>> as you read the book this month, post your thoughts on twitter with the hash tag btv book club, and write on our facebook page, facebook.com/booktv. and then on june 25th at 9 p.m. eastern, join our live, moderated discussion on both social media sites. and if you have an idea for next month, send your suggestion on which books you think we should include in our online book club via twitter, facebook or e-mail at booktv@c-span.org. >> you're watching booktv on c-span2. here's our prime time lineup for

tonight. up next, deepak and sanjiv chopra talk about growing up and becoming doctors. then at 8:30, corey shock key sits down with booktv to discuss her book, "state of disrepair." at 9 on "after words," carl hart talks about his book, "high price," with juan williams of the hill and fox news. at 10 p.m. eastern, gary greenberg gives a history of the controversies surrounding the diagnostic and statistical manual of mental disorders. and we conclude tonight's prime time programming at 11 with khalid hosseini. that happens next on c-span2's booktv. and now on booktv, deepak and zahn vive chopra recount their immigration to the united states, their entry into the medical profession here and the differences between eastern and western medicine. this is about an hour, 15.

[applause] >> thank you very much. before we get started, i just want to tell everybody a quick story. as many of you know, you can only come to the society as a guest we have this golden rule, one time. today, deepak is going to break his own record, and today is the fourth time. and we make an exception for him each time. the amount of people that come out and how great he is with us at the society, and we were delighted to learn of this incredible book that was coming out and to see his other half or, what some people would say, deepak, your better half? [laughter] but anyway, we'll really delighted of the both of them -- delighted to have both of them here. and they're going to impress us all with this incredible, fascinating story. and what we're going to do is do about a 45 minute conversation followed by about 15 minutes of audience questions. and for those people that are standing, there's about ten seats in the first two rows, so

please feel free to come to the first two rows as there are seats in the first two rows, because we don't want you to stand. so deepak and sanjiv, please tell us what was it like growing up in india, and how did that play into your future but different careers? >> so growing up in india was an absolutely enchanting experience. we had the most loving parents. we had uncles and aunts, amazing grandparents, and each one of them was an amazing storyteller. so growing up, we participated in all the ancient rituals. but every few weeks an uncle would arrive, an aunt would come and stay with us for several months, our grandmother lived with us for many, many years. and hearing stories from them

was absolutely intoxicating. it was such a vibrant, colorful experience, i can't ever forget it. >> and, deepak, what role did growing up in india play on your future career? >> as sanjiv said, we grew up with stories. our mother told us stories mostly from spiritual literature, from the mythological literature, and it was many, many years later i realized that everyone's life here is a story, you know? there's a story about the buddha standing on the streets 2,500 years ago, and there was a lot of traffic on the streets. india was crowded even 2,500 years ago. and they're waiting for the camels and the bullet carts to, you know, clear the traffic.

and buddha says explain life to me. and buddha points to the wheel of a chariot that's passing by at that moment, and the wheel has three divisions. he says life is like that wheel. the wheel is karma, memory and desire. and this is what we experience as our thoughts. we tell ourselves satisfactories, we live the story -- stories, we live the story, and we call it live. so we were fortunate, as sanjiv said, in a household of stories. then we became doctors, and we realized that every person that comes to see us comes to see us because they have a story. and, you know, that was the tradition we grew up with. we heard stories from our families but also from our parents. and also from my father about his experiences with his patients who were his best teachers. and we learned later that was the same for us as well.

>> there's three more -- yes, we're going to pass along the microphone. i know some people are having difficulty. three more seats up front here for anybody that's standing, and i think there's some more seats in the back there. >> and, you know, all the stories had a lesson. and what that instilled in deepak and me were the core values of growing up in india, the principles that we now espouse and that we, hopefully, have passed on to our own kids and now to our grandchildren. >> and your father was this incredible individual, one of the most famous doctors in india. what do you think he provided you for both of your future journeys? [laughter] >> well, i have a chapter in the book, it's called "blind for a day," and i've -- it's a true story. deepak and i were studying in same columbus high school.

we were being taught by irish christian brothers. i learned hindi with an irish accent. [laughter] and after a cricket match one sunday around 5 or 6:00, i was reading reader's digest, and i fall asleep. take a short nap, and i wake up 45 minutes later, and i'm blind. i cannot see. and i nudged deepak, and he's next to me, and i said, deepak, i can't see. so i'm told he waved his hands in front of me, threatened me as though he was going to poke my eye, and i didn't blink. so then he knew for sure that i was blind. and he started crying. he said i have one brother, and he's gone blind. [laughter] and we were staying with -- >> suddenly. >> suddenly. without warning. without forewarning. [laughter] and we were staying with our father's younger brother and his wife, and he took us to the military hospital where i was examined by doctors including

ophthalmologists. and can they had -- and they had no inkling what was going on. they were even using the term hysterical blindness. i was this 12-year-old kid who was a great athlete, a good student, and there was no reason for me to fake it. so finally, they got ahold of my father who was 300 miles away in a military jeep on a field trip. and this is, this is the art of medicine. you always start with history taking. he said tell me everything that's happened to sanjiv in the last two months. oh, he's been fine. he's been perfectly healthy. no, tell me everything. did he have any injuries? any new medicines? and sure enough, i'd had a laceration from a cricket wicket, and a week earlier, and i'd received stitches. so he probed further. any antibiotics? did he get a tetanus shot? and they said, we'll look. and the answer was, yes, he got antibiotics, and he got a tetanus shot.

