from 1906 and they were huge. many of these were 0 original first-generation prints from the negatives. i saw no reason to do that because the standing is so good and the library of congress has done this so often that their approach to it is they want to show you as much as they possibly can from contrast range but other than that they don't want to do anything. >> one other question. photoshop did not predict for you a color? >> absolutely not. >> it is not like some of the other colorization software. >> no. this was -- note, photoshop does

nothing. not even when the computer is going to crash. no, with files that size i didn't have much of a problem. photoshop does not predict anything. there is never -- i can deegan imagine there would be such a program to do that. some of those earlier colorizing of motion pictures was pretty bad because the color power was very short, very limited. but when you are working with the still picture versus 24 images a second and when you have them at this incredible resolution you can spend time to really get in there and detail what you want to detail but there's a terrific amount of fa going into it and my background as a cinematographer i can look at these and say there is pretty nice >> reporter: all the way across it so the end result is

pleasing. some of the stuff is real. i know those colors are real. some of that i have to generate or extrapolate but that is okay. the end results has to be a pleasing house across the photograph. >> i wonder if you could walk us through how you chose the colors on that particular one, the women's dresses, why did that one bit green -- >> i had researched again women's clothing of that era and it was essentially my choice. i had more choice obviously on women's clothing and stuff that

normal civilians war and military, obviously blue and gray dictates the percentage -- >> spend a lot of time with women's dresses and the colors women had. >> i looked at them, realized the colors were not that needed. they were quite vivid. so i would prefer not to repeat myself, and this young lady right here in the sort of red brown thing, you look at the texture, the pattern of the cloth which to your mind would look pretty good, sort of like that or would you rather see that. ? blue would not be appropriate for something like that. there is great latitude to on

the colors you would select for some of those things especially women's clothing. >> one or two thing is they tell us about that is they discovered colors are much brighter than we thought they were. the past colonial colors is all wrong. bright colors -- >> that is true. but that was 150 years ago. >> the civil war ladies liked white dresses too. >> speak of a little. >> two questions, one technical and one not. is there any way to infer the gradations in black and white what colors that might be? >> not really. no. there is no real way of doing that. i wish there were.

however, sometimes you can look at -- george armstrong custer, when you look at photographs of custer, and there were -- i did a lot of research on his hair color and some people said it was yellow, was blunt, some said reddish blond but when you look at his skin, his skin tone is pale. if you know people who have reddish hair their skin tone is usually pale. you will also seek not on this photograph but on others you will see a lot of watching on his skin is so it is a pretty good estimation from that to save this is pretty much what custer would have looked like and again when i would find a conflict in the color of his

hair or lincoln's eyes or anything else there is no way to prove 100% so i would go with the consensus and go from there. i wish there were. it is a great idea but there is not. >> given the intensity of what you were doing how does this >> your perception, how does this change your feelings towards those civil war? >> say again. >> how does it change your feelings toward the civil war? >> it made it more immediate to me. like anyone else you look at these black-and-white photographs and it seems like a long time ago. in a sense it is but it in another it is not. my feeling on the civil war is it made it far more immediate, far more real and far more personal than i ever would have imagined that this happened here.

this isn't something that happened half a world away in some third world hell hole. this is here. this happened here on our own soil so it has great import to the american experience. >> the use a mac or up pc? >> i won't get into that. i used pc, not . a pc aficionado, my friend says you are nuts, you should change that platform. when you have something that worked well for you for years and you are so knowledgeable that it becomes intrusive, you just do this, i george want to change that. he tried, he bought me an back and said try this for a week or a month and that did and it was -- idea and want that learning

curve. i am not a computer person. it is the tool to me and i don't want to have to think about what i am doing before i do it so my background in pc -- someone else could see their background is in mac and the end result would probably be the same given all the input being the same. photoshop is photoshop regardless of the platform. >> a few more questions. >> how did you pick the pictures? >> how did i pick the pictures? i wanted to -- so many of these photographs are well-known photographs. almost everyone has seen at some point or another. when i went through the stuff at the library of congress i looked at thousands of photographs and after a while, there was just

something about certain photographs that clicked with me. this is a great photograph to use and again, i wanted stuff that was pretty good photographically mostly in focus and shark -- i don't say this as a joke but the longer you stand still -- i wanted stuff that was technically quite good but wanted stuff that grab people by looking at faces. there's something about looking at real old face, this was an instant of real time. this isn't a drawing or something. these people actually existed. this moment in time existed. they still do now exist in color. [applause]

>> speaking as a bit of a they i know that nowadays you can take and i see befuddle and convert it to black-and-white and photoshop remove the huge value from the color but keeps the brightness values those that is why dark blue and a red will come out at similar tones in the black-and-white. a couple questions about in ferrying colors from photographs that you must have done some of that on an unconscious level because for an instant you could look at a tone and not tell if it was blue or red but you would be able to tell this isn't yellow because it would be much later. so there was a little bit of that going on. >> to some extent there was but more of that to me was the use of the word art history, that felt right to me. i never looked on it as this has

to technically match for anything like that. it was more what felt correct to me on the photograph. that to me was you had a mechanic behind and go a little beyond to go for a wider picture. >> you have done an incredible job. so impressive. >> we appreciate it, great job. [applause] >> a great book. you may buy one for any one of your choice right here and john will sign it and this one was the one that grabbed me. cold harbor, 7,000 people died in 30 minutes and this is african-americans who have been tasked with cleaning up the battlefield. it is a startling picture in color. thank you.

