considered in public either by the clinical commission group or the health and well being poured? >> of course any reorganization or reconfiguration of the hospital has to meet the test of health secretary very carefully set out. but he's right to say there is no one single cause of the difficulties that we face in a&e. clearly wondering extra patience is a huge amount extra over the last three years. we have increased the funds going into our images but our big challenges to me. the question is, what we need them by cutting the nhs, which is labour's policy? will we meet him by another reorganization, which is labour's policy? know we won't. we will do with this problem by making sure we manage the nhs effectively and continued to put the money and. >> was it when a journalist masquerading as a lobbyist entrapped a tory mp that the prime minister decided to launch an all out attack the?

>> he conveniently forgets to mention the labour peers. i think we' we do have a problen parliament with the influence of third party. we do need to do with that. clearly the better of all party parliamentary groups which is a matter for the house, clearly that needs to be looked at. but as we promise in the coalition agreement we will be bringing forward and lobbying register and we are also be bringing forward a measure to make sure the unions behave properly, too. [shouting] >> may i commend my right honorable friend strong support, under biggest support for the continuation of the british nuclear deterrent? none of the alternatives to crisis study has concluded that there are no alternatives, cheaper or more effective, what are the reasons for delaying decisions of this matter can't be settled in this parliament? >> we have set out very clearly the steps that need to be taken

before the main gate decision is made, but he knows i'm strongly committed to the renewal of our deterrent on that basis that i think that is right for britain but obviously in the coalition of study has been carried out. my own view is very clear. i look at the evidence again on becoming prime minister which is that i believe if you want to have a credible deterrent you need to -- unique a submarine-based deterrent. you need one that isn't based on cruise missiles but is based on icbms. i believe that is the right answer but i think all the evidence points in that direction. >> mr. speaker, -- [inaudible] i visited him last week and they were very appreciative of everything that's been said in support of them, particularly the a state, residents. there was a memorial service held which was greatly greatly

attended for all the middleton people to pay their respects. will the prime minister join me in demanding the people of middleton for the very strong but sensitive support of family strength is very sad time? >> i will certainly join the honorable member for what he says about the people of middleton and the great respect and support and solidarity that is shown to the family of lee rigby. it was a tragedy, is desperate to many lessons that we must learn from as we discussed in the house on monday but i think it is another more for everyone in this house and in this country to reflect again on the magnificent services that the men and women of our armed forces give to our country. >> here, here. >> last but not least doctor julie hufford. >> thank you very much, mr. speaker today my right honorable friend -- [inaudible] to mark world no tobacco day. will the prime minister congratulate him for this great achievement for his work on this issue and support his campaign for plain packaging of cigarettes a?

>> i'm afraid i missed the beginning of the question about the middle but he did a magnificent introduction to the queens beach and i certainly meant him for his middle but on the issue of the policy we know that issue. >> we come now to the main business. >> you on c-span2 will leave the british house of commons now as they move on to other legislative business. you've been watching prime minister's question time aired lies -- aired live wednesday one apartment is in session. you can see this weeks questions and again sunday sunday night at nine eastern and pacific on c-span. >> for more information go to c-span.org and click o on c-span series for prime ministers questions plus links to international news media and legislatures around the world. you can also watch recent video including programs even with other international issues.

>> today, funeral services for the late new jersey senator frank lautenberg who died earlier this week. vice president joe biden, cinda bob menendez in new jersey and former secretary of state hillary clinton are expected to speak at the service from park avenue synagogue in new york city. live coverage at 11:30 a.m. eastern here on c-span2. >> i realized that our citizens it's not as dramatic as the pursuit of war and frequently the words of the pursuers fall on deaf years, but we have no more at task. some say they speak of piece or world law or world disarmament. and that it will be useless until the leaders of the soviet union adopt a more enlightened attitude i hope they do. i believe we can help them do

it. but i also believe to do much to examine our own attitudes as individuals and as a nation. for our attitude is as special as there is is. every graduate of this school, every thoughtful citizen who despairs of war and wishes to bring piece should begin by looking inward. >> tom brokaw and nick clooney reflect on the kennedy presidency and his piece speech sunday at 7:30 p.m. eastern on an american history tv on c-span3. spent conservative activist testified on capitol hill tuesday about problems they experienced while applying for tax exempt status. house ways and means committee chairman dave camp of michigan said the committee has begun interviewing employees from the irs tax-exempt office in cincinnati. this is three and a half hours.

>> [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]

[inaudible conversations] >> good morning. the hearing will come to order. we'll get immediate the chance to leave. good morning. welcome to everyone. for being with us today. despite nearly two years of

denials, last month the irs finally admitted the truth, three years ago the agency began systematically targeting individuals based on their political beliefs. however, what the agency has yet to admit, and what we still need to find out, is just how widespread this activity was, who ordered it and why it began in the first place. now, let's consider what we do know. in march 2010, the irs put together a target list that ensnared conservative groups and individuals based solely on their political beliefs. in may 2011, the irs started sending letters threatening donors to conservative leaning non-profits that they could be liable for gift taxes. in june 2011, the ways and means committee initiated an investigation into those letters and highlighted concerns that individual taxpayers might have been targeted for their political beliefs. in june 2011, the senior leadership in the washington, dc office of the irs also became aware that irs workers had been using lists to target groups

with names containing "tea party," "patriots" or "9/12 project." in march of 2012, the huffington post published the confidential 2008 donor list of the national organization for marriage, a conservative tax-exempt organization. in july 2012, the administration through the treasury department was informed by the treasury inspector general of a tigta audit examining the targeting of groups by the irs. in may 2013, the public and congress were finally told that this practice had occurred, but only after a scathing report by tigta resulted in senior irs officials planting a question about the targeting activity prior to the report's release. and just this weekend, the wall street journal reported that the irs gift tax letter that launched this committee's initial investigation was in fact the result of a

conservative organization and its donors being targeted for their political beliefs. those are the facts that we know. we also know that americans were affected by the culture of political intimidation and discrimination that was cultivated by this targeting. at its core, this investigation is about how and why the irs was empowered and allowed to use a broken tax code to abuse individuals based on their beliefs, and seemingly only based on their beliefs. and who are these americans? while their life stories are different, what they all share in common is that they are americans who did what we ask people to do every day, add their voice to the dialogue that defines our country. and for pursuing that passion, for simply exercising their first amendment rights, the freedoms of association, expression and religion, the irs singled them out. today's witnesses will help this committee and the american people better understand just how far off track the irs has gone.

