no credit for the quarters worked under social security before this bill passes into law. none. if you work 20 years in america, paid into social security, on someone else's number and you can prove it, not worth anything. ..

must present a government i.d. with a photo. the employer enters this into a computer in the e-verify system and watches for the photograph to come up. if the official government photograph for that name doesn't match the one that they have in their hand, you can't be hired. so this is going to make the work place a lot tougher and any employer who hires someone who doesn't match up, they're subject to fines an penalties. and finally, i think it was hector who told the story about overstaying a visitors visa. 40% of the undocumented people in america overstayed their visas, visitors, tourists whatever they may be. we'll have a system under this law that will track people not only as they come in on visas but as they leave on visas. this is a tough enforcement bill and those who say it isn't haven't taken a look at it. when it comes to the border, i will tell you something i had to grit my teeth as they put another 700 miles of fence and

billion dollars on the border. for those who say we don't have enough border protection, keep this in mind. four years ago we had 10,000 border patrol agents, 10,000 for the southern border. today we have almost 20,000. this bill raises it to 40,000. for those who argue this is weak on border enforcement, i think we went too far, but as i said when you're in a negotiating situation, you want a path to citizenship, you want the d.r.e.a.m. act, we listened to the other side of the table and put more money in border enforcement that has ever been spent in the history of the united states. it's a tough bill. it's a rough bill but these immigrants have enough determination to stick it out through thick and thin for 10 or 20 years. they're going to make it. they're going to make it to the finish line. they're going to be citizens some day. [applause] >> really time for one more, i'm sorry. >> aye name is jim gaunt.

i live in ames. i want to touch on something alluded to a little bit but not much. i have ancestors who came to this continent from 1620 until about 1895. none of those people had to ask permission to land on these shores. none of them. [applause] the first of them had to ask permission to get out of england but other than that, you know. as far as i know, i'm the first person in my family, my lineal descendants to come west. some of your ancestors came in conestogas. i came here in a chevy. as far as i know i'm the first person in my lineal ancestry to get a four years college degree and masters at iowa state. like i said, none of my people asked permission to get here. doggone it, i will not stand in the way of someone else who

wants to come here for a better life like my ancestors did and i'm flattered that people still want to come to america. >> thank you. [applause] >> good note to end on. we thank you all for coming that is a great note to end on. i think that, what you can see is that, and i hope, dick, i, you know this but i hope others take away from this that, we're proud in iowa of our history of welcoming new immigrants to this state. everybody from my mother to, to the boat people, the eriteans who are here, the somalis who are here, the people who came here from cambodia and laos. laos i guess. and those who came from south of our border. those who came from mexico and

guatemala and honduras and el salavador and nicaragua and other places, they came here as this gentleman said, they didn't come here to criminalize or be criminals or to take advantage of anything. they came here just because they wanted to provide a better life for themselves and their families and when you do things like that, that's not criminal. you don't criminalize people for doing this. i've said before, you know, you don't make, you don't say, if someone broke a law because they, broke the speeding limit three or four or five times you don't call them criminals. there, people who come here because they just want to keep their families together, they send money back home so their kids can go to school, so they can maybe build a better house for their family, you know, i just say, again, at that to me that is not criminal activity. what we have to do is set up a

structure, a better structure that dick durbin worked so hard on to get this bipartisan agreement, a new structure that will allow people who have come here to do that, to work hard. you pointed out all the hoops they have got to go through but to bring them out of the shadows, to make them full members of our american family, so that, together, that we can make this country grow and prosper in the future. every wave of immigrants have done that for america and this wave is no different. they're going to make america a better place. [applause] thank you very much for being here. thank you, senator durbin. >> thank you very much. [inaudible]

>> after the immigration town hall, senators harkin and durbin spoke to reporters briefly. senator durbin talked about comments made by iowa representative steve king. this is about 15 minutes. >> well, thank you. the personal stories that we heard here today are echoed by countless others across our state and the entire united states. they echo the stories of so many iowans who told me they're tired of the status quote, they want congress to come together to fix this dysfunctional and inhumane

immigration system. we're here today to represent the views of the great majority of iowans, who want us to get our job done, work out practical solutions, stop playing politics, stop demonizing and denigrateing our fellow humans and those who want us to build a better and more prosperous iowa and america. while some misguided folks want to fight culture wars and stir up passions, most iowans and americans are concerned about our jock and the economy. they want to work to get the bill that we passed in the senate passed in the house. a bipartisan common-sense approach that improves border security, requires employers to verify work authorization, unites family, offers a practical, accountable solution to bring undocumented families out of the shadows and into the community, into our communities

and our social and economic life. and i will say as a proud senator who has represented this state, as a congressman and senator for almost 40 years, that iowans are a caring people. yes, we believe in the rule of law but we believe in fairness and we believe in equity and we believe that people ought to have a chance to succeed, and to work, and to help their families. this has been our history in this state. we welcomed the boat people and hmong people. we welcomed people here from eritrea and nigeria and ethiopia and nigeria and honduras, guatemala, el salavador, nicaragua and other places south of our border because which know that immigrants helped build our state and build our society. i speak as the son of an immigrant.

my mother came to this country as an immigrant. so i know what it means to be raised in the family of first generations. and these people that we're talking about here don't deserve to be dehumanized or denigrated in any way. they need to know that we in congress will do our job to fix this system, bring people out of the shadows, put them on a path to legal status, put them on a pathway where they can work and pay taxes and be fully contributing members of our society. and then to get in line, get in line behind those with green cards, so yes in the future they can become full citizens of the united states. person who has led the charge on the d.r.e.a.m. act now for 12 years, to make sure that we get to this point where we actually passed a bipartisan bill and he was the leader in that effort on our side to get us that bill passed in the senate. i'm proud to introduce my good friend and my fellow senator

from our neighboring state of illinois, senator dick durbin. >> thanks, tom. appreciate it. thank you very much. the comments that were made by congressman king 10 days ago, 12 days ago, have been condemned by members about his own party. the republican speaker of the house, john boehner, said they were hateful words. that's a quote. mr. cantor, the number two republican in the house said the words were, inexcusable. that really sums it up. i came to tom harkin after hearing those word and said to him, i can not let these words go without challenge, particularly as it relates to the d.r.e.a.m. act. what he said about these dreamers, characterized them as drug smugglers and people that could never be trusted doesn't reflect the reality of hose who will be eligible under the d.r.e.a.m. act and those who want to be part of america's future. i said to tom, can we come together to talk about this in

the congressman's district? and he said, i want to be there as well because i want to tell the true story about what iowans feel, about the issue of immigration. he said congressman king does not speak for the people of iowa. he doesn't even speak for the people of his district. so we came together today in ames to introduce to real-life dreamers to press and to the public and also to introduce the real feelings of the people of iowa about immigration. i have confidence that at the end of the day, we're going to pass immigration reform with republicans, independents and democrats coming together. this is not a partisan issue. it shouldn't be an issue that divides us. it should be a an issue that unites us because it is our common heritage, who we are, what america is all about, what illinois is all about and iowa is all about. so the testimony today that we heard, hard-warming stories from all of our witnesses, i hope that congressman king will have

a chance to read these, or at least hear them, or maybe even meet some. i have a lot of my friends who are dreamers and they have now become some of the most active lobbyists on capitol hill. they are everywhere. these kids are visiting every single office. they're fearless politically. they come up to congressman king, personally, face-to-face and said we would like to tell you our story and he turns and walks away. it is time for him to listen. it is time for him to understand these young people just want a chance to be part of america's future. i hope today we started on the path to making that happen. thanks, tom. >> thank you very much. dick. thank you very much. [applause] i might just add, as i said out there, a poll was taken this last wednesday by the terrance group a republican polling group and they found that in this district, in this, congressman king's district, that 70% of republican voters, 70% of

republican voters back a path to legal status. so, we would be glad to be open for questions. >> neither of you used word race cyst -- >> i'm sorry? >> neither of you have used the word racist, although one of the gentleman who was asking a question did. do you consider congressman king's comments racist? >> i don't know, kay, i don't know if i would do that. they're hurtful. they're denigrating comments about good people and as, dick said, they're not reflective of these dreamers at all. they're, these are just these are just really what did the speaker say, hateful words, and, we shouldn't have a place for those in our political discourse, especially around an issue like this. i don't know if you want to add anything. >> that's fine. >> senators, david young, a

candidate for the u.s. senate here, has said that if it weren't mexico on our southern border but instead scandinavia, that many republicans would feel the same way, this is an issue of sovereignty and rule of law and that the race of the people of color of skin of people and country on our southern boredder is irrelevant. do you think republicans would be animated in the way they are if norway and denmark were on our southern border instead? >> well that is, that's a very speculative question. let me just say this. we're a nation of immigrants. we always have been and we always will be. immigrants bring something important to this country beyond their hard work and determination for a better life. and i hope that we can have a positive relationship with all of our neighbors, canada, mexico, wherever.

and i hope that, i don't know the gentleman you referred to here. i hope he will reflect on his own community and his own family in terms how they came to this country and what they have brought to this country. i think when people stop and reflect and are honest about it, they get a much better view about immigration and what it means to our future. >> yeah, you know, yes, as a said, we have 11 million people in this country that are here illegally. 40%, as senator durbin pointed out did not come across a border. they came here with a visa in hand, from a lost different countries, and when the visa was up just stayed. many have been here, 40, 50 years. all of these, do i think every single one of those is a criminal? no. but are they here illegally?

yes. that is why the bill we crafted is a tough bill that sets up a lost hoops they have to jump through. they have to have a criminal background check. they have to pay a fine. they have -- >> learn english. >> have to learn english. there is lot of things they have to go through before the end of that 10 years when they can get in line. this is not amnesty whatsoever. so i separate out people who came here illegally from people who are criminals. now obviously that they broke laws and did things and they, they broke criminal laws they would be criminals. i'm saying simply because they came here to work, to provide for their family, they have broken no laws other than coming here illegally, they're here legally. that's true and, they need to go through all the hoops that we put in the bill but i just don't classify them as criminals. >> this, this debate is sort of

at a stand still. people have sort of marked out their territory. what do you think, if you would predict, is this growing to have to be something you will start again in a new legislative session? is there still life in this one? what do you think the future of this piece of legislation is? >> i will tell you, there is life in this issue. this issue is timely and it is necessary for america. now the house of representatives have seen this coming for a long time. we've been at this for months in the senate. they were talking about the issue at the same time. and so it shouldn't come as any surprise we sent them a bill about a month ago, to consider. now it is up to them how they want to approach it. tom and i served in the house. we had pride as house members we could do things better than in the senate. always did. senators feel same way about the house. let them come up with a bit. if they have a proposal, bring it up and vote on it in the house and bring it together in the conference committee. that is how it is supposed to work. and i sense, i really sense

there is a growing sentiment on the republican side they can not ignore this issue. they have to deal with it. and that means passing some legislation. let's do it this year. >> -- midterm elections. >> this year, before the, next year's campaign year. i think it's a lot easier to get done this year. now it is complicated because the house is not really putting in a lot of hours. they're going to be in session nine days in the month of sent. and so we're going to try to catch them when they get off the plane and talk to them before they get back on, to see if we get this on the agenda. the sooner we bring this up the better. >> senator, have you received any assurances or any conversations with spiker boehner that it will come up for a vote best end of the year? >> i don't have any, no. >> no, but, as i, dick said, we both served in the house. we know the power of the speaker. the speaker controls the rules committee. speaker boehner could, on sent

the 9th or 10th, whatever day we get back, take that senate bill, put it to the rules committee and have it on the floor in about one day. he could do that. >> if it is pushed off to next year what effect do you think it will have on the elections? >> well, let me tell you, take a look what happened in the last election, and president obama's vote totals. naturally, overwhelming support for the president from african-americans. and over 70% of the hispanic voters voted for president obama. but that wasn't the second strongest group for the president. the second strongest group were asian-americans. asian-americans view this issue very personally too. they're immigrants to this country. asian-americans voted in higher percentages for the president than hispanic americans. so if, you know, a fellow like john mccain is a very honest man and comes forward and says there are parts of america where the republican party doesn't have a chance if we don't identify ourselves on the right side of immigration reform.

and he has been very open bit. he said those words. john as the credentials to speak when it comes to that and i think if the republicans in the house do not respond to this issue, honestly, in a comprehensive way, it is going to continue to overshadow any other political issue among certain groups in america. okay? >> thank you everybody. >> let me thank, i want to again point out that here we have the business community, greater des moines partnership. we have organized labor, again, reflective what we had in our bill with the u.s. chamber and afl-cio sporting -- supporting our bill. we have the faith community, i don't know how many different faith groups we have in our bill, hundreds. >> catholics evangelicals of. >> everybody in favorite of it, and of course our two dreamers who we are very proud and, want to make sure we get this bill through, for them and their families. okay, thank you very much.

thank you. >> new york republican congressman peter king is warning his party not to abandon its long-standing emphasis on national security as he launch as two-day tour of new hampshire. the 11-term congressman is in new hampshire today and tomorrow to test the waters for a presidential bid. he says, at least a year away from a final decision. a quinnepiac university poll today suggests congressman king has uphill climb. more than 7% of respondents said they didn't know who he was. the state lawmaker who filibustered the texas senate for 10 hours to block an antiabortion bill will be at the press club in washington, d.c. randy davis will talk about the political climate in texas and future political plans. see her comments life. warner: eastern on c-span. live at 7:30 the new jersey

democratic candidates debate. corey booker faces congressman rush holt and frank pallone and state assembly member, sheila oliver. that is 7:30 on c-span. all this week at 7:00 eastern on c-span2, on core, q&a. charles bold o.w.n. talks about his duties as an astronaut and current duties leading the world's largest space agency. >> i've been pushing for this in the senate that we would move cybersecurity legislation. it is big, it is complicated. that word cybersecurity means different things to different people but we need to get this done. as hard as it is for me to say the house has done something right, i'm teasing about that, they're fine, but they have actually passed some of this and i think that we ought to look at what they have done and certainly if we want to take a stab at dog our -- doing our own thing in the senate that's great but we need to get moving on

this in senate. this is a real threat, it's a real problem, all my colleagues on the intelligence committee are not. but they lay awake at night worried about cybersecurity. we need to get this done. it is imperative we try to do it this year. >> technology and internet issues on capitol hill tonight on "the communicators" at 8:00 eastern on c-span 26789. -- c-span2. ♪ >> if we turn away from the needs of others, we align ourselves with those forces which are bringing about this suffering. >> the white house is a bully pulpit and we ought to take advantage of it. >> obesity in this country is nothing short of a public health crisis. >> i want to point out, totally when somebody had their own

agenda. >> there is so much influence in the office, it would be a shame to waste it. >> i think they serve as a window on the past to what is going on with american women. >> she becomes the chief confidante. really the only one in the world he can trust. >> many of the women who were first ladies, they were writers. a lot of them were writers, journalists. they wrote books. >> they are in many cases, quite frankly more interesting as human beings than their husbands. if only because they are not first and foremost defined and consequently limited by political ambition. >> edith roosevelt is really one of the unsung heroes. when you go to the white house today it is really edith roosevelt's white house. >> during the statement you are a little breathless and there was too much looking down and i think it was a little too fast. i love change of pace. >> yes, ma'am. >> i think in every case, the

first lady is really done whatever did within her personality and her interests. >> she later wrote in her memoir, she said i myself never made any decision. i only decided what was important and when to present it to my husband. now you sit up and think about how much power that is. that is a lot of power. >> part of the battle of against cancer is to fight the fear that accompanies the disease. >> she transformed the way we look at these bugaboos and made it possible for countless people to survive and to flourish as a result. i don't know how many presidents realistically have that kind of impact on the way we live our lives. >> just walking around the

white house ground i am constantly reminded about all of the people who have lived there before and particularly all of the women. >> first ladies, influence and image, a c-span original series, produced in cooperation with the white house historical association. season 2 premiers sent 9th as we explore the modern era and first ladies from edith roosevelt to michelle obama. >> senate republican leader mitch mcconnell shared the stage saturday with his 2014 campaign rivals at a picnic and fund-raiser in the town of fancy farm, kentucky. senator mcconnell is facing a primary challenge from tea party-backed businessman, matt beavin. mcconnell's likely democratic opponent is secretary of state, alison grimes. also speaking, democratic candidate, ed marksberry.

this is courtesy of kentucky educational television. [shouting] >> all right. well, thank you very much. thank you. >> we want mitch. we want mitch. >> we want mitch. >> i want to thank jerome, i want to jerome for another incredible fancy farm. we also, you're also well-represented by representative richard heat, state senator stan humphries, obviously congressman ed

whitfield and commissioner of agriculture jamie comber is with us here today. we appreciate them all. but look, before i get started, i want to say how nice it is, how nice it is to see jerry lundigan back in the game. like the loyal democrat he is, he is taking orders from the obama campaign on how to run his daughter's campaign. they told him to make a pitch on the internet for the women's vote and he sent a check to anthony weiner. [shouting] over the next 15 months, over the next 15 months, we're going to decide what kind of america we want to have. what kind of kentucky we want to have.

there are only two answers to this question, barack obama's vision for america, or kentucky's. you know i -- kentucky to washington and obama crowd and they don't like it. kentucky's voice is often the voice of opposition to the obama agenda. and i'm proud of that. that's why every liberal in america, every liberal in america is out to beat us next year. [cheering] you know the liberals are worried because just as i predicted obamacare is a disaster for america. [cheers] i fought them every step of the way, every step of the way on

the government takeover. and we stand up to their war on coal. look, as long as i'm in the senate kentucky will have a voice instead of san francisco and martha's vineyard. [cheering] look at all these liberals, all these liberals come down here to push me around. they're not going to get away with it, are they? >> no! >> rand paul, ed whitfield and i take kentucky's fight to the liberals every single day. let me give you an example. a few months ago, the nanny state liberals decided to, the nanny state liberals decided you couldn't fish below the dams on

the river anymore. well i rounded up the groups. we all got together with ed whitfield and rand paul and you can still fish below the dams. we stopped them. [cheering] back at beginning of the year they tried to raise taxes on everybody. i led the charge to save 99% of kentuckians from a tax increase. [cheers] they tried to bully, they tried to bully conservatives over at the irs but we called them out. [cheering] look, you can't get anything of those done from the back bench. that's why it is important, very, very important, to keep kentucky's voice strong. we've obviously got some big elections coming up. but we're not just choosing. we're not just choosing who is

going to represent kentucky in the senate. we're going to decide who will run the senate. [cheering] and here's the choice. here's the choice. is the senate going to be run by a nevada yes-man for barack obama? who believes coal makes you sick, or, the guy you're looking at? [cheering] it's really quite simple. here's the choice. obama's nevada yes-man, or a kentuckian to run the senate.

[cheering] thanks for all you're doing. it is going to be a great campaign. we're going to have a lot of fun. [shouting] >> we want mitch! [cheering] [shouting] >> we want mitch. we want mitch. we want mitch. we want mitch. >> we want mitch. >> i'd like to thank bishop

father fenner at st. jerome's parish for hosting the 133rd fancy farm picnic. it is great to be back here in west kentucky. now, i only have six minutes to speak today, and i have a great piece of advice from senator wendell ford. he told me i could cut two minutes from my speech by using i, instead of referring to myself as allison lunder began grimes. i admit, alisonlu grimes is long name, where else do you have a long name with five vowels. because it is such a long name, my grandmother and i decided which could do something about that. kentucky, come january 2015, you can call me senator.

