now on book tv deepak and sanjiv discuss the differences between eastern and western medicine. this is about one hour and 15 minutes. [applause] >> thank you very much. before we get started i just want to tell everyone a quick story. as many of you know in the society, you could only come to the society as a guest. we have a golden rule of one time. today speed is going to break his record and we make an exception the amount of people that come out and how great we

were delighted to learn this incredible book that was coming out and to see his other half or as some people would say you're better half. but anyway, we are really delighted to have both of them here. deepak and sanjiv, and also tonight going to impress us all to the incredible fascinating story. but you are going to do is we are going to do about a 45 minute conversation followed by audience questions. there's about 10 feet in the first two rows. so please, feel free to come to the first two rows as there are seats in the first to because we don't want you to stand. so, deepak and sanjiv, please tell us what was it like growing and india, and how did that play into your future for different careers.

>> throwing it in india was an absolutely enchanting experience. we had the most loving parents. we had uncles and aunts and grandparents and each one of them was an amusing story teller. so growing up we participated in all of the ancient rituals. every few weeks our uncles and aunts will arrive in stay with us for several months. our grandmother live with us for many years. hearing stories from them was absolutely intoxicating. it was such a vibrant and colorful experience i cannot ever forget. >> deepak, what role did growing up in india play on your future career? >> we grew up with stories mostly from spiritual literature

and the mythological literature. and was many years later that i realized that every one here had a story. standing on the streets years ago there was a lot traffic on the streets, it was crowded even 2,500 years ago. and [inaudible] to really clear up the traffic and explain life to me and that points to the triet passing by at that moment karma, memory and desire of this is the experiences that we are taught. we tell the story and live the

story. so we were fortunate as you said, to live in a house full of stories. and when we became doctors, we realize every person that comes to see us comes to see us because they have a story. that was the tradition that we grew up and heard stories from our families but also from our parents. and also, from my father. his experiences with his patients who were his best teachers that we learned later and there was the same for us also. >> yes. we will pass along the microphone. i know some people are having difficulties so you'll be able to hear the microphone. three more seats for anybody that is standing. there are more seats in the back. >> and you know all the stories had a lesson. but that in stilled was the core values of growing up.

we now espoused and hopefully passed on to our own kids and grandchildren. >> you're father was an incredible individual. one of the most famous doctors in india. what do you think that he had for both of the future earnings? >> i have a chapter in the book called blind for a day and it is a true story. we were studying in st. columbus high school. i had an irish accent. [laughter] 45 minutes later i am blind and i cannot see. he is next to me and i said i can't see.

he was going to poke my eye and i didn't blink. so he knew for sure that i was blind and he started crying. [inaudible] suddenly without forewarning. >> we were staying with our fathers and younger brother. it was done by the doctors including ophthalmologists and they had no idea what was going on. we were using the term hysterical blindness. i was a 12 year old kid that was a great athlete and student and there was no reason for me to fake it. >> so finally they got ahold of my father that was 300 miles away in a military jeep on a field trip. and this is the art of medicine.

you start with history taken. he said tell me everything that has happened in the last few months. he's been fine, he's been perfectly healthy. now tell me everything. did he have any injuries, and he knew madison? sure enough, a laceration and a week earlier i yet received stitches. so he brought the antibodies and they looked and the answer was yes they got antibiotics and they got a tetanus shot they said what kind so this is 1961. the answer was antitetanus. and the father was a cardiologist a specialist in heart disease but brilliant who knew everything in medicine. he said to the doctors he is having a reaction to the serum

they give massive doses. so they did that and they would start seeing gray and i could finally see deepak. [laughter] it was an amazing experience and that is when i decided to become a father, become a doctor like our father. i told this story to the professors at the harvard medical school at the famous and for marie institute and they were absolutely bit dazzled. my god, unbelievable. such a rare reaction. >> here is another story. when he was in england we were sitting with our uncle and i was

four commesso sanjiv was probably three and a half. he became a member of the college of physicians, and in those days more e-mails and letters, but we got a telegram from england. so my grandfather and his father took us both out i still remember the movie. i don't remember if you do. [laughter] >> and then we went to a carnival and he took us out for dinner. then in the middle of the night, we were woken up to the women crying. my grandmother had a heart attack that evening. so, the next day they took him to the commission ground and he was committed.

