>> we have more coverage ofave f nonfiction books every weekend on booktv. .. >> this week on q. end date,

former ohio republican congressman bob ney discusses his newly-released memoir titled "sideswiped" subfour. c-span: former congressman bob ney in a chapter headlined pretty alice, you called pretty alice the most covert manipulative cunning stealth vicious cold hearted instrumented evil that karl rove and the bush administrative head >> guest: i must have left out a couple of things but alice fisher. alice fisher is a very interesting person that received attention from senator levin and particular and that basically kind of went away as i explained in the book but alice fisher had really never particulaparticula rly tried cases and was criticized for that. she was in the criminal visit --

division went over to work for chertoff. she was basically by the white house directly placed here and there is they needed her. an extreme political operative and a business where there is politics and in the bush-cheney re-election campaign etc.. i don't want to say she was a political hack and i don't want to be unkind but i will say political hack. she was up for appointment when alberto gonzalez was the attorney general in the united states. briana fouled in the reason it did was because he said she was close to tom delay's defense team. she had deals with his defense team and b she didn't have a lot of experience trying cases. the most important part was she was so still found this and that is where it bring in the whole cheney torture guantánamo bay alberto gonzález flair to this thing is that she was approached when she was in the criminal division of the justice department by the fbi and this is you now available through wikipedia etc..

it's not something i created and she was part of saying torture, suppress that. she was part of that whole cover-up. she was not just a person that was an attorney. she was in a power position to be able to say no. torture, we will let that be suppressed a bit. right coast so, you plea bargained and was the plea bargain, to her? >> guest: she was in the criminal division and she made the announcements. i call her pretty alice as i stated in the book. we were at press conferences and i would be with my attorneys. she would put on this red dress and she would need called up and smiling for the cameras and i would look up and say pretty alice and it became an inside joke with my attorneys and i and i incorporated that into the chapter pretty alice. the reason it was important to her and i didn't connect all of these dots frankly until later during my prison time and afterwards of the exact integral part of alice and john boehner

at that time majority leader barry jackson who is his chief of staff that worked for karl rove at the white house and my former chief of staff. i didn't put all those pieces together together but one of that happening when she was being criticized by senator levin to close to taunt delay's defense team. tom delay was under scrutiny by the justice department which was taken away in the other part two it was that she had been part of this cover-up of torture. now, her appointment was basically in trouble as everybody knew from senator levin going to the floor of the senate. at some point in time when john boehner in august called me and cut a deal with me the majority leader at that point in time and he said i had 24 hours to consider this deal or it would be a relevant that in fact i would be able to get a job comparable to the salary i made in congress and he would help me raise defense money to put this behind me, this whole problem i had with the justice department if in fact i pulled out of the

election. i needed to say publicly i'm not running. they then we get a replacement which congressman boehner named from ohio. c-span: what you wear this event? >> guest: this was 2006 in august. i had 24 four hours likely remember john boehner saying if you are are except as an 24 hours it's off the table. i called within 24 hours after a lot of soul-searching and i said fine i will take the deal. comparable salary of my new job and help me raise defense money to fight this thing and put it behind me. i had just won the primary in 2006. boehner skull made a significant difference of me getting out just in time so they could find someone to run in my place now after that and i announced and officially sent my letter to the secretary of state of ohio i couldn't get a janitor in john boehner's office to call me back it all evaporated. soon after that into the september or so timeframe my

lawyers had the justice department full steam ahead. an indictment, multiple indictments or a plea, take your pick. at the appointed time and made the decision to take the plea. by september the 13th or so alice fisher solves her of prosecution on the abramoff case and that was me. all of a sudden the plea was let out. they had a plea in process and alice fisher was onto her appointment process and that is where if you read the book i believe the dots connect. c-span: here is the woman you referred to as pretty alice. >> international and domestic trips such as a trip to scotland with others valued at $160,000 compact trip to new orleans valued at $7000 comp got a trip to lake george valued at $3500 thousands of dollars of meals, to drinks, tickets to concerts come to tickets to sporting events and use of a box suite to

conduct fund-raisers. in exchange for this stream of benefits as congressman ney admits, he agreed to perform a series of official acts including agreeing to insert for separate and unrelated amendments to election reform legislation, statements in the congressional record and agreeing to support jack abramoff's client and obtaining a multi-million dollar contract. and he concealed the sections from the public and the house of representatives by filing inaccurate disclosure statements. c-span: anything she said that was wrong? >> guest: first of all let me make it crystal clear. i committed illegal acts, unethical acts, improper acts. i took free food from jack abramoff. i took free loose from jack abramoff so i don't deny any of that. i created this problem myself and i admit that up front