their testimony will show that the irs's practice of treating certain americans differently on the basis of their beliefs was not limited to the discriminatory conduct revealed by the treasury inspector general for tax administration's report released on may 14, 2013. victims included tea party and non-tea party groups, 501(c)(4) social welfare organizations and 501(c)(3) charitable organizations, including religious organizations. all of the witnesses received onerous and intrusive questionnaires from irs agents across the country. some even had their confidential information leaked by the irs to the media, which can have the impact of chilling free speech. information requests to some included questions that were not only irrelevant but also intimidating, not to mention a violation of privacy. those requests included asking for the following: copies of all activity on facebook or twitter;

resumes of all past or present employees; whether past or present employees or a member of their family plans to run for office in the future; a list of past or present board members or members of their family that volunteer at a tax-exempt organization; information on their interaction with the media; details regarding the group's relationship with a private taxpayer; and a list of donors. the invited witnesses are but a small sample of americans who have been treated differently and discriminated against by their government because of their individual, deeply held beliefs. there are many, many more. again, i thank all of the witnesses for being here with us today, for the time you have taken to travel here and for sharing your stories and experiences. while we might not know why this happened, please be assured that learning firsthand from you about how the irs used the tax code to intimidate and harass you will help us take the steps necessary to make sure this never happens again.

i will not recognize ranking member levin for an opening statement. >> thank you very much. at our first hearing, and every day since, each of us on a bipartisan basis have condemned the actions within the irs exempt organization division, and condemn the actions by the irs leadership who failed to accurately and adequately inform congress after that all of the facts of what had occurred between 2010-2012. we've all said that the single out by name was wrong. the president said it was outrageous. the delays of over 13 months in processing applications were wrong, and the fact that the

applications of some organizations have been pending for over three years is inexcusable. the inability to get clear guidance and how to measure political activity was wrong. and the burdensome questions and inquiries were totally inappropriate. the handling of these applications with gross mismanagement by the irs exempt organization division. that's why the day after the report was issued i called for acting commissioner steve miller and the exempt organization division director lois lerner to be replaced. since our hearing, progress has been made to address the malfeasance that occurred within the irs exempt organization division. and to assure that all of the facts come to the surface and that all identify problems are

corrected so that the confidence of the american people may be restored. steve miller resigned as the irs commissioner. the president appointed daniel warfel as the acting irs commissioner, and secretary lew instructed him to immediately conduct a 30 day review and implement the recommendations of the ig report. lois lerner, the director of the exempt organization division, was placed on administrative leave by commissioner warfel. commissioner warfel appointed david fisher as the chief risk officer. mr. fischer previously served as the chief administrative office, officer and chief financial officer at gao. and yesterday he appointed a new deputy commissioner and a chief of staff, both with significant managerial and administrative experience.

to the individuals testifying before us, to each and all of you, to the organizations they represent, and all the others who were caught up in this malfeasance, you are owed an apology. we say to you that each of us is committed to doing our part to ensure this does not happen again. the ig's report includes a number of key facts that we should keep in mind today. the ig determined that the applications of 298 organizations were set aside for further review. one-third of the applications that were set aside, 96, contained the name tea party, 912, or patriots. while the remaining 202 applications did not. they are released a list of 176

advocacy organizations that have been approved for tax exempt status through may 9. the news organization tax analysts did an analysis of the list released by the irs. its conclusion as to the approved applicants states, in quotes, these organizations are the following, 46 with tea party, patriots, or 9/12 and her name. 76 other conservative organizations, 48 nonconservative organizations, and six organizations about which we can make no determination, end quote. this is not a democratic or republican issue. it should not be. this issue is a direct reflection on highly inappropriate actions within the irs exempt organization division, and totally

incompetent management within and over that division. the tigta report highlights more problems than the singling out by name. the report found that i was employees were screening applications -- found that irs employees were screening applications that had no indications of significant political activities while closing cases that did have such indications. to qualify for tax-exempt status as social welfare organizations, the tax code provides that an organization must be operated exclusively for the promotion of social welfare. the regulations, however, state that an organization will qualify for tax-exempt status if operated primarily for social welfare purposes. over all the data indicate an androgen use of the social welfare designation under 501(c)(4) to engage in

political activity. 501(c)(4)s spent $92 million in the 2010th election. day spent 254 million in the 2012 election, the second largest category of organizations making political expenditures, equal to that of political parties. one recommendation, and i close with this, in the tigta report was that the irs and the department of treasury include guidance on how to measure the primary activity of social welfare organizations be included for consideration in their priority guidance plan. we urge them to move with all deliberate speed to implement this recommendation. in closing, i want to again on behalf of the democratic side, and i think i' on behalf of allf us, thank the witnesses for

being here today and for discussing your experiences. please be assured as you testify, please be assured that we take seriously our responsibility to ensure that congress gets to the bottom of what happened, that those responsible are held accountable, and that safeguards are in place to ensure that this does not happen again. thank you. >> thank you mr. levin. again, thank you all for being here today. and thank you for the courage of stepping into the spotlight and giving voice to the hundreds of individuals are affected by this activity. the committee has received each of your written statement and they've been distributed. they will be made part of the formal hearing record. each of you will be recognized for five minutes for your oral remarks. we have a lighting system here.

the green light will go into you have 30 seconds remaining, then you'll be a yellow light and infrared light. after each of yo you give your l statement will then move into question. and so the members will each of them have five minutes to question you and they will be subject to the same lighting system. so at times i'm cutting that off, make sure that every member has an opportunity to have their five minutes. our first witness is kevin kookogey, founder of linchpins of liberty, a nonprofit dedicated to educating high school and college students about the nation's founding documents. is the father of six children and comes to us today from franklin, tennessee. mr. kookogey, you are now recognized for five minutes. if you want to touch the microphone button, please. thank you. >> thank you, mr. chairman. thank you to the honorable members of this committee. my name is kevin kookogey and the president and founder of linchpins of liberty which is an american leadership development in a prize. our motto is to challenge the imagination of the rising

generation. we do this by mentoring high school and college students in conservative political philosophy. we aim to mentor high school and college students by teaching them about the great books and about the foundations of america's moral and constitutional order. linchpins of liberty is one of those little platoons describe i alla toqueville, a local institution into to act as a check on the power of the state to moderate the despotism of the majority and to give people a taste for freedom and the skills to be free. we are committed to leader reid education and moral convictions that will allow citizens to maintain civil order. we aim to develop the moral imagination of the teaching of history and we believe that god is the measure of all things and that the soul is the essence of humanity. linchpin students learn how the greeks were unable to maintain freedom because of their pursuit of private gain at public expense, and they're squandering of resources on extravagance.

