to, rusher for quite a while. most prominently on the show called the advocate's. he was the conservative advocate, he was on the debate show and he did extremely well. a lot of people would watch that and say well, we can do that, too. we can be as good as he is. ..

>> i first met her back in in 1995 and then i had come to your kid i was looking around for stories and i decided to do it all in indian journalists who've been in the mainstream business but with all the people who reach the top position in somebody said to be coming there is a reporter you must meet at "the wall street journal." her name is anita raghavan id he described her the bright kid going places. at that time with the securities she did go places because i met her again just a couple of years ago in

that she was appointed the london bureau chief. now with this book i can assure you that she will still go further. so let's start off, you have been wanting to right the whole south asian and diaspora. why did you choose this to tell that story at this point in time? >> i was fascinated by the fact that roger roger of them admitted to seduced some of the brightest of the indian community. the three-time chairman and his protege who had gone to some of the finest schools what is it that he had that managed to cast spell over

india's finest. >> host: don't you think that it was not the brightest moment for the community to tell that story now? >> guest: it was them but i think that through the story you are able to do tell the story of the community because all of the individuals in this case post in 1965 after immigration laws were rigged -- relax and did well in the short period of time. so you have a whole trajectory of the community the highs and lows. >> the other thing that i have been meaning to ask you , i love the title. how did you hone in on that? >> we had committee before

with the one that was my favorite a cave from him when i was in boarding school because it captures the idea of the indian american he leaped caught up with the best in the brightest in the i guess not everybody knew him from boarding schools and that was quickly cast aside. so then we toyed with to king's aunt raj was the king of wealth and the other was a different sort of skiing -- king. he had an ability about him and that no one to give away

any trade secrets but i do think he is selling a book with the title to kings so that should be cast aside and finally we wanted to focus what was this book about? bid we came to the idea of the billionaire is apprentice because at some point in his career, said raj wanted to have what raj rajaratnam had a and it was that. >> host: i thought you could read a little bit from your book to set the stage for the discussion?

>> the passage i will read from is from the tape -- beginning of the book from the start of his life ended tells you about raj but his father who was a freedom fighter who spent many years in jail and as cousin of his told me when i was in calcutta in 2011 that jail was like a house to him. i will start with that. ever since he was born he was elected to his father. this same chiselled line six gave both men a distinguished air that they had a secret world of privilege of intellect or bloodline and in a society with skin color of the defining force a clear advantage that afforded them

the superiority. post was known for the generosity of spirit and in a blinding white over the course of their lives with loyal followers beneath the surface similarities ended. seemingly faded by his birth to live in deference to the imperial power. as a descendant of one of india's oldest bloodlines also one of the chosen ones. he would be trained to perform like a full english man all in front of india is ever, his majesty the king. gupta it rejected intellectual servitude. on the morning of thursday november 5, 1964, the eldest son, the 15 year-old dressed

himself carefully draping his clothes over his body. growing up in a close family after moving to new delhi in the '50s he was accustomed to shouldering the responsibility. him and his older sister were looking over siblings and his parents were too career couples before was in vogue and upon his release from prison he checkup journalism to support him and his family. his revolutionary ties to india helped him rise and after india's independence he was dispatched to the new delhi in addition and was a frequent visitor to the residents of india and it was well known the first prime minister called him by his first name.

so trusted that he would also -- often seek his counsel how to deal with the press and born as a british subject to hard work and sacrifice he became an insider in modern india. he steeled himself and walked into his uncles calcutta home to say farewell. shrouded with heaps of roses and fragrant jasmine his father lay in a coffin. as is customary the body was washed and purified water we need of ride to the hospital and was told his father was dead but as he stood at the entrance to his father's room piece of plastic bags still attached to a bubbling with there in for a moment he thought the doctors made a mistake but the years of incarceration had taken their toll and at 56 gupta