however she mentions a lake george trip. i was not indicted or asked for a plea on that trip. that lake george trip i paid. the people went on that trip know that in the people they downloaded some of my former staff they know that too that trip was the bulk of it was a personal trip. trip. four friends trip. four friends took it and i paid my way on that trip great as far as the thousands of dollars which the justice department estimates of $6000 at jack abramoff's restaurant by staff and i took food and alcohol, that's true in the estimated about 6000 over a period up i think it was three years. that is accurate. what she fails to mention is one i would go to jack abramoff's restaurant i would have to push the staffers aside to get a drink at the bar. they would give me free drinks too which is fine. i am my own problem on this but when she mentions kind of highlights amendment's, this is

the one that really gets me. amendments, inserting amendments into the act. i inserted no amendment for jack abramoff in my legacy bella steny hoyer. the first official election bill given the federal government and part of the nations history was an important bill. i was on the congress committee with senator dodd and any of those gentlemen would verify at no point in time did we lay it on the table and at no point in time did i i say here is an amendment for jack abramoff. did i agree to consider an amendment for jack abramoff for that dull? yes, absolutely. i'm probably one of the first members of congress in this country's history in modern times to plead a felony for agreeing to consider an amendment to a bill. if they would go to the hill today and charged felony some

people considering amendments to a bill that would be barely anybody left on capitol hill. c-span: when did you know that you were doing something wrong? >> guest: they were bright lines that i cross. for example and jack abramoff came into my office and said i have an amendment for the help america vote act he said members of the senate were injured in -- interested in this. i is a member of the house said very clearly to jack abramoff that i would consider this amendment which is my felony for the considering of an amendment. the other thing is that if the senate wanted this amendment of course. if senators want that amendment and it doesn't ruin my bill i would consider it. at that point in time we didn't have an actual amendment and that in itself is a problem to just generically consider something that the lobbyists want and to say yes i will consider that than i think that is in a problem in itself. but the bright line is when we

received a member of my staff received an e-mail, and it said if you want to go to jack's restaurant and if you want to eat and drink myself in the office of the staff would take responsibility that none of us were going then it's going to be taken care of. whether it's by jack or my former staff or whoever whatever lobbyists. that was the crossing of the bright line. the other was the scotland trip. as a note in the book i came back and i said at that point in time i had written a check because they knew that did not smell right. there were bright lines are that cross. when did i know? there were definite signs, probably probably within a six-month period of meeting jack abramoff that i should have said it doesn't look good. c-span: how long did you spend in congress? >> guest: i was part of the contract with america class so i came in 1995.

of course in january and i resigned september or november of 2006. c-span: how long did you stay in prison? >> guest: i was in prison 17 months. i was behind the wall as we would say and into the halfway house so i did 17 months and federal time i was sentenced to 30 months. my plea deal was 18 months. c-span: when you think back on prison and i know you do a whole chapter on prison and you're halfway house, what comes to mind first? >> guest: first is people that are warehoused. it's a warehouse. anybody who thinks it's rehabilitation or trying to get people prepared to go back to society to warehouse in the first thing that comes to my mind is warehouse. c-span: what was it like the first day? who was with you and what were the first couple of days like? >> guest: i did something i didn't want to do. my friend ellen rattner said you

must sit with web hubbell. i remember web hubbell when he walked into our hearing room chairman i believe for mr. leach of the services committee. we were looking at whitewater and the president. we had web hubbell brought out of prison and i remember seeing him in a suit in the empty room. that is when i met with hubble the first time. later on in my life washington d.c. spent four hours with webb. he prepared me for what was going to happen. he was a former assistant attorney general of united states former chief justice of the arkansas supreme court and he said this is what is going to happen. so that was the preparation. when i went to prison i didn't take my family with me. it was traumatic and emotional as it was. i took two of my, one current staffer and one who had just quit and went on to operations media firm. those two staffers went with me

actually and drop me off a person and i went in. i walked into the kiosk and they said i am ney here to report. the guard came up as a lockdown and they said anyone of your campaign managers in ohio. i said okay. i got down in their and the guard said here you have some hate mail from california i remember in massachusetts. you have some hate mail waiting on you. they gave me the mail to go through this most embarrassing part of the stripped strip-down and then i got into the intake walked into prison down into the courtyard. i won't use the language that the book in the word the man that was supposed to take me around said get away from him he can find his own way. i'm sitting there not knowing where to go with what close to take and these clothes with my pajama pants. another prisoner said where's your escort the person that is supposed to take you around? i said i don't know a little guy in a suit yelled some foul

language. he took me in the back to the locker room and i walked in and the man is sitting there and he said are you the congressman? i said used to be. he said you are republican, aren't you? i said while republicans put me in here you know. i had to import some humor. i was the mayor of east cleveland. i will give you some clothing. c-span: he was a prisoner? >> guest: he was a prisoner. he got me clothing and he said where's your unit? where's your escort? some guy yelled all sorts of things and i found out the next day that was the warden who was standing behind me screaming let him find his own way to teach me a lesson. i walked towards the mainland to eat the next day in my mind is racing. how am i going to when i get out of here get a job. i lost every time i ever owned. what about my children? what about my family? what did i do?