and he said what kind of tetanus shot? so this was 1961. anti-tet nas, att or serum. and the answer was anti-tetanus serum. and our father was a cardiologist, absolutely brilliant and knew everything in medicine. said to the doctors he's having a rare idiosyncratic reaction. he has optic neurorights, start an introvenus and give him massive doses of pred any sewn. so they did that. and after four or six hours i could start seeing gray, and then i could finally see deepak. [laughter] and it was an amazing experience. and that's when i decided to become a father -- become a doctor like our father. and i've told this story to professors of ophthalmology at harvard medical school at the world famous infirmary, institute. and they absolutely are

bedazzled. they say, oh, my god. unbelievable. 1961, such a rare reaction. >> so here's another story, and this is when he was in england, my father. and so was my mother. and we were staying with our uncles. i was 6, and so sanjiv was maybe close to -- >> 4. >> 3 and a half. and my father was in edinborough, and he passed his exams. he became a member of the royal college of physicians. and those days no e-mail, letters took two weeks, but we got a telegram from england that he had passed his exams. and so my grandfather, his father, took us both out that evening to see a movie. i still remember the movie. i don't know if you do. >> ali babb baa and the 43s. [laughter] >> and then we went to a

carnival, and he took us out for dinner. and then in the middle of the night we were woken up to the wailing of women crying. my grandfather had died. of a heart attack that evening. so the next day they took him to the cremation grounds, and he was cremated. we didn't go because we were very little. and the same uncle that he's talking about, you know, lived in georgia. he used to always make interesting remarks. and he said what is a man? what is a human being? one day he's taking the children out to see a movie and a carnival, and the next day he comes back as a bunch of ashes. in a bowl of glass. i remember that comment. and i, you know, for a 6-year-old to see someone and

then they've disappeared completely. sanjiv started losing his skin. his skin started peeling like a snake peels the skin. so he had sores everywhere. and they took him to see lots of doctors. and nobody could make the diagnosis. til my father was informed in england -- and, remember, it takes a while to get the information out. and he made a diagnosis from england. he said he's feeling vulnerable, and so he's losing his skin because he's feeling insecure about what happened. and then he actually, he was going to stay there longer, but he didn't. he took a boat, and two weeks later he arrived in bombay. and sanjiv's skin came back. now, in hindsight i'm thinking, you know, i wondered about this. was that my first clue to the

mind/body connection. [laughter] long time ago. i know, also, my obsession with the meaning of death. >> brilliant. you have this fascinating and hilarious story, bb gun story, and i was hoping you could share it with all of us and also the connection of how that really helped start this lifelong bond between both of you. >> right. so those of you who are sitting in the front or if you've met deepak before will realize and appreciate that he has a dimple in his chin. [laughter] i call it the kirk douglas chin. [laughter] and with great pride i want to tell you that i'm responsible for this. [laughter] so i was about 9 years of age, and deepak was 13. i was are -- 11. i was a very good shot. and then one of our uncles gave deepak a gift of a bb gun as his

birthday present. so i went outside to the front yard. there was a 5-foot pole. i took a can of cherry blossom shoe polish, put it up there, and i was knocking it, putting it back, knocking it. and deepak comes and stands next to me, and he says, go ahead, shoot. i said, what are you saying? i mean, i have a gun. he says, you never miss. remember the story of william tell? [laughter] and go ahead, i'm your elder brother, i'm telling you to shoot. so i was a little tremulous, i shot, it missed the can and hit him in the chin. [laughter] so he says, you know what? we've got to go home. mom is there, and our grandmother was there staying with us, and he says i'm going to say that i tripped, there was a piece of barbed wire on the ground, and it nicked me. so i said, deepak, that's a lie. he said, listen, how manymy has been telling -- mommy has been telling us a story of an ancient

epic spiritual text, and in it there's rama, the god, the incarnation of god and his younger brother. and i am rama, and you're the younger brother. [laughter] so you have to listen to everything i say. [laughter] barbed wire. so we go home, he's bleeding, and my mother comes out, she cleans, she says, what happened? so i say he tripped. there was a piece of barbed wire. it nicked him. [laughter] and that night our father returns. he would come home often at 9:00 at night seeing patients in the hospital, teaching, and we'd wait for him for dinner. so we're all sitting for dinner, and he says what happened to deepak? and he said, he tripped on a barbed wire. two days later there's a lump here. and my grandmother admonishes our father, says, you know, you're this brilliant diagnosing not decision, people come from all over india to see you, and you have not made the diagnosis in your own son.

there's probably a piece of rusty barbed we're stuck in there, so go get him an x-ray. and it's our summer holiday, so off he goes for an x-ray, and i'm pacing the veranda. [laughter] and every two minutes i go in, mom, did they call from the hospital? she said, you know what? you're unduly worried about this. just as she said that, the phone rang, and my father was on the phone. he said guess what we found? we found a little pellet lodged in there. [laughter] i've called a surgeon, he's going to extract it. so that's why he's got that little dimple in his chin. [laughter] >> it seemed like the key lesson there, he was a good shot because if he had missed a little bit, it would be here, right? and i wouldn't be here to tell you, share this story with you guys. [laughter] >> and moving forward in time, what age did both of you arrive in the u.s., and was it a challenge or a benefit arriving as two newly immigrants?