[shouting] now i know senator mcconnell believes i'm not right for this job because unlike him, i haven't been in washington, d.c. for 30 years. but do i really need to apologize for having more government experience than rand paul? [shouting] now i know many of you hoped to see rand paul here today. but he is spending his weekend with his loved ones, the tea party members in iowa. today, is a really special occasion, it is not at fancy farm that the republican nominee for united states senate actually shows up. so please join me in giving a big rousing welcome, to matt beavin.

senator mcconnell is here too. he and i have his differences, like when he voted to double medicare premiums. if senator mcconnell had his way, his version of kentucky health care for our seniors, grandmother, would be to walk it off. let's tell it like it is. if a doctor told senator mcconnell he had a kidney stone, he would refuse to pass it! [cheering] i'm glad senator mcconnell is here and he actually stayed because i know it has been a tough month for him. from the republican caucus, the entire caucus going around him to accomplish filibuster reform. to matt bevin's announcement, to his chief of staff leaving this weekend. recent polls show that senator mcconnell is the most

unpopular senator among not just democrats, but republicans as well. [cheering] 0. you know what that means? he kept one campaign promise. to keep both parties coming together. the truth is, there's a reason that senator mcconnell is disliked not only by the voters of kentucky but by the entire united states. and that is because there is a disease of dysfunction in washington, d.c. after 30 years, senator mcconnell is at the center of it. indeed at his request for power he left kentucky and its citizens behind. as long as he remains in washington, d.c., d.c. will stand for dysfunctional capitol.

[cheering] after years of being the leader of the republican party, the republican party, the gop, has come to stand for gridlock, obstruction and partisanship. [cheering] it seems our senior senator only understands the meaning of one word, stop. well, senator, your voting time after time begins increasing the minimum wage, all the while you increased your pay and quadrupled your net worth. stop now! your empty rhetoric for fighting for kentucky coal, while working against their retirees, stop now. senator, you're failing to stand up for the good women of kentucky when you vote against the violence against women's act, the lilly led better act

and fair pay act, stop now. you're failing to realize the importance of labor, that it literally lifted millions out of poverty, stop now. now the senator and i we have two different views of public service. as we all know, he used public service as a carnival game of whac-a-mole. i will tell you, i scare easy and neither does the rest of kentucky. after 30 years of failed leadership, it's time we had a united states senator that unites all kentuckians, democrats, republicans and independents and helps to put kentucky, not washington first. as your senator i will continue to do what i have done as secretary of state, that is reach across the aisle and i will not for get who i represent and that is you. i will work so that every kentucky woman gets equal pay for equal work. that is what the kentucky women

deserve, nothing less. that is what a kentucky senator should be fighting for. i will fight to keep our jobs here and not send them overseas. that is what is kentucky senator should be fighting for. and i believe in balancing our budget the right way. cutting spending while protecting social security and medicare. that is what a kentucky senator should be fighting for. senator mcconnell talks about, kentucky, i'm here to invite you to the -- [inaudible] god bless each of you have. [shouting] >> i want to tell, matt, you have a beautiful family, man. and you stole half of what i was fixing to say. >> say it again. >> well, sometimes you don't

want to repeat but listen, i want to start off by dedicating this speech to a good friend of mine that passed away, gatewood galbraith. he was what we consider a grassroots candidate. he believed likes i believe that the party bosses shouldn't pick the candidates. it should be the people. gatewood, here is you throwing your hat back in the ring. now, i'm probably going to run over so i want to you stand up a little bit so i can see you there, because i can't even say hello for five minutes. now i also want to give one more shoutout to the hillbilly report.org. if you want to know everything that is wrong with mitch mcconnell, you guys need to check it out. for the national media out there, check out our good friend, jim pence. i told you to stay in the truck. >> i'm not in a truck. >> one thing i want to talk about, i've been the placeholder

here since december and national media, kind of forgot about that but that's what happens when you're a grass root candidate. you don't have money. you don't have a machine behind you. but let me tell you, mitch mcconnell is probably going to raise 20 or $30 million to tell lies about miss alison grimes but i hope she raises 20 or $30 million to tell the truth about mitch. [shouting] now, a lot of people know that you can't buy ed marksberry but you can buy mitch. mitch says he has been working for kentucky. matt, if that is what you call working for kentucky, we want hill to stop. a lot of people would have called mitch the turtle man. that is disrespectful to the good tutor mall man we have here in kentucky. i'm a big fan of the turtle man. i'm sure you are too. all right, no ice cream for you when you get home. now let me tell you something

about mitch. everybody makes fun of his look. they talk about his chin. he doesn't have a chin. he used to. if you remember back when he first was a judge executive in louisville, he had a chin as big as jay leno. but he suffers from what i would like to call the corporate eleastist kiss mitis. let me corporate elite kiss me-itis is. i will spell that for the media later. that is after years of kissing the butts of the corporate elite you rub your chin right off. we have to actually talk about what mitch ace legacy is. mitch likes to obstruct. the state seal of kentucky has two great, one's a great frontiers man, "daniel boone," the other henry clay, the great compromiser. we know what mitch will be known as. he will be the great

obstructionizer. i will add something to your rand paul, senator. he is what i call the grand disillusionist. i think you know it is funny. let me tell you one more thing about mitch. he sold his soul. how many minutes i got? we'll be quick. mitch sold his soul to the corporate elite. i will give my soul to the middle class families that work hard in the country. mitch has sold himself to the pharmaceutical companies out there while i'm going to give my soul to the senior citizens that can't afford their prescription drugs because of mitch. i'm going to tell you one more thing about mitch. you're right, he sold his soul to the wall street bankers that caused this big recession, not obama. i'm going to give my soul to those college students that are

owned a burden with the high cost of going to college and with their debts. now i'm about done. i have one minute? well, i'd like to talk about my website, marksberry, 24team.com. when i was running we couldn't get traction with the media, what not. even our party leaders. i came out with a song, what about us? i would love it if you would go to that website, and just click on, what about us? it will tell you about what it is good to be about a democrat because about 2,000 years ago there was another person that taught us what democrats are. we believe in taking care of the elderly, the orphans and also those that are poor. and i said to go out there and visit those in prison. one more thing, he didn't charge a dime to heal you. thank you, god blows. marksberry2014.com.

[cheering] >> thank you. thank you for having me here. fancy marm, what an amazing tradition this is. i will ask my family to come on up here. now that mitch mcconnell made room for us by leaving, we have a little more room here on the stage. [cheering] come on up, guys. let me tell you something, i know this is a good time, i know it is fun and rowdy and i know there's a lot of good food. i thank the people of st. jerome's parish for putting this on because this is an extraordinary piece of american history right here but the fact of the matter is, at the end of the day, we are here because we do live in the land of the free, and we do live in the home of the brave, and that means something and it's great to play games and it's great to boo and great to take snarky comments

about the other people. i did find it interesting that jack conway was talking about people in fancy clothes. you know, anyhow, i will stop there. the fact is, the fact is, there is a lot more at stake on this stage and in this senate race than meets the eye. it's more than just the noise. mitch mcconnell has amazingly disappeared. i find that shocking. it is like a 30-year flash back. instead of where's d. , instead of where's d. , it is where's mitch. maybe we can call them back. where's mitch. >> where's mitch? >> where's mitch? >> where's mitch? >> you know the people of kentucky have been wondering that for quite a while now, on both sides of the aisle i will have you know. mitch mcconnell spoke in louisville. he likes to brag that kentucky

is place where people come to end their lives. that was his exact quote. i'm running for u.s. senate because i'm living proof of, and i want people to know that, kentucky is a place for people to begin their lives, to expand their lives and to improve their lives. [cheering] >> you can cheer for this too, it's okay. you want a better life! we're on the same team here, i'll tell you that much. it is easy to get up here and take cracks at little -- alison grimes, i'm not going to do that we will have ample opportunity on this stage when this guy is gone to do exactly that. [cheering] and frankly, with the start to her campaign, i mean, i didn't have anything left after that. so the fact is, there will be time for that next year. the bells, the bells that have been ringing, mitch mcconnell seems to wonder, what was up with that? i saw him kind of looking around. let me tell you something, senator, if you haven't scurried

away yet, ask not for whom the bell tolls, senator. they to for you. [cheering] they toll for you, they toll for you because the people of kentucky have had enough. [cheering] they toll for you because the people of kentucky have had enough of the amnesty, they have had enough of the bailouts, they have had enough of wall street banks being bailed out while small kentucky businesses and farms got nothing. they have had enough. [cheering] they had enough of you raising your own pay time and time and time again while people here in the commonwealth are struggling. they have had enough of that. [cheering] the people of kentucky have had enough of you fighting desperately to keep your job while doing nothing to help keep jobs in kentucky with 5700 jobs

in the coal towns alone gone in the last two years. it is unacceptable. we've had enough! [cheering] and i find it interesting, why are you leaving already and with all of your supporters? apparently the bus wants to beat the crowd but the fact of the matter is, mitch mcconnell doesn't want people to actually hear that they have an alternative. we hear a lot of empty rhetoric from mitch mcconnell about ending obamacare. obamacare is unpopular. stop talking about yanking it out root and branch and start voting in the u.s. senate to kill it by defunding it. stand with senator mike lee. be a man, stand up, and put your money where your mouth is. the people of kentucky deserve better. mitch mcconnell is known as mudslinging mitch because the only thing he has to run on is destroying other people. there is nothing in his 30-year

history of voting that he is proud enough of to actually run on. he talks about the money he has. he brags about his war chest. we'll i'll tell you this, mitch mcconnell, or addison mitchell mcconnell ii, as he might be known. there was another guy that had a war chest. king george william frederick iii. he had a war chest and the people sent him packing and i will send you packing. i don't intend to run to the light 6 mitch mcconnell. i don't intend to run to the left of mitch mcconnell. i intend to run straight over the top of mitch mcconnell into the u.s. senate and with your help we'll do that and god bless you and god bless the united states of america. [cheering] >> we spoke with matt beavin after the event of the pub

tea-party backed candidate. he criticized the senate republican leader, organizing departure of gop sponsored buss before mr. beavin addressed the fancy farm picnic. this is 15 minutes. >> the people of kentucky want better than a guy been there 30 years that has never worked in the private sector a day of his life. they are fed up with that. >> are you committed to putting in enough to make the race. >> do you think it's a race already? it's a race, believe me. it will be continue to be a race until may of next year, yes. >> [inaudible] >> isn't very big threat? >> i think it speaks to the exact opposite. he is afraid. he has reason to be afraid. when you have no record to stand on. when in fact you have been in washington 30 years, when in fact you have never create ad private sector job in your life or even held a private sector job in your life, yet you want to stand up here talk about how you're going to help people back here in kentucky? ask 5700 workers in the coal

industry in this state who lost their jobs in the last two years alone. ask them how this fight goes? >> [inaudible] what can you bring to the gop right now? >> sob who actually believes in the future of this country. i think you saw on this stage, i was here with my wife and nine children. i have a lot of good reasons. i have a wonderful family. i am truly a blessed man. but i am doing this because their future matters. the america that they will be left with, is what it is at stake. not just for my family, every other kid that is out there today and young people you're talking about, they are disillusioned because the gop is not standing on the principles of smaller government, less intrusive regulation, less taxes. that is what young people want. they don't want to go into their futures saddled by the debt that china and other countries, that mitch mcconnell and some other career politicians are keeping on their heads. >> [inaudible] >> let me get somebody to ask a

question. >> what she was talking about the way he treated you today? did you shake hands, did you talk? >> i greeted him when he came in. i'm an adult. i would expect the same from everybody in the race, who wants to represent their state. if people want to act, i have nine children. i'm used to childish behavior, i really am. >> did he refuse to shake your hand. >> i shook his hand when he came in. we shook hands. what he wanted to do and the position he wanted to take by having people leave you will have to ask him about that. >> you think that is childish behavior. >> i think it is rather childish, i do. but the fact of the matter is, people have a choice. he doesn't want them to know they have a choice but they do have a choice. if he thinks i'm going away, that would be a severe, severe underestimation on thinks part. it really would. i will be here until may 20th. and on may 21st, allison and i will start round 2. >> -- dinner last night and breakfast this morning is that your message?

>> i think my message has been heard and continue to be heard. i asked to be heard in the only place in the fancy farm arena i was asked to be last two days. that is okay. my message will be heard loud and clear. wonderful thing called the internet. anybody that wants to see this will hear it. people of kentucky are hungry for change. they're tired of 30 years for representation by a guy that does not share kentucky values. they're tired of it. we'll give them a clear, conservative alternative on the republican side of the table. we've got to go. thank you. [e. [bells ringing] >> [inaudible] [bells ringing] >> we've got to go.

we have a four-hour drive. [inaudible] >> good job, man. that was pretty cool. >> absolutely. good deal. >> walk with me. >> yeah, i will walk with you. i didn't get to ask questions. [inaudible] >> i have been asked that question by everybody thus far. the money will be in this campaign to run the kind of race that is being run right now. it will continue to be run in this fashion, professional fashion, well-funded fashion, and in a fashion that allows votes to get out, voices to be heard so the votes can be made in an informed fashion next spring. the funding is not going to be issue. >> can you tell us how much you put in thus far? >> i answered the question. go back and -- there will be ample funding.

there will be ample funding. >> can we say hi at least. >> let me do this. oh come on. >> a hug. >> get a picture? >> sure. here we go. >> so sorry. hold it down. ready, act like you like each other. >> we do. i wouldn't beholding her -- spending my day with any ol' guy. >> there we go. >> thank you very much. >> tell you about 10 degrees cooler than normally. >> we're lucky. >> one more thing, this is david and goliath campaign, will you share david's fate? >> i do have david's faith and i do have his confidence because right and principle wins out over power every time. this is a game that people are playing where it is power over principle but in reality,

principle should trump power. this is a battle between reelecting someone for the sake of sending him back to washington, but i beg him to tell the people of kentucky, anything that he promises to do in the next six years that he has been somehow unable to get done in the last 30 years? i challenge him to tell us one thing or one thing in the last 30 years he is proud enough of that he can actually run on that, as opposed to smearing me and alison, ed and anyone else in the race. it is beneath the dignity of the office of holds and i'm asking him to be a man, run on his record. david will win. david will win. >> amen. >> i have to really -- >> [inaudible] >> the state department says u.s. diplomatic posts in 19 cities in the muslim world will be closed at least through the end of the week. the department spokeswoman says that the decision to keep the embassies and consulates

shuttered is a sign of abundance of caution and not an indication of a new threat. c-span will have live coverage of today's white house briefing where reporters will ask spokesman jay carney about the threat. that is scheduled about an hour from now at 2:00 eastern. . . >> current duties leading the worls largest space agency. >> i've been pushing for this in the senate that we would move cybersecurity legislation.

it's big, it's complicated. that word cybersecurity means different things to different people, but we need to get this done. and, actually, as hard as it is for me to say that the house has done something right -- no, i'm teasing about that, the house, they're fine -- but they've actually passed some of this. and i think that we ought to look at what they've done and, certainly, if we want to take a stab at doing our own thing in the senate, that's great. but we need to get moving on this in the senate. and this is a real threat, it's a real problem, and all of my colleagues who are on the intelligence committee -- i'm not, but they all lay awake at night worried about cybersecurity. so we need to get this done. it's imperative that we try to do it this year. >> technology and internet issues on capitol hill tonight on "the communicators" at 8 eastern on c-span2. >> we've never really known what to do with our first ladies, and that is particularly true in more recent times as on the one

hand they're expected to have causes. you can't imagine a first lady today without a cause. on the other hand, those causes are not permitted to intrude upon law making or an official capacity. so it's always been a tight rope. and seeing how each of these women walk that tight rope tells you a lot not only about them, but about the institution and about the society that they represented. >> this week we begin our encore presentation of our original series, "first ladies: influence and image," looking at the public and private lives of our nation's first ladies. this week martha washington to angelica van buren. "first ladies," weeknights all this month starting tonight at 9 p.m. eastern on c-span. and during tonight's program on martha washington, join in the conversation with historian and author patricia brady at

facebook.com/c-span. >> the afl-cio and economic policy institute recently hosted a forum on immigration reform efforts in congress. speakers included republican senator john mccain who was a member of the gang of eight who helped craft the senate's immigration bill as well as democratic congressman javier becerra from california. the hour, ten minute event took place at the afl-cio headquarters in washington d.c. >> good morning, everyone. i would like to invite -- [laughter] good morning, everyone. >> morning! >> i would like to invite everybody to, please, take a deep breath with me. america. we immediate to talk -- we need to talk. and we need to stand, because we believe this is the year, the year that the dreams of my parents will be realized and the dreams of millions who came

across borders unimaginable to reach the land of opportunities. a story comes to mind of a little girl's dream to become a spokesperson. she did not mean to take anything, let alone make a scene. she was just trying to fit in. yet by age 15, treated like she was a sin, illegal. placed in a category, a shelf, a cell, incarcerated in the words, sentenced without conviction. alone she would crumble. yet the dream kept her humble, and she built a suit of armor to join the fight. empowered by the liberation, we the people must build the suit. let's go on and tell them what they who have the power sit, separating us as they see fit. while my father's hands blister from work all day, and he doesn't feel like he has a say? as this nation dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal rises with 11

million dreams. america, we are liberated by the pain. so let's talk. because america is home, a land of dreams for all dreamers. thank you. [applause] >> wow. ladies and gentlemen, that was poet and dreamer hareth andrade-ayala. thank you again. how about another round of applause? [applause] my name's sullivan, general president of the labors national union of north america. we represent more than 500,000 workers across north america. we have been in the forefront of fighting for comprehensive immigration reform, and we're going to continue to fight for passage of this critical issue

until congress finally gets it done. brothers and sisters, the time is now. the labor movement is now thrilled to welcome two political powerhouses on immigration reform to talk about the importance of citizenship. senator john mccain has been a staunch advocate for immigration reform for more than a decade and was part of the bipartisan gang of eight that passed the historic comprehensive immigration reform bill. it's not very often that you have the opportunity to be in the company of an american hero, and that certainly is what senator john mccain is. and on behalf of the afl-cio, sir, we want to welcome you today into the house of labor. [applause] >> that's quite a welcome. >> congressman javier becerra is leading those efforts in the house as part of a house bipartisan task force and is a

key member of house leadership. like congressman becerra, i hail from the great state of california. he is a good friend and a good brother. he has been an advocate his entire career of fighting for working men and women, for immigrant workers. he is somebody that is president of labor's, i have never been to his office, and i never will be to his office because you never have to question where congressman becerra is on each and every issue that impacts and affects immigrant workers and working men and women. congressman, we welcome you as well to the afl-cio and the house of labor. [applause] and now i will hand over the microphone to our moderator, bill samuels. bill is the director of government affairs for the afl-cio. bill? [applause] >> thank you. thank you very much, terry. let me again welcome senator mccain and congressman becerra

to the afl-cio. i know you've both been here before, welcome back. we're honored to have you here and grateful to both of you for taking a few minutes to share your thoughts on the state of immigration reform. it's a subject i know that is as important to you as it is to the 11 million immigrants in the u.s. for whom citizenship means the difference between living in constant fear of family separation and living a life with all the rights and protections that the rest of us take for granted. now, i know you're both busy, so i'm going to get right to our questions. senator mccain, the passage of comprehensive immigration reform by an overwhelming margin was due in no small measure to your efforts to craft a bipartisan package. given the debate that now surrounds the bill, what do you think the chances are that congress will pass a bill that includes a pathway to citizenship? >> first of all, may i say thank you for having me today. it's always a pleasure to be with congressman becerra. one of the more influential and

important members of the house of representatives. and i thank him for all of his efforts and his articulate advocacy for comprehensive immigration reform. and may i say it's nice to be back here amongst old friends and enemies. [laughter] i think the month of august is a very important month. the members of congress, both house and senate but in this case because the focus is now on the house of representatives, are back in their districts. and they're spending their time consulting with and meeting with various groups that they represent ranging from organized labor to the chamber to others, a lot of it depending on the makeup of their districts. and i think that it's very important that we -- as is our constitutional right to petition

members of congress, the elected representatives, that's in the constitution -- should be seeking meetings with and communications with our members of congress. i intend in arizona to travel throughout the state meeting with various interest groups ranging from evangelicals to the chamber to various hispanic organizations throughout in town hall meetings to convince my fellow citizens of arizona of the importance of acting on this legislation. i think this -- could i just finally say i think this fall is very important. it's very important because we get into 2014, we're back into an election cycle. i think the issue really has ripened to the point where enough americans are aware of it that we're either going to act or not act.

