theory for all the forces of nature we don't have a better canada for that however are few, if any so it could turn out this entire theory is in the wrong direction. now should we stop doing this? i don't think so we don't have the better theory at the moment and the greatest minds existing today i think they should continue to work but keep in mind it is possible that maybe we need to take a different completely direction. >> host: thank you for right to your book, it is a great contribution to the

culture of science and allows us to learn lessons from history. it was wonderful to talk with you. congratulations on your book >> guest: thank you for having me

>> good evening. my name is john hunter i am the author of "world peace and other 4th-grade achievements" in we are here at park roads books is in charlotte north carolina just let the folks at home no. thank you for coming out tonight. i will just talk for a few moments and then just like to see if there are any questions coming from the audience. this book is a labor of a lot of people. i thought when i started to

become a writer negative i would take or become a writer about myself but this is a book published by how often hoffman mifflin the literary agency got involved the book came no april 2013 this year and i have been sharing the book with people all across the country and it appears to be the world as well he might give heard the world peacekeeper and is a summit simulation i treated about 35 years ago when i taught in richmond, virginia public schools. i was a beginning teacher and i didn't know what i was doing. it was my first job but the key thing that made a difference was my supervisor at the time when i asked her what should i do thinking i would get an instruction

manual, she didn't push she said what do you want to do? it really upset me that a young teacher waiting for guidance i wanted to do things right and instead of giving me directions she opened a large space for me and that became the template for everything i would do after that. the very first was the world peace game. i was teaching gifted and talented kids doing what i wanted to do, i did not know what that was i thought i would try to do what my great mentors and role raised advised to say find out who your students are in really get to know them and

find out what there passions are find out what they care about them and build curriculum to that war around that. there love and passion will drive your curriculum you will have to teach very much because they will be in charge because they feel they have ownership it is there work so i ask my students that first year in 1978, what you care about? i asked individually and as a group in 1978 they loved board games we did not have facebook for computers believe it or not. i said i would use that passion may have to have a board game. my school had a curriculum of his teaching social studies so africa in board games and put those together and then problem-solving was just invented as a curriculum tool so i thought

i did a matchup of all three together to create the first four flit by 5-foot plywood board game called the world peace gave was about africa i thought why not go for the whole world? weinstock and africa? so i would take the problem of the continent and divide them up among the countries into team said the objective was to solve the problem and actually let's ask them to improve in we have been playing it ever since the first is used a real country them later i started to use fictional countries because i found out the students were not winning fed gave the very well after a few

years. i did not know why in my question them they came to light the real countries really get the newspaper and asked her parents and retake their suggestions real problems in the real world of course, they're not solving them. so we kept the real problems and modified where appropriate kept going. into day from its plywood board on the floor is four by four by four plexiglas tower that towers over most of my fourth graders were i teach. it emulates hours. there are four layers four sheets of plexiglas arranged to make a tower and with each layer we have hundreds

of game pieces from hobby shops in toys stores i have collected them over the decades the bottom level is undersea mining, coral reefs, endangered species and a little figures. there is a space level on top. scattered with stars, as space stations, satellites have astrolabe mining also the black hole rescue scenario put in now just below the air at their eye level is there aircraft the weather guide can change that negative she likes the we had territory airspace marked off from the ground and sea level so there are four countries which wealth

and assets marked off on this sheet there are cities and towns and countries a and universities and the things we have on earth in their divided into four country teams of the prime minister, secretary of state , cfo and chief financial officer for each country in the united nations body a world bank and arms dealers for i put that in that question will side of human nature that the eagerly want to play that role this and we have the weather goddess that determines the severity or the extent of emergencies or good fortune in the also have a saboteur not always sometimes their students always in trouble that is my

best didn't i would use that skill set shall we say i would ask would you please use your ability to get in trouble so much to the good of the game? and a job at the chance. so that student has the twofold job and so they are playing their role trying to win the game to solve the crisis in rates the asset value they tried to do that and at the same time through misinformation and ambiguities and irrelevancies you lee rose they cannot lie outright they tried to destroy the entire game we all know the person is there but we got

