>> our guest for the last three hours a divided house is the first book. doctors to run the. the sex change society. america's social revolution. the world turned upside down. and finally a guardian angel is the long dash being published today which is her autobiography. melanie philips.com is her web site this is a booktv on c-span2.

>> there tends to be a denigration of that when one battalion slaughtered american battalions or one slaughtered another regiment that the germans were tactically superior. that mano a mano they were the better military. i think it is nonsense because it is pointless. it is a clash of systems systems, which system can produce the wherewithal to project power the atlantic or pacific or indian ocean or southeast asia and which can produce the civilian

leadership to create the transportation system that is able to produce 96,000 airplanes

[inaudible conversations] >> yes, i am here mr. chairman. >> we will not begin our second panel. let me begin to introduce our panelists. the first is the vice president of veterans policy for bet's first and co-chair of the consortium of citizens with disabilities, veterans task force the second panelist is

all dirt gonzalez the third panelist is president and ceo of black veterans for social justice and the fourth panelist is national president of american veterans for equal rights. i will ask each panelist to swear or affirm that the affirmation you're about to provide as is true and accurate to the best of your knowledge and belief. is that correct? we all here earlier when i explain the system of the warning light? we will now begin. please proceed. >> thank you for the opportunity to present information up protecting the civil rights of disabled veterans. represent the of commission for 60 years of veterans to their families spec as a veterans' organization at the primary mission is to ensure that veterans with disabilities could reintegrate into their community after acquiring a

disability to ensure that veterans have access vetsfirst for rights record presentation to assist to apply for benefits than it minister the online portal through which to space can submit a question that would be as a trained officer through this we assist thousands of veterans and their families. vetsfirst also provides extensive executive branch focus and advocacy on behalf of disabled veterans is guided by three core principles to promote community integration and independence, to, timely access to quality health care in benefits and three, protecting the civil rights as people with disabilities the remainder by testimony focuses on four areas we believe should be addressed to protect the civil rights of veterans we believe the programs must allow disabled veterans to receive long-term services in their homes and

communities. providing increased access to ensure proper support for the caregiver is critical to ensure the community integration and without these and other types of support many disabled veterans would be a risk of the institutional is asian. united states supreme court of the americans with disability act requires that long time services of support with people for disabilities administered by public entities be provided in the most integrated setting we believe the virginia must be more robust to balance their own system to provide additional services by a shifting resources for a more balanced approach of long-term services and support and programs white said va home and community-based services program represent a good way to provide long-term services for people with disabilities. this programs allow veterans

flexibility to manage as a budget soon which they can purchase long term services and support they need to be independent and also represents an important step to fill community integration promise we hope this will continue to be expanded and disabled veterans will be educated about its benefits. second we must increase access to communities with disabled veterans in through the years we have worked with the dip of -- with hud to insure access to homes and communities we believe it has not only insuring compliance with nondiscrimination compliance and section five '04 with the rehabilitation act but also to this ability allows people to be a part of their neighborhoods and communities by integrating a minimum level of accessibility and housing units that is not covered

under section 504. we're working with the hud office assisted will candies to help to include people with disabilities and required planning process. this effort is important to affirmative the reach fair housing but we're also working with hud to give stability we believe these efforts are key to increase access to the environment for disabled veterans. third, we believe we must increase access to transportation options over the years our advocacy which numerous factories that have access to public transportation for all people disabilities who but for example, where actively working to increase the number of wheelchair accessible taxicabs in your city, washington d.c. and other metropolitan areas and also working to ensure others are not discriminated against when seeking access to a taxicab said people use

service channels it is key to ensuring access to health care an opportunity to participate in the community. lastly we believe we must increase access from education opportunities. veterans at disabilities like other people face barriers to employment that include misinformation about misperception about required accommodation and disabled veterans ought to remain that challenges disability rights advocates traditional and of a breach of communication in veterans who have disabilities will likely not be as familiar with the disability community or programs available to those with disabilities and are more likely to relay -- rely on peer services bethesda civil war protection due to disability purchasing goods and services to have a if

anything that could be any more with veteran specific laws and for many veterans it takes an encounter with their broader disability rights movement to help them understand their connection to the community. they are aware of the employment projections of that ada and those generally should work together to remove barriers from employment the ada is an important tool with the reemployment for the need to educate veterans with the employment of education begins in a transition at of the military. those as a result of the military services need a basic understanding of the protection available to them under the law as they return to the work force to seek educational opportunities to

make sure this is received by all service members to needed but also for employment or education opportunities space to acknowledge the efforts of the eeoc to reach out for veterans under the ada and we hope that greater inter agency collaboration between va and department of labour and the eeoc will make sure that they understand the protections available to them. thank you for the opportunity to present our views this concludes our testimony. >> our staff has asked you to confirm whether there are any individuals in our audience that have the need for signing which interpretation please notify the commission staff. thank you. >> chairman and commissioners thank you for allowing us to come before

you to make comments. we have sat on the side of the table and our founder hector garcia was nominated by president johnson years ago. the reform did star as an advocacy group for the over 500,000 mexican veterans and i say mexican because most of them were from the southwest at the time of mexican descent of world war ii with the discrimination they were facing at the time but we have evolved as a veterans' organization. even though the majority of membership is of hispanic descent, we involve all veterans whether female, black, white, we are veterans organization. in my written statement to you, let me preface this

come i am not a combat that. i have never been in combat so a lot of my comments are rhetorical because some of the data is difficult to come by. but what i will do is request permission from the commission to deviate to talk about three individuals that the power springs gazette did a story on. i was contacted by a grandmother or an aunt from california at and for a sergeant stationed at fort carson going to the wounded unit. the article is called a disposable soldiers. it is soldiers that are being chapter out of the military. i could not find any data

has -- as to how many soldiers were hispanic so i will just use the numbers that we got when i contacted the individuals from the gazette that did the research. as the psd, do you deal admits there has been over 2.4 million deployments to the war is in iraq and afghanistan. with over 400,000 of those being deployed three or four times and with each appointment -- deployment or another psychological illness prices -- rises. even today right across the

street at the grand hyatt hyatt, and the homeless veterans coalition conference is to deal with homeless veterans. i will not talk to you about the pds see witches and attributing factor but the gse makes it difficult lot of times for these soldiers follow the orders that are necessary to be good soldiers but at some point* some incidents causes them to not be good soldiers one of the soldiers was wounded and back in the united states and got rehabilitation and half of his face blown off and volunteered to go back so what made him be a bad soldiers when he came back a second time he enlisted when he was 31 years old.

what made him a bad a soldier that the military did not want to keep him? now they have a lot of options they could have given him a medical discharge coming in 1912 or 2012, i apologize was taking almost 400 days to accomplish that. there is an article in hear of another soldier who sat in jail in el paso county for a person does not have their own regular jail so they put him in the county jail and he sat there three months without any charges or any military charges. when he did go back to the post to the transition unit they said we will article 15

you to get you out or you can assign article 10 which is the chapter 10 to give up benefits. article 10 you can come out with less than honorable conditions in once you give those that you lose a lot of your benefits. the majority of the va benefits. it is not the d.a.'s fault we have created a lot of homeless in vietnam war that we have homelessness. that comment without data is it is the department of defense. we have prepared these men and women for war, we don't prepare them to come home. i will stop there and hopefully we can have some questions and dialogue. >> thank you.

ms. mcclinton? >> thank-you to the chairman and the commissioner. for allowing me the opportunity to street briefly to you today. in january 1994 i transition from the and it is states army as an active-duty soldier for an owner billy discharge homeless female veteran with three children under the age of five by a completed all the briefings facilitated by the assistance program but the future for me in my son's based on information little did i know that as soon as the mandela korea i would be homeless with no access to resources from rich children. walleye a weighted in homeless shelters and nicely dressed gentleman came through the emergency system unit handing out flowers

about a community-based organization about veterans of social justice located out of your candid past are you veteran? a un need of tender loving care and i immediately said yes. i took the fire and made my way and once i arrived i was shocked by the veterans that were there for help i sat down and waited to be help with the phone that just kept ringing and ringing and nobody would answer the phone. so i went to the desk and a whole -- and i picked up the phone and i have been there ever since. this organization that i dunno they received a job as a receptionist predator also gave me a two-bedroom beautiful apartment for me and my children to reside in. as i began to work, i began

to heal took the class ising counseling to make the needed adjustments. i thought bvsj was helping me with the my family and within two years and was promoted and 17 years later i am honored to serve as the first african-american female to be appointed as the president and ceo of the veterans service community-based organization. black veterans for social justice establish 1979 and not-for-profit community based organizations servicing men and women veterans, families and members of the community. bvsj services an estimated 12,000 clients in the past six years and provide with military personnel to make a transition we dedicate to

veterans and families in social readjustment, housing , emplo yment, compensation, disabil ity, a family, intervention family, intervention, a counseling and relocation and advocacy, a discharge of craig and within the military in we will provide counseling and a listening ear and tender loving care. the social services under the umbrella of bvsj the veterans service center, and the veterans themselves, a homeless veterans reintegration program for single veterans and also a homeless reintegration program for women veterans are veterans and families. we have a consortium for workers education, supported housing programs, permanent housing, housing for individuals who have hiv/aids, and housing of the mix dwelling units for those of some mental illness and

community-based revenue. shelters which handles 200 men who are now trying to get into housing and also employment. we also have the her diem program which is for women veterans that we supply the services for the family members said they will go into an apartment setting instead of a facility or institutional typesetting. national and local government needs to take full responsibility for the quality of life of soldiers in the war and military the government does not provide full medical and social service coverage for soldiers and their families. children and spouses are not eligible for medical treatment as the veterans administration or the hospital where the soldier becomes a veteran. that is to the point* to give each one an opportunity for the middle or upper class quality of life.

