book tv continues with nancy stewart, and peggy the wife of benedict arnold and lucey, the wife of george washington chief of artillery general henry knox. this is a little under an hour. >> it is a pleasure to be here in this historic place. i guess the ghosts of history are here visiting us tonight. people often ask -- can you hear me now? lowgar? we still are not projecting people ask how it is i wrote and 80,000 wordbook and i am going to give you two words on why. one of them as curiosity and the other one is the incidence. curiosity because i knew from the earlier book fair were too

weak and a half million people who were in the revolution. now, i am sure that you can name at least five, maybe ten people who were involved in significant figures in the revolution. ken weech why? -- can we tried? johnson, hammill son, franklin, an hancock, both, daniel morgan -- >> [inaudible] >> robert morris, nathaniel greene, william dunlap, patrick mchenry -- we can go on and on. now how many women can you name who were important figures? >> abigail adams -- [inaudible] [laughter]

>> betsy ross -- >> wait, wait. okay. abigail adams, martha washington, margaret corbin, betsy ross we aren't going to get up to ten, are we? [inaudible] [laughter] >> that is another issue. [laughter] >> she would have an interest in memoir. however, the point is that there were at least -- there were a million women at least who were witnesses or involved in the american revolution. but we don't know that much about them and the accounts that we have from those that are left, and this is a perfect example, they are very scant. there's only a few. we know for instance there were

women spies and the women when the british were marching up we know american patriot women followed them to keep them that we only have -- aside from the women that you mentioned -- and this was a frustration to me so i use curious kid i said to have to be more accounts and correspondence and that is how i began writing the book. the other one is coincidence, and a coincidence and, incidental in my research there were two women five years apart who both were certainly neutral in their learnings and both of them defied their path and married these radical patriots. so when i discovered that two women i was off and running and i said i really have to follow this book. without further ado, the untold

story of the revolutionary women and their medical men that the married. and i -- since you were all very knowledgeable i'm not going to dwell on this but the first one was lucey flucker who was well educated and then peggy schiff been married the then military hero benedict arnold. their lives were forever changed as a result of those marriages. one bright became a patriot and the other became a spy. cingular all knowledgeable about the american revolution, i am not going to bore you by going through this but just briefly, you know that in the 17 sixties, there were rumblings of revolution. not necessarily what we were looking for an independent, but rather that we wanted things to get better between the americans

and the british and among them the stamp act being very important and the others -- they all were inflammatory. and then of course the boston massacre and 1770 was another flash point that at that point the sons of liberty who had been collecting and gathering and then disappearing and the idea of protests died down when this happened and there was a resurgence in energy and people and we started talking about independence. and again, i'm not going to go through the list. but as you know particularly the boston tea party and then some of the others that followed we were definitely talking about the revolution at that point. boston at the time was the wealthiest and well, the busiest

port in the colony since probably no coincidence that when the cradle of the revolution began. and of course we have the boston tea party and here is an engraving of the patriots dumping it into the boston harbor. then over here on of the many political cartoons. this one illustrates the savage being teased and poured down his throat by the british. now we all have psychologists but we didn't have photographs. we did have some really terrific portrait artists who were great psychologists and this is lucey's of the who was the provincial secretary of massachusetts and crown appointed and affluent. what do you think about him from

this portrait? very stern, yes. to say the least he was certainly not tolerant of anything that had to do with radical patriots. her mother -- we know more about the farther than the mother and her mother was the heir to a vast tract of land in the district of maine. some of you may have been there and know the county and that is certainly part of that huge track that her mother had when she was one of the heiresses to that eventually. now she met this gentleman this is an early pitcher. he was very tall, 6 feet three they say. he was probably the shipmaster but he died and left henry an orphan at the age of 12. he had to drop out of the boston latin school and he becomes a printer on his own and he opens

