you? most of the people in television have made so much money they can go off to do nothing. eat he did not write this for many -- many one of the best writers especially in local news but you always were a good writer but you wrote in the short form but what compelled you to tell your story? >> i had no idea about writing a book and had never thought about it when i retired five years ago for the first time. [laughter] like the michael jordan of

local television. [laughter] my business retirement is compulsory. [laughter] as the hair gets gray the less management wants you to be a part of the team but the first time i retired i was ready after 45 years in the business i just went off thinking about myself under so many years of such severe deadline said never got a chance to think about what i was doing to myself and what i did for others to know and the more i thought about it the more i took notes about things and my memory came back and went over things i had done in my career since was very young starting in 1963 and as i continue to write my notes, i felt to try to put it into a book. it is not like your book or

others it is not a look at chicago politics but the inside story of my 50 years in the business. i would describe it as a cathartic experience that turned into print. >> one of the distinguishing things about this book it has a sharper eye and sharp tongue about the changes in the business of news. you do not pull any punches, walter. explain these people who will buy your book roughly in 40 minutes. [laughter] what they have not been for the best? >> they have gone up and down there are times the changes were positive technically of course, but television news now is not being as we were even dreaming of doing back then but on the other hand,, i don't want to be too critical it is my life for 50 years but i do have strong feelings how local television news in

particular focuses too much on the sad side of stories and every night you turn on the news it 10:00 with another drive-by shooting it gets tiresome and does not make a point* and we don't have time in television that you cannot take the time to tell a story that ought to be told with any kind of depth. that is a serious change too much sex and hollywood and famous people coming through town. most people these days turn on the television to get the weather because they don't get the information and sports but that is very sad and i see it to get worse. >> throwing both of you into this, it occurs to me that most of us who watch television and pretension to chicago politics, the people in chicago politics are in the main mostly defined by the images projected through

television. know what i know i doubt if you read the 700 pages of the parking contract. [laughter] i bet you have. [laughter] is that true? of the image of richard daley to my mind is that image. >> that is very true and walter has a great story with the exclusive and he took you out in his car to put a camera on the front and it tore through this city and daily talked about the neighborhood and i think your point* that he agreed to do that because he wanted the pictures on tv. i think the pictures could be very powerful and some politicians such as daily are pretty skillful about what image.

>> about managing their image. >> one of the things i think is interested -- interesting about daly he became less moos talking in public and i think he did it in purpose. and he has given speeches and there are very good in very thoughtful and he is quite eloquent then you see pictures of him later quirky is not. i think it was an active so they asked you're a tough question aid to give them a blah, blah, blah answer then your feet are not held to the fire so i think in a very savvy way in public portrayed himself as being less marty and tough-minded than he was in private.

>> what do you think about that? >> as a journalist to have to learn tricks to get someone like davy who is shy and not interested to talk to the media, not trusting of the media as his father was not trusting as well so we have to learn how to guide them into a situation in a way to let it them give his side of the story when i called to ask if i could ride around town i was told absolutely not i said he has everything to gain because the image was there if i don't use the time to nail that to get him in the car then he cannot get out. [laughter] so my approach was i have not seen you on television. you always talk about your neighborhood that is what is important so right about your knowledge and i should say it is important for a

reporter to always understand the idea is not to right or get on television something about the reporter or even how the reporter does it. give the guy a chance to talk for better or worse let him say whatever he wants to say. make interviews like john wayne gacy go to death row to talk to the man he once to say he is innocent. i don't care about what he says i want to hear what he thinks about what he will say and that is what we apply to getting interviews with the mayor. even with on a manual although he is the most difficult. [laughter] >> we will get to him shortly. [laughter] >> keith, you offered richard m. daley the chance to speak on the record about his wife and career and he turned you down on some level that is it disappointing but not a surprise?

>> i hoped he would chat with me but when you think it through i do think he is a very savvy man and politician. and richard nixon used to talk about plausible deniability. there was no upside to him talking to me. if you would talk to me and i wrote a book he did doglike then it is hard for him to say i don't like the book were as i write a book he did not like and he never talked to me he could say i don't even know the guy. he wanted to reserve the right to say he did not like the books. >> what has he said? >> nothing publicly. [laughter] >> what do you hear? you have private sources you interviewed about 140 people? what do you hear? >> i have heard nothing official but unofficially close friends have come to talks like this and bought the book and asked me to

sign it simic anybody ask you to sign it to rich? [laughter] >> no. they have not. >> if any of you have an on trade to rich daly. [laughter] >> this is a rare opportunity to compare father and son. >> that is tough. >> i believe they are in comparable the motivation and motivation is entirely different the father wanted and needed to control anything from the process of government to working inside the democratic party. the sun understood that led to a lot of bad publicity for the older guy and took a step away from the inner workings of the democratic party. he was never chairman, his dad was. the young one did not do as much politics as the older

one did. but in terms of expressing themselves there was a similarity, in terms of their love for the city, i believe it, they were the same and really did care. both of them. favor not is interested simultaneously or comparatively and how the government operated as they were in getting things done for the city. that is a fair thing to say but i am hesitant to be too quick with judgments but i want to be accurate. by the way my concern to deal with both dailies and this for personal experiences, i was concerned people who were thinking big thoughts about the mayor's the chicago who are really interested in who they are and what they did and watched television news or interested in reading

politics are very negative to me. i wanted to be very careful to not say things that somebody would say we told jacobson he was wrong on that and here is a fact he looks but it is not. i had to be very careful about that. >> but it is hard to argue with him but during working hours? >> i don't think either of them care very much, i do you? >> that is an interesting question. would richard j. davey the to the kids or throw his plate of aids against the wall? i don't think so. i think both of them, you

are right, walter, they are disdainful of the press. >> did you find that in your research who gives a ship attitude? was richard m. daley bothered by calling him there short shanks. [laughter] >> i don't think so but to have a skin then they try to manipulate the media to serve the political end but one of my team since the book i sink of the song of his father's accomplishments and mistakes and i think he lives in his father's shadow as all politicians did of his generation but when he came to power he was careful not to repeat the mistakes of his father. this then try to work on a

race relations and his father made a huge mistake but the son tried to improve and the father had been criticized deeply for not taking care of the public school and similarly for public housing we could debate if that worked out or not. >> the interesting thing about public housing is that richard m. of virtually erased richard j. public-housing notion which i find wrong on every level. >> it is tragic. of high-rise was tragic the sun looked at the father race relations, a school, housing, i will not be chairman of the democratic party by the way my father totally messed up at the 1968 dnc when rich was 26 years old and old enough to remember. he had a chance to do it in

chicago totally different let the protesters protest and it went snooze so he tried to finish the unfinished business of the daley family. >> who has a bigger legacy in this town? i know it seems more immediate. >> the legacy is positive or negative but i think in terms of the size richard j. is they don't make them like that anymore and i personally am not as huge fan of the first mayor of the things he did a good job through 63 i would give him a letter a but 63 to 76 i think he did a horrible job and i would give him a letter f. i think the first mayor daley have a large and controversial legacy and for his son it is too early to say but in the books i tried to tell the whole story so people can decide for