better in space the perplexity of issues while transitioning from military to civilian life. these are exasperated when policy and procedure that are known but not written, hit and obstacles comment those that cause civil harm and while applying for employment there now scrutinized more than civilians applying for the same job while employers are not allowed to ask about medical or mental status they will pose a question in the form of interest. are you in the military? where do you serve? teeeight uc combat? emissive been hard and then that with the answer they provide and while seeking housing veterans are known as the angry veteran that they have ptsd or whatever causes the trauma they use that to hinder them from housing especially when they go for housing like me be up

condominium or a co-op or within a gated community or a higher level of living veterans should not be subject to housing that holds case management they should have other doors open to them so that they have an adequate life for them and their families. thank you. >> mr. ingram please proceed >> good morning. it is the great honor for this georgia farm boy to address such an august group of people. i want to thank you for your service on this commission which indeed is very important. i and the national president of veterans for equal rights witches of was being gay and transsexual gender organization founded almost 25 years ago by a who served general for two, a career in vietnam in the united states

navy and worked his way and enlisted officer six months short of his full retirement of the united states navy officer he was dishonorably discharged for being gay. due to the work of our organization in many others like us, that will not happen to anyone else and never again will and the american service never die on the battlefield because the medic who could have saved his life was kicked out of the military for being gay. this is actually my second trip to washington d.c. this week. i had the honor on monday of placing a wreath at arlington with another organization called military partners and families coalition. they're the ones who should be speaking to you today and it is about their members that i will be addressing you specifically. i would like to name chief officer dunbar, her spouse

spouse, are her wife and their son a live chat and their daughter michelle who are stationed at fort bragg. they are a military family struggling with all problems trying to make it through deployment, yet they are denied the same rights of other military families by the defense of marriage act. the defense of mary jack denies equal pay for equal service to the honored united states marines, soldiers, sailors marines, soldiers, sailors, airmen and coast guard men that are legally married to the same gender spouse who stand side-by-side with their counterparts around the planet to defend our nation's liberty, sharing the same risk and the same

responsibilities coming yet are denied the same basic rights. according to the cbo report the cost of military pay and benefits of the defense budget dated november november 2012, benefits account at approximately two-thirds of overall military compensation. many of these benefits include health insurance insurance, try care, housing allowance, joint assignment options, survivors' benefits , life insurance insurance, education assistance, the real benefits of moving expenses, a family support for deploying spouses, and joint qualification for va loans disability will of the surviving spouse compensation and the v.a. caregiver support among many others are denied by doma mary kay and lesbian service members and veterans, spouses and their children.

such a bully in denial of civil rights of our service members is offensive to all justice loving americans and it dishonors the very freedom that these patriotic men and women risk their lives to defend. old ddt service members must be added as a military class with the center for minority veterans. designate as a protected class with officers with that carry issues of discrimination and harassment our lbgt members to not have access from a the harm of fellow service members. . .

such as double and triple ptsd resulting from maintaining a false identity and fear of being fired from their job, and they also suffered obvious and official discrimination in the past. transgender-americans are men and women just like any other person, and there is no reason that they cannot serve alongside other men and women in the armed forces just as they do in most of our allied countries. the policies that prevent the service of these men and women should be abolishedded to allow patriotic volunteers who are transgender the right to serve in our country. thank you very much. >> thank you, appreciate it. we'll now open it up to questions from commissioners, and i'll ask those on the phones, if you have questions, highlight for me now.

>> i do not, mr. . >> okay. >> mr. chairman, i'm going to have to get off the line to actually come in in person so i'll pass my questions as well. >> you'll ask in person or ask one now? >> i'll see if i can make it in time, but, no, since i need to leave now anyway, i may have to benefit from reading the transcript. >> okay, we'll wait for you then. >> thanks. >> go ahead. >> mr. chairman, i do not have a question. >> pardon me? >> i did not have a question. >> okay, sorry, thought you did. okay. so i have a question. are there any specific issues that you see as it relates to latino and latina service members that they may uniquely face disportionally to veterans relating to issues of civil

rights enforcement? >> you know, since the 1960s and 70s, so much improved. it's really difficult to quantity my and qualify saying, yes, there is still some, if you would, but it's difficult to quantify that. i find it difficult to say yes, that there is, but that at the same time i find it difficult to say no, that it's not. >> do you know if anyone collects that data? the commissioner was asking for data. >> no, i don't know of any of that specific type data. the veterans' outreach program

in san antonio, you come in with a dd214 with honorable, general, and with honorable conditions discharged, you're allowed into the house. we don't keep that type of information as far as i understand. the employment is as windy said, you know, a lot of it is in the human resource people that don't have the, i think you use the term earlier, cultural training, if you will, you know, how do you deal with these veterans. you know, the veteran population is approximately 1%, so you got 300,000 soldiers and sailors and marines, airmen across the country so that means the majority of the people that sit in hr positions don't know,

don't understand the hardships that our military men and women faced, especially those today that have two, three, four deployments. i met a retired master sergeant in the army, he had seven deployments in the last 12 years. he was in the first deployment to iraq, and he was there when the last helicopters left. i asked him specifically with his issue with ptsd, and he said i was an older soldier, had young men and women responsible to me, i had my family at home when i came home, that i could kind of diffuse a lot of that stuff where some of the young men and women, 18, 19, 20 years

old, that after 9/11 seeing that horrific incident on tv being anyone, ten, 1 # 1 years old, decided to do something for their country, and they just didn't have that. >> commissioner? >> [inaudible] >> anybody who wants to chime in, go ahead, but we talked about veterans. we talked about active duty servicemen. we6 not talked about benefits concerns surviving spouses of service mep killed in a,. do you have opinions op that? >> certainly, survivors' independents benefits are very important, and there are several things that need to be rectified. one is a perennial issue that came up before congress related to an offset between dependency,

dependence and compensation for survivors. i know i messed that up, dic, relating to another program that dod has, the survivor benefit plan, and right now, there's an offset between the two programs so that the survivor benefit program is something a service member paid into in the event something happened to them to help their survivorring individuals. yet, there's an offset between what that, the person can receive from that and what they would receive from va. you can't receive both of the benefits, even though one was paid into with the idea you would be able to get it. >> but a veteran can receive, like, disability benefits that are not taxed and social security benefits with no set off; isn't that correct? >> this is correct. you can receive social security disability. there's not benefits there.

>> not taxed extra? >> veteran's compensation is not taxed. >> anything else anybody else would comment on that question? >> well, i would like to comment on that, of course. [inaudible] of course, they deny the benefits to legally married, just like other legally married men and women who happened to be married to same-sex spouses. the benefits are vital and denied to some of our service members. >> another question i have is everyone's -- i'm interested in this, and you all talked about housing. does anyone have data on veteran

exclusion from housing because of ptsd, disabilities, things like that, and does anybody have data for exclusions just because people are veterans? today, i know somebody was talking earlier about being in combat, not being in combat. those people who are deploy today, they are all this combat, i mean, you're in a combat zone, nobody's in the safe space so to say so i think when we keep talking about housing and discrimination, i really vice president seen any data. is there a need for collection of data of that sort because there's very mu lawsuits in that regard, very few resolutions. we heard today -- 1400 labor claims in a year, and i'm just wondering, do we have numbers,

or is this all little antedoal information collected? >> wildfire you answer that, i think mcclintonmented to respond as well. >> oh, i'm sorry. >> that's okay. >> should have just yelled at me. >> that's okay. when we talk about benefits to dependents, being in the military itself is traumatic, all by itself, and then it always looks at variant classes or groups that are within the military veteran realm that should receive benefits. you have the survivors' benefit, you have the retirees' benefit, but what happened to benefits in general? when we were in the military, they said they would take care of all of our needs when we left the military. all includes our depends. now that we transition out of the military, what happened to the dependents? you asked about the numbers. there, every year, there's an

annual legislative caucus that takes place here in washington, d.c.. b under that caucus, there's a group called the congressional caucus brain trust. the executive director's name holds the data with the various minority groups with regard to housing, different issues with employment so this congressional caucus will meet this september, and this brain trust round table meets as well. i invite you to, please, speak with them to see how you could be a part of that discussion, and you'll be able to get the numbers that you are looking for with regard to employment, homelessness, and any other disparities with regard to minority veterans in various classes. >> thank you. >> any other responses? >> i would like to add to that that, sending our troops to war,

taking care of them when they return is part and parcel to that decision to send them to war. the decision was made. we sent them. we are not hop nor -- honoring our part of that responsibility to fully take care of them and all of their needs when they return, and that is a matter of national defense because if young people see that we do not care for the veterans who return from the wars that we are fighting, they will not volunteer to serve in the military. our country is not doing a good job of taking care of our veterans who are returning, and that is a very serious problem. it is a breach of promise. >> thank you. commissioner? >> yeah, still trying to figure out how to make this work in terms of the context of this

commission. one of the quick things you brought up, mr. gone -- gonzalez, interested me, those discharged with less than honorable, and i take it without presuming mr. ingram, what kind of discharge? >> i was honorably discharged. >> good for you. >> most people under don't ask, don't tell were honorable discharges. >> prior to that, they were not? >> that's correct. >> okay. cor yows about the honorable discharges, especially those who may not be citizens, that's curious to me, but aside from the particular group, just to educate me about that, what are the -- what are the benefits or lack of benefits does anyone who receives this kind of discharge receive or not receive, and i'll

throw this out to everyone here who does this for -- who councils people for a living. if you receive a less than honorable discharge, what penalty attaches to you in terms of going out for a job, va programs, hud programs, whatever? >> if i could, depends on the human resource person and how educated they are if they ask you for the dd2-14 because it's printed there boldly the discharge, general, less than honorable, okay? number one, they have that in front of them right away to they could possibly continue with the interview, but then hold that against you for employment. if you do get a chapter 10 #, what it is is a lot of time these individuals, the three individuals specifically the

four day coverage in the newspaper, it's an option that's given to the soldier. we can give you a court marshall, a chapter 14, a misconduct, or quick and easy is the chapter 10 where you're company commander can basically sign you out and you're gone. i did have specifics. one individual was a noncitizen that was chaptered out, chaptered out with under honorable conditions, and his was he had in between deployments got a dui in the state of colorado. he was starting to go through the requiredded state training or classes when his unit was deployed again.