was dead of kidney failure. in the month leading up to his fae accompanying on long walks to listen to stories of his time in the freedom movement and his father was intentionally exposed to tb in prison and cost him one long. the scar on his back came from the skin being split open over and over during one brutal interrogation. in spite of all the father was kind and obliging to everyone and later recall he never spoke ill of anybody and i with thought he had a lot of resentment but it wasn't true. this attitude was most of my father's generation. they were extraordinary with simple living and not thinking ill of other people. this morning in a crowd

gathered his friends and admirers descended like pilgrims on a journey. the donkeys and the men watched as the coffin was placed in front of the red brick house being shattered. in tribute they would march the dovekies away and a clear path for the procession. at 9:00 a.m. closely followed by cars family departed. then they could make out a small shrine and he led the crowd but on the other side of town his former jailer race to catch one final glimpse of the man.

and then went south to the funeral parlor to avail. then he found the right destination. clutching his chest he old lotus through a crowd of hundreds of friends and strangers and made his way beyond the row of bodies to be cremated. at last after pushing his way past his brother and a former prison guard made it to the coffin if he was just completing good in the silence that followed he could place the lotus flowers on the feast of his friend that he helped to build the structure going into the orange flames of a crematorium. overcome with grief he uttered a prayer for his dead friend that there remains a main goal did your ashes a try to atone for my sin if he was not with his own sadness of a premature death he might have heard another voice of gupta

seeking a higher power. who will show me the way of the world? >> host: this has an incredible go to of rich detail and makes the hairs stand on end. how difficult was it is searching? what sort of reaction were you getting? obviously the backdrop was part of a scandal. you has been a dogged supporter but i think a book of the scale and death, what does that feel like? >> it was difficult because so many members of the indian american community had helped me on many, many stories before were quite reluctant about this story

because in a way it cost -- cast such a poor light on the community and the diaspora did not want to draw attention to it. so i had to tap the old sources to convince them well as a shadow on the community and also reflected the of vibrancy of the community today than the fact we have prosecutors in people who beat out justice says professor of american society is a sign of strength and when my parents came and aicher appear in the '70s canadians were

confined to being doctors, engineers and college professors. today we have moviemakers moviemakers, and of course, prosecutors and now works at the sec. >> host: much more diverse so was that a help or a hindrance? what did it bring to this story? >> it was in the vantage i understood some of the dynamics of this story. the communal differences between she -- a and india or roomy khan and who was a hindu married to a muslim and midway if you read through starts to have marital problems and goes over to another indians

friend home because they are a hindu so i think it helps to understand the cultural forces that played a big role in the story and also a challenge because one of the central protagonist of the book is from gupta and here with me some of the community would shine a spotlight on his missteps and how you do that in the way that doesn't open you up to accusations of just taking down a hero? i was cognizant of that as a wrote the book.

>> host: a large part of the book, the portrait of gupta comes across as the upright figure and a very principled. and on that position. what do you think since you have gone into such detail, that was the question everyone wants to know, why? >> a think there were a number of factors the you have to remember that gupta builds up his career in the way he was in scandinavia, chicago, late in life in the late 90's he comes to your canned thrust into the new world it is the big lights bright city phenomenon. he is mingling with hank paulson and and looked at

his sturdy year career and said what do i have to show for it? and it is very interesting, all of the descent hatpins after he steps down from the helm of mackenzie. he becomes close -- closer to raj rajaratnam and in 2004 he gives a taco at columbia i have a watch a tape of the talking and you have a sense trying to figure out what is he going to do or achieve a new high? and it seemed he was really struggling. >> host: the success at

mckinsey was not enough? he was probably in vicious. >> i read the book of course, many times and was up nights it was so gripping it was like a novel and a great shakespearean tragedy. but i got the sense there is the underlying that may not have been the case with a huge wave of sympathy is that correct? >> in the pitcher that we all saw was in a very stoic man he was a dignified

statesman and when i went to calcutta to interview members of the family and luckily i went there before he was indicted, they spoke to me very openly. and said was the affected by his father's death? isn't they said they did not even know that rogers was a olson. in to he came to from new delhi to calcutta but then was just in a daze. >> host: you met almost 200 people while researching

