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when first started this book, i will be honest i really didn't know much about che guevara. i knew need the image on the t-shirts growing up in new york city in the late 1970s. a lot of people were t-shirts. his image was spray painted on walls all over new york city with the expression jay lives and he cut a handsome figure. a scraggly beard and piercing eyes and the black array that was just tilted a little bit and the star on the beret. he looked like a revolutionary and his message seemed to be to somebody that just looked at the t-shirts and looked at the

sayings somebody who was for the people, power for the people if anyone remembers that expression from the 70s. fast-forward to 2010. kevin and i had become friends and worked with the "associated press" and kevin and i both have a love for military affairs and military stories and we reported extensively on the military and written about the military. one day kevin said to me in no, there was a mission back in 1967 in which the green berets went down to bolivia to train bolivians to go hunt che guevara. and i said yeah, okay but who is che guevara "x. is he relevant? i was being a little sarcastic but he said no, really why don't we just take a look at it and why do we duart to chill engines

and see what's -- due diligence diligence -- due diligence. there are been so many rumors of che, what happened to che and how he died and we decided let's at least look at what it did written about the green berets rolled in the mission in 1967. so we started our due diligence which was reading books going on line and seeing what had been written and what we found was there were dozens and dozens of books written about che and about castro and politics that every time the bolivia mission was mentioned the green berets were maybe a paragraph in every book and there have been some tremendous books written about che including john anderson's book and a whole host of others.

but again it has always been kind of a footnote in those books and we decided at that point you know what, let's at least look at records comp the army records go into the archives and see what exact he was their role. again there were some people who believed that the green berets went in there and killed him. they believe the cia was in bolivia and they actually went into the jungles and got che so let's separate the fact from fiction and that is what kevin and i do best as journalists, uncovering and exposing wrongdoing. and so at that point we went in and looked at all the documents and records and started talking to some of the guys who are actually on the mission in 1967 and we quickly discovered that they played a pivotal role but not like most people thought. they actually went down to

bolivia, a small team, and they took the sickly these bolivians who were compensating those who were farmers, who were peasants. many had never even held a gun before and they actually train them and turned them into this fighting unit that went into the jungles and hunted sub five and eventually captured him. at that point we realized we had a story called the one that hadn't been told and as you know being in this store, historical figures there are dozens of books. how many books come out every year about lincoln and washington and teddy roosevelt and military leaders? the one thing you want to do as a journalist and as a writer is advanced that story. take it in a different direction. take that small piece and show readers what really happened in

a given time period and that is what kevin and i decided to do with this. we decided we were going to draw readers in bolivia in 1967. we weren't going to start the story with che on his motorcycle trip in 1952 going around but america where he discovers horrific poverty and changes his course from being a doctor to a revolutionary. we weren't going to take you into the mountains where he is fighting alongside castro to overthrow -- what we wanted to do was drop you in bolivia in 1967 show you what bolivia was like, what the united states policy was like, why we feared che so much about ridiculous point and kevin you can fill us in from here. [applause] one thing before kevin starts, any time anybody has a question please feel free to interrupt us. don't wait until the end.

just pepper us with questions. >> we initially started this narrative we were going to look at che is a point of view character. we thought he might be an interesting way. we were picking out people to drive the story and we thought che that has to be one and that was a struggle because there's so much written. the che reading list i had about him was 12 or 15 books. the books that we had on the green berets and intelligence guys was two or three. and essentially what we stood and my wife said what wife said why not you just leave them out and focus on everybody else and what we realize the story really was that this is a story about guys forgotten by history. they are forgotten by history and the narrative that has been written but also forgotten even in bolivia. it's the sub light trail when you go to bolivia. che guevara came to bolivia to overthrow the government and its his trail. none of the bolivians get the