>> i came two years before sanjiv, and at that time there was the vietnam war was coming to an end. this was before watergate. a lot of you wouldn't remember that because you weren't born. and there was a shortage of physicians in this country. we had to go outside india to take the exam to come here because india had banned the exam. and furthermore, even if you passed the exam, you couldn't leave the country with more than $8, foreign exchange regulations. you're nodding, so you know the story. you know this time. so we had an uncle in the navy who was in england at that time. he lent our gave me a gift of $100. so now i had $108 which, if you're from india, is a very

auspicious number, 108 beads in the -- all of that. so i thought we have to do something really auspicious, and i went to paris, and i spent my $108 at the knew lin rouge. moulin rouge. [laughter] so when i arrived here in new york at jfk, i had nothing. but in those days no cell phones, you know, you had to make calls, and you had to put money. somebody told me you can make a collect call, so i made a collect call. to this hospital in plainfield, new jersey. they were so desperate that they sent a helicopter. there was such a shortage of doctors at that time. so my first experience of the united states is rising over manhattan in a helicopter looking at the manhattan skyline about this time and just totally being wonder struck. i said if this is manhattan, i

want to go to disneyland. [laughter] shortly thereafter, we arrived, and i was joined -- i was told by the nurse who was in charge of the emergency room which was going to be my first rotation that i could take some rest, i should be jet lagged and so on. so i went to the dorm, but 20 minutes later she called me on the phone. she said, dr. chopra, we have an expiration. and i had no idea what that word meant. [laughter] but, of course, i didn't want to let on, so i said, you bet, i'll be there. [laughter] i bounded down the stairs. she showed me to a room where there was a dead person, lots of machines, no people. in india you see only people and no machines then. [laughter] and so i looked at the patient, i looked at her, and i made my first diagnosis. i said, he's dead. [laughter] she said, i told you.

[laughter] we had an expiration. so now i knew what the word meant. [laughter] i said, but if he's dead, why do you need a doctor? and she looked at me very sternly, and she said pronounce him. and so, you know, this is a kind of a bizarre statement for him. your body, you know, your soul can't leave your body until a medical deity, otherwise known as md, says i release you, you're pronounced. [laughter] then i realized, you know, like everybody else our profession we have rituals even in the face of the obvious, listen to the heart, check the pupils. so we had learned english in india which is a little similar to british english where the word for a flash light is a torch. so i had said to the nurse, may i have a torch please? [laughter] and she now was looking at me very strangely. [laughter] there was another nurse outside,

and she looked at the other nurse and said he wants a torch. [laughter] so the other nurse kind of sizes me up and down, and she says maybe he wants to do a cremation. [laughter] so anyway, talk about culture shock. [laughter] but six hours later i was totally at home in the emergency room, you know? >> and, sanjiv, what was your first experience? >> so we came, my wife is also a physician. we were classmates at the same medical school, all india institute of medical sciences that deepak also went to two years earlier. a very competitive medical school, 10,000 people would sit for an entrance exam after you got a certain score in premed. then they would bit l it down -- whittle it down to 90, have an interview, and 35 were selected. and in the book i write i was first -- my wife was first. a pediatrician and brilliant. out of 10,000 people. but i was also first.

i was first on the waiting list. [laughter] but, yeah, think about it, that's 36th out of all of india. so we had, deepak had already been in the states for two years, and we'd heard stories, and occasionally we would call him and talk on the long distance call. and we decided to come to boston first before also going to new jersey, the same hospital where deepak had done his internship. so we stayed with deepak and his wife, rita, for several days. so we had sort of less culture shock. but for me one of the most interest withing things that happened on -- interesting things that happened on day one of the internship, i had already decided i wanted to be a gas to endologist and specialist in liver disease. and the person giving a lecture at noontime was a world famous professor located in new jersey. so he's about to give the talk on peptic ulcer disease, and

there's a medical student from rutgers, and he's sitting in the front row, and he's got his feet propped up in the air. and that would have been sackly lishes in india, and that was culture shock. a student sitting, and his shoes are facing this world famous professor. we would say, yes, sir, no, sir, good morning, sir. and he gives a brilliant talk. i'm mesmerized, i take notes, i ask a question. and then the medical student raises his hands, and he says i have a question. so dr. palmer said, sure. and so he asked the question, and dr. palmer gave what i thought was a brilliant answer, and the student got this quizzical look on his face, and he says, i don't buy that. and i said, wow. what an amazing country. you can disagree. [laughter] with the professor. we were never even -- we would never even conceive of or think about doing something like that. so that, to me, was the first episode of culture shock.

the other was we were told as interns that when you leave the hospital, you're not on call. call the hospital operator, call the operator and tell them, tell him or her that you're leaving the hospital and that you're signed out through whoever's on call. so the second day of the internship, one of the other doctors happened to be also from india. sanjiv, can i have a dime? i said, sure. so i gave him a dime. i see him go to the pay phone, and he's calling the new jersey bell operator. says this is dr. roe, i'm leaving the hospital. and then he hung up. [laughter] >> absolutely brilliant. deepak, how did you manage to basically educate a population, help change conservative western medicine to an equally important but different way to address some of the same issues, the most important and most single

handedly create the field of mind/body medicine? you're one of the greatest contributors to it. you come to the states in the 1970s. you and sanjiv go in different directions. sanjiv basically goes up to harvard, and you just did not stop with your persistence. and be you basically changed the belief of what medicine was viewed in the states. hold up? how? >> several factors in hindsight, okay? so i specialize and sanjiv went to gastroentomology and i do the study of hormones. and then for a short while when i was at the va hospital, i was rotating at tufts under dr. seymour likeland who is the president of the endocrine society at that time. and he was a neuroendologist. he was the president of the end written society of america.

and he was just like sanjiv said, we had brilliant mentors. he was absolutely brilliant in those days, and he was identifying hormones that we didn't know too much about at that time. hormones in the hypothalamus like stimulating hormone like growth factors, etc. i had a colleague at that time, her name was candice byrd. she later went on to become the chief of brain chemistry at nih. she's now at georgetown university. she identified something called peptide -- [inaudible] if you know anything about it orbit. but her boss won the nobel prize for identifying neurochemicals. and one day candice said to me, you know, these things that we're looking at -- because there was a new technique.