and i would point out that every poll that i have seen -- and i have seen a hundred of them -- indicate that well over 70% of the american people support a path to citizenship provided that, and i'm going to give you some straight talk this morning, provided that they pay back taxes, pay a fine, learn english and get in line behind those who came to this country legally. that is an important aspect of gaining the support of the vast majority of american people. finally, the reason why the vast majority of american people support it is because they realize and they've gone more to realize since ted kennedy and i fought this battle and lost that this is an issue of 11 million people who are living in the shadows, that are deprived of the rights of our citizens, who can't live normal lives, and they aren't going back to where they came from.

so it's de facto amnesty, those that complain that this is amnesty, this bill we're trying to get done, there's already de facto amnesty, because they're not leaving. and when people live in the united states of america without the protections of citizenship, then some of them and maybe many of them are exploited and mistreated in a broad variety of ways. that's not what america is supposed to be all about. >> thank you, senator mccain. same question for representative becerra. as a member of the gang of eight -- gang of seven now in the house, you're now at the center of the debate in the house of representatives. what do you think the chances are that a bill will make it to president obama? >> let me first start by saying that i, i agree with everything that senator mccain just said, so you'd have to conclude that the chances are getting much better these days that we will

pass a comprehensive fix to the immigration system. but if i could just say that we would not even be at step one had senate mccain -- senator mccain not stepped to the plate. and it's so important because we're not going to do this unless it's a bipartisan bill. and be we no longer have senator kennedy with us who was a champion on so many issues, but we're fortunate that senator mccain was still with us and that he brings a big bat. and we saw the results, 68 votes. because they figured out a way in the senate working together to do this bipartisanly. so i don't think we can talk a whole lot without first recognizing those who stepped to the plate at some risk to themselves and with risk of losing to do this. and i, i think a tremendous amount of history will be written once we do this, because i do believe we'll pass this, about how john mccain from arizona acted not as an arizonan, not as a politician, but as a u.s. citizen thinking

mostly about his country. so i think we owe senator mccain a great deal. [applause] bill, i also think we're going to pass this because of miss andrade ayala who just spoke. i mean, is there any difference between that superstar and any other superstar who wants to be a leader for america? no. is there any reason why we would want to contain a superstar like that from being able to shine not just in america, but for this country? and so the reality is if we put aside party and think about country, if we recognize the benefits of fixing this broken immigration system to our economy as the cbo has said to mr. holtz-eakin who probably recognizes better than most what it means when the congressional budget office, the nonpartisan scorekeeper for congress, says

that we would add hundreds of billions of dollars to our economy if we fix the broken immigration system. and if you recognize that everyone agrees that we must tackle border security as well, well, then this is good for our country. so there is no reason why we shouldn't do something that's good for our economy, good for our country. and finally, it lets millions of people come out of shadows and just whack it out of the park every time. and so i firmly believe more than i ever have felt in the 20 years that i've now been privileged to serve in congress that this is the year we're going to do it so long as, so long as folks in the capitol put country ahead of party. >> thank you. senator mccain, the gang of eight represented different points of view on a lot of subjects, and it was fascinating to watch that process. but they all seemed to agree that a pathway to citizenship had to be contained as part of

the bill. how did that come about? >> well, i think that if we look at the european example where there are large numbers of people who came in this case from north africa and live in enclaves who are never part of society, who never have a chance to be full citizenship and participant in those countries -- participate in those countries, you see bad things happen. people have to have the ability to be -- the greatness of america, i don't have to, many of the things i say are obvious to all, but we should remember the greatness of america is the integration of waves of immigrants into our country which has made us the most unique and greatest nation on earth. whether they be the irish or the italians or the jews or the poles, whoever, whatever wave it is, our country has been enriched, and that's the case

with the latest wave. of hispanic citizens. so, and by the way, i had a meeting -- this is just an interesting item. i had a meeting with an official from the french government. they're tracking over a hundred french nationals that have gone into the fight in syria as jihadists. it has a tendency when people are not allowed to be part of a nation to polarize those individuals that live there. and that cannot -- that is unacceptable situation in my view. and by the way, doug holtz-eakin is, i think, an economist that is trusted more by both sides of the aisle than anybody that i know. he was former head of the office of congressional budget office, and i think that you'll find his facts -- and they are facts, not conjecture -- about what it does for our economy, this legislation does, to be very

important. finally let me just say sometime today or in the next few days somewhere in southern arizona the border patrol or local authorities will come across some dead bodies. they'll come across some dead bodies of people who crossed our border, usually with coyotes who deserted them. this is not acceptable. it's not acceptable. it's not acceptable. to have this kind of exploitation of people that leads to the most miserable kind of existence and even death. and there's so many aspects of this that appeal to our judeo-christian principles that i think we have a good chance of convincing our fellow members of the house of representatives. >> congressman becerra, how do you think citizenship is faring in the house, and do you think the house will pass a bill that contains as definite a path to citizenship as senator mccain

negotiated as part of the senate bill? >> bill, i think if the, if the bill that the senate passed a few weeks back were to be placed on the floor for a vote, it would pass bipartisanly today. we may end up working on a bill that's a house-derived version of immigration reform, but i do believe it'll include the path to citizenship for all the reasons that senator mccain just said. my sense is that in the house what we have to do is figure out a way to navigate from today until the day of that vote so that we can bring together the bipartisan majority that we need. i think there are right now the republicans necessary in the house to give us that bipartisan majority. and as many people, senator mccain, i, others are working

with our colleagues on the republican side in the house to get to that point, what we're trying to do is give speaker boehner the opportunity to open that door. and it's been tough on occasion to get there because of some other voices that have been out there. but at the end of the day, i think in the house we see what the senate saw, a chance to really fix this broken immigration system in all of its aspects. but for the reasons senator mccain said, i don't think this country's ready to go back to not the 20th century, but the 19th century when we talked about having a second class of americans. and i don't believe you going possible able to -- to be able to clear the decks of those who live in the shadows where if the only thing you promise them is to register to have a temporary status, when that status expires they either have to leave their families and what they have or

become undocumented again. you may as well stay undocumented, stay as long as you can before they catch you and then go about your life again and see if you can come back into this country under the shadows. and be so the only way to clear the decks of those in the shadows is to give folks a chance to really believe this is what we're going to do to give folks a path, a path to citizenship. and then by the way, once you are able to clear the decks of those in the shadows, the only folks who will stay in the shadows are those that we really want to go after. and so we won't have any fear now of trying to descend on folks who choose to stay in the shadows, because they're the folks that want to sell our kids drugs, they're the ones that are trying to game the system and violate our laws. and they're perhaps the ones we have to fear the most because they may be potential terrorists because they have no choice but to live in the shadows. and we want to make sure that if anyone stays in the shadows, that we are able to descend on them with every tool that law enforcement has so that we know that what we've done is

protected our country as best possible. >> could i also mention of all the legislation that i've been involved in over the years, i have never seen a broader coalition of support as i've seen on this bill. whether it be evangelicals and the catholic church, the chamber of commerce, all labor behind it. there's a broader spectrum of support than any that i have ever seen in my political career, and i think that if we can galvanize all of those disparate parts of america whether it be the religious community or the business community or labor, whoever it is, i am confident we can, we can prevail. so far i have to give you some straight talk, we haven't done as an effective job as we're going to have to do between now and this fall. >> so watching legislation get made is often compared to watching sausage made -- >> watching sausages you never

want to see made, yes. >> but at least sausages taste good. [laughter] >> my question is at the end of this lock and messy -- long and messy process, what has to be in the bill to gain your support? >> path to citizenship, obviously, is a fundamental element. the rest of it i think could be adjusted. when you go in for the weeks and hours and hours of discussions that we had, compromises are made. and that makes certain elements of it people really having to swallow hard. i know labor did, i know the chamber did and others. but i think that we with these now months of review of the legislation can look at areas that could be adjusted. again, i'll give you a little straight talk. we don't need 20,000 additional border patrol agents. but what we do need is to use the technology that has been developed where we can surveil

the border more effectively. but additional people -- today on the arizona/mexico border it's probably 120 degrees. people don't do well for a long period of time under those conditions, whereas we could have surveillance capabilities. with 20,000 additional border patrol and, again, i voted for it so friends of mine would be comforted that we were securing the border. but the real securing of the border is with technology as opposed to individuals. although we certainly do need individuals. one other point. everybody says in 1986 we promised, we gave amnesty, and we promised we'd secure the border. well, we really didn't if you really look at it. and the fact is that we now -- in 1986 we had 4,000 border patrol agents. now we have 21,000 border patrol agents. the border is more secure, and anybody who tells you it isn't,

i'd like to take 'em down to the border and show them some of the stuff we have done. is it as secure as we want it to be? no, but i think i technology can make that significant contribution to that effort. >> congressman becerra, border security seems to be taking on a slightly different cast in the house, but same question to you, what has to be in the bill to earn your support? >> and, bill, i think we all know what has to be in the bill. we've gone through this for years, and we've examined every nook and cranny to figure out what you need. what we need most is to make sure that in 10 or 15 years we're not coming back to the american public and saying, guess what? we've got to fix the broken immigration system again. so you can't do this, as i like to say in spanish,. [speaking spanish] you don't do this in bits and pieces. because if the machine is broken, you fix one part of the machine, all you've got is a machine that's got a whole bunch of broken parts with one that works okay, but it's not going to make the machine work

properly. you've got to fix it all. the senator identified one of the key componentings. you've got to give those 10 or 1 1 million people that are living, work, graduating as valedictorians, you've got to bring them out. you've got to have border security, everyone agrees with that. i think the senator is right on border security. you have to have workplace enforcement. you have to convince the american public that we're going to get it right when it comes to someone applying for a job having the right to work in this country and no employer abusing of the law and unscrupulously hiring folks who don't have the right to work. and if you do those three thicks, border enforcement, workplace enforcement and you deal with the undocumented, then you have only one other thing to do, and that is to finally fix the legal visa system so that you don't have teem -- people who wait 10, 20 -- you know, if you're a mexican and you've got relatives in the u.s. who are asking for you to come, if you're a sibling of someone in

the u.s. wanting to come into this country, your wait could be about 140 years. well, if you're -- unless you have got some new drug, you're not going to wait for 140 years. so that drives a lot of the undocumented immigration into this country. you've got to fix the legal visa system for families and for employment. and if you do that, you will have a system that works in all of its parts. and this is one important aspect of this. and senator mccain mentioned it. terry o'sullivan is a representative of millions of americans who work every day with their hands out there road construction, building construction. my father was a construction worker, a member of the labor union, 185. i was a member of local 185 in sacramento, california, as well working in road construction myself for a time. what terry and all those in the building trades did was something courageous, they took a chance that senator mccain

and the u.s. senate could arrive at a decent deal. because they're looking at a prospect of more people coming into the country to take jobs while you have 20% unemployment in the construction industry. and what they did was they swallowed, and they reached what i think is common sense compromise with the u.s. chamber of commerce on how to deal with the future flow of workers. and i won't call them lower skilled because i did the work, i know how much skill is involved. it takes a whole lot of energy and talent to be able to stay out there for 8-10 hours a day in the sun doing the work with those tools out there. and they compromised, and they reached a deal for the good of the country. so i think what we're finding is if you deal with all four aspects of immigration reform, you will have a system that works, and you won't have to worry about doing this, as we say in spanish -- [speaking spanish] >> by the way, he went from an honest line of work into politics. [laughter]

e-verify. e-verify so important. please, one of the least talked about aspects of illegal immigration is that 40% of the people who are in this country illegally didn't cross our border illegally, they came on a visa and overstayed the visa. now, we have to have a system where employers have a verification system that the person they are hiring is in the country legally. because right now employers -- i can buy a birth certificate in nogales, sonora for about $40 today. so we have to have the e-verify system so that the employers will have to know whether that person is illegally, can be legally hired. and if that employer hires someone who is here illegally, that employer pays a tough penalty. the ag jobs issue, i think you would agree, was really one of the tough -- the agricultural worker program. there are jobs that american citizens will not do, and i'll show you that. it is tough.

new immigrants who come to this country always grab the bottom rung on the ladder, and thank god they move up. but we need an agricultural worker program that will work. and finally, the s.t.e.m., the science, technology, engineering and mathematics. the majority of students who are taking advance degrees in those majors, advanced degrees, the majority of them are not american citizens. so we want to give them the opportunity to remain in the united states and work here rather than go back to china or india or wherever that they came from. that's one reason why the high-tech community so supportive of this as well. those are other elements. but i want to emphasize again the e-verify. because unless that employer has a way of ascertaining whether that person is in this country legally or not, then obviously we cannot -- we're going to have to make sure that that magnet is

drying up. >> you've been very generous with your time. i know you have to get back to capitol hill, but one final question if i can. polls are showing growing support for comprehensive immigration reform including citizenship. now, elected officials have their own sense of public opinion, and i want to ask you given your experience, where do you think the public is on immigration reform and especially on the question of citizenship? senator mccain? >> i have great faith in the american people. i have a great confidence that the american people are good, decent judeo-christian-principled nation who are willing to serve and sacrifice for this nation. i don't know why i mention it, but, you know, one of my dearest friends and heroes when i was in prison with him passed away day before yesterday, a man whose courage inspired so many generations. and by the way, i would like to point out among the many

wonderful things that hispanic contributions have made to america is when you look at the percentage of hispanic citizens who serve in the military. so i believe in america, and i believe that at the end of the day we're going to do the right thing. we're not going to talk about people with cantaloupe calves. we're not going to, we're not going to indulge, engage in that kind of despicable rhetoric. we're going to talk about the greatness of america. if i could just mention one story very quickly to you, 2007 senator graham, senator lieberman and i were in baghdad, and general petraeus on the 4th of july. general petraeus organized a reenlistment ceremony for, and asked us to speak at that ceremony. there was 200 and some brave americans who were serving in the military who had decided to reenlist and stay and fight. there was also some 80-some who were green cardholders who had

joined the military in order to have an accelerated path to citizenship, as we all know how long it takes today. and as i sat down on the stand, i looked, and there was four empty seats in the front row with boots on them. four individuals who were supposed to be part of that citizenship ceremony who had been killed in the previous 48 hours. nothing is more moving than to know people who are willing to make the ultimate sacrifice to become citizens of the greatest nation on earth. that's what america's all about, and that's why i believe we can pass this legislation. thank you. [applause] >> congressman becerra? [applause] >> bill, i think the people have been way ahead of the politicians for a long time on immigration reform.

but at the end of the day, it's going to be the courage of some of those americans to step forward. i think president trumka and all the folks who work on behalf of working men and women for cldeving that we reach aen would protect the rights of workers in this country. because in ways those most impacted by immigration have been american workers. i have to shout out for the dreamers. there is just no way we'd be where we are today if it weren't for the dreamers who had the courage to actually get out in front of a camera and say i've been in this country without documents for some time, and i dare you to tell this american that he or she has to leave the country that he or she has grown up loving and working so hard to be a leader of. the courage of a john mccain

and some of the other senators to stand up to the politics and to some of the hateful rhetoric, and i find that everything that senator mccain has said i have agreed with. so this is not a panel of a republican and a democrat, this is a panel of two americans who believe that our country can resolve a system that really should be producing good for america, not causing us chaos. and so at the end of the day, i think it's going to be the courage of americans to always step forward. we've always done this. if you think about our history, we've always done this. and i feel it most from my parents. i'm the son of immigrants. my parents are originally of mexican descent. but, and i always mention this story, so i'll just say it very quickly because you've probably heard it about three times from me. my father, when he was a young man, recounts how when he was in this country working, he walked by those restaurants with the

signs outside that said no dogs or mexicans allowed. yet he just worked, and he worked, and he worked. he picked every crop that you've eaten. he fixed the brakes on those railroad cars that built america. he canned the tomato in campbell's soup tomato soup that you drink, and he spent most of his time, as i mentioned before, building the highways that intersected our states when we were in the boom of building freeways in the 1960s. and '70s. but he remembers that he could not walk into a restaurant after building this country. well, he could not walk into the restaurant, but he could sure make sure his son got educated and became the first in the family to get a college degree from stanford university. and he didn't have to worry about walking into just a restaurant. because of his son, he could walk through the doors of the white house, of the most powerful and successful democracy we've ever seen. and that is what it's all about,

about having courage to just work even though you couldn't go into a restaurant, believing that you could pass a bill with a bipartisan vote, of standing up even though you didn't have documents and saying i'm an american, and let me prove to you that i love this country. and of being part of the working class and saying we're going to take a chance that we're not going to undermine our own jobs by coming to an agreement and finding common ground to come to a good bill. so i think it's the courage of this country that's going to get us there, bill. but at the end of the day, it's those faces that i think most about because while we hear those vile words from some, the people are so far ahead of the politicians on some that we're going to get there, and it's because of the courage of the american people i think we're going to do it this year. >> can i say we're not going to do it without your active involvement and engagement, and please keep -- treat your opponents, those who disagree with you, treat them with disrespect.

we don't want this to -- we want to keep the high ground on, in this debate. and i thank you for all you're going to do. >> thank you, senator mccain and congressman becerra. [applause] your life stories inspire us every day, and the work you do on capitol hill honors everyone in this room, and please join me in thanking senator mccain and congressman becerra. [applause] [background sounds] >> thank you, senator mccain and representative becerra. before we begin our next discussion, we'd like to take a moment to recognize the people who are missing from today's conversation. please take a look around the room and see the artwork of day

laborers from the national day laborer organizing network. these life-sized pictures of immigrant workers and families represent 400,000 people who were deported from the u.s. every year. and 1400 who are deported every day. these life-sized pictures -- please join us for a moment of silence to remember the struggle of those immigrants and their families. thank you. now we'll start our next panel on the economic aspects of citizenship. moderated by ross eisenbrey from the economic policy institute. journalists and documented activity antonio vargas, economist doug holtz-eakin and professor and sociologist manuel pastor.