credit. obviously the green berets because of some mission they aren't a part of it but that struck us initially. maybe he isn't the point of view character because it be known a thing about the mission and obviously i hope you guys read the book as you learn more about the mission it didn't go so well he really wasn't what the legend , the coverage if you read the news clippings of the time really builds them into the super guerilla with a 500 man army and he was poised to take over all of olivia and in fact it just really wasn't the case. what we found was the more we focused on the legend in 1967 when believed -- what people believed he was doing it showed the urgency that a lot of the main characters as we go through this a little bit. you can understand why when they get to bolivia they are scared of what che guevara's going to do there and really what made him such a threat to american

policies let makers and bolivians at the time i think it's undeniable that he has a certain charisma about him. the fact that urban outfitters has a t-shirt to this day that people still buy and i have a buddy of mine who showed up one day with a che guevara t-shirt and it said hey you know anything about j.? at that time i knew very little about him. i knew a thumbnail. he said no man, that he just looks cool. it's undeniable that there is a certain sizzle to him but what he was trying to do when he got to bolivia was very simple. he wanted to create 1000 vietnam spirit of the time the united states was involved with vietnam war and his gold was okay we can do it in southeast asia we can sure as heck do it in latin america as well. it's right in the middle of the

neighborhood and we are just going to export this thing. he showed up in bolivia and that was what he was trying to do. what we try to do is tap into that because as far as the cia was concerned in american as were concerned and surely the president of bolivia was concerned he was going to not only do that but do it well and it was going to be a big problem. so, as you read the book you have to take the assumption that not only is he going to do this but he's also doing a good job. what we found really funny is and where reporter so we understand how many times things come out. i'm sure all of all of the guys followed the boston bombing. that was a textbook modern breaking news story. obviously in 67 was a little slower but we still have this idea of a lot of misinformation. i'm going to have mitch come up and talk a little bit about the main guys major shelton who

leads the green berets but when he gets the mission in panama when they bring in -- we are sending you down for training team to help the bolivians he is thinking great. i won't spoil it too much but i'm getting towards the end here and i have got to take on this guy who may or may not be che guevara. that was sort of what they were facing. [applause] >> kevin raises a great point comp for a couple of things. one is that this is really the untold story of some of the people who are involved in this mission who haven't gotten any credit in history and one of our characters as pappy shelton. pappy shelton was the leader of the green beret unit that went down to bolivia to train the bolivians in soldiers and there were 650 of them. they had to do this over a 19 week period. imagine you go down there and

you are dealing with mostly people who can't read or write and haven't handled the gun and you're trying to teach them the intricacies of war and especially counterinsurgency. it was a very difficult mission. pappy shelton was up for it. this was a guy who was born in mississippi. he grew up on a farm in a cotton. he had a lot of different jobs through his life. he was tough as nails and he joined the military when he was 18 years old. he joined as a private and went to korea and saw action right away. he was wounded three times, won the silver star. he came back and decided i love the military. i'm going to make this my career. the only time he left the military was back just before you got married. he decided he was going to try farming again. the military had a policy that you can leave the military for

90 days and returned -- if you return within 90 days you would get your previous rank but after 90 days you have to go back to being a private and at the time he was a sergeant. on the 87th day he returned because farming in mississippi was just too hard and love to the army life and he missed it. so, he decided since he was going to make it a career he was going to do more than learn as much as he possibly could. so at 28 years old to cut off age for becoming an officer, he applied for officer candidate school and he was accepted. most of the people in this class were early 20s and he was the old man so to speak. that is how he got his nickname pappy. from there come for he works his way up. he is commissioned to second lieutenant, first lieutenant but that's not enough. he wants to join the green

berets and he does and is deployed to laos in 1962. he comes back and still wants to stay in the military even though his wife -- who he has five kids and his wife wants to go back to tennessee and lived there and leave the military life behind. he decides well if i'm going to stay in the military a little bit longer i'm going to learn how to speak spanish which he did anyone under this intense training and learn how to speak spanish hotly. venue is deployed to the dominican republic and then later this was his life's mission. when he was in panama he gets called into the office and his commander tells him look i know you're getting ready to leave the military but this is really an important mission and we are worried che guevara might be down there. we need to train the bolivians. there have been several ambushes down there. the bolivians have been routed payday been taken prisoner. they have been killed. we need to do something because we are afraid that this is going

to spread and bolivia was in danger of being overthrown. here was the catch. he could go down there and he could train the bolivians but he was ordered not to go in the field. that was critical because it was an area of operations a red zone where the guerrillas were operating and he was told he cannot go there. you have to stay out. we do not want americans being killed there. we don't want to be into a war in our own hemisphere. we don't want another cuba. we just want you to train them. for pappy, he understood that. it was a little tough being a soldier because he had seen combat and knew what this meant to do that they had the handcuffs on. they were only two did go down there and train the men and not to fight. >> okay so now you are stuck.

