never read it. it looks good. i hope to read it. ..

>> i think that there are a few reasons. one is that almost everybody still sees world war ii. as a very unusual thing. a good war. a war in which good is pitted against on this beautiful evil. secondly, it was the greatest event in human history. 27,000 people died in world war ii, 60 million people at least died in the whole conflict. it was tragic. not only in the 20th century was the the most deadly war, but probably of all time. there are new things that we can say now. you can still surprise people. when i wrote my last book, one

man said i hear that you are writing another book about world war ii. and i said, well, what percentage of german soldiers killed in world war ii would you guess are killed? and the figure was over 90%. so that made our contributions seem rather less significant. and i talked him on another number. i said what percentage of allied casualties would you guess are british or american. he said maybe 20% each. and i said the true figure was 2% americans. 2% british. i think 63% russian. 23% chinese. i am only giving these as tiny examples of how one of the

things that i think this is about, the 21st century audience in the united states and all over the world, we always feel much less nationalistic and we are willing to try to look at things in a much more global way. when i grew up as a young man, my father, who adored world war ii, he was a war correspondent. he brought me out to look at world war ii is a great adventure. a lot of his generation who have enjoyed the war. you know, my father brought me out in a boy scout type away on this great adventure. almost everything that happened to me over 40 to 50 years as i was a child, it has been a process of getting educated and

getting real about this. to give you an example, i remember very well when i was writing a book. and his pilot had won a posthumous victory cross. so the rest of them could come. the pilot went down with the ship. all these years later, the navigator says to me, i always remember the last night in the pub before we went on that trip. and we were all chasing him. because he was 19 years old and he admitted that he never kissed a girl in his life. now, what he said went straight through me. and i thought, well, maybe wars in general, they were not such a

rock that my father brought me up to believe. what good does it do to have a medal of honor at all. everything about me has been written about what it is like to draw. in the united states, in britain from all over, they have grown up as well. and we were kids, we never quite realized it was like this. everyone is so much more responsive and we understand how much it is for civilians. the more died than civilians. >> mr. hastings, do we know enough about russia's role in the west? >> we are getting that way. thirty or 40 years ago, everybody in the united states that the united states had won

the reward single-handedly. that we could have a little industrial help from the united states. but nowadays we are getting more grown up about it. the russians did most of the heavy lifting. but they did not deserve most of the credit he had this great legend of the grand alliance with churchill. but the truth is it was every bit as evil as hitler's journey. the only thing that makes someone that much less evil than hitler if he had no single in normandy to match the holocaust. but on every other respect, it wasn't equally dreadful place. in 19411 russia came in to work on at that time stalin had killed far more people than

russia. he had killed so many more people. he talked about all of the dreadful things that have gone on. but on the other hand, we have cause to be very grateful. young americans, young british men, they survived the second world war that will get them. it is just incredible. the russians lost 27 million people in the water. and 11 million soldiers. but one in four of them died in the war. i think it was one in 20 or one in 30 american servicemen died. so the russians did all of the heavy lifting. but stalin was an unbelievably

wicked man. wanting it is very scary that he went to berlin and he had a taxi driver that went to a place and there was a picture of hitler on his windscreen. you would think that would not happen. in moscow, they still have a lot of pictures of stone on the taxi drivers windscreens. vladimir putin goes around saying that john was a wonderful man. he still thinks that. many were taught that he had a few things wrong but he was basically a good man. the representative of unspeakable evil. >> so many english soldiers and americans just like it was about 400,000 for the united states and britain. and in the british case, that included 50 or 60,000 civilians killed by bombings.

but that doesn't mean that generation, if they were around now, they say don't to four minutes a, when you say that we can do our bit. do not say that for a moment that i do not have respect for what that generation did in the united states. it is just that -- in the 21st century, we need to take a slightly more global view. a lot of people don't know china was in the war. 15 million chinese died in the war. it is amazing. the chinese got harbored by the japanese and by of their own warlords. hardly anyone today knows anything about what happened in china. so we tend to know a lot about the things we want to know about. we all know about d-day because that was our finest hour. but we don't want to know about the battle of britain. we know a lot about the united states in the pacific.

i personally think the united states navy was the greatest ally fighting forces. they were just phenomenal. you know, what they did up against the japanese was quite something. we know about that stuff. but a lot of other things we don't know so much about. i have come to realize that although you have to tell the story, there is a huge mentioning of this. which is about all these countless millions of people all of this with the wives and mothers who were separated for years on end.

