.. you'd tell us to do it one day,

there's a price to be paid for that transparency. >> f b r director robert muller makes his appearance before the senate judiciary committee on:00 eastern using booktv. to did:00 the nsa before and after 9/11 and sunday at 10:00 immigration story. on c-span3's american history tv interviews with house to the shi'ite committee staff investigating whether there were grounds to impeach president richard nixon sunday at 3:00. booktv continues now with khalid hosseini who talked about his travels around afghanistan and relief work he has been doing with the united nations high commissioner for refugees. this is about our. [applause] >> thank you all. this beautiful synagogue is such

an extraordinary setting and to see all of you here, really acclaim this amazing book. this is a work of fiction but so resonant for any of us who imagine or have spent time in afghanistan. even though some like your first two novels this is less afghan centric, more global in its perspective. i am wondering still how central the complex history of afghanistan is to your writing, to your narrative, or -- >> guest: it has always been afghanistan of the last 30 some odd years has always been a kind of background character in my novels. features very prominently in the first and especially my second

book. it is in the background in this novel as well, not quite as prominently. part of that is as i wrote the novel, i saw the characters's struggles playing out on a more personal intimate level, more of a human drama, not necessarily playing out on the political arena. there are certainly characters in this book whose lives are seriously impacted by the events in afghanistan, by the taliban and in fighting in afghanistan. just not quite as forceful an impact. part of it is because it is my small way to change the conversation a little bit about afghanistan. i felt i wrote those things quite a bit in the first two books and it is a chance to talk about characters, relationships,

brother and sister and child talk about complicated feelings about love and so on and so forth. >> host: you said that this is a love story and clearly is the relationship, the severing relationship is rooted in this fierce love, but there is so much heartbreak and sacrifice and betrayal. talk about the family, the sibling relationships are central in these parallel lives but there is also the father and child and the sacrificing of children, first in the allegory which you open, sacrificing the child to the devil but then of course the heartbreak that follows. >> the novel is shaped like a

free. at the heart of the novel is a love story between a boy who is 10 years old and his 3-year-old sister. we need them first in the early 1950s living in an impoverished village in afghanistan and on their way to kabul with their father, trekking across the desert and neither child knows what is in store for them in kabul. when they get to kabul something dramatic happens that splits this beautiful relationship between a brother and his little sister and they are separated and kit is the separation that devastates both in unique and specific ways and the story spread out to other places, other characters. one character in the novel has echoes because it is central in the book, across time and continent and generations and the loss of many characters but

that court it is a family story and a love story just like you said and it is love between brothers and sisters, between father and daughter and cousins. i am interested in manifestations of love that are kind of different from the usual. when you hear the word love there's the romantic notion of man meets woman and fall in love. i am disinclined to write that as a dramatic motive, very interested in law that you wouldn't expect between two people who have an unlikely, deep, meaningful relationship under difficult circumstances. >> host: so many relationships of love also involve caregiving between sisters and between -- what is it about that role of caregiving that also inspires

you to want to create these characters? >> it is a manifestation of love, something you don't immediately think about when you think about love, you think about beating somebody and falling in love and go on a date and that sort of thing but turns out love is a lot of work and it is tiring, it is complicated. my father became sick in the last year-and-a-half or two years of his life were very difficult. as he gradually lost his faculties and became increasingly dependent i saw my mother kicked care of him. he geodetic aided her life to caring for him and doing all the things, and in this beautiful

rock-solid expression of love, and that expression of love to me is very appealing because it is enduring and meaningful and it is very touching and moving. >> host: you inspired by the home -- the children's voices echoing, what about that home captures your imagination? s >> host: i kept waiting for a title that never came and i began to worry and i would e-mail my editor, what am i going to do? i started researching poems of my children because this book in some ways really is children and i found this lovely poem by william blake called the nurse at song. and all the hills echoed.

