evidence, but label us morally deficient human beings up able to debate. >> the indepth's guest takes comments for three hours live starting at noon sunday, the first. october 6, civil rights leader, congressman john lewis, november 3, oprah to sinatra, your question for kitty kelly, and december 1st, and january 5th, radio talk show host mark lee vine in-depth live the first sunday of every month at noon eastern on booktv on c-span2. >> up next, mexico bureau chief of the dallas morning news talks about how mexico has changed since he began covering the country, his birthplace, in 1994. over the past decade, more than

70,000 people killed in the mexican drug wars which he has covered extensively. this talk was held at the meadows museum in southern methodist university. it's about an hour. [applause] >> very good, thank you very much for that opening, and welcome to all of you. we are looking forward to spending the next hour with you here. i thought i'd start by expanding just a little bit on the introductions of our two distinguished panelists here, and then we'll move the conversation through some areas of specific topic, and then we'll open it up to questions so i think you are given a blue card as you came into the room. as you think of questions, please write them down, pass them to the end, and some folks will come by and bring them here, and we'll reserve the last portion of the meeting for questions. let me startly telling you just a little bit more about alfredo.

there's several thicks you know about him, particularly, if you read the book, that he was born in mexico where his umbilical card is still buried, oldest of nine, moveed as a young child to the united states with the family, something else you probably already know about him is he's a graduate of el paso community college, and a 2008-2009 kneeman fellow at harvard university. one other thing you know about him is that he's worked at the dallas morning news for some 20 # years, and his reports are published in our spanish language newspaper, and due to his bravery, courage, and enterprise, he was honored with an award from columbia journalism school in 2007 and the colby award.

now for a couple things you may not know. [laughter] he's spoken on mexico's national security issues on four continents. he's addressed organizations, i believe, throughout the united states, and he does relish the opportunity to write lighter pieces in addition to the heavier essays that often come out of mexico m one of my favorites, i think, is in 2007 about those who sing from big ban and supports the family on the tips he makes from the baritone voice echoing off the canyons. another thing that you probably don't know about him are three of the favorite things, not necessarily in this order is columbia musicians, detective novels by cuban authors, and his

favorite brand of tequila. >> right. [laughter] >> i knew that. >> you knew that. now that that's out of the way, i'll introduce the ambassador. what you know about him, of course; he was the ambassador from 2002 to 2009, and prior to that, chairman of the tex railroad commission. he earned a law degree here at this institution, and as we know, he's on the board of trustees, serving as council and city office, one of the largest global law firms in the world with something like 38 offices in 26 different countries, and he's chairman of the ventures, a management consultant firm managing in cross border business development. i have to tell you something you may not know about the ambassador. grew up in brownsville, the grandson of immigrants, and the

son of a world war ii veteran, and filling station owner. they went on from the childhood, son of a filling station owner to chair a commission that regulated an 80 billion dollar energy industry. one of the favorite states, i believe, is the region furthest south, my favorite region, so i remember that, and he loves single malt whiskey. [laughter] we thought we'd start the evening by asking him to read a short passage from the start of the book to start of set the tone and begin the discussion. with that? >> right. first of all, thank you for being here. it's the official book launch and honored this is happening here in dallas and smu.

i want to thank the other family, the dallas morning news, tom, tim, my other editor, lauren, my task manager and editor in mention toe for this book, and i want to thank my family who got up early this morning, i think, 6 a.m., and they are here. my mother and father, thank you for helping me believe in the art of going against all odds. my two sisters, monica and linda, and angela who is my significant other, my girlfriend, and accomplished -- award winning journalist here. i look around and see a lot of friends. i'll stop the thank yous because i could go on all night, but i wanted to set the mood by reading a couple paragraphs. i started writing the book three years ago, and i had a really

hard time with the beginning of the book, and i thought they made a mistake in asking me to write this. i was visiting -- i think i was doing a fellowship at the wood row wilson center, and i was back in eel el paso, and i saw a friend of mine, an accomplished author, and i told ben, i think this is a mistake. i can't get through the book, and he asked me one simple question, and that's how the whole book started saying what do you think about when we say or when i say the word "mexico" and i kept thinking about it, and i went there, and i didn't have a note pad, so i just started scribbling on the napkins in the restaurant in el paso, and this is what i responded. it kind of stayed throughout the book, and, i mean, the edits, basically the same, part one.