the book but you talked to 200 people then you hear all these different voices. how would you assess? had to arrive on that that reflects reality? you must have got a lot of static as well? >> there was certainly a core of people at mackenzie in thought he had taken the firm in the wrong direction it argued you could have predicted what could have happened. i felt the crime had gotten such press and he had

suffered so much and i think his lawyer at the end of the trial said this is the greek tragedy of epic proportions and so to me what was more interesting was who was the man who could end up in this very bad place? >> host: to be written about extensively i remember meeting him on several occasions even at his home and i thought "this is it" to. this is what success means. so with that parent -- barrier and then the part that is very private.

and then you could penetrate that. you find that difficult? in you use that every source was that difficult? >> going to calcutta was very helpful to understand raj because his cousins spoke freely and to a new the young raj was a precocious child remember a story hall apparently on one family's trip he was on the roof of a car and then had to bribe him with swedes.

ended at 16 he loses his parents. and that struck me. >> but now to this case these things a whole economic meltdown cause the whole case to escalate? t think it was justified? >> but if they were targeted in this case why are evade

can achieve the real culprits of the crisis? probably not too different from a the rest of us. and if it is an easy case to bring in this was an easy case once you had the wiretap of raj rajaratnam but if you have an easy case to bring you will bring the easy case. and is trying to do prosecute with the creator of the mortgaged about go. debacle. but those cecil the shoddy mortgages but how do they

tie them to the investment they? there are too many layers to penetrate this is just an easy case to bring. >> host: to you think the sentence was too harsh for both of them? >> guest: i don't want to comment on the sentence because federal feel it is my role but again, i think a lot of people have remarked to me, don't you think gupta got a severe sentence? in day actually think he was very lucky getting the sentence he did a thing before another judge he would it got more years because in a way the crime he committed was far more

serious than the one that raj rajaratnam committed he was a board member and had a fiduciary responsibility to keep the secrets of the board in the boardroom. >> host: is in europe back home people have a sense of entitlement and most expect him immunity that kind of thing. reducing that sense of entitlement that they bring here as well? are they well aware of the consequences? but this behavior that comes across in your book what made them think they could get away with this? is it part of giving you a community? >> i am not sure it has anything to do with the

indian e. sells because bill clinton also thought he was untouchable. [laughter] i think it is just one of the attributes of power you have the sense of invincibility and he got to that point in life where he would not be affected by this and here i think of a lot of reporting that i did when he first found out he had a problem and his reaction to finding this out was not to be concerned but because he did not think it would come too much. >> host: could you read a little bit to give us a flavor of that time when he

was at the peak of his career? >> guest: okay. this is when gupta was at the height of his power and just before he finds out he may have a problem. and is to -- tuesday november 24, 2009 in gupta was headed to the warehouse for the first state dinner hosted by the obama is the most glamorous couples since the kennedys. says yes step down from mckinsey and 60 he was busier than ever and sat on a handful of corporate boards, procter & gamble and american airlines and goldman sachs and his wife

helped to the retiree way to slow him down he was trying to build a private equity company from scratch and living up of a suitcase he was intent to be a game changer as he had been during his career. dressed in a black suit with a red handkerchief he made his way to the south lawn from the east room that served as a staging syria for the dinner. he ran into friends and chatted with the physician who was wearing the red gem strutted eyeglasses for the gallup. walk-in and then caught up with bobby gentle now the republican governor of louisiana. his given name was different imported back and rich's parents migrated from poon jabs expense before he was born. gentle was typical of the

guest at the white house that night while it was to honor one gasted also served as a barometer how far and fast in immigrate could have been risen. they had bolted to all facets of american society. if gupta wanted to make small talk he could approach jeffrey immelt or the ceo of pepsico. view wanted to bask in the glow of a tv presenter he could chat with katie couric. hollywood was represented both steven spielberg and indian director of the sixth since who were in attendance that night and he knew almost all of the indian and indices and as a legend almost all those as well.