themselves. >> you knew them both and lived in the city and from the area, what about the legacy? >> i think as society grows a little with a jay and the politicians of the past begin to disappear with our focus the legacies change we don't know was much, ito but most people don't even remember the father and what he did and how he operated we're much more interested in the sun and now we're focused so much on rahm emanuel you see the average daley has disappeared which i know he likes a lot not to be badgered all the time i think he is in heaven right now but rich daley's legacy will be tied so much more

directly with who succeeded him it is so is the comparison between rich and wrong and how carefully he has to be not to undermine his legacy and that bothers him to a great extent. but so tough and arrogant and a difficult sometimes. >> which one? [laughter] >> i don't think rich delaware lay is eric gan but rahm emanuel is a tougher politician. >> walter jacobson the most interesting multifaceted politician you have covered in you're 50 years in this business? >> the most fascinating? i would have to put up there a list of several i thought dan rostenkowski but what was interesting to us was not the kind of thing generally knew people who

watch what we do my interest was personal. i was not able to and did not want to stand back to look with a greater degree of perspective. i would like to get involved on a personal level so rostenkowski and rahm emanuel is certainly one of the most interesting and will be there at least another term if he does not move on. i believe he does not want to go to the white house this is as even the father said the greatest job in the world if you happen to be from chicago i would much rather be mayor they and the u.s. senator or president. [laughter] but. >> what about jane? >> oh boy.

[laughter] it is amazing how she could fall from memory so fast. she was a fabulous character to cover as a reporter there were so many exchanges negative and positive between the press and she really knew what she was doing. she had people who were telling her exactly how many people watched the 10:00 news and on which channels and she used that information to give us information when she wanted it out and was told it when she didn't. she was very interesting and can you use the word fine? [laughter] >> that is one of the reason she made a horrible stake to marry the newspaperman. i remember it being at their wedding instead of a ty he wore a green ribbon.

jane is a huge player in the life of richard m. daley and must have made a run at her. >> i forget how old she is and she lived on lakeshore drive and i called her apartment. one of the interesting things that i was raised in catholic grade school and they teach you never tell a lie because it is too hard to remember. everyone i would interview high with os tell the truth and the same thing and it was much easier for me to keep track of so i called jane in her apartment and she answered the phone and i said i am writing a book on chicago politics and you are a very important person i would love to interview you and it is all true. she said sure. let me go get my calendar. you could hear her go down the hall in her slippers and

you could hear her have the old calendar and say i have some days. whether you thinking? i said i am flexible she said before you tell me the dates what is the book about? i said i am writing a biography of richard daley and the phone went. [laughter] and she hung up on me and i called back and she did not answer. >> how big a part did she play? >> a major part? >> she was an important figure full of spirit and life and more politically but a personality as an individual and she was a protege of the first mayor daley and actually she was co-chairman of the county democratic party when the first mayor daley died which was quite unusual for a new

pullman in the '70s. she knew the first mayor daley very well. by all accounts rich daly was jealous to be honest about jane's relationship with his father. the feelings were pretty strong both ways and they were rivals politically and had strong feelings against each other and it led each of them to make miscalculations in their career because of their feelings about each other were so strong. >> the first mayor daley made jane the politician that she was and if not for merrick daley number one, really wanting to have jane byrne go ahead in her career she never would have made it. says sons did not even know how much he liked jane he would move furlong in her career and would call her janie and she was very

disappointed when he stepped out of the pitcher and she thought perhaps that would be a time for her to recede after going so far. they were so close. the boys, the party, even the suns did not like the fact he was turning things over to jane byrne. tell me if i am wrong but i think he had in mind she would one day become mayor. >> i really had a crush on her. i really did and when she was younger was quite to the dish. [laughter] let me ask you both to bring up the notion of women in those politics and the media here when walter started shortly before i did, the

chicago daily news if they went on i tripp, a very male-dominated business. talk about that. >> i keep saying the boys in the democratic party and had nothing to do with them they could not understand why he would give her a chance to move ahead and they did not like her and don't forget this is a very strong male chauvinistic city. with that irish catholic. >> that women belong in the household and the first mayor daley made it very clear to all of our surprise that that is not true. jane byrne and women should be more involved.

>> no kidding. it goes to the point* that i don't think so many needs to read the biography of maggie daley to get the full reid of influence she had enriches life and without success taking politics out of the house they do not become who they are. >> i agree. i know more about him than her vichy was a positive influence on her husband as a person but also some of that because he was a powerful figure the way he became reflective of the city mayor daley love to travel she took a lot of trips like paris and other places with a positive influence and he would come back we should do flowers flowers, boulevards, parks

flowers, boulevards, parks, and she was a culture to things like theater and a fine cultural sense which i think rub off on her husband in positive ways. he was a late bloomer about some things but in his 50s and 60s developed a real appreciation for them and because he was a powerful man he could support theater in chicago or other things. i thought it would balance and out to make him probably a better person individually but also a better mayor. >> we have a business that is a love-hate relationship with the people we cover and we try very hard to be fair bet we fall in love with these characters with whom we are working on a daley basis and always in combat. i went to ireland because unwanted to get a feel what

the daley family and sisters were like. i traveled around the town that the parents grew up in looking for people just because i wanted to meet dan and i went to the cemetery to see what the graves were like and the setting because i wanted to feel. i loved the guy. i did not like what he did sometimes the same with a rich but there was something about them and chicago and meat and chicago that made me want to feel literally wore them learn about who they were. >> thinking? i had forgotten you had went to ireland to get that sense. did you go to ireland? >> i did not. but i hindustan the feeling.

-- by understand the feeling but sometimes you think of them in terms of the job but they are people as well. one of the things the average daley as the person he has a great love of chicago that i fine as an attractive quality and as running a big city it became one of his most important political assets for many years between 1989 and 2003 a lot of voters voted for him even when they disagreed because he loves the city in has their best intentions and our hearts even if i disagree but he loves the city. there were some scandals and decisions made where chicago

when said but i thank you saw his approval ratings were reflected in a deep spiral but this love of the city was very important. >> it is the media that determines what is good and bad for the city but what we write and say what people here. we're the ones who determine what is news and what isn't and that is the hardest part. i think mayor daley has been angry at the way the media has treated him and many instances it is unfair. >> you think anybody living in circumstances in austin

do what they would? no. it became a big story because we wrote about it and put it on tv and it was like a big construction project. it is a really good story but i guarantee. >> am i the only one who thought what the mayor did was a great thing? >> yes. >> i loved the way he went in there to justin do with. [laughter] smith that shows how few of us. [laughter] >> the media has always said he did it in the middle of the night when really it was 10:00 in the evening. [laughter] >> i will give the opportunity for some of you to ask questions. but i want to devote five minutes to the subject and i will tell you the subject of

keith koeneman next book and the name is rahm emanuel. how was that going so far? [laughter] >> i meet with him every day for a couple of hours. >> i will just compare the two books. my first is a history starting 1902 through 2011 and covers 100 years of the daley family and chicago history. . .