when rains fall on mexico, all is forgiven. the rain drops cleans the mexico city sky, sweeping away the smog that traps 20 million people and suffocating embrace, bringing everything into sharp focus over the southern edge of the city, two volcanos stand guard, according to ancient legend, they are smoking mountains, and lying next to the over, woman, and wife, washing the smol, they revealed on rare occasions, the same way it swept the desert sky decades ago. the clean, the ancient, curing a misunderstood land on the cusp of greatness, a country riving to free itself from the curse of history and geography. for better or worse, tucked in the indifferent shadow of my adopted homeland, the united states. the moment of forgiveness is

fleeting. the hole in heaven closes. >> [inaudible] >> i'll tell you a small story, which is really at the beginning of the book, and i'll walk you through the information. this was july 2007, and i had just won the award, doing a lot of interviews on radio and other mexico city, friends of mine and others flying in to celebrate the awards. right before we headedded out to dinner, a long time u.s. trusted source calls me and says there's a threat. three names came up, and i think

it's you. they have to agent within 24 hours. obviously, if you cover organized crime, you're used to threats, but for a trusted u.s. source to call and tell you that, i was frozen, and shocked, didn't know what to do, and angela was there and another friend. i said, i think we have to cancel dinner. it's too risky. he insisted. he insisted to keep the dinner and show solidarity. he thought it was an important moment, stand firm. one of the guests he invited was jim who, at the time, a spokes perp for the u.s. embassy, minister of communications. he showed up, all talking about, you know, what do we do next? how do we secure ourselves? how do we maintain safety?

at the end of the evening, we had drink too much tequila. [laughter] jim said, why don't i tell the ambassador this is going on, and we will issue a statement, and i have family in mexico, and if they go after you, they go after your families. after i went to sleep, i looked around, and the only thing clear to me was it was midnight in mexico. this was a turning point for me because, again, this was a threat, and this is one that i took seriously.

the next morning, as we are leaving, to the airport, i decided to go to baja, california, a great way to escape; right? [laughter] we were doing this, and at the moment, i felt, oh, well, everyone knows now, and i was not sure what to believe. what was clear to me, as a mexican native, as someone born in mexico, was that this was the first time that i really felt the privilege to be an american citizen, to have someone back you up, and it was both refreshing and, also, i think i felt a sense of betrayal that a lot of the mexican colleagues don't have, can't claim the same thing, and i mean the reason i'm still safe is my u.s. passport,

but i didn't tell the ambassador that. from that moment on, we had a professional relationship as a journalist and dip play mat. from that moment on, it became a very, very special moment, and when the book idea came up, the only title was "it was midnight in mexico". >> tells about that from your point of view, what prompted you to take the action that you did? walk us through that time. >> well, it was actually a pretty easy call. jim had come to me in the following morning, explained the nature of the threat, and one of the things that we all appreciate when posted abroad, and it's just drilled into us, and i know mark knows it is our primary responsibility is the safety and protection of u.s. citizens abroad, and so from that perspective, it was clear that we had to put on notice anyone who might threaten a

citizen abroad, but secondarily, you talked about freedom of the press. you were talking about the cartels trying to in some way chill journalists to get the news on the street, and one of the things you had to appreciate about mexico is the first year i was there and leading up to it, one of the things the press had fought for was the right to print stories about the government. they had gone from an environment where they felt that freedom was suppressed by government to one where we were going to let the cartels but press the freedom? there was two important interests from my perspective. you had the protection of the u.s. citizens abroad and you had to put a clear stake down on what the rights of journaroadho.