i disgraced -- etc. and the prisoner turned to me and he said you co-authored the sudafed love. you put me in here. i realized i had to get through this place. forget the house, forget the job i have to get through this place and i sat down and that day changed my ideas. that was my first 24 hours. c-span: what prison was that? >> guest: morgantown federal corrections. morgantown west virginia. c-span: you were born in wheeling. eska race in ohio went to prison and morgantown west virginia and i want to make the choice to be buried in ohio. c-span: you said you worked for ellen rattner. this audience knows allen rat her from her appearances here. before we talk about her because she is mentioned throughout your whole book. this is her peers on the network about the same time it was happening to you.

>> well i was a big marcher in the 60s right over here on this mall. many marches the last big one, not the last marcher participated in but the biggest one is in 1969 against the war. you know all those lbj and hey hey what do you say i don't remember what people used to say. i have been a big dissenter my whole life. c-span: ellen rattner and my recollection could not be any further away from you politically. >> guest: in the day in congress in those days there was zero there fell in rattner and i agreed upon, zero politically. today we might agree on some things but still today a call ellen and ellen is here true liberal and all the sense of being a liberal. we have been friends since i

walked into the doors of congress and politically we are closer here and there today but in the congressional there is not one felt we would share. c-span: what did she do for you? >> guest: ellen did several things. we had already become friends and we had this i call it karmic relationship in the sense that she changed her birthday party her 50th and as a result i didn't want to go to a scheduled event ahead of new york city where i was to go into the tower and then some kind of fund-raiser stock exchange and i had it set. our office set up for september 112001 so ellen changed her birthday party. we can make at september the fourth that week earlier. i'm up in the tower looking over the crisp day new york. that was a cosmic bind. i would have been their there had she not changed her birthday. there was something about ellen rattner beyond just a friend. she visited me in prison and she

said you need to listen to radio. i said allen i don't want publicly to do anything. i just want to -- she said no, no you have things to offer. what ellen did for me and i mention this in the book i work for now but that is a small part. but allen was my friend, consular, psychiatrist tough love. as you know allen rattner she doesn't let you get by with anything and she will tell you right now and i mean out with all flattery. she has been a wonderful friend. c-span: where do you live? >> guest: newark ohio near columbus ohio. c-span: married twice and divorced? current relationships? >> guest: yeah. aye kids? >> guest: nothing serious, and

a grandchild have to mention a grandchild. c-span: go back to prison. the thought of public officials being in prison and experiences writ rarely written about any have put it all on paper. what was it like the first couple of days and what kind of cell were you in because you mentioned there was a toilet in the cell with you. that that serve the people? >> guest: the toilets are put into solitary confinement and dice i mentioned the shue. i mention that because if you get in trouble that is where you are placed with another person so it's not a good place to be. c-span: did you ever get in trouble? >> guest: well i did. i did get in trouble once because i went to do some laundry and one officer said what are you doing? the tvs were tone turned on which meant you could not move around. we thought we could get up and move around and i said i'm sorry and i can't repeat on tv what he said to me and you had better be sorry and i know who you are

congressman blog, block, blog. i never got cited for it in otherwise i didn't get in trouble but as far as what the prison was like i was married and my second wife and my children so you walk in there and everything you have ever known is behind you. i always tell my friends i went from capitol hill hello mr. chairman hi mr. chairman would elected drink mr. chairman have a cup of coffee mr. chairman to know, that you are not going to be given a second round of old mail move bond. but when i went and, i immediately met some people and i've got to be frank about this. i became friends more with the people who were in there for drug offenses than the white-collar crime people. i had white-collar crime friends and i became more friends with the people who read for drug offenses. first of all they didn't whine as much. they were more street savvy and they were people who have a thing for me at least a lot to share. they had never would have had a chance to be a member of

congress. a lot of them told me that. a lot of minorities and african-americans and latinos said we would never have been an opportunity to be in congress and we would love to ask you questions. i would answer some questions and some of the classrooms and talk to them about jobs and resumes so i received a lot back from them. the first initial part is terrifying for anyone, especially myself because i went from a lawmaker to a law breaker. some people in prison said you made the laws that put me in here. you did that to me. and of course you try to say well you broke the law but yes i created the law. draco was at a country club security? >> guest: ricky campbell and i have permission to use his name, he has written two pages in this book. something very fascinating he has to say and very accurate. he kept better notes and was an in longer. as ricky addresses barbara