what is called the new london bookstore which became a very fashionable salon come important books from great britain, or britain at that time. all of the young men and women including john adams and nathaniel greene. now lucey was 16 and she happened to see henry on a horse operating with the militia not too far from her parents town house and she felt very madly in love with him. this didn't go over well with her parents obviously. henry not only being poor and lower class that a radical patriot. they told her if you marry him you will always be poor. she didn't care. she is a bit of a combination of rosie o'donnell, oprah and

margaret thatcher kind of rolled into one. she was brainy and extremely strong mind. but she fell madly in love with henry and he with her and there were a wonderful letters between them so they married on june 16th 1774 in the king's chapel. this is an early picture, sorry, 1764, sorry, i'm still wrong in 1774. here is a picture. you've been to boston and you see the king's chapel is still there. of course a few months later lexington broke out and at that point, the relationship between flucker and lucey and henry disintegrated completely. to make matters worse, well, the skirmish continued all through spring but to make matters worse, the general thomas was a

good friend of lucey's father and he thought henry being young and energetic and quite intelligent and clever he would make a terrific british soldier said he forbid henry to leave boston which of course at that time was occupied. henry and lucey didn't like that so, one white so goes the story she had quilted his sword into her case and they got on a horse and the state from boston to the army camp in cambridge. lucey into that in a safe house and then eventually further out in massachusetts in the western part of the state and henry of course had joined the army. now as i say he had all these wonderful books in his book store on gunnery and fortifications and he didn't have them with him but being an

ingenious fellow with almost a photographic memory he cleverly created new fortifications on armory and gunnery and so on at bunker hill and roxbury. now washington became quite impressed with this and he wrote a love letter from henry bragging about how washington and the other generals were impressed. and at age 26 he appoints henry a colonel in the army. henry eventually goes on to become the major general, washington's chief of artillery and a close friend. of course he's invited to dinner in cambridge at the house and eventually lucey who was quite pregnant by now is also invited to meet the newly arrived martha washington and they become lifelong friends. here is a much later picture of henry and i think it is rather flattering. this is 1803. it's rather flattering i think. okay, it's probably a little

diminished. we have the cannon of course because being the chief of artillery he was in charge of all of the gunnery and the armaments and the strategic use. some of you may be familiar with that military history. but henry eventually gets to wait 290 pounds and lucey isn't far behind. [laughter] but they have this wonderful relationship love affair that goes on and on. there are 8,500, this is a proximate digitized letters involving military affairs but also many that are related to lucey and the beautiful letters between them. she writes to him, they are an absolutely passionate couple with each other all throughout their lives. washington had a tour in mind for henry. he said i think you need to go to lake champlain and pick up

some guns and cannons, 43 canons, 16 heavy guns and you know the story, well, this audience knows the story that certainly everybody had to learn about this in the high school history class how henry went up there and how he -- first it was and snow, then it was mud and then they broke through the ice and got more snow and more ice and they were eventually able to get these and bring down the 43 canons and guns to cambridge. so this is probably the more modern rendition than the pictures. lucey was not happy. lucy is a drama queen. but her parents did abandon her. she fills abandoned, her parents are not writing to her in her safe houses even though she's writing to them so she's all alone, she's pregnant, she doesn't know whether henry is going to survive, she doesn't

know what he's been to be attacked by indians or a british soldier were get disease or what. she writes to him and she is quite hysterical. all along he writes letters assuring her he is going to be all right in than the three weeks he thought it would of course take 58 days. she is quite pregnant. she's not happy that these are just examples of some of the letters. i think they are just beautiful. she writes he's always in her thoughts, his image is deeply in pretend in her heart but this is the one moment that is very contemporary. she says the man i love to much. henry on his side continues. he's a gracious letter writer and he writes he wished his signature he wants to render his devoted country a free service in his power. his only objection is that the

