tv Today in Washington CSPAN July 31, 2013 7:30am-9:01am EDT
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stuart delery -- b. todd jones was nominated in january. by march the committee required nomination materials that were received and made available to senator grassley and his staff with a plan legal hearing on mr. jones's nomination was delayed after the committee was notified of the complaint filed with the u.s. office of special counsel. chairman leahy intended to wait until after they finish their work, meant to be confidential, before holding this hearing. in late april after these allegations were unnecessarily made public the chairman decided to proceed so that b. todd jones could publicly defend his reputation. today's hearing was originally noticed a week ago, the ranking member's requested was postponed until today. last week osc notified the committee the underlying complaint against b. todd jones of management failures was closed due to insufficient evidence and the second
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allegations made of retaliation for raising the underlying management issues with b. todd jones as for that as senator grassley points of the parties agreed to mediation. that is the procedural status. part of it was dismissed. the other powered the parties have willingly agreed to mediation. as often happens in employee matters across the government. satisfied that the issues before the osc resolved chairman leahy determine the hearings should move forward eddie asks me to chair it. this past friday senator grassley notified the chairman he would invoke not very much used senate rule. as far as i know we haven't seen witnesses to be called in hearings involving nominees that are not at the cabinet level. he decided to invoke senate rules, outside witnesses testify at today's hearing. instead of saying no to that request the chairman agreed to that request. i personally called senator
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grassley sunday morning to let him know we have agreed to that request and we found our own witness. senator grassley said he didn't have time to give the witness. chairman leahy sought to accommodate the ranking member by offering to invite outside witnesses to come before the committee today and the witness wasn't ready. that is what the procedural status is of that particular allegation. the other thing i want to note, we all know that crime rates are affected by many things, work of police and prosecutors but many things. i will note as we look at the bigger picture mr. jones as u.s. attorney in minnesota 1998-2001, that would be his first term as county attorney, u.s. attorney under president clinton, the violent crime rate decreased 15% and so far during his second tenure which began in 2009 the fbi statistics show the violent crime rate has decreased 9%.
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i don't hold him responsible for those numbers. i just want to note because of the work that goes on between local, state, federal law enforcement in minnesota have major successes and tom who was appointed by president's george h. w. bush and his son george w. bush also serving two terms under republican presidents specifically rebutted the allegations in the former fbi letter and he said this. one year in minnesota is hardly long enough to learn how to shovel snow much less learn what mr. jones's reputation is among local state and federal law-enforcement officials. the special agent in charge of the office from 2007 to 2011 told the associated press he had a good relationship with the jones. we were in sync. didn't experience anything like the behavior described.
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when he had an issue jones was attentive and sensitive to it and responded to it. anyone involved in law enforcement knows there will be disagreements, there will be issues. people have different interpretations of decisions, there are outside forces at work. in this case todd jones was supervising tweet to major offices at the same time for two years and it is my belief the atf deserves a permanent head and i hope we can go forward with this hearing and the testimony. with that i will swear in the witnesses for the nominees. do you affirm the testimony you are about to give before the committee will be the truth, vol truth and nothing but the truth so help you god? thank you. we will start with mr. jones. >> good morning, madam chairroom, ranking member grassley and members of the committee. thank you for those generous
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introduction and the recitation of my entire professional career and for the chance to be here today to answer questions. i am honors to be considered as the president's nominee as the director of the bureau of alcohol and tobacco, firearms and explosives. permit me a moment to thank my family for their incredible love and support. you mentioned my oldest son anthony is here representing the family but my wife margaret is the tie that binds our family together. shea shouldered most of the burdens and joy is that come with raising five kids. she is in st. paul with my youngest son lucas who just graduated, finished his junior year of high school. my two daughters are there in st. paul. my youngest daughter monica graduated university of minnesota and is moving to seattle in the next week to start her career and her life.
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my oldest daughter stephanie is on home leave from teaching in nicaragua. so the core group is there in minnesota. my son michael, my other son michael is a graduate student in architecture in seattle and hopefully he will keep an eye on monica when she gets out there but as you mentioned my oldest son anthony is here. he works, lives here in d.c. and works at the house of representatives. we didn't get to see much of each other the first couple years of his life because i was deployed regularly in the marine corps but if you choose to approve this nomination, and any will find himself with a new roommate. over the years my family sacrifice the great deal to allow me to pursue a career in public service and that career began in 1977 when i was fortunate enough to do constituency work with senators hubert humphrey who keep a nice
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public-service in the best minnesota tradition and inspired me to follow that path. as was mentioned after graduating from law school at the university of minnesota i joined the united states marine corps and that was a decision that changed my life and made me the person you see sitting before you today. my formal leadership training began in the marine corps and while i joined to be a trial lawyer, much to margaret's chagrin i was so energized by the experience, challenges, spirit and camera area of basic training estate and infantry officer for my active duty time. during that time i learned the importance of concepts like unit cohesion, readiness and training and staying focused on the mission. the marines talk about leadership and beating people
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toward a common goal. in the end i learned it was not ever about me, it was about the team, it was about the unit. it was about the collective work together to attain that goal. i continue to employ those principles during the two times i have been u.s. attorney in the district of minnesota, a job it has been an honor and privilege to serve in and as the senator mentioned my team in minnesota tackled a variety of complex cases from the largest ponzi scheme to national security work investigating terrorist organization al shabaab. i continue to rely on those experiences in the current capacity as acting director of atf. when i came to atf in 2011 i found an agency in distress, poor morale and deny it--are and undermined the efforts of the majority of atf. these hard-working devoted public servants are committed,
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absolutely committed to the mission of professional law-enforcement. i listened to them for several months i was there. i learned a lot from them and i took firm immediate steps to address their concerns and the strategic needs of the bureau. i build a new leadership team appointing 22 special agents in charge, 23 headquarters executives, conducted top to bottom review of all atf policies and procedures and we overhaul 50 orders and directives and since my arrival i worked to refocus the bureau on its mission to combat violent crime and enhance public safety and i am proud to say the men and women at atf have responded with professionalism and dedication. you mentioned some of the recent events atf has been involved in from newtown to boston, from west texas to stockton, calif.. we will continue to do our job.
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should the senate confirm my appointment i look forward to meeting these men and women permanently and help them carry out this very important mission. i book forward to answering your questions. >> thank you very much. it looks like you have a happy family behind you. please start. >> thank you, madam chairwoman, ranking member grassley and members of the committee. i am deeply honored to appear before you today as the nominee to be assistant attorney general for the civil division and i thank you for your consideration. at the outset i thank the president for nominating me and the attorney general for his support. i do have a number of family members here today with the chair's invitation i would like to introduce them. >> please do. i can tell they are. >> first is my partner, richard. i would not be here without the support he has given me over the last 20 years since we were classmates in law school.