>> good morning, everybody. it's great to be here. can you hear me? am i, is my mic working? okay, good. this panel, although it's about economics, i think it's going to be inspiring, almost as inspiring as the panel that you just heard. we have two economists and a noneconomist, and i'm going to introduce all three of them, and then in the order that they'll open -- and each of them will have opening remarks, and then i'll have them questions. so in the order that we'll have is douglas holtz-eakin, the president of the american action forum which is a relatively new conservative think tank in washington. he's both an economist and a political strategist, and his, to my view, his most important accomplishment in his life was serving as the direct or of the congressional -- director of the congressional budget office in a very sort of interesting time

after the tax cuts were passed, the last round of the bush tax cuts. and he played a very important role and was another example of a profile in courage at that point. he also has served as the chief economist of the council of economic advisers under president george bush. manuel pastor is the professor of sociology in american studies and ethnicity at the university of southern california. he's also the director of their program on environmental and region aleck bity -- regional equity, and for our purposes today most importantly, codirector of the center for the study of immigrant integration. and he's published a couple of reports recently that he'll bring to light today about the importance of citizenship. jose antonio vargas is a pulitzer prize-winning journalist, film maker and the

founder of define american, a campaign that seeks to elevate the immigration conversation. he is another profile in courage. in 2011 in "the new york times" magazine, he publicly revealed himself as undocumented and shared his life story of being raised by his grandparents in the u.s. from the age of 12 when he left his birthplace in the philippines. he has since become a national immigrants' rights advocate and leader for comprehensive immigration reform activist including the dreamers. so we'll start with doug holtz-eakin, and my first question to you is -- well, actually, why don't i let you each have five minutes of your own, and i won't even, i won't even lead you. i'll just let you talk about what you know about this issue and how important it is. >> that's good, because we probably wouldn't answer your question anyway. >> yeah. well done. >> well, thank you. and thank you for the chance to

be here today. it's a great honor. it is my first time in this auditorium, and i just want to say at the outset that i don't think i've ever been more flattered than the kind words of congressman becerra and my former boss, john mccain, about my work. but i will tell you when i was head of the cbo, neither had a good word to say about me. [laughter] so time heals all wounds, and let us hope that we can get over the wounds of past efforts on this topic and get something done this year. i'm an economist, that means i have the profound capacity to strip all the interest out of any conversation, so let me begin. from an economics point of view, citizenship per se really is not the issue. it is getting to a legal status so that workers are in the labor force and in the workplace with the rights and the benefits and the protections of all legal workers. having said that, i personally support a pathway to earned

citizenship as the most sensible, humane and american way to deal with the undocumented who have been contributing to this society for so long. the question for me in the end is, how do we get the votes? i mean, it's wonderful to have goals, but we have to get over the finish line this time. and i would say that a couple of issues arise in that regard. you're all familiar with these, but it's worth thinking about them. the first is that the house of representatives embarked on a new process. the senate property is done, and there will be a piecemeal approach in the house. that's a political reality that we all need to accept, and that places burdens on both sides. for democrats a refusal to offer votes for anything other than a comprehensive immigration reform bill is to kill immigration reform this year. i mean, you need to understand that in the spirit of my old boss, straight talk. if democrats refuse to vote for

anything other than the come prehenceoff immigration reform -- comprehensive immigration reform, they will kill immigration reform this year. it is essential they step up and support the house process that isn't going to pick up the senate bill. on the republican side, it is important that the vast majority of republicans who support this recognize that the disgraceful comments of a vociferous minority need to be ignored and that they need to respect the wishes of their constituents. there's some recent polling that was put out by a sister organization makes it very clear, if you look at republican primary voters, they think the immigration system is broken. they want comprehensive immigration reform. vast majorities. they think it's appropriate, as senator mccain said, that with penalties, back taxes and learning english that there be a path to legalization, and they support that profoundly. they're willing to vote for people who disagree with them on immigration reform. this isn't the death knell of a republican who ease trying to run for re-election -- who's

trying to run for re-election. and they 100% support the notion that the congress needs to fix this. it is inappropriate to leave this as an administrative matter for the president of the united states. so i have, i've worked on this issue for years now. i cannot say enough good things about the potential for a good immigration reform to reinvigorate this economy. i cannot say enough about its contributions to mundane matters like our federal budget outlook, but i would say that at this moment it is at the key juncture in the politics of getting immigration reform done, and i would echo the sentiments of the previous panel and say everyone in this room can make a difference, and i would encourage you to keep this moving forward in the house. it'll be a different way of doing business, but it is a way to get this done. >> well, before we move on to dr. pastor, i think it's worth telling people because you've looked at this closely, and

you've read the cbo report just what are the benefits. it's enormous. of this legislation, what are the economic benefits? a lot of people, for example, are worried that this bill is going to lower their wages or cost them their jobs. what is the, what's your view on this? >> let me say a couple things about it. for example, there's a recent report that came out from a forecaster known as regional economic modeling incorporated. this is a group that does good, solid economic modeling, and their estimate is that just the pathway to citizenship in the senate bill would create 600,000 jobs over the next five years. that's not taking jobs from people, that's creating new jobs. the whole bill that the cbo looked at raises the economic growth in the united states. you have three-tenths of a percent more gdp. that doesn't sound like much. i'll just remind everyone from 1776 til now the u.s. grew

roughly three-tenths of a percent faster than england. three-tenths matters a lot. it means a trillion dollars in improved budget outlook, a problem that has plagued politics in this town for the past several years. there's nothing more important than reforming our visa system for future flows that give us the skill sets we need, allow us to overcome low fertility rates in the united states. good immigration reform is at the heart of choosing the labor force of tomorrow which is act act -- which is about choosing the american economy tomorrow. that's what's at stake from an economic point of view. >> thank you. dr. pastor, can you give us a summary, perhaps a five minute summary? i know the work you've done, you know, has taken years, but in five minutes, can you focus on why citizenship itself so important not just a pathway to legalization, but a pathway to citizenship? >> so i'll reduce my life's work

to five minutes. [laughter] i did want to let everybody know that afl-cio is encouraging folks to tweet with the hash tag citizen to 013. i think those of you who are young know what to do. [laughter] for those of you that are a little bit older, hash tag does not mean what you think. it's a whole different thing. [laughter] with this generation. so i do want to add one thing to the debate that's a little bit different, and i would echo a lot of what doug said. but there actually is a particular premium just for citizenship. it turns out that when you do studies looking at the difference between the gains for, the gains to citizenship in a paper we called citizen gain and look at the difference in a cross-sectional analysis, you find out that citizens controlling for the industries they're in, controlling for human capital, english-speaking

ability, etc., tend to make about 8-11% more than noncitizen immigrants. and it's not just a function of the legalization function because when we look at california where we're able to control for who's documented and who's not, you still find a citizenship premium. and that citizenship premium seems to come because being a citizen gives you a wider range of jobs that you can move into. being a citizen encourages people to make much more u.s.-specific investments in their human capital, and it actually also serves as an important signal to employers part of what because going -- because of what going through the citizenship means as well. and these findings are not purely cross-sectional. we tried to mimic longitudinal work by looking at the years, and it pretty much scares with the longitudinal studies that showed that citizenship for the

same person actually leads to a gain. so there's a really important benefit to the individuals themselves and then an important benefit to the economy as a whole. because as their income goes up, as their spending goes up, that has huge multiplier impacts on the entire economy. but there's a couple of other things i want to say about this that are important. which, you know, have to do with the fact that when we think about what's going on with immigration reform, we tend to think about how it's going to impact the immigrants themselves. but we just did a study in california. we've got 2.6 million undocumented residents. but perhaps more significantly, we've got 1.5 million children who have one undocumented parent. that is one-sixth of california's children who would be touched by a path to legalization for their parents which would make things more secure for their parents, allow their incomes to go up, create better conditions for those kids to learn and create the opportunity for those parents to

feel more empowered to engage in their kids' education by being able to go to school, interact with the teachers, etc., etc. so there is an economic premium to citizenship but, frankly, there's a moral premium as well. if you think about the idea of creating a permanent second class of people who are going to somehow get legalized but not able to become citizens in the long run, that is just really distasteful in terms of what the principles are that this country is founded. i had the opportunity a week and a half ago or so to be at the george bush library for a naturalization ceremony when president bush also talked about the benefits of immigration reform. and being at the naturalization ceremony reminded me that there's a thing that's unique about this country, which is that you don't become an american by virtue of your race or ethnicity. you become an american by virtue of your willingness to buy into

certain kinds of principles, certain kinds of notions of liberty, of equality, of citizenship. and that is fundamentally what's protected by making sure that citizenship is an important part of the immigration reform. this, i think, is something that we have to be insistent on as part of what comes out of the immigrationing reform process. immigration reform process. >> thank you very much. mr. vargas, you -- on panel you're the person who can make this come to life because you're in the situation of being not just a legal permanent resident hoping to have citizenship, you actually are an undocumented worker and resident of the united states. tell us about that. >> five minutes, okay. >> we'll give you another round. >> no, no. >> or two.

>> so when they asked me to do this event, i really wasn't sure if i wanted to do it, because this whole question of why citizenship matters. but i, i have great respect for the afl-cio and the economic policy institute. i look a lot at the web site, and i use a lot of their numbers, so that's why i'm here. i cannot think of a more important word than citizenship because i've been fighting for it my whole life. citizenship is something that a lot of people in this country take for granted. which is really ironic given where we are as a country and where we're going and how we're looking at each other, right? let's focus a little bit on the economic argument. since, you know, i came here when i was 12, went to school, went to middle school, went to high school, went to college -- all public schools. i'm a beneficiary of the wonderful public school system

of this country. started working at subway sandwiches with a fraudulent social security card. worked at "the washington post" as a reporter for five years. been paying taxes and social security since i was 18 years old. as i've been traveling this country in the past two years -- that's kind of a walking, uncomfortable conversation -- i have done about 150 events in 31 states in two years. iowa, alabama, wisconsin, south carolina. i've been filming a documentary and at the same time just meeting people, you know? i'm a reporter at heart, and so i wanted to know, i wanted to look, i wanted to look and i wanted to look to the faces of people who seem to think that people like me are a burden to the society and that all we do is take. and as i've done this, i brought my social security forms which says how much money i've given into the social security system,

that people like me have actually kept social security solvent. i bring with me my tax forms, some of which were actually done from the h&r block just a few blocks from here to show people that i am part of the there are 11.2 -- $11.2 billion that undocumented people and workers have paid into the system. numbers are important, and it's interesting to me when i talk to people, for example, i've been in birmingham, alabama, i've been to alabama in general four times. and i do a kind of a jay leno man of the street thing outside of walmart talking to people about the law, and then i start engaging them, oh, i pay taxes. oh, you're the good ones. what about these all legal mexicans at wal-mart? what about them? you know, the economic conversation is important, but as you pointed out, dr. pastor, the moral conversation is tied to that. and, look, i think we understand at this point in this country

that there are some people who will be convinced by numbers. there are. and that's wonderful. but there are some people, i would argue that there are more people, who need more than numbers. and that's where it gets a little icky. and as i'm sitting here listening to -- you know, it's really hard to be an undocumented american. i'm looking at gabby because she and i talk a lot about this, because i am an american. my country just doesn't recognize it yet. to look at sometimes the farce and the level of conversation and the framing of this conversation that is almost laughable in the how much it's drenched in ignorance and misinformation. but senator mccain said i am not in a position to speak from

a holier than thou, antagonizing, you know? i am going to be as polite, and i am going to be as american as i possibly can as i talk to my fellow americans and tell them that i am not an economic burden to them, that i'm not actually taking away a slice of the pie, i'm actually making the pie bigger. but more than that -- and this is the message that we've been taking with us -- next week mark zuckerberg is helping cohost a screening of this documentary i've been working on. gabby will be there with me. and i actually think this is going to be a really interesting event where we're having a marriage of unlikely allies. i, of course, i grew up in california where google is, and i personally invited people from the day worker center to make sure that they come to the screening and so we understand that silicon valley's interests on immigration reform is far beyond hb1 visas and engineers. but this has to be further, this

has to be beyond the dream act, this has to be beyond visas, this has to be an actual consideration about all of us -- conversation about all of us. and i guess the last thing i want to say, i don't know if everybody understands that next month is the 50th anniversary of martin luther king's speech, the march in washington which was a march for jobs and freedom which is really in ways parallel to this conversation right now. and the quote that's been ringing in my ear as we're preparing for this event with zuckerberg and allies in silicon valley next week is this: history will record that in this period of great transition, the greatest tragedy is not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. far too many american people have been silent, and we need you. so -- >> thank you very much. [applause]

.. by workplace regulations, minimum-wage laws and other labor market protections but are more likely to raise wages than anything else. can you talk a little bit about the mechanism for how the work force will be changed by this? >> i'd be happy to.

but i want to say to the poet on my right, the numbers can win, they never do. i promise you. so keep talking. there are a lot of misconceptions, and sometimes also distortions about the role of immigration reform in the workplace, in the labour force and our economy. there is this notion that some help immigrants, undocumented or illegal will come and take jobs they're going to come and live on the welfare state. they can't do both. [laughter] and if you actually a bother to look at the data you will find immigration flows to the states with jobs not with the most robust social. so the idea that somehow folks are going to come here and not work is wrong. they are going to work. how are they going to work? they should work in an american

workplace with full protections of the law of the land. this country is a proud history of economic growth and commerce and enterprise, but also in taking care of its workers and making sure that they are safe in the work place, making sure that there is a lack of discrimination. go to any work place and look at all of the signs that are in the workplace, in the kitchen, whatever, about the things workers should know they have the right to have protection from. that's what everyone in the workplace should have come and that's what would happen. you can't, if you are an employer, the subject to an open compliance without exploiting workers pay them less, you have to pay them more than minimum wage in the industry. so i always found this notion somehow if this was going to depress wages quite bizarre. it's also true of every devotee of the 21st century, the one we are increasingly cognizant of,

is we are right now in competition with every worker on the globe and the competition has little to do with whether they are currently sitting across the room, across the street, across the state or across the ocean. if we are going to have competition, we should open the doors and welcome them to our country and get the benefit they bring as well. so i don't see this as a threat to american wages. i see this as a great potential boom. >> dr. pastor, you have anything to add? >> [inaudible] [laughter] >> i have one and i think that doug would agree that most are worried about too much immigration, too little immigration in the future. when you look at the fact that immigration flow slowed down to the country and look at the fact that net migration to mexico is

probably the zeros and may even be negative that if we say that we are afraid you will think we are crazy. >> [inaudible] >> it is simply because the mexican economy is doing a bit better and because there's been fundamental changes in the fertility in mexico. 40 years ago a woman over the course of her lifetime would have five children. now the rate is about 2.3 to the fertility rate in the united states is 1.7. most demographers are worried if we will have enough workers to move the economy forward to meet the social security in the future. the other thing i would add that is an important part of this debate is to understand how skilled and low-skilled work go together which is the point that antonio is making but i would make it in terms of members as well. because in every place you find high-tech workers, you find behind every software engineer

is an army of nannies and day care folks and gardeners and service workers etc. who are also part of those economies. so, austin, boston, the silicon va places with the low-skilled mexican and other immigrant workers are part of that economy as well. so we cannot divorce those to kind of labors from one another and you need to have the kind of legal protection in place that citizenship, the full legalization help to bring to those kind of workers. >> mr. vargas -- >> call me jose. >> you had conversations with people all across the country. do you have a sense of what it's like? you've been in the workforce, but can you talk about -- >> i can talk about anecdotes. i did a week-long lecture series at the alabama university of tuscaloosa. we are teaching about dirty jobs, which imagine about 100

people, mostly male, mostly white, blue-collar, sons and grandsons. so why they're doing what i'm doing, and at one point the conversation gets really interesting when this young man says wait a second. so my dad is a roofer, and my dad wants to charge that and then they come in and they will take off. isn't that unfair to my dad? a very valid point. and of course one of the things i really have to do in all of us have to do is listen. i mean, i myself, and thankfully this is where my experience as a journalist really helps. i followed sarah palin around ohio and just listened. [laughter] so wait a second. you are blaming the illegals, as

you call them. how about the employer? you are in the south, the same south built on the back of cheap labor. the history of the country has always been built on the back of cheap labor. we say to mexico keep out. and ten years later what do we say? jobs wanted. so instead of bringing these illegal workers why aren't we looking at the employer's and saying hold up the second. everyone loses. your dad loses, these other people get exploited, and of course you're right. i'm like well, thank you. and i'm thinking to myself is it because this is -- you know, i saw someone who works for the media and was a reporter for 12 years. the media, i hate to say this, has largely failed us on this issue. the failed less. not only the lack of information but the context. we have such a big narrative

problem. we have a huge narrative problem, and the disconnect has to do of course with information and numbers and what people feel, but also because we have not fully experienced the people and given them a context as to what we are really talking about. you know, look, senator mccain said all of this is going to be crucial coming and he's absolutely right. it's going to be crucial, and if we don't have these uncomfortable conversations in town halls and communities across the country, we aren't going to get anywhere. this has to be a town by town community. let's bring together as many people as possible and have a face-to-face conversation and not just get stuck in our little corners. >> nobody has said anything specifically about collective bargaining, and i'm not sure whether anyone on the panel can actually do that. but one of the rights that's lost to undocumented workers is

the right to go on to bargain collectively, to strike and get back wages if your rights have been violated. the supreme court has said you don't have the rights if you are here without status. i think it's time to wrap up. i'm going to give each of you a chance to see the burning thing you've been waiting to say. i will start with you, dr. pastor. >> asking an academic to say just one burning thing. [laughter] one is on this issue. labor is a couple of centrists and immigration reform. one is the issue of not finding competition with workers that are exploited because they are not protected in the way that you are talking about. but the second is undocumented workers have turned out to be quite unionizable. the expectation they are going to come and they've actually

been big drivers in the of unionization. this is one way for the union to build itself and labor has a strong interest making sure this is successful. but we all have a bigger interest, not just the economic interest that we are mentioning, but the moral interest. i moved from santa cruz to los angeles about seven years ago. the summer before i left santa cruz, there was a community meeting organized by some community folks. the people asked for more english as a second language class is and the adult learning center they asked for more college prep programs in the community college. they asked for a new community center and the organized 200 or freakin' to people. this guy at the street who had been the president of my kids pta, a mexican immigrant got up and spoke in english about why we need to have these things for the community to be able to afford.

and they got what they wanted, and this was democracy in america and action, just watching this happen. and that night, that fellow that was the president of the pta, the owner of the business and the owner of the house and whose daughter was the valedictorian of her high school was deported. it turned out that he was undocumented, he was trying to regularize the situation and got caught up with a bad lawyer and then he was deported and the family was separated for years with the daughter in charge of three kids who got left in the united states. that is not the kind of america i want to live in. that is not the kind of america we want to be. unless we actually move forward on this comprehensive immigration reform package and make sure that citizenship, full

citizenship, full engagement, full participation on democracy is a part of this process. living to our economic potential and moral potential. >> i want to thank you for the chance to be here today. one of the things that is different this time is that young conservatives see this as something that they want to get done. a very big change from 2006 and 2007. previous iterations of this from marco rubio are prominent in the debate. and it gives me hope that we will get to the finish line in this reform. i would remind everyone that america is a shining city on the hill. it is a beacon of freedom and it's also a very messy process. america is a messy process. i would encourage everyone to exercise power that senator mccain mentioned. but more than anything, i would

encourage those that have a voice in this and have been quiet so far to speak up. i think that's been a difference among conservatives this time, and if we continue that, i see a great hope to get this through the house of representatives signed by the president of the united states. >> you get the last word. >> i guess be uncomfortable. that's part of my message. i think we've gotten too comfortable having the same conversations and not challenging each other. sticking to the corners and sticking to our guns and our bullet points. and so why they give you quite frankly -- i would beg of you quite frankly to reach across the aisle and talk to people. try to kind of unpack this very messy topic because people's lives are at stake. and our futures are at stake and i frankly don't know how long i can keep weeding, you know.

>> please think this panel for their contribution. [applause] thank you. the future of im from egypt and i have hee than in my life that when we took the streets on january 25th, our demands were not met until this moment

i personally voted for morsi and the brotherhood and i took the street again on june 30 is over to morsi and his review. the reason why is because social justice changed and freedom. none of them have done that, and yet there were no intentions from of brotherhood to undertake them. the idea is when you vote after the revolution that has involved every sector of egypt and then you find a president who is declaring himself in the judiciary and holds all of his decisions not to be where anybody can actually sue him in front of the court and they don't guarantee freedom and rights and allow military choice, the muslim brotherhood is being tried and the people

that served them don't do this. there are many examples we can go through. this i would call he said this coup was sent to coup. democracy isn't about -- democracy is sent to be adjusted by the military. but this is the case and these are the only available options and egypt. this was the only available option media but also -- i would rephrase it. this is the available options at this moment because there is no way that the egyptians -- and military dictatorship even if people had voted for them. so my question would be given the fact that there are movements in the muslim brotherhood like without violence which call for the

leaders to stop taking to the streets and so on, my question is how far do you see these movements -- and we don't know if they are going to snowboard or not -- what are they going to affect the general sector of the brotherhood? many has been exercised by the international movement of the brotherhood. would it affect them or not. >> the question and i want you to put the microphone down there. but first we will get their reaction from the panel. >> i guess another option would be to wait a few months and a vote in the parliamentary elections. that would be another. three injured 30 million people cannot into the streets could have won those elections and reformed and maybe you wouldn't. now winced as having a constitution that gives military the right to try, you also have a military dictatorship. so i'm not entirely convinced this was a sensible course of

action given the games that you have that are american and not the egyptian come imet ascent adel fan of the space process but i'm not sure. i didn't want to make any statement to that effect. the second issue, these groups like the muslim brotherhood against violence and that sort of thing. i am not -- these groups have a list of maybe they are sort of like the -- i have a suspicion in any independent forum. if they do and if they end up having yet again that i think it would probably be good for the organization for the islamists, however, i would pause and wait and see if they end up urning support. >> of the discussion was hosted by the middle east institute and about the international studies.

to pick a i've been pushing for this in the senate that we would move cybersecurity legislation. it's complicated. the word means different things to different people. we need to get this done, and actually as hard as it is for me to say the house has done

something right, the fact repast some of this and i think we ought to look at what they've done, and certainly if we want to take a stab at giving our own thing in the senate, but we need to get moving on this in the senate, and this is a real threat and a real problem and all of my colleagues who were on the intelligence community are not but they lay awake at night worrying about cybersecurity. so we need to get this done. it's imperative that we do this year. if we turn away from the needs of others, we align ourselves with those sources which are bringing about the

suffering. >> of the city in this country is nothing short of a public health crisis. >> [inaudible] >> it is a window on the path to what's going on with american women. >> really in a way -- >> many of the women who were first ladies, a lot of them were you miters tecum -- uniters. >> they were more interesting as human beings than their husbands if only because they are not first and foremost by political ambition. >> when you go to the white house today it is edith

roosevelt's white house. >> there was too much looking down and i think it was a little too fast and not enough change of pace. >> i think in every case, the first lady really does whatever fits her personality and her interest. >> she later wrote in her memoir i, myself, and never made any decision. finally decided what was important and bind to present it to my husband. you stop and think about how much power that is, that is a lot of power. >> part of the battle against cancer is to fight the fear that accompanies the disease. >> she transformed the way we look devotees bugaboos and made

it possible for countless people to survive and approach. i don't know how many presidents had that kind of impact on the way we live our lives. >> just walking around the white house grounds, i am constantly reminded about all of the people that have lived there before, and particularly all of the women. >> first ladies a series produced in cooperation with the white house historical association. season to premieres september 9th as we explore the modern era and first ladies from edith roosevelt to michelle obama. the justice department held a farewell ceremony for the outgoing fbi director robert mueller. he's retiring after serving 12 years in post it attorney general eric colder credited

robert mueller with working some of the most terrorist plots since 9/11. other speakers include the former director george tenet and the tsa administrator john pistole. this is just under an hour.