he tried to serve as a mentor to others. when the principal deputy solicitor general was getting pressure from the paris to study medicine gupta verizon to follow his dreams and to it is one of the chief attorneys before the supreme court the highest to which they had risen in american society provide she looked around the room to see the diversity at this time of the ambassador to india in there were ceos and doctors and hotel owners and aspiring office seekers and holders in those who had grown up for but now the ceo of the company. you could feel how life the american dream was in that room. , there was never any question gupta would be invited he walked through different worlds without

ever losing a step. he was friends with all the of the businessmen that accompanied him on his trip in he was friends with the indian conglomerate that viewed him as one of the most treasured exports someone who had reached the pinnacle of corporate life in the united states but never lost his affection for his homeland. he knew fed david rockefeller of india. either from the jaws rob palace hotel he helped to turn his business school into a reality. but his most important relationship that help to secure his relationship was the guest of honor. one of the few executives to get the prime minister on the phone in short notice.

and he was a rising star at mckinsey and then was the architect of those that dismantled raj and ensuring in the entrepreneurial freedom. mckinsey thrived on the restructuring move to play a pivotal role. during his time is ridgy director vacancy opened in the knowledge center in a suburb of new delhi facing researchers with the nba's -- nba's. when the mackenzie knowledge center was a hit he went global can preach to companies eager to cut costs and urge them tond back office work and corporate research, a transcription and financial analysis to india.

clients were thrilled if he was a corporate rock star just as recognizable as jaime dimon is in new york. no small irony that one small dinner companion was labor leaders turned from the second largest union. they spent the most neece -- supporting obama and sat at a table that was decorated with gold and purple and magenta flowers on the green apple tablecloth. over green curry prawns and collard greens stern took the opportunity that some consider responsible for the fading prospects of the american worker impressed him on why his investors did not have more regard for the worker. in his soft-spoken way he insists that they did and they gave a lot of money way

to needy organizations but he has something more radical and profits more evenly distributed to rank-and-file employees. overhearing the debate timothy geithner and senator conrad if anybody told gupta he would someday work or run mackenzie to be invited to the warehouse for dinner they may have had easier time convincing him he would walk on the moon. and it only makes the events that followed all the more unfathomable. >> host: you referred to that particular time when the first call came from goldman sachs and i thought that is his reaction then. and rushing to the airport

and does not really sinking in. it is not the reaction of somebody who has done something wrong but somebody who was innocent. how do you square that reaction with a final conviction? >> i don't think even to this day he really believes he did something wrong. and i think, i swear that reaction might take on his attitude to the general counsel who calls in and says we have heard the feds are investigating for tipping off raj rajaratnam. i chalk it up to americans that if this is a problem, it will go way. i am too powerful to be

touched. just like bill clinton entertaining someone in the oval office in thinking no one will hear of it. >> host: day thank you could read a couple of paragraphs from there? >> it sets the stage for the book if you could locate the passage. sari to spring that are new but i do think that is important for the audience to understand where he started from and how it finally unraveled. >> guest: while i am finding the passage cover the earlier part is when the craig finds out there is a problem and goes to plague

fine but gupta reaction is actually later. his sexual reaction you want to the conversation? that is later. if you'd like to ask me something while i find that? >> host: you talk about a bad light on the community with this whole case. does it fall into question the whole success stories is it going to make it that much harder for the next-generation? he had a magical journey in the united states to emigrate in numbers starting

in the '70s after lyndon johnson reform and in one generation, they have gone on to become top players in this country, today we're at a point there likely to become the federal appeals court judge as you can tell from the opening passage we have moviemakers, politicians and a distinct it does involve some of the other luminaries to cast a shadow on the community for a while. i remember when i started writing this book, i was at

a gala and a prominent indian american that headset a bank came up to me and said why this book? in uk tel on some level his own sense of security was threatened to this episode even though he had nothing to do with that. >> host: it is ironic they mentioned in your after word in the book that there was a clear money trail and a link but that was not the case. but to come to a conclusion because their business partners so therefore he is benefiting but clearly there was a payoff if he sang like

a canary so it seems to somehow unfair they probably will get a second career back home for cody think that is a way to rehabilitate himself back of? >> i think it is very likely. just coming back from india he said it is interesting of the press in the united states was overwhelmingly negative he is something of a hero that has been mistreated by the end just people system. said they very easily could rehabilitate himself, no question.