from cicerone, we learned the necessity of the rule of law. and we discover the true laws are in agreement with major. that virtue must not yield to power. linchpins of liberty is also inspired by augustine, the great philosopher of freedom the road that only in obedience to god do we find perfect liberty. we teach our students from george washington's farewell address we discover that religion and morality are indispensable support for political prosperity. for montesquieu we learned a positive law must conform to natural law, and that the republicans only be sustained by the virtue of its citizens. linchpins of liberty recognizes that the state is god ordained, necessary to protect against foreign enemies and that there can be no freedom without the law. but there are limits to the authority of the state. the government cannot be a law unto itself, and when the state usurps its legitimate authority

by interfering in the realms of speech, religion, conscience, family, association and ideas, we have a duty as human beings to ourselves and to our posterity to oppose and to protest the state's trespassing its limits. in order to raise money i found an obligation with the irs in january 2011 seeking to obtain 501(c)(3) status as an educational organization. as of today i've been waiting for 29 months without status. in the interim i lost $30,000 launch grant from a reputable nonprofit is executive director edifies me that he had never seen such treatment of a 501(c)(3) applicant in his 25 years of making grants. i also lost and continue to lose multiple thousands of my own money, and i have to cease any further official activity for fear of the irs target me for further harassment. for two and half years the irs

has unlawfully delayed and and obstructed by applications determination accident status by using unconstitutional criteria. the types of questions asked by the irs include asking me to identify the political affiliation of my mentors and that i advise the irs of my political position on virtually every issue of importance to me. for good measure i was asked to identify those whom i trained and not inform the federal government in detail what i'm teaching my students. considering that the mission of my organization is devoted to mentoring young people, some of whom are minors, can you imagine the reaction of the students parents were i to turn over the names of their children to the irs? and to what end? is it not conceivable i would be sued? with the irs threaten to audit the parents of those students? yet my failure to comply with a stunning inquiry would result in a denial of my application, or subject me to perjury.

moreover, contrary to the statements of lois lerner, the targeting of linchpins was not merit the act of a few agents in cincinnati. on december 312011 after numerous and repeated calls to the irs which went and returned, i finally reached agent ron bell in cincinnati. when i acquired of him as to why my application was taking so long, he said we've been waiting on guidance from our superiors as to your organization and similasimilar organizations. we've now received a guidance guidance and you will receive your answer on the first in first out basis. although linchpins of liberty is a 501(c)(3) and not a (c)(4) like many other organizations are today, we do share one common statement in and that is our ideas. linchpins of liberty exists to defend the cause of order of liberty. we reject the expansion of the state beyond its legitimate authorities and we regard human liberty. i respectfully urge and yield to

this committee today, which is a code equal branch o of the fedel government tested with authority in response to to check the powers of the executive branch. i would ask that you act with courage and moral resolve or in so doing, you will, the intent is that you will, sorry, i got, my time is running there. >> you may conclude. >> thank you. i would just ask that you would act with a moral resolve to check the powers of the executive branch because in so doing you will protect, defend, if in a preserve human liberty for ourselves and our posterity. thank you. >> thank you very much, trent lowe but our next witness is diane belson, laurens county tea party in south carolina. you are recognized for five minutes. >> thank you. and for having me today. my name is dianne besom, i'm the president of laurens county tea party. laurens county tea party is a social welfare organization that seeks to educate ourselves and our fellow citizens on various

issues pertinent to living in a free country out also worked to educate voters by vetting candidates and helping candidates for us during election years. we typically made once a month and hold an annual rally. we held our first tea party rally in april 2009 and then formally organized and incorporated with the state of south carolina in march 2010. on july 22, 2010, we filed for 501(c)(4) status with the irs and pay the application fee of $400. ..

>> when we received a communication from the irs requesting extremely burdensome additional information which includes the following: provide a copy of our articles of incorporation which we had sent with our initial application in 2010, information about all of our committees including legislative, educational and vetting and how much time and resources are devoted to these activities. they sent about 20 pages copied from our web site and wanted confirmation that these were, in fact, from our web site. then they wanted samples from any other social media sites including facebook. as for detailed information about all meetings, rallies and events with dates and names of speakers, agendas, any associated materials and if a

guest speaker made remarks concerning upcoming elections and whether our organization took a view on anything expressed and how much time or resources are devoted to these activities. they wanted to know how much time or resources were devoted to vetting candidates. the irs noted that our web site had a lot of videos of candidates running for local office. they wanted to know what offices the candidates were running for, which was stated in the videos, a list of all candidates for these offices and an explanation for those who didn't participate. copies of any written materials including invitations to the candidates, copies of any introductory statements made by us and copies of all questions asked of the candidates, whether the interviews were edited, a list of which interviews were posted on our web site, an extra nation for not -- explanation for any not posted. more questions were asked

including the date and elective offices for which it was held, a list of candidates and explanations for those who didn't participate, copies of opening remarks from us, who asked the questions, copies of all questions asked, copies of written materials including invites to candidates and advertising, whether the videos posted were edited and the percentage of time and resources devoted to these activities. then they also asked for a list of expenses for the past three years including any amounts expended in support of any candidate for federal, state or local office, which i might add is zero. since i was already aware that the irs was targeting tea party groups, i immediately contacted with aclj, and they agreed to represent us. never the less, it took hours of time, stress and aggravation. by the end of december, we had filed the requested information with the irs. then on january 31st, 2013, we

received a request for more information which included, again, a request for the articles of incorporation, copies of e-mails sent out on issues we deal with, plus copies from our facebook. so e-mails sent out to our group members, i provided quite a few of those. copies of free and paid ads places in papers, pictures submitted to local papers, press releases and materials for distribution. we complied with these demands on march 5, 2013, and it is now june 4, 2013, so nearly three years, and to date we have still heard nothing. i'd like to note that our group is a small time operation with very little money, and this represents a complete waste of time by the irs in terms of any money they would collect if we were not tax exempt. furthermore, nearly three years in waiting for an answer is totally unacceptable. the irs needs to be held accountable for its incompetence, harassment and targeting of conservative

groups. thank you. >> thank you, ms. belsom. our next witness is dr. john eastman, chairman of the national organization for marriage and a professor at chapman university school of law. dr. eastman, you're recognized for five minutes. >> mr. chairman, thank you for taking these issues so seriously. i'm the chairman of the center for constitutional jurisprudence, a public interest law firm, and i'm also on the board of directors at the act right legal foundation which serves as co-counsel for true the vote. filed a lawsuit just last week on their slow walking by the irs and their 501c4 status. but i'm here today in my capacity as chairman of the board for the national organization for marriage, because the conduct taken against that organization which had its 501c4 status conferred back in 2008 kind of takes us to a different level. in march of 2012, the confidential portion of our 990 tax returns including schedule b which is our list of major