even though he had notified the state, next he knew, because he missed two classes cop sectively, he now had a warrant out so he notified the commander, you know, when he came back within a week, they said, well, you got to, you know, the army caught the paperwork that he had a warrant, but they did not see what the warrant was for, and within seven days chaptered out of the hairmy, and now we worked with him to get the paperwork done because he was a dreamer, brought here from the age of 3 years old, and senator bennett worked with him and the office in denver worked with him really csh got that issue taken care of real fast. took work on upgrading his general to inhonorable because his wife reached out.

you know, a lot of times he, himself was scared to come out of the house because now he lost his green card, legal permanent res dents that expired because he had not got it updated, and so now he was actually an undocumented, and to we worked with him. >> just to add to that, even the fact that if you think it takes more claims disability to be processed, this whole upgrade process is longer than that because even if an individual has a disability that may have occurred while in the military, until you get that upgrade up to a place where they can go to the va, where they can go apply for a claim on who deals with the disability and until you get the va for the service. the claim disability takes anywhere from 360 days, the

backlog. this particular upgrade piece is tedious and longer. it's a two-fold process with that. also, you asked the question about chapters and discharges they have. based on what that particular, there's another piece on there, there's a longer sheet, the second sheet. the second sheet has another code that's on there. the code could be an r4. an r4, codes like that could be obesity. it's why you were put out the military. some people are not put out the military because they did something wrong. they are put out of the military for being overweight. if you have a booking, and like you said, if hr is not keen to it, an employer looks to you why hire the person who now possibility hay a health risk? they look at it, but it could be one pound overweight, and the military discharged him, no obesity as you see it, someone who could be a threat to their employment.

>> i am an officially documentedded homosexual in the united states of america. i would like to note that many veterans from the vietnam era now reaching the age where they desperately need va benefits may have received a less than honorable discharge for being gay back in the day. they probably did not care a lot at the time, but now they need the services from the va, and getting the discharges upgrated is a very serious problem for someone who is facing immediate health problems that they can't get into the va to get the services they need. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i have three questions. i'll start with mr. ingram. regarding the issue of discharge upgrade, i'm very interested in

that, in part for the republicans you identified and also in part because in a prior hearing that this commission undertook with regard to women and some men in the military subjected to military-related sexual trauma and the fact those people, at least allegedly, many of them are dpises charged under less than honorable circumstances and end up being depriveed of benefits otherwise entitled, and many of the advocates urged upon us some examination of streamline discharge upgrade as a way of making right something that has been terribly wrong. i'm wondering if you could be

more specific about how a process like that could be streamlined. what would it take for it to be both practical and fair to those improperly classified, and fair to the military such that their authority to make these classifications that should not be undually undermind? >> that is a difficult question to answer. the process is inside the military, and even if you engage leet health to get the discharge upgraded, there's little experience outside groups like service members legal defense network who are having a lot of

experience in working with that. there's little experience of getting civilian lawyers to work with a process inside the military. my recommendation is that you would remove that process from the military and put it outside of the military where average citizens and attorneys would have much more access to the process. >> can i add to that, ma'am? >> please. >> if i may, from a personal note, even coming out the military and then coming, trying to apply for a benefit, a disability benefit, i was denied three times. once i had other employment, i was able to access insurance of my own where i was able to go through another doctor, and that

doctor was able to produce that evidence and i could grant appeal with the attorneys, and now i was able to receive the benefits that was due. that still hasn't happened today. that process, if we don't identify or make this transitional assistance program so that it has to be an intervention, intervention to be linked to preventive services, once it's in the military, it's the department of defense and civil authorities -- oh, so sorry, civil authorities do not work together and go back to the military to get the required documents. i have to go back.

you're actually doing civil and human harm to the individual who already is in a traumatic position. >> so would it be your recommendation that the presumption be in favor of the applicants, and then there would be the burden on the military to demonstrate otherwise? do you have a remedy. >> i'm saying that everything identified with the soldier, well, let me stop. once you violated someone's human rights and civil rights, it should no longer be the responsibility of the united states military to handle that case because it's not going to be handled fairly. it should automatically be moved. that's number one. number two, there has to be an intervention program. something has to be put inside of the military component to ensure that everything that veteran needs to produce whatever claim they need when they come out should be duly begin before they leave the

military. the traditional assistance program can want be an option. cannot be too much long. it has to be a minimum. you been in the military ten years, it's going to take you more than one year to transition out. you're going to miss. you're going to fall into loops. it has to be mandatory, and everything with that veteran has to come with that veteran when they come out. >> thank you. >> finally, this issue of rebalancing the long term care system is absolutely one of the most crucial issues it seems to me facing to do justice by votes who become severely disabled as a result of the military service. the wounds that people incur are

in need, and they always need care providers for as long as they live with some of these disabilities that they've incurred as a result of military service. how would you improve the rebalancing effort? i think that's key. i had in my own family, the brother was a quadriplegic. you know, these are not reversible conditions. it's a lifetime of needs that has to be you sign up for the military, the military signs up to committing to you for your --

>> we have to make sure veterans are educated about what is available to them so that they understand what the programs are. they understand they may go into a facility and ask someone, you know, would you like to live in the community, but don't help you figure out how to do that, and you think, well, i'm here, and, i guess i would like to, but i'm not sure what the process. the civilian sector as well with medicaid and rebalancing because more people want services in their homes opposed to having to go to a facility. i know the gentleman who's the chair of the board, a quad, has been a quad for over 40 # years, and he says they'll drag him out

feet first to some facility. he's been very independent for someone disabled for a number of years, and i think that, you know, having and understanding that we're not talking about -- well, we'll get rid of the systems we'll have and people fall through the cracks, but we have to transition to systems that really do meet the needs of people, not just -- oh, well, fine, we won't have the facilities anymore, and good luck to everyone trying to get your needs met, that we really do have to make the transition of having the programs, having them funded, and at the highest levels of the va. you know, looking at what is happening in the per vision of long term services and supports. there's a long term care commission that supposed to be happening at the federal level, senator rockefeller had that put into some legislation earlier this year, and we have been very

interested in well, and many of the families are going to the same situations that other families are going through, and sometimes we become so siloed, a word used earlier today, that we don't really look at what's happening in each of the system and how can we benefit to what's learned and what are the states doing with rebalancing, and, yes, it's the med decade program and a different system, but what's learned that could be applied to other types of systems and other types of care. i know younger people grow up with sibility disabilities where they went to school with people with disabilities, and it's not, you know, you have 5 right and and expectation that you're going to be shun to live

someplace and have a life there. nose -- those are things we recommend, and thank you for your attention to that. >> now that you're here -- >> i don't have anything right at the moment. >> any other commissioners? >> chairman, if i could -- >> yes. >> -- expand on what heather had to say. you know, the military has been doing a really good job in the cap program -- >> explain that program. >> it's a transition assistance program that, you know, when i was in the service, it was, like, give me a sheet of paper, go down, make sure that i've

turned in the lawn mower, hose, at housing, things like that, but today they are doing more stuff, makeing sure you get a good physical, dental, you know, and that type of stuff, but what wendy was saying, we need to somehow, you know, and i don't know where you blur the lines of the department of defense and the da and some of the other military service organizations that would come in to help, you know, if you have an individual gap, when they leave the base,

he is and his family are ready for him to move in and to go into everyday society. you know, the same thing with those individuals that have ptsd. there's not a lot of real qualified individuals to deal with ptsd is my understanding, but, you know, we're putting them out on the streets, and those with ptsd and psychological issues that their only way, if they are eligible eligible -- get on addictive drugs or learn to self-medicate

with bud, jose, jim, you know, those types of guys, and so there has to be a way to diffuse the military's last touch to the soldiers. you know, we have to allow service organizations and the va into that little part of the soldiers' life because, you know, the -- he's an armyman, he's in the active duty, and then he becomes a veteran. somehow there needs to be some sort of an actual transition to bring in the veterans, the va system, into the dod system. >> inside of my testimony, i think you have a briefing, but inside the testimony outlines the type of programs that he's describing and one that i would suggest as an initiative. it's an intervention program

that links with the transitional program and offers a preventative component once they become veterans. itst the department of defense and the veteran administration, so there is a model that describes inside of the full testimony that i provided. >> commissioner? >> anybody on the panel, i believe, this is probably directed at you. what i have found is the difficulty is that the va, after discharge, determining mostly menial issues and finally deciding on treatment for the servicemen. i've seen many cases, nine to 12 # months before they make a determination that this is your diagnosis let alone trying to

get you into a program for 30 years now, since like, 1980. they just really started back then a couple ptsd program, one in seament, one on the east coast, and now there's many more, but what is your organization's experience regarding the lack of, you mentioned lack of people on the outside. i'm that's just private practitioners you were referring to, but within the va there's groups and length of time in making the determination and the length of time of getting people in treatment, what -- can you give us app idea of how long that is, and if any problems result from it?