and allen ginsberg on youtube. >> host: alexandra singing. that is extraordinary. >> guest: there's a chance of a black line over all the hills echoing of and it struck me and i thought i would play with that title and talked to my editor and fool around with it for obvious reasons because mountains in afghanistan remains hypocrisy but also the -- also work echo as i mentioned earlier a central event happened in the book. and echoes across time and space and a deep impact on the lives of a great number of characters each of whom gave a chance to voice their perspective so the novel was composed like a mosaic

into law and creates collectively one big picture. >> host: there is a scene, the family massacre -- and the complexity of the moral choices made by those who come to afghanistan, making promises to return to california. >> guest: there is an afghan factor living in northern california. has been awarded 20 some odd years who returns to afghanistan after the fall of the taliban and has a difficult experience. for one thing when he arrives he

feels out of place, feels this place used to be his home but he is no longer, the experience of the people on the street have bypassed him. he has not shared the struggles and to oil and wars and all the horrific things that happened. he is not sure how to connect to other people or interact with them or what is the proper way to engage with the locals or his own people. he feels a little like a fish out of water and then he meets this young girl who has been brutally injured and he meets her in a hospital and something about this little girl awakens something in him and this sort of dormant philanthropic impulse in him and he becomes very attached to this little girl and decides he is going to help her. and of course he returns home and he learns a difficult lesson

about the limits of his own powers, how complicated generosity really is, about the strenuous and difficult nature of actual kindness, about charity. it becomes a morality tale. it is something i have thought about a lot when i go to afghanistan. when i first went to kabul my impulse was to help everybody. i was careful not to promise anything to anyone but wanted to help everybody on the street. and when i came to that home i realized that is just human impulse, emotion speaking. to actually want to help people you have to be organized and you have to think -- it takes time and patience and work and perseverance and so far and so

forth. some of the scenes in that story. >> you have the khalid hosseini foundation, your work as the un envoy. there is this impulse to find structure, the need to help. >> absolutely. i have made it abundantly clear one reason i started my foundation was i had overwhelming guilt when i went to afghanistan. when i went to kabul, this is the insight of the 12-year-old, not particularly deep but doesn't make it fun true. when i went there, felt very guilty because my life is so charming to. this was before publication of my books and so on, little life of complete privilege and yet i saw these people on the street and realized the only thing

separating me from that man selling chewing gum on the corner in kabul is genetics. i had been born in his family i would have been a refugee camp in pakistan and wouldn't be where i am. what it boils down to, deep inside this annoying feeling of unearned privilege. that creates a feeling of survival's built. i know other afghans feel it as well. my foundation, other reasons as well but one of the reasons i started is to turn something that i found was the negative emotion into something positive, productive and as a vehicle to do something that hopefully would make a difference in the lives of people i have written about in my books. the point is to help people like my characters, the widows and orphans and elderly and sick and people on this street and downtrodden people.

>> having recently been there with secretary john kerry and the president gave a speech largely motivated by the necessity to refrain our relationship with afghanistan and the region, what is your perspective going forward? do you seize this landmark election as conceivably being the first truly free election of handed off of power and successful withdrawal, can afghanistan stand on its own militarily? >> very big questions facing afghanistan. i don't think anybody knows the answer to that. i don't think the afghan people know. i would describe the upcoming two years as a time of uncertainty in the minds of many afghans, certainly those i have spoken to. there are some who are

convinced, i happen to be not among them but there's a legitimate argument some make that afghanistan is coming, the doomsday scenario being not even the takeover by a taliban but what happened before the taliban which is all about militia warfare. there are people who believe that will happen. i happen to sink it won't and the parties that are involved in civil wars have learned lessons about benefits of peace, of a peaceful country, but certainly the bogeyman everyone in afghanistan is terrified of is a return to the chaos, rampant violence with impunity of the 1990s. >> host: one recurring theme in my work is the women of afghanistan, their efforts, self-determination, education,