>> my pleasure. >> visit booktv.org to watch any of the programs you see here on line. tight the author or book title in the search bar on the upper left of the page and click search. you can share anything you see easily by clicking share on the upper left side of the page and selecting the 4 match. pull tv streams live online for 48 hours every weekend with top nonfiction books and authors. booktv.org. >> next, michael d'antonio reports on the sexual abuse scandal in the catholic church in his book "mortal sins". the author examines 4 years of sexual abuse claims against priests and the church's reaction. mr. d'antonio speaks on a panel with barbara blaine, founder of the survivors network of those abused by priests, thomas p. doyle, jeff anderson, former priest and nun patrick wall. this is about an hour and a

half. [applause] >> good evening. i m michael d'antonio, author of "mortal sins". [applause] >> listening tonight are the heros of this story. i tried -- very special. i have written and coauthored and ghostwritten quite a few books. none have meant what this book means to me. this is a book about a genuine civil rights movement. it has been underrecognized and underappreciated for what it has accomplished on behalf of abused children, on behalf of equality, on behalf of the people who are

the church and make no mistake for catholics, for all christians the church is the people landed you're not a catholic and not a christian you can appreciate the concept of we are all one. and the folks done this stage of done more to promote the unity of humanity than any people i have ever met. i would like to introduce from my left barbara blaine. [applause] >> barbara is founder and director of the survivors network this, she has been doing this work since the mid-1980ss when no one else was willing to talk about it, when no one else was there to support people who have been victimized and people

fighting for their rights, barbara was there. she was the person who went on television first, she alerted the world to what became an international crisis, she has devoted her life to this cause. next to barbara is jeffrey anderson. [applause] >> jeff anderson brought the second lawsuit ever brought against the roman catholic church in america. when a couple whose son was abused by priests who was then allowed to escape because of the policies of the hierarchy, because of the pledge to avoid scandal the all bishops and cardinals take, jeff was the man recommended for the job. he is the order is a lawyer i

ever met and certainly one of the most courageous and most tough-minded attorney i ever met and anyone who ever encountered him has ever met. he is a force of nature. to my right is thomas p. doyle. [applause] >> when no ordained man would stand up for abused children, [applause] >> con was a highflier. in the mid 1980s he was a man to watch in the catholic hierarchy. he could have had almost any job he wanted in the church and if you don't think that is power than you don't know the catholic church. she is the most highly developed network in the world. the power and prestige that were

available to tongue as he worked in the vatican were enormous. and he took it seriously and the welfare of children seriously and the value of children above his own career. if you don't think priests care about their careers and you don't know priests. this is not a vocation where they hand you things. the ambition in the ranks of the priesthood and among bishops is intense and as spiritual as tom may have been he was an ambitious fellow too and he believed in the church and what hierarchy said and is still a christian man and practice christianity by fighting on behalf of children, and he was

abused in ways no man should be abused. end of vatican embassy, he is persona non grata because he won't keep his mouth shut. can he gets to the golden moment just short of the pension and of course his bishop makes sure he loses his job. this is how they roll and this is unman who refuse to be intimidated and has become a hero in the movement. [applause] >> next is "the civil war in color: a photographic reenactment of the war between the states" 18. [applause] >> patrick wall is probably the youngest member of our panel.

he was a young monk and became a priest who pastured churches that were struck by the scandal. he came into parishes and cleans up the mess after someone was accused and then typically shuttles to another parish. this is the outrage of the scandal "mortal sins" addresses. this is not about the church per se. this is about the management of the church, this is a cover-up, this is watergate with a clerical collar on. and patrick was a servant, did his best by the people in his parish, and he has since become a layperson who is married, has pursued cases of abuse around

the world. he is -- i am a impressed with his work in alaska among native alaskans which was absolutely critical to them finding some bits of the justice and he now crisscrosses the world doing good work. [applause] >> last but not least is our surprise guest, richard sipe. [applause] >> richard was first a priest and also of monk from st. john's, then as the psychotherapist, social scientist, educator, investigated this problem when no one would talk about it. this was before cobra mentioned child abuse on tv. this is something important for

all of us to appreciate. as late as 1980 the medical text that physicians read for their education told them that there was no such thing as a child sexual abuse. oh sure, there were crazy instances, maybe one in a million, literally this was taught, in a million, and richard understood better but he understood more that catholic priests were suffering with the burden of the church's sexual teaching and as the therapist he was hearing over and over again the problems ordained men ran into. many of them were criminal problems and he very carefully assembled the first book ever published on this crisis and in 1990 it was published to great

acclaim among those who knew and to great outrage among those who would deny. richard is the intellectual father of this movement. he will laugh with embarrassment and he will push aside with modesty that is genuine, but he is the person who got us thinking about this. [applause] >> i think richard, it might be a good place to start to ask you to try to go back to your earliest work and what you heard as you were doing therapy, as you were teaching commack as you were listening to your colleagues about the problems of the men who came into your care. >> i will try.

my wife, a psychiatrist, and i were involved in this since 1967. in the discussion of that -- we were trying to help the people who were in the church. i am very privileged to be with these people. anderson and thomas p. doyle and i met together at a conference in 1992. at that time i was still very much done hope that the reformation was going to come from inside the church but i knew it was a reformation. i opened up my talk, welcome to wittenberg. i am not sure where we are now but we are beyond wittenberg.