there was a meeting on the 16th, and here he had been since 2011, 2010 where he was chaptered, and as soon as he went to the media, you know, now the va says, no, that had nothing to do with it, but -- >> i understand antedotal stories, but i'm trying to get a sense, and i know it takes a long time, but you all are in touch with these vets every day, so -- >> what we've done until we can get them the services at the va, we partnered with other community based organizations. that's why it's so important that the va not omit community based organizations so you have to take access to get them access to the programs, so, for example, in new york, last veterans of social justice partnered with steinway services that deals with ptsd, military

sexual trauma, integrating families back in with these various illnesses that members come back home with. they're based on a sliding scale fee or because of the income, they might not require fees so you're providing intervention to them until you can get them to the va, and then they are not just passed off to the va. they have to be weaned. you know, they still have services with a family still receiving their fair the community based program, and the veteran goes through more expensive treatment. one thing i have to add, we're having a problem, especially with women veterans now because we have a lack of those service providers in the va that can deal with cold curing illnesses meaning i have ptsd that stems from my msd. you have to have those individuals. what we tried too is link them to civilian services, trying to get medicaid or something of

that nature to tie them into some sort of mental health until we can get them to where they need to be. >> so what i understand is what you just said is actually -- i thought about this -- the va, once the vet is accepted into treatment say for ptsd or whatever you have mentally, do they -- they don't bring the families in -- >> no. >> in other words, families receive separate treatment outside the va. in other words, the treatment is no cohesive? >> no, because the veterans, the dependents are not entitled to service. >> right. >> it's imperative you keep the link with the veteran in the community so that way the integration process between the families, the reunification process with the families, how do i deal with the individuals and stay together? >> dod doesn't pay? >> no. if it was diagnosed when they were in the department of

defense, the veterans' family was then covered urn there, but once they separate, they are not, and then it even makes a deeper separation in the family so you have -- >> retires veterans are a different story? >> totally different. >> right. >> the va does allow family members to come in for counseling together as a family if they are married and their marriage is recognized. i would like to add while i have been sitting in the chair this morning, two veterans committed suicide. >> that's right. >> one of them was a vietnam veterans. one of the best practices that my organization does is to pair a recent returning veteran from the overseas with an older veteran such as, particularly a vietnam veteran who faced some of these same challenges, alcoholism, drug abuse, ptsd,

and has overcome them. that is the most powerful thing that can be done for a young returning veteran dealing with ptsd is to let them talk with someone who has ben there and that has experienced that pain and overcome it. that is the very best thing that we can do, and i would hope that the va would try to develop a program of pairing such as that because as we all know, there's nothing like talking with someone who has been in the same place and has overcome those challenges. >> commissioner? >> i'll yield. >> one thing if i may. >> doctor, please -- >> sorry, what else has to happen is the services they have and the service you describe, the peer service, they have that in new york city, but they only

have it -- i'm going to go out in new york city. the services have to be acumen acumencal across the board. there's services in georgia, but no in new york. services in other states have to be accessible. >> accessibility is a huge issue. >> it's a huge issue. >> commissioner? >> i just have a very quick question for mr. ingram. you mentioned the problem of vellet nawm vets separated on account of the sexual orientation, not receiving medical benefits. dupe of any legislation and efforts to pass legislation to correct that? >> i do not know of any efforts to change that upgrade process. i do know of efforts currently in congress who look at the window of when someone comes out

of the military and identifies some sort of problems that you have such as ptsd. there's a five year window when they come out of the military so identify the issue, they are put at the front of the line to get that sort of assistance right away. if it is after that five-year period, for something like ptsd, then they have to wait a long time before they can access services, and that's for veterans in general, but that is something that needs to change. the world world war ii veterans experience ptsd for the very first time in their live, and now they want to go to the va to get help with it and waiting a long time, and we need to take care of those people right away. >> commissioner? >> okay. >> if i could make a comment on that last statement. i do know for a fact it's true.

>> uh-huh. >> okay. any other questions? if not, i'll end with question i asked the last panel is, if there was one -- i know we already made some really solid proposed recommendations to us, but in addition to what you suggested or perhaps what you suggested would be one primary recommendation that you make to us that we could then ultimately support and make to the president and congress on the issues we discussed today, what would that recommendation be? >> from the vets' perspective, one of the things we really want to highlight is the need to provide information to separating service members about the americans with with the disabilities agent, and there's legislation pending before congress right now saying this type of information is needed.

the transition assistance program recently went on a redesign and the informational materials continue to omit daibility even though a significant number of transitioning service members have disabilities. we know this, and yet we have been unable to get more than -- and i'm not exaggerating, more than just a couple sentences in the information that talk about these needs, and really that not only looks at getting your first job, but also retention and your second and third job as was made a comment earlier. we're talking about, in many cases, lifelong issues. many of our aging veterans who are wheelchair users are now aging people with disabilities who are losing the functions that they regained, not just this time because of disability,

but because of age. they continually face this every time they are seeking a new job or other any opportunities. you're not just going to have one job or one career in your lifetime, and so we really need to make sure people have these tools, and we just need the assistance of the commission and anyone else that will weigh in that we have got to make this connection for service members regarding that the rights and responsibilities that they have available to them. >> okay. >> chairman, it's -- all my recommendations would be very, very difficult to put into place because i'm sure the department of defense would not want to give up any of their control or authority over their soldiers so i would just -- i would withhold any of any recommendations. >> ms. mcclinton? >> i recommend there be funding

produced to community based organizations so that they can assist with the servicing of special classes with regard to veterans and also to their family members so that we can continue to help them in the transition spue -- into civilian life. >> mr. ingram? >> if the american people have to pay taxes until their eyes bleed to take care of our veterans who are returning, we must do that, and, of course, what i want to tell you to do is repeal doma. if the supreme court doesn't do it, then congress needs to do it, the president needs to do it, but these families need all of the help that they can get to be a good family, to be a good service member, repeal doma. >> well, thank you, all, again for being here today, and it's very helpful and informative,

and we appreciate the participation today. if there's additional information to send to us after this, we welcome that. we're going to adjourn. this briefing for the moment, and we are going to take a brief break at 12:30, and we'll start this portion of the business meeting that relates to the stand your ground consideration, we will then break for lunch and return at 1:30 break to start panel three. thank you. we'll take a five minute break, commissioners. [inaudible conversations]

[inaudible conversations] >> okay, so we are now reconvening our briefing. welcome back, everyone. welcome to folks who have arrived since we went op our break. this is the u.s. commission on civil rights briefing on the question of whether the federal government is adequately protecting the civil rights of our veterans and service members who fought for our rights. for those of you who were not here earlier this morning, i'll explain a couple housekeeping things. first of all, if there's anyone in the audience that requires the use of a sign language interpreter, please, let our staff know. we have one available. if you do need one, we'll continue to provide one. if not, then we will not. secondly, each panelist, and i'll introduce them shortly, will have seven minutes to make an initial prosecution before we, as commissioners, begin to

provide our questions. there's lights here, green, yellow, red. green starts, yellow, wrap up, and red, please conclude. commissioners will then have opportunities to ask questions, and you can elaborate more on things you didn't cover in the remarks. with that said, i want to introduce the pammists. the first is the united states army major, second panelist is sandra strictland with final solution inc, and the third panelist is richie, the chief medical office with the department of mental health. our fourth panelist is the directer for disabled american veterans, and now that yo are seated, please swear or affirm that the information you are going to present to us today is true and correct to the best of

your knowledge and belief; is that correct? >> yes. >> thank you. major, please proceed. >> i'm thankful to the u.s. commission on civil rights for providing me this opportunity today. i also applaud the commission for seeking to protect civil rights of those who, like me, proudly served and have served the military of our great nation. my name is major, born into a family with three generations of military service before me and raised to cherish the core values of our army. i began my career in the u.s. army as a first lieutenant in 2001. i continue to serve with tremendous pride as an ems director at fort brag, and after two deployments, i'm the grateful recipient for the bronze star for service in afghanistan, but my journey to service had a share of challenges. in 2009, the u.s. army made history by granting me an

accommodation to maintain my turbine, by beard, and unshaved hair while serving the country i loved, first time in over a generation a new american soldier was granted such an accommodation. at first,ives told i couldn't serve my country unless i gave up my articles of faith. because of the u.s. military policy that existed since 1981. led my the coalition, took over 15,000 petitioners, and over 15 members of congress to request my accommodation. in considering my request for accommodation, army officials asked smart and pragmatic questions about the faith. they learned that sikhs have a rich history of military service throughout the world tieded to our articles of faith and learned that sikhs wear helmets and make airtight seals with our gas masks.