the things americans have done. the things afghans have done for themselves, women business leaders who are extraordinary, they are worried about the fragility of legal rights they have won. >> they are. things for women in afghanistan have improved in pockets. if you were to go to a remote village in the south of afghanistan you wouldn't know what it really is. it could still be 1999 or 1950. things haven't changed much. in the urban regions like kabul, things have improved. there have been significant advances in the field of women's rights, female provincial governor in afghanistan would have been unthinkable 12 years ago before september 11th, women serving in the lower house of the parliament but i like you,

business leaders in afghanistan do worry. i think the role of women in afghan society has got to be preserved. women's rights has to be one of the cornerstones of national rebuilding if afghanistan has any chance of being the prosperous peaceful nation in the future. the way to lift yourself out of poverty is to empower your women but if you shot 50% of the population of the public sector and their imprisoned in their homes you are doomed so i am hoping it is not a bargaining chip at the negotiation table whenever those negotiations happen. >> host: people want to know how you go about your writing, how the creative process works with you. >> guest: is very disorganized.

i know writers who outlined their entire novels, spend a lot of time outlining, every chapters accounted for and they spend three months writing the book and in some way i envied that but it doesn't work for me. i just started riding, i start -- this novel, my latest book began with a very simple but clear and vivid the deliberate picture which was there was a guy walking across the desert pulling one of those little red radio flyer wagons and there was a cute little girl about 3 years old in the wagon and ten steps behind was of boy following them. i had no idea who these people work, where they were going but this image completely possessed me and i became absolutely convinced there is something in this picture that is moving, dramatic, i have to figure out what it is. it kept snowballing to the point that this book became in many

ways a more sweeping book with the largest cast of characters and largest number of locales and more ambitious and bigger in a thematic way than my previous books but it just snowballed. i didn't plan any of it. had no idea where the book was going, zero. i never know how my books will end so i write multiple drafts and have revelations, eat tiffany's and sudden bits of insight about my characters with each subsequent draft. picky molding and rewriting that feels real and truthful to me. a dramatic example is an entire draft and i had no idea that the two were related. a whole draft, i just thought of it ended change the tenor of the book.

it became a more powerful book about that relationship but it was not planned. >> host: it is not an accident that one of your characters is a public. poetry in fuses this book. >> guest: it is in the afghans fold. if you go to afghanistan, you talk to people, there's poetry in the way they expressed themselves, even in remote religions people no poetry. they can -- when we were in school we were obligated to memorize poetry and be able to recite it from memory. even in the way people express themselves there is a slightly poetic flavor to the way people speak but i think the most vivid example is when i went to the

dalai lama palace in kabul which was built in the early twentieth century by an afghan king, magnificent, massive palace with a garden that was gorgeous, it became a battleground for all the militia fighting in the 1990s and ended up being the perfect metaphor for what happened in afghanistan, splendor to absolute destitution and now it is this hulking ruin with massive holes and 6 and scorpions everywhere so i visited there, the palace and noticed graffiti everywhere on the walls and so much of the graffiti was poetry. i was very touched by it that. there were lines of classic poetry and wines of amateurish poetry but a lot of it was poetry and as a character in this book was a greek doctor and

he was working in kabul for and in geo and says why do you stayed here? what do you like about your people? graffiti artists, that is why i love it here. >> host: what do you hope people take away from this experience of reading this book aside from fact that it is so heartbreaking and so sweeping in its emotional grip? >> guest: there's a real answer to that question and the fake snow blanketed to that question. >> host: try the real one. >> guest: you want the real one? the real answer is i want people to be deeply moved. i want people to read this book and recognize something of being

human on this planet. i want them to read something and say i know i have had that, of i know when he is talking about and be able to connect on a human level with my writing. the fake noble answer would be i want people to understand afghanistan better. i happen to hope they do but it is not the reason i sit down to write. i fully understand fiction serves often of purpose and touches and reaches people in ways the writer never intended. my book have served as a kind of window into afghan history come afghan culture, afghan way of life, and i have given people a lot more vehement dimension of this country that is so much on the news with the same things