know who he is automatically the knowledge that they exist forces everyone to consider were deeply everything that is said every nuance, a gesture gesture, line of thought so we try to increase critical and creative thinking to present an opportunity to probe more deeply into everything each one has a top secret dossier they have documents linked to trade agreements and tariffs and fines and fees santry these and inventories and so forth i think 25 pages of documents also a 13 page crisis document with 50 interlocking problems that i rip from the headlines and modified and interlock so every crisis is connected in

every way possible economically liberal cheerily and socially so if one changes everything else changes as much as possible. we're deliberately trying to new complex of five the situation because we really believe they can handle it we don't break things down to smaller bite size pieces we believe that children actually came and we give them that challenge and have them rise to it. says every country's asset value must be raised beyond the starting point i will choose the leadership of all the bodies that they choose their team the world bank chooses there's united nations secretary general chooses his or her deputy secretary and so forth to use their own cabinet the

game starts with the students in hearing crisis in every way imaginable ranging from ethnic and religious and minority struggles, hazardous wastes nuclear proliferation water rights issues breakaway republics, climate change change, oil spills spills, endangered species, everything i could think of is in there all tied together as one messy problem in the odd thing is the game is designed to fail massively at first. failure is a part of life we call a bad but we take the stigma about it is a condition that we want to change success as a condition you like to last about a bit longer but ultimately just as in real life so we're not protecting students from the reality but in the appropriate way

have them work through failure as well as live through success which also has its own problems in the immediately go into despair because nothing works. they fail. is supposed to it be ears life. and the thing that holds it together is the relationship we have between teacher started which i believe is fundamental to teaching began diverting i have to know them and care about them we have to under steve each other in when we have that respect we finally have not a teacher in 2530 students but 30 year 31 coach teachers a new room they are empowered to take on themselves i a famous for saying i know the answer and asking them what they think by a admit the truth to the right of french i don't know everything we're all here to

learn something. so that satin rephrasing were redirecting of the question i see them shake their heads sometimes mr. hunter doesn't know, we have to help him it seems to develop compassion. they want to help me they say this man needs help he is unsure so the work of the problems together i cannot direct i can only remind them of possible consequences but they can do whatever they want to it is there game. they can go to war, the espionage, a trade deals and hopefully in that environment they learn what works a and what doesn't and after decades of doing this is they always always always come out on the side of

compassion to take care of everyone. even though it put them in situations to do the wrong thing they still find a way through that to take care of everybody on the planet and solve all of those interlocking problems every time i play the game affright -- afraid it will work this time they can launch a nuclear weapon if they want to i cannot stop them they have come close a few times it is a dark day because they have gone as far as humans will go to explore the dark side but a turnaround on their own to understand they're not playing against each other the plate against the gate when they realized you can feel the change then

suddenly they play against the game and the author of the book flow the internet state where they seem to master everything in time speeds ever slows down to a ship -- glacial speed they feel like they are masters of their own universe and at that point hour weather goddess sometimes she calls a recess to see if it is a possibility but they do this time and time again it will go one for minutes or an hour children in full power and wisdom and understanding man ag to fix the world with creative fed fresh ideas with no adults the and interference.

it moves me everytime i see it and it is a remarkable thing and they do it every time even though the situation is of paul -- impossible i invented it and i can't solve it but it takes all of them. every one of them is required and at the end they say can we have more problems? and the class is almost over but how about a few more? we have to go. then we will have to create more problems and attacking each other for no reason that they do that out of fun in a look at me to say we can master any problems to wine not take on a few more? they leave with such confidence and a positive attitude that we wonder how does this carry over to the real world? when students heard gave it

is in the area she is in the film it is called "world peace and other 4th-grade achievements" just the same as the book the film maker from virginia made a documentary film about this process and it really became about teachers and teaching not about me and it is seen worldwide it has won a number of awards and since then it has been made a documentary but a fiery young girl prime minister of the poorest country and therefore having the greatest challenge came to the real peace gave having some water rights issues in the next year she read in class in the fifth grade class about a village in mozambique has water problems it was contaminated and people were dying.