my fellow soldiers and command supported me throughout this journey. on my first day of active duty in basic training, the sergeant assembled us in formation, pulled me out to stand next to him, and told us all that the army comes in different shades of green. he then asked if there was a single soldier mongs the hundreds assembled there that day who did not feel the same way. this was the first test of unit cohesion that i encountered, and everyone, everyone applauded in support. after training, i deployed to afghanistan as the officer in charge of the er in helmand province and served as chief of disaster medicine for our entire forward operating base. during the sture, i was treated to 750 combat casualties, local nationals suffering from ied

blasts, gunshot wounds, and other emergent conditions, and i also successfully resuscitated back to life two patients clinically dead pop arrival, but i remember one particular soldier whose story i'd like to share with you today. let's call him joe. they radioed in they bringing in a marine from the ied blast outside the main gates. they took advantage of a recent dust storm to bury ieds all around us, and they rushed them into the er tent. he was breathing, but bleeding badly from multiple shrapnel wounds, dazed, but able to convert. we worked on him for the next two hours, and as joe was wheeled away, he grabbed my arm, sobbing, and look the at me with bloodshot blue eyes saying,

thank you, brother, i will never forget that moment. i tell you with 1100% insurance they could care less i was wearing a beard treating their wounds, and all that mattered is that whether i was an asset to the mission. like me, the second sikhs to be accommodated served in afghanistan receiving a medal for service, and in 2010, the u.s. army agreed to accommodate soldiers in lamba, and together, the three of us are the only new sikh americans that our military has agreed to accommodate in a generation. both captain resident specialists agree our sikhs's articles of faith do not interview with the duties, and, are, in fact, an invaluable

asset to the military projecting the core values of freedom and diversity to the world. i've been in active duty since 2010, currently the medical director for dod's largest state side ems system compromised of over 500 first responders. while i'm grateful for the opportunity to serve, it troubles me that the accommodation and that of other sikhs are simply individual accommodations. despite the service of myself, specialist mamba, rule remains that sikh americans cannot serve the military without giving up the articles of faith. i ask those received thus far are not permanent. despite the service and loyalty, we must reapply for an accommodation each and every single time we are assigned to a new unit or a base.

i have to make clear i never advocate for anything that put fellow soldiers in harm's way. if sikhs couldn't wear hell helmets or gas masks when required, i never call upon the military to accommodate the soldiers, but this just simply isn't the case. sikhs have served on special forces teams, jumped out of airplanes as troopers, and they served in far forward combat operations. we have to be embraced and allow

ltgb solderriers to serve and female serves in far forward combat positions, and the sky has not fallen. we are increasing the pool of americans willing to serve the country, advancing our strategic mission, and true to the core american principle it matters not who you are, but what you do. in closing, quote from a letter that america's first general george washington wrote to a jewish congregation. president washington wrote that america gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution, no assistance, requires that they who live under its protection should demean themselves as good citizens in giving it on all occasions their effectual support. pay try yachtic americans are ready to give support, and i humbly plead for the military to accept it. thank you. >> honor to have you here.

>> there's safe housing for veterans and their chirp, the president and founder of the organization is jackson boots. they served the country honorably, years after separating the military, i fell on hard times. i don't have ptsd, no mental illness or anything of the sort. life happened, and i fell on hard times. we have to reach out to the veteran's administration. when i reached out, i didn't receive the response expected. they were more concerned about the mental capacity, whether i

would do harm to myself or others, and i was baseically looking for preventive resources to prevent becoming homeless. i was giving, told i could, you know, give me a list of shelters. i could have done that myself looking at the yellow pages. when i explained to them my employment situation, they told me to go to the unemployment office. as a veteran, having served my country honorably, i just felt that if i was given this information and being treated this way, well, what other veterans would be experiencing as well? i reached out to the community, and that's basically when i came in contact with the organization. from someone who basically experienced being op the verge of becoming homeless and not having a disability, if you will, i just don't see that there are resources or programs

out there for a veteran who doesn't have a date or who doesn't have ptsd or msd. you know, where do we go for assistance? there are those organizations that do provide assistance, but they are not given the federal grants needed to help more veterans in my situation. i did have the opportunity to speak on the senate panel back in march, and they were dressing the issue of ending homelessness among veterans by 20 # 15. at that time, they focused on female homeless veterans. that number has not decreased. it's increasing. female veterans we have unique needs apart from the male veterans that are facing homelessness or that are homeless. some of the programs that are

offered are not suitable for females because, you know, they want to place you in housing that's just not suitable for your children, not even suitable for them to live in, but because they have a veteran title, you know, they're thinking that, you know, they are doing something for a vellet ran. they give us what we think we want. i don't see it as an issue as addressed properly because there are gaps within the system so, you know, my part, as far as speaking on the panel is to bring awareness to the group of veterans who don't have disabilities or mental illnesses, who basically experience life falling on hard times trying to prevent becoming homeless. when we reach out, there are no programs for us.

if we continue to dig deep, we run into community based organizations, but then those organizes can't fully help us because they don't have the funds to do so. >> thank you. appreciate it. >> yes, i'm third generation military and a veteran. i'm a retired army psychiatrist, and that's the perspective to share, and i work with people homeless, veterans, people who slipped through the cracks. i wanted to talk a little bit about the so-called signature wounds of war, post-traumatic stress disorder, traumatic brain injury, but i want to emphasize there's physical wounds going along with those. the blast is a signature weapon of the war and the blast has caused amputations, which you

hear a lot about, but it causes a lot of other injuries like facial disfigurement, hearing loss, and many of the veterans who have been wounded have a combination of physical wounds, psychological wounds, pain, and disability, and we sometimes forget about the pain and disability, and part of the reason i want to highlight it is i believe that's underlooked risk factor for suicides which is also at an alarming rate. we've known about the high suicide rate for a while. the military is certainly trying to do everything it can, and there's been a lot of interventions put in place; however, the suicide rate is alarmingly high. it was about 349 completed suicides last year, one a day as "time" magazine put it. what we have to do is look at the barriers in care that we have, and pass care that service members and veterans are willing to go to.

by and large, our evidence based treatments, that is ones proven in research studies to work. young men and young realm dot-com -- women don't like going to them. medication that works for ptsd has a lot of side effects, sexual side effects, anybody don't like sexual side effects, and other psychotherapies, exposure therapy is an evidence based one, and that takes 15-20 treatment, and our young men and women don't like talking to anybody about what's going on or like walking into the front door of the health clinic, and worse the army substance abuse clinic. we have to do more to bring treatment to them. why is this important? because without treatment, many of our folks do slip out and fall through the cracks. about 20-30% of combat deployed veterans have post-traumatic stress disorder, depression, or

a variant. it's a large number. there's places where they have wonderful treatment going on. here in the washington area, we have the national interpret cementer of excellence, waledder reid, all kinds of therapies. go to fort hood, fort brag, marine posts, it's tough to get in the door, or if you do get in the door, it's two months before your next appointment. people slip through. they get discharged from the military, and they end up with either little benefits or no benefits. some of them do get benefits, and so it's not across the boferred they don't get them, especially if they physically are wounded, but then they have a great deal of problems getting to the va, even if they have benefits. you mentioned some of the difficulties that you had. it's a tough system to penetrate. i want to say a word about treatments that are not yet evidence based, but i find very

promising, which is treatments that soldiers will go to treatment for. some of the newer ones that i've written, talked about a bit, acupuncture, yoga, mindfulness, ones we don't have trials on, but soldiers like them, soldiers, marines, other service members. i'll talk less about the va system because i know it less, and you did have a long discussion about it this morning, but there are disperties in the va system, and the main one you see is if you don't live near a va medical center, it's hard. now, again, i think the va is addressing this. they have programs in rural health department, but both the military and the va system are very, very strange and stretched. once specific area i want to stress is we know about why people kill themselves in the military. we have data on every suicide since 2001, and i can give you the numbers. we know little about why

veterans kill themselves, why veterans no longer are on active duty, and the understanding is there's a two-man office trying to tackle this. you can't have effective suicide prevention programs unless you know why people are killing themselveses. is it homelessness? is it the mortgage? it it relationship problems? in the active military, we know it's relationship problems and getting in trouble at work, and the addition of pain and disability that i mentioned before when you look at the suicides, the real risk factors. i think there needs to have back to your two presentations. the military has really moved in the last few years. women have been in combat forever. i have three different combat patches myself. they finally removed the combat exclusion rule, and i've. in the front line of somalia, iraq, carerra, other places, but

we have to accept diversity, and we've done that recently with the repeal of the don't ask, don't tell. it's a great step forward to exclude those not op the basis of their religious apparel. i wanted to come back to you. your point as a female veteran, the va says it's no long r your father's va, but it's still jr. father's va. it's shard to get treatment for any of the, say, ob/gyn problems. they don't know how to do that. i would think they are stretched. i wouldn't say they are not trying, they are trying hold, but they need a nudge to ensure the va is open to female veterans, that the va is open to gay and lesbian veterans, and that the military in general is open to everybody who will serve and serve honorably.

thank you very much. >> thank you. >> thank you, mr. chairman, members of the commission. first, let me say that the veterans community is acutely aware of the fact that va programs have been spared basically over the last ten years while the rest of the federal government has taken big hits, cuts in the budget, or budgets that don't even meet inflation, va has grown by 11%. we are aware of that. up fortunately, we're not meeting the needs of vellet rans, be a government willing to send men and women in harm's way, but when they come home and need benefits and care, we nickel and dime the programs. overall, the president's fy2014

increase for the federal spending, increase is by about 2 #.5% of the budget. va, total funding is increasedded by about 10.2%. that's both discretionary and mandatory, and discretionary side, majority is health care, the increase is about 4.3%; however, congress and the administration are required by law to look at the health care budget a year in advance so for 2015, we know what they are looking at, and right now, it's only a 19% increase -- i'm sorry, a 1.9% increase above the 2014 levels, which is less than projected for private sector medical inflation. the administration's budget overall in discretionary funding

is about 2.1 billion dollars below what the independent budget, and that's a document coauthored by pav, and also their health care budget for 2014 is roughly 2-- sorry, $1.2 billion below our recommendations, and very more troubling is that construction is $1.1 billion below what we believe necessary, and the veterans organizations are concerned about the budget proposal for construction and infrastructure, maintenance. the va's strategic capital investment planning process estimates va needs between $21