that covers the first three years of the administration starting in may 2011 to go to may 2014 but that's also going to be sort of a rough draft sketch of. periods of his life that help the reader to understand how he became to be who he is today. so more of a journalisjournalis tic feel, more very personal feel to it. >> that the big undertaking. it becomes dated by the time to get to the period at the end of this sentence. he is so volatile and so involved in everything. it's like the title, and living with ron fast and furious. [laughter]

>> i don't think so. because it's in the first person i feel certain in some ways he can't be wrong. it's actually an easier book to write then daly. they would say what did you think and you could say well walter jacobson was great and i really enjoyed walter jacobson but then i went to this other talk and i didn't enjoy it so much and here's why didn't enjoy it. that is how you feel about it. there's no way can be wrong. that was your take on printers row. >> is this usc publishing? walter, what about you? do you have this essential well-written and interesting book? do you have another book in you? >> oh my -- come i'm not going to write another book. >> this is your one and only chance to have walter jacobson on your bookshelf. >> i'm trying to decide what to do. i have been retired again for three months.

>> that's not long. >> that journalism in this town is such a wonderful thing and there is so much going on and so many different ways to cover. i want to somehow stay involved. definitely not a book. this is not a book about chicago. this is a book about how i grew up in business and what it's like inside the business. how we decide which stories to cover, how we decide which reporters to cover them, how we handle the troubles we have with the politicians who don't like what we are saying. >> and at what it was like to be a cubs batboy. [laughter] >> that was interesting too. >> how about some questions from you seemingly smart people? there is a microphone right there. here comes somebody. >> i was wondering if you could comment on the whole olympics thing and how not getting it seemed to be the beginning of the end for mayor daley and all

that went into that and whether you thought it was a good idea in the first place? >> i don't think, i'm not one who believes in the loss of the olympics was the beginning of the end of daley. he put his heart into that and we should have won the olympics. there was a great deal of politics involved in that decision. i don't think -- do you think it had much to do with daley coming or going? >> i think it was three factors. that was one of them. i don't know what you folks do for living that my experience is it's always nice to have a big exciting project to look forward to because it's good to have something to look forward to. i think if we would have won the olympics that would have been the big exciting project. >> was still mayor. >> i think you would have enjoyed it so having lost the olympics he didn't have a big exciting project on his desk. his approval ratings were at

35%. i actually think he was eatable. if realm would have run i think from what they beat him. >> can you imagine realm running against richard m. daley? >> yeah i could. [laughter] and then finally i would say he had surpassed his father and become the longest-serving mayor in the history of chicago and i think that was important to him personally and by staying for another four years you can get that notch in your bell twice. >> and wanted to ask -- especially recently with the chicago sun-times laying off all of the photographers and probably the question whether not are we hanging to a one newspaper town? what is your perspective? what you like about the current state and what you don't like. >> that kerned what? >> the current state of the media itself especially with

social media seemingly taking things over. >> i'm sorry. >> that current state of the media. sometimes layoffs given all mayor -- manner of things. i will give an answer. >> you will be a good one to answer that. desperate print media is on the way out. i was in new york last week and weekend before talking about "the new york times" actually closing down. the web, the internet has just taken over for the newspapers and everything now is in digital form so it's a badghad time for print journalism i think and it's not a good time for television journalism either. it's about time for journalism in terms of the money to sustain it. that isn't to say it's about time for things going on because there's so much to report. in fact there's more to report than there's ever been before

over the years but i think the outlook for the media is pretty grim. and that's very bad for all of us. >> i agree. i could go on but i'm not going to go on for 20 minutes. i think it's shameful what happened to the sun-times photographers. i mean shameful and i think whatever amount of money they might've been saving when they were sitting in a room saying well if we fire all of these guys how much could we save here? someone said maybe it would be $2 million. and then i thought you were willing to risk the embarrassment and shame worldwide? this was news in shanghai. that is a spike in the heart of all media and what's going to happen i don't know. the koch brothers will by the tribune, who knows? it's a time when someone needs to come up with a way to fund

journalism. journalism is not going to die. it's impossible, it's not going to die but someone has to figure out a way. >> we will be funded. >> what do you think a newspaper really is worth? 600,000 people by the "chicago tribune." [applause] i think there's some hope for newspapers and that not everybody wants a hamburger goes to mcdonald's. they're people who say i'm going to have a hamburger at gibsons. one day you're going to, you're absolutely right, you're going to have to pay for what advertisers have been subsidizing all these these years. spoon what spooler what do you think when you walk to it you stand anyone to read "the new york times" and you see the price on it is $6.50 and you say i don't want to spend that on a newspaper? they are really suffering. all the media right now doing much more firing than hiring.

if you walk through some of the television stations you see they are barren. there just aren't enough people. >> the only reason you don't think of the new york times is worth $6.50 is because you haven't been paying attention. when you can get "the new york times" and anybody's going to tell me "the new york times" is not worth the cost of a beer at the corner tavern is crazy. you have just been getting it virtually for nothing all this time. that's all. yes or? >> i want to quick comment and i want to thank mr. jacobson. recently within the last year i hear commentary and i have to thank you regarding a community in chicago and that's the italian-american community. you have made some comments that really i've found profound and had an impact on me and i was almost in tears and that you hit it so much on the head regarding this whole half a century

stereotype and to emphasize some of the contributions of a small ethnic community that you brought to life. i just have to thank you. only you and father greeley rest his soul would go in that area and talk about contributions as opposed to those old-time organized crime myth. i have to thank you for that mr. jacobson. >> thank you. [applause] >> that said thing about walter not doing this is this was a rare thing on television. years ago you had o'connor doing commentaries. this is an important thing and it's vanished. it's the same all over. here's a big pothole in kansas city. who cares? yes earth. >> for keith ute gave grace to richard day and do you care to give grace to richard m. matt? into walter we talked about the mayoral candidates. who are some of the other

chicago politicians you have been impressed with that you thought maybe would have been a good mayor? >> who would have been a good mayor? rick. >> i would have been an extraordinary mayor but i have too many skeletons in my closet, even here. >> i don't know there could have been better mayors than either of the daley's for many reasons. i believe in a strong centralized government that can get things done rather than meaning -- leaving too many things up for debate. i don't think there's anybody out there right now who could do a better job. the problems are so immense between the schools in the shootings that there are no other politicians especially since most of the politicians who are in high office now came through morbid political system, the leaders and the politics became more through a political system than a governmental system. rahm as difficult as he is and he is difficult, he is making

some progress that hasn't been made in a while. i can't think of a name of the person who would be better. >> i think your question is a great one and i don't know if you caught up in earlier when walter was talking about the relationship between rich daley and his successor this observation is right on the mark. i think his observation was that in a lot of ways the daley legacy is in rahm's hands. the second daley had a lot of accomplishments and those are sort of them. he had some things where he was open to criticism, things like the pension crisis and the budget deficit and the crime. if you solve the budget crisis in the pension crisis and the schools, people, history will forget that those were problems for daley.