duties separate me from the object of all of my earthly happiness. and he calls her a charmer and they are beautiful letters to the he does return and he becomes a hero and the guns helped for the evacuation of the british. lucey has the baby, henry is ecstatic and is a hero. the only problem is all of the tories are leading boston. many of them are fleeing either to britain or canada and among them, her parents. they never write goodbye. they just leave and she never sees them again. now while henry is a slight deviation but it does relate dramatically to the story while he is in the lake and the conditions up there are pretty rough and he is launched and a

little cottage with a british prisoner. the man is john andre and he is brilliant and he's a ferocious war year and an artist and is highly cultured. even though they are on opposite sides of the political conflict, the two of them, henry e. and john andres spend the night talking all night and this comes back later on. anyway i think you know about this man, benedict arnold treated in the west indies and he made a lot of money. he was handsome, debonair, charming and incredible brave warrior. he was in quebec and during that battle which the general has appeared on his left leg was severely injured. then afterwards of course you probably know if you know any military history about the

island and what he did to save not only his soldiers but also coming down taking over that part of new york. later on he is also involved in the battle of ridgefield and most especially in saratoga he was really the hero of saratoga even though they took credit for eight. during that battle in saratoga, the same leg is so severely injured the doctors want to amputate it. arnold says no and he spends five months in an upstate military hospital. his leg is in this contraption and his health is ruined. it takes him a long time to regain his stamina and by the time he leaves his hobbling around one leg shorter than the other permanently and he is

bb a cane. so this is benedict arnold, and he -- it's a funny thing. he happens to meet lucey. two years in a row he comes to visit boston and he falls in love with another boston gal lucey is an elitist and becomes a matchmaker. the romance sizzles but they loved each other. let's fast-forward here and talk about the end of valley forge. lucey has been pining to be with henry and keeps writing him letters why won't you let me come to the army camp and she refuses. she'd already been with him in new york when the british invaded and there was a fiasco for her. henry will not let her come and finally at the end of that winter in valley forge when the roads are clear and the reinforcement is there and the

british commonwealth they're still in philadelphia that the american army is now ready for conflict and he says all right you can come if we can find a way. as it happens benedict arnold cannot ride a horse but washington wants to see him. a benedict arnold is still washington's favorite fighting general. don't forget benedict arnold is known as the hero which if you've been to the battlefield you know that is a section and it's also known as the evil of saratoga. he is revered by his man, he's incredibly brave and has them do things other sections of the army can't. he also has supported and paid for ammunition, quote his men on all of the battles i just mentioned and congress gets what they have not paid him back. so he's lost a lot of money and fortunes. his health is kind of room and

and he doesn't take washington stood up for him because when he finally made the major general it is a long after number men with not as much distinguished service and he was not publicly announced. so he is pretty upset with washington. he is upset with congress. he is not sure things are so good with this revolutionary idea. by the time he gets to valley forge he brings lucy in a stage coach and there's a wonderful comment from that who looks at the sort of a reunion of lucey and henry and says this is a perfectly wonderful married couple. now in philadelphia meanwhile the british are occupied and john andres has been set free and is very involved in social events. philadelphia is now a winter camp, a playground for the british. the occupied for nine months.

he organizes and help the others organized balls and gaming things and also other shall we say proper things that it's become a playground. it's become a miniature london. the quakers of philadelphia, they had been freed and they are horrified at the behavior of these men who were on a winter recreation break and just absolutely horrified. but so it goes. now the last of the big even before the british leave in the same year while lucey and benedict arnold had arrived at valley forge is a grand event to celebrate the departure of

general how. now come here is andre and here is one of his friends. you will notice this is a slightly caricatured you but not for much because if you read some of the literature, they had 8-foot sometimes hairdo's. now peggy is the daughter of a very well-known judge, judge edward. if he had come from that area and around philadelphia in the community you may know the community college and a lot of other associations the cattle ready long been prominent in the politics and business in philadelphia. peggy is daddy's girl. she is not only very beautiful, the british soldiers made much