especially from an unimaginable scale. so many people start can you think of anything worse? millions of people saw their children start. most americans think of vietnam, they think of the vietnam war in which the united states was involved was the worst thing that happened. many vietnamese of experience of this was worse than the vietnam war in the 60s and 70s. a 1 million vietnamese died of starvation because of japanese policies which involve this only to feed japan, the vietnamese were shipped and 1 million of

them starved and were dead. how many people know, even most dedicated students, it was always something new that you could tell people that they didn't know before. >> how would world war ii have ended in 1942 eastern front had not opened? >> i think the united states and britain would probably have prevailed in the end. but in the end, it could've been a terribly long time. one of the things that i think we get wrong is that we all think that the first world war is much worse than the second world war we had better generals who understood that you have to be more careful. this was not so. the truth was that in these terrible 20th century wars. to defeat a very powerful enemy

industrial states, a lot of people had to die. and the only thing different was the first world war, that was the french and the british and the russians, actually the russians lost a lot of people as well. they lost an enormous amount of people on the battlefield. because it was predominantly day who did this, and the second world war there was even more dying. it was the russians on the east confront that did it. if you look at the normandy campaign, one thing people don't understand, everyone focuses on d-day. it was a huge and fantastic event which the allies ran brilliantly well. but the casualties, the allied casualties were so much more.

in normandy after that the d-day event, it was just as bad because you you're going head-to-head with this fantastically powerful german army battering away at each other. it wasn't until the german army had been battered down and broken then of course there was the great allied sweep across france. but he say to people that actually the allies lost about 3000 dead on d-day, well, days later in the campaign, when we lost a lot more, and that's what happened is that we are in london. this is booktv on c-span2. we are talking with max hastings. he's the author of several books on world war ii. also, a new book coming on world war i, which we will get to in just a moment.

we are in london. what would the city have been like during world war ii? >> unbelievably great. but many americans were terribly depressed finding themselves in this wartime this way. first of all, it was completely blacked out, all the way to 1945, not a light showed at night in the city. well, that was terribly depressing, especially when the darkness went on for some time. people found the longer that they were here, it really ate at their spirits. the perpetual darkness. every window had to be curtained or blacked out. and if you show to light in any form, you had a warden jumping out at you and you could be sent to court and find a hundred dollars, which is a lot of money. cars and buses traveling with them little light and etc. a lot of accidents.

more people died in accidents in the blackout than were killed in love falafel. it was so dangerous for pedestrians walking in a fog. people were falling into holes and having terrible accident. that is a surprising statistic that surprises a lot of people. there was gray dust on everything from the blitz that no one had been able to tear up. that layer of dust hung over the city. there was no glass around to replace the shattered windows. nobody start, but the food was unbelievably dreary. a lot of americans complained bitterly about the food. it was pretty awful. but as i say, nobody start. rationing worked. the poor and britain ate better than they had before the war. because they were forced to have a balanced diet under rations.

nobody enjoyed the food much. people got really depressed. if you are rich, black market you could buy all sorts of delicacies, you could get a hold of meat and wine. but you have to pay. but if you were not rich and you play by the rules, then it was a pretty great and dreary life. an american officer said that the british his teeth were terrible. but of course they were because they were neglected. the first thing the british girls knew about american men is that they all had wonderful tea. >> host: max hastings, how important is the legacy of world war ii to this country today?

>> guest: it is sometimes said the british are too obsessed with the second world war. of course, it was the last thing that we felt confident that we did well, rather than our fathers and grandfathers did well. it is right to be proud of. as long as we realize that we must live for the 21st century and we cannot look backwards. one of the biggest mistakes that some states and statesman make is that we have shared values, but even in the same world war, although roosevelt structured this great thing for the english-speaking people, the united states always conducted the relations with each other's perceptions of their own interest.

i don't think president roosevelt like britain very much. he didn't want to lose the world and trim more, but i don't think he felt any great sentiment. nowadays you do get some silly british politicians who expect the same things. they get the wrong idea. actually when it comes to this, yeah, we do have a lot in common and we probably have the same foreign-policy objectives and we want the same things. but the idea that we can expect the united states to do us any favors, i am often think our politicians forget it. >> host: what you call your book retribution? >> guest: i think that retribution is what many if not most americans supportive felt like. a hatred that was sort of felt.

a brilliant american historian who was over there. many of them found it very difficult to understand why they were then why they were fighting the germans at all. what is japan, is completely because of pearl harbor. and also because americans have habits to store things with china. americans have been tremendously exercised about the ghastly doings of the japanese in china, and all of the other things. savimbi americans heated the japanese. in way that they did not hate the germans. they saw what happened. the retribution covers this. most americans saw all of this

is a great exercise on retribution. i think that in the end, the japanese have gone to the war determined to make themselves a great imperial power and to dominate asia. they behave with a barbarism which is demanding a retraction of some of the japanese apologies and what happened in world war ii. many are still in denial about what they did. one thing that i would say in favor of this is that we have done our fair share couple things around the world. we do try these days to confront this in our history books and on television and our politicians have apologized for things that we thought wrong.