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in addition to being a great father he is a terrific lawyer and i have been improved by his intelligence, judgment, integrity and sense of justice. our children, michael and sebastian are the joys of my life and they are here today to say a little about how their government works. i thank them for doing that. and i owe a deep-to my parents for the firm foundation that they gave me. my father was an engineer who worked his entire career for louisiana power and light. he passed away in 1996 but a striking example for me of hard work, dedication and character and i miss him, but my mother, elizabeth towy is here along with her husband, mom was the first women's athletic director at tulane university and i watched as she built the program
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from the ground up and i kept those lessons in mind as i learned myself how to be a leader. both mom and harry are the children of people who were in public service. my grandfather in addition to serving in the army in world war i and world war ii was a real lawyer in the justice department for 30 years including in the civil division and so i am honored to be following in his footsteps. harry's father was a congressman from new jersey, a republican in the 1940s and 1950s. i also have my sister here, janet who is a schoolteacher in charlotte, n.c.. she made it here at 1:30 in the morning because of the storms. i am grateful she persevered to be here. one of perry's daughters, margaret, is here. she flew from her home in north carolina's help mom and harry get here today. i'm grateful to her for doing
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that. i have a number of other friends. i am touched they are here particularly my colleagues in the justice department. matt kucharwoman, it has been a real privilege to work with the talented and dedicated lawyers and staff of the civil division over the past year and it is an honor to be nominated to lead the now. the division's greatest resource is its people who come to work every day with a single-minded dedication to protecting the interests of the country and its citizens whether by defending government programs and a national security or safeguarding taxpayer funds from fraud or protecting the health and safety of all americans. if i am fortunate enough to be confirmed by will bring to this job a commitment to zealous advocacy in court on behalf of our nation, giving advice, candid advice, to hearing all sides of an issue with fairness
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and respect and perhaps most importantly to working tirelessly with our strong team of career professionals to defend and advance the interests of the united states. i thank you for your consideration and look forward to any questions you may have. >> thank you very much, stuart delery. senator durbin was here earlier and he is going to put some questions on the record because he has to go to a defense hearing that is important. senator koontz is going to try to return and others will be here. i will start with a question, explained your family to your son's especially, if the questions are devoted to your dad that doesn't mean it is a bad thing. mr stuart delery, any of us can read the job description of assistant attorney general for civil decision, division. having done his role on an interim basis how do you see your role, what are your primary
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responsibilities, what direction do you want to take the division? >> thank you for giving me a chance to talk about what the division does and they're really are two main roles. the civil division defend the government when it is sued, whether a constitutional challenge race to for many damages for breach of contract or personal liability. .. a powerful tool of the false
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claims act as well as other tools to pursue fraud against the government. last fiscal year we had a record recovery of more than, or just about $5 billion under the false claims act that i know senator grassley and other members of this committee have supported over the years. i'll continue to make that a priority if confirmed. finally, our work really to health and safety to pursuing cases like the one we brought a few months ago against executive of a peanut butter manufacturer because the salmon no outbreak. we take very scarcely our partnership on those issues with the fda and we'll continue to work to protect the safety of the food we eat, medicines, the toys children play with and the like. >> very good. thank you. we have three of the victims from the peanut butter outbreak were from minnesota, including a grandmother who one day just ate a piece of toast and the lobster. she was an incredible woman so i
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really thank you for going forward with that somewhat difficult case. thank you for doing that. mr. jones, as i noted the atf has not a department director since 2006. when the law was changed requiring a director to be senator from. i think senator german has either put in are talking about putting the building to put the fbi -- on to the fbi because we can't continue like this. it's not fair to you. it is not fair to the agency. one way we can show it is changes button from you as director. there are many reasons why the heads of certain agencies are made in from a by the senate and ones because what the individual to be fully accountable to congress and also the men and women who work at the agency. first i like to ask you why is it so important to the atf to have a confirmed full-time director? what will a confirmed director mean for the roughly 2300 agents of the atf? >> thank you for that question,
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senator, and i've given it a lot of thought. while i've learned over the almost two years, atf is a very resilient organization, and the our great public servants there. i think it's critical that they have a permanent director. having been twice confirmed by this body as united states senator, i know the organization is one that's really important. it has impacted morale. it does send a message not only to the employees within atf that they have been so long without a permanent director after having several actors over the last seven years, it does impact morale. i think it's also a fundamental question of good government. because as you mentioned, being a confirmed appointee does carry a certain amount of gravitas so you can be a more effective advocate for resources, so you can be accountable to this body
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and to the organization that you work with, and in this case the department of justice. decisiveness is a critical quality for anyone who's in a leadership position, but decisiveness with credibility i think is also absolutely critical, and a series of factors no matter how skilled, does diminish the credibility that you're going to have continuity of operations, the division is going to be sure and the mission will be accomplished. at its core it's good government to have a confirmed director at all the agencies in the executive branch their subject to senate confirmation. >> all of us on this committee had concerns about what happened during the "fast and furious" operation. you wouldn't acting directly -- director shortly after the "fast and furious" when whistleblowers came for. the president named you because he felt you the knowledge, experience, and leadership to
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put the atf back on the right path. and he tells the steps you've taken and the safeguards are put in place to make sure operations like that can't happen again and that any major operation is fully vetted up the chain of command? after something like "fast and furious" comes to light we all want to know what appropriate disciplinary action is being taken against the people who acted wrongly. could you also talk about the steps you've taken to discipline or terminate people involved? >> well, with respect to your first question, senator, i think it's important to note that the inspector general did do an extensive report and made recommendations and identify problems. when i arrived at atf in september of 2011, as i mentioned it wasn't agency very much in distressed, and the first thing i did was go to the phoenixville division and visit sort of the ground zero for a lot of the controversy that evolves. but one of the first things that i did was look at who was in position of responsibility.
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who was in leadership positions. and there's been a number of changes. none of the individuals who identified in leadership positions during the "fast and furious" incident are currently in place. we have come as i mentioned, 22 new special agents in charge. we have a number of assistant directors. six out of the eight assistant directors who helped me as a team lead atf our new. and all of them have experience as former special agents in charge. we are continuously in the process of implementing and following through and executing on many of the recommendations made in the ig's report. but we didn't wait for the ig's report to come out. we knew that there was a failure in leadership and oversight. one of the first things we did was issue and clarify our firearms transfer policy.