if rahm doesn't sell those things that history will remember that those were problems for daley so it's very recent history and with recent history is an open book so it's a little too early. where as with the first mayor daley, it sort of is what it is. we might agree or disagree but i feel more comfortable about that. >> one last question. >> chicago to me has always been the center of a huge metropolis but chicago's government has been divided, latino, black and white. what do you see as the future 20 years from now? what kind of governmental structure do you see? do you see one ethnic group popping up or how do you see this? >> i don't think there's a way to predict. there are so many things that pop up in the public eye. so many ways that the media determines what's going on in government. there's just no way to predict. we know what half is happening

with population trends. chicago is becoming increasingly minority populations of that will change the map on politics and change the politicians. the exciting politicians are leaving the scene because politics isn't as important anybody anymore as you have been observing as a government. in the newspaper today -- is leaving the city council hopefully to find a way to make room for his daughter to take over his ward. but we just can't tell what's going to happen. the economy is going to go one way or another and that will determine the politics. >> i think demographics are powerful. i think the hispanic population in the mexican population is going to get very large within our lifetime in the next 10 or 20 or so if i was a betting person i would say we will probably have a hispanic mayor within the next 20 years. i think that is a pretty safe bet. >> i want to send you out to buy

these books with the notion, contemplate for a moment if harold washington hadn't died in how that changes everything. it's amazing. contemplate that. contemplate richard m with richard j's policy. i want to thank you all. by these books. [applause] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] we will be back in a few minutes with more like coverage of the printers row lit fest in chicago. [inaudible conversations]

>> what are you reading this summer? booktv wants to know. >> right now i'm reading where did you go bernadette by maria simple. it's a novel that is told in the form of e-mails as a daughter tries to piece together clues about why her mother disappeared

the mother is quite eccentric and the story is set in seattle with some interesting quirky characters. it's a lot of fun. i don't know where it's going but i'm really looking forward to the vanishing it. after that i'm going to be doing something of a club with my son miles who is 16. this is something we did a couple of summers ago. we picked a couple of books and we read them and we would go to her local diner to discuss them and have wrecked vest. this summer we have picked to book so far. we are reading a biography of bruce springsteen which i think should be a lot of fun. we are both springsteen and interested to learn a little bit more about his background in new jersey and how he got to be who he is. we are also going to read dan brown's inferno which i think is the ultimate summer beach book. i've read the other dan brown books and i think miles will enjoy this one.

he has a real knack for ending his chapters with cliffhangers that make you turn the page. so i think miles will enjoy that a lot and will have lots to talk about. it should be a fun summer of reading. >> let us know what you are reading this summer. tweet us at otb, posted on her face with page or send us an e-mail at booktv@c-span.org. >> the book is called if you knew you would care. when it comes to women at war everyone thinks of them as the dems but i really, none of us wanted to tell if it him story. although it is victimhood in the story their story is so far more than the victim story. they are not defined by the actual story. what they are defined by is what they take out of the story. claudine for example is a woman who wanted to be a doctor when

she was a kid. she wanted to have an exploration and tell her father died when she was 13 years old. she had to leave school so she could work and help her mother support her. i can tell you what claudine went through but when she was 16 she fell in love with the young man. she saw him on her way to the church and they would glance at each other and they had a crush on each other. until that day she talks about how she fell in love. they got married when they were 18 for those of you who are young here. they got married later on and they had a happy marriage. they had kids in the house and it was a happy marriage until the war when they broke up. when the war broke up it took everything away from them. he was an alcoholic and when he

started drinking you started being her up. one day he peter up so badly that the hospital refused to treat her and the sheet told who did this to her. that is how heard new jersey and -- new journey started trade when he left up from prison she divorced him. i wanted to tell you that claudine was raped two years ago by a soldier. that is not only claudine. claudine was a woman who made hair in this style. see how cool this is. claudine is a woman who is in love. claudine is in woman who was beaten, who survived and has a farm right now. it's never simple story of those others in other parts of the world ended this case it's in congo. i met -- i started the journey of women thinking i'm embarking on a journey to save the world. i learned that the world was saving me.

the woman i and i think i'm helping ended up helping me. when i asked her what does she mean by peace? part of a woman's goal is to understand war and peace from a woman's perspective. when i asked what she means by peace she said pieces inside my heart. no one can take it away from me. no one can give it to me. i spent so much money on yoga studios in meditation just so i could understand the peace cloudiness talking about. pieces inside my heart. no one can take it away from me. no one can give it to me. she was locked into a room for three months and raped. the day she was supposed to be killed he said i could not see you to be killed so he gives her his military uniform.

he steals someone's motorcycle so they can give her a ride to her home village. she says the child they had out of rape is my profit. she teaches me how to love. if you knew me you would care, you would care and you would understand the intimate stories not only the horrible stories. this woman said did not look at me as a poor woman. i was a rich woman once. she had her cows and under chickens and their goats and the word came and they stole it away from her. you will have to connect what i learned in the journey. that is not only the victim story. this woman was not smiling because she has a gap in her teeth. like many of us appreciate beauty and wants to be beautiful and was embarrassed to smile to show the gums in between your teeth. you see if we connect on the beautiful story and if we

connect on the love story and if we connect on the marriage story this woman's husband cheated on her and as a result got her hiv. but they are stories that any of us in here could go through and they are not all bad stories. stories i learned from learn from this woman who was a beautician in afghanistan. i learned how to pay attention to my upper lips and my eyebrows she actually helped me clean it up afterwards because in afghanistan there is a beauty that every woman appreciated. we see them only as the burqa, the women behind the burqa. this woman actually make sure -- but she does all the weddings and she was talking about makeup and all of that. the woman was married to a man who is 40 years older than her and her parents did not want her to marry this man but they were so worried about her that they

gave up. they were so worried that he would kidnap her anyway. she is struggling day in and day out just so she can send her four daughters to school. she has been victimized but she is not defined by your victim story. and if we cannot see her beyond the victim story then shame on us. the dalai lama said if you cannot respect to those you serve then better not serve them because they would feel if you do not respect them. >> can watch this and other programs on line at booktv.org. >> what are you reading this summer? booktv wants to know.

>> famous passage of one of

william faulkner's novels, for every southern boy 14 years or older its till 1:00 in the afternoon on july 3, 1863. pickett's charge hasn't happened yet. it's all on the line and in their imagination they can say this time maybe this time victory, independence. so in the minds of a think both northerners and southerners, northerners at the time but southerners more in retrospect, this became the mythic moment of victory. >> to 150th anniversary of the battle of gettysburg lives all day sunday june 30 on american history tv on c-span3.