dr. yollow who was a va physician had actually won the nobel prize for discovering this technique. so all we did as fellows and residents was keep measuring these chemicals. and one day she said to me, you know, these are the molecules of emotion. so i don't know if there was -- [inaudible] the molecules of emotion by candice berg. i wrote the forward to it. it was a huge book, and nobody had used that term, molecules of emotionment and -- emotion. and so that was a little bit of insight that whatever happens in the mind is registered in the brain. you can't have a mental event without a brain representation. how could you? after all, the brain is what mediates the event. and the brain representation is in the form of electrochemical event. and then there's nothing that happens in the brain that is not registered in the body. in fact, what we found was that these chemicals, neuropeptides,

there were receptors to them in the cells of the body, immune cells in the stomach so now suddenly i have the ex-- the expression i have a gut feeling made sense because that was responding to molecules of emotion. now, sanjiv will tell you that the gut makes the same chemicals that the brain does, the same neurochemistry. so this was the scientific background, okay? the body's a network of information. and the information is mental, okay? it's from consciousness. that's a whole different story, what consciousness is. but then as a physician, any physician will tell you you can have two patients who get the same treatment, who see the same doctor, have the same illness, and there are different outcomes. you know, our progress know decision, what we call prognosis -- there are people on this side, people on this side, and you can accurately make a

diagnosis. you can never accurately make a prognosis. it's like saying the temperature today in new york is 62 because the average temperature in new york is 62. it doesn't make sense. or saying your income is $100,000 because you come from manhattan, and the median income -- it doesn't tell me anything about you. so, you know, i was thinking to myself why do patients respond unpredictably? even though we can statistically get some idea. but for the individual you can't, just like for the individual particle you cannot predict when it will pop in and out of the quantum vacuum. in fact, no individual event in the universe has a cause. this i learned much later. so this was all scientifically going on. i started to write the experiences of my patients. nobody would accept that in american journal. i started to write them in a

popular book. nobody would accept that. so this is, you know, one of those very strange things. i read an ad in "the new york times" by a vanity publisher called vanity press, vantage press. i paid 5,000, got a hundred books published myself with the experiences of my patients. it was called "creating health: the mind/body connection." nobody had used that word expression, the mind/body connection. somebody convinced the harvard to put it in their window. next thing i get a call from an agent. she says why don't you have a publisher? i said, i tried. she said let me get you one, and it was houghton mifflin, the same publisher of today's book, okay? in boston. next thing i get a call from a publisher in new york. i get a call from jackie to onas

of all people, and he said we want to get -- she said we want to get you published. what i found was i could make a case for the public that i couldn't make a case for my own profession. and that started, you know, in a sense the movement. >> there's this incredible bestseller out now called "how children succeed." why do you think both of you have had the same success taking completely different roads? >> well, that's a great question. i have to sort of reflect on it. i think it's the core values that were instilled in us by our parents and grandparents. and we were told, you know, to be daring, not to worry about failure. that in every adversity is the seed of greater success. one of my favorite quotes is from kirkegaard, great danish philosopher and theologian. and he once said to dare is to

lose one's footing momentarily. not to dare is to lose one's self. it's a beautiful quote. to dare is to lose one's footing momentarily. i think deepak was being modest when he started to talk about how he launched into this. i thought it was very gutsy and courageous when he embraced the mind/body connection. he had a thriving practice in boston. there were medical students from new england medical center, tufts university rotating. and one day he reads a book, anthony campbell? joseph campbell. no, it was anthony. >> joseph campbell is the other guy. mythology. [laughter] yeah, you know? follow your blessed -- doors will open -- that's joseph campbell. but he write another book by british anthony catch bell and seven states of consciousness. if you're more interested about medication, call -- meditation,

call this number. so he went and learned meditation with his wife. he came to our home in newton, massachusetts, told my wife and me i've been meditating for a month. it's the most powerful, life-changing event that's occurred to me. and i said to him, good for you. [laughter] i wasn't interested. my -- i had this concept of robes and chanting. and my wife, a pediatrician and absolutely brilliant, went and learned it. and then i noticed amazing changes in her. so i was a holdout for about a month. and then i said to the teacher of transcendental meditation, i said i have three concerns about learning meditation. the first one is i'm in a position as the associate chief of medicine at the va medical center to occasionally reprimand brilliant med cool students or even junior colleagues, and i don't want to become mellow. number two --

[laughter] i am playing in a tennis tournament, and i'm in the finals, and i'm very competitive, and i don't want to be just applauding every passing shot that my opponent hits. [laughter] and number three, i enjoy a single malt scotch, and i don't want to give that up. [laughter] and he said, listen, in terms of the scotch, most people start to drink less. in terms of the tennis, i'll be back. and he comes back with a pamphlet that's called the team program in athletics, excellence in action, testimonials by joe namath, willie star gel, olympic diving champion. i said, that's good, but will i win? he said i can't guarantee that, but if you lose, you won't feel that bad. [laughter] and then i said, okay, what about disciplining brilliant people at harvard medical school? he said, you'll be more assertive but from a silent level. and so i learned meditation. it was most powerful thing i've done. now i tell my colleagues and

medical students and house staff, i was interviewed in the boston globe giving some pieces of advice at the end of the year, and i talked about meditation. and the best thing i think is, and it's an ancient saying, it says you should meditate once a day. and if you don't have time to do that, you should meditate twice a day. [laughter] >> as an aside, i should say though, you know, it's not really clear what happens. there's so many circumstances of that story is true. the story i said is true, but also at a certain point is i was in a practice with other physicians, a cardiologist, gastroend romtion, etc., and i started to notice that they were embarrassed about being my colleague. and i also realized that i was, at that time an assistant professor at bu medical school, and i got the feeling that they

would fire me anyway. so i should leave before they fired me. and i don't want to embarrass them. so at that time i met another friend of mine who's long since passed, and he invited me to california, and i left. and so, you know, these are things in hindsight something was going on. i was very restless, and then, you know, the world responded. >> just a comment about that. you know, back then it used to be called alternative medicine. and it's as though you either took off for western medicine, or this was this alternative thing you could do to help yourself as a patient. and now even at harvard medical school we have complimentary medicine, integrative medicine. deepak comes and gives a talk every year at a course that i direct with a colleague of mine, martin abramson, who's at the world famous diabetes center. and about 12 years ago the

