>> that it makes sure that none of the clerics at the top tolerate it or become complicit in those crimes. and if we require them to remove

every bishop that had, there wouldn't be any left because they are all required to abate and keep the secrecy. and their own law requires this. so we also have to demand that they operate under the laws, our laws, not the holy canon law. we also have to demand that there be an inclusion of women in management, okay? [applause] and not the exclusion of women and anybody who is a critical thinker. there is an absolute exclusion of critical thinking. because everybody that's in the clerical culture is male and required to obey, and if they don't at great peril they build -- they will be removed from pension, power, pay and pension but that's why there are so few, like tom doyle, out there still in the clerical culture.

and, finally, there has to be an acknowledgment that they are required to suppress their sexuality by this nonsense called celibacy. let's get real about that. let's get transparent and honest about that. celibacy does not cause sexual abuse any more than marriage causes incest. but it does require them to suppress their sexuality. then when it leaks out and to rape children and vulnerable adults, what happens in that culture under requirements and rules of the pope? keep the secret, avoid scandal, remove the priests and perpetuate the crime. and that's why they have the crisis because the top requires it. and if and when they become inclusionary, and feel the heat from catholic, non-catholic, continue to feel the heat from

the media and the heat from survivors and their families, worldwide, they will have but no choice to either fall or to dissemble and begin the truth telling. and until they feel that heat, at the top, we have not seen real fundamental change. and i have hope that we can because i've seen what has happened the last 30 years. and it took them 2000 years to get here. it's only taken us, together all of us, 30 years to begin to begin the awareness, the understanding, and now the call to action. and so i'm grateful to have been a part. [applause]

>> it's really difficult to go last, and i feel that there seems to be so much that i want to say, so one thing i want to make clear for everyone to recognize is that everything that's being shared here today is current. we are not talking about everything from history, or to assume that this is all in the past. because children are at risk today, and an example of that is something that happened over in my neck of the woods, over in the chicago area two weeks ago. we were informed about and accused priest had been removed from the parish at saint pius the 10th, and these parishioners let us know that it was determined it was not safe

for the priest to be in this parish. and so he had been quietly transferred to work in the hospital. it's a big, major medical center outside of chicago called central dupage hospital. angie's working as a chaplain there. and when we learned about this, we went to the hospital. we gathered up the evidence and we presented it to the hospital staff, and within hours he was fired from hospital. and then the next day the officials were saying that they had informed the hospital and that he was being monitored, and the hospital of course denied that. but then a reporter asked the spokesperson for the diocese, what are you going to do with him now? >> and his response was, he is going to have to be in

restricted ministry. did you notice he didn't say he is being fired? so we know these things are other innocent people in this room that have tirelessly worked to expose that. we know what happened just two short years ago in the archdiocese of philadelphia. it was exposed in no small part due to the work of professor marci hamilton was sitting in the back from the cardozo school of law, and an attorney in pennsylvania. and her efforts, and many of -- and many others, have helped the grand jurors to see the truth. what did they discover? that not one or two of father corbino's, but actually 37 and accused priests were working in the archdiocese of philadelphia

just two years ago. i suspect that if there were professor marci hamilton's in every diocese, and working with grand jurors in every diocese, we would find the exact same results in the other diocese that were found in philadelphia. we in the survivor movement over the past several years have been feeling that frustration that i think several people talked about, the acknowledgment that the only time the church officials do something even remotely begin to make things right or really try to protect children, they do it because julie. they do it belatedly, and it always comes from external sources pressuring them to do so. so with that frustration, thinking of the enormous amount of pain and suffering that those

of us in this movement have witnessed, and not just from survivors, but from those who did not survive, from the family members of those victims who took their own lives because they couldn't handle the pain. and right now at s.n.a.p. we are close to 400 families who have told us, have contacted us about their loved one who committed suicide after dealing with this sexual violence at the hands of a priest. and with that frustration several years ago we started talking to each other and said, who is the authority in our world that can stop the vatican? and we couldn't figure out who that might be, but we did her research. we explored it and we determined that the place to go is the international criminal court, and what we found in looking up evidence is that the church officials, and i mean the top