of hercules she's 16, 17 and taken her. they've called [inaudible] and she's kind of tousled by this at 16 or 17 and just loving it. but then the british leave and they are not looking for the patriot guys that are going to come in. was she a sweetheart of andre the historians kind of ask that a lot and it turns out she preserved it in a gold pendant but his girlfriend was a friend of hers. they escorted her to the balls and gallas that they attended together. now the british do leave philadelphia, and of course the patriots' comeback. we've been talking about peggy's

dollar become -- father and i wonder what you get about this man. some people think that he is patriot and he played both sides. when the patriots were there first he wanted to protect his position as a judge. when the british came in he entertained them in the drawing room and you never really know which side is going to win. so, when the patriots came back and afterwards and he now they call them neutralist. he is not alone. many people, 20 to 30% of america were not sure that the revolution was a good idea. but he was pretty cagey. peggy's mother -- i don't know a lot about her. it was a love affair.

she was the daughter of an attorney and there is not a lot about her mother all the line and she loved her mother. now hecky was daddy's little girl. she was pretty, sensible, loved clothes like any young woman with in the social world. but she also had -- was another willful person. i think she's a combination of hillary clinton and maybe grace kelly or lindsay lohan. [laughter] i see her as somebody wrapped up and when she didn't get her way as a child she had a great technique. she would scream and yell and have tantrums and take to her bed and stop eating. her health would decline and the family would give in. that is what she did and she was very good at this. now, arnold becomes the commandment of the city because

he can't ride a horse he can't go into battle. now don't forget the poor philadelphians first there were the patriots and then there were the british and then there were the patriots. there was turmoil, there were buildings ruined. deutsch was not in great supply. some of the roads had been destroyed and they needed a strong peacekeeper and arnold thought this was great for him to be he couldn't be in the field of. he had a small salary in the army, get his health back and by the way, there were a little bit of the goods that were left off from the english goods and the reclaimed some of the money that congress never quite paid him back for. now of course they meet socially. he was in the master mansion and

rides around on a stage coach and he is riding around on a white cane. he is dressed in silver and entertains the young ladies at the balls and galas and the lady is all swoon over him. he's a great military leader. however there are rumblings that everything he is doing is not exactly honest. nevertheless, peggy wants to marry him. he has proposed to her, and shippin has a few qualms. not so much about the undercurrent of the nefarious dealings, but now rather some rumors about what he did back in new haven. this wasn't perhaps the person of the highest character and despite his brilliance as a military commander. so, peggy however ends this. and once again there was a reason she didn't marry him, she

would have fallen into a dancing carry. so she does marry him and 1779 in april. but there is a cloud hanging over their marriage and that is because now the patriots have gotten wind of the fact that he hasn't been dealing exactly fairly with the new american government and basically he is corrupt. so, arnold is very charming and very debonair and brilliant and he says well, if you don't believe that i am honest let me have a trial, a court-martial of my own peers. he knows he is adored. so the trial was hanging over them as they get married. but the family cannot believe that this wonderful military hero has done anything wrong. basically they close ranks around him at that time. and i love this because i think that it's really telling for the cousin elizabeth to write what

demon has possessed the people with regard to general arnold? he is certainly much of used ungrateful monsters to attack the character that has been looked up to. well, let's think about spycraft because it was alive and well at that time. there were over 500 spies that we know about and 150 at least have been documented in maine. on both sides they had many active spies. some were women, most of them were men, but it is a pretty advanced. there's a number of techniques. one of them of course you were given perhaps a letter that had a lot of members and all you did is look at the book and you would track down as we sort of try to indicate your second line, so many letters over you

would get the words and eventually piece it together and get a message. another one was of course assembled for different things. and finally, there was the invisible ink which i cannot illustrate here. [laughter] sorry. .. gorgeous sexual siren. she was married him when he was