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♪ >> good morning, everybody. and welcome to the celebration of the public service career of robert swan mueller iii. there are far too many dignitaries for me to point out by name but you all have the opportunity to talk to old friends after this event at the reception in the attorney general's suite on the fifth floor. but there is one person with us

today for whom i am compelled to recognize. the brain, charmed her charisma and class of the mueller family, his far better wife, anne. [applause] she's also his better wife. [laughter] bob mueller, an american patriot, spent his entire career in public service with only an occasional brief interlude. since the 1960's when he does a decorated marine for his service in vietnam. he has served as an assistant united states attorney in three cities, as the united states attorney in two districts, as the assistant attorney general for the criminal division, as the deputy attorney general and most recently now, as the director of the fbi.

so it appears that as the parks justice for the last time, hopefully -- [laughter] -- he will have held every position in the department say one attorney-general but then again one has to wonder whether this time he is really leaving for good. when we bade him farewell in the same hall in january of 1993, we thought we were rid of him for good. there is no sense in worrying today about what might happen tomorrow. george tenet kept his distinguished career in public service as the director of central and intelligence from 1997 to 2004, the second longest serving director in agency history. in that role, he had the opportunity to work with bob in the three years immediately following 9/11. director tenet?

[applause] >> good morning. it's a great honor for me to be here today to speak about a great public servant and my friend, bob mueller. one of the important things to know about bob is that he always is and will be a united states marine. service to this country has been his life. on seven occasions, he has sworn to protect and defend the constitution of the united states against all enemies foreign and domestic. and what that has meant for him always is a devotion to duty. to the men and women he has served with and lead to upholding the law, to speaking bluntly and directly, and as a young second lieutenant in vietnam to putting his life on the line. he won a bronze star and purple heart. his bronze star citation in par

read second lieutenant mueller moved fearlessly with complete disregard for his own safety and personally led a five year to recover a mortally wounded marine who had fallen in a position forward differently lines. bob mueller has never changed. his life has been defined by trust, discipline and honor. now when i first met bob mueller in the summer of 2001, it was a bit daunting, a little bit like the clash of civilizations. the scene would be cast as a man from mainline filly, princeton, high protestant with lockjaw, blue blazer, khaki pants, penny loafers, a little vitellus and old spice to boot.

[laughter] the first generation kid from queens who never played golf. very soon after line 11 a special relationship was born that allowed the two great organizations to work with a common spirit that has continued to grow to this day and a special lifelong friendship was born that allowed us to help each other in thousands of different and the unspoken ways that illustrated to all of our colleagues the importance of working together. it was easy because you could trust bob mueller with your life. you would walk him back in the back in the trench whether facing al qaeda or inside the beltway who would routinely come out of the hills to ban out the wounded. [laughter] everybody that's served knows what i'm talking about.

now, bob, going to tell the story of how much bob and i love testifying. mr. attorney general, know that you love testifying. bob had a unique way of doing this. the first time i testified with him sat their like a choir boy and never moved to if he said i can't move i've been trained as a prosecutor. we are not allowed to show emotion. i figured i've got to change this. so we would sit next to each other. you know how before you start testifying the usually cup their hands and everybody thinks we are saying something profound to each other. at the moment we would be in the middle of the testimony, and i would cut my hand and say something to mueller like bob, isn't that the dumbest question you ever heard in your life? [laughter] shut up. [laughter] here it comes, bob.

swim, bobby, swim. shut up. [laughter] it would be bob, are you really going to take this? yes, senator, not worthy. [laughter] but anyway, this very decent man transformed the fbi and helped keep our country safer. he's reached out to communities across the country, particularly those from other lands to understand their problems, to build bridges, to inspire common values, and to shape their perception of all enforcement in a truly unique american context. if your son or daughter wanted to be a public servant, they need to look no further than bob mueller's career to learn how to do it all notably with the old school values that will always endure. finally i will say this about

bob, he's not so tough. he's a wonderful husband, father and grandfather. his love and affection for his family is obvious and complete. and for all these years of service, his race in the hall has been his college sweetheart, anne. her love and commitment to bob and the family has allowed us and all americans to enjoy the benefits of what has truly been their joint service to our country. anne, your schley all and your warmth and your care for the men and women of the fbi and for so many others have been magnificent to behold. and as good as bob is, you are even better. mr. director, thank you on behalf of my family and on behalf of intelligence officers around the world for what you've done and your friendship and on behalf of all your friends, we desperately hope that you can finally find a job.

[laughter] [applause] >> thank you, director tenet. a great number of people have asked me what bob planned to do when the inevitable day came when he left the bureau. and until this day i have deflected the question. however, i am now authorized to announce that bob has been offered and accepted his dream job which he will start shortly after labor day. the job he was born for and has spent his whole life preparing for, drill instructor at parris island. [laughter] smiling. after a successful career in a number of positions at the fbi, john pistole served as the right

hand and a deputy director from 2004 to 2010. in 2010, the president appointed john administrator tsa, a position he holds to this day. john has graciously agreed to field questions from frustrated travelers in the audience. [laughter] at the back of the hall at the conclusion of this event. administrator pistole? [applause] >> the privileges and opportunity to be the tsa administrator. thank you. let me say a few words about director mueller. bob obviously the first thing that comes to mind i think for most of us is a leader, a man of integrity, a distinguished and dedicated public servant, humble, principled protest, an

innovator and motivator. now a few words about those few words. under director mueller, he directed and implemented what is arguably the most significant change in the fbi's 105 year history. i think that he has made a debate on what has been the most significant but i would suggest that is what has happened the last 12 years who is the most significant. he changed for an organization such as the fbi. we all remember the mi5 debate and with the post-9/11 world could handle the traditional law enforcement responsibilities that he was known for, and also correct intelligence that the us national security and share that intelligence. so george tenet is here this morning because of george and his cooperation and collaboration sending of the officers over to the fbi

headquarters shortly after 9/11, which then became the line for the director of intelligence that allowed the fbi and enabled the fbi to continue that transformation. so in addition to all of the pundits and critics, we have the official inquiry for the 9/11 commission force, the wb commission, the president's foreign intelligence advisory board, his own directors advisory board all giving suggestions, advice and input as to what the fbi needed to do and then there are the subject matter experts that actually knew what they were talking about and most of the others who were also giving their views to bob mueller. and so, during his time, she would say abruptly and successfully navigated to all the different and sometimes competing views on whom the fbi should be and how they should carry out their mission. and it's because of that that

the fbi today is able to serve a vital national security mission. i mentioned to you it is humble in spite of his significant accomplishments a few of which you have heard this morning and many which are not known and will probably never be known because of his humility. bob has never been one to seek out the limelight. she's always been quick to give others credit and mentor others such as myself. i think that if he could verify this i don't think there is a single reporter on his speed dial. we can check that to make sure. let me give one example will fall of the traits that i've mentioned. several years back one of his favorite agencies, the office of inspector general, had a mildly critical report on the fbi's use of national security letters. he has procedures and protocols

and perhaps some of the things we are having done today. so, bob decided to hold a press conference that the fbi headquarters. the last 12 years how many press conferences can you think of that bob mueller held at the headquarters? so given this, we have tables set up with two lines of tables and reporters just jammed in there because they saw some blood in the water in all of this and then the director and deputy director at that time was sitting at the end and the notion was to have everybody seated because that would keep everybody at ease. so he starts his statement and in the course of the statement he said you may ask who is responsible for the shortcomings and who is accountable. without missing a beat, he turned to me and he said of course the deputy director is. [laughter]

no, no. that may be a slight deviation of facts. he said i'm responsible and i going to fix this. so the part about fixing, mengin he is a motivator. that is when the motivating part came in, and i should say kicked in and i mean kicked in. we did get it fixed. and as long as we are talking a little inside baseball there is a phrase that is well known on the seventh floor of the fbi headquarters that has been uttered a few times, and sean joyce is here and has heard it once or twice, the deputy of the leaders need to know how to delegate and that is something that happens from time to time. thank you for those lessons because i've learned the benefits of doing that. so a couple of brief points to

wrap up. as you and anne start traveling without your 60 detail there's a couple of words you need to know there will be important to you, and that is the tsa recheck. [laughter] trust me on this one. >> now you know why you were invited. >> that's right. there you go. and so finally, on behalf of all of the men and women at the fbi who's had the privilege, and the honor of serving with mr. director bob mueller these last 12 years, let me express a found appreciation and gratitude for what you have done guiding the bureau through a tumultuous time with integrity and distinction, and on a personal note to say thanks for the privilege of serving as one of your deputy director's for

encouraging me at teaching me lessons in leadership which i have had the opportunity to use. now as you and anne douceur vendor that next chapter of your life, best wishes and god speed and all you do. [applause] >> thank you, john. to anecdotes are a looming about the great department, the attorney general and director mueller. one day in the mid nineties, not long after he left the position of assistant attorney general for the criminal division for private practice, but the beginning of the clinton administration, mueller called me and advised that u.s. attorney eric holder had offered him a position of senior litigation, senior litigator in

the homicide unit at the u.s. attorney's office in d.c.. bob wanted to take the job but he recognized he'd been the political appointee of the immediately previous administration and he did not want to accept the position in the career service if would cause any discomfort of justice so he asked me to run the traps. when i brought to the question to the then attorney general, she said with her customary subtlety that is a no-brainer. mueller is an outstanding prosecutor and he is fortunate to get them, period. when my leader asked bob why she wanted this job, less pay obviously and not as prestigious title was the assistant attorney general job, he applied to wanted to give something back to the community, and this was the best way that he knew how to do it. a couple of years later i was

looking for an outstanding candidate to serve as the interim united states attorney in san francisco after a seven vacancy and i was at a dead-end in my search. i advised the even deputy attorney general holder of my failure and he said call and see if he will go out on a temporary basis. the rest is history. he did such a good job as the interim united states attorney that president clinton appointed him to that position. in a perilous times when this department finds it necessary to go to the mattresses, there is no 1i would rather have at my side van bob mueller except for jim comey. [laughter]

i admire him and respect temps and as much as i hate to admit, i do love the guy. bob come from one to another. [laughter] give me a moment to collect my thoughts to but i'm not used to complementing the director. one of the perks of spending half a century in this department is the opportunity to watch a talented and honor grad mature into a polished department leader. jim cole like the attorney general himself is a perfect example of this process. he handles his assignment as the deputy attorney general in the most challenging times decisively, effectively with grace and never losing his marvelous sense of humor.

the deputy attorney general of the united states. [applause] >> thank you, david. a lot of teams are very similar because he has touched so many people and in such of the same way throughout their career. i first that bob probably more than 30 years ago. she was in boston, i was a young lawyer in the public integrity section and i come up to help on the case. i met bob putative he was one of the most seasoned senior prosecutors at the head in the office. when i met him, the words that came to mind were talented, smart, respected. as i looked at him i realized when i grow up as a prosecutor i want to be bob, i want to be that kind of prosecutor. several years later, bob came to

me in justice first and mr. thornburgh's office and then as the assistant for the criminal division. at this time i was the deputy chief of the public integrity section and i had the privilege of working with bob on frequent occasions. and i remember when dealing with him, a particularly sensitive case that would come up the words that came to mind where leadership and support. bob would not only go out of his way to make sure you have everything you need it and all the resources needed to be successful in the case, but through his own experience as a great prosecutor he would talk through the intricacies of the case, and inevitably you would end up with a tremendous value being added on those encounters. as we all know we have heard several times to the bob left his position as the assistant attorney general for private practice for about 20 minutes

and he did an extraordinary thing. he returned to the department as a blind asua. it was going through a period with increased murders at this time and bob wanted to help. as i saw all this, the words that came to mind where sacrifice, dedication and he devotee. he saw a problem in the community that had to be solved. a public service had to be done and he did it without any fanfare, without any glory and any reward. he just did it because it was the right thing to do. when the u.s. attorney's office in san francisco was going through a rough patch, bob was asked to go out there and put it back in shape. probably didn't want to leave d.c. but he did. and the words that came to mind or team player and again,

leader. he restored the reputation of the office and to this day and they still talk about him as the best united states attorney have ever had. since he became the director of the fbi, i have both followed his work from afar and have the privilege of working with him for almost three years now as he has transformed this agency in the week of 9/11 into the most effective counterterrorism and law enforcement agency on the face of the year if. working with him every day the words that come to mind are politically astute, why is and dedicated to the rule flocked. all necessary attributes that you need to work your way through the array of unimaginable issues that confront us every day.

so here we are trying to sum up the career of a man that has had all of these roles and has done them in an exemplary way and showed the kind of character we all want to emulate. who is given virtually his entire career to his country and he has done it in a way that serves as an example to the world that we stand for as a nation. when i cut that altogether, the words that come to mind best to describe bob is patriot. bob come thank you modeling for when you john for the department of justice and for the nation, but for all that i have gained for having had the privilege of getting to work with you over so many years. i wish you well, my friend. [applause]

the only thing better than getting to work with bob mueller is the opportunity to get to work with bob mueller and eric colder. both hour public servants in the same mold we're getting it right, the merits, the rules law and ethics mean everything. this is the kind of a department that the two of them together have established. it's my honor, ladies and gentlemen, to present to you the attorney general of the united states. [applause] >> good morning and thank you for those kind words and all of you for being here. it's an honor to be with all of you this morning and a privilege to welcome his wife, anne and their daughters back to the great hall. as everybody knows bob can tell you he's passionate for his work

is exceeded only by his dedication to his family so it is great to have all of you here with us including the little one who took a little detour. i also want to welcome each of the distinguished guests too numerous to mention that we have the former attorneys general, former heads of the fbi, we as members of congress, the senator, the head of the cia, it is good to have you all here with us. the former and current justice the part that officials today is an indication of the esteem with which bob is held and i want to thank you all for taking the time to be here with us today and also david margolis for being as you have seen an incomparable master of families. he was supposed to come straight to the podium and somehow he was assigned to the color guard to start the event. [laughter] we always have to cover for

margolis. [laughter] >> he's out of here. normally this is where i might say it is a pleasure to join you all for this important event but i know this is a moment we have all been dreading for quite some time. the day we have to try and do our jobs without bob mueller. nevertheless i appreciate the chance to spend time with a distinguished group as we thank him for his dedicated service and that what his leadership as director of the federal bureau of investigation and as we solve the prosecution for insuring america's national security and transforming the fbi into the dynamic threat for the organization that it is today. the service to the nation began before he became one of the top law enforcement officials of the country. before he served as the deputy attorney general or the assistant attorney general for

the criminal division. and before he assumed his post at the u.s. attorney for the northern district of california. in fact, bob's patriotism and dedication to find and distinguish his entire life beginning at the moment that he graduated from college and decided to join the united states marine corps. as a young officer he was entrusted to lead the legendary third marine division in vietnam and afforded his exemplary conduct he was awarded the bronze star to the media commendation medals, the purple heart and the vietnamese gallantry and he was praised by his courage, the progressive initiative and his unwavering devotion to duty. now, as anyone that has had the privilege, these qualities have remained his hallmark. now why would say that he is proud to be a former serviceman but i know that there is no such

thing as a former marine. and after he left the port and earned his degree and became a litigator, bob's passion for public service quickly drew him back to the federal government, and this time as a prosecutor. the next two decades he held a variety of positions in the u.s. attorney's offices and here at the justice in washington. he excelled in every role overseeing high-profile investigations and prosecutions from the organized crime and kisses from the infamous bombing. the prosecution of noriega and his skill, his intellect and judgment and he met the and natural sense of leadership. but i think the single best illustration with his sense of duty and his passion for public service came after he left the justice department in the 1990's after he accepted a prestigious job in private practice. now this was my story that

everybody talked about it so i'm going to say it again anyway. at that time, as you heard, i was serving -- [laughter] i was serving for the district of columbia and bald had been working in the white collar crime litigation for a couple of years he called me and my secretary said bob mueller is on the phone and he asked me if i could use a homicide prosecutor in my office and i said sure i wonder who he is talking about. bob said he was talking about himself. i reminded him he already had a great job and there is no way i would be able to match his salary and having already served as assistant attorney general for the criminal division he might be a little overqualified for a job as a prosecutor but before he could change his mind i said when can you start? before i knew it, bob was hard at work as a litigator in the homicide section heading to crime scenes and developing strong relationships with local

detectives and also important, with the people of the city. not long after, she became the chief of the homicide section and much to everyone's amazement, he called regular early-morning meetings after he and everyone else pulled late nights in the office. now this was at a time in the nation's capital was a city in great distress and what we call the murder capital of the united states. his work literally helped save lives and make better the lives of people who were too often on seen or who were forgotten. he was eager to make a difference, and he did. he was determined not just to get back from the other side of the courtroom to serve the people of the city, to make our communities safer and to represent the interest of the people in the united states. and that is why it was no surprise when in 1998 could become president clinton appointed him for the northern district of california he did that and a few years later president bush nominated him to

become the fbi director. the position to which he was unanimously confirmed in 2001. and the rest of this is history. i can't imagine the bureau or the justice department or my professional life without bob. since i took office as attorney general in 2009, and i started every day together being briefed about the most serious recent threats against the united states and american citizens around the world. and let me assure you, as much as i like this guy come as much as i like bob, this isn't a fun way to start the day. there is no question that the american people are safer because bob mueller has been in those meetings every day for the past 12 years. during his time as fbi director, bob served as a key adviser to presidents, a member of the country's national security team, and an indispensable part for me. in the years since september 11th just one week into his tenure he has had

nothing less than a large scale historic transformation of the bureau. he dealt adjust and adapt to its capabilities, redefining it as an intelligence driven agency. and he has led efforts to thwart and investigate some of the most serious terrorist plots the nation has faced since 9/11. ..