>> booktv's live from chicago. next anchee min talks about her follow up memoir, "the cooked seed." [inaudible conversations]

[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> good morning. welcome to the 29th annual chicago printers row lit fest. we would like to get give a special thank you to our sponsors who have helped make the lit fest to success. today's program will be broadcast live on c-span2's booktv. if there is time at the end for q&a session with the other we asked that use the microphone located in the center of the room. so that our viewing audience can hear the question. if you would like to watch this program again note that our coverage will re-air at 11:00 p.m. central time on saturday and midnight central time on sunday.

please keep this going all year with his church into printers row, the premium books section. visit the printers row welcome center at harrison in dearborn for special lit fest subscription rates including tote bags and posters. finally the author's book will be sold on the second for the university center which is the building we are currently in and the book signing will be in the arts room. the book signing will be innately following the program. before you begin today's program please turn off your cell phone and other electronic devices and without further ado i would like to welcome our moderator mary schmidt of the "chicago tribune." [applause] >> thank you for this great turnout. i am really excited to be here today with anchee min. i read her first book back in 1995 i think shortly after came out and i assume some of you

have read it. it was the first is, that their memoir about growing up during the cultural revolution in china and it took her up until approximately the time that she landed. can you not hear me? can somebody regulate this microphone for us please? how about this? can you hear me now? okay, excellent. her second book which is a book we are going to focus on today is "the cooked seed" which is just come out and it starts when she lands at o'hare in 1984. is that right? before we start asking questions just in case you think that success has changed anchee min i would like to point out that she is traveling with a backpack. [laughter] she is lugging everything everything she has a rounded around and i asked her when we met down in the green room earlier today, is that everything you have? she said yes. we learned growing up in china

to pack quickly and to pack everything that you have. >> because we were told that the americans were in vietnam and they were going to take over china and eight china and we must learn to defend ourselves. any time. >> so some things never change. however americanize you may be. anchee i would like to have you start by just telling us in the way that your book starts about your arrival in chicago. who were you? what was that like to land in this cold strange place? >> my life ended in china. it's a long story. to make it short, i was in the labor camp. it's nothing unusual. if you know anything about chinese history, the cultural revolution, maulik used a -- to

help them get rid of his political rival. once it was done the youth were getting unsettled in the city and mao wanted to get rid of them. he said the university, the best one is the countryside and half of china's youth were sent there, ordered there and i was one of them. after a few years in the labor camp and getting disillusioned my labor camp in the east china's see. there were 10 labor camps there. about 100,000 youths aged 17 to 25 and that makes -- how we were contained by one slogan called to kill a hand to shock the monkey's. to speed up the red azalea i will come to this point.

in late 1975, early 1976 we didn't know that mao was dying and taking over china to be the next ruler of china and she needs to make sort of like a campaign movie to pave the way. she needs his face. her ideal woman to be on the screen. she looked everywhere. i was picked from the cotton fields and shipped with tractor and trucks back to the shanghai film studio to be screen tested. i've personally had no say in it. i was like everybody else in china -- it was just because i had the right face that matter mao needed. disappointing isn't it?

>> don't like hearing the term that you are recruited. >> correct. speak to these films. what's your objection to the word recruited? it's in your walk. >> i had no talent and after i went to the university i saw all of these beautiful women my own age and some of them knew how to act. they were eliminated because somebody who knows at ring had cultural background in the family so that is considered politically not reliable. matter mao was looking for the right person so i was taught how to perform in front of the camera politari and -- parliamentarian style. speaking to give us a little rendition? >> for example teaching at a drink water correctly. i was given the cop and so you start drinking water. ready, set action and i would start to drink.

the director would say stop. your little pinky bourgeoisie. the correct way to drink the water is grab it and drink it and wiped my mouth with my sleeve. no lipstick. but anyway i was picked and i just remember i couldn't perform. all i could think was a did not want to go back to the labor camp because i had a back injury. i must succeed and that kind of shows. then later on the footage was sent to matter mao and her office said that it was awful and we were called to beijing to watch a matter mao's favorite movies and to learn technique and not to be poisoned by its contents. we have to have a study section and we went through all that. the moment we saw all of these

movies in her private film room, we all got poisoned mentally. one was jane eyre. it matches because megamall saw herself as jane eyre because mao was 20 years older and mr. -- so everything matches. the second movie was the sound of music. matter mao had kids. >> these are the same stories that influenced american girls of this age. >> later on matter mao, she was evil. she was responsible for murdering so many chinese people but in the meantime or fantasy. anyway, septembeseptembe r ninth, 1976 mao died.

matter mao was overthrown and two months later i was denounced. for the next eight years i was punished, guilty by association. and by the time -- i had no way out. put it that way. i would be dead today. >> at what point did you determine he wanted to come to the united states, the notion that -- a nation that you had grown up learning to hate and fear? >> i was coughing blood and i had shadows on my blog lungs and shadows on my liver and i passed out. i felt like i was, my life was sending. it was then my old friend, when she was in china she was told not to be my friend. then she went to america.

we were best friends and she was becoming a superstar in china and i was going down the switch. after she arrived in america and was in a movie called the last emperor, she felt safe enough to contact me. so she wrote a letter and i learned her life in america. it was surprising that she was not treated as a princess in as she was in china. she said i work like every chinese student and in america you have to work for your tuition. a lightbulb went off and i said, could i be one of those students? i don't speak english but i would be willing to work hard from the labor camp. she applied everywhere in the united states to help me but nobody would accept me. and then she said, thank you.

do you have any talent? i said i grew up painting murals. so at that time lucky enough that shanghai had an exhibition called french impressionism and i went there and i thought if i couldn't copy michelangelo i could copy vincent van gogh. [laughter] so i came back and painted and my mother said she sought death and madness in my paintings. with this painting i applied to the art school of chicago and i thought i had a 10 show. >> you basically lied about your english, right? or misrepresented. >> i couldn't fill out the application form. my name, i didn't have an english name. i saw in the neighborhood a wise man who said you should give yourself an american name, angela so i printed out angell

and many years later when my daughter was 11 years old i gave her the application form as a gift. don't ever forget where your mom came from. my daughter looked at the name anchee min. she said mom, that is not anchee that is angle. the next line was. i consulted my chinese dictionary. the 1970 version. there is no explanation so i didn't know how to fill out male or female. i didn't know which one to circle. the rest was impossible to go on so i took it to a friend who helped me fill out the form and the english language skill there was an option poor, average, good, excellent, of course excellent. [laughter] so with that i came to america

and got stopped right at customs. >> at o'hare? >> at the transition in seattle before coming to o'hare so for deportatideportati on. >> lets fast-forward a little bit. you get to chicago and to get to the school of art institute. your english isn't good enough and you have to take english classes but eventually begin to establish yourself. tell us about your early life in chicago, where you lived in and what you had to struggle with? >> i lived everywhere. i live somewhere downtown. first, when i was for deportation i broke down and told the translator that my feet are in it. and please, i beg you for a chance. i will be dead in china. i didn't have the fortune to die in china. so she went, the translator went back with the immigration officer. there is a clause that says upon the arrival of the student if