18. he was madly in love with her. he was corrupted by the reviews. it was he, six months -- sorry, one month after they married communicating with through a spy with the british in new york. that's one view. you can find novels and you can find even some films on it, videos on it. the other view she's a poor innocent thing. it she's 18. she doesn't know any better. the man is 20 years older than she is, and she's basically totally innocent of this betrayal he has done to not only america but her. the truth is somewhere beyond that. we'll get to that in a minute. mean while, timeline because i'm looking in the book at one woman who marries. they marry radical patriots. why one remains patriotic and the other becomes a traitor. we have lucy following henry to

the army camp of revolution. and one of the camp was near mill brooke. henry had a dream being in the military college. he being brilliant. he felt the soldiers weren't well trained and created a military college. let me go back to that. and which is in new jersey, somerset county, this was the first military college, of course, 24 years what happens later in west point. it's a rendition what it was like. there were a few barracks and a training ground here. i was just here, which is where lucy and henry lived. it looks bigger than its. its a small cottage. they rented it from -- i guess, maybe he donated it, he was obviously a patriot to

america. lucy becomes pregnant just about every year. here she has the second child, julia. she does pretty well. within three weeks she's off to the nearby army camp, and watching a major military display in honor the french minister. she comes back to the house, and within a week she has hep -- hep tight, and the baby whom gets hepatitis and the baby dies. and lucy goes on to have -- all together she has thirteen children. ultimately on three survive to adulthood. some die from accident, some die from disease, some die as little children or babies -- a number die as babies. some die in early adolescence.

this is a woman abandoned by her original biological family. she only has henry. she wants to replace that family with a large family of their children. it's pretty tragic. now, 1780, arnold recovered. the leg recovered. washington wants him in the field and want him to take over the army, and arnold was in touch with the british. in fact, he had already given hints, more than hints, some tips to the british. before 1780, just before that, the tips he gave resulted in the conquest by the british of charleston. he's got a problem. they don't want to give him the money he wants. he wants 20,000 pounds minimum. it's well more than a million dollars in today's money, and the british wonder if he's a double agent.

they are not sure. and the general andre, is not sure. there's all kinds of letters that go back and forth. the argument goes back and forth about the money. one of the people who passes the papers is none other than peggy. it's proved later in history. finally proved in the early 20th century, but peggy helps with passing those letters. and perhaps more. we may not know all of what she did. anyway, what their plan is that if he will be appointed, and he argues with washington about this, washington cannot understand why he would want to be commander of west point. west point is a strategic -- obviously today, but west point was a strategic fort on the hudson, and forts around not in great shape, but it is strategic of the 90 degree angle on the hudson and the turn. if the british capture that, they can separate the patriot of new england from the patriot in

the south. and of course, most or many of the mu in munition are in new england as well as the supply rooms and the many of the recruit as well. it's important that it be protected. washington later calls west point the key to the country. but anyway, arnold complains that he does not want to go in the field. every time it's mentioned he starts hobbling a little bit more. we read about it a lot. washington finally gives in and appoints him. now, arched -- arnold is delighted. his plan for peggy is she will live in a house with him for a few weeks. and he'll meet with andre, secretly on the hudson, fill him in on the important papers and maps and provide the information so the british can conquer america quickly, end the war --

this is arnold's thinking, and we'll go back to a great power of britain. and peggy and he will gracefully exit with the british to the british with the hudson on the ship and go new york and collect the 20,000 pounds and be made a generally of -- general of the british army and all will be well. but things don't quite go that way. and you may know the story, i want to leave time for questions here. let me just say that there were a series of coincidences and unlucky or lucky in some case, breaks which andre and arnold meet, but it gets to be toward dawn on the shore of the hudson, and some other things happen. andre has no choice but to go with arnold. before he went, clinton said to

him, there were three things so you to avoid. one, you will not get in disguise. number two, you will not go in to enemy territory, number three, you won't collect any incriminating papers. it doesn't work out that way. andre finds himself in arnold's hands. i won't say clutches. finds himself captive, essentially, it's almost dawn. he has to go to the enemy territory where he's hidden for awhile. he has to change out of the british uniform in to disguise clothes. ultimately arched gives him to an assistant. and says, deliver him back to the british. but not before i give you crucial papers that shows a map of west point, give you all the details about the army, and