it was not that difficult to call. >> were you faced with that ever before this particular incident or did you face something similar ever subsequent to that? >> with respect to journalists? >> uh-huh. >> well, it's a tough environment for journalists, and many of the mexican colleagues felt more vulnerable, and as you point out the fact americans in the sense there was an additional layer of security. >> issuing a statement and -- >> i -- i don't know that that predated or post dated the stuff in the middle, but there were times where we had to make it clear that we felt our interests were threatened, and we had to take it seriously, not sit back and not say anything. >> tell us more about what it was like or how you covered a

country you obviously feel deeply about? you described the love affair with mexico, and, really, this book, i think, those of you who read it, will find it's part memoir, very personal, that's what makes it readable. it's a very captivating read about a very serious subject, and the emotion that you feel for both united states and mexico comes through very clearly. how do you balance that in a country that has so much opportunity and has been plagued with so much trauma? >> first off, this feels like we're in the neighborhood. this is our favorite hang out. the only thing missing here is the tequila, you know? [laughter] >> we have to go off campus. >> right. but, i mean, i knew i wanted to

be a journalist, and it began when parents took me away, from mexico, i was six years old, and my dream was to somehow come back and reconnect with my language and culture. when the opportunity came to be a journalist, i felt that or wish reporting led to better understanding of the countries, and i guess the way i balance that, i feel like, you know, i come from a different perspective or a -- feel like i lived in mexico, the united states, lived in dc, and i think all the perspectives, i hope, enrich the readers here in north texas. i mean, that's how i see it. it's -- one thing i promised parents was i would never cover drug trafficking. we lived on the border in el paso, and that was something you knew not to touch or mess around

with because it could come back and bite you. by the early -- after the president and george w. bush relationship, after 9/11, the immigration policy was not going anywhere. i decided best thing for me was to get back to mention -- mexico. there was industry changes. the economic crisis affected us, and i was basically had no other choice other than cover drug trafficking because it was the big story. it's, i think, like many mexicans, i had tried to look away or not really -- not really look at the monster, you know, face-to-face. after that incident, after that, i covered various stories and saw how deep the penetration was. from that point on, i mean, i

didn't look back. it is a personal story. it's a personal memoir and gorpny, but i hope that enriches the reader in many ways. >> ambassador, how do you feel about how mexico has dealt with or looked at itself in the mirror? >> yeah, actually, we had this conversation as you mentioned many times, and i've said i don't have the same necessarily love aware with mexico, and one of the things he said that had we been sitting in the restaurant, you said, as a mexican in mexico, i would have said, as a texan in mexico, and compared his perspective to that of my dad's who had a much more percent -- personal relationship with the country, and in my experience, growing up along the border, there were people from mexico. there were mexican-americans and latinos and the anglo community.

what end riched my -- enriched my perspective giving me a sense of living and dealing back and forth between the two cultures is along the border you learn to shift gears in the sense of the communities you are dealing with and interfacing with. this is a conversation we have once every couple of weeks just what it means to be either latino, texan in this moment where you have this convergence going on between our two countries and how do you have both aceps of self and how do you relate to your country? it's an interesting thing, and i think, really, how do mexicans see themselves? i think increasingly, mexicans see themselves as each day more integrated into the global

marketplace. each day this country is taking a step towards being more modern, more competitive, wanting to sort of play at the ways shy should -- they should, economically and politically. that's what you see going on. you had an interesting ten or 15 years both in terms of economic growth, transition to democracy, more integration into the trade community, and openness, a growth of the middle class. i see -- i think they see themselves now as each day more prepared to compete. that's a good thing, not without the challenges. they live each day in terms of security and violence, but they see themselves as ready to compete. >> i mean, do you feel less confident with the return of the regime, the old regime coming back? do you feel as confident?