we didn't go. and the same one that he is talking about he said what is a human being one day he is taking the children out to see a movie in a carnival and the next day he comes back as a bunch of ashes and able of glass. they disappeared completely. his skin started peeling like a snake kills this can be and so he had stores everywhere. they had lots of doctors and nobody could make a diagnosis. until my father was informed in

england and remember it took awhile to get the information coming and he made a diagnosis from england. he said he was feeling vulnerable. and so he was feeling insecure about what happened to the and then he actually was going to stay there longer but he didn't to be if he took a boat and then two weeks later he arrived in bombay. in hindsight i'm thinking about this and my obsession with the meaning of that. >> raleigh and. you have a fascinating story and i was hoping you could share it with all of us and also the connection of how that really helped start this lifelong bond

between both of you. >> those of you that are sitting in the front. or if you've met him before, you will realize and appreciate that he had a dimple in his chin. with great pride, i want to tell you that i am responsible for that. [laughter] so i was about nine years of age and speed was 11. i was a good shot and then one of our and goals gave him the gift of a bb gun as a birthday present. so i ran outside the front yard and i took a can of cherry blossom shoe polish and ipod up there and i was going back and knocking at. he stands next to me and he says go ahead, shoot. what are you saying? i have a gun. he said remember the story of

william? go ahead. i am telling you to shoot. so, i was, i shot, it missed the can and hit him. [laughter] said he said, you know what, we have to go home. mom is there and our grandmother was there staying with us and says i am going to say that i tracked on the piece of barbed wire and a nicked me. deepak, that is a lie. he said listen, mauney has been telling us the story of an ancient and epic text and there is the incarnation of god and his younger brother. you have to listen to everything i say. so we go home and my mother comes out and says what happened? there is a piece of barbwire,

and that might they would come home at 9:00 at night in the hospital teaching and they would be grateful to him for dinner so they offered him some dinner and said what happened to deepak? he tripped on a bar and wire. two days later there is launch and my grandmother acknowledges the father and says we have a dr. mackall the way from india to see you and you haven't made the diagnosis. there is probably a piece of rusty barbed wire in their. so off he goes in the morning for an x-ray. [laughter] every two minutes i go in and mom she said the you are right about this. less than she said that, the phone rang and my father was on the phone and he said guess

what, you're father -- he is going to extract it. so that's why he has that dimple in his chin. >> he is a good shot. if he missed a little bit i wouldn't be here to share the story with you. >> moving forward in time when did you arrive in the u.s. coming and was it a challenge or a benefit to the immigrants? >> i came to years before sanjiv and at that time the vietnam war was coming to an end. before watergate a lot of you wouldn't remember that. there was a shortage of physicians in this country. we had to go outside of india to take the event to come here

because india had banned. and furthermore you couldn't leave the country with more than $8 for the exchange regulation. so we had an uncle in the navy in england up that time who gave me a gift of $100, $908 which if you are from india is a very of seditious number. and so i thought we have to do something really. i went to paris and i spent my 108. when i arrived here in new york, i had nothing.

in those days there were no cell phones and you had to put money -- somebody told me you can make a collect call. it was so desperate, there was such a shortage rising over manhattan in the helicopter looking at the skyline and just being wonder struck i was told by the nurse that was in charge that it was granted the -- i was going to be jet lag and so on. 20 minutes later she called me on the phone and she said

dr. chopra, we have an expiration. and i had no idea what that word meant. but of course i said you bet. i will be there. [laughter] and bounded down the stairs. she showed me to the room where there was a dead person, lots of machines, no people. in india you see only people and no machines. so, we looked at her and made my first diagnosis. i said he is dead. [laughter] i told you we had an expiration. and now i knew what the waiting meant. i said that if he's dead, white you need a doctor. she looked at him and she said pronounced him. this is kind of a bizarre statement for me. ..