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with the underpinnings being the public safety always trumped investigators needs. we have reviewed our undercover order. we have reviewed our confidential informant order. we have instituted in continue to exercise a monitor case program but these are just some of the internal fixes. more than anything else i think it was important to keep the agencies i on what is underlying mission is, which is public safety. because atf play such a critical role within the department of justice in the fight against violent crime, in the explosives arena in the arson arena, and it's important that we do not have public safety suffer as a result of continuous critical examination. >> i would have one more question and then hope to keep my questions under 10 minutes, if senator grassley would do the same unsure we would have a second round so we can get
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others to ask questions. there have been questions raised about decreasing numbers of federal prosecutions in minnesota with respect to violent crimes, including getting, and drug offenses. when i was county attorney in hennepin county i worked closely with you and your predecessors, the of the u.s. attorneys, to make sure that we tackled the tough criminal cases but i also worked with your successors, including tom, to make sure made the most effective and efficient use of federal resources. i still remember after 9/11 as the u.s. attorney's office who is focused in minnesota having caught one of the terrorists in our state office terrorism type cases, and our office, accounting -- county attorney office start doing many more white collar cases. i did that working with the attorneys office. we took on significant more white-collar criminal prosecutions. so i understand how this can be this episode to be resources, and to be on the types of crime. gain, drug and gun cases were
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some of the areas i was focus on. i know they're important to use am you can address the concerns that have been raised and explain why some of the numbers out of the u.s. attorney's office may be down. is it a trend? is it an anomaly? is it something else? thank you. >> senator, i believe that the statistics that you cite only tell part of the story over the last several years. the department of justice in general, and in particular the district of minnesota, which is somewhat unique and that we cover the entire state ha then e have the full range of federal challenges. we've got indian country, where the border with canada, we have a major metropolitan center with all of the respective violent gun crime, gain, drug and financial fraud issues. it really has been a challenge in this period of diminishing
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resources, not the lack of resources is any excuse, to look and be smart about how we utilize those resources. as you well know, our partnership with our state counterparts, the 87 county attorneys in minnesota, is absolutely critical for us collectively to do our jobs. and what we've essentially done is looked at what uniquely federal issues that the state cannot handle, what are doj priorities like national security and indian country, and we have concurrent jurisdiction as in the gun and drug area we are making smart choices so that the worst of the worst, ma so that organization to deal in drugs, so that armed career criminals are a properly handled in federal court. over the last several years as you mentioned earlier, we have had a string of very complex cases that have gone to trial. tom matters, there's a try with frank going on right now.
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mortgage fraud cases, and, of course, our national security cases, two of which of those actually went to trial. so the folks in the district of minnesota u.s. attorney's office, both in the criminal and civil division, have been working very hard with a very active caseload. and our bottom line is we're focused on impact cases. we are focused on cases that augment what state and local prosecutors do, and we're focused on cases that fit within the priorities of the department of justice. and as a result, our overall numbers have dropped but we are making a difference. >> thank you very much. i will turn it over to senator grassley. >> madam chairman, before as questions there's a couple of things i want to clear up to your rebuttal to my statement. she's absolutely right that there's been six years without a confirmed head, but remember
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that it was two years after the president was elected before a nominee was even sent up here. so we can't confirm anybody that isn't sent up here. then when mr. traber was editor, the committee asked for additional information which was never provided. therefore, a never had a hearing. and, of course, if the committee asks for additional hearing, or additional information, and that information isn't given and you can't have a hearing without it, that obviously is either a nominee for the white house's fault. then mr. traber's nomination was withdrawn at the end of the last congress and mr. jones was nominated january 24, and we started talking about the hearing. in april. then there's one other point that i would make and that's in the garden to which he said, and
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it isn't enacted what you said, but i want to point out that when this goes osce and its initiation, there's a big difference between being resolved and the president, or the chairman in his letter to me saying it is result, because osc as i said in my statement has made very clear that it's not result. thank you, mr. delery, for speaking about false claims. because i ask every attorney general nominee, whatever they are in the department about it because i'm the author of the legislation, and i'm very glad to know that you're going to use it vigorously. mr. jones, you would not expect me to not be concerned about whistleblowers. i'm sure you know my reputation in that area.
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and not every whistleblower would necessarily be right, but every whistleblower is entitled to a hearing, either when they are personally affected and retaliated against, or in the case of somebody bringing information forward, they have to have that information considered. and i've come to the conclusion a long time ago that whistleblowers are about as respected in their organization as skunks are at a picnic. so i think they need a lot of consideration because they give us a lot of valuable information. on march 6, 2013, an employee of yours filed a complaint with special console alleging you personally undertook quote a prohibited personnel action unquote against him in retaliation for raising concerns
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about gross mismanagement and the u.s. attorney's office. this employee has 30 years of, as a federal employee, 24 of those years in the u.s. attorney's office in minnesota. the employee alleges that after bringing series concerns about mismanagement in the office to your attention he was suspended for five days without pay and involuntarily transferred to a new section in the office. the complaint also raises allegations about the appointment of an attorney to a supervisory position, despite concerns about her performance by federal and state law enforcement and judges on the federal bench. a special console wrote to us yesterday stating that the complaint was referred for investigation april of this year and that the investigation remains open with possibility of mediation. because of the majority schedule scheduled your hearing despite the fact that this investigation is pending.
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that's why i bring this matter up. you were quoted in the star tribune as saying, i'm looking for to meeting with the committee and answering all the questions. based on that i'm going to assume that you answer the questions i ask you today. mr. oswald, first question, mr. oswald former special agent in charge fbi minneapolis wrote a detailed letter is genuine alleging he mismanaged the office and had quote atrocious professional reputation within the federal law enforcement. a 20 year, four year veteran of assistant u.s. attorney filed a complaint with the office of special counsel against you which corroborates the account. have you been edited by the office of special counsel? and if so, when? >> senator, to answer your last question first, i am aware that the osc has requested information from our office in
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the district of minnesota. because those complaints are confidential as a matter of law i have not seen the substance of the complaint, nor can i comment on the. i've learned from your statement today and i knew before i came here this morning about the nature and substance of the complaint. i can assure you that i've always taken very seriously the duty my office has to follow all the laws and regulations, not engage in prohibited personnel practice, and to be very sensitive to the issues surrounding those that you so vigorously advocated for over the years with respect to whistleblower protection. >> so you have not been edited in by special counsel. >> i have not. >> other than the fbi special agent in charge and the assistant u.s. attorney who filed the complaint to the office of special counsel, are you aware of any other individuals in your office who raised similar concerns? if so, who? >> i am not aware of any other
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complaints, your honor -- senator. this is like a courtroom. [laughter] >> i feel -- >> i feel like a defendant. [laughter] spent and as a farmer i feel honored. have you taken any adverse personnel actions against anyone who complained about how you're managing the office? >> you know, senator, that's, thank you for the question. i have had the opportunity to be in a management position both in the public and private sector. i have always tried to approach that position of responsibility with respect for those that i work for in a collaborative nature. but always with expectations, and i have -- >> i think the answer to my question is you don't feel you take it any adverse action against anyone who complained
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about how you're managing the office. are you aware of the anonymous complaint filed july 20, 2012, signed by quote employees of the u.s. attorney's office for the district of minnesota, end of quote? and those employees wrote -- well, are you aware -- let me go on. those employees wrote, quote, since he became u.s. attorney here in minnesota he has instituted a climate of fear, has pushed employees out of the office and dismissed employees wrongly, violated the hiring practice of doc and put in place an orwellian style of management that continues to polarize the office, end of quote. did you at any time learn who these individuals were? did you take any adverse personnel action against been? >> senator, i recently saw a copy of the anonymous letter.