>> fixes is after the first scene at the white house that i read from. gupta is at philadelphia international airport it he gets a call from the general counsel of goldman sachs he caught up with him at the airport and start of the call of september 11th was to disclosures and tipoff that conversation could be uncomfortable and become adversaries. he told them he like to have one-on-one conversations but decided since the topic was sensitive it was important to have an extra set of ears and hands to record what was

said and monitor his reaction and. it would not be any different but he said something else. we're representing the corporation and not you if he wanted to make sure there was no doubt this is not of privilege conversation it is a matter involved the he was expecting the contents could be handed over to a law-enforcement. what can you tell me about raj rajaratnam and every effort given him information sticking to the script he had worked out before the call. he was clearly taken aback that when he was talking about. walkie-talkie above? and he provided him with information.

and gave himself exactly the way they had grown to expect very calmly he denied he ever gave raj rajaratnam confidential information and said it was preposterous he said at one time they had been business partners on the business partner but they had a falling out and the partnerships came from a soured investments many years back in he poured 10 million into a investment vehicle and then he learned to take the money now but he said he hired accountants and lawyers but then he was arrested by what i help out someone with whom i had a dispute he asked rhetorically? >> host: thank you.

just a couple of questions you have kept one very interesting and juicy part of the story right at the end. i don't want to disclose that because what she has uncovered is not common knowledge at all but i can disclose the title of the chapter is called family secrets. it is pretty explosive secret, gives a different complexion to the background in little timidly happened so i will not disclose the secret because we want you to buy the book. >> guest: we want you to

enjoy the book. [laughter] >> read the book. >> back how did you ever? this is actually common knowledge in in calcutta. nobody -- nobody really road about at a difference to his father who was a journalist. of course, i wrote it that i had it at my disposal the waterfall archives of the british library and i had a sense when this incident have been so i started to look through old newspapers and i found out that this episode was in calcutta in

the 1930's and the newspapers ran daily stories about the incident and it caused great shame and dishonor to gupta family because so many were steeped in education and, academia, and even though it was rumored coming by going to do calcutta i interviewed a number of people to new gupta father that were very old and i've learned of the circumstances of what really happened. i felt it was important to include this story because i think it was a bird in the

family carried for so many years and everybody was aware of it and they talk about it in hushed tones that he did something he never should have done. it it would cast a pall over his siblings paillettes there is of the very honorable with that dishonor >> host: finally, what is the key take away? some would say it puts them in a bad light but how do you view it? ladylike your readers to understand? >> it shows we as a

community have arrived and we're finally large enough in numbers and economically significant and as a result we now have our own crime that will be prosecuted from time to time but if anything it is the celebration of the community strength rather than the weakness. >> host: i seek we can open to the floor with lots of questions. please come forward. briefly introduced herself. >> gave a physician in from new york.

so kind of insiders. [laughter] is the inside trading have been much more often in people getting caught or is this a relatively rare phenomenon? [laughter] i think there are ways insider trading is rampant and probably happen is less often today but i do think it is a common feature of the landscape of wall street and it is inevitable because he had so much information sloshing around in it is true the confidential information and some of it is pure rumor. so yes, i do think it is an endemic problem on wall street.