english is not sufficient i would be sent to a university of illinois southern campus for intensive language. for six months and within six months i have to master english and make it back to the art institute. if not the school is responsible for immigration and deportation. i will bet you will master chinese in six months if you are are in my shoes, that desperate. anyway i learned english by watching sesame street and by radio, public radio and newspaper and it was the most difficult thing. i had to pretend all of these years that i was doing well in america because i had to rescue my family in china. yesterday was passing the

downtown post office. i remember my first photo i was taking and i asked a stranger, can you take a picture of me under the flight? they said why do you and the five? we have a lot of beautiful buildings in chicago. i said i want to be under the american flag. >> so your life in chicago when he first got here was very difficult. you had a lot of difficult jobs that didn't pay very much. >> five jobs but i had a different mindset. i thought i was getting a right to life. it's up to me for the first time, and so to answer your question wicker park and logan square, urban park and i'm familiar with the train because i have a job as a delivery person downtown walking everywhere and i knocked on every chinese restaurant, the door in downtown and downtown chicago where my legs could carry me. outside of chinatown to 26 and

half step and bridgeport so my happiest place was 4311 south halstead. i had this little storage room and for the first time in my life i own personal space. although the ceiling, the wall was not closed and the neighbor was a man. if he had in the middle of the night the smell would come to the room. i had no window. >> when you complain to the owner you said that is why it's cheap. >> yeah, that's right. >> is a storage space. >> my health broke down. i passed out and was sent to st. joseph's hospital. a doctor told me, do you have anybody to take you there? i said no. i can walk there or take the train. she said no you can collapse any time so he reported to this

hospital probably thinking i have some sort of disease. the moment he dropped me at the hospital the two tall men came and escorted me into the isolation room. they put me in the white tube because i was coughing blood. they found nothing was wrong. it was depression. so they sent me to the depression to see a psychiatrist at the school art institute. i wouldn't go -- i felt it was a good opportunity to learn english. [laughter] so it was disappointing because they psychologist, she would not talk to me. she would not fix my english. >> do chinese people at that point see psychiatrist? was the idea of psychiatry new to you? >> i had never heard of it. i thought how can a person be depressed when she is not feeling depressed? >> a lot of what you are talking

about our offense that you write about in this book. i would say two-thirds of this book all your life in chicago before you gain all the success and moved to california. we were talking on the phone the other day. talk about how difficult it was to write this second portion of the memoir. you embarked on it after red azalea when you were a hot commodity and it didn't work. talk about the difficulties of telling this part of your life story. >> well, after 20 years of making a living as an author and being on the best-selling lists, i was going to sit next to j.k. rowling at the book awards. as an author i started to realize the essence of my life.

it's just how i approach it. i now i know the right way to write this book. how the book ought to be written at the point is do i have the courage? so my daughter said mom if you leave me anything i want you to leave me your story but not the sugarcoated or airbrushed version. and that was the key. and i found that i've read a lot of difficult stories told by second-generation about their mothers and i found a lot of things mothers left out. i know exact a wife. so these are the things that i wrote. >> things that others left out because they didn't want their children to know these things? >> that darkside. >> can you talk a little bit about the darkside that you had to plunge into in order to tell a church story? >> for example the lack of money and the loneliness.

the lack of money that drove me to live in the cheapest place in chicago and subject myself to the vulnerable situation where i was raped. and i am on a book tour and i was in san diego. there was a chinese woman who stood up and she said the same thing happened to me, exactly. it's a mirror image. i was raped and i did not rip cord. i felt the same thing, that people in a normal situation when they are in despair with that crushing loneliness in this helplessness and hopelessness drove people to madness. and the rape and the strangling. it's the things that happen to an immigrant.

on the other hand i had a problem with my siblings and my family. why do you have to reveal that to the world? >> did they say this to you after the book book came out and they knew you had revealed that? >> i was telling them, i am not going to sugarcoat. so i might say something that would have a negative effect on the family. but i feel that i don't owe my life as an american i see that. i owe to america and i owe that to my daughter. >> to tell an honest story. >> right, right. i love america and chicago so much and it's the right thing to do and also another thing talking about my christmas and thanksgiving. for three years i didn't have the money and it mostly was

afraid that i might not get back if i ever visit my home. i was here alone by myself. i could've gone to my friends to be with the chinese community that i would never learn english the way i do now. i must deny myself that part. so for my christmas and thanksgiving i was alone and valentines night. my gift to myself was this pornography tape. so i have this relationship with the tape for so many years. so that is part of -- it was bad that i stumbled into the shop. >> the same tape over and over right? >> it's the most, it's called education. and eventually the store owner says, he says why do you by its?

i will sell it to you for $25. you can have it. you're the only one rinsing it anyway. so i brought it down to $20 i thought this would be my companion for the rest of my life. >> does english come to you naturally now or is towards it's still difficult? >> it's still difficult. my daughter comes up to my cabin and she would -- you know teenagers. a few weeks you would come back and she would say the same sentence -- the sentence, the same page? i would rather go to medical school. >> you are talking about when you write you write in chinese. >> i compose in chinese, the plot and the details everywhere and i know it's. my husband says, it's

everywhere. it's an ocean of notes. it's all in chinese. when i write and execute it i image. >> one of the things you mentioned toward the end of the book is to be an immigrant is to leave the people you love a hind. you left your family. your mother died. and this happens late in your book but it's actually very emotional thing that your mother dies and she is so far away. what did that change for you? mentally? >> i think she became part of the driving force that i wrote this book as i never realized that my relationship with my daughter until my mother passed away. all these 10 years, 20 years as an immigrant, china was so far away.

i was not able to attend to her illness and later on when i became wealthy enough to visit her, she was already in alzheimer's. i couldn't even get there when she was dying. i father called and said i think every immigrant fear that good night early morning 4:00 call. you know something is not right in my father called me in this thick voice. your mother isn't permanent sleep. i said why can't you just say she is dead? so is everything and permanent sleep. i think something clicked and changed me. my relationship with my daughter, it's a difficult one because at the beginning she would not understand main. she was born in chicago. a child of an immigrant. she had to help.

i wanted to take her to disneyland for her birthday, but i took her to home depot. her gifts was a lesson on how to use a power saw and a book called -- mcilwan, two, three. that was her life until she became a teenager and she rebelled and she said mom don't want to talk about it. i said okay i will talk to you about milking the system because my philosophy of making the american dream by working hard is backfiring. my daughter often sees the opposite. she says mom, it's not the end of the world being poor, okay? and i just want to, i see that jamaica's kids are having the american dream that you come to america for. her kids are happy and they have

their own rooms and their tv and their games and their scape words and their stuffed animals. i wanted what they have. i don't want to live this life working with you and the weekends and no summer, just carrying concrete bags and then out helping you hold the drywall and mixing cement while you do the tile. when i come home even a bottle of shampoo cannot get rid of the stink at my hair. i don't think i'm asking too much. so she broke down crying and that was my tough time, tough moment. >> home depot figures fairly regularly in your book. >> wade practically live there. >> learning to repair things, take care of things.

