good example were from people who were tortured or waterboarded. how reliable could they be at the time 11 commission is citing the footnotes including khalid sheikh mohammed who disputed my findings? people think that these institutions protect us and i think more than ever people are cynical about that in a good way. actually skeptical is a good way. like to say i'm a skeptic and not a cynic because when you are cynical you always say the glass is half-empty. i try to think the best of everybody. if you wake up in the morning and when i bought bought it myself i say every single day i swear to god this is what i say. i live and work alone. i say to myself listen man are you trying to defect the evidence into some preconceived theory of what you want to write

about? or you letting the facts take you where they will? at the facts, if you go down this road and you're wrong you have to deal to back it up and go down the right road and that's what i do every day is on it myself. that is why people on the right and the left in the middle embrace my work. i was a liberal to begin within my political life and i have become more conservative as rudy giuliani is quoted as saying if you are a liberal if you are not a liberal when you're 18 you don't have a brain. i don't often agree with that but i have become more conservative. but i can choose the issues. my approach to journalism as

that. cheers comes from a multitude of tongues and that is why try -- what i try to embrace in my work. anyone else before we wrap up? yes, sir. wait for the mic. >> mic. >> i have two questions. the prior% presenter not long ago was a colombo guy. >> the gas tax scam. >> i read his book and he gave a great solicitation and by the way your solicitation -- solicitation is super. >> i am a former altar boy in the catholic church. i took the oath. >> i wondered after your presentation in reading this book you seem to be quite -- [inaudible] you might comment on that.

>> i don't know, i mentioned michael once in the book because he was actually "forbes" magazine did they top 50 mobsters and he was in the top 10 because they had this amazing thing called the gas tax scam that the russians invented. they would siphon off a couple cents a gallon on every gallon of gas in the tri-state area. imagine how much money that is in the active boss of the colombo family and whose name the colombo war was supposedly fought i make the case in my book victor arena is innocent of the murder that he is doing life for it. he may have done other things and he begets poor world and they want to indict him for something else that's a different story but the tommy osarah murder, victor arena victorino was innocent. he was anti-drug and he really

wasn't a violent guy which is why scarpa wanted to eliminate him because scarpa wanted to take over. anyway that's my answer. speaker1: question i have always had. i have never understood and you can go to the the teens 20s, 30s, 70's, 80s, 90s and some of these guys make huge amounts of money. why isn't there a -- and why don't we read or hear two generations later, three generations, for generations that these families grandchildren and great grandchildren are -- ghosts being very played all the families have a interview and i got to talk to anthony caso junior. he doesn't have, i don't think you would mind me saying this. the poor guys broke.

so if there is a pot of gold out there and his staff has been imprisoned for a long time and couldn't communicate to him where was most of these guys burned through their money. if you really think about it who becomes a member of a group where you get up in the morning and you're dead by the end of the day clinics remember the story about donnie selma? who even does that? the ex-wiseguys that i talked to they say hey it's not just the money, is the power. there are a lot of these guys that are not functionally illiterate that they are not well-educated and if they were on their own having to do things took off for something in life they couldn't do it but to say hey we are with the colombo's. there can be up there with a level of power especially if they are in a group like greg scarpa's group. they really never had to learn what you and i had to learn in life how to do things and how to solve problems.

they would go to jail and a the ones that would come out were completely clueless -- clueless. i don't often answered your question. how about -- is this a longer show on the history of c-span? c-span? wedowee to more question? this lady over here. >> but ultimately happened to ali mohammed and when i hear -- where their connections? closer to the mic. >> and afforded shooting. >> repeat your question one more time because it's a great question. see what ultimately happened to ali mohammed and when they infiltrated our own military where their connections to the fort hood shooting? the excellent questions. first of all ali muhammad remains the greatest enigma on the war on terror in the world.

all in all, it was one of the reasons this came after. he wanted to cover up my book shredded. i have an incident in the book were ali mohammed had become an fbi informant of the west coast as early as 1992. he had this empty suit of the control agent named john zant. john sent at issues of his own like his daughter was involved in this incredibly, she was romantically connected to the guy who killed her parents. this incredibly violent murder case that occupied john zant for years. he is the perfect guy for ali mohammed to have this is control agent because he wasn't really watching if you will in my opinion. ali mohammed gets busted in 93 in vancouver. the mounties do their job. they go to the national