you are training the bolivians but you want to get somebody out to find out what's going on so the cia puts it this idea that they are going to hire two cubans exiles to go down there and represent the cia. they are not american so they get around the loophole and they sent two gentlemen down there and the one we focused on a lot was a gentleman named felix rodriguez. he is the workaround but what you learn quickly with felix is that he takes a guerilla to catch a guerilla. he has spent a lot of time on the opposite side. he had taken part -- he was one of the advanced teams in the bay of pigs. after that he was part of other things going on in and out of miami here, anti-castro but what i found the most interesting about felix and talking to him is he had this intimate

knowledge of a guerilla. he knew the stereotypical effects. most guerrillas are pack rats and carry everything with them. when he gets to bolivia he's good at making friends with oblivion intelligence services and he ends up getting in with them and refuse their intelligence. he's able to put together a profile of all the guerrillas that were with che and he finds out there's a particular one that goes by the name of paco who he has identified as the main guy he wants to get because paco is a student who was told by the communists the bolivian communist party, we will send you to school in havana or moscow. when he gets to the camp to where he is supposed to leave to go to school they handed a gun and they say all right let's hit it very do you are a guerilla now. felix decides if we catch this guy i can at least talk to him. i'm not going to give away the whole book but one paco surfaces

felix pretty much goes all in to make sure he doesn't get executed which he almost does. paco ends up being a very important player. he's sort of the final piece in the mystery. what helps is that paco has of photographic memory so he can remember everything. he lays out the soap opera that has been going on in these camps and how che has had trouble with the bolivian communist and with some of the other guerrillas and how some of them are deserting but most of all the parts together exactly how the guerrillas moved to the next time there's an ambush and they catch him they are able to figure out exactly where che is. that leads them to when they implement the rangers. after 19 weeks of training the rangers are ready. now they know where che is and you were talking about the officer a guy named gary prado who was leaving this company. he arrives, do they arrive on sugar talks and mitch and i

interviewed him and i will let mitch tell you about him because he is a neat dude as well. >> obviously the process that felix wanted became very useful. >> are you talking about the confession from paco? cs, absolutely. paco, and he sang like a canary. >> may be you would talk about it or maybe you shouldn't, whatever you say. felix had been previously in africa and che had been in africa. jay was going to run away but obviously he was not able to run away. >> actually felix wasn't in africa but the other cia agent down there the stoffo mullato

was in africa and they were chasing che. again part of the problem was our intelligence, what many think of the cia and the way our intelligence works now we know where everyone is moving. we can monitor people by tapping into their phones. we have drums. we know where everybody is at any moment, to which is partly how we were able to track bin laden. it took a long time but that was one of the ways. back then our intelligence especially when it came to che was pretty poor. we just didn't have the contacts so in 1965 when you talk about when che is in the republic of congo we know that in hindsight that in 1965 we were sure that he was actually there. in fact some of the documents that we look at that the cia would rank these reports once a week, they basically said che was dead.

they believed he had died in the dominican republic in 1965 with a church heal uprising so they thought he was dead somewhere in the dominican republic. they were sure and that was part of the failure of our intelligence at the time. we just didn't have that network going but you're absolutely right. we thought che was in the congo which it turned out he was and we were tracking him. [inaudible] >> they were transported to the republic of congo for chasing che or whatever operation was going on. >> absolutely but again they weren't 100% sure. they believe che was there and later pictures surfaced of che in the congo but at that particular time in 1965 they weren't 100% sure.