and he she said maybe he wants to do -- [laughter] so anyway. talk about culture shock. but six months later i was totally at home. [laughter] >> what was your first experience? >> so we came, my wife is also a

physician. we were class mates at the same medical school, the indian institute of medical sciences. very competitive medical school. 10,000 people would sit for an entrance exam and they would whittle it down to 19. have and interview and five were collected. i was -- my wife was first. she's a pediatrician and brilliant out of ten people. i was first, i was first on the waiting list. [laughter] but think about it. that's 26th out of all of india. so we had deepak had been in the state for two years, we heard stories and occasionally we would call him. he decided to go boston first before going new jersey the same hospital where deepak got his

internship. we stayed with him and his wife for several days. we had less culture shock. for me, one of the less interesting things that happened on day one of the internship. i decided i wanted to be a gastrologist. and the person giving the -- he was located in new jersey. so he's about to give the talk on the diseases, and there's a medical student from rutgers, he's sitting in the front row and the feet propped up in the air. that would have been sack religious in india. the shoes were facing the professor. we would say yes, sir, no , sir, good morning, sir. he gives a bril i brilliant talk. the medical student raises his

hands and says i have a question. so he said, sure, and so he asked a question and the doctor gave a brilliant answer and the student got a quiztive look on the face and he said i don't buy that. i said, wow, what an amazing country you can disagree with a professor. we would never conceive or think about doing something like that. so that, to me, was the first sort of culture shock. the other was we were told as interns that when you leave the hospital, you're not on call. call the hospital operator, call the operator and tell them him or her you are leaving the hospital. that you're signed out to whoever was on call. the second day of the internship, one of the other doctors happened to be from india, said can i have a dime? i said, sure. so i give him a dime and i see

him go to the pay phone and calling the new jersey bell operator. doctor, this is doctor raj, i'm leaving the hospital. hen he hung up. [laughter] >> that's brilliant. [laughter] >> deepak, how did you manage to basically educate a population, help change conservative western medicine to an equally important but different way to address some of the same issues the most important and most single handedly create the mind and body medicine. you are one of the createst contributors to it. you came to the states in '70s. and -- [inaudible] and you just did not stop with your persistence, and you basically changed the belief of what medicine was viewed in the states. how? >> that was in hindsight, okay.

so i specialized in gastro and end endocrine. i was -- the president of the society at that time, and a neuro end crinology who is the president of the society of america. and he was just like sanjay said brilliant. he was absolutely brilliant, and he was identifying hormones that we didn't know too much about at that time. hormones in the hype hyperthalamus like growth factor, it. i had a colleague at the time, she later went to become the

chief of brain chemistry. she's now at georgetown. she identified something called -- [inaudible] her boss for identifying neuro chemicals. and one day candace said to me, the thing we are looking at, there was a new technique. the doctor, who was a va physician had actually won the nobel prize for discovering this technique. so all we did as fellows and resident was keep measuring the chemical. one day she said to me these are the molecule of emotion. so i don't know if it was a best seller called the molecule of emotion. i wrote the forward to it. it was a huge book. nobody had used the term

molecules of emotion. so that was a little bit of insight that whatever happens in the mind is registered in the brain. you can't have a mental event without a brain representation. how could you? after the brain would -- the event. and the brain representation is in the form of electrochemical event. there's nothing that happens in the brain that is not resisted in the body. in fact what we have found that the chemicals neuro. tight and in the stomach. so, you know, suddenly the expression i have a gut feeling made sense. and the that was responding to molecule of emotion. sanjay will tell you the gut makes the same chemicals the brain does. the same neurochemistry. so this was the scientific background. okay the body's information.

and the information is mentored. okay it's from consciousness. it's a different story what consciouses. as a physician, any physician will tell you, you can can have two patients who get the same treatment, who see the same doctor, have the same illness, and they are different outcomes. and our prognosis, what we call pronothing sis is a -- people on this side and people on this side, and you can accurately make a diagnoses. you can never accurately make a prognosis. it's like saying the temperature today in new york is 62, because the atmosphere in new york is 62. it doesn't make sense. saying your income is $1 10,000 because you come from manhattan and the average income doesn't tell me anything about you. i was thinking to myself, why do patients respond unpredictably?

even though we can statistically get to some idea. for the individual you have just like with the individual particle you cannot predict whether pop in and out of the quantum vacuum. in fact, no individual event in the universe has a cost. this i learned later. it was all scientifically going on, i started to write the experiences of my patients, nobody would accept that in american journal. i started to write them in a popular book, nobody would accept that. so this is, you know, one of the strange things. i read an ad in "the new york times," but a vanity publisher called "vanity press." or vantage press. i paid $5,000 got 100 books published myself with the exeesh of my patients. it's called "creating health, the mind, body, connection."