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again, i have not taken adverse actions against anyone that i have worked with. i was quite surprised by the nature of the allegations. whether it's at ats or the u.s. attorney's office, in both situations i came into a less than perfect environment and i, quite frankly had been an agent of change, and change is hard sometimes for individuals to deal with, and i've always had a focus on doing the right thing for the right reasons. sometimes folks are not happy about the direction the overall. >> i'm including in that statement about adverse personnel action, and unwanted retaliatory transfer. does that change your answer? >> again, senator, i'm not familiar with the osc complaint, and i'm at somewhat of a disadvantage with the facts. i can say that privacy act
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considerations do fit into the picture. i have a certain awareness about disciplinary processes, but again, it has never been my practice to engage in retaliatory employment practices. >> will you answer the complaints about the assistant u.s. attorney when, because that's why you're here today. how are we supposed to ask about these allegations if we can't ask you? >> well, quite frankly, senator, i'm at a disadvantage with the facts. there's a process in place. i've not seen the osc complaint. i do know that our office working with the executive office, u.s. attorneys, is in a process of responding to the issues that you've talked about this morning, but i have not had the opportunity to either be interviewed or have any greater
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knowledge about what the osc complaint is. >> well, you know, i'm kind of uncomfortable asking these questions because we should've been moving forward with this hearing. but the chairman said this was the opportunity for us to have this interview with you and to get these questions answered. and, of course, you agree to to answer all the questions, so i would ask that you answer them. but if you don't answer, that's the way it has to be. do we want to go to the senator from connecticut? >> thank you, because he is something else. i appreciate that, ma senator grassley. i also want to put in the record the letters from law enforcement in support of todd jones, including the fraternal order of police, the international association of chiefs of police, former u.s. attorneys including the republican appointee under both presidents bush's, members of congress, minnesota county attorneys association, several minnesota county attorneys from
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across our state, the national district attorneys association, several former assistant u.s. attorneys and the former magistrate judge for the district of minnesota. i did want to read one of the letters into the record from beth hill to todd jones. ms. hill's son, his wife, and her 15 year old daughter were murdered by two men in a brutal home invasion in st. paul, minnesota, in 2007. unfortunately, the case lingered for two years when mr. jones returned to the is attorneys office in 2009, ms. hill contacted him and asked him to review the case. mr. jones' office investigated the case and obtain convictions against the perpetrators. in 2011, both of the men were sentenced to life in prison on three counts of murder in her letter she says quote in my son's keepsake box, i had a handwritten note that you sent me in response to my plea to you for justice for them. you didn't promise me anything
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but a commitment to review my case when you came into the office. your note gave me hope, and the strength to continue to fight for justice for my children. she wrote to wish him well and success in his new leadership role at ats writing, when a job is like you can go on and the odds seem stacked against you, think about mothers like me who will rely on you to help stop the senseless violence, and move this country forward. i thought those were pretty powerful words, and i will also include a letter on the record. we also have letters of support, as i mentioned, for mr. delery from a former justice department officials from previous administrations, both republican and democratic, that will also be entered into the record. way that i turn it over to senator blumenthal. >> thank you, madam chairwoman, and thank you both for being here today. thank each of you for your public service, particularly mr. jones, your service in the marine corps as well as in united states attorneys office in minnesota and, mr. delery,
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for your service in the department of justice as well as in private litigation. mr. jones, as you well know, probably better than any of us are, there's been a lot of debate about the ways to promote more rustic asian under existing law that is designed to prevent gun violence. and even for some of us who strongly favor improvements to that law, the question is what can we do to promote more rigorous and vigorous enforcement of existing laws that relate to either a legal purchases aren't illegal possession of firearms? and my own view is that inadequate resources are a major reason for the lack of sufficient prosecutions, or the failure to increase the number.
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and i would like you to comment on what you do as the reasons, or the ways that we can improve that rate of prosecution. >> well, two things, senator. one is unique and vibrant and healthy ats. part of the reason i'm here for this process is because they need a confirmed director. they've never had one. and for all the reasons we previously mentioned, that is an impediment to get stability, direction and guidance -- >> and i heard her testament and i agree that a confirmed leader is absolutely essential to provide direction and vision and the kind of basic leadership here but in addition to that. >> well, the atf is not completely healthy. its biggest challenge is its human capital. it's been subject of some federal agencies to the ebb and flow of hiring. one of our biggest challenges is
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in the next five years, the attrition am a our special agent community. a special agents are at the core of our criminal investigative processes. and because of the mandatory retirement age for federal law enforcement we are going to have nearly one-third of our special agent community become retirement eligible. the resources and the opportunity to bring on new special agents, which does take time, hasn't been sufficient for one-to-one replacement. >> so what is the median age of your agents speak with our special agent community is one of the more senior in federal law enforcement. i don't know the median age, but it is a very experienced work force. and because of an age of the work that atf does in arsons and explosives and investigations, it takes time to develop that expertise. we call it the brain drain, and we are aggressively, and even in
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the current environment, looking at that knowledge transfer. but that human capital for continuity and maintaining our current status and abilities is probably one of the biggest challenges we face over the next several years. >> would resources help you to attract more qualified potential agents, special agents at the atf? >> you know, that helps but i think some of the other constraints that we've been operating under with hiring freeze, with some of our abilities to be, schedule b. for examples to bring on agents. there's a lot of talent out there and there's a lot of talent inside the bureau them about what we need to do is very quickly match that up so that we don't diminish our capacity. >> atf as you know has a strong history of responding to high
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profile incidents and investigation that you did in sandy hook. and her how she can talk about the atf's role under your leadership at sandy hook, which was particularly important to my state of connecticut, and to me having spent a lot of time there with the community. >> well, the tragic school shooting at newtown at sandy hook was a seminal event for us personally and for atf to atf of course is one of several federal law enforcement components, and to our immediate response in addition to bringing agents from around the region down there was, of course, to ensure the safety of the school and the community. but more importantly, to work with other federal and state, importantly state, the state police and the local police department as is our practice to focus in on the firearms issues. there's an examination of the
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federal firearms licensee that mrs. lanza purchase of the weapon from. there was initial forensic work done with the weapons, but always in partnership with the connecticut state police, with the local police department, and with our brother agency at the federal bureau of investigation. >> i want to thank your agency and the special agents who were there, for not only the record but also the sensitivity that they demonstrated from the very first hours that they arrived there and begin interviewing everyone involved for potential firearms violations, including some of the licensed firearms dealers in the area and others who might have knowledge working very close with our state police, who led the investigation. the investigation is ongoing, as you know, and begin my thanks to the special agents who were there and to your agency. thank you, madam chairman. >> thank you very much. senator flake. >> thank you. acting director jones, in answer
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to the previous question, you stated that none of the individuals in leadership during "fast and furious" are now in place. what does that mean? were they removed? just gone by virtue of attrition? what does that mean? >> what it means, senator, is that folks, individuals who were primarily in the executive service have either retired or resigned, or have left the bureau of alcohol, tobacco, firearms and explosives. the personnel processes can be somewhat dicey. the privacy act issues sort of precluded from giving you a more fulsome description, but from the former acting director down to the group supervisor in the phoenix field of vision, they are no longer in positions of responsibility and leadership within atf.