>> always a journalist. [laughter] >> i know. >> you don't get to ask the questions. [laughter] >> i was just curious. >> how do you feel -- >> he did the same thing to me on a plane ride back. my last couple weeks as am base -- , i invited him on the plane, and said you can be on the plane, but we're off the record, keep that notebook in the pocket. >> thought i would take advantage. >> the next thing you know, he's leaning to the governor, and says, do you feel your state is corrupt and under the influence? [laughter] we're on his plane, put your notebook away. [laughter] >> a great story recounting that. >> yeah. look, i -- there's a sense that the pri is back after 70 years, but they are back and the country's very different. >> is the pri different? >> i don't think they have any choice because mexico is different.

if they try to be the party, the country says no. we want your focus and commitment to an agenda reform. we want economic growth, but we don't want that old style government. i'm surprised at how quickly they've -- they are trying to go back to being the -- civil society, they are taken aback by, you know, for example, the whole effort of centralize the, all the information and the ministry. that, i mean, we're five months into -- five, six months into the new administration, and i'm still waiting for the mexican people to fight back. i don't know how you see that. [laughter] >> i didn't write the book. [laughter] >> i'll try to answer that, and then we'll get back to my friend here. [laughter] i think what the country wants

is they want the efficiency, they want the reforms whether it's labor, fiscal, they want energy reform. if you get reforms, you get 4.5-6% growth. there's a lot of things people forgive in the expanding economy. here's what i think is kind of the paradox, if you will. if they get everything they want, and the middle class grows, and you have an expanding middle class, the freedom of the press is not something to be put back in the bottle, but the same middle class who says to any party in government. they say, you know what, you did good on the economic front, but we want more transparency, accountability. it's one of these things where even if they got everything they want, ultimately, the fact that mexico's middle class is expanding, the role of the media, the fact they are part of any number of multilateral

agreements and those sorts of external pressures towards openness. i think even if they wanted to go back to the old style of government, they couldn't. what the people want is they want government that works. that -- i think that, more than anything else, was sense of the return to the pri was let's restore some semblance of order. while they did good things, two things going on that make countries feel vulnerable.

drug cartel told you that the more you insist on democracy, the more sewage you'll find. i thought it was a compelling quote. i want to ask you to talk a little bit about that. do you think americans should quit insisting on democracy? there is so much sewage that mexico is a lost cause. both much you talk about that. >> i think he was right, in the sense that he was trying to say, you know, i think americans want instant democracy. it's not going happen. the more that i as a reporter dug to the story. the more i realized -- [inaudible] he was a lawyer for the underworld.

he was later assassinated. i learned a lot through him. yes, he was right, but that change as ambassador said, was happening. and i think that is an example of that. it went flu the worse moment, but as a journalists, i'm encouraged when i go back, because i see the best of mexico come out and a civil society that is growing and people trying to hold the government accountable. part of the story i covered was in -- the birthday party in 2010 where fifteen young -- mostly young adults were killed. i remember the day after the killing, i mean, well, [inaudible] we covered the story, and we went there people had given up on mexico. it was deflated.

two days later the funeral happened. several people thought i was a part of the u.s. delegation. they kept give me cards. i kept saying i'm a reporter. it's interesting the next day after the funerals, several people called me and said we're at the bridge, can you please come pick up us? and these were people who had given up on mexico. i didn't know what to do. i can give you a ride to your lawyer, but i can't do anything for you. these same people are now, you know, they form a community. and they're fighting back. and so i often think -- if it was -- what would he think about this? [inaudible] when i talk about the story and how much more he experienced than me. the -- from my van vantage point, you

see the intelligence reports and process them differently. what he was experiencing was the humanity of it. being there, seeing it, feeling it. it was one of the things i was struck with when i read the book. i was reading these things, processing the way an analyst might. al fray do was trying to report about them and feeling the warmth or the skin or seeing the tear of the mother. to me that brought home, for me, reading the book what i was there during the same period. i understood what was going on sort of in the abstract, but this made it even more real than having the that period when i was living down there.