over and over again. >> host: often for the worst possible reasons for war-weary america, not understanding why we are there and what this commitment is. what you have managed to do is create the universality of human experience. >> guest: thank you for saying that. it is the first step toward an pretty. not i am trying to generate empathy but that is what the literature inherently is. always use the example of dave edgar's book what is it? to make me truly feel for the first time what it must have been like to be a sudanese refugees fleeing the civil war and trekking across the desert to make across the border into kenya and being attacked by wild animals and melissas. i felt a great sense of empathy for those boys because of this book, this novel and that is

what literature is, what fiction is for you to leap over the wall itself. that is the great gift of reading, you get to be somebody else for a while and see the world through their eyes and experience something different and come to understand better. >> host: we thank you for the gift you have given us and people have questions and we have some microphones and our friends from politics and prose have organized it so please come down the aisle. >> this is the loveliest venue, gorgeous. i am so thankful to be here. it is beautiful year. >> host: and the perfect place, perfect setting for us so thank you. >> still waiting to wake up. i am still waiting to wake up. can't believe i am face to face

with you. >> guest: thank you. i thought you were waiting for me to wake up. >> my friend and i are both educators, high school english teachers. i just want -- i don't have a question for you. i would just like to tell you your remark about how you may not be aware value have affected people really says in my heart because my friend and i were both -- we spearheaded an effort to get our curriculum in northern maryland which was very successful and i want you to know thousands of students have read your book and it has changed their lives from admitting this is the only book they have ever read to passing it down to their siblings to changing prejudice and stereotypes and i wanted to let you know that. >> guest: thank you very much.

i am not aware of that. [applause] >> guest: i am not aloof to that reality. i get stacks of letters from students who said what you said. is a great honor. i am just saying that is not my intention when i go to write. it just is something that does happen and i feel honored by that. >> to build off of that i was equally excited to read this book. i read it in nine hours during my first few months living in ukraine as a peace corps volunteer and my host family thought i was not because i wouldn't eat until i finished this book. that is how powerful was and it was very powerful. i worked for the start entity initiative where we were trying to encourage schools across the nation to adopt social and emotional intelligence as part of the rich fabric of education and so i would like if you could please to describe your

relationship between storytelling, practice of storytelling and empathy and how you might relate to each character and your writing you can get people to relate to these characters. >> guest: if it is a conscious effort to force that particular dynamic is doomed to fail. the best way i can achieve what you said is to get down to the mental bunker and just as close as i can tell my story, my characters, try to understand them to their very core, to inhabit them and wet them behave in ways that surprise me that i feel spontaneous and real aaron all-out the story to be as truthful and real to the extent of my abilities and i think it is the story as told that way it will have that kind of impact, at least a chance to connect

with people on high-level that might change their mind about something that might make a positive impact and be illuminating in some fashion but every time i tried, i have written with a, quote, agenda, it has always come across as very stilted, self-conscious, wouldn't, and i see and hear myself on the pages which is the last thing i want to happen. >> following you since your w. i see days, have been here is that long. thank you for a wonderful interview. thank you for coming to washington. i am sure i speak for many people about feeling a real sense of sadness when i finish a book of yours because when you read really good book you are sad when it comes to an end so i can't wait to read this one. i wanted to ask you about your character is. what happens to them when you are finished writing your book?