billion and $25 billion over the next ten years to maintain va's existing infrastructure, and that's roughly about 1-- 2.1 to 2.5 billion annually; however, funding requests for major construction projects have fallen from 1.5 billion in fiscal year 2008 to 1.1 billion in fiscal year 2011 to just 342 million proposed for fy2014. making this situation even worse is the fact that recently the congressional budget office has determined that va's long term leases could no longer be looked at on a per year basis. in the past, the lease was going to cost $20 million over 20 year, and va only had to come up with $1 million the first year and each year thereafter. now they require congress to come up with the funding and

administerings to come up with the funding for the full 20 years of the lease. notwithstanding the fact that the va can get out of the lease at any given time. last year, we saw about 15 projects that weren't approved by congress because they couldn't come up with the 1.5 billion necessary. we're looking at another 32 projects over the next two years which affect 22 states which means that veterans are going to be denied health care if va cannot expand their programs. dav is also opposed to, and i think most veteran service organizations are to what the president's proposing with the changed cpi reducing the cost of living adjustment for social security which impacts veterans' disability. you know, veterans would be affected twice by that if they come into effect, those already

collecting social security, we see that amount dwipped -- dwindle, because compensations go down, and they are the only beneficiaries rounded down to the nearest whole dollar. the backlogs. it's a major problem. you can't pick up a newspaper or get anything online without looking -- hearing about the backlog in for decades, the veterans service organization told the va, the administration, and congress what needs to be done. the backlog is not the problem. it's a symptom of the problem. the problem is the fact that va hadn't be doing proper training of the employees. they had no quality review in place. they failed to have accountability for those decisions. the employee levels weren't at the level they should be, and

they were working a paper claim instead of paperless. va is starting to move in the right directions. i heard an analogy by craig who likened it to driving around in the car the last two decades with the check engine light on and nobodydoing anything until now. most are satisfied with the leadership at va, believed to be moving in a right direction, moving to paperless claims process, better training, quality review teams in all the areas, and so we think va is heading in the right direction. we would hope they get there a little sooner than they have been, but we are hopeful that in the near future there's better results, and with that, i'll be happy to answer any questions. >> thank you. i'll open and then take questions from my colleagues.

major, what would you say, obviously, we want to shine a light on this. when i learns sikh-americans could not serve, i was appalled. it was raised to me by the coalition, e and i just couldn't believe in this day and age and country, we are still banning folks from serving our country based on religion, and i understand it's a historic issue. you're one of the exceptions, but hopefully our highlights this addresses some of that, but what do you think we can do as a commission to help change this situation? >> well, well, thank you for having me here today, and just asking the question and highlighting the issue is a huge step in the right direction. i mean, for the most part, i mean, after 9/11, we really felt the bankrupt of --

brunt of the some of the backlash of the community. a lot of folks didn't even know who sikhs were. that's part of the problem is, you know, we are really not recognized as app entity in this country, and so in trying to step into roles and being accepted as an equal within the military or other parts of the government, i think a lot of that, a lot of what we could do is education, and educating folks about sikhs, about diversity, about incollusion, and how -- reminding us, reminding americans and our neighbors that this is what this country was founded upon. when the first came here to the

united states, they were looking for religious freedom. these are our roots, and so that is all we're looking for, and like you mentioned, we have a long and storied tradition of military service. you know, at one point, we were a third of india's entire army, only made up 2% of the population, a huge chunk of even the british army so, you know, the issues that the army raised with, you know, wearing the helmet and the gas masks, we had to overcome rather easily, and, you know, i think we've shown that we not only make a good soldier, but we make great soldiers, and that we are, you know, we are willing, ready, and able to serve and look forward to a future when my kids don't have to submit two years worth of coolingses --

accommodations, petitions to serve. >> has there been any formal conversation over negotiation with the military leaders, civilian leadership about undoing this ban, and if so, what's. their response? d what's been their response? >> we've made a lot of headway since we started this effort way back in 2009. it was basically working up through the chain of command, and so it went all the way up to g1 # -- g1, and defense secretary gates at that time who then said, okay, we will grant you an accommodation, but, you know, rereplicated that now, two more times, and it is, you know, and we really appreciate it, and i've really loved serving, and i loved being op active duty. i love what i do, but it falls

short of the policy change that we need in order for all of us to serve freely, so we are in cop -- constant touch with members of the military and dod and trying to greece the wheels on this issue, and, you know, everybody has a lot of very important things going on, but i will tell you that, if i could speak on behalf of the community of sikhs, there's really no other issue nearer and dearer to our hearts. i mean, i come from three generations in military being the fourth now, not being able to serve really strikes at the heart of our citizenship and our ability to say that, hey, we really are a part of this country. >> i'll ask you one more question and send it to the colleagues. do you know of any other americans who are not allowed to serve in our arm forces because

of their religion? other than the sikhs's community? >> to my knowledge, sir, i do not know of any other religious groups that are presumptivively discolluded based on their articles of faith. >> commissioners, would you like to ask anything? >> thank you very much. i wanted to ask some questions. in our previous pam, i was trying to mine for data on the issue of what our commission is concerned about, which is protected classes, the ethnicity, gender, disability, ect., and the one thing that you brought up that was startling to me, i sort of was vaguely aware, but not really aware of the suicide rate among veterans, and

in -- you said there were two -- i will not ask you because you wouldn't know anything in terms of demographics, but in terms of active military, which i presume you have some fairly detailedded knowledge of, was it sort -- was the suicide rate basically across the board? was there anything -- any disportionalty in terms of women, minority, gay, lgbt soldiers committing suicide while in the active military? >> yes, i can address thatment one small point that i'll make, i, first of all, i go by colonel or doctor. >> thank you. >> so we know a lot about suicided in the military, and in general, the bulk is in young males, especially caucasian male, and relatively rare in females, although it does happen. it's happening more in older people now, especially with

accumulation of age and disability, and by older in the military, i mean 45, 50. we do not know about gay and lesbian suicides because that's not been recorded as an element when the forms are filled out, the report is done, so i can want tell you 10% of military suicides were homosexual. we do suspect that the concealing one's identity contributed to both substance abuse, depression, and suicide, and there were a number of cases that i reviewed that i suspected were homosexual, but back in that era of don't ask, don't tell, i was not going to put that down op any form because it could have either suicide attempt where you could interview the person who could have major implications causing somebody to be discharged. in brief, it's a question about

sexuality and mental health that we don't have good answers to now. >> thank you. >> i just want to say to the major, i -- we began reading the pammists statement. i had no awareness, i'm ashame to say, that members of the sikhs faith were not permitted to i mean, it's absolutely astoppishing. there's no legitimate rationale this grievance has not been readdressed, but i accept your ashurnses, -- assurance, and hopefully our

commission can shed some light on that issue. ms. strictland, the particular plight of the female veteran, could you talk a little bit more about the particular situation that female veterans find themselves in, specifically related to their family status and other issues that may apply to them, particularly issues that the va is less familiar with than other issues and pointers you might give us about things that they should be looking at to better accommodate particular needs of female veterans. >> to address your question, just to comment made about

services and it's still predominantly male oriented. they are not geared to address or, you know, provide the services that females need, the unique services that females need. from the homelessness perspective, i speak to that because i basically lived that of the it's just not set up for -- to provide services for females that have children. i can't address it from the stand point of just a single female because i have children, but when they have the services or resources they refer you to, the programs that out there are not suitable for females with children. either they can provide the

assistance to the female, but not the children so we're a package deal. >> sure. >> you know, they come in tow so i don't feel there are enough programs out there to assist female veterans with children to be able to prevent the homelessness. there are programs out there that i feel that kind of put a band-aid on the situation opposed to finding the core issue as to why the person became hopeless. as i said, you know, the programs i dealt with on, there were programs that were basically telling me this is what we give you opposed to sitting me down and asking me what is it that you need? i feel that instead of vying resources and programs that fix

the issue, if you will, provide services and resources that can prevent, and i don't think we have new programs like that. >> and health grants to community based organizations that can better address what the female veterans really need opposed to the perception of what you might need? >> exactly. >> is that part of the recommendation? >> colonel? >> if i could add to that, if i could comment to the military women while deployed. there's a lot of attention paid to combat. there's not enough attention paid to the health needs of military women while deployed, and this is just both your basic batroom issue, is there enough port potties in iraq that are clean because if a woman is not able to have a clean bathroom, things like that embarrass the

men here in the room, i realize that, they are likely to have urinary tract infections, get dehydrated, managing menstruation in the field, these are all issues that can be handled fairly easily with education, and if you talk about it, but if you don't talk about them and, especially if there's a couple young women who are the only women in the unit trying to figure it out for themselves, it's setting them up for failure. unfortunately, i wrote about this after i was stationedded in somalia many years ago, unfortunately, there was a recent task force looking at issues in afghanistan now, and i think it was probably a year and a half ago, and many have the same issues that are still out there, so people tend to focus on women in combat, but a lot of it is just about the basics of bathrooms. >> uh-huh. it's a kind of quiet discrimination, if you will. >> it is. ..