>> in some ways that's a given. you're the ambassador. you have a more tenth annual tached view, perhaps, than somebody among the people. is that the way it should be? is there any way to bridge the two or blend the two? you try to get a sense of the deal. in term of the violence, my more informal, sort of sources, if you will, people along the border businessmen from all way to tijuana commenting about the nature of the violence and how it will change and how it's no longer that sort of easy accommodation between the good guys and the bad guys. it reached an all together different level. in that sense, it was more real because even for people that i grown with and known for many years, but in the day in day out i never had at the funeral of --

, i mean, i could imagine what it felt like. but i don't think there's anything quite like being there and being in the middle of it. that come through. >> let me add something. one thing that i found interesting when we started covering the organized crime, was it was in the north states. again, and again i would say, you know, who are you talking to? thinking maybe there was somebody in mexico city they're con -- coniferring with. these were mexican officials. these were governors, they were mayors. i found interesting getting back to your question. should the u.s. continue doing something? it's interesting now that the new government is back, you know, it is back that i asked mexicans what do you want the united states to do? and constantly they come back and say, you know, don't leave us alone.

don't ignore us. because there's a sense of a new government is trying to change the narrative of mexico and get away from the drug stories. i know, many readers are probably sick of the drug story. i know, i am. i like to be covering much more economic stories and the economic of mexico and so forth. but again you have been covering for nine or ten years. how to you look at the victims and say sorry the conviction rate is still 95% -- , i mean, the the impugntive rate. how do you say that to them and say but things have changed. the narrative has changed. so getting back to your question. i think mexicans want some kind of u.s. role. someone to learn from their u.s. mistake and prod them along. >> they dough and they do. it's a curious relationship that mexico always had with the

united states. the secretary of state sitting down with the mexican leadership and are you sure you're know what you're asking for. mexico unlike columbia said do what needs to be done. but colombia's relationship with is different. we get the sense of what happened between the united and mexico. the history is not even the past or whatever. it's not in mexico. i found it interesting when northern officials would come me and say you need to speak out and listen to you. the united states ambassador what do you want me to be a -- [inaudible] here? because it was coming out of my mouth, it's going to -- there's going to be a pretty hard push back. but it did make clear sense -- [inaudible]

ultimately and that democracy because participate story. that is going to be able to tell their government. this is our expectations from the deposit. it will take awhile. but i think that's the notion of km. that's how it works. expanding middle clays. it was absolutely interest. the official in the northeast said we can't say it but you will. we can't support you when you say it but we'll laugh. [laughter] it's interesting the analogy you make to colombia. one of the message you are urged us to consider is not liken the initiative to columbian. tbhaws sort of banded with that weight. so it is a precarious

relationship, and delicate one. how do you -- whatted advice would you give to the current ambassador and how to navigate that? >> i think he's doing a good job. it's a relationship -- i don't know that has its own sort of history. it's also involving very rapidly. when i started -- i use it convergence. to me that suggests kind of a flow, a movement of people and movement of goods and can have a convergence in the economy. if you talk to the. you think it's a advice of issue. if you look at the polling of main street 70% of the country wants some sort of comprehensive immigration reform. conversely, if you listen to the mexican, the traditional

nationalism. you might think the relationship is still a tense one. if you take the polling on main street. mexicans in general want a much better relationship with the united states. any counsel would be. focus on trade. people tend to follow their no more critical than your pocketbook. people follow that. focus on trade. build the culture relationships, and the political leadership will follow. i think that's what we have to do. focus on the trade and build culture and political leadership. we want a better relationship. of course recently all the news americans get out of mexico seems dominated by violence, drug cartel. all the ugliness that goes with that. one of the passages in your book that stuck in my mind where you describe a conversation, i forgot who was between now,

where the president took the warnings he was at the top of the list so seriously that he actually had taped a message and left it for his children in the event something happened to let them know if something happened to him, it was in pursuit of what he thought was in important. how has the level of violence gone since then? i guess i'm curious whether you think -- i know you have no way of knowing. it the current president has taped a message like that? >> not that i know of. it's -- the current level of violence isn't -- hasn't really changed from a year ago. the government comes out and said, i think 14% difference from last year. but plenty of analysts have looked at the numbers and said, maybe if you categorize it differently.