everything. so just before the assistant takes him toward the border with it's now safe british territory, in west westchester county, the assistant says you're okay? and andre thinks he's fine and say goodbye to each other. andre is in disguise. andre has treason papers in his boots. and just as he crosses in to territown, by himself on the horse he's captured by three men. he is ultimately brought, of course, to some of the military headquarters and is, of course, back at the home in west point waiting for washington to arrive. and all he thinks is, well. but nobody could even dream that arnold would have been a traitor. one of the military offers who

has andre in captivity sends arnold a letter saying we have a spy here. that's all arnold needs. andre is captured as a common spy. andre is -- this is a picture of him, the night before his death, his own rendition -- this is a poor but the best i could do from the engraving of him when he's hung. i'm going to come back to that in a moment. arnold, meanwhile, receives the letter about an hour or two before washington is to arrive at his home. the people who are already there are hamilton and knox and lafayette, washington sent them ahead and said you might as well go ahead. you are in love with peggy and you want to have breakfast with her. she's up stairs in the house.

and arnold dashes upstairs when she receives the letter about andre and says we have been found out. i have to leave. he escapes, having his men at gun point, row him to the reservoir in the hudson called the vulture. and one historian, said it was a one-vulture maybe another. [laughter] andre, as i say, is ultimately hung on october 2nd, 1780. peggy is in the house. she is upstairs. she is what we would call today, i guess, a person of interest. she has to think fast, and what can she do? she's 20 years of age. she has an infant son with her. she can only do one thing.

pretended she's completely innocent, and she must go insane from the shock of this betrayal. it is the performance of her life. for two days she yells and screams and rips her hair and takes off some of her clothes and pretends she can't see anything. any people nearby, she has essentially an insanity attack, and arnold, of course, is gone. she thinks what has he done? washington is completely convinced she's gone insane from the shock of the betrayal. hamilton writes to his fiancè about poor peggy. knox is completely taken in and so lafayette. you can read the documentation on the fascinating performance of a lifetime. gregg question is -- peggy is allowed to go back via

stagecoach to her parent with the baby. arnold has escaped to new york city. peggy gets there. her parents, of course with, and they spend the next 100 years defending her innocence. this goes on. pennsylvania magazine of history and biography for 100 years. you can read them, they start in 1890, '90, 98, 1900 and so on about the innocence of her. they proclaim this. the patriots do not agree. the patriots find at least one letter that she has written to andre, which is a social letter, but probably sort of in code, and they discover this and tell her father that she is to be exiled. so her father takes her to the shore of the hudson with her baby and watch her from new jersey sail to new york city to be reunited with benedict arnold. , by the--

by the way it's around the time she arrives in philadelphia she hears about andre being hanged. i will also mention to you, clinton, of course, who loves andre and would love to talk about exchanging arnold for andre; right? but he can't if he gives arched -- arnold back, what will happen to the other spies? they will never want to work for him. and so andre is hung. these are just a few of the political cartoons. you'll see this one with arnold and the devil and the pot of gold. another person helping too, because, you know, it was known he loved money and greedy. this is an actual engraving of one of the many floats that went by, this one from philadelphia, i believe. again, we have arnold here with

two-faced, moneybag, and the devil. this 66 if? blank blng there are riots all over the country. the country is on red alert. who knows what he told the british. was there to be another attack but, you know, where was this going? so the gravestone in arnold's hometown are thrown over and desecrated from his father and brother. arched -- arnold's name is stricken from the military records. you will not find the name. in the late 19th century who was a sculpture of a left booing of a soldier who helped saratoga win. that's it. he's stricken forever from the