airport bringing in an al qaeda agent to the united states and the sips -- system works. they see this guy ali mohammed waiting. i am sure in canada they don't do the equivalent of nypd blue. it was probably a polite interrogation in canada for 12 hours but nonetheless they put the fire to his feet. he writes the number down and he says call this number. oh yeah he works for us and they let them go. what does he do quit shortly thereafter he goes to kenya to begin surveillance for what would become the african embassy bombing plot five years later. he was one of the principle instigators and planners of the african embassy bombing club. now cut to 1990 -- oh i told you it was the world trade center bombing and the makeup case where they

convicted co-lead shake. ali mohammed wanted the defense attorneys -- to subpoena ali muhamed to testify because he was kind of the living witness to what was going on with with the feds all these years. it would have been a defense witness and andy mccarthy the lead prosecutor on the case actually flew to california and met with ali mohammed not long before and i'll him a comment certainly doesn't show up at trial. he is not there and he encouraged the missing witness admonition to the judge. the feds do not want ali mohammed to testify for obvious reasons because it would have been embarrassing. now let's cut to october 1997. patrick fitzgerald, ali is living in sacramento and he's honorably discharged from the u.s. army and living in sacramento. patrick fitzgerald goes to sacramento and as a sit-down with him at a restaurant near the state house.

jack cloonan and another fbi agent. jack cloonan is an ex-fbi agent. he naïvely thinks he's going to turn this guy and ali mohammed says -- and remember the way they convicted the blind sheikh was first edition seditious treason basically against the united states. ali muhamed who had sworn to love this as an immigrant and army sergeant enlistee to america looks at him and says i love bin laden. i don't need a wad to attack america. i've ex-met number of sleepers that i kid activate. as matthew and he walks out of the restaurant. he said that's the most dangerous man i've ever met and we cannot leave him on the street and yet they left him on the street for x. max number of months. the bombs go off in africa 200 some dead in and they wait a month.

they finally arrest him and when they go to rest and guess what they do click they get them in a motel room in new york and they let him go to the bathroom. police 101. for anyone who has ever worked csi miami or dragnet noses as soon as you put the cuffs on somebody you search them or whatever. before they put the cuffs on them they let him go to the bathroom and he later admitted that he flushed key and permission down the toilet including alza were he's location the number two guy in al qaeda and guess what happened to ali muhamed? he is a john doe warrant for weeks and months because they don't want the media to know about it and he finally cut a deal allowing him to avoid the death penalty. he's the number one witness in u.s. versus bin laden. he never appears. he is in some custodial witness protection forever. he has seals upon seals in the case. i tried to get him and

could not get to him. if they ever do the 9/11 trail in new york which i pray that they do he needs to be one of the top witnesses. he will peel back the layers of all these years of negligence. if you go to peter lance.com i did a two-parter unfortunate and its connection to al allocating the guy that was targeted by a drone and killed his connections to the song that i found no connections to his son in -- we have to wrap it up. we are almost at two hours which is just enough time for c-span2 make a couple of announcement for the next program. i've really enjoyed this and i hope you have and i want to remind you of the great words of justice will louis brandeis when it comes to government in secrecy and the desire for people to know the truth. sunlight is the best disinfectant. [applause]

[inaudible conversations] michael fullilove because integral role the roosevelt and in five of his advisers played into america's entry into world war ii. this is about one hour and 20 minutes.

>> good morning ladies and gentlemen. thanks very much for joining us today on the eve of july 4 weekend. i hope the weather improves. welcome to brookings. i am the director of the foreign policy program at brookings and i am delighted today to have the opportunity to host the book launch of one of our former city fellows now a nonresident fellow michael fullilove. his book, "rendezvous with destiny," how franklin d. roosevelt and five extraordinary men took american into war and into the world is published today and it has actually come out in australia earlier. i am quite sure they

refuse will be positive and interesting here. of course it is a really good read and a fascinating deep dive into history on a different angle. a focus they focus on the special envoys, the five special envoys that franklin roosevelt who was immobilized in unable to travel except an extra ordinary circumstances how we used it to sidestep -- and to build a relationship and position the united states for the policy for taking america into the second world war. as michael explains that changed the course of history as we know.