chairman of medicine at the medical center where i have my clinical appointments said, sanjiv, we should invite your brother to give a keynote and see if he could talk about spirituality and healing in medicine. and i said to him, i said, bob, i wouldn't feel comfortable with that. that's like nepotism. but you can invite him. [laughter] and he invited him, and now deepak's been coming for the 10 or 12 years and doing a session about two, two far hours spirituality and healing, more recently superbrain beyond brain. and i sit in the front row on the side very proud of my brother, and martin abramson, my colleague -- who's like a younger brother to me -- introduces deepak. >> and taking it further, when do you think outside harvard across the united states and also across the world, when do you think mind/body medicine will be on equal standing and

fully accepted universeally? more and more people, most of the people here are real strongly attracted to mind/body medicine. when do you think it will get the respect that it deserves? because it's affecting so many people so positively. but when does it enter the curriculum? and you mentioned harvard, but how about other types of universities and places outside? >> we're going to have a different take on this, so let deepak be go first. [laughter] >> so for things to be accepted, there has to be evidence, and there has to be documentation, right? so right now on the research side the main interest is in cellular biology and measuring genomic activity and what, you know, the sign who i did superbrain with, we are now doing a book called supergenes because it turns out only 5% of your genes are fully pen trant. the rest respond to your

lifestyle, okay? which means everything from sleep to diet to exercise to stress to personal relationships, social interactions, environment, everything that is other than the gene, okay? that's brand new information. neuroplasticity, brand new information. as you get a scientific paradigm, then there will be clinical studies. right now we are doing studies with a nobel laureate, elizabeth blackburn, looking at the genome. there was a recent study from harvard looking at the genome, but there's all this happening right now. the thing that people are realizing is that your body is not a noun. it's a verb. see, when we look at a molecule, it's like taking my photo and saying that's deepak. the body's an activity. and when you look at something, you freeze the activity, and you call it a molecule. but you can't stop the activity. so this kind of insight is going to influence the way research is

done, it's going to influence the way we do clinical studies, and the clinical studies are, you know, we call them double blind studies. but there's a problem there because, you know, there's always a doctor/patient interaction no matter how double blind you are. and you can't really measure that so easily. so there are compounding factors. but the fact is at our center we have 25 hours of cme credit for anyone who takes a mind/body training at our center given by the american medical association. we have students from ucsd going through our center. and almost every hospital in the u.s. anyway has a department of integrative medicine. so we've come a long way. >> what -- [inaudible] happened from your perspective? >> it's actually happening at harvard medical school. i'm very humbled and privileged to serve as the faculty dean for continuing medical education at harvard medical school. i personally direct 12 large postgraduate courses.

but under the jurisdiction of the ages of the department of continuing education, we have 270 postgraduate courses, distance learning, 70,000 people, 100 online modules. and we reach out to about 90,000 clinicians and physicians and health, allied health professionals throughout the world. now, a couple of years ago we had a course called meditation and psychotherapy. and the keynote speaker there was his holiness, the dalai lama. and he did a three hour session on wisdom one day, and the next day a three hour session on compassion. and it was absolutely breathtakingly beautiful. as part of the faculty in addition to harvard medical school faculty, we had richard davidson, and he's considered one of the top 50 neuroscientists in the world. talk about humility, sometimes somebody would ask his holiness,

the dalai lama, a question, and he would say i don't know the answer to that, please ask my guru, richard davidson. and he has done studies, but this is true -- deepak mentioned it, and herb benson has done some studies at harvard -- not only do people learning meditation have the subjective experience of feeling happy, fulfilled, creative, better relationships, but you see anatomical changes in the brain. you can see it on cat scan. you do functional mri, and you can see changes in different parts of the brain. so that's happening, and that's the concept of neuroplasticity. we have a physician, brilliant professor of neurology at harvard medical school, and he talks about neuroplasticity, he talks about neurons, he talks about the neurobiology of leadership. and when you have time just go to wikipedia, and if you haven't heard about mirror neurons, read about it.

one of the most fascinating syndromes to me in medicine is phantom limb syndrome. so somebody's had an amputation, and they experience pain in that void, in the missing limb. and he stud -- quoted a study, and he's done seminal research in this field. so somebody's experiencing phantom limb syndrome, and next to him a stranger is massaging his leg. and the neurons in this patient with phantom limb syndrome fire, and he gets relief of his pain. it's absolutely uncanny. so, you know, western medicine and the technology, looking at cat scans, functional mri is now catching up with the subjective experience that people have had for thousands of years. one of my favorite sayings is the absence of evidence is not

evidence of absence. so that the fact that we don't have these double blind, randomized, controlled, ironclad studies doesn't mean that it's not true. it will happen. it may take years for the research to catch up. >> so, ladies and gentlemen, what we're going to do is since there's a lot of people standing, i want to give the people that are standing the opportunity to ask questions, and since we're also being filmed by c-span and they're broadcasting, if you could just wait until a mic gets to you so people on television, millions of people can hear. again, we're going to start with people that are standing, and we want to give as many of those people as possible a chance. and also i just want to, again, thank just one friend, dear friend and somebody that's one of my favorite people in the industry for making this event happen, and that's maggie savan of amazon publishing and doing the great job with this incredible book that everybody here in the audience has.

[applause] so can we get somebody maybe from the ricketted view -- restricted view or standing up all the way in the back? please raise your hand if you have a question because, again, i want to give -- yes, you right there if you could, please, hand him a mic. please. ..