that was part of the failure of intelligence at the time so in 1967 when we believe che might ian bolivia there was disagreement between the cia the state department. they produce reports that said che is still alive? their answer was we are not sure. that is in the book. so yeah the united states was very concerned about che in part because he went from being someone who proselytized, someone who preached revolution to somebody who was exporting revolution and that was the real danger in 1965 in the congo and later in bolivia when he was actually taking action on some of the theories one theory being that you could take a small group of men, place them in a rural area and overthrow an established government. it just had the focus to do it and that was one of his theories. but getting back to gary prado

you are absolutely right. gary prado is one of the characters in the book and he was the leader, one of the leaders of a ranger company. we focused on gary prado because it was gary prado who actually captured che. we told the story of the bolivian military through prado 's eyes and prado came from a long history of military people and his family. his father was that believe a major general. he was a diplomat and you know, the gary prado wanted to impress his father. that is why he went into the military into the calvary. when the first attacks happened when the bolivian soldiers were ambushed and they had no idea who was behind ambush gary prado volunteered trade in fact there was a dinner with the president of bolivia and he goes to the dinner because in bolivia the time there were 200 families that were basic and with all

well-connected and they all knew each other and they ran the country. so he had dinner with the president and gary prado had some training in counterinsurgency. he was at fort will again panama and at the dinner they start discussing the ambushes and this shall -- soldiers who were killed. brought it was really angry. he believed at the time the tactics the bolivians were using just wouldn't work here they were using conventional tactics and the military needed to be trained in counterinsurgency and not in traditional military tactics where you have a frontline and a rear and you are battling. think world war ii where you have frontlines and rear. this is different. this is a guerrilla war so at this dinner party he broaches the subject and says look, what we are doing is wrong. he slams his fist on the table and says what we are doing is wrong. we need to train our men in counterinsurgency and you know i

want to be part of it. even though he knew the president, do it would be like going to dinner with the head of your company and the president of the united states and you're slamming your fists. no mr. president you are doing this wrong. it just wasn't heard of so he thought his career was over. a few days later he heard he was actually part of this new range of battalion that was being created. again just going back to the training, it was 19 weeks of intense training, things that our soldiers would do in boot camp but you know our soldiers have the strength. they didn't have that. they didn't even have the body strength to perform some of the basic functions because of the food. when the green berets go they have to change their diet. they have to change their sanitary habits so it's not just

about learning how to shoot guns. it's about learning how to be a soldier. and what prado does for her book is he shows you. again it's really an untold person in the chapter because everything written about prado was, maybe he played a role in che's death or he's barely mentioned at all. looking at the documents and talking to the team we wanted to bring his role to light because he is truly a fascinating character. >> basically there we go 1967. it's a good story but alone is bad enough? i argue that and this is part of the pitch i gave mitch in the beginning. why does it matter now? why should we care about what patty shelton did in 1967? arguably is one of the first

successes of the green berets. when che was in bolivia the green berets were fairly new. they were not a branch. he didn't need to join the military to be a green beret. mostly officers were trying to get out of the green berets because they could advance. the guys that that stayed into long said you have to get back to the regular army. so the fact that this is the green berets in their embassy as well. what they did in bolivia is what they have done in colombia under four rag and what they have done in iraq and afghanistan and what they have done in the philippines and in some ways we are getting to see the green berets doing exactly what they do best which is working by with and through indigenous soldiers. in some cases bolivians in some cases iraq and some cases afghans. to carry out american policy. to me being someone who has

spent a lot of time covering them in working with them and writing about them i was fascinated by this aspect. there are statues around fort bragg and i was out there last month with some friends. this green beret guy i know writes the -- in the book. he said look, we look at all the statutes and it's a shame that pappy shelton isn't out there. they look at this mission is one of their first big touch-points where they go back and say this is success. this is what it's supposed to look like harriet it as a legacy to it but honestly it's a pretty good story. we try to ride it like a thriller, a good james bond history book. if you are looking for an analysis on politics, looking for a good look at the