records that he ever existed. i just wanted to -- these are two pictures, part of it anyway, part is on the front of my book. this is peggy a little later in life in england. this is her son. she has five surviving children. but amaze the is when they were young. we don't have, to my dismay, a lot of images of lucy. this is the only one we have, and it's probably -- it's a silhouette, of course, there were a lot of talk about lucy wearing her hair like a try corn or a hat. later her husband becomes secretary at war and at war. lucy loved fashion, later, and well, this is one silhouette of her. the story goes they tried to paint her but she didn't like it or it didn't come out well. i'm not sure. then a lot of comment about lucy

in history. one of them i love that she was concentric in figure and eccentric in character. [laughter] just to round this off, in american history these women -- they are almost forgotten. lucy and peggy. they are really footnotes to history. they were witnesses. when you read some of the response, you have flavor of what life during the revolution was like on the other side of the battle field. some people asked me where i did my research. these are the major places. s. i was grateful to the new york historical society. they had digitized, as i said 8,500 plus letters. i didn't have to read them on microfilm on 18th century handwriting. it would have taken me many lifetimes. and many places of interest. one of them, of course, also the

general knox museum, which it was the late -- later of the knox's in maine. so that's -- i wanted to see what would happen with the evolution of these women. not just what happened during the revolution but how they matured from these sweet-faced, passionately devoted wives, which they were, in to mature women and wives. what they learned and tolerated in where the marriages took then them. i want to leave you with one comment, i love the comment from peggy shippen-arched at the end of her life. she writes to her sister and said marriage is but a lottery. [laughter] thank you very much. [applause]

if you have any questions, i'll try to answer them. i can't promise. yes? [inaudible] >> yeah. both women outlive their husbands. lucy outlived her husband -- he died in -- knox died in 1806. lucy lived to 1840. she was devoted to him. her whole life and everything is encapsulated. it's sad what happens to her. peggy also outlives her husband. she dies in 1804. he dies in 1800. peg i did -- peggy is determined to preserve her name. she's the mother of five of his children. she's determined to restore his character. the british don't like people without good character. he never did make out too well in britain. peggy -- he was a great general much like knox.

they were lousy businessmen. so she valiantly spends the next four years of her life paying back the debt. auctioning off the material, living in a smaller house and so on and so forth to restore his name. she dies, unfortunately of uterus cancer. thank you. any other questions? yes, is? yes, sir. [inaudible] >> how? we don't know exactly. there are a lot of thing about arnold's finances. we don't know. we think he borrowed the money. he asked the british prime minister for loans. mount pleasant was a gift to peggy. they never lived there. it's in fairmont park. now it's a part of fair month park in philadelphia. it was a rental property.

so that's the best i can give you on that. any other questions? [inaudible] >> john enters -- there are comments from him. he's upset about peggy. he feels sorry for her. especially when the patriots say she has to leave philadelphia. yes, i didn't go in to more on that. i have a lot of issues to squeeze out of the words. thank you. yes? [inaudible] >> washington and lafayette, did they ever change their mind -- [inaudible] >> umm, i don't know. we do know that in the early 20th century, it was then that one of clinton's notes was published and brought to the country, in which was learned that the queen charlotte gave peggy 500 pounds a year for her,

quote, mar territorial service to the crown, end quote. that setted the question of how innocent peggy was. washington was amazed at the letter -- i won't bore you with it. but the letters that arnold writes saying the americans come join the british and come with us. he just can't believe the arrogance of him. it's a wonderful quote about that. so. yes, sir? [inaudible] [laughter] [inaudible] >> no. and that's what -- that is so intriguing about her. the family burn they were concerned about her reputation. the family burned all of her response from 1783 to chuted on. you don't get the voice until after that. you only get drips and drapes

until later. then a voice emerges, as i said, one of the people you can compare it to was hillary clinton. she's brilliant. she's a the too. she knows arnold is not so practical. she is the brains. she's the caretaker. and not lady macbeth, i don't think she has an easy life. let me just put it that way. yes? [inaudible] >> for awhile. [inaudible] no. the -- arnold's go back -- he never made off well. he fights in this country against his country men. he never gets along well in england. even though she does. one quote about her from society, they have introduced. peggy is charming woman but if her husband were dead.