>> but now using the technology kedging up what has been done for thousands of years. >> writes. but we have a very clear distinction i am the beneficiary of the right to total hip. i had nocturnal paid. if i didn't know better i would think i had prostate cancer and i saw that the surgeon and i had a right total hip just seven weeks

ago by the way and one week ago i said that is so good it is so i would challenge anybody in individual medicine if somebody has been a cockle ammonia than the assembly has hiv or hepatitis c you need the right medication is a somebody fractures a bone you probably need a sling and a good orthopedic surgeon. so western medicine does amazing things. somebody needs a liver transplant one patient required 100 units of blood and then ran the boston marathon. how do we prevent obesity? can make your somebody's

relief? but in my mind there is a certain minutes and. [laughter] that we will agree to disagree. [laughter] i have actually experienced i had arthroscopic knee surgery then add of the blue my knee was:and i canceled the golf i was going to play that weekend which was very depressing on a very beautiful spring day in boston that i need to friend and she said, sanjiv you mentioned to guard relief from your back pain because i had a herniated disk from the acupuncturist and then she got out of the car in the parking lot and kicked her foot into the air. so the next day i had a

little hiatus i called the acupuncturist and i went to see her she did the acupuncture and even compared one need to the other then suddenly the swelling and pain is gone. i do not understand my wife was not there so i called her on the cellphone she would come home to hours later and i went to the country club and played nine holes of golf. [laughter] so i can with those things. [laughter] i don't take any medication and i have never had surgery for never been hospitalized, but i agree with much of what he said the want to nancy your question because u.s. very specific question about how medicine is practiced.

sanjiv comes from harvard medical which is the gold standard but here are some statistics. [laughter] you can look them up. i did not make these up. between 36 and 40 percent of patients suffer from a disease which means diseases as a result of medical treatment. 80% of pharmaceuticals are of optional or marginal benefit which means it could not make of bits of a difference except maybe some side effects and some money. the next time you watch television look at the commercial for any pharmaceutical whether a market -- a migraine whether sexual impotence or it could cause death. [laughter] it is a total panorama.

[laughter] also and but to an unstable and does not promote life but it is the most common procedure. the second most common procedure for the heart is angioplasty progress does not prolong life or stabilize more than 3 percent of people. these are alarming statistics but yet this surgery is done everywhere. hysterectomy, 95 percent is useless. so we are talking about huge amounts of money that are spent on procedures our father would it make a diagnosis but today if you have a headache and planning go to the emergency room and

then you are lucky because nobody has the time so health reform is not health reform it is insurance reform. most of the expenditure is end of life care. nobody is allowed to die in house. lock -- hospital i will not have any of these resuscitated of procedures for i have been in community hospitals with the same standards don't apply an icy doctors ought directing and operation of electrolytes that if you did not the patient would die but if you keep directing it even though if it is dead it has no life. so it is prolonging the

suffering but the only people who make money or the medical providers. this is spending huge problem i have discussed with politicians. [applause] and but we have a system then nothing with the gold standard. [laughter] we have a system where for with the 20 lobbyists in washington. >> and then the military? larry rethink the money makes non negative country makes money to supply arms to india? if they go to do by a trade. we have huge problems when the incentives for treatment

becomes monday and then the corrupting influence of baker will sell you bread how do you think there is make money? for every chemotherapy treatments that they give. i am not saying you should not have chemotherapy but question. and to get this is a six and to get the information and you will know more than the average medical provider. [applause] >> i would say to that don't only question the medical practice, the person who has the same goal degree behind their name but also the other factors and the herbalist.

but they will die within a few days if you have kidney failure you can get dialysis if you have severe lung problems you can be on a ventilator then you could be fixed. if you have a huge liver failure you better pray you get a transplant in time and every single year looking at the medical literature, hypertension, he art failure, kidney disease disease, by the way 1 billion people of the disease. 1 billion have chronic liver disease. >> order you taking?

the list goes on and on. dr. what you think about that? is a homage to you paying? >> $322 out of pocket per month. i say i call that a wallet biopsy. end it with what is happening right now when and then to set this up. it is a part of nature so we have to apply the same standards to western medicine to commentary and integrative medicine as well >>. >> we have the ability to be

informed these days henry cb inform these days. >> anybody on the stairs have a question? what about the lady behind the camera man? >> what do you think of. [inaudible] >> this is a good good question because many years ago it is a long story but i was ambushed well i will, i hope he watches the program. [laughter] i was ambushed by the three a minute per cent of our time is from england and he came as a reporter for channel four and was very

happy with a conversation which we had which was about two hours then i was in the movie that he produced about enemies of science and enemies of reason if you want to check it out go to you to because 1 million people have watched that i was not personally offended that the reason he ridiculed me is i said a shift of consciousness causes a shift in biology. that is an important statement but it is different from the dream state, different than it would be from when you're sleeping and in that tradition there is a description of states of consciousness which i don't have tied -- time to go into

but cosmic consciousness and unity consciousness. what do they do? the shift of consciousness and when you shift the consciousness i used to wonder what is healing? while we say it is all good for preventive medicine, it is not true. you can cure asthma, many inflammatory disorders and publish studies on all of this but what is happening biologically? and finally i realized what comes to all these people is the word healing and it all

means the same thing but biologically when we go to medical school one is homeostasis. if you enjoy yourself you need the inflammatory response but if you have exaggerated response then you have odd review and allergies and exaggerated inflammation is to be a predisposing factor for almost every disease now there is a movement among some of chemotherapy is to treat the information first and chemotherapy second because many see it as a chronic disease. is a protective response but what is the feeling response? a return to homeostasis. the dynamic nine change in the midst of a change and

those who are getting better now matter what the treatment was with meditation or midsize or deep hypnosis or biofeedback or know what i like to call by a regulation because all of these that can monitor that, go to the baseline stage of homeostasis. so when we go to medical school to say this is said gastroenterologist. not being were thinking or doing but to be at the level of human beings. but that evolution has designed us with self regulation and that is what happens.