>> most insightful story. extraordinary and the timing of it, i have a question, could you ever distribute the book into your country? >> yes. i think so that there are plans to do that and some point. we're the world's greatest democracy. [laughter] you can do a lot of things in india. >> this has happened in the past. >> i am perplexed by the fact that he said intriguing

that it is one shred of evidence presented that in spite of all of happening there is not one shred of evidence. you don't think that this study? >> a lot of south asians that is the first case insider-trading has been prosecuted for the last 20 years. but the circumstantial evidence was quite compelling. >> the timing of the phone call? >> the board meetings. >> let's talk about the

goldman sachs and warren buffett investment. >> looks circumstantial but there is no link? >> there is -- that is the right to actually there was a case in 2008 credit suisse they could not at trial showed that many had gone to the baker. there was no benefit. they were trying to an alleged there was a man in pakistan he was kicking it back to the credits we spanker but there was no actual display of its. benefit is a very nebulous term with insider-trading it

doesn't have to be many handover in suitcases with business ties lead to greater business. >> host: that there were no suitcases of cash so this is not as exciting a trial as the previous one. >> simple psychological question with a financial failure because of that he was determined to prove the exact opposite and then all the grief came from there? >> he came from very humble roots and with his father

kim not a jail there is this rea doing this from memory something like 10,000 in debt which is an enormous amount for that time. but again the talk that he gave that columbia he said how his father if anyone asked for the shirt off his back he would give it to them and he said we were very lucky because had it not been for our mother, we would have been starting on the streets when our parents died. so i do think he grew up at a very young age were being the importance of the security that came from

wealth. >> hello. i wanted to ask you, you said that you believe this scandal in these problems will reflect badly upon the south asian community i know "the economist" magazine disagreed with that finding although they founded to be extraordinarily well written, they said that analysis was nonsense. i want to know why you think the actions of two people will reflect badly on 3 million in this country or 1 billion worldwide? if you can answer the question why was it with your investigative journalism did you find why were these two wiretapped if it wasn't a standard practice and a we had ever been prosecuted based on wiretaps, why were these two

raj rajaratnam and gupta wiretapped? and also must ask you, when you talk about the indian diaspora are you including all south asians or just people from india? >> i will answer question number 21st. there were not the only to wiretaps there were a number of others. they even tried to get not a wiretap but in the summer of 2009 to get a former associate stevie colin to incriminate him the he did not take the bay. to question number three, raj was obviously the person that was the catalyst

but i was focused on the indian diaspora because these were individuals who were the best and brightest of the indian community. they went to the established schools, and -- coming and the companies said they were very different from raj and he was a success. and your first question, with the adaptation of my book ran in "the new york times" i read a number of the comments and they found those were more fascinating than the stories

it was stunning to me but there were a number of people who said what you suspect? these are south asians. i do is take it will have an effect on the community i am not saying by the same token i did mention that the case will be in the federal appeals court it is not devastating but it will in the short term, particularly on wall street. he has been confirmed by the senate. >> but to go on from there, but back home with their paws ever have

crossed? would they be friends? >> i personally don't think they would have. look. they were not friends they did not socialize together. rather than go to his 50th birthday party in kenya kenya, this is a marriage of mutual interest for a particular period of time. >> you were there i presume? >> yes.

said you were there for gupta? >> you were not? >> i was there and let me ask you very quickly, the wiretaps in october in the argument is here say but it seems that it was it the u.s. attorney's office and. >> there is no september 24 is but just october 24th to the other one was not a wiretapping was just a phone call. to me it made it difficult. what is your take?

in terms of what you heard? >>, it is a panel of three judges and i think one of those are pro defense was just my reporting and the other judge, that's right. the other judge is for the prosecution. and john newman, yes. but they really looked to him to be the wild card. because he is rigorous and they think they came away disappointed by the questions that he asked. >>.