donors and their home addresses, appeared on the web site of the human rights campaign, our principal political opponent in the nationwide fight over traditional marriage. the copy of our tax returns and our list of donors that was posted there was redacted. our computer forensic people were able to unlayer the redactions from that pdf file and discovered that the original document that was posted there had originated from within the irs. it had internal irs stamps that are placed on every document the irs receives that are electronically filed with the irs and placed on those documents by that computer system. we don't have a copy of the document with those irs stamps on them. those only exist within the irs. and yet this was posted on the web site of the human rights campaign. you can imagine we jealously guard our donors as almost every other nonprofit does,

particularly on the issues that we deal with that are so contentious that our donors once they are identified are tried to be chilled away from supporting the cause that we advance. this is unacceptable conduct in our democracy we immediately requested an investigation as well as the department of justice. the second request was filed because these are felonies that were committed against the national organization for marriage. it is a nonny, punishable by a $5,000 and up to five years in federal prison for the illegal disclosure, the unauthorized disclosure of one's confidential tax returns. we are a nonprofit, but that part of our tax return is as confidential as your individual 1040 forms. the tigda initially investigated us to try and determine whether somebody from our own ranks had disclosed our confidential tax returns, and when we pointed out

we didn't have a coup that had that -- a copy that had that irs stamp on it, that was the last we heard of the investigation. that was last summer of 2012. we then began filing a series of freedom of information act requests with the irs to try and ascertain some to have information that had been discovered during any investigation that had been had there. we were stonewalled in those freedom of information act requests. the irs told us that any documents they had would have been under the inspector general's jurisdiction, so they couldn't disclose them to us. when we pointed out we didn't ask for that, we asked what was in the file at the irs, their second response was we've already answered your request, we don't answer things twice. most stunningly, on may 3rd of this year in followup to a privacy act request where we asked for specific information that federal law allows us to request when there's been an investigation into disclosure of our tax returns, the inspector general's office told us that the identity of the source of

this felony against us was itself protected tax return information that they could not disclose to us. i ask you to think about the irony of that. there are a couple of things, it seems to me, that this committee could look at to help cure this problem. first, clarify that it's not the case that the prohibition against disclosure of our tax returns shields the culprit who committed that felony. second, we have no ability to bring a criminal prosecution for these felonies on our own, and yet the department of justice has not done so. there is a civil penalty provision that is available, but we can only bring a suit against the united states for $1,000 per one disclosure, not the hundreds of thousands that was done by the human rights campaign when they posted this on their web site. i would like to see a clarification of that provision that would hold the people, the individual irs official as well as their colluders that are nongovernment employees civilly

liable to the taxpayers. and finally, i think because the investigation has yielded nothing of information to us, i would ask this committee to consider subpoenaing the folks at the human rights campaign. find out who posted it on the web site. find out who introduced the redactions and hid the irs information. find out who received it from the irs. and most importantly, find out who from the irs disclosed this information. the head of the human rights campaign had recently been named the national co-chair of the obama re-election campaign. this just smells, and i hope this committee get toss the bottom of it. thank you for allowing me to testify. >> thank you, dr. eastman. our next witness is dr. cain kenney -- karen kenney, dr. kenney is a licensed psychotherapist practicing in southern california, and she assists returning veterans who suffer from ptsd.

dr. kenney, you're recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, mr. chairman. john adams knew that facts are southern things. -- sovereign things. they get used as tools or weapons, but they wait for us. we must seek them with the lamp of truth and put them into words, but you and i speak different languages in this republic. you speak the language of power be, of pen, purse and gavel. i speak american grassroots, the language of liberty, the providence, property and civic virtue. we seldom speak together about the rule of law unless it is ignored or violated. now is such a time. i have a story that bridges the distance between my state of california and this capital. what i say here must be said here. pilgrims brought to this continent a lamp of liberty. they persevered for righteous freedom.

we sit here in the shadows of washington, jefferson and lincoln. we visit here memorials to those who failed in service to this country. they persevered for righteous power. the spirit of patriots living in dead grants me the right to be here. it is my duty as an more americn citizen to speak here today. in october 2010 the san fernando valley patriots in california applied with the internal revenue service for a 501c4 status. we were then and remain a tea party group affiliated with the national tea party patriots. we heard nothing until february 2012 when i received a packet from the irs exempt organization's office in cincinnati, ohio, which included a questionnaire with 35 items divided into 80 subpoints of inquiry. a cover letter indicated we had 20 days to comply without penalty, including penalties of perjury for failure to answer

all questions with facts that are true, correct and complete. generally, the questions were a demand that read like the chilling words from the 1950s, are you now or have you ever been. the irs sought documentation of our rally, meetings, forums including audio, notes, copies of all handouts, the political parties of speakers and an issues list. the irs sought identifying information on employees, data on volunteers and members plus employer identification numbers on hiss with which we associate. these are our donors. they have names. mike, the printer who gave us a discount on handbills. dee, the beauty consultant who donated posters. and greg, the electrician who made a stand for our 9/11 banner out of pipes and wires. the irs sought details on our association of tax-exempt organizations. these are our teachers. they have names.

the heritage foundation, freedomworks and the national center for constitutional studies where we learn american history. the tea party patriots where we learn grassroots skills, and the west valley food pantry, our charity. the irs sought details of communication for our legislators. even in southern california, that is protected free speech. my personal favorite was question number 33 which in relation to protests asked for a living of our, quote: committed violations of local ordnances, breaches of public order or arrests. then requested details on how we conduct or promote illegal activities. i think the irs needs to fix its labeling machine. we're patriots, not occupy oakland. i stopped the costly and exhausting irs process in july 2012. we survive on my credit card and donations in our cake tin like patriots before us. we persevere. the voice of the republic resides in our citizens, not in

the tongue of government. more must grasp that self-evident truth. this dialogue is about the jack boot of tyranny upon the field of our founding documents, to whisper the letters irs strikes a shrill note on main street, usa, but when this behemoth tramples on america's grassroots, few hear the snapping sounds. now more people listen, but few who know the truth speak. this moment reflects a reality governance in america. this time we came to you. in time you will come home to us. this time we came for truth. in time the lies will fall. the voice of the people is the voice of god, it's irresistible but different in america. our voice belongs to the free individual, not to the collective mob. our voice is best heard when -- [inaudible] than whispers to liberty's strength.