she read about this in her studies and she discovered it took $100 to get fresh water well put in so having similar problems in the world peace gave actually organized charity of her fellow students to collect their pennies and nickels and dimes and quarters issue got together when the dollars it had little facilitate the transfer to have a well put in to save lives protected year-old girl with an idea inspired by her real-life experience and assimilation about the real world. i know how you grade that in teaching to the test and i have my opinions but i would just ask how do you grade something like that? tissue may get it a letter see because she did not say

to villages? you go beyond that snapshot of the letter grade my colleague who is a great educators says the test is a snapshot we try to get the big picture you want the full frontal album and a whole portfolio you don't want to depend on a single snapshot to understand their lives so a million has shown us that it has in effect there are great teachers all over america and i have a partnership with the martin institute in jamie baker and i travel around the world presenting the recipes game and its principals to inspire those teachers to do their own best work and we find there are so many great teachers in the

world, astounding numbers doing fantastic things but do we see them? we see of film now and then about a disaster somewhere to have this idea that everything is falling apart but my experience has been there are so many fantastic teacher is doing great work and students are doing well with a lot of places so i am very inspired and optimistic about education today. we have problems one of them is that test preoccupation yes we do have to have some feedback and information but if it is so strong in that direction we can see the rearview mirror to see where we have been to get a look at herself three cannot see the landscape in front of us we. that is merely comment about that. so this is the nub public

television across america several times the rights have been bought in a number of countries i think your way, israel, self korea, an area, i believe dystonia actually which is interesting. chris is very happy to have success. again it is not about a single teacher i see myself but then they disappear literally i see myself teaching but i see my teachers teaching through me my mother was my fourth grade teacher in the 1960's and that turned out well and really became one that my mother's gesture my smile is my tenth grade geometry teacher miss ethel banks the

way i put my hand on my desk the way she did which is hardly ever but all those experiences have gone into making of course, every effort i can manage to be a good teacher so i owe a huge debt of gratitude. we all do really it all comes from somewhere. somebody made a possible so with that huge unpayable debt if they start to think the people we will be here all night but i would like to fait que to chris so many better teachers than i have a camera in their classrooms and i feel the responsibility to tell you about those teachers you may hear about the world peace

game and the news in the book and stores that are fun and interesting but that is just the tip of the iceberg. beverly teachers and educators and selfishly and unpaid but to come only from virginia just to talk about this book and teachers and education. but i will say one final thing that open up for questions. the film lead us out to silicon valley couple years ago we had a premier design firm on the plan i untold

designing band-aids band-aids, shopping carts, satellites. a lovely campus in silicon valley they asked us to screen the film "world peace and other 4th-grade achievements" and asked to see the game so chris and i went to show the film fetid is designed thinking. said no what that is but it sounds wonderful. thank you. beautiful jewelry and she handed me a card and it said pentagon, defense department. i said i am sure we have time it is scheduled to come see you. [laughter] so we were invited to the defense department on behalf of the undersecretary of

defense we got to the pentagon and went through security this small town filmmaker and schoolteacher there was a huge, huge building. he had the most amazing revelation. the film "world peace and other 4th-grade achievements" and the documentary about a small town schoolteacher playing a geopolitical simulation has been screened for times at the pentagon by policy and military people. we were stunned and they screamed it again with us there then they turned to less than said we want to talk about the world peace game in the empty space the game creates. you did know what to do you created it. it seems to be about no answers being present. we need more of a year like

real mostly the piece swing in the pentagon so we had it to our very sincere discussion about the space. retired. we're suffering in we need answers wherever we can find them. it was eye opening we just thought it was monolithic military machine. it turns out there people in the weeks later got a phone call i like you to bring your students to the pentagon we want to talk to them and get ideas for you can imagine how i felt as a teacher. [laughter] so my students rose to the challenge and we said we will be prepared for the real world i put them on the pakistan dusk nigeria, the chief staff member this is