in very dramatic ways and in particular to change the role of america and the world in very dramatic ways. so this story is a fascinating one in itself. it's told beautifully by michael in a way that takes you into the ruins where the decisions were being made in the and the conversations were being had. but it also has i think important lessons about statecraft, about the way in which presidents with great difficulty nevertheless can turn the states and profound directions if it has relevance for today's world. michael fullilove is the

director of the lowy institute for international policy in sydney australia, where he does a great job of leading that institution which has become the premier think-tank on international policy. he as i said is formally here is a senior fellow in the policy program. he previously directed the dash and before that was advisor to paul keating and he was prime minister of australia. his previous book is a memorable one as well. it was a book on the greatest modern speeches in australian history published by random house in 2005. to discuss michael's

book and the conversation with the author we are delighted to welcome kurt campbell. curt is currently the ceo of -- and co-chairman of the board of the think-tank which he founded the center for new americans. but he is probably better known to all of you as the just retired assistant secretary of state for east asia a position he held for the first four years of the obama administration. he was critically important and played a think a pivotal role in the development of

president obama strategy of pivoting united states towards asia and in that context particularly interesting to learn from curt about the lessons that can be drawn from michael's "rendezvous with destiny" it. curt in apposition received the distinguished service award. i point that out because i too received that award so i know how difficult it is to achieve it. [laughter] nobody could possibly remember the negotiations but i dare say everyone ago remember the role that kurt campbell played in shaping american strategy towards asia.

and so it is with great distinction that i receive that award. as i said he was the founder and co-founder of the center for new american -- a great think-tank that is doing terrific and influential work on national defense policy here in washington. before that he was the senior vice present structure of international security program and csi s. the center for strategic and international studies and held positions at the kennedy school and he was director of the center for science and international affairs at the university. he has a distinguished pedigree before he served in the government. without further ado i welcome michael fullilove with his "rendezvous with destiny." [applause]

>> thank you for that very nice introduction. i'm delighted to be here at brookings institution of which i am extremely fond. as martin said i came to brookings for a couple of years to watch president obama in the democratic nomination and then in a presidency the presidency and i have been proud with my association to the institution is as a nonresident fellow and to a number of my brookings colleagues in the room thank you for joining us. thank you to those who have come from outside brookings. i know you mainly came to see curt but thank you anyway. i'm delighted to be on the stage with martin and dyke and curt. martin is a member of the australian diaspora. he is a high u.s. official but padilla still claim by us. curt is a much admired

policymaker on in my part of the world. of course we recognize him very much appreciate his role. his association with the region goes back many many years indeed. both martin and curt are connected with the institute. martin is one of my board members and curt will be joining us as our natural distinguished international fellow so i'm on her very much martin's invitation and by curt's agreement to participate. importantly both martin and curt are members of the australia lobby. i know there are many lobbies in washington but let me tell you, nothing is as insidious and seductive as the australia lobby. we are dedicated to manipulating influence of people inside the beltway to the point where they acquire an interesting laconic sense of humor and a laid-back approach to

life. we are very very dangerous. [laughter] ladies and gentlemen book should be written about the australia lobby. i'm also pleased to say that our leader, the leader of the australia lobby ambassador kim beazley is in the audience. ladies and gentlemen in the last couple of years i have had a break from my duties in the australia lobby to write this book "rendezvous with destiny" and they wanted to write this book for three reasons. the first is i believe that fdr was the greatest statements of the 20th century. he saved american democracy from the great depression. he led the allies and won four consecutive presidential elections and did all this with a broken body. he was also a seductive effervescent figure. churchill said that roosevelt for the first time was like opening your first bottle of

champagne. and let me tell you when you spend a number of years writing a book about someone it matters that they are likeable because you are with them for breakfast lunch and dinner. so that was a not insignificant factor in my choice. secondly i wanted to write about this topic because i have boys thought that the period are right about which is two years between the outbreak of the european war in september 1939 and american entry to the word in december 1941 with the attack at pearl harbor. it was the turning point of the 20th century. in this two years the disposition of forces in the world changed and by the end of this period the coalition that would inevitably ultimately deface the dictators that is the united states and soviet union and the british empire, that coalition was in place. just as importantly it it's in this two years that america is

transformed from a nervous isolationist power into a global leader. and of course america emerges from the war that it enters after pearl harbor as the most powerful country in the world. in a real sense this two-year period is the start of the american century in which we are still living. and thirdly and finally i wanted to write the kind of history that i'd like to read which is not just about personal forces but about individuals with great olympians strengths and anonymous fertility and colorful weaknesses. i was particularly interested in how they interacted with those forces. when war broke out in europe in september 1939 americans were very anxious to isolate themselves from the conflict. in fact only one in 40 americans favored a declaration of war

against hitler when germany invited -- and david poland even though hitler was a clear and present danger to american answers as well as european interest. fdr wanted up the democracies in their fight against the dictatorships but he was hemmed in by congressional and public opposition. roosevelt's extraordinary achievement was to navigate these constraints and move a divided and has attended america toward a greater involvement in the war. within two years america had rearmed angry mobilized. a torrent update was flowing eastward to churchill's britain and its balance the beginning and the united states was watching a war against germany in the atlantic that by the time of pearl harbor in december 1941 and america's course was set for global leadership. in these two years in other words america turned but how did it turn so quickly?