but the killing level -- what is changing is the spot. i mean, it used to be more the northeast and chihuahua and other states. now you see it much more in southern mexico next to mexico city. the con -- condition for this happening erupted. impunity, corruption, poverty. we're going to take question from the audience in a few minutes. if you want topaz your questions forward, we're happy to consider them. you talk in the book about three dpircht death threat and the fourth one you took particularly seriously. what has it made feel safe to return? >> the u.s. passport. really. it comes down to that.

having a u.s. passport. and i think having good contacts within both governments. people would tell me. i've never really felt as unsafe as a mexican journalism. they are much -- ambassadors are more vulnerable. i feel like it's a responsibility as a u.s. journalist not to make foolish decisions and not to take chances but try to cover the story. because there are a lot of regions in mexico where people are being forced to self-sensor themselves. if you don't cover the story, you only add to the to the silence in mexico. i think that's one of the things that keeps driving me back to the piece. >> aside from knowing how you start your book, which you said is difficult. you described how you navigated through that. what else was the hardest thing of writing in the book. you've been in newspaper for all

your life. for us a long story is 1,000 words. >> or 600. [laughter] i think the hardest thing was getting up the silence was as a reporter you used are being product by the silence. you don't put yourself in. but one thing that i credit my editor in new york and here in mexico city was taking a look at the copy and saying you're a reporter. where is the real you? and it took a lot of -- one of the things that guided me through the book is music and listening to songs. oftentimes i would listen to the same songs 25, 30, 40 times to force myselfed in the book. but my new york editor was very clever. she would inprovide me to new

york and saylet have dinner, and let's have drinks. she would ask questions about this or that. later when she would edit me that's not how you told it. come back again. so it a look the of -- i think that was the hardest thing was peeling yourself as a human being. exposing yourself. being naked, if you will. >> you a spend of time on both sides of the border. if there were something that you wish those of us on the u.s. side had a greater appreciation for about mexico what would it be or what point of ignorance do you find most frustrating, perhaps? >> i think the beauty. the beauty of mexico. the humanity of mexicans. the resiliency they have. if there is something that has always drawn me back is the

sense of courage. they're hard working people. and they just don't give up. i see it in the people i interview. especially not after just people who have a will to cross the border to do something with their life. maybe i learned that from my parents. but that has always drawn me. >> ambassador, how would you answer that question. you spent considerable time too. >> probably very similar. i -- there's a lot of mexico i want people to see. there's a lot of state i would love for people to see that i was important see as i traveled around in my political life. sometimes as simple as sitting on a park bench in mexico which was one of the areas and getting a sense of the family and the people and rhythm and knowing

about 5:30 or 6:00 you have to find an umbrella or move indoors it's going to rain. it kind of cleans it up and smells beautiful. you feel the rhythm again. but just like there are so many texans in the united states. there are so many mexicos one could experience. it would be hard to put my finger on a specific. u i would say justice the rhythm and feel of the country. whenever you might be. it's pretty special. >> let me ask the reverse. what is it you wish mexicans knew about the united states that they don't. the biggest point of ignorance. >> -- [inaudible] i've done that in el pass sew. listen, i think there -- same difficulty. there's so much that we offer in this country, but then we get

back to what he referred to. resilience and strength and optimism of the american people. i think our -- we have a healthy cynicism about government. i think that is a nice thing. our cynicism about a pretty good government. in mexico they are cynical about government because they want it to be better. more an extension. they want a democracy. and so i think it would be nice for them to see our cynicism. >> i find i a lot with my colleague in mexico. they are surprised there is skepticism as reporters. they always, you know, think that is very healthy. we can ask questions. i have done workshop. that's one of the first things.