economic political military social issues they were assigned to with the white paper full of information they had the top secret dossier as they walk down the hall of the pentagon. top-secret. [laughter] they got a lot of respect we were backed by a roomful of military policy people that were three and four star general from every staff -- branch of service to have a policy discussion with nine year-old veteran diplomats. they would ask questions about how would you handle insurgents in the field? this is what do we do this is how they would answer. had to handle your supply change -- supply chain? would you? and the students would answer. it was an amazing experience to be in the room of

course, they have a great time they are thrilled about the building and the center of the pentagon that the soviets targeted and it turned out to be a hot dog stand in the center of the structure but after words there was a door opened for us we were assured into the office of the then defense secretary mr. leon panetta the grand man himself in his coat and tie just like your grandfather in welcomes students into his office. in he had us don't from the been logged in compound and they would put their hands on his desk he said don't touch those buttons especially the red one. [laughter] b had a discussion, a policy discussion on a photo opportunity. he talked about a strategy

here is our problem how to deal with yours? he said 10 minutes instead half an hour. he took off his coat to get comfortable and he gave them at tour and then tried to get into his next meeting he stopped and did the most amazing thing. military does something called they have a special coin minted in their name is called coining it is for a tremendous service or above and beyond the call. defense secretary panetta and the ceremonial handshake gave everyone of our students up choline for cory heard later staffer said i have known him for years and i hardly have ever seen that happen. there was another general in the hall with stars all over his sleeves and shoulders general dan see if he says

mr. hunter in the world peace delegation? i would like to clean you as well. you can imagine what the students felt and what they will carry with them and despite conflicting feelings about being a pacifist or peacemaker to meet people to do their best it was moving and conflicting facing all at the same time. so that story is of the pentagon and i will ask -- and will tell you one more. we went to national tennessee to the bar in is to giving a talk to the school and a young man came to pick us up at the airport in was a teacher of the school. nice shoes, a lovely hair cut, a nice car, we thought

we had him figured out. got it made. no problem. what does he know? we got in his car and he said mr. hunter i saw the film "world peace and other 4th-grade achievements." i like to that i said that is very nice. thank you. what did you like about it? he said white you write the students -- have the students write a letter the military commander, in the game the way to the troops in battle may be shed right to a letter home to explain what happened in to offer condolences. they don't take it seriously baryta couple paragraphs but this gentleman said i like that that you have them write the letter. wires that? he said because up in tel a year and a half ago i was a marine military commander i fought in afghanistan and iraq i did several tour i

bought -- fought in the battle of felicia one of the worst street battles in recent history. it all he would say about that was it was a kinetic situation. kinetic. he said i am glad to have them write that letter because when i was a commander i had to write that letter. i had to make a phone call to the parents and go to the home to tell them what had happened to their son or daughter. said you keep have been them write that letter -- having the right the letter so they know the consequences of what war is you keep the letter in the game. identify yet gotten a better affirmation we were playing

something this young man had lived under the most terrible situation and circumstance. they play that's a maybe some day they don't have to do what he has done. thank you for lease -- listening to me ramble on. are there any questions about the game, howard is worked, how it is played? would you like to play? we can turn this table around. [laughter] but please feel free. i would love to hear them. >> you mentioned a little girl that did the charity for the wells. have you had an the other students, have they gone on to diplomatic things or other interests? >> that is a great question.

it is a bittersweet question because as a teacher the students leave your classroom if you are at the top level they leave for school and you may never ever see them again in may not ever know what happened to them with it -- literally you lay awake wondering what happened to this kid and you wonder. through social media a lot of students come back 10 or 20 or 30 years ago. once did in particular is named eileen she played it about 17 years ago and wrote to later -- she wrote a letter i saw your talk about the world peace game and in the last 10 minutes i started crying. i remember because you've that we do everything wrong. he let me be the black-market arms dealer, defied united nations, i tried to have a coup in failed but the game

allows all kinds of things to be worked out in future have been and now she said ibm in "war and peace" studies in international diplomacy studies at north carolina at chapel hill. i solve diplomatic problems in my class when they get a diplomatic problem my figures started to go because i am so excited to work with diplomacy and my professors cannot understand why it's so good issues that i have been doing this since i was nine years old. [laughter] sheikh wrote a letter it is on our web site there are letters that come in like that one student said she was a facilitator general my system that moved me out of a job about halfway through the game and took over which is allowed in she moved away and went to hawaii but memories make it tolerable.