how did fdr come to have such faith in the ability of britain and the soviet union to extend the force of the axis attacks? how could roosevelt attained the intelligence he craved and take the measure of churchill and stalin when he was trapped in a wheelchair in washington? fdr had enormous mistrust for the department that martin and curt worked for, the state department. in fact after pearl harbor roosevelt was said to have joked that my state department is neutral and four and i hope it remains that way. [laughter] he regarded most u.s. diplomats as conservatives in striped pants. the ambassador reports he received from joe kennedy and others -- so instead he turned to five associates only one of them had any background in international affairs and sent them on special missions to europe. first off sumner welles

a chilly described as -- bill wells matt was railroaded out of the state department for making advances to african-american -- which is probably is probably advisable even today. roosevelt sent wells matt around europe in the spring of 1940 during the so-called war before for the great armies and europe had locked horns beating with hitler in berlin and neville chamberlain's government in london. at this point roosevelt was looking for ways to help the british and the french but he had not yet settled on a policy. by the late summer of 1940 a couple of months later the world had changed really. hitler had unleashed his -- and britain and their empire remained

standing by to knew for how long. wild bill donovan republican war hero lawyer adventure future spymaster and the founder of the oss. now donovan visited a lonely britain at the presence that has to did whether he could hold out against the nazis. donovan's report health helped convince fdr that this was a country worth backing. a few months after that in november 1940 roosevelt won an unprecedented third term as president and his war policy toughen further. he threw a lifeline to britain and the dispatch three men to help secure it. the first was presidential confidant harry hopkins the scruffy sickly social worker son of a saddle maker from sioux city iowa became the whirling dervish at the center of the new deal who went to have dinner with fdr.

roosevelt invited him to stay the night and he ended up living in the white house for them rest three nephews. roosevelt sent republicans to explain it to churchill. he thought that opposites attract it and this was the perfect person to explain this incredible program to churchill. ..

>> the above you would know

that pamela had the extensive written career throughout the 20th century. [laughter] sheikh transformed herself into pamela harrison fund-raising queen and clinton appointed her ambassador to france. she died at the ritz hotel in paris the way i want to go when my time comes. [laughter] and so one of the great things about writing a history like this you find integration. roosevelt put to work from the 1940 presidential election with the dynamo, a great forgotten figure of the republican party a nationalist at the time the of republican leaders were isolationist.

this with the british for rao winning over areas to edge the republican party away. bisho roosevelt great genius to turn people over to his purpose. he tried to retain his present and to all possibilities for the next election but he invited into the house before he went to london when talking to wendell wilkie she wrote a letter to lew churchill asking wendell wilkie to deliver. is said tear churchill wendell wilkie will give you this he is helping me to figure out politics over here. this applies as much your people as it does to us. ceylon our union strong and

a great with all the hopes of the future years is hanging breathless of thy fate. franklin roosevelt. so wendell wilkie was transformed from a substantial national figure into an errand boy for the man. of course, churchill latched onto this letter" end quote. it in speeches he gave back to the united states in that poll of was a metaphor for the american relationship. finally then hitler let the dice fly to order the invasion of russia and i again. >> host: team went to britain to confer with churchill and also led to me was joseph stalin in russia. it would give confidence the of roosevelt to go against

the advice of his counsel he did just as "wild bill" donovan had done. in august as late as at the land to conference extraordinary meeting at sea that the bottom anglo-american relationship initiated implants was decided. but with this long distance relationship especially harry hopkins present at the climax. the japanese then attacked pearl harbor in america declared war on japan and then finally was america was in the war that fdr was a war president. people often say the japanese took america into

war. that is true in one sense but even deeper i freak fdr and his representatives to take america into war. by defeating isolationism in foreign enemies, they also took america as i may end with one final story that has the question commissure after pearl harbor churchill said he wants to come to washington to confer with america that was formally allied to britain. these are much less formal day so roosevelt admits his him and most of the entourage of cells were knocking around in the residence with eleanor in a lady friends and also harry hopkins.