we know certain things that we did know or could face then. i did say at that time that the problem we are seeing, the sexual abuse of minors by roman catholic priests is the tip of the iceberg and if you follow it to its origins it will lead you to the highest corridors of the vatican. in spite of my insight that it was a problem in the priesthood and it was a structural problem, i maintained minnesota naivete all little bit like like what legong for the town next door. that is where everything good was. i was brought up in a monastery from the time i was 13 years old and i was convinced they would reform the church. i did some things to help them out.

the convention of survivors was held at st. john's in 94. it was jeff anderson who converted me. we sat down, i went to ask him could he beat me, i asked him for some money to help out the cause because they had formed a group that i thought was going to be a real core to the reformation of this and they elected me their chair for two years and i said help me out with this. he looks at me and he said they are the worst, the darkest of the dark, they are the enemy. i shook my head and went back to my internal and spiritual drawing board and said the good people can't really be so

devious and yet as i discovered little by little it was the section after deception, that i have allowed myself to be drawn into. maybe some of the good i have done is because i am so naive and i could ask the kind of naive questions. thomas p. doyle and jeff are my spiritual mentors. i went in at 13 to be a monk. i didn't want to be an activist and i don't think i am a very good activists. i am not a good argument, i don't stand up very well under adversarial conditions. i am not a lawyerly type of person. i have my ideas. i like to teach. let's talk about it and see what

the problems are. at any rate i went on and jeff really did convert me but he converted me more than just that. the spirits quality of monasticism is a spirituality of radical honesty. that is what monasticism is supposed to do for a person, supposed to go through a process by which you face yourself as you are, and as all of us know, that is not easy because when we sit down and contemplate things can be very pleasant but also the dark side of ourselves and i think that this book is magnificent in its touching the radical honesty of everyone in

there. >> i wanted to also bring out the fact that victims have to be radically honest about what happened to them and fight to get some kind of response that honors that radical honesty. i don't want to put you too much on the spot but if you could talk a little bit about what it was like for you at the very beginning to be a woman who has gotten up the courage to confront especially the bishop, who was the boss of the person who abused you and describe for folks the response that you got and what that did to you as a young person just coming to grips with it. >> thank you for writing this book and telling the experience

of so many, thanks to all the people here i feel really honored to be on the stage with these amazing people. i can tell you run i was -- when i first realized what happened to me was abuse i was well into adulthood. i previously had just fought there was something wrong with me and i made a good -- when we began to realize something was wrong and i needed help high mustered a lot of courage, went home and told my mom and dad and they respond appropriately. one of the first things after the shock wore off a little, my dad was a we have to report this to the bishop. my dad didn't say we have to report this to the police, nothing in me thought of going to the police. so we went to the bishop and the head of the religious community.

they were kind, they acted as though they cared but their behavior later showed that they didn't and eventually they basically gave a lot of empty promises. they promised they would make sure father warren was never allowed to be around children again and eventually i learned that was not true. he was around children all the time and there were no restrictions on him even after the bishop promised that. in many ways coming to grips with the fact the church officials were not honest and they did not live up to the teachings that they promoted and they lacked integrity, to that realization in many ways was almost as devastating as the actual sexual violence and as so many of you know, that is a lifelong -- the implications of

that are lifelong for all of us. the bottom line is in total frustration and anger and hurt, and i thought church officials are not helping me at all, they are not helping my family and i still needed healing. it was back in the 1980s and those who are young enough can remember that was an era of self-help groups and so i thought i had this attitude like who needs the church officials? we can find each other, we could do some research and figure it out ourselves. i look for other survivors and we talked to each other. this was before internet. we found each other and we tried to get the people here on this panel to share with us wisdom they had and some of them came and talked to our groups and our meetings and we thought we were

figuring this out and one thing led to another and we form support groups and found it helpful to be together and people started doing the same groups in their own cities and that is how it grew. >> one of the things i tried to do in the book and i am told it worked, is to show especially in the beginning, folks were doing what they could do in the moment as regular old folks who had a serious issue that no one wanted to talk about, no one wanted to address, there was no structure or mall for dealing with it. fortunately there was the self-help movement beginning at that time, but a lot of what has been achieved over the years, we are talking about billions of dollars paid to people who are

victimized, hundreds of people put in prison, certainly the attention that has been riveted upon the church, the church hierarchy, the bishops and the vatican, and this issue, has really been made possible by folks who were learning and doing as they made it up in a way and this is something i would like jeff anderson to address. he got this case, this very first case, and was a very assertive young lawyer but had no idea what constituted the hierarchy, no idea there was this vast organization or that bishops would behave the way he discovered they behaved and he had to learn while doing. i am wondering if you could

recall for folks the dawning of your understanding of this and how that happened. >> first, when you describe myself and my colleagues as heroes, i never thought of myself as a hero. i have fought every day, every survivor, every family member supports the survivor who finds the way to break the silence and to share the secret and take some action is a hero and it is a survivor, those who stand with them, to me i stand in awe of and put up with every day and shared. thank you to all of you survivors and barbara who started what i call civil-rights movement in america. my encounter was in 1983, a mom

and dad came into my office and describes that their son had been raped by a priest repeatedly who had been in to their home, and trusted and learning of that when their son was in trouble land in jail, they immediately as good catholics had gone immediately to the bishop and told the bishops what they had learned from their son and what had happened years earlier and the bishop listened and didn't react. and they walked out bewildered that he had not reacted and a few days later they got a check in the mail from the archdiocese of st. paul, minneapolis for $2,000 and came into my office with a check in their hands, what do we do? and told you how this had been

and i said report this to the police, cashed a check, reported it to the police saying there's nothing we can do because of a statute of limitations. i went to the archdiocese and said there's a priest in the parish who raped this child's. we are not sure, we are not going to. in 1984 in america as far as i knew the catholic church had never been sued so i didn't have any place to look and so we did and had the courage to give me a chance to do that and somebody did but did not make it public. what do you want? i want the priest's house brand i want to know who is in charge and when it happened. what else do you want?