ranking vatican officials, are involved in committing crimes against humanity. the evidence is so clear. it's happening all over the globe. and through some very kind people we had the fortune of meeting the people at the center for constitutional rights, and they ride around the corner from here actually. their offices are here but they're making huge impact across the globe. and they heard about our situation and they agreed to take a case to the international criminal court to try to bring that pressure on the vatican. our lead attorney is here with us today, sitting up in the front, and that case continues. and ham and her staff have presented -- ham and her staff have separate a submission to the international criminal court and it contained over 20,000

pages and pieces of evidence of these crimes. and that was in 2011. and then last year, they compiled another submission so that in 2012 another 10,000 or 15,000 documents were submitted. and more is coming in. and all of the people who contribute are making a big difference. and with one goal in mind, and that is to protect children and vulnerable adults. and i want to invite all of you here to join with us in the campaigns that we have embarked on, and to know that there is a place for you, regardless of what your time or constraints are, or what you might be able to do. if you want to help, please know that you were welcome. thank you. [applause]

>> thank you everyone. i don't think it's often that an author gets this kind of support from people who have led a movement that has achieved so much. when the fellow comes around to write a book, he navigates all the different personalities and all the different stories. and we wound up here tonight trying to share with you what is the story of tragedy, but i think is also a story that ends with some hope. because we are actually here talking about it. this is not something that would have been talked about decades ago, and the progress that has been made so far is real and tangible, and it's mostly in how we feel about this institution now. the blind acceptance is gone.

i hear a lot of complaints, what about the good priests? what about the good bishop's? well, the truth is we now judge each of them as we find them. and that's how it should be. the respect should not be for the collar. it should not be for the office, as much as it should be for the man who is the pastor. and i think we may have that one day. we may no these pastors as pastors. i want to express my gratitude for everyone coming tonight. the men and women i met in this pursuit have moved me as no group has ever moved me. i'll never let go of them. we have handed out cards, i think, if folks have questions to ask and we would love to answer them. and i see maybe some of them making their way down here.

and before we finish tonight, there's going to be one announcement made, maybe two, so first we could try with questions and we will see who has won. >> michael, before we take the questions i think it needs to be said but all that have read this book and that all that participated in it, that this is an extraordinary work that when you began this journey, this odyssey, it is evident that you have no idea come you have no idea what you're getting into here. but it was also evident as you travel the globe and interviewed hundreds, if not thousands, of witnesses, hundreds, tens of thousands of documents across the globe that you begin to realize the magnitude, the breadth and the depth of this. and when you did put pen to paper, i guess it is no longer pen, but when you did record

this, for us to now know, in it there is sorrow but great hope, you also give of yourself. and sacrificed with the loving support of your family for those kids. and to you for your wisdom, your grace and your courage in speaking this unspeakable truth and bringing it to us, we are all grateful. >> thank you. [applause] >> here's a very interesting question. you might be able to address this, since you are more recently involved in parishes. there's a question, our priests also leaders in the boy scouts?

and also, this is something that maybe barbara can address but let's try the boy scouts one. >> the boy scouts are very instructive because the boy scouts teach -- either gaza got to as the roman catholic church does. so they keep all the most. i know people laugh at is that the stuff is simply sitting in the office, as long as defense lawyers haven't gotten to it, but they do preserve the documents just like the boy scouts do. there is a phenomenon that if a priest seeks to be a boy scout leader or a girl scout leader, because we do both phenomenons, it's a red flag. and i think any adult knows that. you know, i do not want to be involved in the girl scouts but i got poked in because my daughter wanted to try for a year. you know, you do it for your kids and to get out, you find