the japanese are still in denial. if you say too many educated japanese, vigils will boycott you. and i am afraid that i am part of this culture that i think that we try to face this. i think it is rather depressing how many countries around the world, including russia are in denial about that. >> host: what about german scholarship in world war ii. >> guest: they have been amazingly phenomenal in their views. if you take the official history world war ii, published in this way, the huge volume that has been published over the last 20 years, and it's an absolute masterpiece. about all sorts of things. for example i remember when i was reviewing the volumes that

the germans had produced. it was designed into the plan. the starvation about 30 million people in the ukraine. for one, i didn't notice until i read it in the german history. so they had tremendous courage and scholarship. by contrast, france remains the only participant. they have never published an official history and probably never will. >> host: what did happen? >> guest: it was occupied by the germans in 1940 and 1945. in the first year or two, a great many french people collaborated with the not cease. it remains a statistic that the

french are not proud of. more french people. on for the german cause or for vichy, france. they sometimes forget that most of the french soldiers were repatriated and, i'm sorry, re-evacuated from france with the british. but when they were in britain, they said that we want to go home. the british said, well, the germans are occupying france. they said that we are fighting for freedom. in 1941, the british go into syria. the french highlight tigers against the british. there was a french fighter pilot shot down planes in 1941.

they fought like tigers against the british. and the british children's author, wrote all, he was a british fighter pilot in syria. he said that i, for one, will never forgive the french for how fiercely they fought against us. eventually the french were beaten. they were offered the chance to fight to free france against the germans. all that about 6000 chose to go back to france. they refuse to do anything having to do with them. so maybe if we had been occupied, we would have behaved the same way. but the french find that their history world war ii very confusing. >> host: this is booktv on c-span2. we are in london talking with sir max hastings. he has a new book coming out on world war i. it is entitled "catastrophe

1914: europe goes to war." was world war i optional? >> guest: an amazing number of historians, including some british ones, right as if it did not matter who won world war i. well, i have to say that i think they are wrong. one of our historians wrote a book about this a few years ago in which he argued that britain remained neutral. so the germans would have won world war i, but it would not have mattered. because the european union would've come into being 150 years early. i think that view is completely mistaken. you cannot say that it was as evil as not to germany. because nothing took place resembling the holocaust, although it was very under cemented. but the ambitions of germany to control the continent and to achieve, i won't say that there

was never a plan for global dominance. but the germans had incredibly ambitious plans for taking over huge chunks of europe. which would give germany and absolutely vice like grip. so much money up front that they would not be a serious nation for decades to come, removing large chunks of france, including a coastal strip. the idea that it would not have mattered if they had taken over europe is absolutely crazy. the trouble is we are all clear morally what we think about world war ii, there is an evil force in hitler. the japanese. and they had to be beaten. we are much more confused these days. especially about what world war i was about.

the fact is that most of the historians that i respect, including most of the good german ones, they agree that they were the prime primary ones in world war i as well as world war ii. i am not persuaded that the germans were bent on having a wholesale european war. but what basically happened is in july of 1940, the austrians decided that they were going to extinguish serbia. they thought the serbians were a menace to their empire. and that nobody argues about that. the war against them. the germany gave them what became known as the blank check. they said okay, have your war in serbia and then we will deal

with the russians. but they did not say, you try and sort this out without war. they said to the austrians evil head and have your war. if it becomes a european war, so be it. at the very least, this was a fantastically responsible baggage. the russians had always warned that they regarded themselves as a protector to serbia. and why should they. they watched a nation that was their protection. watch out for their own reasons. so the russians came in of the germans and the french allies and all of the russians. but the big question was for the british. because there are no great interest in serbia. they were very doubtful about russia. russia was still ruled by the czar.

but the british felt very uneasy about being mixed up. so even in the last days of july of 1914, the british were very unsure whether they wanted to have anything to do with his european war. british prime minister said we would have to fight. winston churchill was always up for a fight. the foreign secretary, sir edward grey, he thought that if france was certain, that we must fight. but i think it was unavoidable with belgium. i what happened is that belgium had always been guaranteed as a neutral power. there was a treaty were they all agreed that belgium was part of it. and the germans announced that the german army is going to attack france through belgium.