who is in charge, put them under oath and ask how this happened and why it happens. the best that ever happened, archbishop's don't give that. give a deposition and filing this case and making it public, you got your deposition and that began a journey of unraveling, rigorous and dark truths and the pursuit of it and it led to other bishops all of whom told us that they didn't know about this guy all of whom live too was under oath and we got a tip from eight priests who said talked to jay frye and and the realize they had known this guy for 20 years and move to ten places with full knowledge he had been raping kids and was

continuing to do so. >> this is a member of a family in which four five boys were victimized by the same priest and people who know about sex crimes, these were serial offenders. this was not news to people who had any sense of how the world works and despite their denials, bishops understood this. >> and they lied about it and they knew we knew they lied about it so they called one day, we want to settle and we want to settle for $1 million and we want to settle with the usual confidentiality agreement.

and is not something, that is a huge amount of money. that night i didn't sleep a wink. explain to him they were offering to pay $1,984,000,000, that he would have to be quiet and i would too. and hat and turn it down quick before i change your mind. and i went back to my office and got those papers and filed it with the clerk and called the media and told them what they knew and everyday since that day

in 1984 i have been working with courageous survivors like that who had the courage to break the silence, share the secret, take some action because we know that every day because of that and the rigors and painful truth of being revealed and every day in some way, that they're being protected. in this book, not only told that story but what i think is the civil-rights movement running across the globe that started in lieu easy and as saint paul, minn. he captured it in a way that -- and in the depths that bose brings great sorrow but deep understanding of the breadth and depth of what i stumbled upon in 1983 about which i had no clue and about which we now know to be an

unraveling and revealing. we hit the tip of the iceberg and the bad news there's a lot beanies it. a lot of it revealed in this masterworks that he spent years, maybe two, research in. >> maybe 3. >> one of the things that was discovered and much of this book is kind of a legal thriller. there's a lot of procedural conflict and a lot of amazing discoveries achieved through serious leg work. detectives going out and checking stories, geoff, conducting these depositions that are withering and when you read and imagine a bishop saying little boys he'll it sends a chill down your spine. it is remarkable to consider

jeff started this work in 1983. we are now 30 years into this and people will say to me why is this going on so long, one big reason can be addressed by tom doyle, that is the clerical culture, tom lived at , worked with it, worked against it, discovered early in this fight, warned the church, when it faced, he guessed it might be $1 billion, that was my impression. and discovered there was no real mechanism for addressing and there was a mindset that worked against it. >> it will help people

understand why this goes on and on. >> i go back for 30 years involved in this and i was on the inside. i was an ambitious cleric loyal to the system, to the institution. i have a hard time referring it to the institution as the church because i have a great deal of respect for the body of christ and people who are followers of christ. i have no respect for the institutional catholic church, the pope or the bishops, none whatsoever. however, back then, i was a different person, it was a different ball game. i got into this and i still not sure, i knew what the events were that happens but i could characterize it a lot of different ways, i really find it -- i don't want to use the word

offensive but difficult to listen to the characterization, you have done this or that, what changed me and kept me on board was meeting of the victims and their families, especially their mothers and fathers. over the years i could never turn my back on fat butt back to what you said, i was ordained in 1970, in the beginning of thes i was in the vatican embassy in washington d.c. deep on the inside, very ambitious, hoping this career track would take me up word and give me a very high position at least as a bishop if i am honest about it. that is where i was, that is what i wanted. at that time you never admitted, just want to be a humble servant of the church with a lot of b s of that nature. when this came up the first thing counter i had with -- i don't use the word abuse, i use

violation. it is a little stronger. i don't think we have a vocabulary in the english-language that can adequately describe what this is all about, not just the individual acts of violation and raped but the entire scenario. it is not a scandal, it is far worse, not a crisis, way where it's roseanne that. ..

>> my situation was in louisiana, but i have to say i honestly believed, the system i was a part of would do the right thing. i was horrified when i read these letters that i was asked to put into this file and respond. i was horrified because father, the ex-father, he had raped at least, you know, a hundred children that they knew about at the time, and that number went up to probably 500 if truth be told. gradually, this thing unfolded, and i thought i was doing the right thing, and i gradually realized they did not want to do the right thing, but cover this up. they wanted to disappear anyone who was making too much noise about it, and as the years went on and my involvement went on, my attitude and understanding of

the e cleez yaysty call system changed radically, and the reason this will go on and on and on and has gone on and why it's so shocking is more than just the fact of men who are trusted with everything by good catholic people that they rape children. this is horrendous enough, but if you try to wrap your mind around the reality was fact we have one of the most heinous crimes there is next to neck feel ya perhaps, but grown men raping little boys and girls or teenage boys and girls are horrendous, but then you add to the fact it's a religion, the world's oldest organized religion that purports to be, you know, the direct desen didn't of jesus christ not only populating the world with these men, but enabling them, covering them, lying for theming, and to make that worse, when the