walters at one point in time to that club fed interview about swimming pools and how these are club fed. this was a minimum so it wasn't a camp. c-span: there are no bars -- no sale. >> guest: that is true. no bars. they don't even lock you in at night. you could get up to go to the restroom or something but there are no particular cells unless you get in trouble and then you go to the shu the holding area but as far as the club fed attitude is prison. it's punishment. you will do this at the certain time. time. you will see that a certain time. you will follow the rules. if you have an emergency at home to bed. if someone dies you hear names in the chaplain when you hear that you know that someone just died. you go to the chapel and i know this is a particular case from

two friends, your mother died and by the way you always $22 on your account. i know i did wrong in their people in prison who have done wrong but there's a certain human quality. if you want to psychologically rebuild someone who has committed a crime, prison is no joy ride. i don't care for its county lockup state or federal but the club said years ago when they did that whole club fed thing it gave the country club attitude to the place. yes, a day or maximum security places i would want to be where there are hard-core people may be committed murder and such types of crimes but minimums are no picnic right for you are free to talk to your family and pick up the phone and do what you want to do. c-span: who was charlie moshe? >> guest: charles mosher was my probation officer and he was federal. he was assigned to me in columbus ohio. had an interesting's situation

because whether intentionally or whatever he was in fact calling the prison and the prison the gentleman in the prison that oversaw that part of the probation when you leave the calming him then he just would scare me to death. what do you have this man calling for? do you think you or something congressman? i would say i don't know charles mosier and i have never heard of the man. he went out of line and the gentleman in prison said i'm going to take care of this. i'm going to call his boss. the calls in created a massive heartburn and as i also show in the book they called me in to ask me who i was working for, how much money was going to make which i didn't even know at that time. i was just happy to have a job in all these details that you normally are put through prior to getting out of prison. i was not released out of prison on the due date that i was to be released and i outlined in the

book i was accidentally actually able to get a call through my attorney. c-span: how much of this book if he written yourself? >> guest: have written entire books except for ricky campbell's part of the prison and matt parker and former staffer of mine put together what i would call the chapter in the book. i had an editor who was a wonderful woman who was part of my conscious to say this is what i think and also she would fluff up some of my writing style. the actual book itself as far as the thoughts of the book i didn't have a ghostwriter who gave me the material but i wrote it myself and sherry as editor would help me. right to where did you write it? >> guest: i wrote the book in india. c-span: blair in india? >> guest: go out indian ocean and the city of bar of dharamsala, five minutes from

the dalai lama's residence. i wrote it basically and 60 days c-span: how did you write it, blonde handler, blonde hand or did you dictate it? >> guest: i ended up, i have ever know what you call it you speak into this microphone and i did that within two days so i actually would sit down on the computer either down by the ocean are we that goes to the tea shops and i would type it up and i would send it to sherry and after my outline i put together we would start chapter by chapter. i returned to newark ohio and did editing, it turned which would have been around may 31. i returned to did editing all the way up to january. the book, said the bill. c-span: changing lights press. c-span: changing lives pressing. c-span: changing lights press in cleveland who did they publish and what publish and why did they publish? >> guest: that's ellen rattner. she decided she wanted to publish the book and she had

published four or five books and she would be able to do it herself. right now they had mariel hemingway and they published a book by sherry johnson who was my editor and published a book by her daughter who is ellen's partner and myself. i think they have maybe two other people. c-span: there is another person besides ellen rattner that you write about. john bresnan from politico. you don't care a whole lot for john president. >> guest: with bresnahan at that time he had sent to my press secretary ryan walsh and e-mail and brian brought the e-mail then and it clearly set in their some bad language and what he was going to do to mr. mr. ney. i said to brian i want that e-mail. it was one of those e-mails you really just don't want to have in the hands of other people. brian gave me the e-mail and i

have been told by some of abramoff's people that john bresnahan was getting information from jack abramoff for story says this whole thing was going down because jack was secluded from the press as you can imagine after "the washington post" and "the new york times" and everybody else and the sun was going after him and bresnahan was doing stories that at that point in time i was also told pointblank by jack abramoff's people that jack was angry at me. i had used the word that he duped me and tom delay was still standing up for him. as a result bresnahan was helping to do some stories that would cause me heart or in and jack was keeping them. what we did it where we went etc.. that one. second is the fact that the whistleblower it really started this, emily miller comp everybody said emily miller started this. the whistleblower was tom rogers

and native american involved in native american issued in the first one that uncovered by police love -- so that dealings with jack and the indian tribes. tom rogers confronted jack abramoff not too long ago at the press club and said your people are in cash games, high-stakes card games with reporters. members of congress that mostly staff and lobbyists in jacks that i can't recall. at that point in time i had played cards with bresnahan and paid bresnahan money. towards my last year that i was in trouble i knew they had some card games and i felt that was important to reveal in the process. i felt that bresnahan had his cake and ate it too and the way he would carry out stories on people but yet he himself is a reporter was making terrible violations of the rules and the ethics and even the smell of the ethics involved with staffers and lobbyists in these card games.

