we eliminate the problem just by being able to allow them in this way, which is one more thing that a company does. usually you can't go to bankruptcy if you don't pay your debts. that can be the issue. well, it's very problematic. there are some things are supposed to help. but there is all kinds of issues there. supposedly they would be great supervision and preparation. let me just say that this is a good time to do this. but it is not the point you want to get to. when you get to the point where you want to trigger this, what

it would've done had it involved lehman brothers. .. this is something that we can do a huge amount to avoid and prevent. and you can also hit a system was bloated with subsidies, just about everything that you can think of is good.

>> host: and we have been talking with a professor at the graduate school of business at stanford university and co-author of this new book. you are watching book tv on c-span2. >> now in interview from book tv college series. in "culture war?" morris fiorina argues that americans are far less polarized than the public is led to believe by the media and political pundits. he discussed his book for about 15 minutes at the hoover institution on the campus of stanford university. >> stanford professor morris fiorina is the author of this book. several editions have come out. "culture war?: the myth of a polarized america". professor morris fiorina, are we divided into red and blue camps in this country?

>> guest: it depends upon who you mean by we. if you mean the people who are very active in politics and political campaigns and give money, yes, they are. if you mean we the average american citizen who turns out to vote, the answer is no. >> host: how do you find that? >> guest: we find that through very intensive works on american surveys. and studies, the general social survey is, good commercial surveys light gallop, and what they show is basically the american market today does not look any different than it does during the 1970's. so the changes we're seeing are being driven by the people who are most active in politics. they're much more polarized, their priorities are different. ordinary voters all the vote between alternatives that are

provided. given all the extremists to vote for, that is all they can vote for. >> host: know, you started writing this series or this book in 2006 or seven. >> guest: actually 2003 and. >> host: have you done an updated once the top 12 presidential election? >> guest: no, i have not. 2012 was an election with very little change. can look at the data and concluded that nothing needs to be redressed. >> host: when you looked at some of the issues that we talked about in the state's and we are up here in northern california and silicon valley at stanford. are we in a completely blue area? >> eskimo we are. this area, if you look at a map of california, very deep blue pocket along the coast in major metropolitan areas and then more read in areas of rural south.

a lot of farms. we tend to see more red. >> host: but in silicon valley and so far there red pockets, people here are not the polarized? >> guest: there are people everywhere, manhattan, there are political differences. you will find that what makes it difficult for even people you're normally thinking of those republicans, wealthy people who have stock options eccentric, the californian republican party looks like the texas republican party. everyone jokes that their platform, and that just does not appeal, even to wall street people. they vote regularly for democrats because they basically have no choice. so, i mean, again, it is not really what people are thinking and how they're voting. if they can only vote between

two alternatives just the fact that they continually vote for democrats is not mean that there are a different kind of republican. even ronald reagan, the voting paths may be very different. >> host: and that is because the republican party itself is controlled. >> guest: of four republican, the current chairman realizes that a lot of the base, republican base in california has its roots in that rural areas. it moves with a social conservative. and i guess it's an anomaly, but in california, the recall is the opportunity when the entire electorate was voting. >> host: you have a chart in this book, and i want to ask you if this is still up today when it comes to congress.

congress from the 1960's. you can see the blue and the red you can see overlap. you say that congress has gotten more and more polarized. is that correct? >> guest: that has not changed in the slightest. there are a couple of things going on here. one is a simple change, social and geographic change in the country. the effort -- the communities in the north and south, the sun belt, tremendous growth in the sun belt's. this up becoming more conservative and economic region we are seeing the social movements align with one party or the other. the environmentalist. the democrats, republicans. and these are driven. basically to parties, one continually, what has happened in the u.s. sorting, not polarization. a generation ago, if i remember