it is a long answer. [applause] >> we will take two more questions. that lady there. then one in the back. we will take three questions. they are dedicated. [laughter] >> to be successful in life to each talk about be willing to dare to take on a risk with also had failures along the way and i wonder whether some of your most failures were and how they form your past success? >> [inaudible] [laughter] >> i mentioned in the book a chapter of a fellowship that

was very prestigious because i was asked a question that i did not know the answer to. how many milligrams? and i said to my supervisor supervisor, my professor, i think it is 2.3 milligrams but i am not sure. let me look it up and in front of 20 people and other fellows they said you should have that information in your head by now. so i took my briefcase and dumped on the bet and said you don't have it in your head by now and i walked out of might fellowship and he called my wife and said he blew his career and my wife was pregnant with our son and we were earning $600 per

month and i actually read in "the boston globe" looking for the emergency room physician there was a hispanic doctors and a great friend of mine but i have the medical license and i need the money. and he said i will train you so for one year i worked moonlighting basically and i did feel like a failure at that time because i felt responsible for my wife, my children, the fact i joined a prestigious fellowship, i walked out and it hit me a long time to realize that as long as i live for the approval of my peers and my superiors i cannot do what sanjiv says. it took me awhile to realize that if i wanted to explore

something that needed to be explored now we talk about the science. so i have to be independent of both criticism and flattery. i sat down one day to make my goals in life and as a professional and next to professional one of the goals was i want to be in a book of disorders of the liver. i burned the midnight oil and that was my passion back then there was no such thing as google. i had to go to a the medical library which has the largest collection of medical books in the world to go to the basement and subbasement you dig up the original articles published

in 1970. and then i write the introduction and then i wrote three chapters and send it to five publishers and four of them said thank you very much but we're not interested and we already have a textbook in herpetology. and then the last one said i really like your writing sky it -- style i would like to take you out to lunch and so then they went to do lunch and as i am sitting down he says we're not interested in your book bryce if you are kidding? you came all the way to tell me that? and he said we like your writing style. and we would like you to write or edit a book on castro intestinal physiology that will be given to secondary medical students.

i don't know if deepak had said it but every adversity is the seed of greater success. and i said i will get to books. i will still get my disorders of the liver published but then edit the second shi'ite textbook and i invited a colleague of mine and i said you and i will edit the book and we will invite the entire boston and a mafia at children's hospital union medical center, can we did that. how did it feel 9,989 times? he said i did not fail. i discovered 9,999 ways in which it does not work. when he was 57 his company burned down his factory

burned down and a lot of people commiserated with that and he said white you do that? all of my mistakes have been burned and now i can start new. so it is really an attitude and we are fortunate that those values were instill in us when we were young. >> to be on the "frontline" in the community i was wondering with chronic lyme disease they are suffering greatly and we were hoping that perhaps we could get some help for our suffering because we cannot reach homeostasis was all the alternative medicine and all the western medicine, we are not getting well. >> i am sorry i am not the right person to answer your question. my specialty is liver disease. i think this question with

the best cast of a rheumatologist who also embraces integrative medicine with the mind body connection that could be your best bet or maybe deepak can help. >>. [laughter] there are integrated oncologist and rheumatologist and infectious disease specialist there is a list of all of these people to go to the web site to get more information but i am not the right person to answer that question. >>. >> would you leave us in a group meditation? i know i am asking a lot.

[laughter] [applause] >> i want to ask you a question. did you meditate this morning on your own? >> [inaudible] in a derek is a wonderful saying you should meditate once a day and if you don't have time you should do it twice a day. maybe deepak will lead the group. >> here is something if you are not already familiar how many are familiar with the 21 day meditation challenge? please raise your hand. i would say 15 percent of the people in the room. every three months our center along with oprah winfrey we offer a meditation online and 700,000 people meditated together with us over three weeks and 21 days i was

traveling in latin america and moscow and how many heard of the 21 day challenge? and 15% were just like this i just want you to know if you go to the deepak chopra center free of charge you will purchase a pate with the largest betterment in meditation that has ever been done in the history of civilization. there has never been. [applause] i don't want to miss the opportunity to tell you this and you can register now. it is three. that is the kind of movement we need to start with a critical mass of awareness. i will leave this is. >> after the meditation is done everybody needs to remain seated for two minutes because they have a

media appearance than they need to make it out. so please remain seated. >> there are many kinds of meditation, transcending, re flective, a self aware, i will start you on something that if you just try your day with it, your day will go a little better. okay? closure rise. put your awareness on your breath and let your mind settle. let your mind settle into your breasts. don't try to manipulate it.

now bring your awareness to your heart and ask yourself who am i? and allow any sensations are images or thoughts to spontaneously surface. question, who am i. and now ask yourself the question, what do i want? again, allowing any

sensation, image, a feeling, or thought to spontaneously arrived. what do i want? and now one final question, what is my purpose and how can i serve? what is my purpose and how can i serve? then allow any questions promise sensation, image, a feeling or thoughts, what is my purpose and how can i serve?

just a reminder, you don't go looking for the answer, you only ask the question. the answer is deep in your soul. just relax into your body. and please open and your eyes. there are many kinds of meditation. this is a reflection. there is some foreigners, transcendence, a choice making, knowing the difference between the perceptual and actual, but if you just do three or four minutes of reflection, living the question first of all, you will experience synchronous city with meaningful consequences in response to the questions that you ask and do this every day and your date will be much better. thank you.