the other thing is that there was an aid -- abramoff and bresnahan would become the editor and jack had this marvelous plan where he could control media and stories that were written against other lobbyists. c-span: what kind of -- you accused john bresnahan of taking money. you say in the book that you let him win the card games. >> guest: i don't say that rationing and knew that. i am sitting there and i'm in trouble. i am afraid for my life and sitting in a card game with a reporter. i have a pretty good hand and i'm going to fall that hand and lose 268 some dollars. that is my intention. i am not saying he knew that i did that but i did it. c-span: what is he done wrong than? >> guest: i don't think is a reporter you should be in cash games with members of congress or cash games with lobbyists.

how many lobbyists are folding hands to make somebody happy? maybe they did it with me. c-span: i wrote down, talk about the money porters in d.c.. >> guest: i think the system itself and i have come to this conclusion but the system itself is dysfunctional. john mccain, mccain was going to clean up the system and we were not going to have money as we note in the system that has proliferated into a nuclear war of campaign funds. the mccain-feingold campaign did zero created a loophole. you have george soros -- on the right so i believe a lot of it is the race for money. i amass constantly on radio shows today about members of congress and plenty of good members of congress on both sides of the aisle. there are some people that we know that if gotten in trouble

for illegal activities but the system itself is doomed to corruption. anything jack abramoff and i did , i drink some booze with jack abramoff and i went to scotland with jack abramoff. anything jack abramoff and i did is now codified in united states law. if i'm a lobbyist in brian if you are congressmen today i give two examples in the book. i put these examples in the book sometimes with names omitted for a reason. but if i want to i can take you to alaska and we can hunt. we can have a three or 4000-dollar dinner way better food than jack had and i can raise $75,000. i can take you in a staffer in some of your family and fly you as a congressman to las vegas and the two or 3000-dollar dinner. it's all legal as long as you stand up at a reception in eat. i can have meals and still use use -- alice fisher in our

announcement said congressman you used fund-raisers. no, everybody listening to this program and everyone on the hill today i was charged, to i pled guilty and i did a lot of wrong things. the entire congress --. c-span: what do you mean? >> guest: it's a private box and you go to them and watch the game and you have a fund-raiser. it's done today. nothing is changed on that. those are the types of things where they say you used a private lounge and it's done constantly for fund-raising. c-span: here are some video. tom rogers you mention. take a look and tell us what role he played. >> my world is very small. what happened was i had people who trusted me who came to me and they came to me in the year

2002. i walked into a bar and i looked for someone who look like they were looking for someone and in walks this gentleman farmer chairman and he says tom rogers. tell me your story. as you can imagine i wasn't surprised as was tom. we are paying tens of millions dollars for lobbyist. i said jack abramoff and he said yes? i don't know what we are getting for it. that was a constant irritant. write a how did he play such a significant role? >> guest: there are two movies. a wonderful documentary and i was in there. tom rogers was in there and i former chief of staff and then there is the movie by kevin spacey. kevin spacey plays jack abramoff and i like them.

that is a hollywood movie. in that movie it shows emily miller who was scorned by michael scanlon when she started all of this. scanlon was the business partner of jack abramoff and he is currently -- c-span: he worked for tom delay. >> guest: he worked for tom delay and was close to delay. emily miller didn't start all of this. there was a hollywood version in misnomer in the media. tom rogers started all of this and i praise him for starting all of this. if i had a great me i would say that guy did this to me. he didn't. he simply stood on -- up on behalf of native americans have thought of something that was going on which didn't smell right. anyone can represent clients but when he gets a certain level and he is members of congress to verify that this is a great lobbyists. the the american, native americans unfortunately aren't getting that much of return and it's not a healthy situation. tom rogers simply told the truth when he founded out and i give

tom rogers credit because he is the man that got the ball rolling. c-span: fox cub, what is that story? >> guest: fox, was one of the more interesting aspects. the federal government wanted to indict me for box combat pretty alice was celebrating to do this. at the end of the day fox come was one of the weird contracts where the prior fighters were the ones who decided. members of congress their time is extremely valuable and when they vote they go underground or above ground. when you go underground the cell phones literally would not work. chairman thomas, bill thomas of california, there was a contract to wire under the the capital on the house side these devices that would repeat signals of members of congress could use their cell phones as the bottom line. there were two companies ltcm and foxcom.