and when liberty stands under heaven and shouts to power, freedom. thank you. >> thank you, dr. kenney. our -- excuse me, our next witness is mrs. susan mart neck, president for the coalition of life for iowa. she was founder and manager of a clothing alteration company. you're recognized for five minutes. >> good morning. >> your microphone, please. thank you. >> good morning. i'm sue martinique, president of coalition of life for iowa based in cedar rapids, iowa. coalition for life of iowa is a grassroots, low-budget public charity founded in 2004 to provide prayer, education and related activity about the sanctity of life from conception to natural death. throughout our history we have organized and sponsored educational forums and engaged in peaceful, prayerful

activities. in 2008 we sought 501(c)(3) tax-exempt recognition from the irs by filling a complete irs form 1023 application. i speak today so that what happened to us, the irs' demonstrated harassment, improper questions and intolerance toward our message may not happen to others. the irs' questions centered on our educational and potential political activities. our prayer groups and our signage. on april 27, 2009, irs agent ms. richards out of the cincinnati office sent me a letter asking about our educational forums, whether we were trying to influence legislation or influence political campaigns. we'd already answered, no, on the irs form 1023 application. i responded may 14th answering

all her questions fully. in subsequent weeks irs agent richards contacted me by telephone a few times asking more questions about our act kiths. activities. some questions i asked her she was unable to answer and would put me on hold and check with her superior or superiors. in june of 2009, ms. richards told me verbally that we needed to send in a letter with the entire board's signatures stating that under perjury of law we would not picket, protest or organize picket and protests outside of planned parenthood. upon receiving such a letter, she indicated that the irs would allow our application to go through. so we sent a follow-up letter to the irs respectfully requesting where in form 1023 or elsewhere it stated that we could not protest at planned parenthood.

the irs never answered our question. instead, the irs continued questioning us. on june 22, 2009, irs agent richards sent us additional written requests as follows: please explain how all of your activities, including the prayer meetings held outside of planned parenthood, are considered educational as defined under 501(c)(3)? organizations exempt under 501(c)(3) may present opinions with scientific or medical facts. please explain in detail the activities at the prayer meetings. also please provide the percentage of your organization that spends on prayer groups as compared with the other activities of the organization. please explain in detail the signs that are being held up outside of planned parenthood, and explain how they are considered educational. when we met at our next board meeting, we were all disappointed with the irs'

request. we had worked so hard to get the application correct. we had a local attorney skilled with this process helping us. we understood that we could hold up signs with educational information about abortion and the sanctity of life without the irs questioning the validity. we never thought we would have to defend our prayer activities. as christians, we knew we needed to pray for a better solution to unplanned pregnancy than abortion. why not at the source? personally, i wondered who fights the irs. what would the repercussions be? would there even be a hope to win? seriously focused on educational forums and not picketing or protesting, some board members were willing to sign the request letter, but others refused to sign a statement that unfairly restricted first amendment rights. we had very little funds. one board member suggested we

contact the thomas moore society, a public interest law firm. they help the little guy, and that was us, with legal problems. they took our case and found us an attorney that specializes in this area. fortunately, with their help and after we submitted a lengthy letter detailing the law and our constitutional rights, the irs granted us tax-exempt status just one week after our attorney, sally wagonmaker, sent in that letter to the irs agent richards. no more mention was made of the irs-required board statement about protesting and picketing outside of planned parenthood. we were fortunate, but we -- but not all our. our story has a happy ending. donors can claim charitable tax deductions for their contributions. with their help we can carry out our educational and religious activities to promote respect for human life such as the march

for life and 40 days for life. coalition for life of iowa seeks to save lives, help others and improve our community. may our story of the irs' overreaching spur reform of its practices, better treatment of our charitable constitutions and continued protection of first amendment right freedoms. thank you for letting me tell our story. >> thank you. our final witness is becky garrettson, president of the tecumseh tea party in alabama. you're recognized for five minutes. >> good morning. i'd like to begin with a brief statement. i know you're primarily interest inside the abuses of the irs, but i believe it's critically important that you understand not just what these abuses were, but what exactly the irs was trying to stifle. i need to explain how the

wefumpka tea party came into being. my husband and i had always been patriotic and deeply proud of our country. we've always felt that the united states is the greatest country in the world. in september 2008 when we had our first $700 billion bailout, we along with millions of americans were very concerned. that bailout was confirmation that our government was out of control. just a few months later, in january 2009, we learned that our government was going to spend another $787 billion. that money went to foreign nations, failing banks and unproductive industries. we were worried, and we knew we had to do something to sound the alarm. we knew that government had gone far beyond its habitual deficit spending. the government was mortgaging america's future. and we knew that washington wasn't going to stop by itself. in the spring of 2009, we learned that others were

organizing tea party events around the nation to educate and empower concerned citizens who believed their government was out of control, so we made our plans. my husband and i filled out a permit to meet at a local park in our small up to. my daughter and i walked through neighborhoods handing out flyers for our april 15th event. when the day arrived, we were blown away by the large crowd. a few politicians came also, but they didn't speak. we wanted to give ordinary citizens the chance to speak their concerns. our event had no party affiliation. i could not tell you if the attendees were republicans, democrats or independents. it didn't matter. the only political notion expressed was one that we collectively felt: that our representative government had failed us. and that was the birth of the wetumpka tea party. there are no dues, no price for membership. our events are mostly educational. whatever expenses are incurred are paid by donations and t-shirt sales. we are patriotic americans.

we peacefully assemble. we petition our government. we exercise the right to free speech, and we don't understand why the government tried to stop us. i'm not here as a serf or a vassal, i'm not begging my lord for mercy. i'm a born free american woman, wife, mother and citizen, and i'm telling my government you've forgotten your place. it's not your responsibility to look out for my well being and to monitor my speech. it's not your right to assert an agenda. the that you occupy exists to preserve american liberty. you've swore to perform that duty -- sworn to perform that duty, and you have faltered. the abuses i will discuss today occurred on your watch, and it's your responsibility to make sure it doesn't happen again. here are the facts of my case. we applied for a 501c4 in

october 2010. our $850 application fee was cashed seven days later. we received a letter from robert cho stating that our application and our user fee payment had been received. it also stated that we should be expecting to hear from someone within 90 days. however, the irs did not initiate any contact with us for another 459 days. that was when i received a letter from the cincinnati office dated february 3, 2012. that later -- that letter stated that they could not process our application until we completed the enclosed questionnaire which requested approximately 90 pieces of additional information about our organization. the questionnaire stated that if the additional information was not returned by february 24th, our case would be closed. the demands for information in the questionnaire shocked me. as someone who loves liberty and

the first amendment. i was asked to hand over my toe nor list, include -- donor list, including the amounts they gave and the dates on which they gave them. 501c4 organizations do not have to disclose donor information. i knew that. why don't they? among the demands that i found alarming and inappropriate were they wanted me to identify all of my volunteers. they wanted to know if any of our donors or volunteers had run or would be running for office in the near future. remember, this was the 2012 election cycle. they wanted us to identify the office they would be running for. they wanted us to provide detailed contents of all speeches ever given, the names of our speakers and their credentials. they wanted copies of written communications and contents of all other forms of communications to any legislative body. including my own representative. i was very uncomfortable with these questions, as you can imagine, and my husband and i