government and what he did wrong in policy you might want to -- if you want to read a page-turner that sticks you in bolivia in 1967 i think you guys will like this. if there are any questions now but thank you all for coming out. we appreciate you coming and let's get some questions now. i like discussion. [applause] >> i read marco's book after he spent 30 years in castro's jails that there were three people that castro feared besides himself. one of them was camille is who disappeared on a plane trip that never landed anywhere. the second one was -- actually rested because castor didn't have the guts to do it himself in the third one was che guevara was -- it was out of control

because they couldn't control him. from what i understoounderstood from the book he was clear in saying that he basically turned them over and sent them to bolivia to his death. actually tipping off the american cia that basically where he was and what he was doing. have you run across any of that to confirm what he wrote quick. >> no, and let me give you background. right now i'm working on another book that will be published next year about william morgan. william morgan was an american who went to cuba and fought with the second front. the research i have had to do for not only to shave but also this new book coming out about william morgan which touches on the relationship of castro and che and morgan and the leaders of the second front in the conflict with the 26th of july movement, historians can

disagree about a lot of things that we talked to the people who were there. there is no evidence that castro sent cheney to his death. they were his closest brothers. there are certain ties that are forged in combat. you have to remember that when castro lands in 1956 they are almost wiped out by batista's man and i think there were a handful of members of the 26th of july movement who flee to the mountains. che and raul and castro, fidel were among those in the ties they forged with the revolution were an breakable, i'm breakable. i mean, at che and castro can disagree on things. for example on what kind of revolution the soviet style was

more you have to wait for conditions to be right before you wage revolution where sj was more you don't wait for the conditions to be right. if there is injustice you go ahead and create that they make that revolution. but just from my perspective from my opinion i don't think castro sent him to bolivia to his death. i think he had castro's blessing when he went to bolivia and he was exploiting a cuban style where fallujan to that country which he hoped would spread to bolivia's neighbors. >> the local population didn't understand the government. some of them didn't even know what country they belong to really. this area that che chose to start his operation, but the people there were surviving. they were very suspicious of him

and they gave him virtually no support. there were a pollution just fell on deaf ears to a certain extent raids the u.s. of so we write. there are a lot of good points there. one is he picked the wrong area of the country to go to. this was an isolated area with indians who spoke a different dialect so when che was there trying to recruit people for the revolution, his theory is you have a haven in arra area and you recruit. he would go into towns and give speeches and there would be silenced because they didn't understand a word he said. seriously he spoke a different dialect altogether. also it was a sparsely populated area and he picked another part of the country near the copper and tin mines where they were unions and students it may have been different. there was unrest in bolivia in 1967 but he picked an area --

i'm trying to think in the united states where the equivalent would be. maybe like the mojave desert. it was just isolated and there weren't very many people there. they were suspicious and he also miscalculated about one thing. bolivia -- he went to bolivia in part because it naiburg five other countries and he thought he could spread revolution to those countries but he also went to bolivia because he thought they had the weakest military and south america which they did but he also thought people would be receptive to the revolutionary ideas. the problem was that bolivia underwent a revolution in 1952 which a right's, land rights to indians which gave rights to minors to stay in the military in 1952 after the revolution and it was as if che ignored what happened in bolivia. you are absolutelabsolutel y right about the people. there was no support.

in fact worse the very and an almost from the very beginning che was more fugitive than a guerilla. everywhere he went the people he was trying to help went to the army. and they tracked him down so it was like an episode of america's most wanted. truly, wherever he went into the village and he even notes that in his diaries. che was a prolific writer and he has a very clear concise hemingwayesque style so if you believe -- read his diaries he says companies being sarcastic sometimes but when into this village and i know they probably have the police right now. while jay was great at promoting revolution and how-to books on revolution when you look at his record as a military leader comcast my conclusion is he was a total failure.

[inaudible] >> he now lives in paris and he has written a lot about it. he seems to great agree. there are reasons to believe that could have been the case. i'm no authority like you are but it could've been the case that he traveled around the world. he was neither with the soviets nor the chinese. castro was -- to the soviet union and the other communist leaders. when he returned from the worldwide trip he was lost. castro saw him at the airport and nothing else was known.