nobody had used that expression. mind body expression. somebody convinced the harvard group put in their window. next thing i get an call from an agent and said why don't you have a publisher? i said i tried. she said let me get you one. it is the same publisher of today's book. next thing i get an call from an aght in new york and jacky 0 nas us is, of all the people, and said we want to get you a publish for new york publisherrer. the rest what i found was i could read the case for the public. i couldn't make a case for my own profession. and that's started in a sense the movement. [inaudible] this is incredible. [inaudible] how children -- [inaudible] >> that's a great question.

i have to sort of reflect on it. i think it's the core values that when instilled in us by our parents and grandparents. and we were told, you know, to be daring, to not to worry about failure. that every -- the great success. one of my favorite quotes is from -- [inaudible] great danish policy for and he once said, "to dare is to lose one's footing momentarily. not to dare is to lose one self ." a beautiful quote. i think deepak was being modest when he started to talk about how he lawrvelged in to this. i thought it was very gut sincerity and courageous when he embraced our medicine, the mind body connection. he has a thriving practice in boston.

there are medical student who are new england medical center. one day he reads a book, anthony campbell -- joseph campbell. no, it was anthony. joseph campbell is the other guy. yeah. follow your -- [inaudible conversations] that's joseph campbell. he writes another book by britisher anthony campbell. >> okay. >> "seven states of consciousness" and the back cover there was, you know, if you are more interested about medication, call this number. he went and learned meditation with his wife. he dime massachusetts, told my wife and me how he was met at a timing for a month was the most powerful and life changing event. that occurred to me, i said to him, good for you. [laughter] i wasn't interested. i had this concept of chanting. and my wife, a pediatrician, and

absolute loy brilliant went and learned it. i noticed amazing changes in her. i was holed up in a month and i said to the teacher, i said i have three concern about learning meditation. the first is i'm in a position as associate chief of medicine at the medical center to occasionally reprimand the medical students and staff and junior colleagues. i don't want to become mellow. number two, i'm playing in a tennis tournament and i'm in the finals. i'm very competitive. and i don't want to be just a pollack every passing shot my opponent has. number three, i enjoy -- [inaudible] i don't want to give that up. [laughter] he said, listen, in term of the scotch, most people start to drink less. in term of the tennis, i'll be back and comes back with a pamphlet called the program in

athletics. excellent action. testimonials by olympics diving champions. i said that's good, but will i win? he said i can't guarantee that. but if you lose you won't feel that bad. [laughter] okay what about the brilliant people at harvard medical school? he said you'll be more assertive but from a silent level. and so i learned meditation was the most powerful thing i have done. now i tell my colleagues and medical students and house staff i was interviewed in the "boston globe" giving pieces of advice at the end of the year. i talked about meditation. and the best thing, i think, is saying it's -- you should met at a time one data. if you don't have time to do that, you should met at a time twice a day. [laughter] >> as in the -- i should say, you know, it's not really clear what happens.

there are so many circumstances that stories true. the story i said is true. but also at the certain point, what happened as i was in the practice with other -- physicians, cardiologist, et. cetera. i started to notice that there were -- about being my colleagued. i readed that, at that time, an assistant professor at the bu medical school. get the feeling they would -- [inaudible] i should leave before they fire me. and i don't want to embellish. at that time, i met another friend of mine that long since passed. he invited me to california, and i left. so, you know, these are thing in hindsight something was going on i was very restless and responded. >> just a comment about that.

back then it used to be called alternative medicine. it's as though you took western medicine or there was this alternative thing you could to help yourself as a patient. and now even at harvard medical school, we have complimentary medicine, integrated medicine. deepak comes and gives a talk every year, and of course i direct with colleague of mine, martin who is at the diabetes certainly. tbel of years ago, the chairman of medicine at the medical center where i have the clinical appointment said we should invite your brother to give a keynote and see if he could talk about spiritualty and medicine and healing. i said, i wouldn't feel comfortable with that. you can invite him. he invited him. deepak has been coming for the last ten or twelve years.

and doing a suggestion about two, two and a half hours of healing. more recently super -- -- i sit in the front row on the side very proud of my brother. my colleague, like a younger brother to me, introduces deepak. >> and taking that further, when do you think outside harvard across the united and across the world, whether do you think mind body medicine will be on equal standing and fully accepted universally? more and more people, most of the people here are real strong -- strongly attracted to mind body medicine. whether did you think it will get the respect it deserves. it's effecting so many people so positively. when does it event to the curriculum. you mentioned harvard how about the other universities? >> we are going to have a different take on this.