discussed forfeiting our application. however, within days of reading through these questions, we knew we were being targeted because fellow tea party organizers across this nation were getting the same types of letters and questionnaires. that was when we decided to seek legal counsel. on march 6, 2012, we retained the counsel of the american center for law and justice, and they represented us in this matter. two weeks later i received a letter from lois lerner dated march 16, 2012, asking that i provide the previously requested information. four months later we received a letter dated july 9, 2012, stating that we had been approved to receive our tax exemption. this was 635 days after we applied. in conclusion, the wetumpka tea party fell within the boundaries of receiving a 501c4 status, yet our application was singled out

solely because we had tea party in our name. government agents made invasive and excessive demands for information they were not entitled to. congressman camp and members of this committee, this was not an accident. this is a willful act of intimidation to discourage a point of view. what the government did to our little group in alabama is un-american. it isn't a matter of firing or arresting individuals. the individuals who sought to intimidate us were acting as they thought they should in a government culture that has little respect for its citizens. many of the agents and agencies of the federal government do not understand that they are servants of the people. they think they are our masters, and they are mistaken. i'm not interested in scoring political points. i want to protect and preserve the america that i grew up in. the america that people cross

oceans and risk their lives to become a part of. and i'm terrified it is slipping away. thank you. [applause] >> thank you very much. thank you. we'll now move in -- thank you all for your testimony. we'll now move into the question and answer period of the hearing, and i'll begin. um, on may 17th we heard from the inspector general that the irs had targeted certain americans on the basis of their personal beliefs, that they were subject to extraordinary delays and were asked inappropriate at best and unlawful at worst questions. i know, for example, mr. coo keyy -- coo die and ms. kenney you were pote asked to provide a list of all the issues important to your organization. ms. martinek, you were asked about prayer meetings including how they're considered

educational, and you were asked to explain in detail the activities at these prayer meetings and the percentage of time your organization spends on prayer meetings. and i'd like to ask the panel to elaborate. are the inspector general's report findings kilt -- consistent with your experience of targeting, delay and intimidation? mr. coo keyy, i'll start with you. >> yes, i would say that the inspector general's report are consistent. i don't think the inspector general's report, however, is deep enough yet. i think we have more evidence among us and not only this panel, but among other parties, organizations that it is much deeper. i think the ig has just scratched the surface. >> all right. ms. be belsom? -- ms. belsom? >> i didn't actually read the inspector general's report, so, um, so what exactly was your question? >> well, just if those things i mentioned, um, were those consistent with your experience?

>> um, you know, i think this certainly seemed like a gross overreach of the irs. >> all right, thank you. dr. eastman? >> you know, our organization didn't have those particular problems, but as our story has become more public, the number of communications i received seeking legal counsel have raised a concern that a lot of americans have expressed. is this limited to the irs1234 the stories -- irs? the stories about people having osha and atf and fbi starting investigations have got american citizens scared to death what their american government is capable of doing once they've crossed the threshold. this is the beginning of a thread on a sweater that is just unraveling, and americans are downright afraid of what's going on. we have got to restore the credibility of government as servants of the people rather than our masters as my colleague said. and the number of stories that i'm getting that indicates those greater concerns, i think, is

deeply troubling. >> all right. dr. kenney? >> in answer to your question, definitely yes. >> all right. ms. martinek? >> and yes also. they had asked us to, please, explain in detail the activities at our prayer meetings. also please provide the percentage of time your organization spends on prayer groups as compared with the other activities in our organization. >> i would agree with the ig report, but i was kiss turned. -- disturbed. on page 20 the irs listed seven questions that they deemed inappropriate. however, many of the questions that i was asked and others were asked like the contents of your prayers, some of the organizations that we've been involved with, they got questions asked about their family members. and the questions i mentioned about running for office. they don't deem those as inappropriate. so i think we need to go back and look at those questions, because most of them were

inappropriate. >> and, obviously, getting a letter from a federal agency asking for those detailed pieces of information about prayer meetings and these issues and what your family members are doing, and i read some of those questions, and obviously i came to the conclusion that the i are -- irs felt there was a right and wrong position on those issues and a right and wrong activity regarding prayer meetings, for example. what was your impression when you received those questions? and i'll start with you, ms. gerritson. >> like i said, when e received those questions, i felt defensive for one thing because i felt like that wasn't any of their business. i wasn't going to identify my volunteers. i was fearful for them. if their name was going to the irs, i know they would be scared. the questions were chilling. i was shocked that i was being asked those questions. >> all right.

ms. martinek? >> the most disturbing thing for us was having to agree that we would not protest or picket at planned parenthood. and since there was no similar request in the application, really we had no idea what they were even trying to control. if we went there in prayer, would that be considered picketing, protesting? it was very troubling. >> all right. dr. kenney. >> i immediately reached my target heart rate at that, when i opened the envelope, and i had anxiety, and i felt betrayed. absolutely betrayed. >> all right. dr. eastman? >> when our donors were disclosed, a number of them called us expressing concern about that. the effort seems to have been designed to subject our donors to abuse, to intimidation, to hold them accountable for donating in support of the cause of traditional marriage, to

boycott their businesses, to target their families and more significantly for our purposes, to chill them from donating again so we can keep up the political fight that we're in the middle of. there's an unbelievable chilling effect on what happened to us. >> all right. >> i think that our organization, um, the questions weren't quite as intrusive as some of the other groups. but i was just overwhelmed by the sheer level of minute detail that was being requested and to try and go back and track down all this kind of stuff, it was, you know, very difficult. it was a very stressful thing having to go through this. and, um, you know, at this point too now that i think about it, i was looking back through, i mean, this is the paperwork, my files. and when i look back through all this information that's been sent into the irs and i've heard about these, you know, 157 visits i believe it was between the head of the irs and president obama, i'm very

concerned. it just makes me very nervous about was my group being discussed? was our political activities being discussed? are we somehow targeted for this? and it's very chilling. >> all right. mr. kookegey. >> most disturbing to linchpins of liberty, keep in mind we work with them students, some of them minors, seventh graders. that the irsing would ask to know the -- irs would ask to know the identity of those students is unbelievably, unconscionably chilling. >> at this same hearing that i mentioned earlier on may 17th, then-acting commissioner steve miller summed up the irs' action as horrible customer service. now, i know that i certainly take a different view of that, as i'm sure many members of this committee do. and his quote was: i will admit that, we did horrible customer service. whether it was politically motivated or not is a different question. i would say, dr. eastman, if you