what do you know, ? that is on our web site. [laughter] so we're getting some great feedback from those kids that do go on. it is a wonderful thing to hear as a teacher when they come back to let them know what happened. >> i was listening to your book on an audio. where some of the abilities of the saboteur? >> order the abilities and capabilities incapacities? >> a very high functioning student that can try to win the game sincerely and is of two mines but can destroy it sincerely. mostly what happens is appear to be wise enough to

create problems that make the game more interesting were difficult and more challenging but all at the same time with the same mind try their best to solve all problems they are given and the problems they create some art impossible but the best saboteurs to do that i will not give away too many of the tricks but in the film "world peace and other 4th-grade achievements" cater and realized they were about to catch up with him and they were getting close for the clues were coming out he did not want to give up the role and let it go. what did he do? he said they will find out who i am and what can i do to misdirect their investigation? so he called in a missile strike on his own cabin.

incredible decision that immediately we directed suspicion for himself he was brought to trial but they're dismissed because nobody could believe he could do such a thing. an amazing strategy and a sacrifice that you made for the good of the game. the tools are here but also sometimes the girls can be as seven to work as well. a few mercenaries may be a stinger missile or icbm but mostly it is up here. at the end of the game our saboteurs always cheered and celebrated. you think they would be bad but they're so happy. you made a harder and more interesting. thank you.

it is odd to see the person that is trying to destroy them because of their cleverness, that person is celebrated in the game. how old are you? >> [inaudible] >> fill up the application after this and we will see what you can do. [laughter] any of their questions? >> you answer my question but is there any talk about making became part of curriculum? >> yes actually part we have been approached, since the film came out in 2006 what is the first thing is that kelly put this on line to make a video game? i have been against them for the longest time. i thought no no. it is visceral, in-your-face, a

kinetic, spatial, tactile experience why would we take all that away to put you with strangers? it is based on relationships of course, the gave the -- the game may have four but is about achieving peace in designed to fail so some of the first interest is to manufacture the game to sell it. but no. if we do that nobody will buy it because i want that one that will fail massively. give me that game we did not thank you have much with sales for we have been approached by game design companies and engineers to sink how we could augment the physical game with videoconferencing and there has been quite a bit of

interest from norway and austria in particular, tie one as well and china to share the exercise. trying to do in the authentic way with the essential elements. with the legacy so after i am gone with its original form the be will be better someday also. >> this begs the question if a group of fourth graders can achieve world peace would other possibilities for those of us who are young at heart? [laughter] >> yes. don't we wish? the most amazing thing each young person could be the answer to any problem. we don't know.

we cannot afford to lose one single person or right in the bay off. for those young in heart like high-school students enough played the game, they play the most amazing is a sophisticated game and i have no doubt that his school students and college students could save the world. i have seen it -- to it i have seen him do it that have left no obstacle or no stone unturned and time and again they found reasonable and practical ways but they simply refused to not. matter how fears the fiction was a clever and interlocking problems they will not stop until they achieve it. gives me hope that with every child that comes along could be the next cure for cancer, alzheimer's, preside

nt, we never know. we have to make every possible effort for every possible child so they can helpless fix the mess that we left them. we have left him a huge problem. we have not fixed it. we don't have enough time ourselves superior giving them a huge burden and asking them to help us to save us and save themselves. so i hope the experts can take he did is hopeful that the united nations and the pentagon is looking at it and asking questions of fourth graders about what could do to make things better. i think we're about done for the evening. thank you for having me. also harcourt's publishing company the film, the documentary "world peace and other 4tad