let deepak go first. >> so thing to be accepted, there has to be evidence, and there has to be documentation. right. right now on the research, the main interest is in cellar biology, and measuring activity and what we know the scientists and the -- we're doing a book on super genes. it turn out only 5% of the genes are fully. the rest respond to the lifestyle. okay. which means everything from sleep to diet to exercise to stress personal relationships, social interaction, environment, everything that is other than the gene. okay. that is brand new information. -- [inaudible] as you get a scientific paradigm, then there will be clinical studies. right now we're doing study with the -- looking at the genome, the

recent study from harvard looking at the genome. but all of that happening right now. the thing that people are realizing that your body is not a noun. it's a verb. so when we look at the molecule, it's like taking my photograph and saying that's deepak. the body is an activity. when you look at something, you freeze the activity and you call it a molecule. you can't stop the activity. so this kind of insight is going influence the way research is done. it's going influence the way we do clinical studies. and the clinical studies, you know, are double blind studies. there's a problem there because, you know, there's always a doctor-patient interaction no matter how double blind you are. you can't really measure that. there are compounding factors. the fact that our center we have 25 credit for anyone who takes a

mind body training at our center. given by the american medical association. students are going through the center. and almost every hospital in the u.s. has department of integrated management. so it's come a long way. >> what needs to happen from your perspective? >> it's actually happening at harvard medical school. i'm very humbled and privileged to serve as the faculty dean for continuing medical education at harvard medical school. i personally direct twelve post graduate. under the jurisdiction of the -- department of continuing education we have 275 postgraduate courses, distance learning, 75,000 people, 100 online. and we reach out to 90,000 physicians and health allied health professionals throughout the world. a couple of years ago, we a spond meditation and psychotherapy. and the ski note speaker was --

keynote speaker was dalai lama. he did a -- on wisdom and the a tree you session on compassion. it was absolutely breathtakingly beautiful. as part of the faculty in addition to harvard medical school we had richard davidson, and he's considered one of the top fifty neuro scientists in the world. and talk about humility. sometimes somebody would ask a question, and he would say i don't know the answer to that. please ask my guru, richard davidson. richard davidson has done studies but this is true -- deepak mentioned and they have done studies at harvard. not only people learn meditation have the subjective experience of feeling happy, fulfilled, creative better relationship. but using anatomical changes in the brain. you can see them on c.a.t scan. you do functional mri and you

can see changes in different part of the brain. so that's happening. that's the concept of neurolastty. we is a physician, a brilliant professional of neurologies at harvard medical school. he talks about neurolastistty. he talks about neuro biology of leadership. when you have type, go to wikipedia. if you haven't heard the neuron. read about it. one of the most fascinating syndromes in medicine is -- syndrome. somebody had an amputation about the knee on the right side, and they experience pain. in that void, in the missing limb. and he'll study that -- he did. and he's done research in this field. so somebody experiencing phantom limb syndrome, next to him a

stranger is sitting and massaging his right leg. and the neurons in this patient would phantom limb syndrome fire and he gets relief from the pain. it's absolutely uncanny. so, you know, western medicine and the technology looking at c.a.t scan, functional mri is catching up with the subjective experience that people have had for thousand of years. one of my favorite things is the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. so that the fact we don't have these double blind randomized control ironclad studies doesn't mean that it's not true. it will happen, it may take years for the research to catch up. >> ladies and gentlemen, what we're going do since there's a lot of people standing. i want to give the people that are standing the opportunity to ask questions, and since we're

being filmed by c-span and broadcasting, if yo can wait until a mike gets to you. so people on television, untiles of people, can hear. again, i want to start with people that are standing. we want to give as many of the people as possible a chance. and also, i want to, again, thank just one dear friend and somebody one my favorite people in the industry for making this event happen. that's maggie of amazon. and doing a great job of the incredible book that everybody here in the audience has. [applause] can we get something from the restrictive view or standing up in the back. please raise your hand if you have a question -- yes, again, you. right there. please wait for the mic. [inaudible] [inaudible]