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was anyone disciplined? >> yes. >> are you at liberty to share who and when? >> not really, because of the privacy -- i'm being very dicey. we can respond. once i get some clearance, i'm being very careful and very respectful of the privacy issues that are involved with making disclosures with some specificity, but there was discipline imposed throughout the chain of individuals involved here. >> well, when you at liberty to show that, we certainly need to know that. can you tell us what disciplinary action was taken, without revealing names of? >> we have a range of options internally, ranging from termination from employment, which would then be subject to a different appeal process to do
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motions, from your grade down to moving people the nonsupervisory positions. >> and which of those were taken to the section? >> i think the combination of all of them. >> so, termination? >> i think the full range of our disciplinary tools were utilized in handling the issues that arose as a result of the ig report and our own internal affairs examination. >> so, from termination to the notion to removal? >> one of the challenges, center, to be quite candid with you is because of the leadership position, supervisor nature of the decisions, there were individuals who are eligible for retirement, and so in some instances the disciplinary process was cut off by the fact that individuals did submit
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resignations. >> is that describe all those who were -- >> not all of them spent some of them actually were demoted or terminated because some individuals are on the disc winner process that opted -- on the disciplinary process that opted if they were eligible. >> it's important for us to have that information and for what can be shared to be shared. as i can tell you, particularly coming from arizona, which was the scene for a lot of this, there's a lot of mistrust, and people don't think that anybody is held to account at any time. and it's difficult for any of us to just say with any a surety that they were without this kind of information. so we'll be following up, but to the extent that information can be put out in terms of disciplinary action, honoring
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any privacy rules that we have, but i think it's important to do so. with regard, let me just bring up one case, doing your tenure as acting director of atf there was disagreement between the reno atf that was alluded to by senator grassley. disagreement between the reno atf and the u.s. attorney's office for the district of nevada, that resulted in the atf not being able to sit cases for prosecution for a full year, 2011-2012. renewed gazette journal a sort of the atf's lack of action on this issue constitute a public safety threat, yet when the issue was brought to your attention, atf whistleblowers said that you mentioned you had bigger things to worry about and it wasn't until there was a letter from senator grassley this issue was addressed and action was taken. but then it was just, as i understand, to transfer agents to other offices, which left the reno office understaffed.
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was this issue handled properly, in your view? >> this was yet again one of those issues that was what i call my inheritances. let me assure you that the public safety was never at risk in the district of nevada. and as a u.s. attorney, i was very dismayed when i first heard of a disconnect between the federal prosecution office and atf. one of our challenges has been making sure that we have accountable leadership and oversight. so i can assure you and the public in nevada that we've got new leadership in the separatist the field of vision. we have very good communications with the special agent in charge, very good communications with the reno office which is a satellite in nevada, from the las vegas tick we have shifted agents as i mentioned earlier. one of our resources, challenges where we're putting our limited
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resources based on the needs in a violent crime fraud. we currently have two full-time and soon to be three agents in reno. we've enhanced the working relationship and we're on a good path in reno to fix whatever concerns historically existed there. >> so you believe you moved swiftly enough on that? >> yes, i do. >> thank you. >> thank you. senator franken. >> thank you, senator klobuchar, for sharing this and for this evening. i apologize for getting here a little a. i've been in the health -- the health committee where we're doing the markup for the elementary and secondary education act three authorization, so i'm going to also have to be leaving. but first, mr. jones, i would like to thank you for your service to the state of minnesota. i know senator klobuchar feels the same way. after taking the bar exam, you
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didn't join the law firm. he joined the united states marines. and you've been serving our country in for his capacities, much of your christensen that i just want to start out by thanking you for that. also want to take this opportunity to acknowledge the many brave atf agents who responded courageously and professionally to the bombing at the boston marathon, and to the recent texas plant explosion. mr. jones, your nomination to be atf permit director arose out of a shooting at sandy hook, but these other recent events remind us that the atf's role extends beyond gun issues. mr. delery, thank you for meeting with me. i enjoyed our discussion a few weeks ago. congratulations on your nomination as well.
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you have done some tremendous work at the department on issues like marriage equality and holding credit rating agencies accountable. for their role in the financial collapse, so thank you for being here to answer the committee's questions. on the right to my questions now. mr. jones, since you are named atf's acting director in august 2011 you somehow manage to run that bureau while also serving as u.s. attorney in minnesota. so you basically been asked to do full-time jobs at once. if you're confirmed you will be able to devote your full attention to atf. that's important. we've been without a permanent atf director for about seven years. can you explain what it would mean for atf to find have a permanent, confirmed director in place? >> thank you for the question, senator. and i think it's absolutely critical. as i mentioned earlier, i think at its core it's a good government issue.
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not only does it send a positive message to the men and women within the bureau of alcohol, tobacco, firearms and explosives, but it sends the right message to the industry that we regulate, and your state and local law enforcement partners that there is a permanent person that has been given the stamp of approval to lead the organization going forward. that hasn't diminished really over the last seven years with the men and women in atf performing their job. but it has been a challenge to have the change in direction. when i was in the service, i remember leaders that i had that were good, and the lessons taken away from them. but just as importantly, i remember the leaders that were bad and the lessons that were taken away from them. but having that steady hand on the tiller back and share with
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the men and women at atf, the vision, mission, the execution to help keep the american public safe in those areas where we have jurisdiction i think it's absolutely critical. >> thank you. mr. jones, atf works closely with state and local law enforcement authorities to investigate arsons, bombings, gun crimes, and acts of terrorism. i've heard from some minnesota law enforcement officials who are concerned about the budget cuts from the sequester, and that they could hamper this type of collaborative work. what it sequestration is impact on atf? >> specifically with atf, because it has been somewhat underresourced, we as an organization are resilient. but it will hurt.