had a bank and you disclosed confidential customer information, would you call that horrible customer service or something else? >> i would call it a felony as the federal law calls this a felony. >> all right. >> and i would hold the people who committed those felonies accountable. i would bring indictments, i would open up civil liability to the taxpayers that were affected. the damages are incalculable, and i would prosecute those people responsible. >> all right, thank you. mr. levin is recognized. >> thank you very much. let me just say a few things in response to your testimony. i do think it's our obligation to get the facts and not deal in conjecture. indeed, i think the more we deal with conjecture, the less likely we are to get the facts. so let me just say to you,

ms. martinek, i think we very much disagree about the work of planned parenthood. that's my guess. but i must say that the question about whether you were picketing or protesting before planned parenthood was totally worse than inappropriate. you should not have been asked that. and as personnel of the irs are inquired of, i would think that may be looked into. mr. eastman, let me just say to you this issue was raised at the hearing with the inspector general, and he indicated, mr. miller indicated in response to a question from you, mr. chairman, about the donor list

that he said he believe -- i believe we made a referral to the inspector general. he was later asked about that, and he said, i quote: those two situations we went to, the igta -- tigta, and i think mr. george can speak to what we found, what they found. we made the referrals, and i believe what they found was that those disclosures were ip add very tent and that there had been discipline in one of those cases for somebody not following procedures, but i will, i will, obviously, let mr. george speak to that. that was his testimony. and then our chairman asked mr. george about that, and it would appear from his testimony that it was being with investigated by the inspector general.

and that's all we know about it at this point. whether it continues to be investigated. so i just want to emphasize. i said in my opening statement that we also need to look at the lance armstronger issue of 50 -- larger issue of 501c4s in the statutory language in the regulation and how, in fact, it's now being utilized. but i want to finish by just reading the last part of my opening statement. please be assured, and we said this to each one of you and to the american public, please be assured that we take seriously our responsibility to insure that congress gets to the bottom of what happened, that those responsible are held accountable

and that safeguards are in place to insure that this does not happen again. we will do that. we surely on the democratic side will do that. i trust on a bipartisan basis we'll work together to do that. thank you. >> thank you. thank you. mr. johnson is recognized. >> thank you, mr. chairman. thanks for holding this important hearing. the american people want, need and deserve to know the truth, and it's our responsibility to demand it and hold those responsible fully accountable. i also want to thank the witnesses for sharing your stories. mr. chairman, i was particularly struck by the testimony by several of the tea party witnesses. as you know, mr. chairman, back in my district it appears the -- [inaudible] patriots who advocate for fiscal responsibility, the rule of law and federal government have also been a target of the irs. back in july 2010 the group applied for 501c4 status. as of today, that group has yet

to receive a final response. that's absurd. be it's been nearly three years in february 2012 the irs sent the patriots a set of 19 questions including such onerous and irrelevant ones relating to the employment of the group's key officials. mr. chairman, i'd like to submit for the record the cbs/dfw news story entitled two conservative groups targeted by the irs. and let me just say what it says here. the irs wanted a list of all their volunteers, everything they did, it wanted an accounting of every dollar donated and what it spent -- what it was spent on. it wanted rors of every speaker of the group it ever hosted and flyers they might have handed out. may i submit that for the record? >> without objection. >> thank you. the pattern of intimidation

towards certain americans is, quite frankly in my view, un-american. the bottom line is the irs has been used as a political weapon. you know, ms. kenney, i understand you work with veterans returning from combat with posttraumatic stress disorder, and as a veteran, i'd like to start off by saying thank you for doing that. ms. kenney, can you describe your work? >> i work with veterans who have been deployed through iraq and iran -- rather, iraq mostly. the desert community and their families. the toll that deployment takes on the families is extraordinary. i work with a therapy dog. i'm going to cry. i see people that are untouched. no one goes up and hugs a soldier unless they're family. but i have this one guy, see, and he goes where's my dog? he picks the dog up in the entire session, he pets my dog.

little lady. they are on the front lines, and everyone on this panel has their back. and i hope you do too. >> yes, ma'am. well, as you know, i was in the military, and i understand that. thank you for doing that. considering the selfless work you do, did you ever think you would have to deal with pages and pages and pages of intrusive questions from the irs? and when you come home from a day of helping our troops who protect us every minute of every day, i bet the very last thing you want to do is deal with onerous questionnaires from the irs. can you talk about the burden of the irs questions and how many there were? >> the burden of the questions on me personally was extraordinary. i think i could have bought stock in kinkos because there were almost 200 pages of documentations, leaflets, agendas. i have one here because they

asked about do we have candidates of pretty much only a certain party. this is the list of candidates that i invited for one of our candidate forums. both democrats, republicans, back and forth. i heard nothing from any of the democrat candidates, not even an rsvp regrets. and only of the republicans if they couldn't come, they sent their presentation. and so did the libertarians. our group is primarily educational. that's what we -- we've operated as a 501c4. ..

for you to answer this question. i thank you for being here and thank you for the great work you do to help our veterans. i appreciate you standing up for them as they stand up for us. thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you. mr. rangel. >> thank you, mr. chairman. let me thank each and every one of you for making that effort to come here to point out where our government has let us down. and in helping us to understand the problem with those people who directly and adversely affected so we can better do our job. and i don't want to forget, ms. kenney, and everyone that is listening, what have you can do for the veterans, whatever anyone can do to help those people who put their lives at

stake, and they're coming home to joblessness and homelessness. i want to commend you, as did my colleague, congressman johnson, for what you do, and hope that it's an encouragement for everybody can do something. now, with the irs most of us know that this is an experience, telephone call from the irs, somehow historically it's a very, very uncomfortable feeling. and i hope all of you would agree that the 90,000 people that work for the internal revenue service are dedicated, hard-working, civil servants. but we have found a cancer someplace in cincinnati. and we have to find out what

caused this so that no americans would be subject to the type of discrimination that some of you, and many others who are not here, have suffered. and we have to make certain that it doesn't happen again, but even more important, to try to find out just how many people were contaminated by the presence of those people that has done this to our country. that i think you would agree we have to find criminal intent. we don't know how anyone could do something like this and just think it was in the ordinary course of business. but i as a former federal prosecutor, and you as a doctor and a lawyer and a former clerk to a member of the united states

supreme court knows that, i've been trying to get this same information that you spoke of in your testimony, and they said this is all being investigated, and you know, it could lead to a grand jury inquiry. and i think that if you and i kept in touch with each other i would be satisfied with you following whether or not our government is actually pursuing this investigation in a manner that you as an american could be proud that this branch of government intends to do the job that is expected of us. and so, i don't want these hearings to just as and and guide and administration. but more important to indict these civil servants they go to work everyday for the taxpayers. and i just want to close with