[inaudible] you call it limit i are. >> right. >> as opposed to alternative. >> alternative. >> have any of the colleagues ever have viewed as western medicine being climate try to mind body medicine? you were just talking -- >> well,, yeah. >> about the technology used fondly. and using the tk, the technology is catching up what has been done for thousand of years and

treated people for a long time. >> right. so -- but let make me -- let me make a clear distinction here. i'm the beneficiary of the right total hip. i had daily knock tarnal, and knock tarnal pain. i would think i had cancer to the bone if i didn't know better. ..

i had a patient who required 100 units of blood and two years later ran the boston marathon. so it has a role in preventive medicine. how did we prevent? there is in my mind a certain limit -- [laughter] i think deepak can handle this situation. i had all trust topic me surgery and out of the blue suddenly my knee was swollen and i had

canceled the gulf of i was going to play that weekend. a beautiful spring day in boston and then i need a friend and she says you mentioned that you got relief from your back pain. it was really hurting and was swollen. i got acupuncture and then she got out of the car in the parking lot in the country club and kicked her into the air. so the next day friday at 4 o'clock i called the acupuncturist early in the morning. i went to see her and she did the acupuncture and i got up and you can compare one to the other and suddenly the swelling is gone. i couldn't believe it. i don't understand what happened. my wife was not there so i called her on her cell phone and she was going to come home to hours later.

i went to the leader of the night. so i benefited from acupuncture. >> i benefited from practice and don't think many medications and no surgery. i agree with much of sanjiv with what he said. she asked a specific question about how medicine is practiced. from harvard medical school which is the gold standard in many other places like that. but there are some statistics. [laughter] here are some statistics and you can look them up. i didn't make these up. between 36 to 40% of patients suffer from diseases which means disease that has been a result of medical treatment.

80% of the pharmaceuticals or of a marginal benefit which means if you don't use them it would make a difference in the natural history of disease accept some side effects and money next time you watch television, it starts with sexual and buttons and then it ends with death. [laughter] total panama. it is stable and it doesn't prolong life in more than 2% of people but it's the most the second most common procedure is angioplasty. it doesn't prolong life for more than 3% of people. these are alarming statistics

and it's been done everywhere. back surgery, 98% is useless. hysterectomy, 95% is useless. so we are talking about huge amounts of money on procedures. my father and our father would make a diagnosis with precision. if you go to the emergency room and don't walk out with a cat scan you are lucky because nobody has the time to do it so we have a crisis. what we call health reform and not health reform. has nothing to do with health care. none of this was the end of life care. nobody was allowed to die in the house. i said i'm not going to die in the hospital. i'm not going to have any of these procedures.

i've been in the community hospitals doing the same standards don't apply to the and doctors at something called -- which is a little minor aberration and electrolytes which if you didn't correct it would cause this and the patient would die but to keep collecting and even though what is there it has no life there so a lot of what we call the elon vision of survival is of suffering. for the patient come for the relative the only people that make money or the medical providers. this has been a huge problem. i have discussed this with politicians and i even brought it up to our president. but we have a system -- we have a system and this again is nothing to do with the growth sanjiv practices. we have a system for every

congressman. the only business they are either medical, industrial complex lobbyists. where do we think of our country makes money? does it apply to afghanistan coming you go to do by and we have huge problems when the incentives for treatment becomes money and collapsing of strength. if you go to the baker what is he going to sell you, bread. how do you think a team of therapists make money? for every chemotherapy treatment that they get and i saying that you shouldn't have chemotherapy? i'm not saying that that that is the question. i guess everyone here to be a difficult patient. question your doctor's coming

get the statistics come and go to google and get the information and you will know more than the average medical provider. [applause] >> but i would say not only practiced the question the medical practitioner and also question the practitioner and the herbalist. they will die within a few days from liver failure. if you have long problems, sevier problems you can be on a ventilator. if you have acute liver failure, you better pray you get a transplant and every single year

it is published in the literature herbs, part of nature , kill people, acute liver failure. my patience with a variety of disorders, by the way, when people -- 1 billion people in the world have a chronic liver disease. and i ask every single patient about what are you doing and the majority of them are taking things that they've never told any of their physician. they are taking herbs. then the list goes on and on dr. chopra, what do you think of that? how much are you paying? >> $342 a pocket out of each month. i said i call that a wallet biobsy. just because it is natural doesn't mean it's safe. this is why speed and i will not

be there tonight -- they sent us off of the show. but they are part of nature. it's part of nature. so we have to apply the same standards as we should to the western medicine that we do. >> it's good that you ask this question because this is a discussion that we have the ability to be informed. you should be informed of everything. >> can we get somebody on the stand? does anybody have a question? we need a strong supporter. anybody? can we get somebody in the back? the lady right behind the camera man. no, right there. >> this is for speed.