two members of congress were supporting each company. one was in their district etc. but foxcom was in tel aviv-based company and american connections that it was originally from tel aviv in israel. thomas did not want to get in between the two members of congress and he let the contracts that. when i got an error in there are certain of farms did such a wonderful job and i had jurisdiction over the capitol police. those that i don't like this is a bad security aspect. will you hold off on this and i said sure we will do that. jack abramoff represented foxcom. he later became governor of mississippi and represented to the lobbyist. so of course those companies contacted us and as jack abramoff did end haley barbour did and they wanted to see if their clients could get the foxcom contract or the lg see contact but i put up by the

wayside. i was serious about the security of the capital. later when they kept getting complaints from members of congress not from haley barbour jack abramoff but members of congress to set i want to use myself. i called the nsa for national security agency and they came to my office and a private limit and i said tell me the living dead was involved in this. tell me what is the bottom line with this security aspect. they went ahead and they looked at this and we went to a room which was in the capital capital and that's a private room nothing bounces in and nothing bounces up and i won't reveal the information today. security in the capital but they said it's okay to do these if we do them this way. doesn't matter which company does them. the israeli-based company which in fact or the lgc american company it doesn't matter which one. if you do it this way it's involved this way and that's all i can say about it that way are okay. we made a decision to award the contract of what we do with the

contract the ceo of the house the administrator of the house, what we do for the contract was that the providers do a survey. the providers were sprint verizon and at&t. they were five of them and i can't remember the other two. they would sign do do you want ogc or foxcom? the majority said they wanted foxcom. there is one little twist in this though. at one point in time the word was used and this is how i met with foxcom. the word jan was used. i have many jewish friends and in israel the israelis would say i am jewish or she is jewish and you can refer to it that way but when you use that word in other ways a derogatory way to use that word. c-span: let me read what you wrote and you can comment on it. these are a couple of paragraphs. the gist of the story involves neal polls not as a a lobbyist

by the staff director for the house administration committee that you chaired. haley barbour the lobbyist for ltc called mail. he had an air of hey it's haley, need this one. translate that. what do you mean? >> guest: neal pulls can verify the story because he came to me. he was the head of the congressional republican national committee. when i came into congress he was the money guy wanting to raise money you went to haley barbour. c-span: he is a lobbyist for ltc? >> guest: for ltc who is against jack abramoff is so lobbyist for sub dying. c-span: neal told me at one point haley said something to the effect that he was fairly busy end quote have dog call me on this sometime unquote. two members of congress normally pick up the phone and call obvious? >> guest: it probably happened

today and i've done it. i am busy, i have.com me. c-span: let me finish this. however the real problem stemmed from something ltc's lobbies that not only to us but the other simple. he referred to foxcom as -- it could not understand why we want to give a contract to a foreign foreign -- company. you don't say this but are you talking about haley barbour saying that? you say that ltc lobbyists instead of haley barbour said he said that referring to him. >> guest: neal pulls directly brought that to me. that is what happened. it transcended from there. i believe jack sees this, jack abramoff to get foxcom before me with the government said he met with foxcom. yes i did and i will tell you why. it was because of the jewish issue not the contract. this got around.

jack picked it up and jack came to me personally and i remember what he said. he said listen this is about money. this is about your reputation in the jewish community. it was told that this word was said by you and you might be anti-jewish. i said i support the israelis. he brings foxcom officials and they sit there and he says we want to clear this up about. aipac was supposedly mad and this is getting around town at that point in time i said listen i don't know if we get this contract are not as far as not getting the contract as you are an israeli company that is absolutely absurd and jack said that is my point. knowing jack abramoff jack was a chameleon of types. possibly jack abramoff found out about this and -- foxcom before me. that's possible but the

government when they said to her attorneys he sat with foxcom. yes i sat with foxcom because of that issue that the slur became part of my political problem. c-span: by the way what kind of rights do you have now when it comes to congress? >> i can go on the house floor. i have the full privilege of the house. speaker pelosi, i would call her office and in fact i went to boehner's office and it took him 10 days. the speaker's attorney called me and want to know if i was bringing former constituents on the floor. but but otherwise yes i have privileges at the house. i was there this morning. c-span: how they been treated? >> guest: i've been treated well. the first time i got out of prison 2008 and i was working for ellen rattner. she wanted to see reporters for dinner so i called and i said

i'm not going to go to the diner. i had a lot of shame and i have a lot of friends at the capital but it's not good. for me i didn't feel. she said just walk over and as i walked in and i have my former members card and my picture on it when i was a member and i remember the police officer standing there and i go to pull the card out and he said welcome back mr. chairman. that card is not needed here. i was in the house dining room and a couple of lady started crying. i saw some members who said hello democrat and republican an i said wow better than i deserve it was an ah-ha moment for me and i went back to the capital. break it to get attention? guess. >> guest: yes i get attention because all my money was gone. c-span: how much did your legal fees cost you? >> guest: $500,000.