lots of conservative democrats and lots of local republicans. well, the senators, from the south you had conservative democrats. whereas now basically they have disappeared in both parties at the highest levels. very few conservatives. and so the party said been driven apart, but the actual number of liberals, conservatives, democrats and republicans has not changed all that much. so people a much better sorted now. and the result is, the basis of the two parties, because they're pretty much the same, democrats are not that different in the base, the same thing for republicans. so politics has become more polarized. it is not because the middle east disappeared. it is not because -- the middle

is basically a draft. >> host: professor morris fiorina, what about hot-button issues, game marriage, and control, abortion. isn't there a clear yes and no? >> guest: we are divided because we -- this is something that is i really appreciated. right now, since obama's election, some of these things we focus on command-and-control, immigration, global warming. very reputable organizations, the poll asked people, what do you think the major priorities, the president and the congress should be in the coming year? and there were 21 options. immigration was a 17 out of 21. gun-control was 18 out of 21. this is one month after. in global warming was 21 at a

21. this is a point made in the book. the priorities a political class are often very different from the perris of the american public. the american public is concerned with bread and butter issues. there jobs, the economy, deficits, health care, the kids' schools, etc. and i am not saying these other issues are not important. and to saying, these are way down on a list of priorities. that is the subject of my second book. it is not the subject in this one. perris of political class, and these things with politics, particularly not higher up. >> host: why is that? >> guest: these things are very important to the political class. we have a democratic party that has been described as liberal. they're is a certain element to that. the republicans, for their part, have some religious right. they come in fact, these issues

are of deep concern to them. and yet not so much for the average american. there has been a pull for years and years asking about the most important issues facing there public. very few are seen where it gay-rights was one that included toward reform. most appear -- most have no idea what tort reform is. usually -- i mean, especially in an area like this if you tell people, the polls say that americans don't really care all that much about a marriage, people just do not believe you. a survey after survey shows that >> host: what the people in oklahoma and northern california, where are they going to agree? and as a nod in california. >> guest: again, we are talking not about people who really act in politics. go pick up people of the oklahoma st., more men streak. take some city of take some

urban area and put them in a room and they start talking in you find out, we are not all that different. they can sort of, you know -- it is that going to be cutting spending. it is going to be both. and less talk about where we can find common ground. on issue after issue you will find that. d'agata certain number of calls from reporters who report that they decide to do one of these comparisons. and they say, well, i could not find it. i talked to the richest person on the block. the best person of the -- best friend of the lowest burst on the block and when you talk about ordinary, reasonable americans as opposed to the ones to watch on tv and try to convince each other how poor they are in their political views to me talk about a country it is still very reasonable and fall of a lot of common sense. >> host: en "culture war?" you have a chart here in of want to ask you, this updated chart

after when you update this book after the 2012. eligible voting age in the u.s. and 04, 202 million. voted, 122 million. people who saw fahrenheit 911 which was what? >> guest: it was a movie. i did not actually see it. it was a huge, you know, splash. >> host: 17-18000000 people. people who listen to up rush limbaugh last week, 15 to 16 million people. daily audience for the o'reilly factor, 3 million. daily audience for fox know it -- fox news, 3 million. less than 1 million carry vote in iowa. democratic turnout for the

caucus in iowa. howard dean is e-mail list. and the number of admitted derek and owners. why you put that chart in there? >> to show how unrepresentative, how small the political class's. by the political class, mean the people who run for office, donate, lead the interest groups and they are the public face of politics in america. there the ones that are on tv, the ones the voter seat. i wanted to make a point of how small that sliver of america is relative to the population. let me give you some statistics from the last election, the republican primary fight which was a reader every week. rick santorum is a national contender. he won in minnesota, colorado, and missouri. the turnout of registered voters was one in 200.

one in 100 in colorado, one in 200 minnesota, and one in seven and 100 in missouri. but the proportion of people actually turning out and voting in these primaries was so small, and yet they are driving the nomination for that process. that is going on all over the country. people actually participating. one of the points i made in that recent article, 57 million have not watched fox news and the same thing for obama and dc. now, people aren't watching them. >> host: is there