>> there are objective rules for a mathematician or engineer. but if you are a deconstruction is the only test is the other deconstruction nest. >> host: it doesn't matter where popular opinion says? >> guest: no. because their whole career and self-esteem and all of

that comes from their peers doesn't matter they are out of step in some pride to be out of step. >> host: are human intellectual? >> guest: i suppose you would have to say that. because my work is ideas and people like them or don't like them. that is the way it is. >> host: you talk about intellectuals clustering together as a whole. what do you mean by that? >> somebody called me the independent-minded and it is a belief pretty much the same thing and they may change from the group but during the first world war intellectuals on the left after they saw the carnage they all became a pacifist as a heard right after word and remained that way. >> host: how did intellectuals' cluster when it comes to race? >> different ways. early in the 20th century

they clustered behind the belief that genes determine everything. and some races were inferior summer superior and that means the people on the left john maynard keynes was one of the founders of the eugenics society they word dogmatic on this subject but by the end of this century they clung to the other end of the spectrum as a group anyone who dared to disagree was regarded as a racist. >> host: dr. thomas sowell where are clusters -- intellectuals clustered now? all differences between groups or presumptively by others and it is impervious

to evidence but the housing situation, when they discovered for prime mortgage loans were turned down come instantly to the media decided that if you look at the same data from blacks and whites for asian-americans and undermines it so completely. for example, when blacks were turned down at a rate nearly double of whites, at the very some time white to return dawn double that of asian-americans. moreover, black owned banks turndown blacks at a higher rate than the white banks see find it very hard to reconcile with what they believe but there is a tendency for the intellectual to find numbers

they don't go any further. which undermines the whole argument. >> host: in your book you talk about the factor of the motion to talk about race. how do you get rid of that factor or can you? >> guest: you can to a great extent so one thing i have noticed around the world is people of different races get along together. for decades even generations but yet when the right demagogue comes along they can turn against each other to be at each other's throats this happens in india and nigeria, with a whole list of countries. it is not wholly and spontaneous but one of the

less memorable songs intellectuals have taught those to hate those that are better off than themselves. >> who are those demagogues? >> i think it was an example and shrink the was held up as a model of a country of different races to got along wonderfully. the educated members of the two different groups so holidays services in the house of worship and so on. that was fine until he came to decide you wanted to be prime minister in these people who never had a race

riot began to have a riot which escalated out right civil war to go on for decades with unspeakable atrocities as american as loss of the entire vietnam war. it is a scary example of how bad a given time things to look good on the surface by yet when the right demographic comes along people could be turned against each other with hate. >> have there been demagogues in america in your view? >> yes. it is one of the most lucrative occupations. someone once asked me if i ever tried to convert some of the people to my views and i said jesse jackson makes 10 times what i make. >> what is that race in

history that you talk about? >> there are so many. naacp which once played a very important role but to have one goal was they achieve that they will have a going out of business sale they have to go on. that eeoc there to end discrimination but as it responded they have to expand the definition. so now if you don't like to hire people who have been imprisoned they think that is discrimination. >> host: you write and "intellectuals and race" the kind of society that can lead with the race industry is one in which a newborn baby enters the world, supplied with prepackage grievances against other babies born the same day. >> guest: yes. yes. the idea that you can redress history without a

specific context is around the world. but one of the goals they had was to redress the injustice is. nobody from the 17th century was alive at the end of the great world war. so they try to take this out by policies and the sets in motion a chain of the events that they were worse off than they had ever been before trying to undo what happens. >> host: do we have policies in this country that are formed the save my? >> guest: yes. we are one of many. affirmative action, the demand for reparations and so on. one of the sad things is we

talk in this country that slavery was something unique -- unique in the united states by in fact, it is one of the oldest institutions of human beings and with every single part of the world but for most of history people of the same race them solace for the simple reason they did not have the resources to take people from the of other continent someplace else but late in history this is what happened in the united states and in the western hemisphere. niche of the pathology is said to be a legacy of slavery. the irony is for example, the breakdown of the family family, most black kids grew up in homes as to parents under slavery itself and for generations thereafter as