>> actually worked to be the managing partner there and to knowing a lot of colleagues there the sense of the trail of gupta is mind-boggling. they've sure was the circumstance sandy absolute key was the extent after they've left mckinsey even though they don't exist any more. the second point is the impasse on south asians, a lot of mckinsey consultants with just the chatter across the network is now set up with special scrutiny as part of the indian mafia and it has cast a disparity in shadow on them.

but there simply is that impact on there. [laughter] right here in the second row. >> my question is, if you could speak to the book? >> i do not want to comment on my sources. >> i am also perplexed if you were talking to his family members are cousins in calcutta, did they know the subject of the book. >> they did. they would give you all that information? >> guest: the book is about as other people have said, it is a sympathetic portrayal of him.

said that is what they contributed to. >> one last thing. with the wiretap, this conversation that he had after the of board meeting meeting, is that on tape? >> there was no wiretap but i was is reprieve it -- previous gentleman's question i was trying to say that this is the first case where wiretaps had been used in there have been insider trading cases from the '80s, the '90s, post millennium against caucasians and others and all of that has been brought to circumstantial evidence in the credits we spanker it shows no benefit but just an allegation the man was tipping someone in pakistan

this man was sentenced to eight years in prison based on circumstantial evidence. >> wasn't there one phone call? >> july 29. >> where he says he is complaining that i give him $1 million and that he is paying attention? >> that was a wiretap conversation but that was not part of the charge with the information did not rise to the material of nonpublic >> with the board meeting that is because the.

>> but the other one was not have to. >>. >> with the rise of gupta from the american elite i live to the table contents in a read the excerpts in "the new york times" it looks like it is all about gupta but not the american e. lee to in general or all of those and with folks like that perhaps they will cast a shadow?

>> no. all i was trying to you do was show that gupta was an important member of the community and his journey was to the explosive rise of such a short period of time. sometimes use one character what a community has done in his rise was emblematic. >> i actually think the book spans a lot of time on his rise. we can count pages later. [laughter] >> the title is "the billionaire's apprentice" it is clearly about one person but.

>> i am part of that diaspore of -- diaspora of the '60s i find it takes a tremendous amount of courage and strength for us as the diaspora to be reflected to look back tattersn despite our strings and success av , i think it is important for our growth to recognize some of the things we have not done with good ethics and have not conducted ourselves in the way in which we should. thank you for that. my question related to that that, what is in sight or prospective lawyers to offer to the next generation that is up in coming now applying

to college and looking at their career path? what prospective care to offer? >> they have an advantage that certainly my parents' generation which is the same as raj did not have. they grew up in the united states than they are assimilated and i think they have a better appreciation of the rigidity of the laws and the united states and i think that is why this is a story about south asians but also of two different generations gupta was of one

generation and although born in india, he came here when he was too and he is a different generation and. i think the assimilated indians will be very successful and i don't think they need any advice from me >> hello. i attended the gupta trial last summer it was fascinating to see the whole family whether it was acting or a genuine grief with regret. but i would like a little

more on said tipping point that you brought up early in the conversation where with the columbia speech, he seemed confused of the nextel. how does would teetwo have yet with kravitz with that sophisticated billionaire clever set it at the same time would take a little more money by raj rajaratnam , i just don't understand how raj rajaratnam that instead of 20 to be is that in the class is it agreed that he

could that i never said it -- heard on tape and the words that say he had actually done that? is what i am more interested in is the wiretapping of raj rajaratnam begin in association with terrorism industry -- she long ago? in other words, gupta collateral damage for something else the government was trying to uncover? >> it is certainly felt that

he told me he wrote the letter in 2006 to the state department saying raj rajaratnam is spending it if you have not read the book he was also actually the person that wrote the recommendation to gupta when he applied to harvard business school from m.i.t. and felt that he paved the way for the fed to start looking at raj rajaratnam. i don't think, i think it is that the sausage making is this year. i think there were two parallel investigations

going on right conceding -- competing offices one was insider-trading against raj rajaratnam and the other was the investigation in the eastern district of the terrorism activities. wanted of that insider-trading case with ford. but your first question, i think they saw raj rajaratnam as someone who could help him make up for lost time in terms of wealth creation. he had a wonderful rolodex talking about monetizing the rolodex what did raj rajaratnam need? he needed more money to manage.