do they continue to live with you? do they have coffee with you or do you set them free once you finish the book and let them live their lives independent? >> they live with me until the time i and done. by which i mean when i have written the final draft and we are done editing. so working on -- they are with me and by with me not just what i am writing. there with me when i am taking my son to his guitar lesson. they are with me when i am waiting for my daughter to be finished swimming. they live with me and they become very real, like real people. it is cliche that a natural space in my life. once it is done, and i am done with the book aragon. they don't belong to me anymore because everybody will have their own idea of these

characters and they will be in the public and people often take great ownership of them. i will give you a very dramatic example of that. when i wrote my first novel there is a character who is the boy that the main character goes and rescues out of afghanistan and brings him back to the united states. during a book signing this lady walked up to me and cleans the overt and says hal is he doing? well i kind of jokes and saw that she was serious. how is he doing? it is a novel. she is not real. she looked at me and i could tell she wasn't going to have it. she said tell him i am praying

for him. god bless you, thank you. that is when i realize these characters don't belong to me anymore. >> i am another writer with a question. one of my favorite lines in the book, you say the creative process is featuring. >> host: you are the first person who asked question about react will -- >> i got the book when it came out and i devoured it. i was wondering if that rings true to you and you mentioned they vectors and dave foster and to do you steal from? >> guest: i don't mean that. >> i don't mean actual lease deal. >> guest: there is the sections that as a magazine interview where a woman, an afghan woman who is a poet, probably my favorite character in the whole

novel, she really is because her name -- >> she is very surprising to people who have a conception of afghan women and how repressed they have been legally and politically and physically because she is such a modern woman. >> guest: we meet here in the 50s and the 70s. she is a poet, a fiercely sexual creature, very brazen, very outspoken, extremely intelligent, insightful, enraging narcissist, budding alcoholic, a terrible mother, devoted mother, supremely talented and won't howard before anybody. says she is sort of this very

interesting creature. i really loved writing her but she is doing this interview with a guy and she says you know writing is really an act of thievery. you scratch beneath any piece of beautiful writing and you will find all matters of dishonor because writing involves taking things that don't belong to you. i am not talking about plagiarism. what she means and what i mean as well is as horrible as it sounds, you can't write from a vacuum. you can't just make things up out of the blue. ultimately you have seen something or been told something or observe something that struck you as very interesting and you incorporate that into your writing. sometimes it is a tiny bit of somebody's personality.

my characters very often are composites of things i felt personally i steal from myself all the time but also from other people i have come across in the course of my travels, people that i met and bits of them that i found very intriguing so every writer works that way. did they tell you they don't they are lying. >> i love the way you put that and she is my favorite character too. >> i was wondering if you thought your medical experience impacted your creative writing process and if so how? >> guest: my medical training taught me to not achieve a lot.

>> try journalism. >> guest: it taught me to persevere because there's a light at the end of the tunnel. it is the same with a novel comment and an act of perseverance. outside of that i compartmentalize my life very well. writing fiction was a way to escape medicine. i was not very happy, i had tremendous respect for the profession itself but it wasn't for me. i was kind of writing to escape that. i kept those parts of my life separate. if you go through my book there's a lot of medical stuff happening even in this new book, illnesses and so on so my training does come in handy so i use it to tell stories that that is the extent of it. >> i wonder how your books have been received in afghanistan and if they raise any controversy.

>> guest: my first book did, not so much my second book and i doubt my third book will. politically it is probably the least political of my books. if you have lived in exile for over two decades and all this stuff is happening in your homeland and you decide to write a story about the people who live there you can imagine they will have opinions and some of those opinions will be good and some not so good. my sense is in urbanized, younger, more liberal, professional afghan, there was a decent groundswell of support for my books because they talked about things that happened in afghanistan, and more open to discuss issues my novel raised

particularly with regards to ethnic tension and so on and so forth, but though older and more conservative, more religious members of the -- not that the book wasn't adequate but rather that the boat was carrying out what was best kept quiet and to me it is antithetical to the whole idea of writing. if you are going to be afraid of subject matters and you want to shy away from topics for fear of what someone else is going to think you have no business writing fiction because your job is to write about things that upset people not in a provocative way but in a way that people are uncomfortable talking about and create dialogue. my first book certainly did create dialogue in my community