>> and that's why when his tenure term as director was set to expire in 2011, president obama took the extraordinary step of asking the united states stick to extend it by two full years. it's why the senate, once again, unanimously approved that request. it's well though i request -- regret that we could unconvinced bob and anne to stick around for another two years, or 12, i'm confident he will lead this nation not only safer, but stronger and more prepared than he found it. bob and anne, as you open an exciting new chapter in your lives, we hope you take a long and well-deserved vacation, i wish you nothing but the best. i thank you, bob, for your leadership, for your service, and most of all for your friendship over the many years that i've had the good fortune of working with you. on behalf of a grateful nation, i also want to thank you, anne, for your service and for your sacrifice for these many years. standing with this great man has

been a truly great woman. i know i speak for president obama, and for everyone in this great hall today, and for many others far beyond it when i say that while we are confident that he will be a superb fbi director and he will uphold the stench of excellence and integrity that you established, all of us will miss you a great deal. your example and your tires dedication will inspire us for many years to come. wherever your career may lead to come you should always know that you are and always will be an essential part of the justice department family and you also be a dear friend. before bob takes the podium i would like to make a special presentation. as the attorney general of the highest award i can bestow within the justice department is the attorney general's award for exceptional service, which is typically presented only once each year. today in recognition of bob mueller's leadership of the fbi, his contributions over the course of his career and his

exemplary service to the american people it is my privilege to present him with this years exceptional service award. [applause] >> because of sequestration gets to hold onto it and then i take it back. [laughter] there is actually one of these per year now. it is now my great pleasure to introduce the director of the federal bureau of investigation, robert mueller. [applause]

>> thank you. we've got to get out of here. thank you. thank you, thank you. and thank you to all the speakers for the hyperbole. it's always a pleasure to hear that. each of you be gratified to know that my farewell speech will be half as long as george his farewell speech when he left the agency. [laughter] >> i want to say what an honor it is to see so many friends and colleagues a relationships here that literally stand a decade. i want to thank the attorney general for hosting this event and begin the kind words from each of the speakers. animals as a look around the room, i see individuals made an world of difference to me. over the years both personally and professionally.

whether it be from the u.s. attorney's office is at boston, in san francisco, in washington, to my colleagues here at the department of justice, past and present, and from our law enforcement partners across the country, and our counterparts in intelligence communities, the men and women of the fbi. i will say, george, i was appreciative of your comments about testifying, but i will tell you that george has a selective memory. [laughter] when we work to, it was true george would complain bitterly about the tenor of some the of e questions and would try to get me to smile. and whereupon i would point out to george that he had been the architect of similar questions, one of those caring that they nets, when he was the staff director of the senate select committee on intelligence, and we had to appear before that committee.

[laughter] [inaudible] >> let me say i've been blessed with three families. my own family, my marin marine s family, and my justice and fbi family. first and foremost i am blessed with my family. my wife, anne, two daughters, and their families now. and i will tell you that many of us work, many of us in this room work long hours, spend time away from our families, reluctantly, but out of necessity. and our spouses and significant others carry the lion share of the burden on the homefront. and i must say our being absent from all made up on occasion be seen by some in the family as perhaps a plot. i'm reminded of one of my favorite stories which comes from a police officer who was a graduation speaker in one of the classes of the fbi's national academy. for those of you not aware, the nation academy program

provides training to state and local enforcement, officers at our quantico facility over a 10 week period. and as this story was related sometime after this officer graduated, he was reminiscing at the breakfast table about the good times yet at quantico. he said the weeks he spent at the academy where the best 10 weeks of his life. his teenage daughter look at him and said, dad, to be perfectly honest, they were the best 10 weeks of my life, too. [laughter] i must have told that story 100 times. regardless, i want to thank my wife, anne, my daughters for the patience, understanding. i could never served in these positions without their support. i have also been blessed by being part of the marine corps family. the marine corps taught me the value of service, sacrifice and discipline, the valley of leadership, teamwork and

integrity, lessons i could not have learned in quite the same way elsewhere, and lessons i've tried to carry with me throughout life. and lastly i've been blessed with my justice and my fbi family. as has been pointed out i have been, i spent the better part of my career, i would say this part of my group within the department of justice and the fbi. i have been fortunate to work with old friends, a new colleagues alike, individuals of honesty and integrity. this includes on the one hand margolis -- [laughter] butternut to all of you as methuselah -- better no dog as methuselah. [laughter] and on the other hand, my assistant, known to many of you. one that has often said to be the one who runs the bureau. particularly because of her common sense, her organizational skills, and i might add her

intimidation factor. [laughter] all of you know wanda. please thank you for her years of service. [applause] i've always been proud to say that i've worked with the department of justice because of that for which it stands, which is an unyielding commitment to the rule of law and to the safety and security of the citizens we serve. i've also been honored to work with individuals who have given the justice department its legacy and its lasting impact. over the years many of you have worked hard to advice me and most particularly to ensure that i kept things in perspective. lead roles in me to come to mind when i discussed this issue, and many may of you have heard this story before, but it bears

repeating. lee was a college classmate of mine and a longtime department of justice colleague, known to many of you. he was my former chief of staff who passed away two years ago and he is missed by many of us in this room today, but he does example five what the department is like. league knew how to cut through nonsense and get to the heart of the matter better than anyone. he also knew how to put me in my place. i remember one particularly heeded meeting. everyone was frustrated, mostly with me, and i myself may have been a wee bit ill tempered. wanda is laughing. lee, lee sat silently, and then pose the following question out of the blue. what is the difference between the director of the fbi and a four year old child? the room grew hushed, and finally he said, height.

[laughter] throughout my time here i have seen unparalleled commitment and professionalism. and i've seen firsthand the sacrifices made by those in law enforcement. some of our darkest days are those i wish we lose the special agents, lose them in the line of duty. days to remind us of the grave danger our agent, our officers and deputies willingly assume. it has been my privilege to work with so many dedicated and talented public servants, men and women who give everything in their power to keep the american people safe. men and women for whom the rule of law is the guiding principle. and let me close by saying that opportunities, that the opportunities i've been given in the marine corps, in the justice department and that the fbi have been gifts that it did not anticipate, and for which i will be forever grateful, for i have loved serving in each of these

organizations. and while it is difficult to leave his family, i leave knowing that the work will continue, under the leadership of individuals and in the department of justice and fbi alike. the fbi's motto, of fidelity, bravery, and integrity and the truth in this sense of those words. thank you. [applause]

>> thanks to his team for putting this program together. that concludes our program, and we will see you all upstairs. thank you for coming. >> [inaudible conversations]

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[inaudible conversations] >> retiring fbi director robert mueller took office in 2001. the week before the september 11 attacks. the senate confirmed jim comey. he was a former deputy attorney

general under president george w. bush. >> the african growth and opportunity act is a key part of trade with africa set to expire in 2015. today u.s. trade representative michael froman talked about the administration's efforts in the future of trade with african countries. >> i think first of all in terms of our overall approach on health, we do health and food and power and trade as part of a coherent, comprehensive development agenda with africa. and so there's no direct link which between one and the other, the linkage, we want healthy, growing economies that are educating their people and have the electricity to power the economy, trading with others as well. we want to see all the parts of

government, of our govrnment toe together. i think the example is a very good one. you are just doing a ribbon-cutting on a $150 million plant there. i'm not spent in october, fantastic. i think the more u.s. companies make the source of investment fancy success at able to get in shape that success to the of the american counterparts, one of the great challenges i think that africa wrestles with is the gap between real risk and risk perception but as our real risks. we should be frank about that. there are tremendous problems in sub-saharan africa from security to economic and social and government. but there is a time, it's not a homogeneous place as you all know, and there is a time between real rest o the risk on.

nothing breeds success like success. the degree that american companies are going in, making sizable investments in being successful, that can be a very positive carryover effect on to other countries as well, and certainly encouraging of that. it's about a bit of what the trade missions are about, the people who be leading over there and that's a dynamic we want to underscore. get to your point about other legislation and other support to we will be looking at all of that. want to consult with our colleagues on the hill as we make a go of it. their ideas for how to expand the u.s. economic relationship in sub-saharan africa. there's a lot of interest out there and sub-saharan africa. both in supporting the economic development but also very much as a market for u.s. invstment th's why i want to make su

we go through this process, we are doing so in a way that maximizes and strengthens the bilateral relationship. >> u.s. trade representative michael froman spoke today at the brookings institution in washington, d.c. you can see all of his comments at c-span.org. >> new jersey voters go to the polls a week from tomorrow to pick a democratic candidate for the late senator frank lautenberg see. we will have live coverage at 7:30 p.m. tonight. cory booker faces congressman rush holt. status and remember sheila alber and congressman frank pallone. that's at 7:30 p.m. on c-span. and all this week at seven eastern here on c-span2, encore q&a. tonight, charles bolden talks about his experiences as an astronaut.

>> i've been pushing for this in the senate that we would move cybersecurity legislation. it's big, complicated. it means different things to different people, but we need to get this done. and actually as hard as it is to say the house is done something right, they are fun. but they've actually passed some of this and i think that we ought to look at what they've done and certainly if want to take a stab at doing our own thing innocent, that's great, that we need to get moving on this in the senate. this is a real threat, a real problem, and all of my colleagues who were on the intelligence community, i'm not, but they all lay awake at night worrying about cybersecurity so we need to get this done. it's imperative we try to d this this year. >> issues on capitol hill tonight on "the communicators" at 8 p.m. eastern on c-span2. >> we never really know what to

do with our first ladies, and that is equally true in more recent times as, on the one hand, they are expected to have causes. you can't be a first lady today without a cause. on the other hand, those causes are not permitted to improve -- intrude upon lawmaking, or an official capacity. it's always been a tightrope, and seeing how each of these women walk that tightrope told you a lot, not only about them but about the institution at about society that they represented. >> this week we begin our encore presentation of a original series, first ladies, influence and image, looking at the public and private lives of our nation's first ladies. this week martha washington to angelica van buren, first ladies weeknights all this month starting tonight at 9 p.m. eastern on c-span,an ding

tonight program on martha washington, join in the conversation with the star and an author patricia brady at facebook.com/cspan. >> a senate homeland security and governmental affairs subcommittee recently held a hearing for the defense department can add missing military personnel. according to the dod there's an estimated 83,000 prisoners of war missing in action service members from past conflicts in the non, korea, the cold war, the persian gulf, and world war ii. this hearing is an hour 20 minutes. >> this hearing will now come to order. i apologize for my cold. i will try not to sniffle or cough into the microphone too much today. we are here today to review the department of defense's management of pow/mia accounting. our nation has made a commitment

to service members and their families that we will obtain the fullest possible accounting for the missing and recovery of remains for those who died serving our country. today, the defense department estimates that there are about 83,000 missing u.s. personnel from past conflicts including world war ii, the cold war, vietnam, korea, and the persian gulf war. over the last five years, congress has appropriated nearly $500 million for this effort. in 2012 alone, this amounted to over $132 million, approximately $50 million more than the previous year. these added funds were intended to ensure that the department had every resource it needed to increase its capacity to account for 200 missing persons by 2015, a requirement set by congress in 2009. on average, however, the

accounting community has identified and accounted for only 72 previously missing personnel per year. although congress has more than doubled the overall budget of the joint pow/mia accounting command, known as jpac, over the last five years, the additional funds have not yet yielded any significant increase in identifications. we cannot put a price tag on this mission. but we can and must ensure that hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars are being spent as efficiently and effectively as possible. according to a recent report by the government accountability office, the defense department's capacity to account for missing personnel is being undermined by longstanding leadership weaknesses and a fragmented organizational structure. in addition, disagreements and lack of communication between

the various defense department commands and offices involved in the accounting mission have harmed the department's ability to improve its accounting capacity, as required by congress. gao also identified significant duplication and overlap between jpac and the defense department's defense prisoner of war/missing personnel office, known as dpmo, and between jpac's central identification laboratory and the air force's life sciences equipment laboratory. the subcommittee has also reviewed an internal report regarding jpac's internal operations. this report, which was prepared at the request of jpac's commanders by a fellow hired by jpac's central identification laboratory, found that jpac's research & analysis division was so mismanaged that it risked total failure of jpac's mission. it called the division's processes acutely dysfunctional and also found that jpac has

wasted or abused taxpayer funds on travel and military tourism. this report was banned by the former commander of jpac and its findings did not become widely known until earlier this summer. these findings are deeply disturbing. however, since announcing this hearing, the subcommittee has heard from nearly a dozen current and former employees of jpac, dpmo, and experts in the accounting community who have questioned this report's independence and accuracy. i wish to state clearly, at the beginning of this hearing, that the subcommittee does not have a dog in this fight. i am not here to take the side of jpac, or dpmo, the central identification laboratory or research & analysis. i am here to give a loud wake-up call to everyone involved that it is time to put your squabbles aside for the good of the mission and the good of our nation. it is unacceptable for dysfunctional bureaucracy to

impede our efforts to bring closure to the families of missing personnel. to all those in the accounting community who work every day to find the missing, to identify remains, and to bring peace of mind to the families, i thank you. you should be so proud of the work that you do. and you should serve as an example to those throughout the chain of command whose pettiness, negligence, or willful ignorance allowed these problems to develop and remain uncorrected for so many years. i hope by the end of this hearing we will understand more about the issues the accounting community is facing. i intend to raise some very hard questions, including how many of the missing personnel can reasonably be recovered and identified, and what it will actually cost to achieve this mission. we need to get these numbers straight. the family members of the missing deserve honest answers about what is feasible.

what we may not know is how quickly the department can fix these problems. i assure you that both here in this subcommittee and in the armed services committee, i intend to stay on this until they do. i thank the witnesses for being here, and i look forward to their testimony. >> pleased today to be joined by senator i outcome who i served with on the armed services committee. my ranking member could not be here today, so she is sitting in that seat, and i couldn't be more thrilled with that and i will now turn it over for her comments. >> thank you so much, madam chair. and it's an honor to be here with you this morning. and i enjoyed when we had the opportunity to be the chair and ranking member on the readiness subcommittee and armed services committee. and i think since we both serve on not only this committee but the armed services committee, i want to echo your commitment to making sure that we address the problems that have been identified by the internal

report by the gao reports, and that this must end to make sure that we can do what's right for those that we have left behind and bring them home. so it's an honor to be here. as you know the soldier's creed includes the following words, i will never leave a fallen comrade. these words are memorialized, are memorialized and memorized by our soldiers, are just as true for our entire nation. coming from a military family, as i mentioned as a member of the armed services committee, i am determined, as i know that chair is as well, to make sure that our nation does not waver from this solemn vow. that's why today's hearing is so important. we have a solemn duty to recover the remains of our service members who made the ultimate sacrifice in distant battlefields, to preserve our freedoms and our way of life. they have earned our enduring gratitude, and stand as a

lasting model of patriotism and courage to us all. and their sacrifice has directly contributed to the freedoms and safety that we all enjoy today. that is why it is important that we live up to the words of a pow-mia flag. you are not forgotten. according to the defense prisoner of war of missing personnel office, dpmo, we cannot account for over 73,000 americans who served in world war ii. 8000 who served in the korean war, 125 in the cold war, and over 1600 in the vietnam war. there have been 37 american pows since 1973, and all have been returned except one. in my home state of new hampshire, we are still waiting to learn the fate of six service members from the vietnam war, and 43 from the korean war who remain unaccounted for. we entrust the joint pow-mia

accounting command to work on behalf of the american people to fulfill our moral obligations to find and bring home the remains of american heroes who served overseas. in light of the great trust that we place, not only in you, general mckeague, but in each of you, i am incredibly disturbed, as the chair has mentioned, with not only the internal findings of the report that was done within the dod, but with the recent gm report. anand i think the chair did it well which he talked about the leadership, weaknesses identified in the gao report. but what bothered me most was reading about the petty squabbling between the three agency in which each of you has

been charged with leadership. that is not the way we do things. and we owe it not only to those fallen heroes that we need to bring home to their families and to the american people, that the squabbling and, that we get to the bottom of this, that we understand that the resources that have been given to you, that as the chair mentioned, have increased, but the outcome has either stayed the same or decreased in terms of bring our fallen hero some, that we can do so much better. and you know, having served on the armed services committee and hearing about the disputes between your agencies, it really troubles me. so we've got to get to the bottom of this. and i want a commitment from each of you that this squabbling will end, that we will work together, that we will drive efficiency to make sure that we are all working for the same result. and that is, to bring our fallen heroes home, to be honest and

truthful with their families, to make sure that their families know that they are not forgotten. and so the reports they raise serious questions. i know the chair will have many important questions for all of you, as will i. and i want to thank each of you for being here today. and we need to walk out of here knowing, i know this will be one hearing, i think this will be one of many to make sure that we get this right. thank you. >> thank you. leading editors are witnesses. major general kelly mckeague is the commander of the joint pow/mia accounting command, which supports the department of defense personal accounting, search and recovery and laboratory investigation. general mckeague is in command in october 2012. he began his military career serving in the civil engineering officer in kerry's assignment in the u.s. air force. he has also served as chief of staff and assistant to the chairman of the joint chiefs of

stafr montague winfield is the deputy assistant secretary of defense for pow missing personnel affairs, and director of defense pow missing personnel office. he is responsible for leading the national effort and the false possible accounting of american personnel missing as a result of hostile action. in addition to having served as distinguished 31 year army career, mr. winfield was also the first commanding general of the joint pow/mia accounting command. john goines is the chief of the life science equipment laboratory. thank you all for being here. it is the custom of this subcommittee to swear all witnesses that appear before us, so if you don't mind i would ask you to stand and take the following oath. [witnesses were sworn in] >> thank you very much.ue, l

begin with your testimony. >> good morning, chairman mccaskill, senator ayotte. it is a privilege to appear before you today and i respectfully request my written test will be included for the fe record. when it took command of the joint pow/mia accounting command almost 10 months ago, i realized that jpeg could operate more efficiently and effectively. since then my team and i and all our partners in the personal accounting community have worked hard to improve how we account for missing americans from past conflicts. the weight of our sacred obligation as you mentioned is no better captured than in remarks, a sister of an army helicopter missing in the, recently shared with me. she said, the vast majority of the families were involved have tremendous trust in your mission. and in those who work our case. as jpac commander i have the distinct honor to lead a

talented and dedicated team of professionals. our noble mission is global in scope with investigations being painstakingly researched, recovers challenge by inhospitable environments, and tougher identification demand a world-class scientific enterprise. as responsible stewards of federal funding we are continuously seeking efficiency and optimizing cost-effectiveness. in addition to optimizing our three mission sets, much of my focus over the past 10 months has been to improve communication, coordination and collaboration. both within the command and with our external partners. to ensure jpac is structured effectively and efficiently to publish our mission, to establish processes which will sustain and improve the organization and missions into the future. and to provide a quality work environment for the men and women of jpac. unquestionably there are areas within jpac that offer opportunities for improvement, and we make consistent efforts to identify and address these

areas. given the complexities of our worldwide mission, it is clear we must continue to strive to improve our efficiencies and performance. steel sequestration and a civilian hiring freeze and furloughs do present us with challenges. however, i am confident jade tax professionals will sustain our priorities with fewer resources and balanced requirements to meet mission objectives. most importantly we will not waver in our commitment to the families of our missing he rose, our veterans and the american people, which is a moral imperative of the fullest possible accounting of those who lost their lives of service in this great nation. promenading on a wall that jpeg headquarters is president calvin coolidge's sage advice. the nation which forgets its defenders will be itself forgotten. the dedicated men and women of jpac, endeavor that this never happens. madam chairwoman s. in the eye, thanks again for the opportunity

to appear before you, and more important for your support of this noble and critical mission. i welcome the questions you might have. >> chairman mccaskill, et cetera i outcome thank you for the opportunity to speak about what the department of defense is doing to improve the department's efforts to achieve the fullest possible accounting for a missing dod personnel and provide answers to their families. i look forward to discussing the responsibilities of the various members of the department county community as well as the specific collaboration between the defense prisoner of war missing personnel office, dpmo, and the joint prisoner of war/missing in action accounting command, jpac. they so my experience as a first commander of jpac, i came to my current position well aware of the challenges i would be confronting. i know that the department's personal accounting committee suffers from organizational and structural weaknesses, which have been cited in other reports and studies.