how do you see president obama as another human being and ask him any question. that's something i have seen change in the last twenty years in mexico. people holding their government more accountable. one of the things that maybe many of you don't know three of the pulitzers went mexicans. that shows how much journalism has really ocean up and downed in the last few -- really expanded. >> speaking of journalism. one of the question from the audience here. reporting is such a difficult story. how do you decide who to trust? >> that's tough. well, it depends. if you cover organized crime, you spend a lot of time with people. and you're always chris crossing information. one of the advantages i have is i've been based in d.c., and i've been based obviously in mexico city and on the border.

that gives me flee sources of people to contact and check information. and really over the years you know who to trust. you are constantly changing. they are always changing officials. so it's always getting back to -- what do you know about the guy and this person, and checking, checking, checking. >> at the level of ambassador, i'm sure you have some of the challenges. how do you know who to trust? >> we've had that conversation. and he knows it better because -- in the united states and in mexico we're trying to spin you. you have to figure out which ones are trying to kill you. from the standpoint of the officials you trust. you always hear rumors.

and one official. you said i've heard the same sort of things you've heard. it's kind of like that. you have to play the hand you dealt. and the officials you deal with. you never trust completely. constantly confirming. it's a very situational. depending on the situation and the individual. you develop some in-- instingtd. >> can you discuss the solution to the cartel? for example, should we legalize drugs? are there other answers? and it's ten words or less. that's a tough one. >> listen, ultimately it's going to be a country that has a healthier rule of law and institutions that can contain some of the criminal activity that that they have. it's going to be rule of law. as far as legalization, you can --

but the truth of the matter, we're never going to legalize it. we shouldn't legalize the cocaine, the -- there's at love things that they are simply not going legalize. you're going to need institutions strong enough to deal with the players that will be acting in those arena. >> i'm noticing they didn't marijuana. >> that's a debate going on in the united. listen, even if we were to legalize it in the united states more broadly, there is still a potential for black market. for those moving to the united states, individuals that didn't have the prescription and didn't qualify for the medical marijuana. so regardless of where you are on that. if mexico didn't build stronger institution. we have that in an the united we have a institution that wheremexico anded that.

society. and not only respect climate building but more competitive on the business side as well. it's something that takes away -- >> i think that's one of the criticism we get as journalists. why don't we covert cartel on the u.s. side of the border. why don't we tell people how the distribution works? i know last week we had the shooting of a mexico attorney in south lake. we covered that, and we said it was it was a targeted hit from a mexican hit that was ordered in mexico and of the paramount -- [inaudible] actually coordinated and sanctioned it here in north texas. i was surprised that, you know, it was huge news in mexico. after we reported it. but i remember i talked it you and you were -- it actually happened. but i think you're right it takes a different form,

different way when you operate in the united states because of rule of law. >> my expect was listen, we shouldn't be surprised whenever traffics are headed occasionally scores will be settle there had. i don't want to sound too, you know, -- that's not indifferent. that's a reality of it. i think maybe it's my own experience having seen it along the border and the valley. is there our a destruction networking. occasionally there will be scores settled in the community. it's tragic and unfortunate. we hate to see it. unfortunately we can deal with it a bit better because of the institution. occasionally. >> do you think the public, the media in specific, fully understands the at the present time kl and the distribution?

>> i think we spent a lot of time and resources. i think we were one of the first papers that actually detailed the penetration of it. i've seen more reporting in other part of atlantic, for example, north carolina. l.a. i think that's one area we have to do much more. i think we need to put much more a human face on the issue here. i'm curious who operates the operation here. i'm curious to find out who are they related to. how do they function? how do you kill an attorney in south lake? and think you're going to get away with it. that's something that i'm curious. >> you know, we've had at love these conversations variations of them.