>> che was like that pain brother. he off the soviet union. one of the last speech is che makes is in algeria a public speech where he's accusing the soviet union of being better than dogs in the united states. those were his words. and yeah che was a loose canon. he was a celebrity. he was an icon that castro was behind the mission and gave his blessing to the congo nation in bolivia. in fact there were photos. if you go on line you can see them. photos -- he couldn't go in with his scraggly beared. he went in as a businessman. each shave part of his having gained a lot of weight. he was wearing a suit and tied and there was a photo of him.

he looked like a middle-aged businessman but there's another photo which i wish we would have had in the book were castro sees che dress like that and they're laughing and smoking cigars. i think if castro was really worried and wasn't behind this mission i don't think they would have been as collegial to each other. sometimes the photo does say a thousand words. >> go ahead. >> could you interviewed -- two-part question. did you enter any -- interview anyone from the cia and the second part did you do any research on the testimony and what relevance there an interrogation played in pinpointing where the guerrillas were? >> bustos and ray were important. bustos and the brave particularly debray when he was

captured, he was a french philosopher, a real left philosopher who wanted to be a guerilla and hooked up with che and decided he didn't want to be a guerilla anymore and walked into a village and got arrested. when they arrested him he flipped fast. he got interrogated. at first he claimed that the cia saved him. i think he has backed off of that a little bit but at some point to make a long story short charles degaulle the president of france gets involved. the communists in france get involved. they'll write letters to release him and it was a big embarrassment and a lot of headache for the bolivians as well as the americans. i think that leads to the ending with che. if you think you've got it bad with debray getting arrested you have shade now. how do you handle that lacks and

we talked to some of the bolivians about this. there wasn't a prison there. they had him but they didn't have a person that could hold che let alone dupree said there was also a fear that the cubans were, and take him. that testimony and that arrest i think leads you later to the way that che was treated. [inaudible] >> they were part of the cachet that he immediately latches onto when he gets there and he's able to piece it together. and i know there's a new look and i haven't seen it yet. as for the other guys in the cia we had a lot of documentation we talk to felix. trying to track down -- we didn't really do that. we really try to keep a soda straw view and so we branched

out as much as we could tour as much as we needed that really the focus was on what felix and the stoffo were seeing. [inaudible] >> we didn't really get into that. >> after i think 45 years he broke his silence and he wrote his memoirs and in their he downplays that his photos had anything to do with che's capture. clearly those photos -- those drawings that he made once they had them the bolivian soldiers were able to distribute them all throughout the country. they had a better idea of who he was. it helped a lot. they told them slowly. there was a part of the beret

that did want to give away everything. but they told them generally where the safe house was and where they were hiding.immense and they came out slowly over to a period of a few months. a little bit longer than that because they don't start distributing those photos until august of 67. that is when the government starts. [inaudible] >> exactly and we have to remember it's not like it is today where you have cnn and everything is instant. what you did have were a lot of newspapers and international journalists from "the new york times" and the "washington post" and newspapers from all over the world. it became a nightmare for the libyans and kevin raise the point, they didn't have -- in bolivia.

also the prisons were more like home arrests. they didn't really have that structure they are. after they captured che the decision was made quickly what to do because they didn't want to have to go through that pain anymore. >> when they finally capture and business and they make leads back to my question where was pappy shelton? what was he carrying and what was he doing in those final hours and did he have any operational control? pappy stuck to the mission. i know over the years there have been rumors that the green berets were out there in a played a role in che's death. they were back in loss per on to training different bolivians.

there was an infantry unit that came in after the rangers and they were doing that training so pappy didn't know anything about where the rangers were or what they were doing. he knew they were out there hunting for che but that decision about what to do with jay and the capture of che was strictly the bolivians. they knew what was going on but pappy shelton didn't play any role. [inaudible] [inaudible] anything that

indicates that. i have her dad and i was heard maybe there is a frog man that shot him. i don't know. at this point i have no -- i have got -- no one has ever told me. but i mean i will definitely check it more. we followed, in some respects we followed it that we talk to a lot of guys that were on the ground. at this point we are talking 1967. okay, that works. i'll take that. >> the current government on your book if they made any comments and did they see things differentdifferently? >> no, i wish they did though. that would be great. i've not heard anything from them. >> they are in charge now. >> they are and like we said it's a lot of history now focused on che and che's trail.