many of these structural flaws relate to the primary problem recently identified by the u.s. government accounting office, gao. over the past year, major general mckeague, mr. goines and die, along with others in the personal accounting community have made significant strides to improve our unity of effort. but this is an issue that clearly needs further work. as i strongly recommended, the department had begun the process of implementing all nine of the gao recommendations. some of the issues raised in the internal draft jpac efficiency report may require additional attention and investigation. in fact last week under secretary of defense for policy requested that the dod inspector general initiate an immediate investigation into the allegations of fraud, waste, and abuse. additionally the undersecretary requested that the director cost assessment and program evaluation case undertake a

review of the organizational structure the department employed to accomplish this critical mission. fortunately, the gao has helped us identify and a thorough and objective manner what the department needs to do to improve our performance of the sacred mission of accounting for our missing personnel. i would like to describe recent and upcoming activities regarding missing personnel. last week, our nation commemorate the 60th anniversary of the korean armistice at arlington cemetery. where the president took the opportunity to recognize the family of a missing service members whose remains had been just identified. next week, i will be hosting the department's annual meeting for family members of america's servicemembers missing from the korean war and cold war. respect-430 family members from across the country to attend the two-day meeting that we will

have the opportunity to brief them on our efforts and to account for their missing loved ones. on july 12, i let meeting in salt lake city, utah, where we sat down and read it then and there was a missing service members from the world war ii, from the korean war, and the vietnam war. likewise, i have a great honor to address the veterans of foreign wars in july as well as the national league of families of american prisoners and missing in southeast asia in june. major general mckeague was with me at all of these meetings. i know he agrees that the families up, and our key external partners are as determined as ever to help us improve the way we account for our missing personnel. and just as importantly to help us improve how we provide answers to their questions. many of our families realize that we may never find their loved ones, but they look to us

to help them understand what happened and they don't want us to give up. it has been made clear to me that not knowing the fate of a missing loved one is as painful as never bringing them home. with that in mind, the lessons and experiences we've learned on our families and veterans have helped us shape the departments of you on how we account for those in iraq and afghanistan and how we support their families. i believe that with the support of congress, the department of defense is taking steps to address long-standing challenges to efficiency and effectiveness in the personnel accounting community. thank you and i look forward to taking your questions. >> good morning, chairman mccaskill and senator ayotte. i am john goines adequately serve as the chief of a lifetime equipped laboratory located at wright-patterson air force base, did not. the laboratory was established

in 1983. its function was to investigate problems associate with life-support equipment and resolve issues related to air force missteps. more than 30 years later and mission support continues to expand to meet task is from the department of defense, the armed services, and those of allied foreign nations. we occupy some 13,000 square feet i and building 17 at the ar force lifecycle management center, and fall under right patterson air force base, oil. zenith is to be within the dod, and based on comments received from numerous international visitors with regard to equipment studies and mission diversity perform, it is in all likely the only equipped laboratory of its type anywhere in the world. in 1988, the lsel mission evolves from the lsel chief is opposed by the joint kashmir solutions center, ma j. c. rc, to examine equipment artifacts recovered in southeast asia determined to build of accounting for personal based solely upon the equipment. the lsel conducted

investigations, studies and instructional programs related to a very broad range of military equipment which are designed, which are defined as life science. in 1993 the lsel was passed by congress and the joint chiefs of staff to become a support agency of the joint task force full accounting and renamed the joint pow/mia accounting command, jpac, in 2003. subsequently other agencies including the defense prisoner of war missing personnel office dpmo. this resulted in the establishment of a dedicated lsel, pow/mia mission which is manned by specialists whose work involves a candidate of missing americans from conflicts like the indochina war theater, the korean conflict, the cold war, and the worldwide theater of world war ii. although the mission coverage is complex and challenging, the staff remain steady to two enhancing aviation safety, sustaining and improving this nation out of resources, and i could resolving the status of our missing personnel for their

families. within this context since 1994, the lsel has supported 194 pow/mia cases and has account for the presence of 206 missing individuals out of 349 being sought. on average the lsel supports 10 cases per year with an annual opera and budget of $250,000. the lsel staff consists of a cadre of specialists of extensive background in numerous types of light -- life sciences equippage types deployed by the military service. through the use of comprehensive technical levers and a large collection of equipment reference exhibits inc. and by the lsel, the analyst endeavor to match submitted artifex to the type of equipment and specific system from which the artifacts have originated from. identify its service applicability as will the time period it was used. further testing can then be applied, often employ state-of-the-art equipment, along with the full resources of other laboratories and specialist at the air force

lifecycle management center, to enable identification to be confirmed. finally, all the equipment and scientific test results are translated into determinations. accordingly and identified artifacts like a piece of aircrew flight suit and help reconstruct the pattern and height of its host structure, reveal information about which military service utilize it, disclose other details about when it was used, and with what aircraft until, along with all other artifex and damage assessments, it provides an overall image of what the evidence supports about his previous user and the probable steps. based upon such work, the lsel and staff are totally dedicated to the resolution of the pow/mia issue and to support other agencies involved in this highest national priority endeavor, to fully account for our nation's missing personnel. i thank you for the opportunity of providing opening remarks, and i await any questions you have for me at this time. >> thank you very much. one of, i think there are three major areas that apply to try to

get cover today. one is who is really in charge and is the structure appropriate exciting and what i'm going to do about the infighting that answer them have we set realistic goals and i were using taxpayer dollars in the most efficient way possible? let's start with the leadership question. i have to cave in as i began preparing for this hearing, echoes of arlington became resonating with me. because we will look at the problem at arlington national cemetery, there was a lack of oversight that was really bred by no one being in charge. it was very easy to finger point. it was negligent as to who was responsible. output to start in redbud want to hold it up because the interesting thing about this is that the red box has a role.

look at that. i mean, is it any wonder that this is a mess? and the first thing -- frustrating thing about this is that back in august of 1993, the senate select committee on pow/mia affairs issued a report come at a want to read from the report, u.s. government process for accounting for americans missing in southeast asia has been flawed by a lack of organizational clarity, coordination and consistency. that was 20 years ago. and the notion that we are at that same place now is just a real head scratch for me.

last year the house armed service committee pointed this out. gao pointed out. what can you comment about the departments but it is my understanding that all of you really if you look at it, the only person you have in common that you reported is, in fact, secretary hagel, is that correct? >> does anybody disagree with that assessment? >> senator, i agree with you. >> by the way, none of you are in the same town boxer and there's a lot of layers between you and secretary hagel. what can you tell me about plans to change this ridiculous organizational structure that is supposed to be working on a very focused problem. it's not like this problem is disparate but it's not like we're talking about, you know, this deed for the air force or logistic needs for the army. we are talking about locating

the missing remains which involve, dinner, obviously science. it involves personnel. it involves cooperation of the various branches your but if we don't get this fixed they will be back here in 20 years yelling at you guys. so tell me, general mckeague, what are the plans right now for reorganizing this in a way that we can hold somebody accountable? >> as you know, the g8 oh, that was their first recommendation was to look for the department to consider some sort of consolidation. i don't look at this necessary from the standpoint of this being we all have different roles. my roll is 30 operational arm of the committee. i don't delve into policy. i don't tell the notification done. i know my partner too. so i can assure you that as part of the apartment of the gao's recommendation, recommendation number one will be looked at series leader. >> what does that mean?

>> i think -- >> who is looking at it and what is the time i? >> dr. miller. i will answer what i know. dr. miller has instituted a review that other d. our recommendations as you know the department accepted eight of the nine and a partial concurrence of the ninth, and we are implementing many of those recommendation to some of them have already been intimated and i would do the consolidation question to be at the top of the list. >> okay. that's not completely reassuring to me and i will follow up with dr. miller for a timeline. with a specific response is going to be. and this isn't something that should take two years to study. this is something that summit ought to be able to tell if we're going to look at the organizational structure and we're going to make recommendations for change by this date. and that's what i'm looking for. did either of you have any input

on a date specific that we can look for some kind of a plan -- i can well have different missions here but you can't argue with the fact that even within your command you've got to departments that are fighting like 12 year olds. >> senator, if i may, the department had, in fact, accepted all of the recommendations from the gao. and in response to gao and also the internal jpac report, the undersecretary of defense has directed that to reduce be conducted. first is directed at the dod ig take a look at all malfeasance. secondly, is, take a look at the organizational structure of this organization of the entire accounting community. he has not put a timeline on exactly when we will have the results of these reviews, but i will assure you that it is not

going to give an extended peri period. >> and we will, i'm sure senator ayotte will join in a letter to mr. miller your dr. miller needs to know we need a date. >> yes, ma'am. >> because we need to hold him accountable to the date. and i think will also direct the letter to secretary hagel that this is something that demands some of his attention to get this thing straightened out once and for all. and it's not that i don't think you guys are not capable of working with each other, but the problem accountability piece of it. invisible without over and over in arlington, that when there's a problem, it's way to easy for you guys to day with finger-pointing. that cia help our that's coming in, that's over in dpmo or 19 jpac. if we get this concentrated with some kind of very clear chain of

authority, then we will do a much better job of making sure we are not getting excuses as opposed to real problems that we need to help you solve. i have a lot of other questions but i'll turn it over to senator ayotte now. >> i want to thank the chair. and let me just follow up on what senator mccaskill just asked about. you know, the 2010 defense authorization, in fact, directed this very issue. in fact, it as the secretary of defense to implement a comprehensive, coordinated, integrated and fully resourced program to account for missing persons, and that's an extra permit right there. second, 541 set a goal of asking for this plan, a comprehensive coordinated plan to be submitted so that we could accomplish, as you know, recovery of 200

remains each year to bring, back to the families. and one of the things that the gao identified was the fact that because of the problems with the organizational structure and the dispute that, in fact, as i understand it jpac and dpmo actually develop competing plans, is that right? >> senator, based on information that we receive from both of our predecessors, we know that to be true. >> okay. so here we have where we have already as a committee said in 2010 that clearly a plan is needed, and identified 20 yea s already identified 20 years where this very same issue has been raised. los..

but the new organizational structure will be of one that eliminates the squabbling and the competing plans, makes a decision that is going to accomplish what all of us want to accomplish in bringing the remains home. can you tell me about these

competing plans? and have the two of you communicated about these plans? by the way, general, i know you haven't been on this command long and adopted many of these issues so you have an opportunity as well to set this right, but have the to review gotten together on these plans and talk through what you think as leaders what should happen? >> a couple points, we talked about a time line. there is one portion of the timeline that the doctor has put in place. he set a limit on the response of the review after the review was conducted obviously final decisions would have to be made. i -- when you talk about competing plans, again i've been in the position now little over a year and when we both assume

our positions -- >> but you are relatively new to this as well. >> there was only one plan on the books, and that was a plan that requested resources. they refer to the plan that was the one that was agreed to. we talk about the competing efforts the first thing that i was directed to do that and agree with my boss is first to bring the community together. the second thing he asked me to do is increase transparency. third was to support the gao. upon taking my position, we established a planning group that had new members of the community.

looking get the capacity and the capability of the plan that gets that requirement upon us today is the requirement is to increase the capacity and capability by 2015. we will face the subsequent requirement to be able to identify 200. there is no immediate return on investment. if we are funded, and we were to increase hour that occasioned there's a long process. there's a lot of research and analysis that is conducted followed by an extensive research or investigation of a specific area of recovery and may take more than one investigation that goes to the lab for identification. >> certainly i don't dispute that this process takes time in terms of the proper recovery of

these remains. but i don't see unless we get at this fundamental issue the chair has raised so that we are all working together instead of spending the time or duplicating resources or not having chains of authority how we can possibly reach the goal and most effectively do this on behalf of the american people would you agree with me on that that if the structural barriers are there and people are not all working together in the best way, then obviously no matter what time it takes in the process these we aren't going to be able to achieve that. we have done a good job on the effort. i communicate with members every day. >> let me gather the more fundamental question.

do you agree with the way things are right now he's had these competing that came up through the jpac, you've seen the organizational structure. do you agree things need to change in the organizational structure to make sure we get this right? >> we agree with the recommendations that were made that there is a need to take a look at our organizational structure. >> so just a look? >> it's important that the review is conducted and is going to take a good look at the assessment of the organizational structure to use >> here is what worries me. if you have been looking and looking for 20 years and it is evident, i thought the point was well taken that the lines of

authority don't make nuclear authorities of the would be the most efficient way to drive the results as identified in the gao report and 25 years ago and obviously focused on in the 2010, and i sure many others that we would pull out today. so we can keep looking and looking but we need to go beyond looking. that's why we are concerned about driving the game on this and we need to get the outcome -- i don't want to be here next year in the defense authorization asking the very same questions without some results, and i am sure neither of you do either. general, i know my time is up but -- >> if i could come of the competing plans were back shortly after it was introduced and the goal was established there were competing plans for

the research and i can assure you that there is no competing plan today. we have an integrated plan the took the lead on the capabilities capacity plan that included all of the partners had also clarified that the cooperation and coordination the two largest partners in the committee have never been better. i have complete trust as he said we communicate almost daily and i don't see the competing plans in today's construct. >> would be helpful if you have the same boss. i just think it's confusing and i would tell you that i know you are going to take a look at it and it's hard to make changes and the organization and speaking from a lot of experience in the contracting field, we managed to get a contract in command ( because of the severe problem. i think there are two ways to

get this reorganized, you doing it in the way that you think is best for us doing it for you. i can assure you we will do it for you if you can't do it yourself. we need to know who the boss is. i don't know if it is your fault and you don't even report to the same people. so your boss may be telling you a and your boss may be telling you b and you are here trying to work it out. general mckeague, do they have operational at all? >> both research and analysis have operational responsibilities? >> there are three missions within jpac.

there is the research and analysis and the recovery led by the investigations recovery team and then the identification part led. other than the attack on the report. >> i will say we do have issues in terms of the efficiencies. they were as deutsch pointing out neededur to efficiencies, and we have. i would say that he also was very helpful to us talking about the need to improve the production. >> were there parts of the report that you thought were inaccurate? >> i would disagree with some. the archival research was nonexistent and i would disagree that we have stagnated plan and that there were multiple visits to southeast asia sites that were not justified. those are some of the things i would disagree with.

we have had numerous complaints regarding the management after hearing from some any people we have to wonder if there is a significant problem with the management in that part of your command. there are also a high number of discrimination complaints are pending. what is your take on that, general? >> when i arrived ten months ago, we found that we were in desperate need of attention towards the communication, collaboration and coordination. in the command that has been my priority. it's been my pretty to improve morale and i believe we have improved it. are there squabbles between the approaches that both divisions take? absolutely but we can provide those any professionally enhance the environment and be able to

resolve those without bomb throwing and finger-pointing. >> we will have questions for the record but i do want you to keep us posted on the progress of how you feel that you are solving the problems within your command because it appears as we began down this road, we assume that the call report was being squashed because it was critical. now as we have looked at it part of it is there was wide disagreement in your command whether the report was jammed up by mr. holland to make the other parts look bad, that this was all about promoting on part of your command at another expense because there was a squabbling going back and forth.

i hated that we are getting into this level of micromanaging within your command but this flatted to the surface when we began planning this hearing and answered the phone and listened and it was shocking to the amount of input we were getting. frankly on the whistle-blower stuff our phone started ringing off the hook and the complaints were both about jpac both where you work mr. winfield and you work, general mckeague. we are getting a lot of complaints about retaliation about whistleblowing. what both of you address of a large number of claims of retaliation in your office? >> if i could address that part of you asking for a commitment for me to keep you apprised i can assure you i will keep you apprised. i will share with you and you may notice they put me in touch with an arbiter institute at the

consulting firm that looks at responsibility, collaboration and influence. there was the general of the hampshire that adopted the harbinger principles and i brought arbiter in to look at the exact same problem because again it is something that i saw firsthand that we would the most talented scientists in the world of the most astute researchers in the world would be totally ineffective if there was no trust and if there was no acceptance of personal responsibility and as a matter of everybody blaming everybody else and that's been my focus to get added to improve the morale and the environment within jpac. >> i realize this is a little bit of the pot calling the kettle black. rather than coming together and working together, i realize there are a lot of people watching this hearing that say they have a lot of nerve. but that aside, it is -- you

have a choice when you are a leader you can either lead by making the other guy look bad and therefore you look better or you can lead by getting the other guy credit and communicating and then everybody does better and i think what you have had is the former and not the latter, and i can't you've got -- i know you know you have a way to go. >> i would agree with you and say just as you pointed out we are inextricably linked. the laboratory needs a functioning effective research analysis section just as much as research and analysis needs a fully functioning effective laboratory. that is the irony. everybody agrees this is a passionate mission that they can be passionate about. and i share that passion. but they can't agree is the approach on how to achieve and fulfill foot passion. >> i'm going to briefly go on and save my numbers for the next question but if you would allow

me, senator ayotte, i am confused about the oris scholars. we began looking at these fellows and it years to me are you paying oak ridge or the department of energy for these fellows? >> it is formed of the department of energy so when we transfer our funding it goes to department of energy. >> are they making money off of this? is the department of energy making money off this? >> there's an 18% overhead. our payment to the d.o.t. through oris is 3.5 million of which 18% four fy 13 is overhead >> host: why don't you just saved the 18%? >> this was a program was started back in the 40's. the dod is the largest recipient of oris intended to advance the scientific enterprise. we use them with great results for projects and research and

the requirements within the laboratory. >> why don't we just hired a really good archaeologists and scientists? why are we paying an 18% overhead to another department of government? >> it is a bargain from the standpoint they don't receive a salary from us to estimate for the receiving a salary from? >> they pay on average about $80,000. >> but who is paying that? >> i believe it is oris. we just transfer the funding. >> the tax payers are paying them. >> yes, ma'am. >> i'm going to ask your cooperation for the record because it has been there since 1940 and there's an assumption that you are getting a bargain? i don't like the idea that one part of the government is paying another bird of the government and 18% hit on locating and hiring people who are doing work for the government. just because it's always been done that way doesn't mean it's

the right way to do it and i need to see a cost-benefit analysis why we are getting a benefit on that 18% because they are not working on the department of energy. they are working full time in hawaii, right? >> yes, ma'am. >> how many has been extended past the five-year deadline? >> if i could take that for the record we have currently 41 right now. >> and it provides a great recruiting and retention opportunity for us as well because in addition to the fact that we don't have them long term, we can't evaluate whether or not they would perform admirably as a full-time forensic anthropologist or archaeologist. and their slaton is still significantly lower than what we would be paying them as a civil servant. >> you understand when we start saying what is this? and i know that they are supposed to have been gradually did within five years and

mr. cole a little over 20 years, and there was all kind of issues about is this a way that you can get people hired that people know as opposed to getting the best and the brightest through the programs, so i would appreciate those questions for the record. sorry, senator ayotte. >> getting back to the question we had initially on the organizational structure and implementing the gao findings, i know dr. miller is looking at this issue. have you briefed the secretary on this as well clacks because i do believe that this is an issue that needs a five-year limit from the top to make sure that we are driving this and we aren't ending up in the same position. i don't know if you have an opportunity to brief the secretary of -- on this. >> i've had weekly conversations

with dr. miller but i would like to take for the record any conversation he may have had with the secretary defense. >> we will direct this up to the secretary level and obviously talked to dr. miller as well because this has to come also from the top to make sure that we resolve these issues. i know senator mccaskill had asked you, general, about the internal dr. cole report and one of the things that troubled me about it i understand there was a lot of internal disputes on the validity on it and why some of the criticisms were in it and did people have other motivations. but your predecessor, the major general tom, his response to that report was telling to me and it really struck out for me because he said that saying that it was here lie disavowed and

rejected in its entirety, i don't find a marriage in any of the conclusions or recommendations and there would be no further sharing of the report and concluded by saying the command wouldn't consider any findings or recommendations from the report. i believe senator mccaskill had asked you about the report itself. do you agree that there is nothing valid in the report that we can take lessons from putting aside the motivation of it? stat before i answer that question, madam chairman, if i could qualify, the oris program was actually 1992. i misspoke getting 50 years to that but by all means we will get you the information that you require. to your question, i believe that we have implemented recommendations from dr. cole report 3i would like to highlight the i think are bearing fruit for us that we

establish an investigation decision board to review the field investigations out come forward to review the research showed come forward with or not it would qualify for the field investigation. we also organized the command coming and now we have most, not most but supporting the personnel under one division for the actual field emissions. the last thing i think was a positive is that we implemented the field investigation team that went out to look at the site and that the site and in addition we have assigned a military leader to help with logistics. those are three examples of everything we have already implemented and recommended within the report. >> that was a fairly defensive response of saying we aren't going to consider anything.