a lot. >> are there questions? >> i was going to ask about all of a controversy over war, targeted killings, civilian casualties and real resentment of america. when you go back in the afghan community at large, do you find growing resentment despite all love mutual sacrifices by americans and afghans to try to find some kind of piece? >> in my experience people i have spoken to in afghanistan had a nuanced view of the american involvement, fairly sophisticated. on the one hand afghans are deeply pragmatic people and we

all know -- they know all that snow there is no history of welcoming foreign troops to afghan soil but at the same time among many afghans, nato and the u.s. presence has been seen in some way as a safeguard against the doomsday scenario, against the country, modeling in to alisha work and the kind of chaos we saw in the 1990s and that has been expressed to me over and over again. early on in the campaign through the mid 2,000s, fairly solid, majority of afghans support the presence of foreign troops. that has been compromised to some extent in the last few years because of the things you mentioned, partisan attacks that involve collateral damage, night strikes, night raids, air strikes because the facts of

cultural insensitivity that happen in afghanistan, flushing of the koran in urinating on the bodies of corpses of people and certainly the massacre of 16 people did not help that all and that was a disaster and there has been a gradual erosion of support and yet even today despite everything that happened i think many afghans do feel a sense of trepidation about the departure of foreign troops not because they like having foreigners on their land but because they have with some legitimacy concerns about how prepared the afghan state is, what kind of the state we have in afghanistan can it hold to gather, can it do its primary job which is to protect its population and that is kind of a bit of the questionable notion

right now. >> the sense we had fairly or unfairly that political leadership has not grown to the task with hamid karzai being the best example of a difficult relationship to put it mildly for american leaders. we don't see candidates emerging although apparently there will be a large field of candidates in this coming and election but we don't yet see the rise of homegrown candidates who seem to be carrying the mantle of afghan leadership. >> that is why this is a story in this country right now that doesn't get much traction but one thing is critical in afghanistan.

we have elections coming up and parliamentary elections in 2016 and the question of who the candidate is is important. but equally important is how are these elections carried out, are the elections going to be non-violent? are they going to be reasonably fair at least in the perception of the afghan public? of government that emerges with something perceived to buy the election have some legitimacy? if the answer is no, i do worry that could be a trigger for political instability or unravel into violence and in fighting so that is a critical, critical period coming up in afghanistan

next year. >> i know you just brought out this book and i don't know whether you are already working on other ideas for your next book. >> if anybody has an idea now is the time to tell me. i will do my book tour and then opened this fall and see what happens next. >> written about fathers and sons and mothers and daughters and siblings and generations of families so should we assume the family relationships are the central relation -- >> it always speaks to me partly because -- i have said this in the past 2 others because when i grew up in afghanistan, in that society, it was very difficult

to overstate what an important role family place in how you see yourself as a person and how you understand your place. you don't see yourself necessarily as an isolated individual but see yourself as a son or cousin or brother or grandson, family is how you make sense of the world and understand your identity. the fact that all the great things, forget about literature but great experiences of life continue in this organism, this family, forgiveness, fighting to, reconciliation, duty, sacrifice, to me an endless source of fascination, one that has always spoken to me. i don't know what happens next. >> if you had been a girl?

in your generation would you have the education and the opportunity? >> i grew up in afghanistan and fortunately got to see the final few years of an era, what many afghans were called, the golden era. i remember how startled i was when i saw someone in afghanistan, no idea, had never heard of it. in that period, in retrospect before the taliban before land mines or drug trafficking, the country was beautiful land was at peace and kabul was thriving and it was culture and an influx of modernization.