late as the 1960's, most black children grew up in two-parent homes. on the win you start the massive great society that you see the family that has survived now begin to disintegrate. >> host: from "intellectuals and race" dr. thomas sowell there is evidence that the black subculture has a negative effect on intellectual achievement, in other words, white triplex students do not perform as well in settings where there are black students around them contrary to the theory that what is needed in educational institutions is larger critical mass of black students. >> that study which eyesight's that show that is not just my opinion of the whole thing. one was done by washington with all black academic institutions and over the

years through 1954, i forget the number now, 34 went to amherst college. very few at any given time. three-quarters of these kids graduated and of those more than one quarter were five vedic at the. so clearly you dawn naida a critical mass where you need is a good educational background and the absence of people who are a distraction for the purpose of college. >> host: is there relationship between race and mental capacity? >> guest: capacity, if you mean potential, then who knows? you cannot measure potential

currently and i suspect over the next 100 years or so but what you can recognize and measure is capacity develop capabilities of s.a.t. but potentially you cannot. >> host: when it comes to raise out is that play into the measurements? >> guest: i am not sure what you mean. >> host: is there a correlation between iq what we're able to measure jay and race? >> guest: sure. there always has been among all groups around the world. people in the islands off scotland's have the same iq as blacks in the united states probably some other reasons they are the isolated culture. people from isolated cultures tend not to have the same achievement as those who have a larger

cultural universe that they draw upon. the data is good for measuring what is likely happened at a given time under given circumstances but for the ultimate potential at the moment of conception nobody comes close to anything like that. >> host: where did this book come from? >> guest: part of it was from another study, intellectuals and society. >> guest: why did you breakout race? >> guest: research assistant to urge me to bring this out to begin with. i thought what does she know? then i realized she was right. [laughter] so now i thought i would bring it out. >> host: what about asian-americans to as a group perform better in school, why is that?

>> guest: the one four-letter word is work. they just work. at ucla and had to go out saturday night to the research library and i looked around almost everybody were asian-americans. i looked in vain for any black students. not many white students. so the following week when i went to class the asian-americans are better prepared there is no mystery. they worked. >> host: to you teach your standard? >> guest: no. i have not taught here. when i first came here i would sit anjous seminars. >> host: to miss teaching? >> guest: yes and no. teaching as it is today, and no. teaching as it was my started in 1962 at a little college, i really loved it.

when i taught my last class i would be looking forward to the next class the following monday over the years the academic world changed drastically. now when i got the offer from the hoover institute which is no teaching i said "this is it." it is sad there are many people out there who may well have wanted to teach that the conditions of teaching within universities became such it was not worth it. >> host: what is one of those conditions that changed that turned you off? >> the attitude of the students the faculty and administration. which doesn't leave much else. [laughter] the students began to think that they showed up to class that the letter b was a constitutional right and students would say i'm a

graduating senior and i said to believe in predestination? but they thought it was my responsibility to see that they graduated. i never took that you. >> host: and our guest dawn booktv on location a stanford university hoover institution talking with thomas sowell with his book "intellectuals and race." how many books have you written? >> guest: i have not counted. >> host: 25? >> guest: it may well be. >> host: as the fellow of public policy at the hoover institution what you do? >> guest: i was asked at once in a legal case as an expert witness and the opposing attorney says it says here that you are a senior fellow. what is a senior fellow do? we just say we dawn mind having a job like that. >> to spend a day thinking?

>>. [laughter] so when you talk about cosmic justice what do you mean by that? >> i guess what some people mean which is justice for groups the initial opportunity that i call the cosmic justice because no society is able to do that. so what you are asking for so anything vivaldi's differences with the families of are the same and economic levels for one set of attitudes education and

the other was not a and the family that this had had that same attitude may be a fine fellow and bright but does not have the same chance almost no way that he could. >> host: our goals like economic quality or opportunity for racial equality are those good goals for a nation? >> if you mean equality of opportunity, yes. if you mean any believe you would get the same end result, the answer is no. with they do is tear a society and are often making the group's up worse off than they would have been otherwise affirmative action and academia for example, take minority students for example, at cornell the average black student

enrolled at that time was the 75th percentile at the s.a.t.. the average white student scored at 99 percentile. the black students are on academic probation but those who were on the dean's list was sent to colleges that they were guaranteed not to make it. >> are there any affirmative action programs? >> no. not been a worthwhile. the easiest question of all. >> host: i may have just ask you this but have forgotten the answer are you working on another book right now? >> guest: one of the few times i do not have another book under way at the moment. i am always updating the books i have written but i am always doing that but starting on a new venture of