so i do appreciate that you have looked at it with the odd and the one issue that stuck out with me as well was this idea of the military tourism. in fact one of the examples in the report identified i have no doubt that in order to recover the remains from world war ii you have to travel to italy and other places in europe. but one have highlighted an incident in which the teams spent five nights in a luxury hotel superior hotel in rome that was more than $500 a night to it and when it was combined with a per diem for the taxpayers. have you looked at that piece of it, too and how the taxpayer dollars are being used for the

necessary travel light do not dispute that jpac needs to take to effectively recover the remains? >> i can't speak to the specific incident. i would tell you as part of dr. miller's review of the jpac the inspector general will be looking at all allegations of fraud, waste and abuse in the report. towards today if i could fast-forward we have strict controls in place that prevent that from happening. our operational planning function is led by the director of operations, and neutral party. if they encounter and if they have had at least two operational teams made up of the functional representatives from the command to develop the mission set. there is then a decision brief that goes in front of my deputy to look at the country coordination, to look at the fiscal responsibility, to look at all issues regarding the committee and then finally comes to me for a confirmation

briefing. so we have multiple levels of control whereby other aspects within jpac are involved in the decision making process as to whether or not you're spending taxpayer dollars to advance the mission whether it be investigated for recovery. >> is this process something you put into place since this command? spinnaker was put in place by my predecessor and i just increased it as we've gone along. >> the constant re-evaluation of the self assessment we have after action reports after the teams come back we determined what did we miss in the operational planning function and we then had just on the continuous improvement process. >> i know that you will review the examples, the one - identified to do in after action report to make sure that the taxpayer dollars are being used responsibly so thatan corrections can be made but those types of things don't

happen again. i want to ask with regards to resources in for what you have received with regards to jpac, certainly you have seen some pretty significant increases. let's put aside where we are now with the sequestration if you look at 2008 to 2012 it's been about a 26% increase. for jpac from 2008 to 20 tough it's been a 93% increase and that reflects the commitment that congress has been wanting to make sure that there are adequate resources for the recovery efforts here but then if i look at of the members of the remains that are recovered, there is not a reflection of the increase in the resources as i looked at the numbers every means recovered between 2008 and 2012. it ranges from 62 come 71, 74,

94 and 82. but there really doesn't seem to be a consistent increase in that piece of it along with the increase in resources. so i think this resource issue for what you need and resources i know my time is up and i know the chair is going to ask about this but i would like to get your perspective on the additional resources that we have invested in this how come we haven't already seen is it a result of some of the issues identified in the gao report, seeking better results and what are we going to need going forward so i know that is a broad question and the chair will have a number of questions but it's important that we get at these issues. >> our baseline budget in 2012 when the additional resources were of it is 71 million. today is 89 million there was additional growth built into the appropriation from congress as endorsed by the department where

over a five-year plan we were going to be adding to injured 53 personnel as well as 314 million additional dollars to the program. that hit a speed bump because of the fiscal environment that we face that we are confident that with the balance between the smaller resources as well as what we need to do and how we need to optimize our efficiencies and effectiveness that we would be able to do so. >> so you say that essentially you haven't seen a huge increase in resources? >> madam chair the deputy looted to this earlier in his remarks. there is a lapsed lead time between training the people before they go on into the average forensic anthropologist means anywhere from nine to 12 months before they can go on the field of mission. so there is a lead time for that and for the research and analysis and for the recovery.

then obviously once above renames come to the laboratory it can range from several weeks to in many cases years or decades. last month we just identified a set of remains the would return to us in the early 90's from north korea. >> let me ask you this. do you feel confident both mr. winfield and general mckeague, that you are going to be able to identify significantly more remains in the coming two to three years? will you get about 100 to 200? do you believe you can do that? >> the goal for us the would be obtainable is a 10% per year increase. if we were to do that we could be at 110 identification's within five years. i believe that is a realistic goal and we would have the

resources even in the fiscal environment by which to achieve that. >> in order to make an identification, the numerous members on the community would have to contribute to the particular effort. we have made several strides that will allow us to increase our effectiveness and efficiency to identify more, for example on the right education laboratory have increased their technology where they need smaller portions of remains in order to make a dna match. when we talk about our officers, the gift made improvements on how we look for the family members in order to get the samples. in our organization you mentioned an increase. in 2010, we were given a world war ii as a portfolio. that's where the increase began,

and that is where we added some personnel. and again we will begin seeing and reading the benefits of that very soon. but it's impossible to put in an exact time line on that. so i think there are a lot of things moving in the right direction to ensure that we are working towards our goal as efficiently and effectively as we possibly can. >> i think you'll understand this environment if congress doesn't start seeing an increase in the number everyman's identified the money will go away. it's just too hard to find the resources for what we need to be doing in the federal government that we would substantially increase resources for a given problem that doesn't result in more productivity. ..

50 of them may be recoverable with current technology use. and 40,000 were lost over deepwater. of that, 40,000 were lost over deepwater and will never be recoverable. do you believe -- i stated those numbers in an honest and forthright way? >> madam chairwoman, several

groups have attempted to determine exactly how many of our missing or at the are going to be reasonably recovered. what is important to note is that we have a requirement from congress to create a case filed on each of our missing from world war ii. we have been working on that. we have about 20,000 at this point and we'll continue to work that. once we have a case file on each individual, we will be able to make a good assessment on exactly how many of those will be recoverable, if you will. so the analysis will be done and we will be about to give you a very accurate figure the near future. feedback is the number correct that approximately 40,000 were lost over deepwater? >> to the best of my knowledge, that is correct. >> do enough of the 40,000 are quick >> we do have names. we have a list of everyone that was missing for world war ii.

>> to read now which of those individuals were lost over deepwater? >> we do come and eat. >> haven't been honest and forthright with the families about the chance of recovering those remains? >> we have not released specific names. that is one of the recommendations from gao to create the case file and prioritize the list based on prior ability to recover those remains. >> why do you think we have been reluctant as it appears we have been to be reasonable and honest with the families? what favor are we doing that if we know the know the names and it was over deepwater and we know they are not recoverable, why wouldn't we rush to be honest and forthright with these families? >> mamma, i had the exact same question when i assumed this position. as i started researching that, when was told was there's a lot

of families still holding out hope. we say they were in a ship a few well and the ship went down. there are families who believe there may be inaccuracies on who was on the ship and there has been a reluctance to tell the families that there is no hope that we are going to find your loved one or be able to bring the remains back home. i will tell you that one of my agenda -- >> that just seems cruel to me. and i don't think the pow/mia community is unwilling to receive the factual information that you have to the best of your ability. i mean, at some point in time, is it more cruel to not be honest and forthright but the chances of recovering half of the number do you have been tasked with is somewhere close

to none from slen? you know, i disagree that you are doing these families to save her by not being honest and forthright about it. >> manning chairman, i agree with you. >> is keeping you from doing that, i was? >> no, we have to validate the information by the army graves registration service. assuming that validation, we are certainly more than willing to provide that information to families. what we don't want to do is say there is hope and then return a year or two later and they know, there is no hope. so what we want to do is be accurate in her assessment and that's what we're going to do. that's one of my main objectives to do what you described. once we do the analysis -- >> you do want them before

utility families? >> absolutely not. as mr. burkett to case files, will be in position to give families information about their loved one. >> and when will that begin? >> we've already started the process of accumulating the information. the charter given to us by congress and to collect the information on each of my missing from world war ii. the baseline for that, looking at all of the files from those that were lost and now we bring that information together. as we get the assessment, will start providing information to the families. >> senator mccain and i have discussed this and i will meet with him when we return in september to talk about this. i feel a sense of urgency about getting accurate information to these families as quickly as possible. i have a feeling that sometimes the bureaucratic need to finish the task, combined with pressure

from congress has inadvertently put way too many families in a cruel limbo when we could fix that in short order. i am going to try to help with that to whatever extent i can because you've got a lot of work to do that needs to be done. if we know that there is work that is impossible to do, this inner that we deal with that, the better. >> manning chairman, we are working toward suddenly do just that for the southeast asia conflict or vietnam war. we have categorized them enter the process of doing the same thing for the korean war. it is a matter of getting, as i mentioned earlier, it formerly added world war ii to our portfolio. we are behind in the most mature for a first as world war ii were started.

>> gath, senator ayotte. >> so right now in terms of family members, how do they receive information on someone that they've lost? do they have to contact you? do you contact them? how does that happen right now? >> there is a procedure. this is a kind of community effort in the process. the communication is under the service casualty officers. we will pass the information to them and they will make the presentation to the families. if the families have questions, information will be passed to officers and passed to the research and back-and-forth is the way that works. >> i would totally agree with senator matt casco said about i think families should get whatever information that you have because they deserve this. when you think about particularly our world war ii

veterans, that was just added to your statutory duties in 2010, but so many of them, you know, obviously now if you think about, you know, family members, spouses, we get to a point where we lose so many and i am sure that the urgency of providing this information to families becomes even greater so that they can now obviously know whatever we know. i am really blessed because my grandfather is a world war ii veteran. he is 97 years old and still with us. so why think about so many of them are going to be with us and i am sure they are widows as well. there is an urgency to this and whatever we know, they should know. i'd also wanted to follow up on this issue that general, you had clarified that originally as a result of the 2010 nda has

identified in the gao report, there were two different plants, one from bp ml niu settled on the jpac plan. we haven't received anything to my knowledge? at that ultimately we were going to get every pore. >> senator, we didn't agree to the jpac plan. the requirement was to create an integrated, fully funded program and the plan that was being forwarded by dpmo and it didn't those elements. >> so we are not there yet? >> well, we have created a plan. it is formally court made within dod as we speak. once the court nation is complete, then we will be able to release it. >> so when will we receive it?

>> i cannot put a time limit on how long it takes to get through the court nation. [inaudible] >> exactly. what court nation? >> every time we produce a product, has to go through coordination with different services, different staff, dcf. yes, that's pretty much accurate. [inaudible] >> we can't -- we need answers. and we need leadership on this. and here's the opportunity and i see both of you coming you know, general, mr. winfield, this is your opportunity. you have great challenges, but is your leadership opportunity to get this right. and we want to see it and we want to see you soon. so, we are going to be following up on this is dr. miller and the

secretary because it is not clear to me. ultimately, the congress asked you for the report so that we can get this right finally. so that is where our frustration comes from as you can imagine. >> senator, it is important to note that the agreement is we witnessed the jpac plan that was funded into the coordinated plan and we did exactly that. i think senator mccain would agree we didn't lose any elements of his plan. >> whoever's holding the plan right now, up the chain of command, keep going. no more nesting, no more court nation. let's see it. i wanted to follow up, mr. winfield while you are here just to ask you about sergeant. he was captured by the taliban in june of 2009. i know what is obviously, for his family, a very difficult and

troubling and horrible situation. i wanted to see great things for what the defense department efforts were. and it's very challenging. >> senator, sergeant duval is the highest priority and we are working diligently. what we are working on for the last year is to ensure that there is a whole of government approach to try and bring -- >> along the state department and dod. >> yes, that is happening now. so the effort is fair, the focus is there and we have the right people working to find information and bring him home to his mother and father. >> i just wanted to raise sergeant birkdale in today's hearings of people understand he is very much on our minds and from the highest levels of government. thank you. >> i think the most important thing to remember when you go back to your jobs and you've got one of those moments were sent

agosta reprocess and, you know, the term coordination really means lost any deep black hole in the pentagon, when you have those days that it's gone somewhere for somebody else's eyes and is supposed to be back, i want you to hear my voice in your head, get a done. meaning, we are not going to be patient about this. this has been a problem for 20 years and we want the plan. we want the reorganization of this effort so there is not so many cooks in the kitchen that are in charge, that there is one chef that we can blame if the numbers aren't there, and by the way, it is going to help you get the resources you need. it makes your job so much easier >> you're my voice, too. our voices will be together.

>> this is ridiculously hard for you because we are a dog with a this test. you better get used to this room because he will be back here a lot if we don't get dates and we don't have plans and we don't get some thing that looks like a test. in business class is to be a case study of how you make sure you don't get results and accountability. briefly before we close here, i want to ask about the jpac lab in nebraska. what purposes the lab serving in how much does it cost? >> we just open the laboratory at the air force base, nebraska in june of this year. it provides us the additional capacity and capability identified within the congressional mandate. it cost us a little over

5.2 million. we ended up revitalizing and reusing existing facility on the base and that laboratory annexes up and running as a june 1st. >> are they performing identification? >> they have their first case from vietnam. it is the case of 10 disinter men's from cemetery in your home state. they are working on that case right now. >> that's terrific and i want to make sure they are up and running. i actually was how you have it on a positive note, $5.2 million sounds like a reasonable number in the grand scheme of numbers that i look at constantly at the department. >> ask him a renovation of the existing facility provides a state-of-the-art facility. because the hiring freeze, the laboratory personnel are working with the united states pacific command and dod on the iran

issue. >> that's great. any other persons? >> now, i may have some questions for the record, but as the chair said, we will meet again. thank you all for being here. >> i know you all are trying. our job is to do oversight. our job is to make you accountable and we are going to do that. i do understand you have a sacred nation. i am a standard dedicated public servant we do not diminish the service in any way. we want to get this fixed so that our successors years from our man why would these senators so lame they could get it done when they tried back in 2013? thank you all. >> thank you. great leadership opportunities here as well and service records, we thank you for your distinguished service records to

be the right theater needed at the right time to get this right for the american people, so thank you. >> thank you. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> here's a look at some of what

she had to say. >> you mentioned your feud with rick perry. are you thinking about running to succeed him as governor? >> well, a lot of people are asking me that question lately as you can imagine. and i am working very hard to decide what my next steps will be. i do think that in texas, people feel like we need a change from the very fractured, very partisan leadership that we are seen in our state government right now. >> what about a bid for another statewide office other than governor? perhaps u.s. senator lieutenant governor, usually the most powerful office in texas? >> i can say with absolute certainty i will run for one of two offices, either my state senate seat for the governor. [applause]

>> one more question on these lines. would you consider running as vp candidate with hillary clinton? [laughter] [applause] >> in answer to that, i would say we will have to find out whether hillary is planning to run for president first. >> texas state senator, wendy davis, also addressed the political climate in texas, education funding and women's health care. see her entire remarks at the national press club at the standout work. >> new jersey voters go to the polls a week from tomorrow to pick a democratic candidate for the late senator frank lab berkeley b.c. c-span will have live coverage at 7:30 eastern tonight's candidate debate. newark mayor cory booker faces rush holt, state assembly member sheila oliver and congressman frank.

>> i've been pushing for this in a senate that would remove cybersecurity legislation. it's big, complicated, but it means different things to different people, but we need to get this done. actually, sr is that as it is for me to say the house is done something right -- into thing about that. they are fine. they've actually passed some of this and we have to look at what they've done and certainly if we want to take a stab at doing our own thing in the senate, that's great. we need to get moving on this in the senate and this is a real threat, a real problem and all of my colleagues on the intelligence committee all they

worried about cybersecurity, so we need to get this done. it's imperative we get it done this year. >> issues on capitol hill tonight on "the communicators" at 8:00 eastern on c-span 2. >> we've never really known what to do with our first ladies and that is particularly true in more recent times. on the one hand, they are expected to have causes. you couldn't imagine a first lady today without a cause. on the other hand, those causes are not permitted to intrude upon lawmaking or an official capacity. so it is always been a type moment. seeing how each of these women walk that tightrope tells you a lot, not only about them, but about the institution and about the society that they represented. >> this week we begin our encore

presentation of original series, first ladies: influence an image, looking at the public and private lives of the first ladies. this week martha washington to angelica van buren. starting tonight at 9:00 p.m. eastern on c-span entering tonight's program on martha washington, joining a conversation with historian and author, patricia brady at facebook.com/c-span. >> former agency heads and former lawmakers gathered in washington last week at the bipartisan policy center to discuss the challenges and politics surrounding the federal budget process. including former hhs secretary, tommy thompson and former faa administrator, jane garvey. this is just over an hour. [inaudible conversations]

>> okay, good morning. welcome to the session, which we are calling budget on the brink, cosponsored by the bipartisan policy center at george mason university center for public service. i am paul poster, director of the public mistry should programs at george mason. this is part of a longer-term multimedia project, which we are undertaking at george mason, per the history transit federal budgeting over the past 40 years. the past decade have not been uneventful for budgeting, swinging from deficit surplus back to deficit again. and while today's economic ties are slowly lifting us out of the

recession induced deficits, government leaders are admired and almost unprecedented gridlock that seems to threaten the appropriation and continuity of government itself. it's no wonder we call the session budgeting at the brink. mark twain once said that history doesn't repeat itself, but it rhymes we are committed to the proposition that useful. ugly to look back in order to move forward. today's challenges are truly novel or do they resemble previous battles. what can we learn from previous battles in previous issues to inform our current seemingly intractable budget systems. that is really the focus of this meeting. we had our first session together in november of 2011 -- 2012 and a son in 1990 budget agreement and we issued a report this back in the room there, were brought together people

like speaker tom foley, white house staff director john sununu, senator domenici and others to reflect on the lessons learned from achieving the grand arkin of yesterday and what application it might have today. one constant over the years in the past several decades and increasingly progressive paralysis in our collective ability to make decisions on annual budget and appropriations. what i'm talking about the elusive grand bargain income i talk about the mundane actions to provide funding for ongoing operations and programs of the government. the consequences of gridlock for budgeting is very different than consequences of gridlock for immigration and social security. if we don't pass those programs, we'll have to see another day. if we don't have another budget, we shut down. fundamentally, these issues of how you achieve agreement on these terms are vital to everything government does. along these lines, over the past

37 years, bill joyce at the university of maryland has calculated that we've only had full appropriations before the budget year starts in four of those past 37 years. agencies have learned to cope with a variety of temporary measures, which we in washington called continuing resolutions in many cases five or six a year or so increasingly government grantees, contractors are in a short-term leash. the uncertainty that is provoked by this has become the new normal in washington and throughout the country. this degree of uncertainty is ratcheted to new levels of the current budget sequesters. the device that cuts across programs universally regardless of whether they are effective or ineffective, agencies will literally cut in the middle between the congress buying for public support. planning was the victim of high-profile battles a sequestered as agencies really never knew for sure whether the acts would follow them and how.

this session will review how policymakers and agency managers alike with this incredible conflict that has befallen the budget process. how do leaders in the congress and the white house and agencies adapt? we are really fortunate to assemble the wonderful slate of analysts today. both political leaders from recent pass as well as budgetary experts you can make this system really work. i am going to now turn the program over to our first and second panels. the first one is being led by bill hoagland put the bipartisan policy center. he needs no introduction. having served as staff director to the budget committee for many years and assisted to the senate majority leader. he is going to introduce his panel as we go forward. the second panel, which will continue after this one is to be moderated by john at 10 rule

staff at olympia and director of the ibm center on the business of government. with that, but they hand the moderator over to bill copeman and we'll get started. >> thank you, paul. good morning, everyone welcome to the bipartisan policy center. it's a pleasure to be cohosting this discussion was george mason university. some wise person once said that the further back you look, the further ahead you can see. as paul indicated, part of this forum was to be an oral history looking back on the budget with folks that have lived the history of it. i have a feeling we will be looking ahead more here than looking back as we go forward. unfortunately, we are restrained by time and we have five very distinguished public servants who have labored these deniers. federal, state and local budgeting over decades. rather than take the time to introduce each one of them here,

you have their bios. i will introduce them briefly as i asked them the first round of questions, looking back on our history. we will then have time for a second round of questions looking forward, what they might see coming this fall and time permitting within an hour or so, have an opportunity for you to ask questions of them yourselves. ..