reverse and fight it as soon as you can. [laughter] so when you see priests seeking this type of position out, you know it's a red flag. it's an absolute red flag. and hopefully now we've learned and we're going to move forward on that. >> barbara this is i think the question you might address because you come in contact with the media about through s.n.a.p. and david, your colleague does. is the media allowed or willing to address the abuse issue over and over again? >> i think the evidence is in the soup, so speak. i mean, it's in the press frequently, so i would say the answer to that is yes. but let's be clear. in society, like if you think of what's going to make the 10:00 or i guess you it's the 11:00 news, remember, there's 30 minutes of news and 15 minutes

our sports and weather. so we're talking about 50 minutes, they can vote with so many other things. they don't really need to cover this. and if you also think about it, no one feels countable talking about sex and sexuality. we even become more disdainful about it when we're talking about when it entails sex with a child or someone who is an adult who is very vulnerable. and then you are talking about potentially someone who's a cleric. it's like, you know, there's this gross out kind of feeling. so we understand this as a society, it's not a comfortable topic to talk about, and i think that if there's other things to talk about, people will do so. and at the same time, you know, our true gratitude goes out to all the reporters who are willing to investigate and put themselves into this. it is painful but the outcome

means that potentially children are safe. and so there's a good reason to do this. >> i would add there is some press 50. but that they didn't problem on this issue is that -- press fatigue. the machine has persuaded the people at least in america and maybe even worldwide that it was a problem that was, instead of a problem that is. and that is an absolute living lie. the problem is present, and there have been superficial changes but not fundamental changes that got us here. and until there are fundamental changes, the problem is now, and not once. >> can i add one short sentence? what jeff said is absolutely true. it's kind of ironic that a diocese has a public relations from to convince the public that

they're doing what they should be doing which is to be christ we. they have a pr firm. another little factoid for you, the public relations firm that the los angeles charge -- archdiocese has retained to help them kind of cleaner image of is the same one that enron uses. but the media, what jeff said is true, they spent massive amounts of money on public relations trying to convince everyone that this is going to do all we can, we've medical we. we. we. it's behind us now. and i used to get upset about that myself but i don't anymore because i know it's not going to go away. inevitably, something is going to happen. there will be an explosion somewhere, and erection somewhere that would destroy that myth and will be back again and it will be prominent and people will see that it's still a major problem and will continue to be one, as long as the system that causes it to be is still the way it is. >> thanks, tom. here's a question that jeff

relates to this issue a little bit. what do you think will be the result of timothy dolan's deposition? >> well, the deposition of dolan was taken recently, is currently under seal to be released very soon. and the deposition of dolan will reveal a long-standing pattern by him, his predecessor's deposition was taken, and the auxiliary bishop, that demonstrates the same kind of pattern that is, and in place across the country and across the globe, is that he and everyone of his predecessors, his colleagues at the top, are required to make choices every day. and they are required to choose to protect the institution and the brand and the reputation of the hierarchy, what they call the church, and because of that,

that requires him and others like him to lie, to conceal, to cover up, to conceive, to mislead, and to choose to protect their reputation at the peril of the innocent, both now and of the future. >> richard, here's a question for you. can you comment on the expression institutional blackmail? >> yeah. celibacy is not practiced. when i made the statement public in 1990, i got a lot of -- i said at the time no more than 50% of priests are practicing so

cities -- practicing celibacy. in 1993 the church put on an international conference on celibacy. the cardinal who is head of the congregation for the clergy was supposed the question by the bbc reporter, what do you say, cardinal, about these figures that 45-50% of priests at any one time are not practicing celibacy? he said, i have no reason to doubt the accuracy of those figures. those figures are low. here's the way it works. if a priest is having sex with somebody, the priest who publicly is presented as sexually safe, whether that be with a man or a woman, a fellow seminarian or so on, that that

is registered in what i call the cloud of secrecy. comes to confession, comes to telling her buddies, comes to other people knowing. and that is a fund of knowledge that is there, and exist within the church. clerics know about the sexual lives of other clerics, and it's especially good as they move up in the hierarchy. and so that's where the sexual blackmail is. and i've seen this written out in the diocese, that one of the bishops, archbishops, came into place who's going to put the screws on different disciplinary things. he had a group of the priest who got together and said, you know, we know this, this, and this about you, and you put pressure