[applause] the. >> ladies and gentlemen, again to sink the brilliant sanjiv and deepak. [applause] >> in the early 1900's cocaine was used by a wide number of americans, it was then coca-cola and in a number of products. there was concern when black people started to use cocaine for example, "the new york times" ran an article in 1914 about black people being the new southern menace and the way cocaine was talked about as black people being under the

influence under cocaine was it caused them to be more murderous and cause them to rape white women and unaffected by bullets and all of this nonsense going on then and now although the language has been tempered by a drug is such an easy scapegoat. >> north carolina politics over 40 years and when i started out as a rookie many years ago i really wanted to read a book that explained

it all to me in terms how the state got to where it was and why it reflects the democrats and republicans and where the political machine had dominated not just in the last few years but through the decades and i wanted to connect and i wanted to go looking for a book and there wasn't so i decided i had an interest in history so i decided to write that book so i could learn a process and other people that came along and not only for the scholar but also for the layman or the person who is engaged and wants to know about north carolina. north carolina is one of the fastest growing states and people are coming in from all over the country also those who have lived in north carolina all their lives in a novell the state's political history

but want to know more. people have vast with the paradox and the reason is what people don't understand is north carolina politics. like jesse helms that is probably the most famous politician in recent years except john edwards and how can it have progressive politicians like jim hunt, or terry sanford who was a governor in a united state senator or go back in time to one of the leading liberals of the south. how can this same group of voters? it is a paradox the state has both liberal tendencies and major progressive universities and areas like the research triangle and conservative tendencies and

fast parts of the state that are conservative and it confounds people who live outside of north carolina to say really is it a rest day, of blue state, it tends to go republican in presidential races but yet until november we just had 20 straight years of democratic governors. it is a paradox. if you look at ideological it is middle america. one of the interesting things the gallup poll organization does is call each state in the country so mississippi is about the most conservative and hawaii and new york the most liberal and north carolina is in the middle. because of that it doesn't take much to pushing into either call on. republican or democrat. it goes back and forth very easily so the slightest

national them will push it and choose the democratic column or republican column so in 2008 it went slightly the closest dates that barack obama won in 2012 it was the of clauses state that mitt romney won and what happened in 2010 the republicans won control of the state legislature which was a critical election because that came with redistricting and that gave republicans advantage that could draw new lines and congress. that has given the republicans' a leg up in the next election for 2012 right now for the first time since reconstruction have control of the entire state government, all three branches with that is very unusual because the winter of period of democratic control with the governorship.

the only southern state that it has occurred but east of the rockies. the only other was washington state and oregon state. it goes back and forth because it is so evenly balance. a really is a purple state. from the democratic point* of view terry sanford elected governor 1960 them later president had to university then elected to the senate in '86 was important because he was governor of north carolina during the period of desegregation and that was a critical time in the south. he was guiding the stay on a moderate course to set the course during the time when george wallace was standing at the courthouse gate and at that time he was pushing in a modern way towards racial -- racial integration that opened the state for

things like that made it business friendly and made it different from the deep south and he was very critical to help set the reputation as a moderate progressive southern state different from the rest of the south on the other hand, senator jesse helms was important because not only important in terms of helping build the republican party in north carolina hoping to switch conservative democrats which was very powerful but also a national figure to help build the new right in helping reagan to be elected his presidency was very much in doubt and tell his organization save his political career in 1976 primary here in north carolina. and many republicans now control the state legislature things just late -- jesse helms's of role

models of those of toolhouse i think a very important but he was a populist cent -- senator and a wealthy democrat been to portray himself as the pork man we have all seen that travel to make them more cosmopolitan but that is not always true and he traveled the lot and actually now became very anti-immigrant but when he was traveling and elected and mussolini's italy and he

saw that germany and italy and the commies were blooming well in the great depression and of course, one of the reasons they we're doing that is they were rearming themselves as they were about to go to war and he became very impressed with hitler and mussolini and began to go back home to talk up hitler and eventually that led to the downfall because among the southern states there was very little isolationist sentiment that was midwestern republicans that among southern democrats but there was strong support for england and eventually pay forced him to retire because they put up with a lot of shenanigans but not the pro not see sentiment.

people can say what they blind and san arbor was the hero and very bright and conservative and a lot of ways and a staunch defender of segregation that was one leading strategists but he is remembered today through watergate leading the watergate hearings and to be a conservative democrat gave moral moral authority to lead the investigation because they saw that as an assault on the constitution he was a southern democrat and also stood up to mccarthy who was leading a the witch hunt and could do it in part to spend most of his life as a judge everybody was afraid of mccarthy because he could scare anybody by saying if

you attacked him to say you were working for the communist or you worry too of the communist but nobody wanted to stand up to him so when erving went to washington, he was on the committee dealing with these issues and said i will stand up to them and he was fearless and he was a freshman and mccarthy went after on national tv and then north carolina is a little different from the rest of the south i don't thank you can stereotype the state is different from of much of the south you will

be surprised. >> i have five books on my reading list. the one i am trying to finish right now is called 10 letters this was written about a year-and-a-half ago looking back at the letters written to president obama that he read stand letters every day so we went back to find 10 of them that had written to the president with real stories in the midst of the economic recession so it is a need to look back into some of the interactions people have with the president.

not so much about him but it is the good reid. when that is done i will move onto acts of congress another guy from the "washington post" looking at the national regulatory reform using it to explain why congress is so broken. and then back in the '70s to say there is a big difference between then and now and he finds the real dysfunction in a few different ways and after that another book, i am not doing this on purpose, a collision in 2012 to look back at the 2012 campaign so this is is looking at the obama of verses from the race and that is coming out in august. >> the other is through the perilous fight also of the "washington post"and is a

need to look back during the six weeks of the war of 1812 for what the city went through and how it changed and it is supposed to be a good read. if i get through two or three of those books i will be very proud of myself the other one is the great gatsby because believe it or not i never read it. >> on your screen is off 39 the book is called "state of disrepair" fixing the lt