one day roosevelt had nothing to tell churchill so he wheeled himself into his bedroom and he was horrified to find churchill had set up a bathtub in the middle of the bedroom. he had unusual personal habits. he was horrified find him taking a bath midmorning. president started to feel himself felt but churchill supposedly rose like a sea monster from the bathtub and stood before franklin naked pink and dripping and declared their pride minister of great britain has nothing to conceal from the president of united states. [laughter] i believe in alliances and special relationships but i

think that is to close. [laughter] [applause] and. >> thank you.

that was terrific. if they couldn't with state and that experience. [laughter] civic thank you it is wonderful to be with such a great group of people today is a reminder how important folks still are and i want to pay homage to llord master the head of our secret society at the secret in kelso would to begin the invitation to say that everything about this book this me off at a very fundamental level. i was talking to michael about this book for a couple of years and i said why don't you write about that is closer to home that like rugby or the coral sea or dingos.

[laughter] this is a big topic. are you sure? a couple of months ago he said why don't you be prepared to discuss this book. i remember thinking at the time isn't there anyone else? when something comes up honestly i would get it call i said why do i always have to do the austrian thing? to other countries as well? so i said okay. they sent the book to me. i love books a and i read a lot of them and i supported by teachers with i was at the think tank very proud of those efforts. so i take a look at every aspect so immediately i did not like this book because of how much was great. i'd love to the cover. many of these people are dead.

[laughter] he has a great one from stolid. [laughter] but some of the best imaginable. two months ago i set it aside that i will actually have to read this. i then started to read and literally at the very else set it grabs you because it is a depiction of the violence that the war begins in europe reinsure issue quite literally roosevelt on his steel caught with the newspapers and bottles of desperate and from that point or a new or completely hooked. if you're looking in the bibliography you will find the two periods of time one

is from the civil war the other is a period and that thereafter. what was astonishing to me we're talking about the proposition i that there would have been a number of tenants around the -- from the president that help with basically develop the consensus a of the decision to go to war by a surprisingly there is no such effort. so what michael has found in this remarkable literature is a wonderful story that has not yet been told. anyone that was read the wiseman this is the companion piece it is the

pre-quell of those that designed the institutions of post world war ii but in many respects it is interesting even more because it is similar to the wonderful trilogy of the american military. so the army add-on is about the military before the giants become giants like eisenhower, marshall, a young men making unanimous mistakes early on the battlefield. this is a comparable story of the united states and uncertain in venturing out. what i love about it, i love this book. i tried to read one book or two per week is the best i have read in three or four years and it really purposes -- pissed me off.

>> what does? to make everything. that i did not support it come i cannot read the book tour for greg typical washington responds at every level. it is that good. what i really didn't like was out important it was for me to read this having just left the state department. because one is great about this book is it captures at the outset, how it is described how they talk about the hubble be forested interior. and impossibly difficult man to get to know but not to focus on those roosevelt's that are unknown but friendly -- fundamentally with the old depiction of him coming to say that with

the idea how difficulty it was to penetrate the you see these incredibly dynamic man as powerful as you can imagine to be a part of the action. despite their remarkable success they all point to pre-a part of the action and they'll desperately pointed to we respected and to we thought of as doing a good job. this is the lead. >> you always wonder how does this play back home? are your initiatives respected? was our people seeking? >> this is how the men felton ty

perilous journeys the older ones are better than the new ones but the initial treatment was fascinating year primarily from english sources but as good as i have seen. i like how they have been woven together to paint a tapestry of not only these men basically educating roosevelt, but also left with the impression that there is a since very early the roosevelt new where he wanted to go and these men were acting basically on the perception from roosevelt this is like he wanted to see happen and actually bush just testing his proposition as opposed to being informed of their findings on the

ground. it is back deficit to see him manipulate the interlocutors that the only nation more effective historically with a strategic manipulation clearly e the climate is better. so that is what i love to. also the sense that leaks below the surface that just with the frustration of government. right? of what is very clear it was not in particular in the state department and people were working around them to restore a one dash restore the responsibilities that brazil would not share he

had wanted to take anything of the white house. we have never experienced anything like that. [laughter] it is a fascinating read but you can see even during this period were these people are out to operate outside of the state department system using the military channels of communication to send secret messages a of those quality of the next generation of leaders who were determined once the merger of the second world war to put into place mechanisms that would never allow a president like roosevelt to move around. a fascinating little aside how many were taken without the consultation of the war department in particular

although there is only one brief reference we go the modern architect of the apparatus they came into being 1947 was already forced in the person that had said deepest misgivings and was most frustrated by a and as premier but during critical periods of the war she believed some decisions as better orchestrated would have led the capability to rise both in great britain and in stalin's russia in a way that it affected the battlefield more than the back of the envelope

decisions. as the aside when he originally wrote the national security act he had a structure to never allow someone like roosevelt but most importantly it was the creation of the national security council. the purpose was he wanted a mechanism that he had a crisis to we forced to bring them together so decisions would be made by senior people and.