>> from the standpoint of

disabled veterans are you able to get data from various federal agencies about how many people applying who are veterans for research tear program are disable the, etc.? are you able to track any data to let you know, whether or not the folks you represent our having their needs met by different agencies? i know you are worried by it in terms of employment and housing are you able to get your hands on statistics to analyze how will they are treated in the system? >> other than how they are treated by va they keep good statistics on the breakdown but we don't get other information from federal

agencies that is helpful little to attract those issues. >> are there any agencies that frustrate you because you would like to know with the process through that. >> unfortunately the only way we become aware is when the members reach out to tell us about the problems but normally because of the problems we had in the past we don't even attempt to do with any more. it is useless. >> commissioner? >> i think this is for mr. violante is on the topic with the already strained the a budget doesn't farmout any medical services for very specialized service to private medical providers?

it jokers to me the more diverse the population becomes the more it will be and there will be more small specialized problems for those non veterans as well. >> va has the authority and if you need care for your service meeting contract that carry out under certain circumstances. they have the ability to contract health care and special care in the unfortunate thing is they don't do it all the time when they should be and as you mentioned comet it is a strain. cahow if you think of the

budget as a pie is a nice piece but if you include everybody else in their remit is a sliver that is what happens to the budget the more they contract out the more the cost and then they have to ration care within the system. until a government gives be a sufficient funding to do what is necessary. >> but the things that saved them money will cost them more money. >> and not know if they are doing that. >> repassing congress to do more oversight to make sure that teeeight is properly spending their money i spend a lot of time for lobbying congress but it doesn't help my members. >> we heard about two months ago testimony on the issue

of sexual trauma in the course of military aid to be primarily from women nonexclusive the. in heard practice now or formerly did you become an all familiar with that issue? and then women who's suffered from ptsd the origins of which with this trauma and you have familiarity? >> sexual assault is a tremendous problem. in my practice sexually eyes

on me and the people who did not want to report it because they were worried of their career and if they did it that the and line negative they themselves that i cannot stay here any longer and then they were discharged. the reason the statistics have come now to is alarming in terms of the number of assaults in the under reporting. there is a lot of people reporting the middle come in for treatment because they are worried of confidentiality of medical records. i saw people coming in for a depression, ptsd and m.i.t. merge after they trust you that they were insulted.

another in the year just admiring the problem but you change it so it is not the acceptable to rape your colleagues and it is acceptable to report that you can continue with your career to make it is successful career. all of those have to be tackled. >> commissioner? if you have any questions? >> i do not. >> this is 49. i cannot think of a good way to work this so i will say eppley in the in your search for programs in which you have done did you encounter any issues that were barriers to what you're trying to achieve post to discharge interests of accessing services or benefits because of your

race? >> no. the only issue war barrier is that i didn't have a disability or fit the profile -- profile of ptsd. and basically just fell on hard times. >> and what should be done and ultimately we will prepare a report that test findings and recommendations to go to the president and congress. if you were writing that for us. what was said each of your recommendations be to address the issues?

>> abruptly to allow a complete and unimpeded policy change were the americans can serve freely with in all branches of the military mail or female or lbgt to stand together proudly as americans to support each other with diversity and the values we have been brought up with. >> was just the va partner with community-based organizations for the resources they are not able to provide to assist a veteran. i believe a partnership that would be veterans if they

don't have the resources they should have they you shed refer them because i cannot assist you with this organization can. >> i have 20. [laughter] i will stick to the three. >> e-mail us the other. >> the military talks at a both sides of its mouth seeking help in the sign of strength but if you get mental-health or behavioral health care your penalized by a number of different policies. so the first recommendation is to take a systematic look at the policies that penalize one is you're not allowed to deploy if you have had a change in your psychiatric medication or diagnosis within the last three months. that sounds like a good idea to keep people who were unstable to be on the battlefield but it means in practice that that is how

you get promoted when you deploy and you don't want to go near a psychiatrist or any physician to complain about a mental health issue. and in the navy you cannot carry a firearm including mild antidepressant and a general officer has to sign off on your ability. that kills your career. also what i alluded to but did not talk about that they still ask the dreaded question have you sought counseling? there is some exemptions as a result of combat experience you don't have to say yes but there is a lot of confusion about it if you do check guests usually the security clearance could be delayed by a year in and it is my belief that if you ask

about mental health counseling at all think that adds to the ability to detect a speenine issue activity prepared briefly and the zoo had really good care there was some major disparities some get the cadillac of care matt from ptsd others get there broken-down chevy and get discharged because they don't get better. i will send the other 17 by e-mail. >> something we have talked about over 30 years that has not come about with

electronic systems we have you thank you would be easy to transfer records from the military to the day of the fact that they to get the benefit out of those records to transfer electronically but it is almost useless to the va. but they should that they fully understand the benefits and services are available to them and also part of that there is a big issue of credentials in the military spends billions of dollars trading men and women. those under the most trend is conditions and they cannot step back into a job

or helping in the emergency room but as seamless transition should be something that we can work on and correct to make it easier. >> but we haven't mentioned is good and planet is so important to veterans. some of it is health care and benefits for every really have to do better about translating the military skills stomach and want to thank the chair that is a very educational. when i hear about the stories of my fathers used he spent part of his childhood in the camp because he was japanese-american they decided american citizens

they were not allowed to serve the american mattel -- military intel finally enact of the president's recommendations of others finally got them to what became the most highly decorated unit ever comprised of japanese-americans who before were unable and unfit to serve so in understand the frustration they have so we will see how that does to show how patriotic you

really are true go out there to pay with yeltsin and sacrificing and the ultimate treasure but it is not the most highly decorated unit ever but also the highest casualty rate ever in battle history a and it suffered three or four times more casualties than there were people in the unit. it is horrible to think about that is how you demonstrate how much you love your country through dogged perseverance and then i looked at the military and think these people want to serve and how to be an american and what it is about. >> just one quick comment. may have americans from the early 1900's and beautiful

pictures 86,000 said serving in the allied forces in world war i and world war ii that is a lot of blood sweat and tears. thank you for the informative panel. the first a few acknowledgments. and that the civil-rights commission thank you for putting this together margaret. [applause] but now they will distill all this information and i will think pam and her staff for organizing the physical logistics of us being here today. [applause]

lastly i want to let everybody know those who will be watching us that for the next 30 days of this record will remain open and panelist will submit written materials office of the general counsel. 1331 pennsylvania avenue washington dc 24 '02 five or e-mail at public comments --. >> it is to 35:00 p.m. and the briefing is adjourned. and then we will start the business meeting.

>> with the attorney general arrange me after the extradition he indicated he wanted the death then tilt -- just penalty when each of the charges, three times. that made me realize how serious it was and again and made me realize it wasn't about me. first of all, i could not be killed three times it was about the construction of this imaginary enemy. >> he was not that interested in what happened

there was not the love story and i chipped away at the people she knew and trusted. and i was able to get them involved and let them see my previous work

>> host: melanie phillips did your just released autobiography guardian angel you write to the question i am constantly asked if i am now on the left or the right, the answer is neither i am simply alfred and mabel's daughter of a jew who believes in the repair of the world in a journalist who believes in speaking truth to power. why did you feel the need to write about being on the right or the left? >> guest: people have pigeonholed on the right or the left and this is silly. life is much more complicated than that. life is not right to left that if they get on with living their life in the best way they can to see the world as it is and what i have done for the lasttheir

quarter century as a i ha journalist is to tell it as i see it to be which means i was trained to look at thens i a facts and the evidence and arrive at a conclusion tell people the facts and the conclusion and a lot of people today thought the other way around that theycts. start with the conclusionlo of and once make the facts fit the conclusion there is a lot of people out there in aere sensible center as a like to think of them who arethof t completely plugged into reality. reality. what are these people telling us? well, so that is part of it. people tend to but that

interdiction has are you left or right? i am neither. >> host: you use of the term follow the all of the evidence in their last two books. >> guest: that is right. sometimes it takes us into places that are uncomfortable. if rightness or perplexes or whatever, but i believe that's what you have to start with. he don't pretend that things are not as they are. you don't try to remake reality is what you think that it should be. and then you tell the truth about it and you reach a conclusion about it. that is what i have always tried to do. >> host: when did you start on the political sector? >> guest: welcome i started my professional life as a local

journalist just kind of out of nowhere. but i came from a modest type of background, there were people on all sorts of the spectrum. the world is divided into this common this was part of it. then i had a fairly conventional experience. in the very early 1970s. i had very long while you're at a the time. and i adopted a kind of attitude that i thought, i never thought of myself as left-wing. i thought of myself as a

middle-of-the-road liberal, kind of middle road, and wanted to make a better world come out wanting to stop being vulnerable and so on. and i went to work for the newspaper that is the very heart of the left-wing media in britain. it worked for about 20 years. what happened at that time i was working for the guardian, possibly because i was working at "the guardian", i still believe in standing up for their role in societies and making a better world and trying to improve the lives of my fellow human beings. but when i came to realize and what i came to realize when i was working there, was that

people who were on my side are not concerned with bettering the lives of their fellow human beings but themselves they were concerned for themselves and thought of themselves as being virtuous and wife. when i realized they were on the other side, they had intolerances despite what they said and they didn't actually care about the people responsible for this. the little people. that is when i realized that we were on a different side of things. as i said, i still think that i believe in things i the things i did believe in. what changed for me is that i came to believe that the people who are on my side when on my

side and it was rather different from what i had originally thought it would be. >> host: your book transcends just published today to my my site right? >> yes, that is correct. they are either guilty about what they're doing because they know what is wrong, or else at some level, at least, they know that there is a position. >> guest: is on the left side of politics. i'm not sure it's quite the same in the united states. but it is the extreme aggression with which they can.political discussions. they don't have an argument. they don't say to me, okay your argument is wrong and this is

why it is wrong. can have that discussion at all. the process is to shut down the argument and shut down the person that they are disagreeing with. it is to tell other people, she is really dangerous, she is really horrible. so we can't actually have an exception from the left. so i have been at this for quite a long time. and it seems to me the reason that people want to shut down a debate before it even starts is because if they were confident, then we would have a civilized collegiate argument. i would say something, you would disagree, but we would actually

have exchanging of our viewers. it seems to be over the years what they are frightened of is that they will lead the argument. they don't have the confidence of their own convictions. i find that very curious. it means that i look at them quite differently as a result. because it is more defensive end we shut down the argument in case they lose it. one might conclude this and what their argument is actually built upon. >> host: in your book, "the world turned upside down: the global battle over god, truth, and power.", you write about the war in iraq, israel, and science and what they have in common.