so he saw himself as teaming up with him to make that into a of decorative adventure. >> there is that point where you talk about the balance of power and rajrajaratnam one team to get plugged in then he gets the kkr offer he asks raj rajaratnam what do you think if he asks him for his advice. duty that balance of power had shifted and he had the opinion at this stage with the whole thing blew up? >> i think he thought he was from a position of

superiorite had the late contacts in the remarkable rolodex, but by the time you get to that conversation, he is asking his man who his entire life was giving a price to other corporations corporations, he actually worked from the pre-eminence of the vigil services industry and he never succeeded like kkr is if he shed takes the job and it was a stunning turn of events. >> my question is from his

college. he probably graduated the late '60s early '70s. >> 1971. >> he comes from a humble background so how could he afford to go to harvard business school? >> he got a scholarship. >> related question is how did he manage to grow inside mackenzie? the there are not many at that time. was it during the late '80s but not so much with the european market but to go

out to the asian markets. was that simply the best? >> you have to remember the mackenzie was a partnership said he got the job because he was elected by his partners so there was no board appointing him. one reason elected to the top job again there was a generational split the old guard there was a new and up-and-coming guard and he was the perfect candidate. he was thoughtful, outspoken, confr ontational, and i think the new guard gravitated around him and geoffrey skilling who was at mckinsey at the

time people laugh but i had a lot of correspondence with just delaying and he is a great writer in very eloquent and a smart man. he laid out the landscape that mackenzie had during the '80s and '90s and the tensions between these two generations and i think he came on of their successful. >> negative asian, but not in the and. [laughter] -- in the end. could you comment how the reforms of 2003 would have affected many of these events and more importantly the future of those

financial reserve wannabes specifically about the transparency brought about. >> i am not sure basil three but have affected the insider-trading cases to be honest with yto be honest with you. >> we talked a lot about gupta but i'm interested about raj rajaratnam and his motivations and the dynamic of him and his family and also raj rajaratnam who is now facing prosecution, what you think will happen there if you have a comment? >> raj rajaratnam to use his own words would say i am broke. rogue.

in that is what he was. he like to push the envelope were pretty good, he liked to play people. there is an episode in the relationship where at the end of 2006 he has arranged a high interest loan for his friend and they are part of a consortium to buy a bank in south india and the loan is that paid back in time. and $0.83 an e-mail to save the money does not arrive i am canceling all further with the southeast sent many manager there were trying to build. raj had a keener sense of

people, very street smart, he could do circles around the mackenzie men. but in terms of his brother it is interesting to see he takes a very different approach from his brother from his recent indictment of charges of insider trading and it appears he tries to work out a plea was u.s. attorney's office. i suspect he will plead guilty and not cooperate but if he does cooperate you also have to give the prosecutors information about his brothers and there is still one brother that they would be interested to

build the case against. >> host: i know there are lots of hands that we will take one more than at this rate you will virtually disclose the whole book. this is the last question. >> maybe this is just a comment but cover the one comment was i never considered gupta indian. i was interested in the case but a lot of people did not say india and. i am not an indian and i did not discuss that with any indian so maybe is it indian theme? just like my parents are from nigeria i just think nigerians.

[laughter] so if it is that theme of indian in my other comment that i had was come with the stereotypes there domicile, hard-working, i wonder, i don't want to say progress. [laughter] i am really trying not to be funny. [laughter] just an outsider's point of view i wonder but to listen to everybody talk it is a very good stereotype attached to you now here's just one bad case. the last guy that was just

indicted is indian, actually the second. [laughter] >> host: do you have a final comment? are we can just close at this point. anita raghavan will be available to sign copies of the book you're interested to purchase it. thank you so much. [applause] [inaudible conversations]

>> making a transition from journalism to box is exhilarating and completely overwhelming and frightening but wonderful. i made the choice, i have long wanted to work on the book because it gives you the freedom to die if in to a topic and go off on a tangent to have enough time to really explore it fully. next sunday, best-selling author mary roche will take your calls, e-mail's and comments three hours live next sunday noon eastern on booktv on c-span2.