just the basic work. it's a real theme of this book and then the conflict you are describing here between the life that you live and lived and the skills that you were forced to learn and the life of your daughter, the lives of the privileged children of most americans now. that continues to be a conflict for you. some reviewer described you as the original tiger mother. >> you should ask my daughter. my husband is the tiger dead. >> a vietnam vet. >> a u.s. marine and english teacher of 30 years. he tells my daughter, you tell your mother that she is an immigrant and she has no idea what america's schools want and you can get away with it. you try me. don't worry about me going crazy because i marty there. [laughter]

so he is a tiger father. for me, my thinking is okay home depot she feels deprived but in the meantime subconsciously i feel this is what she needs. her friends, my daughter's friends moms are calling me dysfunctional. and i call them dysfunctional. i don't see anything wrong to prepare her. i see her, if i'm ever the tiger mother, i'm a tiger mother on one point. i will not let you get away with being narcissistic and feeling sorry for yourself as you have to help your mom pay back america. i would never give up the opportunity. america gave me the opportunity not just me but also to you. she is a staffer right now. she will never get the chance

being nobody's daughter and then you have to pay back. i can see her being helpful with her skills, building a house and plumbing. she can surf where people need her. that was i think my dream. if it's a little bit imposing i accept that. i admit this. >> you mention of the phone the other day, that you go back to china regularly. and you are worried that this generation of chinese kids is going in the direction of the privileged, spoiled american. >> i went to china and my friends, their children's birthdays and whatever celebration, the highest places

mcdonald's and kentucky fried chicken. that is where they celebrate. they don't want to go to a chinese restaurant. a pizza place, it's everything america. now kids are asking them for money to go to america. right now china spends a fortune , a family fortune to send their kids to america for school. it's the number one choice for families to invest in their children's education. ..

>> in the meantime china is unwilling to reveal the dark side and chinese people telling and my family telling me to hide it and they will not write the way i do if i am not americanized and i do see that china presents itself

with the perfect image and it is so fake. as an american i know that with the honesty with your flaws it is not necessary but to your disadvantage because americans understand and if you look at your "gone with the wind" the hero and that is part of what the chinese do not understand about america. and people don't also understand chinese. to not have access to chinese literature, it never could make it into mainstream america. why not? because i think the censorship even with my

memoir how many times do you see in the memoir the protagonist project them saul's as flawed? with agreed? part of my chicago story shows that. >> so in chinese literature for the protagonist would never be flawed? >> it is automatic flawed in the harmless way, yes because you don't dissect yourself as honestly as america would for example, i got schemed in chicago when i was a new immigrant i was greedy i needed the money.

>> through your whole life through all of your work work, striving, the constant striving, to somehow be more common not have more but to be secure to strive toward a certain securities and now you live in beautiful northern california with a solid second marriage what did you strive for now? >> how to feel secure. i.m. and secure with my riding because i feel retarded. lack of talent and i think everything i do, you see my talent is in the knowledge, lack of talent.

i know the bar is there of how high i want to jump and i want to get over it i know if i make an effort i will be able to but i am not to be equipped. so i go back to chinese every day i read the chinese in my best days writing in english and actually feel like i was writing chinese because americans from the commercial market i wanted to entertain but also walked away with solid knowledge because i feel that chided is misrepresented and i think it is ridiculous for americans to get the wrong message about understanding about china and i can choose my stories especially historical i am entitled to do that but do i want to

throw one more rock into the well when china is already at the bottom to mislead the american public for their? i choose not to if my book does not sell or give you this satisfaction totally i think it is my choice. and nobody wanted it and the publisher did not think that american reading public would read it because it is a sad story that being on trial sentenced to death after 38 years of marriage she was considered demon and although the george washington of china but they condensed the video to a few seconds where she was given basically where she shouted in chinese and said.

[speaking chinese] and that is a perfect self portrait translation, . [inaudible] because after the new emperor of china she became the concubine to fight her way back she did everything to please the man so that was her life but of course, in the end she hanged herself in jail using socks that she tied all the socks together and there is nothing to tie but to the bet frame and threw herself over. what kind of determination to die? but the last minute i wonder her thoughts of her own

life? what was it? so the book is written and nobody wanted. in to my current editor had dead debts to take it because at the time houghton mifflin was making money and they thought they could invest it in the liberal work and took a chance to and immediately it was a best seller because it is chinese history. and also my other books, i am with blooms period published harry potter and they took a chance on me because they had many with harry potter. [laughter] so my books, i really appreciate the american critics and the quality of the people they send it to

me. my first experience a journalist was said to me this his first question was like to discuss with you on the topic of the three villages who instigated the cultural revolution. i go where did you go to school i said -- he said colombia and cultural revolution was his major. >> we have four minutes to take a couple questions from the audience we have microphones right there in the middle of the aisle. >> it is a pleasure and an honor to meet you i am a native of chicago. your story is very moving.

my first view into china was a fictional account the good earth about an american in china to present to views i am amazed at how exotic it is but she characterized the protagonist with the labor and how harsh it was did you ever read that and what was your reaction? >> i was grown up to denounce it right before nixon's visit because we were children i remember i was welcoming nixon and giving red flowers to welcome the president and when his car passes and was at the corner of the boulevard and the road first of all, it came to my mind to i shoot him? [laughter] how dare this man come to china because i did not know she was scheduled to come

with nixon but at the last minute refused a visa to come and before that they paved the way for china and i said i never knew this name. what did she write? and they said she insulted the chinese peasants. so i was not able to get any book but i remember my conversation for insulting the chinese peasants not until the book tour in chicago back on the airplane i first read the good earth i sobbed on the airplane because i have never seen any authors including my favorite portray the peasants with such affection and the accuracy, the life

she is the only one. i know she had a date with the chinese professor in "new york times" after the nobel prize and the debate why can she portray the chinese why would she choose the ugly side and pearl buck said i am glad you pointed out i am pointing at the 95 percent of the population so the chinese people tell me who are you? are you his daughter? you're so plain and average. so i give the answer i happen to be average which is 95 percent of the population. thank you. [applause] >> we are out of time.

i really enjoyed this book we are really at a time. >> i have a question i am chinese and i come here for about 15 years and i was working for a newspaper before and just two years ago i got another job working for an american company but just two days ago mike american coworker bought this book for me to encourage me to learn english and i am honored to be here so my question is how did you practice your english and what gives you more encouragement to learn english? >> to survive. >> you have to be desperate. you're already in america.

english is much easier than chinese. [laughter] >> thank you because over 12 years in the chinese community i work for the chinese newspaper as a reporter. >> this is the most difficult thing to stay away from the chinese community that is why i deny myself for so many years because i know if i did not speak english and would never be independent in america. >> that is what i want. thank you so much. i am proud of you. [applause] >> this is a great chicago story. thank you, anchee min. [inaudible conversations]