completely understand it in term of the movement of both the drugs and the movement of money. when i'm asked about still over violence i suppose, yeah. i suppose i am. in my respects a more concerned to me is the spillover corruption, and the exat -- capacity of large -- huge amount of money and the capacity to intimidate and our own constitution. we have to be vigilant about the quality of people out there in law enforcement and quality of our prosecutors. you hear stories about some of the cartels focusing in on the academy. young federal agencies are being trained. and where they might be vulnerable at that point in their --

career. those are the kinds of things we have to be constantly be aware of. that, to me, in some ways should be a more concern. it goes at the heart of the institutions. listen at one point, it's been years now, i remember along that stretch of border, it was two, three, of the shares there under indictment or in jail. then you had the corruption scandal, i guess it was one of the federal agencies in arizona. and so we're not immune to it. we have to be aware it's not just the violence. it's the capacity to corrupt is concerning us. >> how a large a role in this does the u.s. play in terms of money-laundering or gun across the border? how much fuels the problem? are there steps we should be

taking beyond what is already being done? what would you recommend? >> recommendation the ambassador. [laughter] i think there is a lot already being done. perhaps it was one of the issues that we were slow to appreciate completely. once we realized they were being used for these sort of things. we have been more aggress ias a government and the institutions themselves. the financial institutions don't want to be party to this. they are recognizing that there were vulnerable and they're doing everything they can to address them. i think maybe we are perhaps a little late. a little naive. but i think both our government and the large financial institutions are really stepping up and doing what they need to do. it's a tough one. i think it's always going present some challenges.

i think on the guns it's not a popular thing. i think texas has kind of a bad wrap on this one. most of those countries aren't coming from the state. i mean, the larger ones are coming from central america when there was a grenade tossed over the fence at the con late in monterrey. it was columbian manufactured. but no doubt it's, you know, a challenge. there are no easy answers. if i had them, i would put them out a long time ago. >> anything to add to that? >> no, i mean, i know that is more -- reporter we get blamed when something happens. i don't comment. i just keep writing.

>> i think we are about out of time. i'm getting the cane around the neck sign to wrap it up. let me take a quick moment and be sure to thank our partners here. most especially the tower center for housing this. c-span for filming it. barn and noble for providing the books, and the museum, and most especially the ambassador for joining us and al >> i can thank you. it's an evening i'll never forget. and it's kind of his idea from the beginning. thank you so much. [applause] you're watching booktv non-fiction authors and booking every weekend on c-span2. this is a place where you have to know what you're about. there will be other people who

want to tell you what you're about. these people don't have your best interest in mind. that's where a kind of survivalist manhood becomes insis end about being what i am and being fixed to what i am. an open question is how much is -- you know, is that unique to prisons? is that how most person -- americans are who are strangely absolutist and pleurallist at the same my truth is the one true truth but i recognize your truth to one -- i don't know the answer to that question. sunday night at 9:00 on after wards on booktv this weekend on c-span2. here are some of the latest headlines surrounding the publishing industry this past week. author and political journalist jack germond died on wednesday. he spent 48 years in

journalism. he had just completed work on the fourth coming novel. a short story. he appeared on booktv to discussion his book "fat man in a metal seat" forty years of covering politic. you can watch it online at booktv.org. on wednesday amazon publishing announced a new biography serious will be available through the kindle device later this year. they said it's working to hire celebrated authors to write about significant figures ranging from joseph stalin to edgar allen poe. the first publication "jesus" is set to be released in december of 2013. with other nine titles being released bimonthly in 2014. according to estimates released by the u.s. census bureau, bookstore sales dropped 9.5% in june. they had been running close to the sales of 2012 until the

recent drop last month. the attorneys representing apple, the democrat of justice, and state and consumer classes will return to court on august 27th to discuss potential penalty against apple for e book price facts. she's ready to issue an injunction but concerned it could inhibit innovation in the rapidly evolving e book market. stay up to date on breaking news about authors, books, and publishing by likes on facebook. or follow us on twitter or you can visit our website booktv.org and click on "news about books." >> you're watching booktv on c-span here. who is the prime time lineup for tonight.

on such topics as the tsa, wikileaks, the catholic church, and dick