and the german government sent a formal note saying that we just are notifying you that we are going to send our army. well, they appealed to them to let them come, but they said no, why should we. we are a neutral state and we will defend ourselves. why should he not have done so? the german army, nonetheless, the king king of the belgians said, we are neutral, the german army is marching and were you going to do about it. and they changed everything. so we were expected to stand by

why the germans raped belgium. and i think it was just wrong. it is so unspeakable. and what became known as the poet's view took over. robert gray took the view of what was happening was so dreadful and some of them at least. but how do you pack it in. none of the poets ever sketched a convincing diplomatic process by waving the white flag. and i think it was all much more

difficult. one of the veterans that i quoted in my book, who i think put it well, he wrote a memoir in 1978. he said in his memoir that he was fed up with reading all this stuff about the first world war being futile and they never should've been allowed to go on their own. he said that me and my generation -- we answered the first world war expecting a romantic adventure believing passionately in the wisdom and the justice of our cause. he said we emerged in 1918 bitterly disillusioned about the nature of the venture but believing passionately in the rightness of the cause. i think that they were right to believe in the justice of the cause. and so i say it was an unspeakable sprints and a catastrophe for europe. many people ended up believing

that nothing was worth it. so you think of trenches and machine guns when it comes to war. but the first campaign, which i told about was about serbia were a million serbs died. and then russia and belgium. the french army. they went into the battles of 1914.

they led the charge is wearing white gloves, flags flying, tens of thousands of than in the earlier campaigns. of course, they are up against this and the consequences were devastating. everyone thinks that the worst slaughter took place in 1916 and 1917. the bloodiest day was august the 23rd of 1914 when the french lost 27,000 on the battlefield.

they also attacked in great masses. the germans were then trying to attack against them. everyone who survived would be awarded a cost. this is all in writing. and the next day, and the casualty list, you see a sense of this. it was so unlike what came later. and many people have no idea on

the scale of what happened it was the largest single casualty of any war. as for the russians, the russian calorie, they had one raid in 1914. one hundred squadrons. that was the scale that it was happening. in world war i i learned about when writing this book. >> host: we are out of time, you're watching the tv in london. we have been talking with author and historian max hastings. his newest book is "catastrophe 1914: europe goes to war."

max hastings, what is the best website to contact you? >> all they have to do is google max hastings and they will find us at max hastings.com. i look forward to hearing from you and i answer every single e-mail to my website. >> politics and public affairs featured on c-span featuring live coverage of the u.s. senate during the week. every weekend, the latest nonfiction authors and books on

booktv. and when it comes to women, none of us really wanted to become victims. now, a woman who wanted to be a doctor when she was a kid. so i can also tell you that when

she was 16 she fell in love with a young man they would laugh at each other and they would have a crush with each other. until the war broke out, they had a happy marriage. when the war broke out, it took everything away from them. he started drinking. he became an alcoholic. and then he started beating her up. when he left from prison, he divorced his wife. i want to tell you that she was raped two years ago by a soldier

she did not know who he is in congo. but that is not only her, she is a woman who made up her hair in the style. she was a woman who was in love, she was a woman who was beaten and who survived. the story is never a simple story of those others. the woman i ended up helping actually helped me. when i ask what she means by piece, part of this is to understand one piece from a woman's perspective. and she said peace is inside my

heart. no one can take away for me. no one can give it to me. i go to yoga every single day and i try. i spend so much money on yoga studios and medication and all kinds of things. just so i can understand what she's talking about. peace is inside my heart. no one can take it away from you. no one can give it to me. the day she was supposed to be killed, a man said he will give her his military uniform and pretend that the machine gun and he steals someone's motorcycle so he can give her a ride to her home village and she says that the child they had out of rape is for profit. she teaches me how to love. you would care and understand

the intimate story is not only the horrible stories. but this woman said do not look at me as a poor woman. i was a rich woman wants. the war came and they took her cows and chickens and goats and they took it away from her. we must connect what we learned in the journey. this woman was not smiling because she had a gap in her teeth. like many of us appreciating beauty and want to be beautiful and was embarrassed, you can see that if we cannot on the beautiful story, and if we connect on the life story, and if we connect on the marriage story that this woman has been cheated on and as a result, got her hiv, these are stories that any of us could go through. they are stories that i learned

from this woman who is a beautician. i learned how to pay attention to my lips and my eyebrows and she helped me afterwards. because in afghanistan, there is beauty that everyone appreciates. the women behind, she actually makes sure that she does all the weddings i choose to not make up in all of that. and there are women who are marrying men 40 years older than her. they were so worried about her that they gave up. they were so worried they would kidnap her anyway. she is victimized. she has been so victimized. she is not defined by her victim's story. it is such a shame on us.

but they said if you cannot respect those who serve, and you better not serve them. because they would feel if you do not respect them but that was egregious. >> you can watch this and other programs online booktv.org. up next.tv, shall shirley meyer. [applause] [applause] >> thank you so much. thank you for coming, everyone. we have changed the slides in the front. let me say thank you to all of you. those of you who write and do research are dependent on a vax network of support. i would like to express so much support to the editors and publishers who helped me on this journey that i'm going to be speaking witu