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the president's proposed 2014 budget i think, i believe, it gets us on the path of being healthy with the anticipated worst-case scenario from the sequester, potential sequester cuts, you are cutting bone. you are cutting bone and you are in keeping i believe our ability to be as effective as we have been, as lean as we have been over the last four or five years. >> thank you. my time is just about at the would it be okay if i ask one more question, madam chair? richard jones, i was disappointed that the senate was unable to pass the mansion-to me a minute under current law so they can't pass a background check by a gun simply can go to a gun show -- manchin-toomey. or go to class -- the manchin-toomey amendment would expand the background check system to cover commercial gun sales but i've heard from a lot of minnesotans who support the
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proposal, regardless of their views on other aspects of the president's gun violence prevention initiative. this committee heard a lot of testimony from law enforcement leaders who said that the background check saved the lives. what are your thoughts on this? >> i believe that the background check system that is currently in place, which since 1998 had kept legal fire arms out of the hands of nearly one and a half million bad guys has been effective. is there room for improvement? yes. and we do with the current system? we have. i follow with some interest the debate and will defer to this body, and congress generally, to do what you do with respect to expanding, or not expanding,
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background checks. i can tell you that the current system is very effective in working within the limits that it is totally working. but there's always room for improvement, including tightening up what could be characterized as the graymarket of firearms because of course the background check only applies to those who choose to go to licensed firearms dealers to purchase or attained against. >> thank you. thank you, madam chair. >> senator grassley will go for five more minutes and then we go to senator schumer and then senator cruz. >> are since you said you can't offer any other answers to questions on the office of special counsel complaints, i'll go do something that you should have heard about, the letter from the fbi official, letter to the committee. did you hear of complaints about your office by the former
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special agent in charge of fbi office, mr. oswald? >> the answer to your question, senator, is no, and i was quite shocked when i saw a copy of that letter. because my belief during the one year that mr. oswald was a special agent in charge of the minneapolis field of vision, my perception was that we had a professional working relationship. so i was very surprised when that letter was submitted to the senate. >> in 2000 after you wouldn't after you're confirmed, did you remove the chief of the narcotics and violent crime section of u.s. attorney's office? that was one of the allegations that mr. oswald made. >> in 2009, when i became a u.s. attorney for the second time, i spent the first month talking to every single assistant united states attorney in the office. i received several resignations from individuals have been serving in supervisory roles,
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and as every new united states attorneys prerogative is, i formed a leadership team that remains in place and has been very effective in helping move the district board with the goals and objectives of both the district and the department of justice. >> so did you remove the chief of the narcotics and violent crimes section of that office? >> i made management changes when it came into office for the second time in august and september of 2009. >> did you remove that person? >> did i remove that person? >> the chief of -- >> i received the resignations of most of the supervisory, as is a common practice when i became u.s. attorney. >> you did appoint a new chief to the section? >> i did.
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>> how did you know the individual you appointed chief to the section? >> how did i know them? >> how did you know that person for that section, narcotics and violent crime section. >> i know many of the ausa's. i've known over 20 years in that office. so i know individuals a reputation and i know individuals personally. >> did she have previous management experience? >> in terms of -- who are you speaking of in particular, sender? i do want to engage in guesswork. if the question is did an individual that remains as our narcotics and violent crime chief assistant u.s. attorney carol kaiser have previous management experience, i believe the answer to that is yes. she's a very experienced
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prosecutor from the northern district of georgia where she was and ausa, doing asset forfeiture. before that she was 80 called counties state prosecutor in georgia -- a dekalb county. and was brought into his attorneys office prior to my arrival under the previous administration. and so she was very experienced and had some management experience before making a the deputy chief for narcotics and violent crime. spent i think it is senator schumer next and then we will go to senator cruz but i just want to follow-up on one question since he was asking, senator grassley's asking about management. before your u.s. attorney, who was the u.s. attorney before that? >> there was a two year. no, nearly two-year period where frank mcgill, not judging the gale was the interim u.s. attorney but the prior presidential appointed senate confirmed united states attorney
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was racial policy spent what happened to her? >> this is a very good of challenges for the office and eventually she resigned as u.s. attorney. and she was appointed or was involved with the attorney general gonzales was in and then one of the first acts to clarify the record with attorney general the case of a man was actually coming to i would just like the record reflect that to get the names of people that could take over for an interim basis. so when you and one of my suggestions was mr. mckeel. and so when you took over the office it was only two years after this turmoil as you described it which made the front page of many newspapers in the country, is that correct? >> that's correct. >> thank you. senator schumer. >> thank you. for some want to thank you, director jones, for your service both in u.s. attorney's office and not as acting director of atf. you have had a long, distinguished career.
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you were passed unanimously for u.s. attorney by this committee a few years ago, and now, of course, it's taken a long time to move your, to get your nomination made, approved i this committee and by the senate. and so i would like to first say that i think having a vacancy at this agency is a big mistake. such an agency has to have leadership to provide direction to many employees who work here and keep americans safe. so let me ask you this question. what would happen to the fbi without a director? don't you think that that could be used to say -- could be used by the terrorists to say it's -- if we had for years and acting director of the fbi? i do. i just want to know your opinion. >> it's sort of comparing apples to oranges, because the fbi has always been part of the
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department of justice but it's only been 10 years since atf has been part of the department of justice but that's only been since 2006 at a director of has been subject to senate confirmation. so the analogs are not quite right, but to your point, that continuity and leadership has been absolutely essential. when i left government service in 2001 and when i came back in 2009, knowing 9/11 happened in the interim, the federal bureau of investigation was not the same organization that i knew when i left after serving as u.s. attorney before. much of that, and i've known mr. miller for a long time, much of that is because they have continuous, outstanding leadership over a long period of time, which has allowed things to structurally settle and for them to stay focused on those missions that are in their bailiwick. >> look, it's my you have a lack of an atf director signals the same thing. we don't have the continuity,
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gun trafficking, crime, kind of things atf does that's vitally important. and it's not good to have one, to have a vacancy for so long. and i would hope that your confirmation would be moved. i'm not directing this at any particular person, but somehow it seems in agencies when people don't like what the agency does, nlrb, epa, d.c. circuit. we somehow get vacancies there and they are blog for a very long period of time. and i would hope that would change. i would hope that would change. your record is exemplary, and you approved i this body unanimously as the u.s. attorney. and i would just hope we could move forward with you. i have is few specific question. i know my time is running out. the undetectable firearms act that deals with 3-d guns expires
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at the end of issue. first i want to commend your agency working with tsa and secret service to keep us up-to-date on this. when the law was passed there were very few guns that could be brought undetected through a metal detector. now that's changed. art the guns that fire at least one shot that can successfully be brought through a metal detector, the gun itself, these 3-d guns with pratt plastic parts? the only know they would need is a little spring and they're not detectable in our metal detectors, is that fair to say? >> our branch working with the secret service and with tsa and the fbi and other law enforcement organizations is in the process of testing variations of the 3-d gun. and some other components that are somewhat troublesome, but the fundamental material for that, that being fairest traits of polymer, those naked undetectable without medical
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components. >> do you think we have to reauthorize the undetectable firearms act? would your agency be prepared to siis that some recommendations f any changes are needed? >> we are always available to provide technical guidance and advice, given our expertise. and i think that the evolving technology that underlies 3-d printing on a variety of fronts certainly generates a sense of urgency, particularly since the undetectable firearms act ends at the end of this year for this body to examine this in a public safety context. >> once again, my time is expiring. i want to thank you for your service to i want to thank you for continuing under very difficult circumstances. i want to thank you for your very calm demeanor in this hearing as well. >> thank you. >> and we hope that continue to senator cruz. >> thank you, madam chairman.