part of his pagan part of it is not paid. c-span: how did you raise the money? >> guest: use campaign funds. i would raise legal defense money i would drain my account. the number one guy was sitting in a room which was to me very unusual but i was trying to get money to get the election to win it. i ran out of money basically. i won the primary and was headed to zero balance. c-span: here is jack abramoff talking about about you that they think the national press club. >> one of the reasons bob went to prison, bob apparently a different issue that wasn't related to mine. he took $50,000 of casino trips from an iranian businessman apparently who wanted the government to give permission to sell planes to iran. now that at in london is what i

think m. and bob played by the way. probably he would have been convicted but in terms of the stuff with me nobody else was indicted because a lot of the congressional action is protected under the speech and debate clause. c-span: you writing your book, before you answer that i'm skeptical today as to whether jack abramoff has learned his lesson or if he is back after the mighty dollar rather than redemption. so where are you today? have you seen him since? >> guest: i sent him a -- on facebook and they sent me one bit. c-span: this whole story about london and the chips. >> guest: this is interesting. if i read my quote after seeing this i am sure that jack abramoff doesn't want to be frank about what really happened. c-span: what really happen? >> guest: first of all when jack says it was -- i was not indicted for the chips. the government did not indict me

and secondly it was not an iranian businessman. he was a syrian businessmen and the other thing is that the government had this story about iis colin powell to try to sell airplane parts. anyone is free to call colin powell. that simply never happened. ice never asked colin powell if you would help sell airplane parts to iran. so when jack says well they got bob because of casino chips i did have a problem with declaring all the chips. i declared simon didn't declare others didn't declare others and i put that in the book but the government did not indict me on that. what jake at -- jack abramoff is saying is, i know what he is saying. if rob hadn't had that problem the casino, if he hadn't had that problem the casino there was nothing bob and i did we would have convicted me for. that is not accurate. i took free food from jack

abramoff that should've been reported and i took free alcohol from jack abramoff they should have been reported and i pled guilty to falsification of the federal document that was a congressional document. jack doesn't like the answer to that very question he has created in congress. on 60 minutes jack abramoff said i had 100 members in my pocket and i spent a million dollars. jack abramoff spent a million dollars on 100 members and he spent 30,000 on me, got what was the difference between those members and myself? i'm not saying i can point the finger and say this membership be indicted or not but they were the people that took from jack abramoff another people that inserted items in the congressional record for jack abramoff. i argue jack abramoff is not correct that he and i really didn't do anything. i argue it was -- it was eni and i argue the rest of it is only known to jack abramoff and i'm

right in my book i think once i went away congress the bad guys were imprisoned and they didn't have to go after anybody else. when john mccain have a senate hearing on indian affairs and had jack abramoff there ralph reid former head of the christian coalition was involved in a secret plot, received money, maybe millions of dollars to act like you want to close the casino and jack was to open it. that was the tick what tribe which i said jack is a good guy and i was culpable. when john mccain had his hearing he did not drag ralph reid there. john mccain at his hearing and the only one mention was made. i did wrong things. i admit it, ask the one jack abramoff says he would have been involved as a wasn't for london. write to let read what you said talking about the press and abramoff and he said earlier you

corrected that he didn't want to buy roll call on capitol hill. they wanted to buy the hill but he didn't want to buy that and talked about john bresnahan and then you said jack new meaning jack abramoff once i won away friends like delay and others would be spared. delays legal woes are in the state of texas and had nothing to do with abramoff. the justice department totally dropped it. should tom delay have been indicted by the federal government? >> guest: i can answer that because i'm not alberto gonzález and i'm not jack abramoff but i will tell you this if i was indicted for going -- if i pled because i won a trip to scotland. tom went to mariano islands and jack and i didn't. the question is that an illegal trip? jack paid for tom's doctors bridal shower or baby shower. the former chief of staff received a filter billion

dollars a jack abramoff into some type of foundation or some such thing. now are those indictable? i don't know. i'm not alberto gonzalez but my point is that if a jury in texas in the state in fact convicted tom delay what happened here with the justice department, these are peanut things is as jack abramoff comes to a conclusion. they can indict the end we were all indictable or we all were. were. c-span: appreciative picture be standing on saint andrews golf course i believe it is with the group and look at this picture. first of all you are how heavy their? >> guest: when i went to prison i was 234 pounds. i was probably a good 212 there. c-span: what are you now? >> guest: i will tell the truth. i was 168 and i'm 173. c-span: who is in the picture? the fellow in the back. guess good david sadecki and who

is still in prison a year, ralph reid, jack abramoff myself in some guy that jack hired. c-span: you suggested in your book that ralph reid was on the airplane with you and it was an eight passenger private plane. who flee over their? and what year was this? >> guest: 2002. c-span: we also have a picture of a whole group of you standing in front of planes. can a member get -- remember this picture? i think that is jack abramoff son i think. >> guest: probably few do a fund-raiser but i think this part might have been cleaned up most likely. c-span: how available were plain to see when you were chairman of the administration? >> guest: 121 to make about this trip comp that the trip was underreported.