not a lot, you might say, but they are involved with those who purport to be unchallenged but are in fact ideologies in which evidence is twisted and distorted and the support includes this governing idea. >> guest: the idea that we are living in this world of objective truth has been replaced by ideology. we are in a postmodern age. what that means is sometimes there are objective truths. if you think there is such a big thing, you're not very clever. you say this is the case. i said, no, it is not. but if there are things that are

suggestible to the truth than lies. what has come and is this kind of power. the noticing of truth, everything is relative. i'm going to show you that my view of the world is going to win win over your view of the world. it is a power struggle. all of these ideologies will be seen as though there is nothing that can't be explained by demonstrable empirical ball

evidence. nothing beyond the material world. anything that matters is the greatest number and therefore there is no intrinsic value in human life is what they believe. but people are generally happy. there's a lot of evidence to be more of today's conservative environment -- environmentalism. which says we have man-made global warfare. and you know, there is a bunch of evidence that says that is not necessarily true. but people who believe in these

things, like environmentalism, scientism, they start with a conclusion, they don't start with the evidence. but they say it that the evidence has to be arranged to fit. and there are numerous examples happening to the extent that society becomes intellectually fraudulent. with so-called reputable academics. this is a really terrible thing because it causes confusion that what they are reading and being told and selecting certain facts to build up the idea that this is actually true. it is mind blowing.

and this is part of what i have been applying in the media. ordinary people live lives that correspond to reality. and i found that if i write these things, i get letters from people saying, thank goodness, public spirit is what i have always thought to be the case. and i thought that i was being crazy. it is an extraordinary thing for millions of people have been a part of this but ask, have i

gone crazy? have you gone crazy? part of the public sphere. >> host: during your stint at "the guardian", how lonely that it did at the end? >> guest: i was in charge of the news in the reporting for that for about four years. it was uncomfortable and i was there. because the "the guardian" -- they operated as a family. i have a lot of friends. i have some perplexity to write things, which they couldn't tolerate because there can be no

deviation. you cannot think independently. it makes that a little strange to separate myself from all that. but i was very receptive. it did take a long time to work that out. it was a whole way of looking at the world. including our place in the world. including the divergence between us. so eventually i came to the conclusion that i simply couldn't carry on. and i left. it wasn't very comfortable, but i did have a lot of good friends there and i learned a lot. and "the guardian" is what made me what i am today. we may not like to think that

come apart but they played in my development, but they're very important. >> host: forty right now? >> guest: i write an opinion column for the daily mail. this is influential because it uncannily has an intuitive part of thinking. it represents a robust view of the world. this is part of the guardian and the mail and they are quite opposite in the british media.

when considered on the left and one considered on the right. it has determined this capacity for reflecting the values of the core constituency. and it will be part of the political elite. the daily mail represents little britain and its aspiration of people. >> host: in your book "the world turned upside down: the global battle over god, truth, and power.", the forward is director and playwright david nutt, and he writes that the new religion is secular humanism, which although it lasts logically, it

does contain innumerable sanctions and others. the most unobserved is loud and clear. do not go to church. what do you mean by that? >> it has to do with the fight that i have been involved in although i think that he came to it more recently. i think what he has come to realize is that people particularly on the left of the political divide, the aircraft by ideology which means that they say things that are true, which actually reflect the world as they would like it to be. they are not true.

they don't believe there is such a thing of truth. and that is what we're finding all the time and it has changed the way that we look at the world. >> host: you talk about this and it embodies the freedom of the individual from the negation of the bureaucratic authority in a globalized world, it threatens islam everywhere. >> does not yes. obviously, it preoccupied us more and more. and i do think there is a problem here with the islamic

world. and it's very important to understand and we want to talk about these concerns. many come because they want you to sign up for freedom. they want to prosper. they won't have good jobs. freedom is very important. the women wanted to -- they wanted all the things that we all want. peace and security and prosperity. they are not hung up on these religious precepts. it has been interpreted and which has now been dominant.

the view of the world says that the world has to be remade according to these precepts. where muslims are enjoying freedom, that must be pulled up. there is a lot of conservative interpretation of islam. and it must be brought to this provision and that is what i call an islamism. i understand what they mean. they understand that it's a made-up made up word, but i use it for particular reasons. in order to allow for the fact that their muslims were not extreme, who do want to sign up

for western values, we must acknowledge that. so those are trying their best to impose the islamic doctrine on people and they are trying to impose the most anti-freedom interpretation is religion at its most narrow. so i call those people islamists. they say the whole time with her intention is, to create the islam empire and go beyond that and to conquer britain and america and it's very specific and to impose sharia law, the rule of islamic law upon any way that islamists live. some of them are violent, some

of them reference war and terrorism. many believe that they can conquer the west. the kind of cultural takeover. on the other hand, there are lots of muslims and we must keep in our minds what second set and those who belong to islam who are themselves threatened by the the islamists. which i think we must keep those things in our minds at the same time. and that was about what i perceive to be the case, which was the way in which to my migrate horror and fear, the british ruling class was given

into islamism in this attempt to take over and undermine britain and for a variety of reasons, that is why i wrote this. i was extremely careful about the technology. many find this find this worrying and have nothing to do with this. >> host: were you called a racist after this book came out? >> guest: i think i was branded something because it is a negative epithet that one does not want to use. but people found other ways to

create this in their imagination when it comes to distancing themselves. >> host: you talk about multiculturalism quite a bit. does this affect your view on that reddish society and british politicians? >> i think multiculturalism is one of the most misunderstood people think it must be a good thing because it's all about being tolerant and nice to people well, no, that's if that's all it was, i would be the first to talk about it. it is part of a democratic free society. we should be respectful of differences. including other religions and cultures. all cultures are equal.

therefore it is preferable to any other. what that means for the west if we are truly multicultural, we cannot uphold our core quality for women and someone over those cultures which uphold freedom and tolerance and that is multiculturalism and what it is. but instead we can't talk about that is multicultural. a black child in one case was abused over many years.

the most supporting circumstances. the social workers could not bring themselves to intervene. they said this is their culture. the life and liberty of the rest of us, that is what multiculturalism dead. his white liberals, we can't stand up and say it's wrong to torture a child. or neglected child. that is what multiculturalism is. that is the extent of multiculturalism. it talks about a kind of

paralysis. when you get the boston massacre, the recruitment of young men born in britain, the recruitment of those young men, the islamic radical islam, many say we can't say anything about this because it would be racist in this something that we cannot oppose, freedom or equality or distances. are we really saying that? of course not. so we go through this terrible model. it is what i consider to be the

hijacking of language. most of us believe in freedom and being tolerant and respectful of others. this is not corralled into one political perspective. the language has been kind of hijacked. including justice and compassion, and has been an ideological framework. in one can't use these words without horrible confusion. i would like to see us reclaim

this reclaim what we are trying to say. >> this is where we invite one author to talk about his or her book. the first sunday of the month, a live call-in program. melanie phillips is our guest this month. or they are beginning with a divided house. her book 10 q., "all must have prizes", "the ascent of woman: a history of the suffragette movement", "the sex-change society: feminized britain and the neutered male", and "america's social revolution" came out in 2001. "londonistan: how britain has created a terror state within", we talked about a little bit,

that came out in 2006, and "the world turned upside down: the global battle over god, truth, and power.". that came out of 2011. finally, just today, "the guardian" came out. it is her art autobiography. if you'd like to call in and talk, please call in. go ahead and start dialing in. you can go to our facebook page, facebook.com/booktv. you can make a comment or question. you can also send in a tweet. booktv on c-span.org. who published that?

>> guest: well, it's frightening for me because i published it. i turn myself into a publisher of electronic books. this is going to be a platform not just for me, but for all those who think like me that they connect with reality as well. and the reason for this is, you know, publishing is changing. so many more people have the readers and the capacity to reach so many more people is enormous. so i have formed my own imprint and there are five books are being published this weekend. and i hope that they will bring my view of the world to a very

loud audience. my aim is part of the public domain. it is not easily found because it's not generally published. it's very exciting for me as a journalist. this is how the world ends. i'm just telling you how it is. telling you to get on with it. people have sent me over the years, i'm so glad you're writing what you're writing. but i feel so powerless and my

goodness, there's a lot of social media, the capacity to be bullied on facebook or turned into a bully on facebook. so i said, as a journalist, i can help you, all i can do is tell you what i think is part of this. i'm very sorry you feel this way. there is nothing i can do. but now i have a digital platform and books and stuff it can help people. one of the books and publishing today is a book about headmistress at public schools. and there was a very expensive

school to benefit from her wisdom over a period of time. her wisdom about what we do and how you approach them. >> host: twenty-first century daughter's? >> guest: yes, it the 21st century daughter. a guide for teenage girls. how wonderful that i was able to do that for me, and i never thought i would be able to do that. one of my many aims with this inference is due, where possible, say to people, you don't have to feel quite so hopeless. this is how the world is. you can have a bit of a handle on the things that do were you and perplexed her.

>> host: your e-mail just come over to start come from? >> well, my name is melanie, it starts with a capital letter "in depth -- capital letter m. you can download embooks from my website. there are video letter of intent interviews, books and and a

conversation that i have that i found really fascinating. it is with a playwright. and there is a smash hit broadway comedy. it was a smash hit in london. this is a man of the left. he has written a play in the past about integration. he even became the target of total vilification. and we had a conversation that i will put up on my website in which we discussed this phenomenon. it is difficult to have a civilized