>> i have a lot of history and biography that the books i am reading about halfway through is indispensable a book by a professor and it is an excellent books on different leadership styles. basically it has the leadership filtration theory with filters a well-known politicians to move themselves up the ranks and others who are obscure when it comes through to are unpredictable as a result because they're not so well known. lincoln was one of those lonely in obscure figure from illinois was one term but he was of course, proved

to be one of the best leaders. that is not always the case but it is a fascinating theory applies that theory to a number of leaders like jefferson and wilson and winston churchill so it is a great read and i am halfway through so one that i recently read a great reader and biographer but his theory is that aicher is not as appreciated as he should have been with the method to his madness and although he seemed to be a bumbler and not in charge was secretly he was quite shrewd and very much in charge but i have to it meant having read the whole book being open to this theory that actually he does not mean to but he proves the opposite in this book pretty much tells you eisenhower was often a sick

man with a serious illness of heart disease and often very disengaged and delegated a lot with his secretary of state. it is an interesting book but i think he disproves his own thesis which is fun when you think about it. but it is interesting to me because i served in the senate and which she profiles a number of senators that he thinks is a golden age in the senate of the '60s and '70s into the 80s characters like ted kennedy and those who got things done and reached across the aisle willing to break with rome party orthodoxy but we don't do that anymore any documents

or how much got it done with that compromise. >> this book is a fascinating history in which the notions of christian orthodoxy and heresy were imposed, and not by church leaders but readers of this state where the state directly intervened to counsel vicious and insisted on precepts of orthodoxy and from that of what constituted heresy and it is the emperor is from seditious who really insisted on at and changed the course of history and not always for the better but it silenced dissent and squelched the church about the competing theories of

theology and led to the persecution of people who deviated from orthodoxy over this century. is a fascinating account of early history and the conflict from the actions of the emperor theodosia from constantinople. another book is a book called the general's the author of one of the best single volumes of our invasion of iraq and what went wrong this is a historical book about how generals were made, promoted and demoted from world war ii to the present. the thesis is essentially that george c. marshall who served as the joint chiefs of staff in a world war ii

week removed many generals from the battlefield of a run at up to the job he insisted on performance but with impunity they removed people and tell if on the right person for the right job and were mixed talks about is that culture with the responsibility as very much has been diluted in subsequent periods by vietnam's performance seems to be a very small criteria when it comes to the appraisal of generals and they're very few consequences for pour for performance and out comes to highlight general westmoreland for a long period of time as a quintessential example and he argues that by the to the present day it is true and it is very injuring to the

performance of the u.s. military and has real implications as a national security policy and one that is thought provoking and one that is real. one book i have recently read is a book called the conservative assault on the constitution by an attorney who practices before the supreme court and in this book he really documents the assault on many facets of american life and education to civil-rights, personal liberties, corporate law and his theory is this is a concerted ideological assault on constitutional principles and ironically those on the conservative side say read the constitution but he makes

the opposite argument that they're in danger of constitutional liberties and many of the precepts we care about as a country. but finally to books i have not yet read one is the guns of the last light the trilogy of the american involved with rick atkinson and with "the washington post" his first two volumes were extraordinary the first was a book on the campaign and the second was the sicily and italy campaign the very brutal part of the war. the third volume chronicles from the invasion of normandy to the liberation of berlin so that is next on

my list and then i'll is just sent the book from my colleagues and this is a book about the rivalry between madison and monroe it is a little-known piece of virginia history but actually madison ran against each another for the united states congress and the district had been carved to favor monroe and medicine could tested it and in the upset he beat monroe who was a friend of his, a state of french and succeeded him as president. this is quite an interesting book and it contends because he won that election we got the bill of rights of the rise maybe we wouldn't have because he is a great champion so that had great consequences not a well-known piece of virginia history but a critical piece and of books that i am

looking forward to reading this summer. [inaudible conversations] >> will come back to the 29th annual "chicago tribune" printer's row which the israelites to death a round of applause to those who have made it a success it will be broadcast live on booktv on c-span2 there is time at the end for q&a we ask use the microphone located in the center of the

room so the whole dealing audience can hear your question if you like to watch this program again note coverage will air again at 11:00 p.m. central on saturday and midnight central on sunday. please keep the spirit going all year with fiat these subscription to printer's row the premium membership program. visit the welcome center for special subscription and perks and rates including the live fast book beguin poster. finally, the books will be sold on the second floor of the university's center right outside. that is for the books will be sold and also a book signing following this session in the arts room and it will be immediately after. before we begin please ask that i would ask you to turn

off your cellphone and other device that would welcome our moderator from "the chicago tribune". [applause] >> i am very honored to be here tonight with his great audience also my colleague who has written a good book called the of -- "the watchmaker's daughter" but sonya, you are the daughter tell us about the watch maker what was it like to live with him? >> was born into a family of a heroic couple who had survived the holocaust and seemed to mean more like the thick doors more than victims so my father was very charismatic and i would say physically you could combine you'll brunner and also a good dancer and in particular with waltzing and

he always looked old but never got old and he saved lives in the holocaust so he became a watchmaker because to very unfortunate circumstances but his life had a way to turn lead into gold his father was shot by the coalsack and he worked in their river mill and my name's sake had to scramble to protect her three kids when my father turned 13 he had to apprentice not stay in school and he chose watchmaking and he took to it to became a master watchmaker so the years go by and the russians came in to lithuania he became head successful the harley was the index of that but then the nazis came and lo and behold and asked each person what the profession was he

did as a lawyer which would have been useless to the regime but watchmaker is cliche they had a tremendous respect for punctuality and my father could fix any timepiece so that saved his life not only became a walk -- watchmaker in dachau concentration camp but those who were starving who could not stand confinement he would let them in to say i need the assistant and show them how to play with the tools and caution them not to break anything but then he had a workshop and that was living with a hero and my mother saved her mother when she had come to america and her color scheme was flowers and she played the piano at the conservatory

about to graduate when the nazis came said she would play for us so my household was a very strange place of clock ticking pendulum swinging and hearing the piano while living in the bellies of the past in the present and had nothing to do with any of that. >> when you grew up you did not really know this story of your father's heroism of what he did in dachau that it was a coincidence tell us how you found out. >> and have to say i did not know that he was the hero but a lot of people have come now with my experience and most particularly the holocaust did not get to hear it was a feeling of silence because the people traumatized were aware and

went on with their lives but i felt there was no and i knew that did not get up in the morning who would go to work but my parents did all that but talked about it nonstop although i did not know about his hair was some it was dave number one topic to enter the amount cyanite purser am i am sure i was told something. it hurts more than the holocaust. [laughter] . .

and actually formed a lifelong friendship and so that's a great work that's going to be a big book for baseball fans this summer. so that's my list of looking forward to reading them all.