there is a huge bust and the museum for them. it's an interesting history mostly because of that fact. ultimately when you break it down he failed and yet did he? it's our giggle. i don't know. >> it was a revolution with doctors and the leftists revolution is a military endeavor. now it's more militant aid, doctors, knowledge. >> soft power. that's what you see in hezbollah and what these guys are doing too. it's good pr when you come in and it's the carrot and the stick. i don't know how close you follow iraq vets you have seen

israel strategy. the whole counterinsurgency fight can be fought on most fronts and i don't disagree with you. there is a real balance their and it will be interesting to see. i don't think we are going to see in the world war ii's anytime soon. in some ways this is the flight fight you will see in the next 10 years because special forces forces -- 2014 may be the end of the afghan war but not for afghans. it will be busy and they are busy now. i think what you are seeing is exactly the fight is going to be. i was with the civil affairs team in africa where they put together a clinic just south of somalia. i have been in haiti with cia guys after the quake. the fight now and someone is going to be we can bring you this stuff if you want to be friends and it's zero so we can train your guys to fight off the

guys that we both don't like. i think that's going to be a big part of the fight in the future especially for special forces unit. it's really used to fighting. if you talk to sf guys now they are combat oriented because they have spent a lot of time in afghanistan fighting. they will migrate back to what pappy shelton had and the guy kicking in doors has to go train in marksmanship. [inaudible] >> you can't kill your way --. >> right. >> i find it unusual that on the heels of the commitment that cuba made with russia into africa it would go almost like a keystone cop approach going into bolivia and south america which

is a greater prize at less of a cost. >> could you rephrase that and asked that question one more time? >> in other words they committed and to africa where logistically and monetarily it was not as much of the gain from a logistics standpoint. don't you find it unusual that castro sends, and he's not coming, that he sends his right hand person lets say as far as exporting revolution to the middle of south america almost like if there's a bunch of amateurs going in there. in other words it wasn't much of the commitment. don't you find that unusual that they would make such a blatant mistake in and miscalculation of all places in south america? >> no, you have to realize that at that point che was a celebrity and you're talking about hubris.

look at everything here you have gone through both during the cuban revolution and later in africa. he felt like he was untouchable at that point and that he wasn't going to die and he felt i really believe che felt he could succeed. his theory was right and his theory was simple, a small group going into a rural area to bring down an established government. that is what he did in africa where he was proved wrong and in bolivia where he was proved wrong for a number of different reasons. so if the point is to think that castro sent him to the congo and bolivia to fail i don't think so. i think che went to the congo and went to bolivia to succeed. i think he truly believed that he was going to win, that his theory was going to take hold and he was going to you now start one, many vietnam's in the

region. >> to what extent was there a failure in bolivia because of castro himself or castro support of che? >> that is a good question. clearly they believed that this was the right area to go into a. but one of the mistakes that che made in talking about logistics and where to go was he had alienated the bolivian communist party. the bolivian communist party was telling him we should be leading the revolution come and not you. bolivia should be leading the revolution and to copy really need to be up with the mines are and che again didn't think he was wrong. he said no, we are cubans and we know better. it's my theory and you're going

to follow me and if you don't goodbye. that was part of the problem in bolivia, he had no support from the bolivian, and his party. there was a real schism there. the planning for the bolivian shin was all cuba and che didn't consult the bolivian communist party who was basically giving him advice on where to go with just six wise. almost from the moment they got there this little farmhouse in this remote area he was discovered. they were doing troop movements. they were sending guys into rural villages with a ton of money to buy supplies and again the people that were out there were going straight to the military. so i think it was mostly che doing the planning. yes.