book writing, i am not. >> host: you mentioned at the beginning that intellectuals in your view should have a peer approval? >> no. i did not say they should have but if they all get the same wrong idea. >> do you have a peer approval? >> i never ask my peers if they approve. >> host: why not? >> guest: i don't care. >> host: what would be like your legacy to be with your work and what it has created? >> whatever it will be i will not be here so it does not concern me that much. >> host: feel like doing television interviews? >> guest: sometimes. i would not want to put a

percentage on it. >> host: how well did you know, milton friedman? >> it he was the reason that i wrote the book called knowledge. one of the fine human beings if you ask me to name someone who both had a genius and common sense of its day milton friedman then i would have to struggle to find another example. >> host: we have been talking with dr. thomas sowell at stanford university here is his most recent book, "intellectuals and race" this is a booktv on c-span2.

the interesting. we are following a group of teenagers into adulthood as they strive to be exceptional people. the protagonist as she gets older starts questioning this idea of the balance between ambition and happiness and it is pertinent to washington d.c.. matt and i will also be reading the unwinding. and never to it will be interesting to see storytelling to use different narrative's around america and including in youngstown ohio from where i am from to explore a bigger scenes of the decline in

america and the lack of trust in government and how that progress. it is a pretty pessimistic same but i do think it will be interesting to see how comes together. >> really what i have not seen in any report has been the story of these people with the constant sirens that go off every time a rocket is close by and they have 15 seconds to get into a bomb shelter. visiting elderly people favor some of the founders they were probably 65 or '70s they had not slept through the night and it was

2009 during the operation but in the months preceding that am part of what triggered it was the environment and people here about this in a way that is a backward said israel made a strategic strike with a particular target and that was responded to do with rockets. when in fact, there had been over 12,000 rockets in the last 10 years and some are small, a lot of them are no longer small they are iranian border larger and are not just the rockets that are small. these people have to get up and run every time there is a sigh rennie and they do it because they know they can be killed and people are

killed whether in great numbers appears on -- depends on when it strikes they retaking antidepressants the children were bedwetters the people were bused for a three day weekend to sleep in a hotel with no disturbance. these are old people. they space to these but one said how can you come here? my children will not visit are you afraid to be here? there were explosions going off nearby i denied even here site iran's. less than a mile from gaza. these people live that way, the mothers to get babies into the shelter, a little piece written by a mother that says which child to i grabbed? which one do i take first? every time she makes these decisions. that is ongoing and it is quiet right now because of the so-called truce with

tomas and everybody knows it will start up again. i went to north after the 11 on more and my friend janet was on the same tour and we were there during the 2006 world's fair in menorahs was bombarded they were larger rockets and we saw some of the places they struck and a whole half of the house was gone and people and went to jerusalem or somewhere else but some were in shelters for a month. living there. the state of war in israel is such that but it is such a little country, it is the size of new jersey so even in the south everybody has a relative in all the kids are in the army is not like in america you hear of it but it is everybody's problem. and the phone starts ringing when the things he to up even my phone. and recently in jerusalem

for the first time in 30 years that was an interesting experience because you find yourself saying should take a shower or not? [laughter] will i sleep in my normal pajamas because i have to go down with my neighbors and i don't think i went to sleep in those pajamas. that is stupid but the consciousness is what happens. the state of war is the ongoing danger or threat and a consciousness but it is also a way to go on with life in a matter what that is what the israelis are best at that they just go on and celebrate lee don't just sit and worry, they have dinner and parties and it is

a culture that celebrates life in the face of danger and that is what i would really say sums up in many ways. >> is shifting with the misconception like this like and in the book you mentioned menu were in the city north of israel in met with the mayor and standing in the rubble of city hall? what was in his? >> the people who had been shelters for almost a month for very upset that ended when.on negative when did they said we will live in shelters for three months but his view was that they would burn 10 trees we will

plant when hundred we rebuild and repair for the next time because some day we will be the gateway to israel and the lebanese will come and we will have dinner together. that is the goal. it is all about rebuilding and planting and trees are a big deal in israel the only country in the world that has more trees at the turn of the 21st century than at the beginning of the 20th and every by a plan street is so the first thing they do is plant trees more than our berndt it is said to finance the people were sorry the war ended when it did and people innuit ended badly because it was cut short of success but they just wanted