-- deepak. >> this is a good question because many years ago, i don't know if i want to go into the whole story but i was ambushed and i hope he watches the program, by richard dawkins, the atheist of our times and he came as a reporter for channel four. and i was very happy with the conversation that we had then i was in a movie that he produced called enemies of science and reason. if you want to check it out, go to youtube but there are a million people that watched that. the reason he ridiculed me is i felt a shift in consciousness causing a shift in biology which

is an important statement. it's different in the dream state and its different now than i would be when you were sleeping and it's different when you are anxious and angry. it's different when you feel peace, love, joy. there is a tradition of states of consciousness with which i do not have time to go into right now. new nettie consciousness. so what they do, the shift your consciousness and when you shift your consciousness there is a lot of good research coming up. one of the things i used to wonder why the way what is healing and why do certain people in fact why do we say

that it's only good for preventing madison it's not true. you can reverse heart disease, kill asthma coming of the reversal of many inflammatory disorders including the published studies on all of this. i used to wonder what is happening biologically. finally i realized what is common with all of these people is a return to healing and all of the same thing. but they have biologically what we learn when we go to medical school, the first lesson is that we learn, one is inflammation and the second is homeostasis. they are both protecting us. if you have an exaggerated inflammatory response, then you have although immune allergies and in fact exaggerated

inflammation is a predisposing factor for the most disease and now there's a movement to treat inflammation first and chemotherapy second because it is a chronic disease. so exaggerated information is not good. but what is the healing response? it is the response to homeostasis. the status of dynamic change and it occurred to me that these people that are getting better in respect of of what the treatment was, deep hypnosis, massage, feedback or what i now like to call by overregulation they were going to the baseline state of homeostasis which is

the healing response. so we go to medical school because when we enter the specialization this is a gastroenterologist, the fundamental state of our being, not feeling or thinking that being, we are human beings, not humans herbs. it's designed ask yourself prepare and regulation and that is what happened. it's a long answer but i feel compelled to give it to the [applause] >> we can take two more questions. can we get somebody in the back? there is one lady all the way in the back weaving at me -- okay we will take three questions. she's really dedicated. >> my question was both of you

have been so successful in life in your own ways that you each talked about being willing to take on risk. so sometimes we have also have failures along the way. and i wonder what some of your most impact of your lawyers were and how they informed your path to success. >> i will let deepak go first. [laughter] >> i mentioned in the book a chapter where i blocked out of a fellowship that is very prestigious because i was asked a question that i didn't know the answer to. the question was how many milligrams did the rats get. and i said to my supervisor professor i think it was 2.3 milligrams but i'm not sure.

let me look it up to. he said you should have that information in your head buy now. so, i took my briefcase and i dumped all the papers out and i said you have it on your head and now. and i walked out of my fellowship and he called my wife and he said your husband blew his career. he's finished. my wife was pregnant with our son and we were renting $600 a month on the fellowship. i actually again read in the "boston globe" they're looking for an emergency room physician in massachusetts and i said i have no experience that i have a medical license and i need the money and he said i will train you. so for one year i worked in an emergency room moon lighting

basically. and i felt like a failure because i'm responsible for my wife and my children and the fact that i join the prestigious fellowship and walked out of debt and it took me a long time to realize that as long as i left for the approval of my peers and my superiors i wouldn't be able to do what they said, there to dream. savitt took me awhile to realize that if i had wanted to explore what i thought was intuitively something that needed to be explored, now we talk about this. i said i have to be in dependent it took me awhile to recover from that. was a whole year. i remember one day i met my goals in life for the family and social and next to professional

i read a bunch of the goals and one of them as i want to be in author and have a book on this. so i stopped playing tennis which was my passion back then. there was no such thing as a google. i had to go to the library that is the largest collection of medical books and the world to dig up the original articles published in 1970 and then i wrote an introduction and table of contents and three chapters and then i send it to five different publishers. four of them said thank you very much but we are not interested. we already have a major textbook. the fifth one from new york said i really like your writing style. i would like to come to boston and take you out for lunch.