j.? in argentina. any other questions? one more question. >> would either of you care to fast-forward to where we are today and where we need to go and what we need to think about based on what we have seen and understood? [laughter] >> in general? let's go back to this idea. obviously from a military standpoint in the next 10 years i think you're going to see all branches of the military have to rethink the way that they fight. i think that you are seeing now lots of what they call -- well

we call them drones and the guys who operate them call them remotely piloted vehicles because they don't agree with the drone term. that is in going in the -- i think the navy launched the drone off of an aircraft carrier that is far better than what they can put a human in. it's always going to go back to the people. even though we will automate everything, so in 10 years from now what we learn from this you say the hardest one for last i will give you that. what do you think? >> they know what they are doing most of the time. i'm thinking are you willing to project what the policy needs to be? >> what's the policy? i mean here, simple policy terms

going forward. civilian leadership in the military need to understand the military better and when they tell them to do something they had better be very clear about what they want them to do and make sure they wanted to do it because the military is going to die trying to do it. no more of this mission creep or where you get wars that ch objectives depending on who the general is so there. i'm not even going to touch the rest of that. it's a good try though. it's a good try. but i think you're going to see see -- we have lots of questions. i'm going to -- this is terrible. we were joking about this being a presidential press conference on going to dodge this question and watch how we dodge it. i'm going to say this. i think as the american people we have to ask ourselves the tough questions about what our constitution looks like 10 years going forward in the modern time

and we as a people need to figure out that answer. there you go. [applause] >> it think it's safe to say that regnery publishing is probably the largest conservative publisher in america. marjory ross is the bus that regnery. what have you got coming up in the fall of 2013? sase writer you have it spliced up there. >> i'm so glad you asked. we are very excited about the books we have coming this fall. let me preview a few of the hot titles we have coming. the first one is ann coulter and i'm previewing the title that doesn't have a title because we

are keeping that under wraps for the moment. >> there were three. >> we can play a game. we can have a contest or make up a good title that goes with that but seriously we are excited about publishing ann coulter. as you probably know we published her first book that in 1998 high crimes for misdemeanors. it was the bestseller. she went off and did about six or eight looks with some unnamed new york publishers but now she is come home to regnery. we are very excited and we are bringing out her next big blockbuster political book in october. that is her first hit that we are looking for. we also have another book with newt gingrich former speaker of the house, a terrific read and rate author many times best-selling regular eight author and this book is particularly interesting because he's talking about unleashing

the potential of the future. it's actually a very optimistic exciting book. it looks at all of the ways that technology and medicine and science and transportation and energy are sort of bursting at the seams with innovation and entrepreneurship changing the way we live. he is contrasting that with the sort of old guard, what he calls the prison guards of the past, the special-interest, the lobbyist group's, the bureaucrats, the regulator's, the folks who have a vested interest in not allowing things to change because it threatens their power and their income and their position in our culture and our society. so he is telling the tale of an epic battle between the pioneers of progress who are inventing new things every minute of every day and the prison guards of the past who are trying to hold us

back. >> the book that we featured on our morning program the "washington journal" began as if log at "the washington times." >> your exact rewrite. emily gets her gun. this is emily miller's first book. we are excited to be publishing it. she is a traffic spokesperson for second amendment rights and for gun rights. she has a fabulous story herself to choose a young beautiful single one living in d.c.. she was the victim of a violent crime. she decided i live by myself in a metropolitan downtown location i don't feel safe. i'm going to try to get a gun. then she went through this odyssey to be a respectable law-abiding citizen to get a permit to get a gun and the experience led her to the realization that there is this huge power structure opposed to gun rights and that is not the

usual for a lot of folks that an experience she went through personally and it really converted her into a passionate advocate for second around -- for second amendment rights, for gun rights. heard personal experiences the launching pad. it it was a blog that she wrote very widely wet and very popular. now that's going to be the launching point for a book about all the mythology about gun control and gun rights and how hard it is to protect our second amendment rights. >> margie rows when can we expect to see emily miller's book? >> this book is coming out in september so she is writing it fast and we are trying to jump on the new cycle because obviously this state is rife with controversy and what is dominating a lot of the discussion in washington d.c. these days. >> out of publisher what does it take it get