victims who are almost always devout, card carrying catholics get pushed to the wall, and their only alternative is to stand up to the system and ask, you know, why? they are punished for having the audacity to challenge the system. what i learned over the years is that this system is not concerned one damn bit about the welfare of the boys and girls or the mothers and fathers or the brothers and sisters whose lives they have ran a sunder. they are concerned about their image, power, prestige, and their wealth. all the other stuff that they do and have done since they've been exposed, the background checks, all the programs, all the policies, all of this, that they pat themselves on the back about, we've done more than any other organization. this is true. no other organization has put in

place as many policies and procedures as the roman catholic church, but then there's a line under that that has to be read, and that's the fact. this is not an opinion. it's a fact. everything that has been done has been forced, and the force has not just been you got to do this. it's been a fight to the math. anybody on stage can attest to that. it's been a fight to make any of this happen. why? well, i think the why is because the system itself really should not be considered in the same mine set or the same sentence with the word "christianity" or "christ" because it's a system, a corporation, a business, a monarchy that is fundamentally narcissistic and self-serving, and the problems will continue. we will not see a radical change under this pope or any other pope as long as the system

remains what it is, where this stratified society where clerics, priests, deacons, popes, bishops, cardinals are above other people and believing they are because the higher power made them that way, which is heiracy to say the least, and as long as there's that abuse of the behavior, we'll continue to see what we see. what i find profoundly amazing and have all these years, i've the had benefit of massive amount of graduate education, and i know pretty much about the church history, you know, what's happened, what has not happened, and how it's shaped, you know, civilization, done incredible things, and here we have probably one of the most profound changing taking place. it's not just calling to court,

but there's a fundmental profound culture change with regard to the roman catholic church. if the differential element they used to enjoy is eroding, the playing field is becoming equal, and this is something that's mind boggling, and why is that happening? because of a bunch of men and women who got pushed to the wall and decided that for their human dignity, they had to do more than say, yes, sir, no, sir, yes, father, no, father, but they stood up to the mammoth institution, and all they had going for them was inner conviction and the truth, and it worked, and these people are the victims, now the survivors, that this institution could not shut up and never will be able to shut up because they're looking out for others. the system is looking out only for itself, and that radical

dichotomy is what in the end will sink that ship. [applause] >> you know, i think tom really put his finger on it when he talked about the institutional deafness, you know, and that almost -- it's -- deafness might not be the right word. there's a willful resistance to information, and the other thing that i think is remarkable and it's something that we've learned through the example of other civil rights movements is that when the people who are violated stand up, and when the people who are oppressed simply show that they're being oppressed, if you're willing to talk about the issues, if you're willing to not be shunted aside and to say, yeah, i'm going to

talk about the fact that somebody sexually abused me, and this happens in our human community, and this is something that we can't fix until we face it. you know, that's the beauty of truth, and that's the beauty of what's been accomplished here. pat, you're someone who worked literally as a fixer inside the church, inside the institutional church, sent to parrishs to put them back together once scandal had struck. i was wondering if you could talk to us about what happens to the community that is a church when this occurs, and what happened to you personally as a young priest. i think you are probably the kind of priest i would have loved to have known as a kid, and i think all of us are glad to have you among us today, but if you would get back to that time in your life and explain

what it was like, both having the mission of putting the pieces back together, and, also, having the realizations that you did over time, that might help people understand the personal side of this. >> i think the easiest way to begin is the book is something that we needed for a long time because we have to answer why the silence? why the silence in the church? why the silence in society? it really comes down to the largest institution in the united states, one more powerful, more wealthy, which has more influence than anybody else decided internally that the crimes of childhood sexual abuse were okay. now, i, as a naive college kid, decided to join a monestary, i

played college football, thought i would coach football, teach, live on a dormitory floor, and live out what i thought would be a challenging life, but what happened was just the opposite. absolute destruction of the institution internally, and nobody ever told us internally. i found out about our first lawsuits at st. johns because i was on fire duty that night, and i just happened to watch the news. i didn't find out from the avid or reading on the bulletin board. we didn't find out we had pagers back then. we didn't find out about it by being pagedded. we found out about it on the news. that's what began the whole slide or baptism by fire, and because of the lawsuits, i got forced into parrish ministry,

and i was forced into seeing the darkness, because every person i followed, unfortunately, was a child molester, and what happens is you have the families. i think the other thing the book does for me is i can use it now, i think, to give to parents to be able to give them a philosophical category and a language to understand and to be able to talk about all the crimes that have happened and that continue to happen in the church today because that's the biggest thing. i mean, i couldn't explain that to my mother. i was working on the cases. there's no philosophical background because the church never acknowledged its own history, and by having to work on the cases, work on try tribu, the council to pay for this, you start to see the knowledge that's there. i would like to say, well, if you want to talk about it, let's start just -- just pick a century, and then let's start talking about that century. [laughter] that's how old it is.

it's older than that nays schism. it's so deep. my whole life changed. that's okay. not as much as the family's. the mothers and fathers, oh, my god, i can still see their faces. i can hear their silent screams because those are the kids that they raised, and unfortunately, turned over in trust to be abused. that's what still chills me. it's the parents. i can work with the survivors. it's the parents i have no answers for in any way shape or form. they were lied to from the very beginning. they continue to be lieded to. what i hope that happens is this will begin and end a debate. it will end the silence, it will begin the openness. thank god for the internet.