[laughter] but they do go to new brunswick for awhile. and later back to -- you have to read the book to find out more. [laughter] i think we are almost out of time. >> thank you very much. [applause] for more information visit the author's website. booktv is on location at book expo america, which is annual publisher's trade show in new york city. we are talking with the publisher of chicago review press about some of the upcoming titles. cynthia sherry, what do you have coming out this year? >> the afghan war lord who lead the u.s. special forces to overtopple the taliban. on horseback. he's an interesting character. she's been fighting the taliban for thirty years. our author, bryan glenn williams

is a professor at dart mouth. he lived with him and got know his family. it's a unique access. it when the u.s. forces pull out of afghanistan, he's been fighting the taliban for all the years is likely to come back to the forefront. >> he's been an ally of the u.s. while we've in afghanistan. >> in the u.s. -- that's him there in the center. he also believes -- he's an unique character. he believes in the education of women in afghanistan. and he's a bit of a -- he has some liberal tendencies. he's very much against the taliban and the extremists. >> what was it like for the professor williams to write this book? i mean, how well did he get to know him. >> he got to live with him and get to know, you know, some of his family and friends response yeah, i think it was a unique experience for him. yeah. it's kind of a unique view of the war. >> is think there any chance

he'll be coming to the u.s. for the book tour? >> no. probably not. >> what else do you have coming out? >> "redefining girl." it's stereotyping of young girls. there's a lot of issues. but it's practice category. it gives parents practical strategy as they go to the halloween store look for costume and can't find things that are appropriate for the young girls. what steps they can take. writing the letters, finding managers. practical stuff they can take. and also gets parents to think about starting young and not sexualizing stereotyping their own kids. the author, melissa, has a popular blog. it's about redefining girly and capturing childhood again. >> that's coming out in the fall of 2013? >> yeah. >> even in 2013 we are facing this same issue of girls being

sexualized? >> even more so now because you do really have the whole culture of, you know, the, you know, the halloween costume is difficult for parents to find halloween costumes that are appropriate for young girls they are all, you know, the short little french maid costume or tart let costume. it goes throughout the toy store you go to any target or whatnot. you have the section which is the bashar dolls. >> what is the chicago review press. are you private? >> we are independently owned. we are celebrating our 40th anniversary this year. >> not associated with the university or anything? >> no. the owner of the company, was a grad student for the university of chicago. he worked for the poetry magazine there. when he got wonderful things he couldn't publish for the journal. he wanted to do it on the own. he didn't get the permission to

use the name. what is your background. >> i've been with the company for 25 years. i started out in the accounting department and worked my way up through the company. >> i want to ask you about another book you have. "above the din of war." >> yeah. this is peter, he's one of the great authors. he's a journalist, and he traveled to afghanistan and really met with people there, and really talked with them about what the experience have been. the occupation there and the war going on and what their feelings are. and meets with the shopkeepers. and the different people there. >> cynthia sherry, another book that caught our eye was intreen that's new book. >> "do i look an atm" a parent's guide to raising responsible african-american children. it's practical and about financial education and starting young with your kids about understanding money and how to be responsible about your spend. it's particularly interest in the african-american community. who tend to spend a lot of money on, you know, when they have it

on cars and, you know, fancy jewelry and this is really kind of looking at your issues as a parent with money and how you spend money and how to have better habits on your kids. >> one more i want to ask about before we leave you, "home front girl." >> this is a wonderful diary. it's a diary of a woman from chicago who she grew up in chicago. she went to the university of chicago, and during the war she was a teen, she kept a journal. she was very politically active as a teen and smart. started at the university of chicago as a 16-year-old got in. and her daughter found her journal much later in life, and published them. so we have a publish journal as a teenager during wartime in chicago. it was a wonderful glimpse what it was like to be in america on the home front during the war. visit booktv.org.

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