the trip did not turn out and didn't meet with the people that we were supposed to. tom haney from florida god in trouble. he wrote a check check and didn't go to prison and maybe if i would have written a check i would have gone to prison. i can't compare myself to other members and why did the government not let my wife or i write a check. i don't know about alberto gonzalez who had jurisdiction over this but as far as this trip we didn't even know particularly it's still fuzzy who paid for. the point i make in the book is the chairman of the house magician committee as chairman i can call call the state department say fire up the jets i want to go to scotland and i want to meet with so-and-so and by the way i will stay three days and i'm going to golf. i can do that. my one argument about this trip i would make is this. at no point in time and jack abramoff knows this and the justice department now than everybody else under the sun. at no point in time did i say

just that want to go to scotland. take me to scotland. at no point in time. no point in time did i say what you have the indian tribes pay for it? i am referring to one thing. when jack abramoff told the indian tribes ney want to take a trip and you guys pay for it. i could call the state department go to scotland and cough for three straight days in a row. i wasn't even a golfer said that part of it i had issues with jack abramoff over. i did not ask him -- the indian tribes to pay for that trip. i did need that to happen. c-span: i want to be careful how i say this but when i read your book, and you go into so much more detailed than what we are able to cover, i thought maybe a shower might be used not thinking about you but thinking about this town. how much of this goes on to this day? more than anything that we haven't talked about are all the

staff abusing their privileges behind the scene. >> guest: jack abramoff and i would agree on one thing if you were sitting here today, to claim his town of. everything we did is on steroids now. maybe the trips have stopped that everything is on steroids and you can do all kinds of things. the power gains in the money gains. everybody on that hill knows what i say is true. you have to raise half of nine and if you want to be a chairman you have to raise that money and you have to play that game to be part of the system. the leaders i make an incredible amount of money and they control a lot of the power. the big pharmaceutical companies etc., they don't have to go to individual members. at the end of the day on the shiny bright capitol hill are some of the most wonderful people in this country. democrat and republican but also this is corrupt. a lot of good people come to some bad people, mainly good i argued that the system is broken.

the barrel is corrupt. c-span: webmaster different way. if you are teaching a high school or college course would you teach and academics how a bill becomes law or would you have them read this? >> guest: i would tell the academic process and have them read this and tell the truth of the reality of how bills become a law. it's a mixture of hip if you take away the money came and again i would agree with abramoff in the things i've heard them say, if you want to serve in congress you don't become a lobbyist and if you are staffer you don't become a lobbyist. this is not the feeding ground for the lobby circuits to take that out of it and take the money out of the system. don't bite chairmanships on committees. don't have that campaign arms race of raising money. today people take their staffers to the democrat room i call it, take it to the republican war room across from the capitol. they raise money on federal time. is it illegal? no. is it right?

no. c-span: -- make phonecalls. >> guest: i did it and is done today as i speak. let's take that site about. there are a lot of changes that today speaker boehner and minority leader pelosi join hands today and within 24 hours have such a dynamic change on that hill and allow these good people that are out there democrats and republicans alike to function. c-span: we haven't got any time left but when was the last time he had a drink? >> guest: september 13, 2006. c-span: at aa every day? >> guest: about four times a week. 12 step recovery, i'm sorry. c-span: you may not want to answer this but i assume when you are referring to old till you were talking about l. nelson. righto i'm referring to my friend in ohio. we call them old bill. eight to 12 step recovery because the traditions of aa we don't talk about aa.

the 12 step recovery. c-span: the name of the book is "sideswiped" lessons learned courtesy of the hit men of capitol hill. our guest has been bob ney former congressman from ohio. thank you. >> guest: thank you. for a dvd copy of this program call 18776627726. for free transcripts or to give us your comments about this program visit us at q&a.org. q&a programs are also available at c-span's podcasts. ..

>> the author talks about president kennedy at the gaithersburg, book festival. this is 45 minutes. >> we are gathered today to hear from one of the most controversial authors in the last two decades. the list of literary subjects he has enlightened raises quite large from presidents and first ladies to connecting characters and even business