you know how much trouble we would be in without the internet to be able to connect all the dots, to be able to talk to a guy in missouri, talk to a guy in seattle, and then to work on a case in pennsylvania in the same day? that's what's changed. the church itself has not changed. i can tell you the clerics i work with have not changed. when i was sent to st. paul for the first time,-so -- it was so rotten, my bishop was a perpetrator who was moved there from spokane, washington. the head judge of the tribunal was a perpetrator. the pastor i was replacing was a perpetrator. the victor general sent me to live in a different parrish because i couldn't live at the parrish because another priest living there had a thing going on with a none. nun. how screwed up can the whole

thing get? we paid for the priests who had children. one of the powerful things that you need to remember is the system is not sell bit, talk about the system all you want, it's not. we're not living the true life of faith. when i left in 2011, i thought it was going down in silence. i really thought it was. thank god i was wrong. >> thanks, pat. [applause] >> richard, richard, you had a thought. >> i'll tell you, on saturday night, my wife and i were quietly sitting at home. i think i might even be enjoying a glass of wine, and i got a call from washington, d.c., a man who tom doyle will have been acquainted with. i refused to give him tom's

telephone number because -- >> tom would never talk to you again. [laughter] >> anyway, he told me the story. he said, you know that book "mortal sins," i said, yes. he has a lot of aqainses with priests all over the sky. he said, one of my friends was on a plane going to rome. he was reading this book, and he was underlining it. he met with a friend of his. it was a cardinal in the vatican, and he was having a glass of wine with the cardinal, and the cardinal choked, went blue, and white, and was taken off to the hospital. the cardinals -- i don't know his condition now, but his last words going out the door was, he can't do that. [laughter] i don't know who the "he" was,

whether it was jeff or mike or tom, but, anyway, i wanted to encourage you, mike, about the effect of your tale. [laughter] >> i made a cardinal turn red, white, and blue. god bless america. [laughter] >> god bless america. [laughter] >> you know, there is something here about americanism, and this is something that i want to talk about. i open the book by painting a picture of vaticans firing in 19 # 70, reunification knocking down the wall as they went over the roof, and the call calvary d in, and some of the pope soldiers died and some of the others died, but the pope con

pitchlated, and it was the end of the vatican's reign over ruler over land in central italy, and at that moment, the church commitmented itself to becoming not an empire of territory, but a moral empyre, and they preparedded for this a few years earlier declaring the pope infallible. non-catholics, first the infallibility thing is, like, oh, i don't know about that, but that is a modern contest. folks were not infallible until the middle of the 19th century, and so they claimed this moral territory for themselves and told everyone else what was moral causing an awful lot of pain for people while living due police tis lives themselves, and this morality held for a long time until that terrible period known as the 60s when people started questioning authority, and then came along the

internet. i think we cannot underestimate the power of information and how that has allowed the american ideal of equality under the law of democratic rule, of equal access to all that life has to offer to come into conflict with the monarchy that is the church. another important thing to remember is this is a religion that's also a state, and they are allowedded to form a community. there have been lots of secrets sent from america to rome in diplomatic pouches. with the power of the interpret, people are able to communicate, documents emerge in los angeles, just recently documents emerged in los angeles, that specifically have talked about cases in mexico or other documents in california that relate to cases in italy, allow

activists around the globe to put the pieces together and to get at the truth that is heretofor been unavailable, and what we are seeing to some degree is a catholic spring, similar to the arab spring and similar to the democratic impulses that are sweeping the world, and it's not going to happen today or tomorrow, but there's change afoot, and these guys started it back when fax machines were the state of the art you know, i know there's actually -- before there was a list serve, there was a mailing list, and people would literally xerox. we have a new pope who gives hope and not others.

it's great disagreement about that. the last thing i want to ask everyone to sort of address is maybe we can just go from my right all the way across is what do you think you'd like to see happen in the immediate future and what priorities should be for those of us who care about children and care about the values promoted by this movement, so, richard, maybe you could start us off by letting us know what you see in the next few years and what's in your heart about it. >> i don't think what is known and has been made known will ever go secret again. tom and pat and i worked on a book where we drew the documentation from the vatican, things that were known and said in 1149, the saint wrote to the

pope saying we have a terrible problem, and the problem is that priests are sexually abusing young boys. i mean, that's a long time ago. it was printed up, but that will not go silent again or unnoticed again. i think that gives us all open in terms of supporting kids to come forward, and i'd just like to say i would like to disavow -- this is not a biography of my life -- >> "mortal sins" -- >> although he's committed a few of them, probably. [laughter] >> despite the appropriateness of the title. >> i think if we really want to change things, the common thread i've seen since the first case i worked on in 1991 was child pore pornography. almost every single priest case i worked on, in some way or

other, those guys are involved in child pornography. we got to end child pornography, otherwise, it's just going to continue on. maybe it's cause and effect, whatever, maybe i'm too simple and down in the trench and got too much mud flying every which way every day, but every single priest in one way or another, you know, whether it's coming back from belgium, going back to ireland, stupidly forgetting the computer on the plane, they all are involved in child pornography in one way or another. >> i've been involved in this long enough to become terminal by cynical. i think what we've seen over the past 30 years 1 -- is a gradual, but steadily increasing revelation of what's always been there, which is the dark side of the institution, the kingdom of the monarchy. what i would hope happens is

simply this. this nightmare has left in its wake probably millions of men and women profoundly harmed by the sexual violation of priests and the continued spiritual and emotional violation of the clearishes, bishops, and cardinals who have not only failed to help them, but harm them more, and what the institution has not been able to do is figure out or even discover the importance of reaching out to the men and women and their families and helping them. the -- to me, that's one of the most -- the way we can change the system, we can, you know, pound the hell out of bishops and cardinals, make them do things, make them have programs and policies and so on and so forth and do these silly ass healing services where they lay