wasn't tehran or beirut but making its way towards forward. and seeing it as a great place to grow up, afghanistan was a great place to be a kid, from my perspective, a very poor country even then, i think if i was born a girl i certainly would have been educated, very outspoken, successful professional women in my family and friends, i don't think that would have been a problem. it is one of the key things, a red line in the future of afghanistan, the future of the men, the secret to how you raise yourself out of poverty. this has to be an asset, women's

rights and the economy and the world at play and the future of afghanistan is crucial and non negotiable. [applause] >> you can see for all of us, for me personally and for everyone in this glorious place this has been a very special special time, to hear your thoughts about how you create these wonderful works of fiction and this i think is the best of all. for those who have not had the chance to echo these extraordinary, compelling,

morality play over generations, set in this place and in california and universal to all of us. >> guest: i have learned so much from you and i am a great admirer of yours, you are terrific at what you do. if they told me you were doing this interview i was really floored. >> thank you. [applause] >> we like to hear from you. tweet as your feedback, twitter.com/booktv. >> are you interested in being a part of booktv's online book

club? cheryl sandberg's book lean in, women work and the will to lead. miss sandberg who is the c o 0 of facebook discusses why is difficult for women to achieve leadership roles in the united states and she talks about her own career choices and experiences. you can watch for talk about her at booktv.org and as you read the book this month post your thoughts on twitter with the hash tag be tv book club and right on our facebook page facebook.com/booktv. on june 25th at 9:00 eastern join our live moderated discussion on social media sites. if you have an idea for next month send you a suggestion which books you think which included online book club on twitter, facebook or e-mail at booktv@c-span.org. >> when you talk about transparency to the american public you are going to give up

something, you will give signals to our adversaries what our capabilities are and the more specific you get about the program and the more specific you get about the oversight the more specific you get about the capabilities and successes, to that extent you have people sitting around saying now i understand what can be done with our numbers in yemen and the united states and consequently i will find another way to communicate and keep that in mind and so there's a price to be paid for that transparency. where that line is drawn in terms of identifying what our capabilities are is out of our hensley you tell us to do it when we will do it that way but there's a price to be paid for that transparency. >> this weekend on c-span ongoing fbi director robert muller makes his last scheduled appearance before the senate judiciary committee at 10:00 eastern on c-span2's booktv, books and issues in the news today at 10:00, the nsa and before and after 9/11 and sunday

at:00 immigration stories on c-span2's american history tv interviews with key house judiciary committee staff investigating whether there were grounds to impeach president richard nixon sunday at 3:00. would you reading this summer? booktv wants to know. >> it happens to be anthony billings lee's degree. and written forward, the life and legacy of robert snows who was born in south carolina in 1839, born a slave, died in

1915. i have given two lectures on at because i have seen what is happening today in the country, supreme court decisions at the federal and state levels, reminiscent of what happened. robert snarls after being in sweden, delivering a shift and some other things. and delivered to union forces.

gifford took that test with his freedom, significant wealth and became identical to the 1866 constitutional convention in south carolina that code of side it for the state, those freedoms that had been granted former slaves with the emancipation proclamation in 1863. in that time after getting his freedom and after that convention began a member of congress, spend five terms in congress. you was one of eight to serve in

south carolina in 1992. and 1895 indian 1895 all of those rights and privilegess that had been given back with the process were all taken away from the constitutional convention of 1895 and if you look at what has taken place to 1876 because it was the 1876

presidential election that creates the opportunity and atmosphere that led to the ending of reconstruction which eventually led to the creation of jim crow and apartheid in the united states of america. so if you look at 1876 to 1895, in that 20 year period we saw the beginning of the end of dual citizenship in this country so that was a rather small value in

1915 he died a broken hearted, financially not near as well off as he once was so i spent a lot of time with groups talking about the history of this. if it happened before it can happen again. when we see this, what the supreme court is going to do with civil rights act in 1965 and most experts think that is about to come to a significant

local end, programs with affirmative-action simply means you can take positive steps, positive steps to overcome current defects in the nation. it will not happen by itself but if you bring it back to the close that that is about to happen. one of the leading scholars in this country who is saying that he believes chief justice roberts plan for the chief justice for the civil-rights

movement as we know it and to look at the numbers and sees that the immunity, the community runs about twice in the community. .. if people fail to learn the lessons