doctor eastman and saying when it comes to political support, those people know i'm a democrat, to the mayor of my bones. but what makes our country great is that everybody wants a better country and loves the country, and we need all of these views, whether they came over with the pilgrims or whether they can some other way. we are here to improve the quality of life for our country and be a beacon for democracy for the entire world. and i don't know what our political system can afford to be using charitable organizations to get candidates elected. and i only ask you this as a professor of constitutional law, dr. eastman, and the fact that people's identity should be confidential if it concerns

their activity. but if you're a democrat, hey, put it out there. if you're republican, put it out there. if you're making contributions, do it, be proud of it. but it just sounds, dr. eastman, like an undercover thing to take an organization that is supposed to be primarily for the public good and be giving political campaign funds to. what is your view, dr. eastman? >> and doctor easton, you have to respond briefly because the time has expired. >> if you want to get rid of all the tax-exempt status and create a level point about way, that's fine. but what is and hope that one set of rules for one side of the political fight in of several for another. and quite frankly, what's happened to national or recession for marriage donors, the level of intimidation is going on against them is starting to rival what went on, the supreme court -- there's a reason some people want to have their activities confidential.

because so that they don't get harassed and intimidated out of participate in the political process. and when it rises to the level of naacp versus alabama, i think it's important that we help protect that confidentiality the law provides a people are not shield away from exercising their constitutional rights. >> thank you. time has expired, mr. rangel. mr. brady is recognized. >> our first hearing revealed a number of significant abuses of potential abuse of power by the irs, including targeting donors and organizations based on their political beliefs, leaking private taxpayer information to the media, to outside groups, perhaps the campaigns. concealing that program for almost two years and then misleading congress. in a thorough deliberate investigation ought to begin by listening to the victims of those abuses of power. so thank you all for being here. ms. martinek, small business owner in the midwest, housewife,

concerned citizen of alabama, you two are -- but how frightening is the government so powerful that it can target you, an average american citizen, for simply expressing your constitutional views in one thing to be engaged in this republirepublic was how frightes that policy? >> well, for me, it was very frightening here i didn't think we had a hope to even, to try and stand up to it. personally i thought we would just have to sign a letter and get our 501(c)(3) if we didn't have the 501(c)(3), yeah, some of our donors maybe wouldn't contribute to it. so the power the irs had over us and over the success of our group by not granting this. and fortunately some of our

board members were wrong about and they would not give up the first amendment right. and even though we're not about protesting, that's not what we're about. we're about education. we are about praying for and to abortion but some of our members when they're praying at planned parenthood do like take assigned, but that's very small. but still we didn't want to give up the right that we have the people to do that. but fortunately we have some attorneys that helped us. but it was we didn't have the attorneys i don't know what would've happened. >> thank you. ms. gerritson? >> i don't know, it's very hard to put in words how scary it is when a huge government and a government agency can, after an individual or a small organization,, i think what is most alarming and what is the most scary is that when you allow the government to go so far and you don't stop them, they go farther. and it just pretty soon we're in

tyranny and it's hard to put into words, but it looks like, but using these agencies as a weapon against citizens feel scared and it feels like to be. be. >> exide to what are about. the white house continues to claim all this was done by couple of rogue employees in cincinnati. deeply the leaking of your personal taxpayer information was done for contained a few rogue employees in cincinnati? >> no, i don't, represented the brady. and let me respond to represented levens comment. it wasn't in the burden somewhat redacted at dinnertime information that just came from the irs. it wasn't inadvertent discount or political opponent. this wasn't someone dropped a piece of architecture to out on the sidewalk in its early. they provide our donor list of the very political opponents of ours had been seeking that information for a long time but if that's inadvertent the word no longer means anything. >> ms. belsom, concerned citizen the south to lead, mr. kookogey,

in addition to being an attorney who teaches civics class. did either of you believe this could happen in american? did you ever imagine that the government could target you like this? >> i mean, you know, that wasn't something i was thinking about. i don't live in the free republic, but honestly i feel like our country has turned a corner into tyranny and i've honestly have lost sleep over, just being in fear of what our government might do next. >> in my situation actually we teach about this very thing. the irony is that it's happening right under our noses so it's a good lesson are my students albeit a frightening one. >> probably when you didn't include in the lesson plan originally, being notified for your political beliefs. >> we did not. >> we have a lot of work to do. it is going to be deliberate. it's very important we hear from you, so thank you all for being here today.

mr. chairman. >> thank you. mr. mcdermott. >> thank you, mr. chairman. freedom of speech is no doubt one of our most important fundamental rights. it's unacceptable in everywhere for a government agency to unfairly scrutinized any organization because of their political affiliations. thy rest is unequivocally made a mistake year. i'm sorry your organizations were singled out like this, well i think was a case of foolish account management and dangerously chosen shortcuts, i will not hesitate to say the irs was wrong. but as i listen to this discussion, i would like to remind everyone what we're talking about here. none of your organizations were kept from organizing or silenced. we are talking about whether or not the american taxpayers will subsidize your work. we're talking about a tax break. if you didn't come in and ask for this tax break, you would've

never had a question asked of you. you could go out there and say anything you want to the world. i get the feeling that many of my repelled and colleagues just don't believe, or believe you should be free from political targeting but that you should be free from any scrutiny at all. the purpose of a c-3 or (c)(4) tax exemption is to enable easier promotion of public goods, not political words. it is the responsibility of the irs, which groups are choosing the correct exit status and which are trying to manipulate the system to avoid taxes and high political organization and campaign donors without oversight, a status meant for charities becomes a machine for political money laundering. do you think that is far-fetched? you've got to talk to speaker gingrich. speaker greg richmond 1987 was

fined $300,000 by the ethics committee of the house of representatives for funneling money from the opportunity fund into a pack of which he was chairman to promote the takeover of the house and a rouse republican activists. now, that's what happens when you don't ask questions. each of your groups is highly political from opposing the presence health care reform to restrictions to gay marriage. you're all entrenched in some of the most controversial political issues in the country. and with your application, you are asking the american public to pay for that work. many of you host and endorse candidates, between political activities and non-permitted political activity can be very fine.

and it's important to the taxpayers, the taxpayers know which side you fall on. if there were an organization promoting taxpayer funding for abortions, wouldn't you want to know what they were using that political money for? or for what candidate they were backing? what about a group that wanted to promote voting without ids? a what if in the midst of a few years ago it was an increase of communist candidates in this country, a new time in his clubs want to be tax exempt? wouldn't you want to be sure that the self-declared tax reclassification of those groups was correct? the mistake year was that the staff organizing your organizations using names of the organizations rather than the work they do, and asked him proper questions to figure that out. it's clearly wrong. it was inept, stupid come at a whole o