on the floor and do nonsense like that, but until they figure out and understand they profoundly harm people and have to reach out, and help not just with a lot of words, but with actions, that's where the church is active, but who is the church? it's the victims helping each other. there's a guy in the back, bob, who does this all the time, reaching out, and i'm sure that is almost profoundly painful job because there's so many. it's -- when is this ever going to end? that's the thing i see. if this new pope, you know, he's going to make a difference if he makes heads roll, quickly, not waiting around, but rolling fast, fire the guys at the top. that's not going to happen, but if somehow or another they realize the system, the institution realizes they have to do what christ would do, and what christ would do is reach out and understand and listen to the agony, to the pain, to the

suffering. that's what he would do, he would not be in the victim, clobbering them, but he would be down in the trenches. when that starts to happen and we can see that, then we'll know there's been the beginning of some inclimate change, but not until. [applause] >> three part. awareness, understanding, and action. we're aware we have a pure monarchy, the most powerful in the world, that in it is bested so much power in western civilizations there's no other like it. in the office of the pope, there is the power to demand complete obedience and require secrecy in order to preserve rep --

reputation and preserve that power. we've also come to understand through the american legal system and encourage the survivors that we can expose the hierarchy for their corruptions. power corrupt -- absolute power corrupts absolutely. there is absolute corruption at the top, and what we can do now that we're beginning to understand through the work of so many survivors and this work as well is a call to action, and that is to demand and require legally and culturally that the vat kin disgorged itself of all of its secrets, held worldwide by every bishop at the vatican, that it makes sure that none of

the clerics at the top tolerate it or become come police sit in those crimes, and if we require them to remove every bishop that has, there wouldn't be any left because they are all required to obey and keep secrecy, and their own law requires it. we also have to demand that they operate under the laws of our laws, not their own internal laws. we also have to demand there be an inclusion of women in management, okay? [applause] and not the illusion of woman and anybody that is a critical thinker. there's an absolute exclusion of critical thinking because everybody that is in the clerical culture is male and required to obey, and if they

don't, at great peril, they are removed from power, pay, privilege, and pension. that's the way it works. that's why there's so few like tom doyle out there still in the clerical culture. finally, there has to be an acknowledgement they are required to suppress their sexuality by this nonsense called celibacy. get real about that. let's get transparent and honest about that, because celibacy does not cause sexual abuse anymore marriage causes sexual incest. it requires to express sexuality, and when it leaks out, they rape children and vulnerable adults, what happens in the culture under the requirements and the rules of the pope? keep it secret, avoid scandal, move the priest, and perpetuate the crime, and that's why they have the crisis because the top

requires it, and if and when they become inclusionary rather than exclusionary and feel the heat, catholics, non-catholics continue to feel the heat from the media and the heat from the survivors and their families, worldwide, they will have but no choice but to either fall or to dissemble and begin the truth telling, and until they feel that heat at the top, we have not seen real fundamental change, and we won't. i have hope that we can because i've seen what happened in the last 30 years, and it took the 2,000 years to get here. it's only taken on together all of us 30 years to begin to begin

the awareness, the understanding, and now the call to action. i'm grateful to have been a part of it. >> it's really difficult to go last. one thing to make clear to recognize is everything shared here today is current. we are not talking about everything in history or to assume that this is all in the past because children are at risk today, and an example of that is something that happens over in my neck of the woods, over in the chicago area. two weeks ago, we were informed

about a -- an accused priest removed from the parrish, and these parishioners let us know that it was determined it was not safe for father cavino to be in the parrish, and so he had been quietly transferred to work in a hospital. it's a big major medical center outside of chicago called central depage hospital, and he's working as a chaplain there, and when we learned about this, we went to the hospital, we gathered up evidence, and we presented it to the hospital staff, and within hours he was fired from the hospital. the next day, the officials were saying that they had informed the hospital, and that he was being monitored, and the hospitals, of course, denied that, but then a reporter asked the spokesperson for the

diocese. what are you going to do with the father now? his response was, the father is going to have to be in restricted ministry. do you notice he didn't say, the father is being fired? we know these processes are out there. there's so many people in the room that have tirelessly worked to expose that. we know what happened two short years ago in the archdiocese of philadelphia. it was exposed in no small part due to the work of professor marcy hamilton who is sitting in the back here from the cardoza school of law and and attorney in pennsylvania, and her efforts and many others helped the grand jurors to see the truth, and

what did they discover? not one or two fathers, but actually 37 accused priests were working in the archdiocese of philadelphia just two years ago. i suspect that if there were professor marcy hamiltons in every diocese working with grand jurors in other dioceses, we'd find the exact same result in other dioceses as were found in philadelphia, and we owe, we in the survivor movement, over the past several years, have been feeling that frustration that i think several people talkedded about, the acknowledgement that the only time the church officials do something to even remotely begin to make things right or really try to protect children, they do it begrudgingly. they do it belatedly.