that is essential piece believed there would be military power cover a subsequent use that was said national security paper process. one of the key documents. end for solitude to the first one and to it is clear the president would have a response. so they need to be retired lieutenant colonel or 23 people that would be staffed in the basement to assist to call the meetings did make people come to the table to force the president of the advice of the secretary of state in the irony is historically almost every in which no real decisions were taken but great steps to

make it seem to the participant their views are valued by the president but the third is the creation of the staff this given the president the opportunity to but all of those but to basically trade data and the president this will attribute a sense of a different. >> fee is representatives when they landed in their respective countries they were treated with a difference and a sense of

expectations that is rarely present. it is hard not to read the book without experiencing but one thing about michael he does make a couple of observations that i had never thought of. a few consider every level of. >> there is no comparable set of the engagements within the leaders but all of the subsequent would have been basically one of feed world wars that the wonder of what it would be like so

that would be difficult to an interstate and but but his genius may have meant was just in closing, but the book hasn't. >> read it kyle macy did not come up with the idea where you did not write this book were be shaved that the australian road did better than rugby or some exotic spider that when you are a bit by its use well up a a and die. [laughter] but be grateful the book has been written. [laughter] [applause] >> that is terrific.

first of all, just a question about the five farm boy related to something that was said. if you kissing go one of them out, basically building the relationship. >> just take us through this big five analogies. >> hopkins is the hero because with his failing health he not only built but

one of his contemporary said that egypt trusted hopkins more than they trusted each other. [laughter] >> how did he build the trust? >> he had a directness and a formality. there was something about the romanticism and his frankness that appeal to to the personality of stolid and with roosevelt coming he worked the relationship with almost the extra sensory idea of when to flatter a and when not to the also an iconic approach and i signed the book.

>> but roosevelt like that one of the highlights was a couple days ago at a bookstore i had a saving in the lady came up in seven of you to sign this book because harry hopkins was my grandfather. >> one of his sons have degraded. [laughter] it sounds like he does not like austria but we cannot get rid of that. [laughter] >> one of his sons moved to australia. >> do think the term emotional intelligence was not invited at this time but with his striking is he is a

man who understands the game and actually a master player but his greatest gift is disguising batson he can always come across as a humble midwesterners but understood roosevelts moods better and that is the intimacy that gave him the ability over a longer period but the problem with the question is in different periods, with the advice was more significant than there was points or one of the of a series but donovan's role was very important as was wendell wilkie but it was hopkins but also made clear is that the sermon that were

desperate for the approval of roosevelt but he could discourage british ships very easily in there was a quality almost transactional he was not emotionally engaged with any of these men. >> he was ruthless and you are right. to the end of the war one of the reasons was is that he wanted to move out of the white house in that led to problems because roosevelt white the advisers close a year and in hawkins digit roosevelt argued of the way from malta but he never said

goodbye and always regretted it but then he died at the mayo clinic where he was back for his illness and his nurse had no idea who hawkins was and cannot figure out what he was getting calls from joseph stalin and winston churchill >> if you look at the way that roosevelt took the nation to war, and compare it with what current history contrast to the way george debut bush took them but different conflicts of different styles but if they took him to work quite quickly she could nurture

more into in some ways he would beat them around the headed cannot persuade many other countries that it was worth fighting so roosevelt is the opposite this book tells the story of this incredible effort although subtle over the course of two years to build the of bipartisan domestic consensus in adults and early intervention and prepared to use other countries to feed from behind -- leave them behind and was prepared to take his time. in fact, the result was criticized almost as much to felt he was going too fast period he did it it.

>> is a very clear direction but he wanted to do is no way that that the country did not into the ward / e merge united and ready for the fight. >> again and 11 came at the beginning. >> and pearl harbor helped. it totally destroyed isolationism in the united states at that time. but by then roosevelt had marginalized the bodies through the danish with the decisions and special mission. >> i have a slightly different view. the interesting thing.