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mr. jones, thank you for being here. you are a currently setting united states attorney. you previously served as chairman of the attorney general's advisory committee as acting director of atf. you are perhaps uniquely situated to discuss the obama administrations priorities and the record concerning gun prosecution. as i would like to ask you a question. is it a priority for the obama and justice department to prosecute felons and teachers who attempts to illegally purchase firearms? >> senator, thank you for that question. one of the priorities of the department of justice has always been, during my second tenure as u.s. attorney, protecting the american public from violent crime, including violent firearms crimes. >> is that a yes? >> that's a yes. >> would you describe it as a
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high priority? >> it is one of the major priorities. >> so a major priority. >> yes. >> i guess i would then ask you to reconcile the comment that it's a high priority. with the data. and in particular, in 2010, out of or you thousand 321 felons and fugitives who attempted to illegally purchase firearms, the department of justice prosecuted only 44 of them. 44 out of over 48,000. and at least for me, i have difficulty reconciling those hard facts with the assertion you have made that it is a high priority of the obama justice department to prosecute felons and fugitives who tried to illegally purchase firearms. >> during fiscal year 2012, senator, the department of justice did approximately 85,000 federal criminal cases involving defendants, and one out of seven involved firearms offenses.
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the nic system does generate hits who are people are potentially edited and you're correct in that the number of folks who are prosecuted federally for what has been going to lying and trying is a small number. by the number does not tell the story about what the department has done with armed career criminal's. >> with respect, my question wasn't about armed career criminal. my question was whether it was a priority to prosecute felons and fugitives who tried to illegally buy firearms. this data focuses exactly on that that's what i wanted come you could've said no its not not a priority. and i would suggest that the data demonstrate it is not a priority of the obama justice department to prosecute felons and fugitives. in my view, that's completely unacceptable. you disagree? do you think prosecuting just 44 out of over 48,000 felons and fugitives the tried and legally buy guns, you think that's an
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acceptable allocation of prosecutorial resources? >> prosecutorial resources are thin, and there's a number of issues the u.s. attorneys across the country deal with, ranging from ashes pretty financial frauds, and we have tough decisions to make. the reality is as a first line prosecutor and some new exercises at their discretion on a regular basis is given the choice between doing a line and a trying case, which we've not done in minnesota, and doing -- >> so your office -- >> we have not done a line and trying case spend your office has prosecuted zero felons and fugitives who have tried to illegally purchase firearms? >> we have not -- >> is that a yes? >> we've done over one of 50,000 in possession case they were done straw purchaser cases. on the spectrum of prosecutions that u.s. attorneys into, lying and trying cases both because of the dedication of resources and the potential deterrent impact and the sentence that will be involved are not commonly
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involved, which is underlying that 44 figures that you cited earlier, senator. >> mr. jones, i have to admit i find it remarkable that you testify to this committee that it is a quote major priority of the department of justice to prosecute felons and fugitives who attempted to illegally purchase firearms, and then you respond to this committee that it is an acceptable allocation of prosecutorial resources to prosecute just 44 out of over 48,000 even more astonishingly, you informed of this committee that your prosecuted zero. my question to you is, are there other things you would describe as major priorities of the department of justice that at the same time your chosen to prosecute zero cases? enforcing the so-called major priorities? >> with all due respect to send it, just so the record is good, major priority of this department of justice is
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protecting the american public from violent crime, including violent gun crime. i just want to make sure that's clear so that what my testimony is is not twisted into something that it's not. and your question, sir, was -- >> are there any other so-called major priorities on which you prosecuted zero cases? >> we've made our decision with our resources. priority number one is national security. in minnesota we have made major efforts on that front with al-shabaab. we have a major efforts on protecting our committee from violent crime, including gun crime. we have made major efforts protecting the safety of people's nest eggs in financial fraud. so we have a smorgasbord of decisions that we are making as all of our work has been consistent with the priorities of this department of justice. >> i would note you chose not to answer my question. i just want to have one final question with the chairman's
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indulgence. which is that the crassly cruise legislate that was introduced on the floor of the senate to receive a majority of votes in the senate, 52 senators, including nine democrats, it was the most bipartisan of all of the comprehensive gun legislation introduced, it provided funding for prosecuting felons and fugitives who attempt to illegally purchase firearms. because in my judgment and the judgment of the majority of the senate, it is utterly unacceptable for this justice department to refuse to prosecute felons and fugitives who attempt to illegally purchase firearms. in your role as acting director of the atf, or as u.s. attorney, did you support the grassley-cruz legislation and do you support the legislation? >> i am not the moyer with the specifics of that legislation, -- i am not familiar with the specifics of that legislation and i'm not in a position to answer because i'm not familiar with the legislation. >> very well. thank you.
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>> thank you santa cruz. i wanted to include a few things on the record. first of all, discussion here just took place about prosecutions of cases. and i discussed earlier how crime rates are very important. and, in fact, we can achieve into a lot of things. but i would note that the crime rate in the state of texas, the violent crime rate, is twice the rate, santa cruz, the violent crime rate in the state of texas is twice that in the state of minnesota. between 1991-2011, during many of those years you woul was the. attorney in the state, mr. jones. that data i have here is that the minnesota violent crime rate in 2011 was a little over 200 per 100,000 inhabitants. these are fbi statistics, and the violent crime rate in texas was about 400. i also have the crime rates of every member of the committee that if you. i thought it was just interesting to look at, and i
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would note that the only two states that have lower crime rates per 100,000 have inhabitants than minnesota are the states of utah, unfortunately senator hatch isn't here, and the state of vermont. was again there are many things that contribute to crime rates, i would point out that this idea that somehow during your term that work is being done just is not supported by these numbers. i would put that on the record but i also would put on the record the fact that we have many people here from law enforcement in this room, in support of you, mr. jones, first of all jim pastor of the executive director of the fraternal order of police. we have the international association of chiefs of police arrested by james make men and director state association of chiefs of police. we also the prince george's county police, chief macaw represent the international association of chiefs of police. with washington, d.c. metropolitan police department
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command staff representative of chief captain landry. we have a park police chief john evans, prince william county police chief stephen hudson. we are the maryland state police represented by commander david wirral on behalf of superintendent marcus bent up with that i will turn it over to senator coons. >> thank you, madam chair the and i, too, am pleased you about the support for the nominee from the fob and many other police and professional law-enforcement organizations. mr. delery, thank you for your presence here today. i look forward to your service. forgiving but my question also focus on acting director jones. i suspected that a more comfortable confirmation hearing then perhaps you might have stated i would not a mr. delery's young sons have been attentive to the entire questioning of mr. jones. most appreciated spectacle he approached the -- >> particularly empresa.