they -- it always comes from external sources pressuring them to do so. with that frustration, thinking of the enormous amount of pain and suffering that those of us in the movement have witnessed, and not just from the survivors, but from those who did not survive, from the family members of those victims who took their own lives because they couldn't handle the pain, and right now, we have close to 400 families who have told us who contacted us about their loved ones who committed suicide after dealing with this sexual violence at the hands of a priest, and with that frustration several years ago, we started talking to each other and said who is the authority in the world that can stop the bad again? we couldn't figure out who that might be, but we did our research, explored it, and we

determined that the place to go is the international criminal court, and we -- what we found in looking up evidence is that the church officials, and i mean the top ranking vatican officials, are involved in committing crimes against humanity. the evidence is so clear. it's happening all over the globe, and through some very kind people, we have the fortune of meeting the rights, and we're around the corner, and there's a huge impact across the globe, and they heard about our situation and they agreed to take a case to the international criminal court to try to bring that pressure on the vatican, and our lead attorney is here today, and that's pam sitting up here in the front, and that case

continues, and pam and the staff presented a submission to the international criminal court, and it contained over 20,000 pages and pieces of evidence of the crimes, and that was in 2011, and then last year, they compiled another submission so that in 2012, another 10,000 or 15,000 documents were submitted, and more is coming in, and all of these people who contribute are making the big difference, and with one goal in mind, and that is to protect the children and vulnerable adults, and i want to join with us in campaigns we embarked on knowing there is a place for you regardless of what your time or

constraints are or what you can do. if you want to help, please know you are welcome. thank you. [applause] >> thank you, everyone. i don't think it's often an author gets this support from people who have led a movement that achieved so much when the fellow comes around to write the book, he navigates personalities, the stories, and we have one here tonight trying to share with you what is a story of tragedy, but it's also a story that ends with some hope. we are here talking about it. this is not something that would have been talked about decades ago, and the progress made so

far is real and tangible and mostly how we feel about this institution now. the truth is we now judge. the respect should not be for the caller, the office, as much as it should be for the man who is the pastor. we may have that one day. we may know these pastors as pastors. i express gratitude for everyone coming tonight. these men and women i met in this per suit have moved me as no group has ever moved me. i'll never let go of them.

we have handed out cards, i think, if folks have questions to ask, and we'd love to answer them, and some are coming down here, and before we finish tonight, there's going to be one announcement made, maybe two, and first we could try with the questions, and we'll see who has one. >> mike, before we take the questions, i think it needs to be said by all that have read this book and all that participated in it that this is an extraordinary work that when you began this journey, this odyssey, it was of you had no idea. [laughter] you had no idea what you were getting into here, but it's evident adds yo traveled the globe and interviewed hundreds, if not thousands of witnesses, views tens of thousands of documents across the globe do

you begin to realize the the magnitude, the breath of the depth of this, and when you did put pen to paper, i guess, it's no longer pen, but -- [laughter] when you did record this, you had great hope and also gave of yourself and sacrificed with the love and support of your family for those kids, and to you, for your wisdom, grace, and your courage in speaking this unspeakable truth in bringing it to us, we are all grateful, thank you. [applause]

>> here's a very interesting question, and, pat, you might be able to address this since you are more recently involved in parrishs. there's a question, are priests also leaders in the boy scouts? also, this is something that maybe barbara can address. let's try the boy scouts one. >> boy scouts are instructive because they keep their files the way the roman catholic church does. they keep all the knowledge. i know people laugh at us that, you know, stuff just sits in the chance lore's office as long as the defense lawyers have not got to it, but they preserve the documents like the boy scouts did. there is a phenomena that if a priest seeks to be a boy scout leader or a girl scout leader because we have both phenomenas, it's a red flag. i think any adult knows that.

you know, i do not want to be involved in the girl scouts, but i got hooked in because my daughter wanted to try it for a year. you do it for your kids, you get out, find reverse, and find it as soon as you can. [laughter] what -- so when you see priests seeking this type of position out, you know it's a red flag. it's an absolute red flag. hopefully now we've learned and will move forward on that. >> thanks, pat. barbara, this is, i think, a question you might address because you come in contact with the media law through snap and david, your colleague, does, is the media allowed or willing to address the abuse issue over and over again? >> i think the evidence is in the soup, so to speak. i mean, the -- it's in the press frequently, so i would say the answer to that is, yes, but let's be clear.

in society, like, if you think of what's going to make the ten o'clock, or here it's the eleven o'clock news, remember there's 30 minutes of news and 15 minutes are sports and weather, so we're talking about 15 minutes they can fill with so many other things. they don't really need to cover this, and if you think about it, no one feels comfortable talking about sex and sexuality. we have become more destainful about it when we talk about it when it entails sex with a child or someone who is an adult who is vulnerable, and than you talk about potentially someone whose a cleric. it's, like, you know, there's a gross-out kind of feeling, and so we understand as a society it's not a comfortable topic to talk about, and i think that if there's other things to talk about, people will do so, and

statement, you know, our true gratitude goes out to all the reporters who are willing to invest gait and put themselves into this. it is pain. , but the outcome means potentially children are safe, but there's a good reason to do this. >> there is pressed fatigue, but the bigger problem on this issue is that the bishop's pr machine has persuaded the people in america and world wide that if it was a problem that won instead of a problem that is. that is an absolute living lie, the problem is present. there have been superficial changes, but not fundamental changes that appeared until fundmental changes, the problem is now.

it's not was. >> can i get in one short sentence? what jeff said is absolutely true. the kind of ironic a diocese has a public relations firm to convince the public they are doing what they should be doing which is to be christ-like, that they are a pr firm. another little factoid for you that public relations firm that the los angeles archdiocese has retained to help them clean the image up is the same one that enron uses. [laughter] the media, you know, what jeff said is true. they have -- they spend massive amounts of money on public relations trying to convince everyone this is -- look at what we have done, made it go away, behind us now, and i was upset about that myself but i don't anymore because i know it's not going away, and inevitably, something will happen, an explosion, eruption somewhere that will destroy that myth, and we'll be back again, will be in the news, be prominen