>> please comment but also tell us about the challenge of the pacific of policy in the comparisons with the wave that shifted policy. >> i think there is first of all, vocationally us since they can only go back to a greater sense of national unity but what is striking is it is hard to to remember probably the most bitter feelings of any president of the last five years that were directed to roosevelt briefly held in contempt and the eiffel and many.

he did not win over the entire party but the key of a small then and what happened after pearl harbor but the opposition took a different form. people don't remember that the congressional elections of 1942 rooseveltian ministration was on defense and he took many criticisms for the conduct of the of orient almost lost the support which he was streaking to to the with the

recording of truman and others it is as simple as with just one fell swoop with the american political establishment to be transformed to their opposition went into a different form generally ended just improved rooseveltian to was the master strategist and tactician both the is forgotten when we look back more generally. the ada to rebalance comedy think in historical terms what generally happens whether the sec can't world war, and there is a desire of americans to want to come home and i would argue we're right on the cusp of a

substantial debate in the united states about coming home to spend more time at home a hint to fido wonderful books that is called foreign policy begins at home but purposely misconstrued as a treaty treaty:disengagement is much more about domestic investments. also what we see with the american body of politics with the internationalist always could count on the republican party to be the base with military spending and support but what is happening right now is the consensus of a strong national a security apparatus which is the basis of foreign policy over the last 70 years. no one talks about it but it is a very worrisome.

>> is the desired to come home, right to? >> face a rather than come home meant but the one pressure is like a scene of the overactive party of god other free when michael talks about leaving the of mafia that i want to leave but they keep pulling me back in in. [laughter] it is hard to leave them immediately. but they said we had strategic responsibilities we're deep the engage but we

have been hyper in cage for a decade in syria and egypt and ivory and, as iraq iraq, afghanistan will remark -- demanded a component of our time in to be successful in asia requires us to do much more for a spate -- sustained period of time. we spend more money in one day, today's in afghanistan in the entire foreign policy budget. just to give you a sense so any sense of a dramatic move we are at the very early stages which barely has been a diplomatic set of emissions over time that the court is not just money by people we have very able people in our government most of whom with a current

environment focused on the middle east. i could identify 10 or 15 senior generals foreign policy players, those who know everything there is to know about post conflict reconstruction efforts. there is nothing comparable to compare it to. >> the secretary of united states is preoccupied with the mideast. it comes back to the question of the special armed forces then use been the amount of time. >> secretary kerry has made a very profound and deep personal commitment. >> it is a strategist and

the day in the employment of activities come it is a hard thing to do that job period to be secretary of state at the same time. >> but should the president to avoid the special envoy? >> i thought you were going to ask the of the question. [laughter] -- the other question there is the perennial question about principal forces the special envoy when the president first came in the secretary of state clinton they appointed very special on boys with mixed results. i the ultimately what really matters to the region is encasement of the but the

key under them in the region has changed. in the past they would sit quietly and taking a. but if we don't alludes said they are urging satisfied it and i am confident that the president understands the stakes of the bill really have to step up. >> looking at those special envoy is. >> it is hard to compare because but they're not as special as they used to be but this was unencumbered by bureaucracy with personal

relationships with the president and often colin powell was not even involved in traveling without the entourage they got in trouble by themselves. >> i think those can be effective but they need to be disciplined. i don't think for example, that if you devalue the currency is like 50 flopping around when he left the white house. [laughter] that can be effected if you have to be disciplined to use them on important issues slim not constantly turning his head. this is where i agree that the special envoy to bring peace to the ada and i applaud him for his efforts.

obama is most important okay. fed is the pacific ocean and i think the danger they in kirk would the secretary of clinton was focused and she left the state department but others who was in full also like public service, a secretary k. notwithstanding we will see much more in the middle east and what is this about? to become in this sense home but the on voyages not the

answer but the instrument. that is the important thing and obama. >> wait for the microphone. >> and is standing up does not mean we come to you. [laughter] and. >> my name is steven but historical questions. i saw a church filled the night that the back the loan have the rivalry was there one between the five? >> first of all, i have a couple of primary sources

but it is such a good story it cannot be trusted so we tried to justify to put it in in the book i could not write a book on this period to not tell that story but with the rivalry, not really in the sense to do different things but wendell wilkie saw his rivalry with roosevelt and he felt used by roosevelt because he continued to use wendell wilkie on other missions then dismiss him whenever you wanted to support or endorsement he would offer the inducements but then disappear and the use that