on us and we're going to do this. i've had the word blackmail use by bishop moreno in tucson, that the priests, marino said look, if you use these was, he said i know, he says you've got to go to trigger he said about the treatment. and decide if you try and force me, i will make public to the arizona press that bishop james rauch is having sexual relations with boys. and the bishop wrote this to the vatican embassy. there is, when you think of the fund of knowledge in the church, it comes through what i call the crime of confession. confession is a good thing for

us all. it can be very good for us to share. i think one of the most, the greatest institutions that exemplifies this are the 12 step movements, where people get up and say look, this is me and this is some of the stuff that i've done. no pretense, no excuses and so on. and they are all one, okay, so you had that mistake, you had that mistake. but in the catholic church that's not too. the priests all coming and they say i am sexually untouched. i am virginal. you know, mind, body, and everything. it's not true. it's a myth. and so because this knowledge is there on a very high level, and i could literally give you more than two dozen cases just off the top of my head where this is, this has been so. so it is the claim that they

have on each of the, i know this about you, i was with you. after, and this is one of those things people put me down for, that's fine. i'll never win this case, but after it went public, i case against cardinal bernard in before the press got up and said, i am 65 years old, and i've always live a chaste and celibate life and you who are brought up catholic and going to school, you know what that means if you would say that. a priest from a plan to flew up to baltimore, for no other reason, i mean, he said, i want you to know that bernadine was sexually active because i've been with him when he was sexually active with seminarians. okay, that's a fact.

nobody in the hierarchy, well, it isn't that they don't believe it. they will slap me down for saying that. but that's part of the truth that is in this cloud, and it is about other cardinals. we know this. i've had five priests from newark tell me about sex with cardinal mccarrick. when i was a seminary professor, students came to me. i had over 500 students in the years i taught at saint mary's pontifical seminary. they call up, i mean call up, a music company and they say, you, i've got a problem. i belong to this diocese and bishop coming you, invites us out to his summer home on the jersey coast. he wants somebody to sleep with. he invites maybe five people, and every night somebody has to

sleep with him. and they say this makes me uncomfortable, you know. okay, i know that. i'm not some savant, but the point is i paid attention since 1960, to what people have had to say about the practice of celibacy. and i will say this tonight. jeff has really made the point, but that mandatory celibacy within the catholic system is part of the root cause of sexual abuse of minors. i know sexual abuse, you know, isn't all strata of society, all incomes and so on, but within the catholic culture, within the society, mandatory celibacy is one of the main causes. why? because of the secret lives,

because of the compromises. and that doesn't make any difference whether the bishop is having a sexual relationship with a woman or a man, or somebody else. that in a sense that truth is there and there will be a certain number of people in that culture and in that population when they have to make or when they feel they have to make a compromise with their sexual urges, will do it with miners. and that's part of the culture. >> we've kept you here a long time, so i have one more question. i want to remind folks that if they can fill out contact information, i know that transform would like to be in touch with anyone who would like to be in touch with them. and so if you have a three by five card and want to leave a comment e-mail address, i know barbara would like to have it. and anyone who liked to make a donation to s.n.a.p., they would

receive our secular blessings for that. i also have just one announcement that will be made at the end of this program. and the last question, jeff, is for you. and it's what can we do now? >> here's the answer. every single one of us can do something today to make sure we protect the kids and their future, and do something to help those that have been wounded. and it is contact your state lawmaker, demand and request in writing and by phone that the statute of limitations be removed when it comes to holding institutions and offenders legally responsible. because it is the statute of

limitations in most every state across the u.s. that the roman catholic bishops have lobbied against reform, and it is that statute of limitation, that public policy that prevents many, if not most of the survivors, access to the courts, access to the truth, access to the documents, and access to the chance to reveal the history of the past so it doesn't repeat the future. and you can, by writing your representative and your senator, and calling your representative and your senator in your district and tell them that child victims act and the statute of limitations must be removed for the sake of those that have been wounded, and as importantly, for the sake