so we sit down and as i am sitting down he says we are not interested in your book. i said you're kidding you came away from new york to take me out to lunch and tell me that? he said but we'd like your writing style and we would like you to write or edit a book on castro and -- tester lane ten stelle -- gastrointestinal. so one of my uncles had said this, and diversity is the feet of great success. and i said to myself i am going to get to books. i'm still going to get my book published by a good publisher and editor in the second textbook and then i invite a colleague of mine who used to be at the general and i said we will edit the book and invited

the entire boston mafia g.i.. and we did that. how did did feel with 982,999 times? said i discovered the ways in which it doesn't work. and it was 57 this country burned down. his factory burned down and a lot of people he commensurate with said why are you doing that? all of my mistakes have been built and malae can start a new. so it is the attitude. i think we were very fortunate that those values were instilled in us when we were young. >> first the lady behind you and then you. thanks.

>> patients in the community are suffering greatly and we were wondering if perhaps we could get help because we can't reach homeostasis with all of the alternative medicine that we tried and the western medicine that we have tried we are not getting well. >> i am not the right person to be answering your question. my specialty is liver disease. i think this question would be best asked of a rheumatologist. if there is a rheumatologist who also embraces integrated medicine and the mind and body connection. but maybe deepak can help. >> there are integrated on call putschists and rheumatologists, integrated specialists.

the doctor has a list of all of these people if you get on the web site. >> last the lady that is right in front. >> ibm in a group meditation -- >> can you repeat? >> i said i know i'm asking a lot but would you leave us in a group meditation? [applause] >> i want to ask a question, did you meditate this morning on your own? >> [inaudible] >> there is a wonderful saying you should meditate once a day coming you should meditate twice a day. maybe deepak will lead the group.

>> if you are not already familiar with how many people are familiar with the challenge? please raise your hand. okay. so that is about 15% of the people in this room. every three months the chopra center along with oprah we offer a meditation on line and of the last time, 700,000 people meditated together for three weeks. i was traveling the world in moscow and caribbean and latin america and said how many people have heard of the 21 d challenge 15% of people raise their hand, just like this. so, i just wanted to know, if you go to the chopra choprameditationsenator.com free of charge you have the largest experiment of medication that has ever been done in the history of civilization.

there has never been [applause] i do not want to miss the opportunity of telling you this. you can register now for free. that is the kind of movement that we need to start the critical mass of awareness. supply will lead this for two minutes and then -- >> after medication is done everyone needs to remain seated for two minutes because sanjiv and deepak have a media appearance and the need to make it out. so again, please just remain seated. please begin. >> okay there are many kinds of reflective medication, transcending meditation. i will start you on something that you just start today with it your day will go a little better. okay?

so, close your eyes. put your awareness in your breath and let your mind settle into your breath. don't try to manipulate it, just let your mind settle into your breath. now bring your awareness in to your heart and ask yourself who am i. and allow any sensations, images, feeling and thought to surface. question? who am i?

and now ask yourself the question what do i want. allow any feeling and fought to spontaneously to arrive. what do i want?

and now one final question what's my purpose and how can i serve? again, allowing any question on any sensation, feeling, fought to arrive. what's my purpose and how can i serve? just a reminder you don't go looking for the answer. you only ask the question. the answer is deep in your soul. just relax into your body. and open your eyes. like i said there are many kinds

of medication. this is reflection, there's self awareness, conscious choice making, knowing the difference between the perceptual and the actual. but if you just do three or four meds of reflection, living the question, first you experienced tranquillity which is meaningful in response to the questions you ask. so let's do this every day and your day will be much better. thank you. [applause] ladies and gentlemen, again, join me in the thinking the brilliant sanjiv and deepak. [applause]

book tv continues with nancy stewart, and peggy the wife of benedict arnold and lucey, the wife of george washington chief of artillery general henry knox. this is a little under an hour. >> it is a pleasure to be here in this historic place. i guess the ghosts of history are here visiting us tonight. people often ask -- can you hear me now? lowgar? we still are not projecting people ask how it is i wrote and 80,000 wordbook and i am going to give you two words on why. one of them as curiosity and the other one is the incidence. curiosity because i