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someone before coming to the senate had the responsibility for a local law enforcement agency to tell me about your perspective on the boards of collaboration and information sharing between federal, state and local law enforcement. if you would tell us something about your experience in the miami undercover investigation and that it strengthens that extends from minnesota and now the atf spent thank you for the question. and i think that one of the strengths that i discovered over the last 20 or so months is acting director is the reinforcement of my belief that there are outstanding working relationships with atf and state and local law enforcement. it's absolutely critical given the mission that atf has on the arson front, which is oftentimes understated and under known. but absolutely critical expertise and that, of course, has us with close working relationships with state and
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locals. and on the violent crime, particularly violent gang and gun crime front, we have nearly 600 task force officers that work with atf special agent around the country that we could not do that work without that collaboration and that cooperation. so our relationship with state and locals is absolutely critical, and we have always valued that relationship because we cannot get it done without that level of work. with respect to miami, it's still an ongoing prosecution now, that it was an excellent example of a number of operations, surges, undercover storefronts that we have engaged in as atf that took nearly 95 violent criminals off the streets in miami gardens. some of them went state, some of them went federal. and over 200 weapons.
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and it was a collaboration, again not only with state and locals, but with her sister agency, the dea. >> some have -- some concerns have been raised about the magnum case. as u.s. attorney for the digit of minnesota, who was your client? who we represent and several? >> the department of justice represents the united states in courts around the country both in civil and criminal matters. so the client agency in that matter was hud. in making litigation decisions on behalf of the united states, in your view, is it ethical and appropriate to take into account not only the judgment of an agency to enforce response really but also the consequences of the litigation decisions that might impact the broader ability of the government to enforce civil rights statutes? is that your be? >> that is my view, and i've expressed that before in
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sessions with senator grassley's staff. >> speak if you would about whistleblowers. the protection, defense and other concerns of whistleblowers is something that was of real privacy for me and my local comic service. some characterizations of communications internally within the atf have been made to suggest that you've attempted to suppress whistleblowers come at a wanted to give you an opportunity to speak to that, to answer a concern as to whether or not you led the atf as acting director in a way that suggested that you would welcome our support whistleblowers or the country. >> you know, thank you for giving me an opportunity to again reinforce and sort of dismiss a misperception that i have engaged in conduct that suppresses whistleblower rights. nothing could be further from the truth. i have represented whistleblowers in private practice. some of my most satisfying
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experiences have been in the representations of those who put themselves in the position of being whistleblowers. and i know firsthand from my former clients how difficult that can be in terms of your perception internally and the challenges on you personally. i have the utmost respect for both the underpinnings and the purpose of whistleblower protections. it is again a fundamental good government effort, and it is absolutely critical to us doing our jobs effectively as public servants with responsibility for public agencies. >> a lot of the challenges that exist at the atf and you are responsible for addressing or cleaning up when you begin acting director were in part of a result of an ongoing operation that came to light because of whistleblowers. do we have a commitment from you that if confirmed you will
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continue this view of welcoming and supporting whistleblowers within the agency as appropriate in order to ensure that this good government practice is a part of the atf going forward to? >> you definitely have my assurance, the inspector general's report exemplifies the importance that whistleblowers pay in the "fast and furious" issue. we have since i've been there and enhanced our arm buds program internally. we have strengthened our relationship with the doj ig and their ombudsman program. and any misperception that i do not believe in open channels of mutation and respect for whistleblower protections. i hope has been and will continue to be diminished. >> thank you for testament, your service of, your service as a
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murray, your service as acting director but i appreciate your test one here today. mr. delery, anderson, congratulation as well spent thank you very much send. senator grassley. >> a common complaint i've heard within atf is that u.s. attorneys offices are unwilling to pursue straw purchasing charges. according to one account, you said of gun and drug cases quote we could do that all day. but we have chosen not to. because that's not the best use of our resources, end of quote. gun crime when yout toe ague wouldn't think it's a high priority for yourself as a u.s. attorney? >> well, gun crime, center, is a high priority for me as the united states attorney. and i think our record --
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>> the statement i read, is that statement wrong? >> without knowing the context or the specifics of the statement, it's difficult. >> it was in the minneapolis star tribune. >> is what i recall you may be referring to, it's an overall, was an article that addressed what we discussed earlier as to why the drop in terms of the overall numbers in criminal prosecutions them and again, it really is driven by three things. our resources, our collaboration with state and locals, and what can we do that they cannot do, and focusing more on impact cases as compared to be solely driven by the numbers. i believe that was the context. because it protected and the gun and drug in minnesota, there's a pretty vibrant, center klobuchar nose, felon in possession statute and each of the last
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three years, county attorneys and minnesota have prosecuted in excess of 800 individual cases. and this is subject to a reporting requirement they have annually. and so working in collaboration with them, what we have d we call exile light in minneapolis but generally throughout the state is major that those most egregious offenders do come into federal court without impeding on the jurisdictional prerogatives of our county attorneys who do yeoman's work, working with us to keep the streets safe. >> you what you're of the attorney general's advisory committee from 2009-2011. in the capacity you were a member of the southwest border strategy group. in october, 2009, that group decided to distribute a draft strategy for combating mexican cartels. the draft stated goal, merely seizing firearms through
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interdiction will not stop firearms trafficking from mexico on end of quote. a draft strategy goes on to emphasize identifying the members of armed trafficking network, the implication is clear. this strategy places a higher value on gathering intelligence about trafficking networks then on arresting straw purchasers. now, were you there at the october 26, 2009 meeting of the southwest border strategy group? did you approve of the strategy to the emphasize straw purchasing cases? ..
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with respect to your last question about opinions about the firearms case public, we have made it clear from the outset that public safety will never be sacrificed for prosecutor or investigative needs. they are first and foremost we strive to achieve in our investigations. >> when you took over at atf, you set out to clean up the shop. rather than as a planning of the atf employees that were responsible for fast and furious, you waited
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