay, is the psycho association a fundamental imperative for the soldiers go to war? >> i think so. we read about a british marine and a 14 or 15-year-old kid herding goat.

the issue may have been paramount. but he couldn't do it. he was just a kid. if you are able to kill people, they think you're a psychopath or a sociopath. i wanted to address this issue of this young man. for the young man that wanted to be a chaplain. we had a really important football game against north catholic. and the local priest, father

from my hometown come he was a real football fan and he came into the locker room before the game and there was none of this nonsense about nobody gets hurt, we all do our best. he came in there and he said, let's beat the other team. and so the father, i'm sitting there at the game and north catholic was the powerhouse. we wanted to go to the state championship. and i'm sitting here saying, but doesn't north catholic have a priest? that is one it hit me. god doesn't care what side we are on. god is upon us fighting each other. why can't we solve it a better way. god is about individual souls and what happens to the individual soul in the crucible of that fiery conflict people

have no choice for where they are born, someone grows up in oregon, others grow up in north vietnam, they face each other on some war-torn area. it is a political question. so i think that is a chaplain, we focus on the soles and helping them through the crucibles. >> would you like to quickly answer that? >> i believe that every potential soldier knows what to do. you know what to do. you know what to do. you just get sucked into the hierarchy where we have to make it vision whereby our way out of the situation to save our butts

were the commanders but. but i would just ask carl to talk about the kids. he basically said he just couldn't do it. he said he knew better. that is the reason that he wouldn't. in his heart and soul he knew that i am not going to do this. the only guy who came back alive stood up proud of who he was in the decisions he made. and he did not come back with one man or one woman. so where did we lose the idea that we know what to do. but we will do the right thing. we can see it, we just have to act on it. it's not a matter of courage, but it is a matter of necessity. you remember the rest of your

life because you have made and i know you'll make the right one. >> i wrote a major character in this novel. every nurse i interviewed said i could not have done my job without a chaplain. i just hung out a striking fact. and that is why i wrote it or he is a recognized that is because you listen to other people doesn't mean you don't have problems too. >> i'm talking about a soldier that had a supportive family.

including how society has changed. what i want to ask you is do you think that we should focus more on pushing our young men for our citizens to combat, or should we be more concerned in dealing with what they combat? >> i have noticed over the past few years that there is a bit of an anomaly forming especially with the views within our country are i think that we touched on it lightly earlier. he referred to it as the iphone generation. i have come to call it the xbox generation. but what i am looking at is a very gross misperception of war, and it seems to stem a little bit from media and tv shows and movies and especially from videogames. and i have seen children and adolescents and even young adult. more and more seem to have this complete disconnect between the reality of war and what has been

brought to them in this fantasy world. and i'm wondering in the long run over the next decade or maybe the next generation, what kind of affect is this going to have on the military. and if there is a negative effect behind it, the only way to exit, what is that? >> well, let me answer the first one. we have to take care of the soldiers who combat, and we have to have soldiers overseas are this is not a choice. you know, we do not live in a world where this is easy. let me remind everyone that this was the first fireman killed on 9/11, he was killed by civilians the jump from a building because they were roasting to that. we did not make this up. this came to our shores and it will come again and again. the reason we went through a tennis then it because our government approach the taliban and said, you have a loud the

people to build camps in their country and train and move equipment and have managed control. and if you will run them out, we won't have to come and get them. that is why we are in afghanistan. we can debate about whether it was done in an intelligent fashion and whether there are smarter ways to do this strategy. the question is about whether we need to have soldiers who combat. i mean, we all sitting here and i wonder what happened in the north korean border. one are chillier man makes a mistake and drops 130-millimeter rounds and kills 50 people. we have a problem. we have a problem. we are back at work. we have news for you about korea. so we have a great question. we have to prioritize what we are going to do and that is what strategy is. that is what resources prioritize and what we have not done as a nation. figuring out what effect we want and how much are we going to pay for it.

until then, we have a problem. but whatever that is in it, a better include young men and women willing to do what needs to be done. it is what my son is doing in afghanistan. putting them back together, which is what the nurses are. or take care of them when they get home. the world is full of predators and if you want to find out what life is like as a sheet, one way to do it is in. >> on the second half of that, iphone, xbox generation games, i don't think it makes us killers. my two boys had stayed up all night playing the games and they are not killers. but i do think that there is some danger in the sense that empathy is learned. you were not born with empathy.

letting 2-year-old beat up on each other and so forth. when you hit johnny, that her johnny. you know? empathy is learned and video games and xbox's and stuff like that are anti-empathy machines. and i think that is the danger and it takes appearance to say, okay, you just love this thing. but if that was a real person, maybe that would not be good. i think many kids say, i know they are not real. but i think another thing is even more dangerous than the xbox is the reactions of parents. if little mary ann little johnny are sitting on the floor and there is a tv show on. and someone is rudely murdered and their parents to get another beer -- they are like, well, mom and dad were not affected by that and it's no big deal. and again it comes back to the responsibility. to constantly be monitoring.

you say, you know, this is horrible, we do not like this if this happened in real life area so this empathy is something that parents need to teach people. >> i l