to destroy him and to his point of roosevelt's ruthlessness but but he was much responsible and also the ambassador of france and sumner welles was in on the mission if he was determined to get him in the sense he did not like to kill people for their fight of what they thought of them. although he came to roosevelt to sell will run for the mayor in philadelphia because they all were from the prominent family and roosevelt said shirt to have them pitcher

of the political bosses to say kill their throat. [laughter] >> i would not say they were neglected of rivalry but there were napoli a hardness of the same direction but just in retrospect it seemed obvious roosevelt was using them as a group to do different things. he used them in very different ways sandy is hopkins to commune with the latest wendell wilkie to said the symbolic messages to the republican party because he wanted someone to get the ships sailing to

roosevelt had a genius in his great strength but in the end. >> what is striking is that this was the brief high point and operate the at the botanical but it is a set this, regret, and the way i thought about it was there is very little line of thinking they're fundamentally preoccupied with their relationship and roosevelt. not with the others are doing. >> the exception to that point relieve this was he was of post war diplomacy.

>> by herrmann is but but that is not the one i write about but he was to german to push and he was more than happy in order to preserve the relationship with the fbi. >> bruce smith from brooklyn

marathon three years. >> some wall. >> but i am struggling with the title was the wise men, wiseman. >> dave made it work but then came back to the white house and interestingly the she was talk backbite three yet to fight against s. this

was extravagant but let me get to my question. it is the one that he posed about the system forces the in and out. during the postwar period to have people come in and serve as the wise man. the dollar per year people and the industrialist you cannot do that now. have we really lost something the fda in jfk

made the state department in that did not work out too well. courted was pushing toward a. >> we could go back to the arab but not having the ability to bring government in and out readily because of a conflict of interest myth. what is the net balance on the question? >> it seems aside because we look at your system as being much more flexible than ours looked at curch becoming there is one wheel the important part of grand strategy in with government needs to play a role in perhaps we come back in the

future but that is very hard to. >> the issues are so complicated battle though it was a wonderful period of when life occurred with loved to have been one of the wives men. >> as you have now. >> i learned them from time to time with memories. >> i heard about the writing and the title i like is the

wife is the man in that will cause people to think and with the latest fad is a good idea. >> he calls it a rendezvous with destiny. [laughter] the period seems just endlessly a romantic, a sexy, cool, and just so different about we have to filter through the state department now. [laughter] we just will not get back to that era that things that are lost and gained. ultimately it to believe government and the opportunity to serve will continue to attract people to serve for a period of time in their lives with the hope of what is really lost in this bitter period is to get people confirmed dead it

does discretionary people to worry about what would happen if they are dragged through what is the unrelenting process. >> retired foreign service officer you talk about pearl harbor marginalizing the isolationist toe did fdr deal with the nasty people at "the chicago tribune"? the great american hero? he tried to marginalize him but the president did not

officially tel kennedy. he was outraged to hear donovan was there why do i want him for? in my corey t.? so roosevelt played the delicate dance. but it was unaccountable and it was madness with a dreadful decision to have this isolation with this incredibly important post so he kept him sufficiently on the line people, offers a fiercely -- dorsiferous lee but if he complained to sit be marginalized it had nothing to do with me but secretary nods.

[laughter] that is the way fdr did it. what roosevelt did was it consistently is getting tougher and tougher but roosevelt uses these events to do dramatize the american people to keep the isolationist back and back. first of all, to destroy their deal where he sends the destroyers out then after he wins november he comes up with the idea and to the question how? how does he put the argument over them? he is a genius and says you may not want to give all of the eight to the allies

because nobody wants a useful in return but he says if your neighbor's house was on fire, you would not try to sell the egg garden party with lent to him then return in gold -- good order. [inaudible conversations] but it is nothing like a transfer not even vaguely to parable but with the checks and the constant argument to have americans have a debate they had an argument is were we prepared to defend the allies?

ultimately he decided to it and then he is prepared even with the risk of war. >> but what is lost with the history is the brutal internal fighting that roosevelt is subjected to so immediately after pearl harbor the critics launched on what we would understand and recognize very clearly today. major congressional reviews about how did the united states find itself that we were surprised of pearl harbor. who are roosevelts staff passed to we blamed? sova roosevelt spends part of his time to manage the war figuring it out where to go also maneuvering to protect his keys players for a period of time so the republicans decide we can

get marshall. they recognize he plays a critical role for roosevelt's. he designs this entire defense to put people out in front white the commanders of the navy. they become expendable. so that establishes all the different things in order to keep them critics add bay spinet that period is remembered of remarkable you and on dash energy and is not the case. >> unfortunately this goes to rabin cal